Apartment exit strategy
October 31, 2006 7:42 AM Subscribe
Need help plotting my apartment exit strategy.
Leaving my apartment, buying a condo, but it gets complicated and I could use some more eyes to assess my strategy.
I've been living at my current place for 2 years at $1350/month. When I first moved in 2 years ago, I temporarily stayed at a cheaper apartment ($900/month) downstairs, and paid my "first and last month's rent" + security deposit based on the cheaper rent.
A new landlord bought the building and eventually distributed new leases for us all to sign. I never did sign it and nobody seemed to care. I paid my rent every month and everyone was happy. (He probably *thinks* I signed it, but we never discussed it.) I assume my original last month's rent + security deposit transfered to him when he bought the building, but I don't know for sure. As we don't have a signed agreement between us, I might be out of luck if he decides to keep my money. (Anybody know?)
A month ago, he sent out the new leases, which prompted me to go house-hunting. The new lease is to be signed and returned with the next month's rent -- tomorrow. I'm making an offer on a condo tomorrow, so I definitely won't sign a year-long rental lease at the apartment. Trouble is, I gotta think it'll take at LEAST a month to close on the new place, esp. with the holiday season upon us. I feel like I need two more months (at least 45 days) in the current apartment.
So how can I do this? I've come up with 2 possible plans of action:
1. The slacker approach. Given the history of landlord slackness (plus my own), I could maybe just pay this coming month's rent, be quiet about the lease, and do my best to dodge him if he calls me on it. Then next month, pay him a partial rent (he should have my previous apartment's last month's rent) with a notice that I plan to leave. Could I hold out two months? I dunno.
2. The straight-up approach. Call him and explain that I need two more months, but I can't sign a year-long lease. My fear is that this will prompt him to action and he'll try to kick me out NOW. I think he's required to give me 30 days notice under law, but since I don't have a signed lease I don't know.
Thoughts?
FWIW, I'm not friends with the landlord or anything -- he's a bit of a dick, actually (just not to me cuz I pay on time) -- but I don't want to stiff him out of rent money if I'm staying there.
I think a lot of it depends on the status of my deposit + last month's rent. If he decides to screw me on that, I won't play nice -- e.g., fix nail holes in walls, replace fixtures I've swapped out, etc. Another wrinkle is that he has never seen the inside of my apartment, so he can't say what I did vs. what was the apt.'s original condition. Sorry for the rambliness... told ya this was complicated!
Leaving my apartment, buying a condo, but it gets complicated and I could use some more eyes to assess my strategy.
I've been living at my current place for 2 years at $1350/month. When I first moved in 2 years ago, I temporarily stayed at a cheaper apartment ($900/month) downstairs, and paid my "first and last month's rent" + security deposit based on the cheaper rent.
A new landlord bought the building and eventually distributed new leases for us all to sign. I never did sign it and nobody seemed to care. I paid my rent every month and everyone was happy. (He probably *thinks* I signed it, but we never discussed it.) I assume my original last month's rent + security deposit transfered to him when he bought the building, but I don't know for sure. As we don't have a signed agreement between us, I might be out of luck if he decides to keep my money. (Anybody know?)
A month ago, he sent out the new leases, which prompted me to go house-hunting. The new lease is to be signed and returned with the next month's rent -- tomorrow. I'm making an offer on a condo tomorrow, so I definitely won't sign a year-long rental lease at the apartment. Trouble is, I gotta think it'll take at LEAST a month to close on the new place, esp. with the holiday season upon us. I feel like I need two more months (at least 45 days) in the current apartment.
So how can I do this? I've come up with 2 possible plans of action:
1. The slacker approach. Given the history of landlord slackness (plus my own), I could maybe just pay this coming month's rent, be quiet about the lease, and do my best to dodge him if he calls me on it. Then next month, pay him a partial rent (he should have my previous apartment's last month's rent) with a notice that I plan to leave. Could I hold out two months? I dunno.
2. The straight-up approach. Call him and explain that I need two more months, but I can't sign a year-long lease. My fear is that this will prompt him to action and he'll try to kick me out NOW. I think he's required to give me 30 days notice under law, but since I don't have a signed lease I don't know.
