Should I stay with my Clinically Depressed partner or take a chance on love?
November 8, 2006 11:36 AM Subscribe
Should I stay with my Clinically Depressed partner or take a chance on love?
My wife and I have been together for 10 years. She has Clinical Depression and some physical health problems (nothing extremely serious, but they do effect often effect our sex life.) She is on medication for her Depression, which helps her function. However, it is not a "cure" - it just makes her less depressed and depressed less often (which is normal for C.D.) Recently I met another woman, and yes, have fallen in love . . .
My wife is, in fact, fully aware of my other relationship. We have always had an open marriage. So while I have had several other sexual partners - I never expected to fall in love. I just didn't see it coming.
Now, my wife has been offered the career opportunity of a lifetime. She will be getting paid 5 times her current salary and moving to our "dream city." (We have no children and no plans for any.) She has said she will be making so much I would not have to work - of course I want to - but I could take time to find something I love instead of my current "dead end" job. And her contract is such that even if her job didn't work out for some reason we would be set for a few years.
Now, I love my wife deeply. And she does love me. But her illness means I am often incapable of making her happy, and this makes me unhappy. Over the past 10 years, I would estimate we have been truly happy about 25% of the time.
My new partner has shown me what it's like to love, live, AND actually have fun and be happy. She is beautiful, smart, talented, and a perfect match for me in so many ways. We have only known each other a few months, but we're not blind to the work it would take to make a long-term relationship successful. She is of modest means, as am I. We could get by OK, but we'd never (probably) be well-off. I don't care much about money. I'm nearly 40, so I think my priorities are set.
My wife knows I am in love and have a choice to make. She has remarked several times that she's never seen me happy in the way I've been over the last couple of months.
I have a few months to decide things. Has anyone had a successful long-term relationship with a Clinically Depressed partner? The past 10 years have been very hard - harder than it seems it should be. But we have overcome many things and stayed together. Yet I feel I will live with a lot of regret if I don't give the new relationship a chance. Even if it means giving up a lot of other things, my instinct is to follow my heart. Am I just being overly romantic?
My wife is, in fact, fully aware of my other relationship. We have always had an open marriage. So while I have had several other sexual partners - I never expected to fall in love. I just didn't see it coming.
Now, my wife has been offered the career opportunity of a lifetime. She will be getting paid 5 times her current salary and moving to our "dream city." (We have no children and no plans for any.) She has said she will be making so much I would not have to work - of course I want to - but I could take time to find something I love instead of my current "dead end" job. And her contract is such that even if her job didn't work out for some reason we would be set for a few years.
Now, I love my wife deeply. And she does love me. But her illness means I am often incapable of making her happy, and this makes me unhappy. Over the past 10 years, I would estimate we have been truly happy about 25% of the time.
My new partner has shown me what it's like to love, live, AND actually have fun and be happy. She is beautiful, smart, talented, and a perfect match for me in so many ways. We have only known each other a few months, but we're not blind to the work it would take to make a long-term relationship successful. She is of modest means, as am I. We could get by OK, but we'd never (probably) be well-off. I don't care much about money. I'm nearly 40, so I think my priorities are set.
My wife knows I am in love and have a choice to make. She has remarked several times that she's never seen me happy in the way I've been over the last couple of months.
I have a few months to decide things. Has anyone had a successful long-term relationship with a Clinically Depressed partner? The past 10 years have been very hard - harder than it seems it should be. But we have overcome many things and stayed together. Yet I feel I will live with a lot of regret if I don't give the new relationship a chance. Even if it means giving up a lot of other things, my instinct is to follow my heart. Am I just being overly romantic?
You're dressing it up, because all our problems seem so much more complicated with every bit of information we have internalized about them, but the only thing you're really asking here is, "Should I marry for love or money?"
Answer that question, and you're on your way.
(Yes, I realize you're already married to one, newly minted with another; nevertheless.)
posted by headspace at 11:58 AM on November 8, 2006
Answer that question, and you're on your way.
(Yes, I realize you're already married to one, newly minted with another; nevertheless.)
posted by headspace at 11:58 AM on November 8, 2006
This is not a slam, but how can anyone on ask metafilter possibly give you any insights into this situation? Headspace has boiled your question down to its essence, and without knowing either of the people you are trying to choose between then we can only give you advice along the lines of: be happy 25 percent of the rest of your life but have money, or be happy 100? percent of your life and be middle class. Since "money isn't everything" I would go for the latter choice, but still I have no idea who these people are.
posted by pwally at 12:07 PM on November 8, 2006
posted by pwally at 12:07 PM on November 8, 2006
You should at least stick with her wife for a bit so she can make a ton of cash, and then if you decide to leave her she doesn't need to stress out over things for a while. It's the least you can do after leading her on for so long, right?
posted by shownomercy at 12:13 PM on November 8, 2006
posted by shownomercy at 12:13 PM on November 8, 2006
@ headspace: expect that you probably married for love with your current partner, seeing as how she is just coming into money. I don't think that you can simplify it like that.
I can't personally fathom the idea of an open marriage, so I can't possibly gauge what kind of commitment 'til death do us part' & 'in sickness and in health' (assuming that was part of your marriage vows) means in yourt case. But I think discerning the meaning of those phrases (or the vows you did make upon marrying your current partner) to yourself would get you more in line with your true feelings of the situation.
Oh, and if your current partner knows about this, why don't you ask her opinion?
posted by iurodivii at 12:14 PM on November 8, 2006
I can't personally fathom the idea of an open marriage, so I can't possibly gauge what kind of commitment 'til death do us part' & 'in sickness and in health' (assuming that was part of your marriage vows) means in yourt case. But I think discerning the meaning of those phrases (or the vows you did make upon marrying your current partner) to yourself would get you more in line with your true feelings of the situation.
Oh, and if your current partner knows about this, why don't you ask her opinion?
posted by iurodivii at 12:14 PM on November 8, 2006
Give me a break. Clinical depression IS treatable. There are tons of different meds out there, and there are other strategies such as exercise and careful eating and sleep habits...
