Sell my soul to get ahead?

June 1, 2006 7:37 AM

Should I leave my luxurious job as a pampered senior developer at a startup to become a manager + learn about business + get more pay at a larger, more boring, publicly-traded company?

Currently I work as a senior software engineer at a mid-sized startup company (about 30 people). I've been there roughly 2.5 years, and am considered an expert within our product line.

We have a really nice office, and as a company we have a lot of fun. Lots of parties, movies, video games, free food, etc. It's great, and the people are great.

Recently, a powerful friend of mine has told me he wants me to come work with him at his company and that he'll give me my own team and train me as a manager at a higher pay. He promises career growth opportunity, whereas at my current company I'm pretty much pegged as a developer with little opportunity to become a manager+ in the near future.

This new company is much larger and publicly traded (about 300 people). The office space I would be working in is a huge room packed with small cubicles with a low ceiling. There is no free food, there are no video games. It's a lot more subdued at this new place; almost soul crushing. It's very "Office Space"-esque, if you've seen the movie.

A few other things I'm worried about:

My commute would be much longer - right now it's about 25 minutes to work; the new office would be about 45 minutes.

Our development team at my startup is small (5 people), and I'm the main guy. My manager will need another senior engineer fast or our current schedule will definitely slip. Plus I consider my manager a friend, and I want to remain friends but I feel like I'm abandoning him.

My current manager has recently mentioned we could be taking on a new junior developer soon that I could mentor. I could try to get the best of both worlds by telling my manager I'm very interested in becoming a manager, and see if we can come up with a solution in the foreseeable future (though this seems like a stretch and I do think that my powerful friend at the new place would teach me worlds about business).

I guess my question is, what is it worth to get ahead? Am I spoiled by office ameneties, having worked at mostly small startups up to this point? Am I making a mistake by mixing friendship and business? Should I suck it up and work at the new place because the career + pay advancement will help me in the long run whereas the dismal office conditions are more short-term?

Thanks for reading... I'm really torn.

posted by blahtsk to Work & Money (22 answers total)

Personally, I would stay at the start-up. It sounds like yo'ure happy there. I like the smaller company vibe a lot more than the big company vibe. One thing to consider is that not all startups are the same - what you have is probably unique (or rare) and particular to that company and it's culture. So you might consider that once you've left, it might be tougher to find another place you like as much.

I've worked for a few startups, one from birth through 400+ person publicly traded company and can say that despite better pay, responibility, etc., there's a lot to be said for working with people you like in a place you like. But ultimately you have to decide if money/advancement is worth giving up the stuff you like at your current company.

The other thing to consider is that if your current company is growing, there will probably ultimately be room for you to grow as well. Just might take longer.
posted by drobot at 7:45 AM on June 1, 2006

Make your feelings known to your current manager - if they're willing to buy you food to keep you happy, they'd probably be willing to put you into a different, more challenging role if you ask. I've always found lots of opportunity at smaller companies. Just let it be known that you want more.
posted by GuyZero at 7:46 AM on June 1, 2006

Do you think if you stay at your current job you will always be satisfied with the fantastic working conditions but little prospects of career advancement?

If it was me I'd go for the new job, as like you said, the dismal office conditions are short-term, whereas who knows where it could take you in the future? You could learn loads and develop your career far more than your current job would allow.

Maybe you should ask yourself how you'd feel still being in your (albeit fantastic, comfortable, friendly etc) job doing exactly the same thing, with the same people in say 10 or 15 years time. If you don't like the sound of this, go for the new job.
posted by schmoo at 7:52 AM on June 1, 2006

Actually, yeah I aggree with the others -maybe talk to your manager first before making any decisions!
posted by schmoo at 7:53 AM on June 1, 2006

No. Don't underestimate the effect your physical work environment has on your overall well being and peace of mind.

I'm fairly convinced that it's impossible to do quailty work in a cubicle environment.
posted by Capn at 8:00 AM on June 1, 2006

Your current job sounds a whole lot better than the new one. The fact that you describe the offering company as "'Office Space'-esque" rings major alarm bells for me. I wouldn't move.
posted by Faint of Butt at 8:13 AM on June 1, 2006

As someone who has worked in a very "office-spaceish" environment as a programmer, I would think long and hard before switching jobs. The day-to-day grayness of a work environment deplete of any personality -- sad, forced get togethers for a piece of cake when someone turns 37 included - can certainly wear on you, especially if one of the things you truly appreciate about your current situation is the culture.

