How do I get my wife to be less afraid of bears eating us when we go camping?
May 25, 2006 1:26 PM Subscribe
Last year I bought all of the gear my wife and I need to start spending more of our free time in the woods, hiking and camping. The issue is she is a city girl (well, Long Island) and has never been camping and is deathly afraid that bears (or other wild animals) will get us.
Despite my repeated explanations that nothing like that will happen, she continues to have these somewhat irrational fears. I repeatedly explain that that the animals are likely more afraid of her than she is of them and the only time there is danger is when you startle them, threaten their young or do something foolish like try to feed them.
I've gotten her to agree to at least try camping with me this summer, but I fear that we'll end up at the nearest hotel/motel at 1:00 AM because of the natural, nocturnal sounds of the woods at night.
Last year we stayed at a ski resort in Wyoming in September for one night and I tried to take my wife on a short "night hike". Despite having flashlights, we barely made it 20 yards down the well-marked trail before she became too frightened to continue. No amount of explanation, pleading or rational discourse was able to get her to continue.
In my 20's I was a camp counselor in Northern Michigan and many of the kids we had were city kids from Detroit and Chicago, who also were afraid of the woods at night. We regularly took them on "night hikes", which seemed to help a lot of them.
What kinds of things can I do in the next few weeks to prepare her for our first camping outing this summer? We live in Brooklyn, so access to true nature is pretty difficult without driving for a while. Prospect Park just does not cut it.
I want our camping experiences to be enjoyable and I know that she is capable of getting over her fears. I'm just not sure what other things I can try to help her get over her fears.
Despite my repeated explanations that nothing like that will happen, she continues to have these somewhat irrational fears. I repeatedly explain that that the animals are likely more afraid of her than she is of them and the only time there is danger is when you startle them, threaten their young or do something foolish like try to feed them.
I've gotten her to agree to at least try camping with me this summer, but I fear that we'll end up at the nearest hotel/motel at 1:00 AM because of the natural, nocturnal sounds of the woods at night.
Last year we stayed at a ski resort in Wyoming in September for one night and I tried to take my wife on a short "night hike". Despite having flashlights, we barely made it 20 yards down the well-marked trail before she became too frightened to continue. No amount of explanation, pleading or rational discourse was able to get her to continue.
In my 20's I was a camp counselor in Northern Michigan and many of the kids we had were city kids from Detroit and Chicago, who also were afraid of the woods at night. We regularly took them on "night hikes", which seemed to help a lot of them.
What kinds of things can I do in the next few weeks to prepare her for our first camping outing this summer? We live in Brooklyn, so access to true nature is pretty difficult without driving for a while. Prospect Park just does not cut it.
I want our camping experiences to be enjoyable and I know that she is capable of getting over her fears. I'm just not sure what other things I can try to help her get over her fears.
cabin idea is great. also no reason to do the night hikes now--to get her accustomed to the night noises.
posted by lester at 1:38 PM on May 25, 2006
posted by lester at 1:38 PM on May 25, 2006
Go someplace remarkably safe for the first few times out, like a state park on the beach or something.
posted by frogan at 1:39 PM on May 25, 2006
posted by frogan at 1:39 PM on May 25, 2006
You could go for a desert hike in the Southwest, like the Grand Canyon. That was my first adventure backpacking and the vast beauty far outweighed the slight anxiety I had over a few small rodents in our campsite at night. I was 18 or 19 and it was the first outdoors trip I ever took, the first time I slept under the stars, and the first time I even saw the Milky Way.
On the west coast, there's always car camping at the beach to gently ease someone into outdoors stuff. Is there anything like that on the east coast?
posted by mathowie at 1:39 PM on May 25, 2006 [1 favorite]
On the west coast, there's always car camping at the beach to gently ease someone into outdoors stuff. Is there anything like that on the east coast?
posted by mathowie at 1:39 PM on May 25, 2006 [1 favorite]
Start with day hikes, especially guided nature hikes. There are fewer things to fear at night when you've experienced them in broad daylight. Admitedly, the night gets loud in the woods, but you can also try higher altitudes where there are fewer insects.