If I were your wife I would leave YOU. Why be with a man who is in love with someone else, especially when one would have the resources to have a nice life by oneself? And who knows, maybe her depression would be a lot more treatable without certain "psychosocial stresses..."
As to the love or money question-what I call "twitterpation" does NOT last. After you have been with anyone a certain amount of time, the novelty wears off and the flaws stick out.
Full disclosure: I'm bipolar. In a longterm marriage.
Which works because we make it so.
posted by konolia at 12:18 PM on November 8, 2006
If I were your wife I would leave YOU. Why be with a man who is in love with someone else, especially when one would have the resources to have a nice life by oneself? And who knows, maybe her depression would be a lot more treatable without certain "psychosocial stresses..."
As to the love or money question-what I call "twitterpation" does NOT last. After you have been with anyone a certain amount of time, the novelty wears off and the flaws stick out.
Full disclosure: I'm bipolar. In a longterm marriage.
Which works because we make it so.
posted by konolia at 12:18 PM on November 8, 2006
The way the question is worded does make it sound like you're interested in staying with your wife only so that you could be financially comfortable. People have been in successful relationships with clinically depressed people, but whether you want that or not is up to you. Sounds as though you don't.
posted by smich at 12:22 PM on November 8, 2006
posted by smich at 12:22 PM on November 8, 2006
anon....
Love is a process, not an event.
Your new love and old one differ by where you are in the process.
Eventually, you will get over the infatuation and your willingness to overlook the new love's faults and peculiarities. Chances are in a year or five, she'll have some critical failing that will interfere with your happiness.
My take on this is that the truly remarkable thing about your current mate is that she's OK with the open marriage concept. Odds are that the new one isn't.
Long term, your old mate seems like a better bet... you'll have the remarkable freedom to experience infatuation and new love outside marriage, and the stability,friendship and economic health of marriage. You'll also have the benefit of knowing it's a conscious choice... not one made on dreams, emotions, and hope during the intoxication of infatuation.
Repeat... having a mate with a positive attitude towards open marriage is rare and worth preserving.
You have more alternatives than the two you are presenting, as well. If it's an open marriage, she should be OK with a variety of scenarios that get your collective goals realized. Be creative.
Also, as iurodivii suggests, an open marriage ought to easily accomodate an open discussion about these issues and you are most likely to resolve the questions there, and not on AskMeFi.
Good luck!
posted by FauxScot at 12:48 PM on November 8, 2006
Love is a process, not an event.
Your new love and old one differ by where you are in the process.
Eventually, you will get over the infatuation and your willingness to overlook the new love's faults and peculiarities. Chances are in a year or five, she'll have some critical failing that will interfere with your happiness.
My take on this is that the truly remarkable thing about your current mate is that she's OK with the open marriage concept. Odds are that the new one isn't.
Long term, your old mate seems like a better bet... you'll have the remarkable freedom to experience infatuation and new love outside marriage, and the stability,friendship and economic health of marriage. You'll also have the benefit of knowing it's a conscious choice... not one made on dreams, emotions, and hope during the intoxication of infatuation.
Repeat... having a mate with a positive attitude towards open marriage is rare and worth preserving.
You have more alternatives than the two you are presenting, as well. If it's an open marriage, she should be OK with a variety of scenarios that get your collective goals realized. Be creative.
Also, as iurodivii suggests, an open marriage ought to easily accomodate an open discussion about these issues and you are most likely to resolve the questions there, and not on AskMeFi.
Good luck!
posted by FauxScot at 12:48 PM on November 8, 2006
Tough choice. How does your wife see it? Is this going to crush her or does she see it as an opportunity to regroup and maybe find someone who doesn't feel like she's dragging them down? What kind of support systems does she have in the new place? I struggle with depression too and sometimes this would be a miserable situation and at others I'd be chantimg "closes a door, opens a window, closes a door, opens a window", and seeing it as a dandy adventure. That's me though and my relationships and I'm doing well right now.
Also, what if the new person is hit with depression? Not as unlikely as it might sound, we often keep choosing the same qualities in our mates over and over again. Will it be better or worse? Maybe you should make a pro and con list, include the money, include the dream city, it's not all about the starry eyed type of love.
Definitely see what your wife is thinking, maybe see if you can find a counseler to help you both. Identify what the issues really are. As was said before: I don't know either of you, find someone who does.
posted by BoscosMom at 12:54 PM on November 8, 2006
Also, what if the new person is hit with depression? Not as unlikely as it might sound, we often keep choosing the same qualities in our mates over and over again. Will it be better or worse? Maybe you should make a pro and con list, include the money, include the dream city, it's not all about the starry eyed type of love.
Definitely see what your wife is thinking, maybe see if you can find a counseler to help you both. Identify what the issues really are. As was said before: I don't know either of you, find someone who does.
posted by BoscosMom at 12:54 PM on November 8, 2006
Open marriage, baloney. Look up the word commitment. You should become a man. Stop with the "pity-party" already. Give your wife a break and divorce her. You don't even know what love is, I don't think. I just know that she will get over you in a short time. You want it both ways and that can't happen.
posted by JayRwv at 1:16 PM on November 8, 2006
posted by JayRwv at 1:16 PM on November 8, 2006
OK, I should add a little more info. I am not trying to choose between love and money. I love both women, and both situations are financially comfortable enough for me. I guess I should have pointed out that my wife's opportunity is the culmination of a lot of hard work on both our parts during which we have suffered years and years of financial hardship.
have you always known that your wife suffered from this
I did know when we met, but didn't fully understand what Clinical Depression was or meant. It's difficult to understand until you have lived with someone who has it.
Give me a break. Clinical depression IS treatable. There are tons of different meds out there, and there are other strategies such as exercise and careful eating and sleep habits..
While this is true, my wife has the worst eating habits and exercise habits of anyone I have ever met. This contributes to her physical problems, and in turn severely damages/limits our sex life. Any attempt to ask her about or try to help her with these behaviors is met with a lot of hostility - and frankly after 10 years, I've about given up on that fight.
By the way - the open marriage was her idea, not mine. She took a lover soon after we married, I didn't for several years. However, it has worked for us since her physical problems mean there are stretches of several months where she cannot have sex.
How does your wife see it?
