Kate the Great on a Plate - Please Evaluate
September 4, 2006 10:58 PM Subscribe
While cleaning up my grandmother's attic, I came across a Russian medal which I'd like to know more about.
The front side has a bust of Catherine II with the words I tanslate as "B.M. Catherine II Empress and Sovereign of All-Russia" (Б.М.ЕКАТЕРИНА.II.IМПЕРАТ.И.САМОДЕРЖ.ВСЕРОСС"). It also has a small inscription at the bottom which probably reads "Timofej Ivanov" ("ТИМОФЕЙ ИВАНОВ"). Note that the "ф" is actually a Greek theta. Some of the letters in this inscription are a bit questionable, and we decided on that name when after trying several variations, we found that Timofej Ivanov was, in fact, a coin-maker operating at the time. However, it appears he usually signed his initials "Т.И." only.
The obverse side features a figure holding a cross and a woman in a dress holding out her hand over an altar with crossed swords on the side and and a lamp(?) on top. There are columns to the left. Some sort of sigil is in the center, surrounded by a wreath, and an angel carrying a crown hovers above. Around the edge is written "ЗА СПАСЕНIЕ ВЕ== И ОТЕЧЕСТВА" (For the salvation of the faith and the fatherland) (the ВЕ== I assume is ВЕРЫ (some numbskull punched a hole in the medal), and the E in that word is the old Slavonic "crossed Ь" type E).
At the bottom of the coin are the words "КОРОНОВ=== ВМОСКВ=/СЕНТ===== 1762."
In tiny letters is the name(?) ECHTER.F in what appear to be Latin letters, but the bottom of the row is worn and it could be something like ЕСНТЕВ.Е. Google has not turned up anything for this.
I do not know what metal it is made of, but the color in the photographs is misleading-- it is actually silver-colored. It seems too dull to be silver, though. Looking at similar medals on the site below, it is possibly similar to the tin-lead alloy coin.
It appears to be similar to, but not exactly (note the wording of the inscription of the date), the medal described in the sixth paragraph of this page. Other similar medals are here.
Questions:
1. Is it authentic?
2. Where should I go to show it to someone? (I live in San Francisco.)
3. Is it valuable? (It is pretty beat up.) How would I sell it?
All comments welcomed.
The front side has a bust of Catherine II with the words I tanslate as "B.M. Catherine II Empress and Sovereign of All-Russia" (Б.М.ЕКАТЕРИНА.II.IМПЕРАТ.И.САМОДЕРЖ.ВСЕРОСС"). It also has a small inscription at the bottom which probably reads "Timofej Ivanov" ("ТИМОФЕЙ ИВАНОВ"). Note that the "ф" is actually a Greek theta. Some of the letters in this inscription are a bit questionable, and we decided on that name when after trying several variations, we found that Timofej Ivanov was, in fact, a coin-maker operating at the time. However, it appears he usually signed his initials "Т.И." only.
The obverse side features a figure holding a cross and a woman in a dress holding out her hand over an altar with crossed swords on the side and and a lamp(?) on top. There are columns to the left. Some sort of sigil is in the center, surrounded by a wreath, and an angel carrying a crown hovers above. Around the edge is written "ЗА СПАСЕНIЕ ВЕ== И ОТЕЧЕСТВА" (For the salvation of the faith and the fatherland) (the ВЕ== I assume is ВЕРЫ (some numbskull punched a hole in the medal), and the E in that word is the old Slavonic "crossed Ь" type E).
At the bottom of the coin are the words "КОРОНОВ=== ВМОСКВ=/СЕНТ===== 1762."
In tiny letters is the name(?) ECHTER.F in what appear to be Latin letters, but the bottom of the row is worn and it could be something like ЕСНТЕВ.Е. Google has not turned up anything for this.
I do not know what metal it is made of, but the color in the photographs is misleading-- it is actually silver-colored. It seems too dull to be silver, though. Looking at similar medals on the site below, it is possibly similar to the tin-lead alloy coin.
It appears to be similar to, but not exactly (note the wording of the inscription of the date), the medal described in the sixth paragraph of this page. Other similar medals are here.