If I were you, I'd ask myself a few questions:

1) How important is more money to me? Both in the immediate future and in the long-term, assuming that going the management route will lead to higher salaries later on in your career. If you are comfortable now, is the extra money worth the downgrade in your day-to-day enjoyment of your work environment?

2) Are you stagnant in your current job? After my office-space job, I moved to another city and another company, the online division of a big corporate behometh, that had a lot of the great work environment perks that you seem to be enjoying currently. However, because of it - nobody ever left, and there was no way to move ahead in my career. I left four years ago, and the guys that were at the same level as me then, still are there now in the same position. They get paid handsomely, so that helps - but after a while, a lack of a challenge can wear on you as well. However, even if you answer "yes" to this question, it doesn't necessarily mean you have to go the "office space" route. You can wait for a better option to come along - as it sounds like you're not in dire straits by any means in your current position.

Best of luck to you
posted by buddha9090 at 8:14 AM on June 1, 2006

Flip jobs, if you don't like it you can always find a job at another startup but in the meantime it will look good on your resume and will allow you to expand your skills. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.
posted by zeoslap at 8:16 AM on June 1, 2006

Consider the new job only on the condition that they empower you, as a manager, to change the "soul crushing" environment you described. If you were allowed to give your team the odd party, move, video game, etc, you could have the best of both worlds.
posted by rocket88 at 8:22 AM on June 1, 2006

I've been tempted/pushed toward management a few times, and I've halfheartedly tried going in that direction. But for me, management feels tedious in a way that engineering doesn't. Ultimately, I couldn't do it. And when my small, privately-held company came through with a big raise and still no management duties, I was mighty glad I didn't. The "career advancement" showed up, but like drobot said, it just took longer.
posted by maniabug at 8:27 AM on June 1, 2006

Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

Yeah, but this doesn't sound like the right venture. You sound like someone who has lots to offer lots of companies.

Talk to your manager, sure. But if you're going to move on, do it to place that offers you similar amenities to what you've got. You're going to find out pretty quickly that quality of environment is worth a lot of salary. Opportunity will definitely knock again for you, lots of times. And without the strong reservations that you have.
posted by Mayor Curley at 8:27 AM on June 1, 2006

Don't flip jobs, if you don't like it, you can't always find as good a job at another startup, and if you can't stand the new job, it will look lousy on your resume that you left quickly. You can expand your skills at your current job. Nothing ventured, nothing lost.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 8:32 AM on June 1, 2006

I'd stick with the job that you like. Just look at the words you're using: "fun", "great" vs. "boring", "soul-crushing". Having a job that you like contributes a lot to your overall quality of life. I've worked in startups and big companies (and in startups that got bought by big companies), and the extra money and "career advancement" while I was at the big companies didn't make it worthwhile. I'm back at a small, fun company now.
posted by aneel at 8:32 AM on June 1, 2006

I'd draw up a list of pros for each job. Really, the best job is the one you're happiest at. It sounds like from your description that its your current job that has and will continue to hold the most enjoyment for yourself.

In plain, short, and simple:

Choose the job that keeps you happiest.
posted by Atreides at 8:33 AM on June 1, 2006

Shorter commute, more fun, fewer cubes, less money? This shouldn't even be a consideration. Stick with your current job. Money isn't everything.
posted by Optimus Chyme at 8:34 AM on June 1, 2006

(I'm one of the guys that buddha9090 writes about; I'm in a well-paying but low-fun and stagnant position that i've had off and on for about 8 years. It grinds on me a bit and I sometimes think I would jump to a smaller, more fun company even if the bucks were less.)

If I was in the original poster's shoes, i would first try to determine whether the startup was going to be around for a while, and that there would be room to grow. No sense in hanging around if it could go down the tubes. Then I would go to my manager, tell them about the other offer (in non-specific terms), describe why it was attractive to you ($, responsibility) and then tell them that if you thought you had the same opportunities at your current place, you'd for sure stay put. It would also help if you were able to hit them with ideas about how you could improve things.

