Doomed To Sit Out?

November 5, 2006 9:11 PM

I have a friend who is convinced, because of a combination of a breakdown of some sort and failing most of her freshman classes, that she has to sit out for something like seven years before she can go back to a University. Is this right? Is there some sort of grade forgiveness or a 'do over' button or something for getting a higher education? What's the deal? Is she forever screwed?
posted by geekhorde to Education (26 answers total)

Response by poster: Hive mind, please help my friend!
posted by geekhorde at 9:12 PM on November 5, 2006

I don't think we know enough to answer - was she expelled from school? Placed on academic probation? Is she attending school this academic year?
posted by mikeyk at 9:16 PM on November 5, 2006

Most schools will accept reenrollment from students who dropped out for medical or personal reasons. She really needs to contact her school specifically to find out their policies. But if she wants to go back to a different school, there's no reason whatsoever that she can't apply someplace new and try to start over.
posted by decathecting at 9:19 PM on November 5, 2006

7 years sounds pretty extreme. i failed out of college and my school's policy was that i had to sit out a semester before coming back. i'm sure it depends entirely on the policy of your friend's school.

also there's no reason why she couldn't enroll in a different institution and start over; if she just chose not to mention her previous university experience on her application for the new school, it wouldn't figure into the equation at all.
posted by sergeant sandwich at 9:19 PM on November 5, 2006

I'm a graduate student and worked as a TA for my first couple of years. A few years afterwards, I wa contacted by a student who wanted a grade retroactively altered, because he evidently had some kind of mental problem (I won't go into details, let it suffice to say that it was similar to "breakdown"). It was done. It was somewhat annoying from my perspective, because I was contacted years after the fact (as opposed to dealing with things while I can still remember who the student it). That said, universities want customers, and professors and TA's (usually) won't be hardasses unless there's a really compelling reason.

If your friend really wants to get back into college, tell her to contact the counseling services there and talk to them. She won't be the first student in history to break down and wash out.
posted by Humanzee at 9:22 PM on November 5, 2006

Response by poster: This is very helpful.

I don't know if she was expelled. This was a few years ago, and she no longer lives where she previously went to school. The town we both live in has a large university.

I'll show her this thread.
posted by geekhorde at 9:26 PM on November 5, 2006

It sounds like the student might be waiting for some period to elapse after which her GPA would start fresh; i.e., older grades would no longer be part of the calculation. Is that it?
posted by amtho at 9:26 PM on November 5, 2006

Well, at my college, if you fail a class, and retake it in another semester, your transcript gets updated, and there is no mention of ever having failed the class... so maybe she isn't totally screwed, depending on the college's policy.
posted by fvox13 at 9:35 PM on November 5, 2006

In the U.S. you start with a fresh GPA at each new university. So you can fail out of one school and graduate from another school with top honors. (I failed out of one school and was one-tenth of a grade point away from cum laude when I eventually graduated from next school.)

I don't see how one institution could keep her from enrolling at another.
posted by oddman at 9:40 PM on November 5, 2006

This is going to be highly specific to the school, so you probably won't get a good general answer (at least without mentioning the school). I failed most of my classes my freshman year. The normal course of events was one semester of this meant academic probation, and another semester of this meant that you had to take some time off. You were not kicked out of school, and I think the minimum time you had to take off was something like a year (certainly not even close to 7 years). Readmittance would be automatic after this, IIRC, but further academic probation for a certain amount of time (maybe even one semester) meant actually being kicked out. At this point, people would presumably either do something else, or try community college. In general, I highly doubt that she would have problems getting into a community college.

However, they were very willing to work with people. I didn't have to take any time off, and arranged to retake one of the classes I had failed during the summer -- passing this was enough to bring me out of academic probation. At this point I completely changed my attitude about school (and if this is any encouragement to your friend, I was able to completely pull myself up and get into a top grad program in my field right out of undergrad, though I did take five years to graduate). At my school you were able to retake classes up to 3 times (I think), and though the fail stays on a transcript, it no longer plays a role in the GPA. This I know varies by school, so your friend is going to have to talk to someone at her school, if she wants to go back there. Some schools the grade disappears, some schools you are stuck with the F no matter what. If she goes to a different school I have no idea if she'd even have to transfer the credits.