Questions:
1. Is it authentic?
2. Where should I go to show it to someone? (I live in San Francisco.)
3. Is it valuable? (It is pretty beat up.) How would I sell it?
All comments welcomed.
Response by poster: Also, embarrassing. I'm really on a roll tonight.
posted by alexei at 11:05 PM on September 4, 2006
posted by alexei at 11:05 PM on September 4, 2006
Best answer: Looks like a coronation medal, very similar to item 2216 here. Not identical, but very close. That one sold for $5750, but was in very nice shape and was gold. Yours is in lousy shape and isn't. It might be worth a couple of hundred bucks, max, but I'm not a professional.
According to this page, medals of this type were given to folks who participated in the coup d'etat of 1762.
posted by solid-one-love at 11:56 PM on September 4, 2006
According to this page, medals of this type were given to folks who participated in the coup d'etat of 1762.
posted by solid-one-love at 11:56 PM on September 4, 2006
Б.М. stands for bozhiei milosti 'by the grace of God'; the Greek theta was used in pre-Revolutionary Russia for those f's that came from, well, Greek thetas (Timofei is from Greek Timotheos). I can't help you with your actual questions, but I thought you'd want to know.
posted by languagehat at 6:40 AM on September 5, 2006
posted by languagehat at 6:40 AM on September 5, 2006
Coin silver (80% silver) is rather dull. Though it could be a low grade iron ("pot metal," "pig iron," etc.) or bronze alloy. As for its autheticity, ask yourself some basic questions. Does its providence make sense? As in, was your grandmother of Russian descent? How far back can you date it for sure? Was it a rare or valuable enough piece during the time of its manufacture to warrant reproducing?
Even if it is not an authentic 1762 metal, I think it's neat and probably is still reasonably valuable. Don't sell it for $30 in other words.
posted by mrmojoflying at 6:48 AM on September 5, 2006
Even if it is not an authentic 1762 metal, I think it's neat and probably is still reasonably valuable. Don't sell it for $30 in other words.
posted by mrmojoflying at 6:48 AM on September 5, 2006
Response by poster: Thanks for the answers.
Item 2216 is definitely the medal in question. Upon closer examination, I notice that the inscription (Timofej ...) is further to the left and the last name is longer. I wonder what that means.
Its provenance is reasonable-- my grandmother's parents were Russian émigrés before the Revolution and I have heard some talk of officers etc. in the family tree. She herself, however, has got the brain decay and will not be much help. I'll ask around, though-- my grandfather may know.
Ooh, here's an important question: should I clean it, and if so, how?
posted by alexei at 9:58 AM on September 5, 2006
Item 2216 is definitely the medal in question. Upon closer examination, I notice that the inscription (Timofej ...) is further to the left and the last name is longer. I wonder what that means.
Its provenance is reasonable-- my grandmother's parents were Russian émigrés before the Revolution and I have heard some talk of officers etc. in the family tree. She herself, however, has got the brain decay and will not be much help. I'll ask around, though-- my grandfather may know.
Ooh, here's an important question: should I clean it, and if so, how?
posted by alexei at 9:58 AM on September 5, 2006
My uncle owns a coin shop and says that one should never clean a coin. YMMV.
posted by achmorrison at 2:30 PM on September 5, 2006
posted by achmorrison at 2:30 PM on September 5, 2006
Ooh, here's an important question: should I clean it, and if so, how?
If you plan on selling it or desire that it retains any trade value then emphatically no. Without its original 'patina' it won't be of much interest to collectors of that sort of stuff. If just can't stand the way it looks and plan on keeping it, then do what you want.
posted by mrmojoflying at 4:56 PM on September 5, 2006
If you plan on selling it or desire that it retains any trade value then emphatically no. Without its original 'patina' it won't be of much interest to collectors of that sort of stuff. If just can't stand the way it looks and plan on keeping it, then do what you want.
posted by mrmojoflying at 4:56 PM on September 5, 2006
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by null terminated at 11:01 PM on September 4, 2006