A great workplace is a beautiful thing, so it's worth it to stay put, even for a bit less coin. IMHO.
posted by Artful Codger at 8:34 AM on June 1, 2006

I just went from software developer to manager at my startup, about 6 weeks ago. For me, it's been a HUGE change with way more challenges than I had imagined.

If you want to become a manager, do it at a place where you'll get lots of mentorship. I'd even suggest that it's better to learn how to manage when you're not managing 'your baby'. The temptation to do everything yourself will be huge, and that will sink you.

Regarding the office-space-esque environment... is your powerful friend really a good friend? If he knows you fairly well, in theory he would know whether you can tolerate their work environment. I'm guessing that he thinks it's not that bad, and that his company has a future. Otherwise he wouldn't risk bringing a friend on board.

I say make the switch, because the value of the education far outweighs every other consideration.
posted by hammurderer at 8:39 AM on June 1, 2006

I've worked the gamut of software companies, so here's my perspective. First of all, feelings like this:

My manager will need another senior engineer fast or our current schedule will definitely slip. Plus I consider my manager a friend, and I want to remain friends but I feel like I'm abandoning him.

Should never, ever factor into your decision. It's just second-guessing yourself and it leads to you eventually being stuck in a job you don't like and resenting your friend. Want to start thinking like a manager? There's your first lesson.

All in all, it sounds like you've clearly got some thinking to do about your current position, regardless of whether you take this new opportunity or not. I'm guessing you hadn't seriously considered the management path before, and this guy's offer is suddenly turning on a lot of light bulbs.

So, first of all, talk to your current manager, let them know you've been thinking about this, BUT NOT IN THE CONTEXT OF A JOB OFFER. Free food and video games are nice perks, but they generally come at the expense of other things (pay, long hours, immature management). At some point, to get ahead in life, you're going to either have to leave the company or take it over. The former is generally the easier path.

I do think you need to treat this other job offer seriously, if only as a matter of courtesy. Have you talked to the other employees there? Work environment aside, are the things you'd be working on interesting? Would they be teaching you new skills? There's a lot you can learn working for a large company.

And then you can go back to the startup life. It's what I did, and I don't regret a thing.
posted by mkultra at 8:40 AM on June 1, 2006

Are you sure you want to be managementy?
Management (if you're actually trying to do the job, not just passing responsibility) reduces the time to do development work and can be a lot less fun.
On the other hand, of course, it opens your career to further riches and further progression, although generally to other management positions.

I wouldn't touch the new job, but that's a personal thing.
I would however talk to my current bosses about expanding the current role to other areas. If you're getting itchy feet about your job getting stale, find out whether management is what you want somewhere that you're valued, not somewhere that would regard a reconsideration as a failure.

Good luck.
posted by NinjaTadpole at 8:41 AM on June 1, 2006

I'd definitely stay at the old job, but I'd tell my manager about the offer I received. He's most likely going to try to work with you to give you an incentive to stay.
posted by hazyjane at 9:52 AM on June 1, 2006

The first time I wrote this, it got really long. Here it is, in bullet points:

- I have several relatives who have jobs with great pay, but who are very unhappy in their jobs. Making lots of money is no good if you have no time to enjoy it.

- Twisting hammurderer's comment slightly: how high up is your friend? Maybe you could convince him of the values of a non-depressing office and get him to change things there.

- Potential for advancement, and training in new areas, is very important. However, it sounds like you might soon have the potential for advancement at your existing job, too.

- How confident are you that your startup will be around in a year? This could be useful in deciding where to stay.

I vote that you stay in your current job, where you're happy. But, as others said, talk to your boss and see if there's any way he can advance you a bit. It sounds like you're important enough to the company that they'd place a high priority on keeping you with them. (Just make sure it's a polite, "I'd really like to stay with this company..." sort of thing, as opposed to a list of demands.)
posted by fogster at 10:09 AM on June 1, 2006

If you take the new job, can I have your old one?
posted by aparrish at 11:18 AM on June 1, 2006