She has expressed the opinion that she doesn't really care one way or the other. She says she is focused on herself - and she would like me to come along - but if I don't it doesn't make a big difference to her.
I should point out also that during her worst bouts of Depression, she becomes very withdrawn, wants to be totally alone, usually tries to push me away, and talks of "starting over" She often says she is a terrible wife, and she doesn't understand why I - or anyone else - would want to stay with her.
Also, what if the new person is hit with depression?
Actually, since my marriage is my second long-term relationship with someone who sufferers a mental illness, we have discussed this. She has had problems like anyone, but has gone through a few years of therapy in the not-too-distant past and is as mentally healthy and stable as anyone could hope.
posted by USMale38 at 1:21 PM on November 8, 2006
have you always known that your wife suffered from this
I did know when we met, but didn't fully understand what Clinical Depression was or meant. It's difficult to understand until you have lived with someone who has it.
Give me a break. Clinical depression IS treatable. There are tons of different meds out there, and there are other strategies such as exercise and careful eating and sleep habits..
While this is true, my wife has the worst eating habits and exercise habits of anyone I have ever met. This contributes to her physical problems, and in turn severely damages/limits our sex life. Any attempt to ask her about or try to help her with these behaviors is met with a lot of hostility - and frankly after 10 years, I've about given up on that fight.
By the way - the open marriage was her idea, not mine. She took a lover soon after we married, I didn't for several years. However, it has worked for us since her physical problems mean there are stretches of several months where she cannot have sex.
How does your wife see it?
She has expressed the opinion that she doesn't really care one way or the other. She says she is focused on herself - and she would like me to come along - but if I don't it doesn't make a big difference to her.
I should point out also that during her worst bouts of Depression, she becomes very withdrawn, wants to be totally alone, usually tries to push me away, and talks of "starting over" She often says she is a terrible wife, and she doesn't understand why I - or anyone else - would want to stay with her.
Also, what if the new person is hit with depression?
Actually, since my marriage is my second long-term relationship with someone who sufferers a mental illness, we have discussed this. She has had problems like anyone, but has gone through a few years of therapy in the not-too-distant past and is as mentally healthy and stable as anyone could hope.
posted by USMale38 at 1:21 PM on November 8, 2006
For the love of god get a divorce.
posted by myeviltwin at 1:34 PM on November 8, 2006
posted by myeviltwin at 1:34 PM on November 8, 2006
Depression is treatable. The comfort of knowing you are truly with the person you are meant to be with outlasts most things, even money.
So is it that your wife TREATED for depression is the person you are meant to be with, or the new love?
PS. new love doesn't stay new forever.
posted by irisell at 1:43 PM on November 8, 2006
So is it that your wife TREATED for depression is the person you are meant to be with, or the new love?
PS. new love doesn't stay new forever.
posted by irisell at 1:43 PM on November 8, 2006
I think that you should not leave your wife for this new woman.
I think you should leave your wife if you are unhappy and no longer wish to be with her.
Go on to be with the new woman, if that is what you then want. But don't have expectations for it to be your next "forever". That way you know that if you end up single after all the turmoil, you still did the best thing about your first relationship.
Does that make sense?
posted by loiseau at 2:14 PM on November 8, 2006
I think you should leave your wife if you are unhappy and no longer wish to be with her.
Go on to be with the new woman, if that is what you then want. But don't have expectations for it to be your next "forever". That way you know that if you end up single after all the turmoil, you still did the best thing about your first relationship.
Does that make sense?
posted by loiseau at 2:14 PM on November 8, 2006
OK. I guess what I'm saying is that this shouldn't be a decision between two women. That's just demeaning to them both. Make the decision about your current relationship independent of your future prospects.
posted by loiseau at 2:21 PM on November 8, 2006
posted by loiseau at 2:21 PM on November 8, 2006
While this is true, my wife has the worst eating habits and exercise habits of anyone I have ever met. This contributes to her physical problems, and in turn severely damages/limits our sex life. Any attempt to ask her about or try to help her with these behaviors is met with a lot of hostility - and frankly after 10 years, I've about given up on that fight.
I'd be hostile if my husband was prodding me about my weight, too.
Please tell me that's not what you meant.
posted by sian at 2:22 PM on November 8, 2006
I'd be hostile if my husband was prodding me about my weight, too.
Please tell me that's not what you meant.
posted by sian at 2:22 PM on November 8, 2006
I have no idea why your old relationship, or your new relationship works. Neither does anyone else except for the three of you. Thus the "Why ask metafilter" and the judgemental tongue clucking.
What I can tell you that, if I somehow magically found myself in your situation, I would get away, by myself and think through what I really wanted, versus what I thought the right, the logical or the societally accepted thing to do in this situation.
Do you honestly think of it as living in your dream city with money enough to find a career that excites you while spending 25% quality time with someone you care deeply about? Or do you think of it as leaving a woman you care about behind to stay with a woman who you care about but has pulled an emotional bait and switch on you with depression, through no fault of her own, and you can't resist the money or the guilt of leaving her when she's low?
Because -- emotionally, not logically -- if you'll resent your wife for moving you away, having depression, taking away your financial independence, you will be increasingly unhappy, even if you care deeply for your wife.
If, at some level, you'll hold it against the new girl that if you weren't with her, you'd live in your dream city, following a new career path, being with an independent woman who recognizes her faults and encourages you to take care of your own needs (career and romancewise) and knows you like no one else does (after 10 years of marriage), you will be ridiculously unhappy.
Don't use the new girl as an excuse to get out of a situation that you *should* be happy in but aren't.
It sounds like the strain of the career, the depression and even the open marriage have inspired some resentment. I'm sure this new girl is truly great, but this "fall in love" door wouldn't be open if you weren't looking for an exit.
On preview, what loiseau said.
posted by Gucky at 2:37 PM on November 8, 2006
What I can tell you that, if I somehow magically found myself in your situation, I would get away, by myself and think through what I really wanted, versus what I thought the right, the logical or the societally accepted thing to do in this situation.