Thoughts?
FWIW, I'm not friends with the landlord or anything -- he's a bit of a dick, actually (just not to me cuz I pay on time) -- but I don't want to stiff him out of rent money if I'm staying there.
I think a lot of it depends on the status of my deposit + last month's rent. If he decides to screw me on that, I won't play nice -- e.g., fix nail holes in walls, replace fixtures I've swapped out, etc. Another wrinkle is that he has never seen the inside of my apartment, so he can't say what I did vs. what was the apt.'s original condition. Sorry for the rambliness... told ya this was complicated!
Pay the rent without sending the lease. When he calls tell him that you are buying a place and cannot sign a year lease. You will agree to give him a full 30 days notice. At the 30 day notice, explain to him the 1st and last month rent thing and tell him you will schedule a walkthru to get your deposit back. Tell him that he can take the additional rent owed out of the deposit. Then, worse case, you are out about $500. At the walkthru, have him agree and put in writing whatever damage there may be. Then if he doesn't pay, you sue him in small claims court. Also take pictures at the walkthru.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 8:07 AM on October 31, 2006
posted by JohnnyGunn at 8:07 AM on October 31, 2006
I say slack it. I've been a pretty much ideal renter in several places, have fixed the nail holes and played it straight with landlords, but have never exited an apartment without deposit issues. We did the small-claims court thing, with only limited success. It was a hell of a lot of trouble. In retrospect, I wish we'd just not paid the last month's rent.
As far as house-buying timing--it took only 17 days from bidding to closing for our place, and the bid was put in on a Saturday. That's pretty much record time, though.
posted by MrMoonPie at 8:15 AM on October 31, 2006
As far as house-buying timing--it took only 17 days from bidding to closing for our place, and the bid was put in on a Saturday. That's pretty much record time, though.
posted by MrMoonPie at 8:15 AM on October 31, 2006
So, basically you DON'T have a signed lease and you haven't had one for a while? That may work to your advantage.
Even on a month-to-month term you are probably required to give notice (30 days?) before you move out. So, it's best to go a head and make the phone call today since the landlord has made an effort to get you to renew. I think the straight-up (but slightly obfuscated) approach will work best.
You've been on a month-to-month agreement for a while now so the landlord should allow you to continue. It's in his best interest after all to keep someone in the apartment paying rent - he looses money if it sits there empty.
So, call the landlord up and say, "You know this month-to-month thing is working out really well, especially considering that I may be moving at the end of November. How about I pay for October and then give 30 days notice (for Nov) and then I'm out?" You can be a little tricky if you want and say that you had certain verbal agreements with the previous landlord. That may give you even more leverage.
I wouldn't bring up the fact that your first and last month's rent and your deposit were all based on your $900 a month apartment. If you're lucky they don't have their paper work in order and won't be able to call you on it and you'll get out having saved $400+ on your last month's rent. Getting your deposit back will be a little more tricky... JohnnyGunn's suggestions above sound good.
Once you give notice the landlord will want to start showing your apartment, so unless you want to put with two months of interruptions make sure he knows you haven't officially given notice until Nov. 1st (this assuming you'll be there for another 60 days.)
Also... and this is just from my own experiences: keep notes on who you talk to and when and what they say. Landlords can be "forgetful" of over the phone agreements.
Alternatively you can sign the lease and hope that you can find someone to sublet it in December... I'd argue with the landlord before I did that though.
posted by wfrgms at 8:18 AM on October 31, 2006
Even on a month-to-month term you are probably required to give notice (30 days?) before you move out. So, it's best to go a head and make the phone call today since the landlord has made an effort to get you to renew. I think the straight-up (but slightly obfuscated) approach will work best.
You've been on a month-to-month agreement for a while now so the landlord should allow you to continue. It's in his best interest after all to keep someone in the apartment paying rent - he looses money if it sits there empty.
So, call the landlord up and say, "You know this month-to-month thing is working out really well, especially considering that I may be moving at the end of November. How about I pay for October and then give 30 days notice (for Nov) and then I'm out?" You can be a little tricky if you want and say that you had certain verbal agreements with the previous landlord. That may give you even more leverage.