On preview - you might try Isle Royale as a destination. They have cabins which are pretty nice as a retreat and you can play day hikes, evening hikes and overnight if she's up to it. It's a gorgeous destination and the worst predatorial threats are the biting insects. There is a decent moose population, foxes and wolves (which, trust me, you will never see).
posted by plinth at 1:40 PM on May 25, 2006
On preview - you might try Isle Royale as a destination. They have cabins which are pretty nice as a retreat and you can play day hikes, evening hikes and overnight if she's up to it. It's a gorgeous destination and the worst predatorial threats are the biting insects. There is a decent moose population, foxes and wolves (which, trust me, you will never see).
posted by plinth at 1:40 PM on May 25, 2006
Hmm... What about visiting the Rockefeller Reserve in Tarrytown? It's a fairly large state park that is also in easy walking/taxi distance of the Tarrytown Metro North.
Or an overnight stay at Bear Mountain?
posted by huskerdont at 1:41 PM on May 25, 2006
Or an overnight stay at Bear Mountain?
posted by huskerdont at 1:41 PM on May 25, 2006
How about making the first trip a serious, strenuous hike with a backpack? If she's completely exhausted by the time you make camp, she should sleep through the night with no problems. I went on a backpacking trip about a week after seeing Blair Witch, and I would have been freaked out through each night, except for the fact that I was too tired to freak out...
posted by mr_roboto at 1:42 PM on May 25, 2006
posted by mr_roboto at 1:42 PM on May 25, 2006
Your use of normative terms like "natural" and "rational" threw up flags for me; I would just like to plant the idea that fear is fear because it is not rational. Your wife might not appreciate your suggestions that her fear of the wilderness is irrational.
I've done extended whitewater canoe trips in Canada's north since I was a teen. It's great Mrs. docgonzo shares my love of the outdoors. But good friends of ours dissolved their marriage in no small part because of the resentment and anger generated by his insistence that his urban wife go camping -- and enjoy it.
posted by docgonzo at 1:45 PM on May 25, 2006
I've done extended whitewater canoe trips in Canada's north since I was a teen. It's great Mrs. docgonzo shares my love of the outdoors. But good friends of ours dissolved their marriage in no small part because of the resentment and anger generated by his insistence that his urban wife go camping -- and enjoy it.
posted by docgonzo at 1:45 PM on May 25, 2006
Response by poster: Just some clarification. I am from Michigan but we live in Brooklyn, New York. I also have 20 years of off and on camping experience, but I've never taken newbies camping so trying to help my wife become adjusted to nature/camping is where I am stumbling.
I also thought about renting a motorhome and using that as her first campng experience. That way, we're in the woods (sort of) but still have the "shelter and safety" her brain demands.
posted by camworld at 1:46 PM on May 25, 2006
I also thought about renting a motorhome and using that as her first campng experience. That way, we're in the woods (sort of) but still have the "shelter and safety" her brain demands.
posted by camworld at 1:46 PM on May 25, 2006
Reason rarely works in these situations, but black bears are basically glorified racoons, they aren't going to attack you. They aren't grizzlies or polar bears.
Starting with camping and night time hiking is definitely not the best move, do day hikes for a while first.
You can definitely get to places with good hiking in an hour or two. There are plenty of those within an easy drive of brooklyn (head northwest up the hudson, lots of places from Bear Moutain up into the catskills). I'm sure there's lots of other day hikes nearby too.
Ease into it. If she enjoys the day hikes, then try a cabin, then try the overnight camping in tents.
posted by malphigian at 1:46 PM on May 25, 2006
Starting with camping and night time hiking is definitely not the best move, do day hikes for a while first.
You can definitely get to places with good hiking in an hour or two. There are plenty of those within an easy drive of brooklyn (head northwest up the hudson, lots of places from Bear Moutain up into the catskills). I'm sure there's lots of other day hikes nearby too.
Ease into it. If she enjoys the day hikes, then try a cabin, then try the overnight camping in tents.
posted by malphigian at 1:46 PM on May 25, 2006
For your first few trips can you take her to a part of the country where there are hardly any animals she might find scary? I guess that would be impossible if she's afraid of, like, possums, or rabbits, or something, but definitely save the areas with bear and moose for later.
Also, this is kind of silly, maybe, but has she seen the most recent season of Survivor? There was a woman named Cirie on there who was a dedicated couch potato and had never camped in her life, and by the end of the show she could catch fish, make fire, sleep outside, and drink and eat nastier things than she had probably ever imagined before. If your wife is the sort who likes reality shows anyway, she might actually find it very inspiring, in a kind of "If she can do it, I can do it" sort of way.
posted by MsMolly at 1:48 PM on May 25, 2006
Also, this is kind of silly, maybe, but has she seen the most recent season of Survivor? There was a woman named Cirie on there who was a dedicated couch potato and had never camped in her life, and by the end of the show she could catch fish, make fire, sleep outside, and drink and eat nastier things than she had probably ever imagined before. If your wife is the sort who likes reality shows anyway, she might actually find it very inspiring, in a kind of "If she can do it, I can do it" sort of way.
posted by MsMolly at 1:48 PM on May 25, 2006
Thought 1 - can you go camping somewhere where there aren't any bears / big beasties? Then she can get to grips with the whole camping experience with one less thing to worry about.
