Underneath my linoleum--a secret treasure! (question about subflooring)

December 9, 2006 12:02 PM

We are going to install about 200 sq. ft. of laminate flooring in our kitchen/dining area, which is 1/2 linoleum and 1/2 ugly blue carpet. Because the previous owners installed 1/4" subflooring before they put in the original vinyl, there is a height difference between the carpeted area and the vinyl floor area. Should I rip out the old subflooring to level it out, or add subflooring to the recessed area so everything is level? There is *really* old linoleum underneath the carpet and the subflooring.

Also, the existing subflooring has a thin white layer of dried adhesive. Would that have to come off?

Finally, is alt.rec.home.repair the best place to ask these questions? I'm afraid if I ask over there they're just going to get snippety over some perceived procedural error or my failure to use real wood floors, etc. etc.

posted by mecran01 to Home & Garden (12 answers total)

I think it depends on some factors. There will probably be a different cost attached to each option (remove the subflooring or level the rest of the area). Second, unless you really trust your contractor, it will be easy to end up with a leveled floor if you rip off the subflooring and work on the original linoleum (supposing that was level to begin with).

is alt.rec.home.repair the best place to ask these questions?
First rule of the Usenet: We don't talk about the Usenet
Second rule of the Usenet: We don't talk about the Usenet

But then again, go on and ask it - while Usenet jerks do exist, no one was born knowing everything. Maybe there's a alt.rec.home.repair.newbie?

posted by nkyad at 12:22 PM on December 9, 2006

My renovations guy (and I think most) do not rip out the old stuff because it tends to be difficult because of glue and so on. You can fill holes before putting in a new subfloor. Here's a good place that I've used in past, for tips:

now i don't know if this link works this time, but it might.
posted by Listener at 12:27 PM on December 9, 2006

The problem with adding layers of sub-flooring to "level" a kitchen floor is that, eventually (and usually pretty quickly), you start running out of vertical room to do this around cabinets and at doorways. Also, adding additional layers of material with joints in the middle of the floor sets up highly visible areas for expansion/contraction problems and crack issues. It can be done, but matching new material to old along a seam line in the highly visible middle of a floor area is not always so easy as it may first appear.

Every remodel situation is a series of judgement calls, but where flooring is supposed to be contiguous, you are better off to install it over contiguous sub-floor, too. So, my advice would be to pull up the current 1/4" sub-flooring, examine the actual flooring carefully, and after measuring for level, install all new subflooring, correcting for level and any problems with the structural floor as needed. Then, with a sound, smooth sub-floor in place, install the new laminate, troublefree.
posted by paulsc at 12:46 PM on December 9, 2006

You might want to avoid ripping up the old linoleum for health reasons. Asbestos is one of those no-BS, real environmental health concerns, and not just a micro-miniscule risk factor. All else being equal, choose the option where you keep the seal on the potential asbestos.
posted by Rumple at 12:47 PM on December 9, 2006

Are you doing the work yourself or using a contractor?

We are in an old house and there were many layers of flooring and we wanted to do the whole main floor with laminate, but there were different numbers of layers in the various areas. We tore it all up down to the plywood base. Then we added a layer of thick plywood to take out the squeaks in the floor (place a piece of plywood and keep driving screws into it until it doesn't squeak when you walk on it). I'm really glad we did it. For the tricky parts, we set the blade of a circular saw to a depth where it would go through the subfloor(s) but not the base plywood and used that to cut stuff up.

But that was a huge amount of work. It probably doubled or tripled the amount of time we spent on the job. I suspect that a contractor would put in the laminate much faster than we did, but wouldn't be as much faster with tearing stuff out -- so it would be a huge increase in the labour that you're being charged.
posted by winston at 1:13 PM on December 9, 2006

Response by poster: From reading the responses so far, I am somewhat torn. The area that would need subflooring added is in an open space, away from the cupboards, which would simplify things.
posted by mecran01 at 2:29 PM on December 9, 2006

I'd go for adding subfloor to the carrpeted area, for two reasons: the asbestos risk already mentioned is real and substantial, and it would be much less messy job. You should keep in mind that in addition to the new 1/4" subloor, you'll also need to add other material the thickness of the linoleum on the non carpeted part in order to raise it to grade.
posted by Neiltupper at 2:43 PM on December 9, 2006

Best answer: Are the two spaces completely contiguous, or is there a narrow space (i.e. between wall and counter) between them? In the seond case, I would consider not correcting height difference (if the laminate is installed perpendicular to the transition). You can get a transition molding called a "reducer" (Quickstyle makes them), made specifically to deal with these situations (although usually they would be used between to diffferent types of laminates or flooring). I have an adjoining living room/dining room, with a 1/4 inch difference between them and it's what I did.
posted by bluefrog at 3:12 PM on December 9, 2006

My anecdote: Whatever you do, don't keep the carpet underlay. I put in laminate flooring after ripping up the carpet. So save a bit of money, I kept the carpet underlay instead of getting hardwood underlay. I didn't realize until afterward they were different. My floor was very "soft" and bouncy. Most people liked it, but it wasn't quite the effect I was looking for.
posted by blue_beetle at 7:51 PM on December 9, 2006

Response by poster: Ooh, good tip. I was wondering about that.
posted by mecran01 at 8:45 PM on December 9, 2006

tedious as it may be, my suggestion would be to rip up both parts, and put a full new subfloor in place. you would then be assured of a sound subfloor, and would be "doing it right the first time" rather than taking shortcuts and having to deal with problems later, when it would be more difficult to correct problems. it also makes more economic sense ... if you are going through the trouble of new flooring, why install that over older materials and workmanship that may fail?

also, based on my experiences, matching floor heights is not as terribly simple as it may seem. an entire new subfloor will also insure levelness throughout.

good luck with your project!
posted by kuppajava at 11:38 AM on December 10, 2006

Response by poster: I finished laying the floor over the original linoleum on 1/2. It took me about 15 hours total, without too many major mistakes. I ended up learning quite a bit that wasn't in the instructional video, such as use a scrap piece of flooring with your pull bar or you can easily mar the original piece. Good times.
posted by mecran01 at 8:32 PM on January 5, 2007