I wouldn't bring up the fact that your first and last month's rent and your deposit were all based on your $900 a month apartment. If you're lucky they don't have their paper work in order and won't be able to call you on it and you'll get out having saved $400+ on your last month's rent. Getting your deposit back will be a little more tricky... JohnnyGunn's suggestions above sound good.
Once you give notice the landlord will want to start showing your apartment, so unless you want to put with two months of interruptions make sure he knows you haven't officially given notice until Nov. 1st (this assuming you'll be there for another 60 days.)
Also... and this is just from my own experiences: keep notes on who you talk to and when and what they say. Landlords can be "forgetful" of over the phone agreements.
Alternatively you can sign the lease and hope that you can find someone to sublet it in December... I'd argue with the landlord before I did that though.
posted by wfrgms at 8:18 AM on October 31, 2006
Response by poster: Not in my backyard: I never signed a lease with the current owner for the past year. The new lease is supposed to be signed tomorrow when I pay my monthly rent.
posted by LordSludge at 8:19 AM on October 31, 2006
posted by LordSludge at 8:19 AM on October 31, 2006
Definitely record all phone conversations with the landlord, assuming it's legal in your state. (For example, in my state as well as 30+ other states, recording requires one party consent, meaning only one of the parties communicating [i.e., you] needs to consent. Try Googling "one party consent" plus your state's name.)
posted by allterrainbrain at 8:33 AM on October 31, 2006
posted by allterrainbrain at 8:33 AM on October 31, 2006
You should talk to a local tenants' support organization about what are your rights and obligations in your juristiction. Around here, you'd have to give the landlord 60 days notice (even if you are moving out on the lease expiry date).
posted by winston at 8:35 AM on October 31, 2006
posted by winston at 8:35 AM on October 31, 2006
Response by poster: wfrgms: To be clear, I'm sure he *thinks* I have a signed annual lease with him, but I don't. I don't have ANY contract between him and me. There is no acknowledged "month-to-month" agreement -- just me payin da rent without ever having signed anything.
I agree with giving him 30 days notice, just out of courtesy, but do I have any legal protections at all should he decide to boot me immediately? I mean, is there a sort of default legal wrapper for such a situation?
And, yeah, since my pre-paid "last month" is only $900, and my rent is $1400, I could could keep quiet about that, then just not fix all the little damage, (potentially) lose the security deposit, and pretty much break even. Since he has zero documentation of the apartment's "before" condition -- I know this because he didn't have a key to the deadbolt -- I don't see how he could really sue me. Indeed, I don't have any documentation of the apt's condition either, and the carpet was pretty trashed by the previous owner(s), so I wouldn't be surprised if he tries to keep the security deposit.
posted by LordSludge at 8:39 AM on October 31, 2006
I agree with giving him 30 days notice, just out of courtesy, but do I have any legal protections at all should he decide to boot me immediately? I mean, is there a sort of default legal wrapper for such a situation?
And, yeah, since my pre-paid "last month" is only $900, and my rent is $1400, I could could keep quiet about that, then just not fix all the little damage, (potentially) lose the security deposit, and pretty much break even. Since he has zero documentation of the apartment's "before" condition -- I know this because he didn't have a key to the deadbolt -- I don't see how he could really sue me. Indeed, I don't have any documentation of the apt's condition either, and the carpet was pretty trashed by the previous owner(s), so I wouldn't be surprised if he tries to keep the security deposit.
posted by LordSludge at 8:39 AM on October 31, 2006
I don't know if this is true where you're at, but when I was in a similar situation I found that even though the original lease had expired and I had never signed a new one, the terms of the original lease still applied on a month-to-month basis. My landlord never changed during the process though, so I don't know what effect that might have. In any case, I'd pay the rent that's due this month without signing the lease. If the landlord doesn't ask about it, I'd wait and give him 30 days' notice at the beginning of next month. If he does ask, be straight with him and tell him you'd like to continue on a month-to-month basis for the next two months. The worst case scenario is that he gives you 30 days' notice. If that happens, do you have somewhere else to stay if you haven't closed on your condo?
posted by curie at 8:51 AM on October 31, 2006
posted by curie at 8:51 AM on October 31, 2006
Dunno about SC, but it's not uncommon for leases to automatically be considered month-to-month if the tenant stays past the time specified on the original lease. Meaning, you sign a one-year lease, and after that, you're month-to-month until you move out. Even when this is not specified in writing, it is a commonplace understanding that often does not warrant explicit acknowledgement.