Thought 2 - don't just dismiss her fears, that will only to make her feel worse. She's willing to try something new, so you need to be sensitive to the fact that she's a bit nervous and not make her feel stupid.
Final thought - take playing cards and plenty of batteries for your head torch - and offer to stay up all night with her if she's scared. Sometimes the fear of going to sleep and not being alert to what's going on is the worst, and being awake isn't quite so bad.
posted by MaJumelleDiabolique at 1:53 PM on May 25, 2006
Thought 2 - don't just dismiss her fears, that will only to make her feel worse. She's willing to try something new, so you need to be sensitive to the fact that she's a bit nervous and not make her feel stupid.
Final thought - take playing cards and plenty of batteries for your head torch - and offer to stay up all night with her if she's scared. Sometimes the fear of going to sleep and not being alert to what's going on is the worst, and being awake isn't quite so bad.
posted by MaJumelleDiabolique at 1:53 PM on May 25, 2006
Sleeping outside scared the crap out of me the first 10 or so nights I did it, so I know where she's coming from. I knew the rational explanations but that didn't help. It was only with experience that the fears went away (and having other people around help.)
First, are you sure she really wants to get more comfortable with this or is she just going along because she thinks it'll make you happy? If it's the latter, cut your losses now and don't push her.
If she really wants to try sleeping outside here are a couple more options. First, to elaborate on ShawnString's cabin idea, maybe you can find a place with a porch you can try sleeping out on, and if things get bad duck inside. Second, consider an RV park or campground with a wooded, secluded tent area (e.g., the Dorset RV Park in Dorset, Vermont) -- this might offer more of a sense of security, and if it all goes downhill you can hide out in the rec building until sunup. Killens Pond State Park is another place I've been like this. If you do the private campground thing, plan on driving to your hikes (which is actually okay -- not having to carry your camp on your back means you can pack a bigger, more comfy tent.)
Also, many state park campgrounds now offer yurts and cabins as overnight options (but they do go fast) -- Google is your friend here.
Another option, if woods noise is an issue -- you can try camping someplace without woods. Look for seaside campgrounds with tent areas (e.g., Cape Henlopen in Delaware, Assateague National Seashore in Md., Fire Island NY) though seaside camping has its own unique set of problems (e.g., at Assateague you have wild horses which sometimes find their way into the campground, and it can get hot as hell during the day and windy at night.)
One more option -- stay at a hiker's lodge. The Appalachian Mountain Club has several options with varying degrees of comfort (and expense) scattered throughout the Northeast. Accomodations range from bare-bones cabins to full service lodges with private rooms. Almost all of them offer excellent opportunities for hiking, and some you have to hike in to. The Adirondack Mountain Club also has a couple of lodges in upstate NY.
I'd stay out of the NJ woods if she's worried about bears. They are there and not that bothered by people. Similar caveats for NW Connecticut and SW Massachusetts, though the bears there are generally shyer.
posted by Opposite George at 2:16 PM on May 25, 2006 [1 favorite]
First, are you sure she really wants to get more comfortable with this or is she just going along because she thinks it'll make you happy? If it's the latter, cut your losses now and don't push her.
If she really wants to try sleeping outside here are a couple more options. First, to elaborate on ShawnString's cabin idea, maybe you can find a place with a porch you can try sleeping out on, and if things get bad duck inside. Second, consider an RV park or campground with a wooded, secluded tent area (e.g., the Dorset RV Park in Dorset, Vermont) -- this might offer more of a sense of security, and if it all goes downhill you can hide out in the rec building until sunup. Killens Pond State Park is another place I've been like this. If you do the private campground thing, plan on driving to your hikes (which is actually okay -- not having to carry your camp on your back means you can pack a bigger, more comfy tent.)
Also, many state park campgrounds now offer yurts and cabins as overnight options (but they do go fast) -- Google is your friend here.
Another option, if woods noise is an issue -- you can try camping someplace without woods. Look for seaside campgrounds with tent areas (e.g., Cape Henlopen in Delaware, Assateague National Seashore in Md., Fire Island NY) though seaside camping has its own unique set of problems (e.g., at Assateague you have wild horses which sometimes find their way into the campground, and it can get hot as hell during the day and windy at night.)