Do you honestly think of it as living in your dream city with money enough to find a career that excites you while spending 25% quality time with someone you care deeply about? Or do you think of it as leaving a woman you care about behind to stay with a woman who you care about but has pulled an emotional bait and switch on you with depression, through no fault of her own, and you can't resist the money or the guilt of leaving her when she's low?
Because -- emotionally, not logically -- if you'll resent your wife for moving you away, having depression, taking away your financial independence, you will be increasingly unhappy, even if you care deeply for your wife.
If, at some level, you'll hold it against the new girl that if you weren't with her, you'd live in your dream city, following a new career path, being with an independent woman who recognizes her faults and encourages you to take care of your own needs (career and romancewise) and knows you like no one else does (after 10 years of marriage), you will be ridiculously unhappy.
Don't use the new girl as an excuse to get out of a situation that you *should* be happy in but aren't.
It sounds like the strain of the career, the depression and even the open marriage have inspired some resentment. I'm sure this new girl is truly great, but this "fall in love" door wouldn't be open if you weren't looking for an exit.
On preview, what loiseau said.
posted by Gucky at 2:37 PM on November 8, 2006
I'd be hostile if my husband was prodding me about my weight, too.
Please tell me that's not what you meant.
Not at all. She is diabetic, and I have encouraged her to cut back on the dozen or so Cokes she drinks a day, to try eating something besides carbs, etc. Not for her weight, but because of the problems very high blood sugar causes (sores that won't heal, chronic infections, exhaustion, circulation problems - that sort of thing.)
posted by USMale38 at 2:47 PM on November 8, 2006
Please tell me that's not what you meant.
Not at all. She is diabetic, and I have encouraged her to cut back on the dozen or so Cokes she drinks a day, to try eating something besides carbs, etc. Not for her weight, but because of the problems very high blood sugar causes (sores that won't heal, chronic infections, exhaustion, circulation problems - that sort of thing.)
posted by USMale38 at 2:47 PM on November 8, 2006
For once, I agree 500% with konolia.
You made the vows, now keep them.
posted by digitalis at 3:02 PM on November 8, 2006
You made the vows, now keep them.
posted by digitalis at 3:02 PM on November 8, 2006
I never understood "open marriages". If you love someone so much, why would you want to even think about someone else? Or worse, why would you want to share her with someone else?
If you wouldn't want an open relationship with this new woman then I'd say there is something there worth chasing (as it doesn't appear to be there with your wife, otherwise it wouldn't be open).
posted by mr_silver at 3:13 PM on November 8, 2006
If you wouldn't want an open relationship with this new woman then I'd say there is something there worth chasing (as it doesn't appear to be there with your wife, otherwise it wouldn't be open).
posted by mr_silver at 3:13 PM on November 8, 2006
All I can say is that jumping out of a long-term relationship and into another commited relationship has been the stuff of TV dramas for ages. Reason is, it rarely ends good for anyone involved.
You should probably get a divorce. You're obviously not happy, and from what it sounds like, your wife knows this and cannot be happy about it, no matter how much she might say she's supportive and okay with you being with other women. While many women can be supportive of physical lust with other women, mental infidelity is a deep-six move for most married women, I'd imagine.
On the other hand, your new relationship is probably not going to last either, especially if this is how you get into it.
You should take some time to find yourself and make yourself happy first. Don't commit to anyone, and get out of the commitment you're currently in.
posted by plaidrabbit at 3:37 PM on November 8, 2006
You should probably get a divorce. You're obviously not happy, and from what it sounds like, your wife knows this and cannot be happy about it, no matter how much she might say she's supportive and okay with you being with other women. While many women can be supportive of physical lust with other women, mental infidelity is a deep-six move for most married women, I'd imagine.
On the other hand, your new relationship is probably not going to last either, especially if this is how you get into it.
You should take some time to find yourself and make yourself happy first. Don't commit to anyone, and get out of the commitment you're currently in.
posted by plaidrabbit at 3:37 PM on November 8, 2006
This is a tough one, and it's important to know that this is not just tough for you. Suffering from CD, it's likely that your wife has made some sacrifices in her life, and that these issues for you are not just problematic for you, but for her as well.
From what I see, even without this new woman, you and your wife are not meeting each others needs. Her "focusing on herself" and not caring whether you come along or not doesn't speak to her depression. This speaks to the state of your marriage.
Often, people do not exit relationships because they don't have a plan for being single. It seems like you have one, even if it is to jump right back in the saddle. Does this new woman even need to factor into your decision? Isn't the writing on the wall without her?
Best of luck.
posted by littlelebowskiurbanachiever at 3:55 PM on November 8, 2006
From what I see, even without this new woman, you and your wife are not meeting each others needs. Her "focusing on herself" and not caring whether you come along or not doesn't speak to her depression. This speaks to the state of your marriage.
Often, people do not exit relationships because they don't have a plan for being single. It seems like you have one, even if it is to jump right back in the saddle. Does this new woman even need to factor into your decision? Isn't the writing on the wall without her?
Best of luck.
posted by littlelebowskiurbanachiever at 3:55 PM on November 8, 2006
I think that you need to just never read any of these answers. It really feels like posting this is an attempt to absolve yourself of guilt for leaving your wife. If you love your wife, stay. If you don't, give up.
You chose to allow your self enough space to see someone else. It was your choice to make that room to fall for someone else. Live with it or don't, but the decision is fully yours.
posted by slavlin at 3:56 PM on November 8, 2006 [1 favorite]
You chose to allow your self enough space to see someone else. It was your choice to make that room to fall for someone else. Live with it or don't, but the decision is fully yours.
posted by slavlin at 3:56 PM on November 8, 2006 [1 favorite]
i think you should divorce your wife based on her own behavior and lack of serious interest in being with you. if she's not prepared to take steps to improve your lives together (diet, implications for sex, etc.), and she is hostile when you raise this, then i think you are within your rights to leave.
i hope you do so, and that you are happy with your new partner.
posted by tabulem at 4:03 PM on November 8, 2006
i hope you do so, and that you are happy with your new partner.
posted by tabulem at 4:03 PM on November 8, 2006
I think you should leave. Maybe then she can find someone who really loves her and be in a committed relationship. She's not in love with you anymore if she doesn't want to have sex with you. She might as well find someone she does want to have sex with, which I bet would be easier with you out of the picture.
posted by onepapertiger at 4:30 PM on November 8, 2006
posted by onepapertiger at 4:30 PM on November 8, 2006
mr_silver writes "If you wouldn't want an open relationship with this new woman then I'd say there is something there worth chasing (as it doesn't appear to be there with your wife, otherwise it wouldn't be open)."