Yes, there are legal protections keeping him from booting you out and throwing your stuff on the street. But they vary considerably from state to state.
Technically, when the rent goes up the renter is supposed to upgrade the amount of their deposit & last month's rent, too. In practice, a lot of landlords don't enforce this. (But they keep records.)
posted by desuetude at 8:53 AM on October 31, 2006
Yes, there are legal protections keeping him from booting you out and throwing your stuff on the street. But they vary considerably from state to state.
Technically, when the rent goes up the renter is supposed to upgrade the amount of their deposit & last month's rent, too. In practice, a lot of landlords don't enforce this. (But they keep records.)
posted by desuetude at 8:53 AM on October 31, 2006
I really don't know how South Carolina tenant law works. Here's a link I found that seems to cover SC. A quick check shows that it seems to link to SCBar.org, but all the links are broken so I'd recommend going directly to scbar.org. Was the *first* new lease with the new landlord delivered by registered mail? Or did it just show up in your mailbox? If there's no record of it being delivered, it seems that it would be very easy to say "Hrmm, I never got a new lease. As far as I'm concerned, I'm still covered by this old lease that I originally signed". Although if your new lease specified new payment details for your new landlord, that could put a wrinkle in the works a bit. Check your original lease to see what the terms were for going month to month once that lease expired. There's probably some mention of the amount of notice required there as well.
From peeking at that SCBar page (I searched for evictions), it seems as though if you're on a month to month lease (I think your old lease will cover this... even though it's not with the new landlord, I would presume that his failure to enforce the 1st new lease agreement means that he is stuck to abiding by your original lease), your landlord has to give 30 days notice to kick your butt out. This is all just guesswork though. Start searching through the tenant laws in your state to see what happens when the property changes hands.
My guess, though, is that when he bought the property, he also took over responsibility for the leases that were currently on that property. That's why he wanted to get new leases signed. Since you didn't sign, you are still covered by the old lease, and should be able to stay at least another month.
On preview: yikes, I got a bit rambly there. Sorry about that.
posted by antifuse at 9:13 AM on October 31, 2006
From peeking at that SCBar page (I searched for evictions), it seems as though if you're on a month to month lease (I think your old lease will cover this... even though it's not with the new landlord, I would presume that his failure to enforce the 1st new lease agreement means that he is stuck to abiding by your original lease), your landlord has to give 30 days notice to kick your butt out. This is all just guesswork though. Start searching through the tenant laws in your state to see what happens when the property changes hands.
My guess, though, is that when he bought the property, he also took over responsibility for the leases that were currently on that property. That's why he wanted to get new leases signed. Since you didn't sign, you are still covered by the old lease, and should be able to stay at least another month.
On preview: yikes, I got a bit rambly there. Sorry about that.
posted by antifuse at 9:13 AM on October 31, 2006
I'm with curie - even though you haven't signed a new lease (in a long time) the terms of your old lease still apply - so a lot of your answers (how much notice you have to give, requirements for getting your deposit back, etc) are in writing so you're protected.
Your new landlord has really screwed the pooch - why on earth would you buy a property (full of tenets) and not instantly set about reviewing their records and leases?
Granted your new landlord seems like a moron... but I'm sure there is something in the tenant law that says he can't evict you... nor would he want to when he is going to get at least another month's (Nov.) rent out of you. Remember, if your apartment is empty for even a single day your landlord is loosing money.
posted by wfrgms at 9:57 AM on October 31, 2006
Your new landlord has really screwed the pooch - why on earth would you buy a property (full of tenets) and not instantly set about reviewing their records and leases?