One more option -- stay at a hiker's lodge. The Appalachian Mountain Club has several options with varying degrees of comfort (and expense) scattered throughout the Northeast. Accomodations range from bare-bones cabins to full service lodges with private rooms. Almost all of them offer excellent opportunities for hiking, and some you have to hike in to. The Adirondack Mountain Club also has a couple of lodges in upstate NY.
I'd stay out of the NJ woods if she's worried about bears. They are there and not that bothered by people. Similar caveats for NW Connecticut and SW Massachusetts, though the bears there are generally shyer.
posted by Opposite George at 2:16 PM on May 25, 2006 [1 favorite]
er, that's "having other people around helps," "Killens Pond State Park in Delaware" and "you can pack a bigger, more comfy tent and other stuff to make the experience more civilized -- this can help."
posted by Opposite George at 2:20 PM on May 25, 2006
posted by Opposite George at 2:20 PM on May 25, 2006
Oh, doy, one more thing. Foam earplugs can help ease the noise jitters, and help her stay asleep if she's a light sleeper. iPod/Walkman is another (though less cuddly) option.
posted by Opposite George at 3:00 PM on May 25, 2006
posted by Opposite George at 3:00 PM on May 25, 2006
A couple of things helped for me. I bought a bear canister (for storing food), and when I bring it with me backpacking or carcamping, I'm a little more at ease, not bothering to check every twig snapping in the night to see if I need to run a bear off. Since I'm more at ease, ignoring night sounds, she is less anxious as well.
A couple of daytime encounters with Black Bears, where she could observe their behaviour and me confronting and running them off helped immensely and now she is barely concerned.
Learn as much as you can about the subject so you can answer any questions/concerns she has, and throw out little factoids like: "Did you know deer cause the most injuries of any wild animals?". A good book on the subject is Bear Attacks: Their causes and avoidance by Stephen Herrero. Understanding the difference between Grizzlies/Brown Bears and Black Bears is key, but under certain rare conditions Black Bears also predate humans (highly food-habituated, or little exposure to humans + poor health).
A bright headlamp and backup flashlight might be nice gifts, as always knowing where your light is can be reassuring.
posted by Manjusri at 3:04 PM on May 25, 2006
A couple of daytime encounters with Black Bears, where she could observe their behaviour and me confronting and running them off helped immensely and now she is barely concerned.
Learn as much as you can about the subject so you can answer any questions/concerns she has, and throw out little factoids like: "Did you know deer cause the most injuries of any wild animals?". A good book on the subject is Bear Attacks: Their causes and avoidance by Stephen Herrero. Understanding the difference between Grizzlies/Brown Bears and Black Bears is key, but under certain rare conditions Black Bears also predate humans (highly food-habituated, or little exposure to humans + poor health).
A bright headlamp and backup flashlight might be nice gifts, as always knowing where your light is can be reassuring.
posted by Manjusri at 3:04 PM on May 25, 2006
avid Southwest backpacker here - we've seen bears out in the woods, but have never had them come anywhere near our camp while we were there. In fact the only time I've been injured by anything while camping was when some jackass kid ran a three-wheeler over my tent in a southern Calif. campground.
That's why we like to hike in really far - the fewer trashy campground people the better.
We have two dogs, and they go on nearly every trip with us. They're quite handy for scaring off would-be food bag marauders (most often very, very small animals, not bears). As long as you're going somewhere where dogs are allowed, why not borrow a friend's mutt to take along?
Finally, a little booze always comes in handy. Nothing calms the nerves like a campfire, the moon and a Nalgene bottle of good wine after a very long hike.
/going backpacking in Bisti badlands this weekend. w00t!
posted by M.C. Lo-Carb! at 3:17 PM on May 25, 2006
That's why we like to hike in really far - the fewer trashy campground people the better.
We have two dogs, and they go on nearly every trip with us. They're quite handy for scaring off would-be food bag marauders (most often very, very small animals, not bears). As long as you're going somewhere where dogs are allowed, why not borrow a friend's mutt to take along?
Finally, a little booze always comes in handy. Nothing calms the nerves like a campfire, the moon and a Nalgene bottle of good wine after a very long hike.
/going backpacking in Bisti badlands this weekend. w00t!
posted by M.C. Lo-Carb! at 3:17 PM on May 25, 2006
Allow me to disagree with the tone above. Black bears are not basically glorified racoons. I've seen a black bear tear off a car door. I've seen a pissed off cinnamon bear roll a VW beetle on its roof. I've lost packs to bears that were hanging 6 yards from the ground (and got pictures of the bear doing it). While bears should not be irrationally feared and should not stop your activity, they are nothing to take lightly either.