That is not necessarily true. Many poly people are deeply committed to more than one person.
That said, approximately 99% of all poly relationships I have seen or heard about are so dysfunctional they make my (nuclear, split) family look like Leave it to Beaver.
tabulem writes "if she's not prepared to take steps to improve your lives together (diet, implications for sex, etc.), and she is hostile when you raise this, then i think you are within your rights to leave."
Or she just needs better therapy and/or medication. It's entirely possible that she's not doing these things due to her CD. Example: isn't taking care of herself, because why bother? She's useless anyway. And evidence of that uselessness is how fat and ugly she is, and how she doesn't take care of herself. Which is because... lather, rinse, repeat.
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 4:39 PM on November 8, 2006
That is not necessarily true. Many poly people are deeply committed to more than one person.
That said, approximately 99% of all poly relationships I have seen or heard about are so dysfunctional they make my (nuclear, split) family look like Leave it to Beaver.
tabulem writes "if she's not prepared to take steps to improve your lives together (diet, implications for sex, etc.), and she is hostile when you raise this, then i think you are within your rights to leave."
Or she just needs better therapy and/or medication. It's entirely possible that she's not doing these things due to her CD. Example: isn't taking care of herself, because why bother? She's useless anyway. And evidence of that uselessness is how fat and ugly she is, and how she doesn't take care of herself. Which is because... lather, rinse, repeat.
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 4:39 PM on November 8, 2006
onepapertiger writes "She's not in love with you anymore if she doesn't want to have sex with you. "
Wow, what cave did you crawl out of? Sure, sex is a barometer in a relationship... but lack of sexual interest != lack of love. Especially if she has medical issues, double-especially if she's on medication for mental health issues.
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 4:40 PM on November 8, 2006 [1 favorite]
Wow, what cave did you crawl out of? Sure, sex is a barometer in a relationship... but lack of sexual interest != lack of love. Especially if she has medical issues, double-especially if she's on medication for mental health issues.
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 4:40 PM on November 8, 2006 [1 favorite]
My new partner has shown me what it's like to love, live, AND actually have fun and be happy. She is beautiful, smart, talented, and a perfect match for me in so many ways.
is redundant with
We have only known each other a few months
I think you need more time to make this decision. You are getting certain things you haven't gotten in a while (great sex, I assume) and your pent up desires are exploding in bliss at this moment. Sure, the grass is greener on the other side of the fence, but maybe only as far as the next rise in the prairie. You have a long and deep relationship with your wife which is hard to compare with a new infatuation, so give your new thing time to mature.
Your question also mixes love, happiness, and money all up and down all over the place.
I think you should begin all this by prioritizing love, money, and happiness in your life. Then look at your options and how they will impact each. Compare love with love and money with money and you will make a fair call, once you know what your priorities in life are. Mix them all together and you'll get so confused you start asking strangers for advice on the internet :)
posted by scarabic at 4:43 PM on November 8, 2006
is redundant with
We have only known each other a few months
I think you need more time to make this decision. You are getting certain things you haven't gotten in a while (great sex, I assume) and your pent up desires are exploding in bliss at this moment. Sure, the grass is greener on the other side of the fence, but maybe only as far as the next rise in the prairie. You have a long and deep relationship with your wife which is hard to compare with a new infatuation, so give your new thing time to mature.
Your question also mixes love, happiness, and money all up and down all over the place.
I think you should begin all this by prioritizing love, money, and happiness in your life. Then look at your options and how they will impact each. Compare love with love and money with money and you will make a fair call, once you know what your priorities in life are. Mix them all together and you'll get so confused you start asking strangers for advice on the internet :)
posted by scarabic at 4:43 PM on November 8, 2006
Just to clear up a few other points:
Our marriage has been troubled for a long time - long before I met the new girl. We had filed for Separation and had a lot of other problems. So I don't mean to imply I would be leaving her *just* because I met someone else. The thing is, I didn't really know before what a more romantic and empathetic type of love felt like. So my eyes have been opened - but it's only a mitigating factor.
tabulem hits it on the head, I think. There is a big problem in that my wife isn't willing to work on her health - if not for her own sake - then for mine. And it's complicated, because it's connected to the Depression. So it's not like she is being purely mean and selfish on purpose. But I am sort of at the point where I feel I can let her illness effect us both - or just move on.
onepapertiger: it's not that she doesn't want to have sex with me, it's that she is often physically incapable of having sex with anyone. Her health problems lead to chronic ongoing and recurrent yeast infections.
posted by USMale38 at 4:48 PM on November 8, 2006 [1 favorite]
Our marriage has been troubled for a long time - long before I met the new girl. We had filed for Separation and had a lot of other problems. So I don't mean to imply I would be leaving her *just* because I met someone else. The thing is, I didn't really know before what a more romantic and empathetic type of love felt like. So my eyes have been opened - but it's only a mitigating factor.
tabulem hits it on the head, I think. There is a big problem in that my wife isn't willing to work on her health - if not for her own sake - then for mine. And it's complicated, because it's connected to the Depression. So it's not like she is being purely mean and selfish on purpose. But I am sort of at the point where I feel I can let her illness effect us both - or just move on.
onepapertiger: it's not that she doesn't want to have sex with me, it's that she is often physically incapable of having sex with anyone. Her health problems lead to chronic ongoing and recurrent yeast infections.
posted by USMale38 at 4:48 PM on November 8, 2006 [1 favorite]
dirtynumbangelboy: thanks for your comment. It sounds like you have lived around someone with Depression before - and it offerered a lot of insight.
posted by USMale38 at 4:55 PM on November 8, 2006
posted by USMale38 at 4:55 PM on November 8, 2006
I disagree that you are choosing between love or money. Sounds like you can have it both ways. Divorce your wife, collect alimony and have a loving relationship. It sounds to me like your real issue is guilt in dumping your wife after you have gone through so much together and she has all these physical and mental problems. Only you can decide if you can live with that decision.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 5:09 PM on November 8, 2006
posted by JohnnyGunn at 5:09 PM on November 8, 2006
As a woman with pretty severe clinical depression, I just have to say that my knee-jerk reaction to what you've said so far is that you're one of the people that hold the belief that depressed people are somehow broken or sick. While this might not be true, it certainly is how it comes across. Something that might help you: quit calling it or even thinking of it as an "illness" or a "disease"; you make it sound as though people with depression are somehow dirty. Rather, depression is nothing more or less than a condition, albeit one that is expressed mentally/emotionally.