A medical issue (that is documented) also means that the normal rules probably won't apply to her.
posted by advil at 9:41 PM on November 5, 2006

I failed half my classes my freshman year, and was allowed to reapply for admission (mostly a formality) at the same university after a semester off where I had to fulfill certain requirements (go to another college, take 4 classes which the original univ. approved, get a B or better in each). After continued problems at the first university, I ended up leaving. I went to community college, got a 2-year degree, transferred to a 4 year college, and got my bachelors.

My issues were related to not being mature enough to be at college and manage my own time, and I had no issue with transferring. My first university was an Ivy League school, but I'm not sure how much effect that had. I think the school I eventually graduated from would have happily taken me, even if I had failed out of East Podunk U.

I agree with Humanzee - universities want customers.
posted by booksherpa at 9:44 PM on November 5, 2006

also there's no reason why she couldn't enroll in a different institution and start over; if she just chose not to mention her previous university experience on her application for the new school, it wouldn't figure into the equation at all.

Bad idea. Many college/university applications specifically ask something along the lines of "Have you ever been expelled, suspended or otherwise had to withdraw from an educational institution? If so, please describe the circumstances." I would recommend being honest with such a question; most higher-education types willing to be flexible & give someone a second chance, but if they find out that she misrepresented herself on her application, that could very well be grounds for expulsion. And getting expelled for that kind of dishonesty will make her a pariah if she ever wants to try again.
posted by Johnny Assay at 9:50 PM on November 5, 2006

I really don't think there's a seven-year rule; I've never heard of it and can't imagine why it would exist. If your friend wants to pursue higher education at this point in her life, she should definately go for it.

Last fall I ended up withdrawing from all my classes at my university because of mental health problems, and had I not withdrawn I would have flunked every one of them. Because I gave my school documentation of a medical problem-- and mental illness is a medical problem-- I was able to return the very next semester. My university had a student advocacy office that walked me through the whole process, and I would heartily recommend that your friend look for something similiar if she intends to reenter her old institution or if she needs anything from them.

The main thing that will be important as she goes through the application process is properly explaining what happened when she started college the first time and why she feels like she is ready, now, to be a student. Providing some sort of documentation from a counselor/psychiatrist/health provider will go a long ways. Colleges are not going to be looking to punish her for her past problems; they just want to make sure she's going to be able to handle school.

If your friend has difficulty getting in to a normal university, she might consider taking classes at a community college for a little bit and then transfering. That will give her a chance to ease back into the school thing, and also a good way to prove to other schools that she is a capable student.
posted by bookish at 9:57 PM on November 5, 2006

I have seen policies similar to what you describe at large state universities. At one school with which I am familiar, students who are asked to leave for academic reasons must wait five years before applying for readmission. But it generally takes more than one semester of bad grades-- especially if there is a valid medical or mental health reason behind them-- to get kicked out. Also, before someone at this school could get expelled, she would have to have been on academic probation, and violated the terms of that probation. My guess is that if your friend tries to re-enroll, she'll either be put on academic probation, or asked to take classes at another school to prove that she's recovered.

But it sounds like she's trying to attend a university other than the one she went to previously. In that case, she will have to report her past grades to the new university, but she may still be admitted-- again, especially if she has good explanations for her past failings.

Every school's policies are different. This kind of information will be in the school's student handbook/ bulletin/ course catalogue/ what have you. Get your hands on a copy (many schools put them online now) and see for yourself.
posted by chickletworks at 10:23 PM on November 5, 2006

I am a university professor, but I am not your university professor, and this is not professorial advice heh, suck on that, lawyers and doctors

I've never hear of a seven year rule or anything even close to it. Universities want your money. If there is anything remotely resembling a plausible reason, then chances are they will waive whatever rules they have, even if she didn't follow recommended procedures for having a nervous breakdown in her 1st year. If she did see a doctor of any kind there will be a record, and a note from such a person would go a long way to greasing the wheels. At my university (in Canada) you can re-take classes and, while both marks show on transcript, you can use the better one to get into upper division courses etc, and only the better one goes towards GPA.