Granted your new landlord seems like a moron... but I'm sure there is something in the tenant law that says he can't evict you... nor would he want to when he is going to get at least another month's (Nov.) rent out of you. Remember, if your apartment is empty for even a single day your landlord is loosing money.
posted by wfrgms at 9:57 AM on October 31, 2006
What does the original lease say? 'Cause the ones I've seen in SC (OK, only three) all had a clause to make explicit a month-to-month rental once the term expired.
Also, the one of them that I actually signed also has an explicit clause about what happens in case of change in ownership.
posted by solotoro at 10:07 AM on October 31, 2006
Also, the one of them that I actually signed also has an explicit clause about what happens in case of change in ownership.
posted by solotoro at 10:07 AM on October 31, 2006
Response by poster: Thanks, all, for the feedback. I feel a bit more comfortable with this now. I'll dig back and see if I can find the original lease.
I dunno that the landlord is a morAn, per se; he had an awful lot on his plate with opening a restaurant and all. But, yeah, he let meslip slack thru the cracks...
Yeah, my ex has offered to let me stay with her if need be, which could lead to a whole new AskMe thread, heh!
posted by LordSludge at 10:29 AM on October 31, 2006
I dunno that the landlord is a morAn, per se; he had an awful lot on his plate with opening a restaurant and all. But, yeah, he let me
Yeah, my ex has offered to let me stay with her if need be, which could lead to a whole new AskMe thread, heh!
posted by LordSludge at 10:29 AM on October 31, 2006
It is my understanding (perhaps depending on your locaiton) that if you had a signed lease at one point, but let that lease expire without signing another, you would be considered in a month-to-month agreement (whether or not you've discussed this with your landlord). This happened with my last landlord (who was also a dick), so I gave him my 30 days, even though I only needed about 10, but didn't give him the keys until the 30th day. Luckily, he didn't have a key to my deadbolt (due to his stupidity - he changed the lock, but didn't keep a key for himself - I never made him a copy), so he couldn't get into the apartment until then. My little way of sticking it to him...
The terms of your lease should still apply, so you need to give him 30 days notice etc. Ask him to keep the last month's rent for those last 30 days of you being there and request your security deposit back based on a walkthrough. Even though they didn't see the apartment before you lived in it, they should be able to judge how much work they have to put into it before renting it again - I believe this will be the basis of whether or not you get any or all of your deposit back. If you feel that your landlord may claim that there's more work to be done than you think, take pictures of the apartment as soon as you've got everything out and it's been cleaned.
posted by youngergirl44 at 1:19 PM on October 31, 2006
The terms of your lease should still apply, so you need to give him 30 days notice etc. Ask him to keep the last month's rent for those last 30 days of you being there and request your security deposit back based on a walkthrough. Even though they didn't see the apartment before you lived in it, they should be able to judge how much work they have to put into it before renting it again - I believe this will be the basis of whether or not you get any or all of your deposit back. If you feel that your landlord may claim that there's more work to be done than you think, take pictures of the apartment as soon as you've got everything out and it's been cleaned.
posted by youngergirl44 at 1:19 PM on October 31, 2006
Response by poster: Well, I did sign a lease agreement with the previous landlord, but I didn't ever sign a lease with the current landlord. AFAIK, I have no legal agreement with the current landlord, and I don't think he even has a copy of that lease. I'll check the old lease, as it may indeed roll forward to the new owner -- even though he doesn't have a copy, haha!
Of course, I _expect_ that the last month's rent + security deposit that I paid to the previous landlord would roll forward to the current landlord, but I don't know whether that's legally the case, as I have no direct agreement with him.
Wish me luck; I'll let you know if something "interesting" (in the Chinese curse sense) happens.
posted by LordSludge at 2:24 PM on October 31, 2006
Of course, I _expect_ that the last month's rent + security deposit that I paid to the previous landlord would roll forward to the current landlord, but I don't know whether that's legally the case, as I have no direct agreement with him.
Wish me luck; I'll let you know if something "interesting" (in the Chinese curse sense) happens.
posted by LordSludge at 2:24 PM on October 31, 2006
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by Not in my backyard at 8:01 AM on October 31, 2006