Now beyond that, here's my big question: what have you done to try and fix things with your wife? Because so far it sounds like you've just been writing everything off as a result of her depression. You've nagged her to eat better? Whoop-de-doo. If I were her I would divorce you. The way you talk about all these problems, pinning them all on the depression, you are in a sense blaming everything on your wife, since she has the depression--and it sounds like she has enough trouble with self-blame already. No wonder she's depressed.
You need to wake up and realize that by marrying your wife, you accepted her as she was--depression and all. And now, suddenly, you're this horrible victim of depression, even though you're not even the one that has it. And now also here's this new woman, who doesn't have depression, who's beautiful and smart and funny and loving and talented and wonderful (and you sure make it sound like your wife has none of these qualities purely because she's depressed).
Also, what's with asking about successful relationships with depressed people? I could change what you said into "Is it just me or are depressed people completely unloveable and not even worth trying with?" and you would be asking the same thing. Christ, what an asshole. As a depressed person, every bit of your post offends me, and I don't even live with you and deal with you on a daily basis like your wife does. I can't imagine how much your attitude towards depression hurts her and exacerbates the depression itself.
My advice: get into therapy. Take a step back and look at just what is wrong with your relationship with your wife. Here's a clue in: depression isn't the root of all your issues, and continuing to blame your unhappiness on it is a coward's way of avoiding the real problems. Get the divorce, if you feel you should; and at this point I think your wife stands a better chance at dealing with her depression without you. Marry this other woman, if you think it's true love. But remember that this time, when things go wrong, you won't have a tidy little excuse like depression to blame it on.
An end note: as I said above, I have depression, and pretty severely, as does my mother and another 16% of the population. And you know what? I'm in a perfectly sound, happy relationship. So is my mother. So are a good majority of that 16%, I would bet. Depression is not your problem here. You and your attitude are.
posted by internet!Hannah at 5:44 PM on November 8, 2006 [3 favorites]
Now beyond that, here's my big question: what have you done to try and fix things with your wife? Because so far it sounds like you've just been writing everything off as a result of her depression. You've nagged her to eat better? Whoop-de-doo. If I were her I would divorce you. The way you talk about all these problems, pinning them all on the depression, you are in a sense blaming everything on your wife, since she has the depression--and it sounds like she has enough trouble with self-blame already. No wonder she's depressed.
You need to wake up and realize that by marrying your wife, you accepted her as she was--depression and all. And now, suddenly, you're this horrible victim of depression, even though you're not even the one that has it. And now also here's this new woman, who doesn't have depression, who's beautiful and smart and funny and loving and talented and wonderful (and you sure make it sound like your wife has none of these qualities purely because she's depressed).
Also, what's with asking about successful relationships with depressed people? I could change what you said into "Is it just me or are depressed people completely unloveable and not even worth trying with?" and you would be asking the same thing. Christ, what an asshole. As a depressed person, every bit of your post offends me, and I don't even live with you and deal with you on a daily basis like your wife does. I can't imagine how much your attitude towards depression hurts her and exacerbates the depression itself.
My advice: get into therapy. Take a step back and look at just what is wrong with your relationship with your wife. Here's a clue in: depression isn't the root of all your issues, and continuing to blame your unhappiness on it is a coward's way of avoiding the real problems. Get the divorce, if you feel you should; and at this point I think your wife stands a better chance at dealing with her depression without you. Marry this other woman, if you think it's true love. But remember that this time, when things go wrong, you won't have a tidy little excuse like depression to blame it on.
An end note: as I said above, I have depression, and pretty severely, as does my mother and another 16% of the population. And you know what? I'm in a perfectly sound, happy relationship. So is my mother. So are a good majority of that 16%, I would bet. Depression is not your problem here. You and your attitude are.
posted by internet!Hannah at 5:44 PM on November 8, 2006 [3 favorites]
I would boil it down this way: what kind of person do you want to be?
Over time, our moral decisions shape our character, just as our diet and exercise decisions shape our body. After you develop a habit of giving into to pizza and Oreo binges and skipping the gym, the choice to get up out of the La-Z-Boy and hit the weightroom becomes harder than it once was. Decisions develop into habits, habits become character, and your character is you. Plenty of folks turn 21 in great shape and are slobs by 40. They didn't intend for it to happen, and it sure wasn't part of some plan. They just slid into it step by step, and now being fit again would take a monumental effort. Possible, sure, but not as easy as if they had set good habits to begin with.
You married a woman (in your late 20's apparently--well old enough to make an informed decision) who has depression and you made a commentment to her. Someday down the road, you're either going to be the kind of man who lives up to his word and has come to understand the intrinsic rewards of living up to a vow even when it isn't easy, or the kind of man who hung in their for a while and then bailed out when someone more enticing came along. None of us are married to perfect people, and for all of us there is probably a better choice out in the world somewhere. The question you have to ask is whether you think marriage is a convenient arrangement intended to last for as long as you're enjoying it or a binding covenant that connects you to a flawed, sometimes frustrating human being for richer or poorer, for better or worse, to death do you part.
I'm married to a woman with bipolar disorder, and for me, the hard times are part of the journey. I'm occasionally presented with opportunities to get over my selfish impulses, learn patience in hard times, and, in general, grow up and daily become a man of my word. I'm not always a delight to live with either, so my wife has the same character-forming opportunities. That's part of the journey.