But yes, the exact scenario is likely to be institution specific.

I second the advice to not go to a different institution, at least not without eyes open that the bad transcript will follow her and the university may well treat non-disclosure of previous attendances as academic misconduct. Though, if there is too much psychological baggage, say, with re-enrolling maybe a switch would be better, in which case, don't hide institution 1 from #2, and, indeed, talk to counsellors at Inst. 1 first and see if they can help that way too. Generally speaking, your friend is not the first student to bomb out and counsellors will be familiar with the procedures and be, in most cases, relatively non-judgemental, since they've seen it all.

Good luck!
posted by Rumple at 10:23 PM on November 5, 2006

At U of T, no matter how badly you do, a first term failure won't cause you to sit out. After 2-3^* failed terms, you have to sit out for 12 months.

^* There are complicated rules involving first and second probation and clearing probation and stuff.. The upshot is, failures which cause a student to miss a year don't necessarily have to come 2 in a row, but I suspect they normally do..
posted by Chuckles at 11:52 PM on November 5, 2006

Could be thinking of the seven-year period it takes most bad marks such as defaults to age off your credit report? (That's the most significant seven year figure I could see being on the mind of a college student.) In any case, I agree with the others that there's no such general rule in academia.
posted by allterrainbrain at 12:47 AM on November 6, 2006

The counselors at the admissions office will be able to interpret your friend's solution and tell her what her options are. She should not try to attend another college and hide it--that happens all the time and does not endear university staff. If she applies for financial aid, all the colleges that she has attended using financial aid will appear on her record, and that information will be shared with admissions.

If she has been on academic probation and then suspension a few times, and has not followed through with the university's recommended plan, she may have to sit out more than one semester, but usually the student only has to sit out one semester in order to be readmitted. As mentioned above, she probably will be re-admitted on probation until she increases her GPA. No big deal.

She can attend a community college before re-applying for admission at her original college. If she does this, she should be very careful (to the point of meeting with the admissions counselors) to be sure that she is retaking the classes that she failed so that the grades will be replaced. This is very complicated and if she does not take the exact class which substitutes for the failed class, she will not improve her grade.

Urge her to make an appointment with the admissions office. They see students in similar situations several times a day.
posted by aliksd at 3:46 AM on November 6, 2006

Things will be different depending on whether she was kicked out or whether she dropped out. It doesn't sound like she was in communication with any sort of student support services or with the department that deals with academic probation (a mistake, unfortunately, since the former can be a huge help in situations like this.) As people have said, leave can be taken in a few ways - it can be voluntary, it can be based on medical/mental problems, and it can be due to bad academic performance. One can return from all of these, though schools have different internal requirements (i.e., it would be harder if she was forced to leave due to academics.) I've never heard of a seven-year wait, though.

It may be worth it to take classes at a community college before reapplying [to the same or a different university], even if they aren't the classes she failed before. Each university will have different policies for getting credit for classes taken at other institutions, and they may not even accept community college classes for credit at all. However, taking classes elsewhere [and doing well in them] can help with the readmission process - it's an indication that the student has figured out how to handle whatever was causing problems before.

If she had a mental breakdown, did she start going to a therapist or doctor or something? Does she have a therapist now? If there's someone who can say "well, yeah, she was dealing with undiagnosed depression then, but we've got it under control now with therapy and/or medication," that could help with readmission as well.

Whether she wants to go back to the same University or to a new one, she needs to contact the old university. She needs to explain her situation, explain what she's done since, and ask for advice. If she's trying to attend the University in her present city, she needs to do the same. Her situation isn't unique - a lot of people have problems during their freshman year - and both universities will be willing to help her out.
posted by ubersturm at 5:18 AM on November 6, 2006

I've never heard of a 7 year rule. I agree with the folks above who said she should contact her school, and ask them.

I left college after 3 semesters with very poor grades and some fairly extreme personal issues. I returned to the same college 4.5 years later, with the support of several faculty. They were thrilled to have me back. I had to write an essay on what I'd done while I was out, and what made me think I'd do better now.

When I applied to grad school, I pointed to the gap, mentioned that my GPA was actually much higher if you took off those 3 semesters, and said I'd had some issues I had to work through before I could be successful as an undergrad. They had no problem with that logic, and, indeed, judged my app at the higher GPA.

Employers, on the rare occasion they asked about my college transcript, have been happy with the same explanation.

Out in the real world, employers and grad schools know that a lot of 18 year olds aren't quite ready for college. If your friend has good reason to think she would do better now, or even if she doesn't, she should contact the admissions department at her college. They'll tell her what she needs to do.
posted by QIbHom at 6:43 AM on November 6, 2006

Do NOT just apply somewhere without mentioning it. I once forgot to mention a community college class that I took while I was in high school, and the university I applied to dug it up. Because it lowered the GPA I'd stated by one tenth of a point, they cancelled my application and literally accused me of trying to lie my way into a university. And my appeal was rejected.
posted by hermitosis at 7:03 AM on November 6, 2006

As far as restart buttons go, they do exist (but have a longer than 7 year waiting period): Texas Fresh Start
posted by katemonster at 7:50 AM on November 6, 2006

Apparently, it varies, a lot. Your friend’s best bet is to get an appointment with an admissions counselor. There may be, in fact, a seven year rule, but there are probably many ways to work around it. My experience:

I had a 1.1 GPA my freshman year, at UNC Chapel Hill. I could have gone to summer school there and been re-admitted, but I didn’t want to. I lived in Charlotte, but UNC Charlotte told me something very similar to the seven-year rule—that’d I’d have to wait long enough for the bad grades to lapse before they’d admit me. The other option would be for me to get an AA at the local community college, at which point I could be admitted to UNC Charlotte.

However, someone (um, my mom, who taught at UNC Charlotte) got me in touch with an admissions counselor at UNC Charlotte, who looked at my very good high school grades and SAT scores, and worked out a deal—I still needed to go to the community college until my overall GPA was 2.0 or better, then they’d allow me to apply. I never really found out how “official” this deal was, but I did it, and it worked. Since I was now serious, it took me only two semesters.

After one semester at UNCC, though, I transferred to yet another college, a small, private one. They took all of my previous grades, including the freshman year ones, into account when computing my overall GPA.

Yup, four undergrad schools. And I still got into grad school, earning a PhD, all before I was 30. So it can work out.
posted by MrMoonPie at 8:00 AM on November 6, 2006

Maybe your friend (or her family) filed a bankruptcy and she is worried that will affect her standing for re-admission? In some cases, that carries a seven-year bad-credit period. She may be conflating issues out of anxiety and fear. Knowledge is power in this situation, and she might not be feeling brave enough to know the facts yet. Just a thought, based on the somewhat arbitrary timeframe ...
posted by thinkpiece at 8:42 AM on November 6, 2006

I've never heard of a seven year rule either. I very much doubt that one bad record would preclude admission to another university; although you would likely have to explain it - not avoid the subject. However, community college is an option - as mentioned above. Often times, if you have 2 years of community college, then you can transfer to a good 4 year school for your second two years with no questions asked about anything prior to your CC admission. This is often times the "clean slate" used for people who did very poorly in high-school, and would work for a bad start to college as well.
posted by heh3d at 9:37 AM on November 6, 2006

I'm a professor at a college with lots of older and transfer students. We often admit people who had a bad year but subsequently proved themselves on the job or at another school. I recommend that she take one or two classes at a community college before applying to a 4-year school. Earning A's in those classes will show that she is now able to be a good student.
posted by espertus at 6:49 PM on November 14, 2006