You're in an open marriage, which I can't honestly begin to understand, so maybe the idea of covenant and commitment never meant that much to you in the first place. I don't know. But I'm pretty sure that with this decision you're going to make a major move toward becoming a selfless person who honors his commitments, or becoming a selfish person who is less able to truly commit to someone else permanently than he was before. There's a reason second marriages fail at a higher rate than first marriages. There are also studies that indicate that people who are on the brink of divorce but stay together are happier five years after the crisis than people who divorce and marry someone else. So there are the pragmatic reasons to consider. But basically, I'd encourage you to take a long look at your values. Is honor and selflessness a higher virtue than pleasure-seeking for you, or is pursuit of the "good life" right now what you think life is about? Then make your choice accordingly.
posted by Pater Aletheias at 7:38 PM on November 8, 2006 [1 favorite]
Over time, our moral decisions shape our character, just as our diet and exercise decisions shape our body. After you develop a habit of giving into to pizza and Oreo binges and skipping the gym, the choice to get up out of the La-Z-Boy and hit the weightroom becomes harder than it once was. Decisions develop into habits, habits become character, and your character is you. Plenty of folks turn 21 in great shape and are slobs by 40. They didn't intend for it to happen, and it sure wasn't part of some plan. They just slid into it step by step, and now being fit again would take a monumental effort. Possible, sure, but not as easy as if they had set good habits to begin with.
You married a woman (in your late 20's apparently--well old enough to make an informed decision) who has depression and you made a commentment to her. Someday down the road, you're either going to be the kind of man who lives up to his word and has come to understand the intrinsic rewards of living up to a vow even when it isn't easy, or the kind of man who hung in their for a while and then bailed out when someone more enticing came along. None of us are married to perfect people, and for all of us there is probably a better choice out in the world somewhere. The question you have to ask is whether you think marriage is a convenient arrangement intended to last for as long as you're enjoying it or a binding covenant that connects you to a flawed, sometimes frustrating human being for richer or poorer, for better or worse, to death do you part.
I'm married to a woman with bipolar disorder, and for me, the hard times are part of the journey. I'm occasionally presented with opportunities to get over my selfish impulses, learn patience in hard times, and, in general, grow up and daily become a man of my word. I'm not always a delight to live with either, so my wife has the same character-forming opportunities. That's part of the journey.
You're in an open marriage, which I can't honestly begin to understand, so maybe the idea of covenant and commitment never meant that much to you in the first place. I don't know. But I'm pretty sure that with this decision you're going to make a major move toward becoming a selfless person who honors his commitments, or becoming a selfish person who is less able to truly commit to someone else permanently than he was before. There's a reason second marriages fail at a higher rate than first marriages. There are also studies that indicate that people who are on the brink of divorce but stay together are happier five years after the crisis than people who divorce and marry someone else. So there are the pragmatic reasons to consider. But basically, I'd encourage you to take a long look at your values. Is honor and selflessness a higher virtue than pleasure-seeking for you, or is pursuit of the "good life" right now what you think life is about? Then make your choice accordingly.
posted by Pater Aletheias at 7:38 PM on November 8, 2006 [1 favorite]
As a counterpoint to internet!Hannah's perspective: I have suffered through severe clinical depression myself, and I certainly agree that when I was in the thick of it, being in a relationship with me was not fun at all. I was withdrawn, so full of self-hatred and shame that I couldn't connect with people; the obvious pain I was in was very difficult for people who loved me to have to witness; I had so little strength or energy or enthusiasm that it was very difficult to share a life with me. 16% of the population may have experienced an episode of depression, but severe, long-term depression is an extraordinarily difficult and draining thing to have to live with, whether you are the sufferer or someone who loves them.
I also disagree with all the comments about depression being treatable. There are treatments for depression, and they work in most cases, but not every case. I've spent enough time in and out of mental health institutions, come into contact with enough chronic cases, that I know some deep and terrible depressions never really go away.
Still, it sounds like there are many different things impacting your decision to stay or go, the depression being only one. It sounds like both of you are very unhappy with your marriage as it is, so at the very least-- don't stay the same. If you decide to stick it out with her, both of you will have to make changes.
I can't tell you whether to run off with this other woman or not. It seems to me like your infatuation with her is related to your dissatisfaction with your marriage-- she is a way out, she is all the promise that hasn't been fulfilled in your life. Be aware that young relationships are difficult to evaluate; it's too easy to mistake them for what you want them to be.
And the best advice I can give you right now is to talk this over with a really competent therapist. Preferrably, you could bring your wife in, too. That way you can get the perspective of someone for whom you are a closer and more real human, a more appropriate perspective for a problem as life-defining and complex as this. The mish-mash of opinions you're getting here is not going to solve your problem or give you a clear direction, although it might point out some things to ponder.
posted by bookish at 7:43 PM on November 8, 2006 [1 favorite]
I also disagree with all the comments about depression being treatable. There are treatments for depression, and they work in most cases, but not every case. I've spent enough time in and out of mental health institutions, come into contact with enough chronic cases, that I know some deep and terrible depressions never really go away.
Still, it sounds like there are many different things impacting your decision to stay or go, the depression being only one. It sounds like both of you are very unhappy with your marriage as it is, so at the very least-- don't stay the same. If you decide to stick it out with her, both of you will have to make changes.
I can't tell you whether to run off with this other woman or not. It seems to me like your infatuation with her is related to your dissatisfaction with your marriage-- she is a way out, she is all the promise that hasn't been fulfilled in your life. Be aware that young relationships are difficult to evaluate; it's too easy to mistake them for what you want them to be.
And the best advice I can give you right now is to talk this over with a really competent therapist. Preferrably, you could bring your wife in, too. That way you can get the perspective of someone for whom you are a closer and more real human, a more appropriate perspective for a problem as life-defining and complex as this. The mish-mash of opinions you're getting here is not going to solve your problem or give you a clear direction, although it might point out some things to ponder.
posted by bookish at 7:43 PM on November 8, 2006 [1 favorite]
I want to say what no one else has - the CD and diabetes your wife is suffering from are likely very related. Clearly her depression is causing her to neglect her diabetes. And chronic, neglected diabetes is no joke. It may start with bad eating habits and chronic sores, but it will (as I'm sure you know) likely end in amputations, chronic hospitalizations, and death.
I don't think you are wrong to think twice to acting as a witness to a train wreck. Your wife is self destructing in front of you. Like others, I cannot fathom an open marriage, but my gut says that her insistence on it is part of a self-sabotage trend that she is struggling with.
As others have stated, you need to decide to stay or leave the marriage on its own terms, not because of your new love. So do it. Is this the life you want for yourself? Unlike others here, I don't think that marriage vows in this context should an unbreakable covenant. You are in a very difficult situation and you need to stop being complict in her illnesses regardless of whether you stay in the marriage or not.
As for you new love, is she comfortable being in a relationship with a married man? Is she comfortable being the lover?
posted by zia at 10:16 PM on November 8, 2006
I don't think you are wrong to think twice to acting as a witness to a train wreck. Your wife is self destructing in front of you. Like others, I cannot fathom an open marriage, but my gut says that her insistence on it is part of a self-sabotage trend that she is struggling with.
As others have stated, you need to decide to stay or leave the marriage on its own terms, not because of your new love. So do it. Is this the life you want for yourself? Unlike others here, I don't think that marriage vows in this context should an unbreakable covenant. You are in a very difficult situation and you need to stop being complict in her illnesses regardless of whether you stay in the marriage or not.
As for you new love, is she comfortable being in a relationship with a married man? Is she comfortable being the lover?
posted by zia at 10:16 PM on November 8, 2006
I don't think it's a coincidence that you fell in love right before the big change to your wife's career and the move to the "dream city." I'm guessing that subconsciously you chose to fall in love because it's a way out of a "dream" that deep down you know isn't your dream anymore.
So it seems that you want to leave, but you feel guilty because of the depression, so you turned to the internet to ask permission to leave. But instead of listening to us, listen to your wife:
"She has expressed the opinion that she doesn't really care one way or the other. She says she is focused on herself - and she would like me to come along - but if I don't it doesn't make a big difference to her."
Maybe you're taking this as self-defeating behavior on her part, and you're used to discounting her self-defeating behavior because you see it as a symptom of the depression. But that means you're taking the entire burden of choosing to stay with her onto yourself, and that's unfair. Trust your wife that she means what she says and go.
The timing you've chosen is perfect. This is the time for change in your wife's life, and all the positive things that are happening for her right now may make her better able to deal with the breakup of her marriage. Perhaps she can make a new start in a more positive direction in her new city. And as for you, have fun with the new woman, enjoy yourself, but realize as others have stated that this new thing may very well not last. But I think you know that already.
posted by hazyjane at 12:29 AM on November 9, 2006 [1 favorite]
So it seems that you want to leave, but you feel guilty because of the depression, so you turned to the internet to ask permission to leave. But instead of listening to us, listen to your wife:
"She has expressed the opinion that she doesn't really care one way or the other. She says she is focused on herself - and she would like me to come along - but if I don't it doesn't make a big difference to her."
Maybe you're taking this as self-defeating behavior on her part, and you're used to discounting her self-defeating behavior because you see it as a symptom of the depression. But that means you're taking the entire burden of choosing to stay with her onto yourself, and that's unfair. Trust your wife that she means what she says and go.
The timing you've chosen is perfect. This is the time for change in your wife's life, and all the positive things that are happening for her right now may make her better able to deal with the breakup of her marriage. Perhaps she can make a new start in a more positive direction in her new city. And as for you, have fun with the new woman, enjoy yourself, but realize as others have stated that this new thing may very well not last. But I think you know that already.
posted by hazyjane at 12:29 AM on November 9, 2006 [1 favorite]
What WCityMike said. If she doesn't care, why should you?
posted by callmejay at 11:43 AM on November 9, 2006
posted by callmejay at 11:43 AM on November 9, 2006
I should point out also that during her worst bouts of Depression, she becomes very withdrawn, wants to be totally alone, usually tries to push me away, and talks of "starting over" She often says she is a terrible wife, and she doesn't understand why I - or anyone else - would want to stay with her.
I was in a relationship that the above statement describes to a "T". I loved her but her own issues and refusal to deal with them, lead to her caring about no one but herself and that was only for the purpose of self-pity.
You shouldn't have to live in a relationship with someone who constantly talks about "starting over".
Lastly, I think the fact that she says she doesn't care if you go with her is VERY significant. I don't know you, but I can't imagine this being anything but one of two situations. Either one, she is lying so as to not burden your decision with guilt, or she simply and plainly does not love you. I realize that is a harsh thing to say, but having a partner whom you love permanently sever that relationship should invoke a much stronger reaction than indifference.
posted by JakeLL at 12:59 PM on November 9, 2006
I was in a relationship that the above statement describes to a "T". I loved her but her own issues and refusal to deal with them, lead to her caring about no one but herself and that was only for the purpose of self-pity.
You shouldn't have to live in a relationship with someone who constantly talks about "starting over".
Lastly, I think the fact that she says she doesn't care if you go with her is VERY significant. I don't know you, but I can't imagine this being anything but one of two situations. Either one, she is lying so as to not burden your decision with guilt, or she simply and plainly does not love you. I realize that is a harsh thing to say, but having a partner whom you love permanently sever that relationship should invoke a much stronger reaction than indifference.
posted by JakeLL at 12:59 PM on November 9, 2006
Maybe you are being too romantic. Considering your very interesting situation I can really understand your dilema. You may regret it if you don't go with your "heart" but will you regret not moving to the dream city? It's your dream city too, if I'm reading this correctly, and you would have a chance to find a job you really enjoy. That's a lot to give up. I'm going to weigh in on the side of your staying with your wife, living in the dream city with the dream job and letting the dream girl go. Ultimately, of course, it's your decision. Which ever you choose choose whole heartedly and let the other one go completly. Easier said than done, I know, but that's my personal opinion based on what you've told us. Oh, and if you stay with your wife, try to get her to go to a marriage counselor with you. Sheesh! Good luck.
posted by BoscosMom at 8:06 PM on November 9, 2006
posted by BoscosMom at 8:06 PM on November 9, 2006
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posted by Vanna79 at 11:55 AM on November 8, 2006