The suggestions for camping outside of bear country are the best. Save the adventuers in Yellowstone or the Nahani for when she's more comfortable with the idea.
posted by bonehead at 3:21 PM on May 25, 2006
The suggestions for camping outside of bear country are the best. Save the adventuers in Yellowstone or the Nahani for when she's more comfortable with the idea.
posted by bonehead at 3:21 PM on May 25, 2006
Best answer: What is probably the *real* scary part is that there are only two of you on any given adventure. Join a hiking club or an outdoor adventure group and go with 10--20 people to get acclimated with the outdoors. As your wife gets more comfortable consider going out on your own.
Night hikes can be scary, but its ok to be scared with 10 other people -- there is safety in numbers.
posted by maxpower at 4:07 PM on May 25, 2006 [1 favorite]
Night hikes can be scary, but its ok to be scared with 10 other people -- there is safety in numbers.
posted by maxpower at 4:07 PM on May 25, 2006 [1 favorite]
My boyfriend and I once timed a hike a little badly, and ended up finishing on a trail substantially after it got dark. I wasn't scared of animals per se, but I was *not* having a good time trying to find my way down a trail in the dark (and it was a trail we had done before). If someone had been after me with "explanation, pleading and rational discourse" about how I shouldn't be nervous, I probably would have hit him and refused to go out hiking ever again.
Taking kids out in your care is different than dealing with a wife. The kids presumably assumed that since you were an adult, you knew what you were doing, and were probably fairly used to blindly following orders from grown-ups. Wives might not be willing to put quite so much trust in an assurance of "Oh, it'll be ok" and should rightly get pissed off at being condescended to.
All this to say... I wouldn't push it, especially for night hikes or camping. If you make her feel uncomfortable, or push her beyond where she's OK, she's not going to want to have anything to do with the great outdoors ever. You're not her parent or camp counselor, you're her partner, and you should be making her feel supported and safe, not pushing her to be something you think she should be.
posted by occhiblu at 4:30 PM on May 25, 2006
Taking kids out in your care is different than dealing with a wife. The kids presumably assumed that since you were an adult, you knew what you were doing, and were probably fairly used to blindly following orders from grown-ups. Wives might not be willing to put quite so much trust in an assurance of "Oh, it'll be ok" and should rightly get pissed off at being condescended to.
All this to say... I wouldn't push it, especially for night hikes or camping. If you make her feel uncomfortable, or push her beyond where she's OK, she's not going to want to have anything to do with the great outdoors ever. You're not her parent or camp counselor, you're her partner, and you should be making her feel supported and safe, not pushing her to be something you think she should be.
posted by occhiblu at 4:30 PM on May 25, 2006
Also, if pot is any part of your camping or hiking ritual, I'd skip it. It doesn't normally make me paranoid -- except for a memorably awful night out in the woods, where I spent the entire night convinced some raving axe-murderer was going to break down the door of the cabin and come chop us to pieces.
posted by occhiblu at 4:32 PM on May 25, 2006
posted by occhiblu at 4:32 PM on May 25, 2006
Reason rarely works in these situations, but black bears are basically glorified racoons, they aren't going to attack you. They aren't grizzlies or polar bears.
Actually black bears are MORE likely to attack you than brown bears are. Anyone who's spent time around bears will tell you that. Step one: learn about bears.
After that I'd suggest going camping with a group to start with. Or if you have a friend with a cabin go and camp in their yard or camp in a realy busy car camping site with lots of other people around. Get informed about bears and bring a bear container and bear spray with you and practice until you feel comfortable in the back country.
If it will help, bring a gun. The thing that gives me the greatest piece of mind camping in bear country is a .44 and someone who knows how to use it. The odds are a million to one you'll ever have to use it of course but it doesn't hurt to have it as long as you know how to use it and you aren't drinking*
*if anyone is going to lecture me about how bears don't eat responsible campers, save it. I've spent years working in the backcountry and had numerous bear encounters. You can act perfectly around a bear but have the misfortune to encounter one that has learned to associate food with people before you came on the scene just about anywhere.
posted by fshgrl at 6:32 PM on May 25, 2006
Actually black bears are MORE likely to attack you than brown bears are. Anyone who's spent time around bears will tell you that. Step one: learn about bears.
After that I'd suggest going camping with a group to start with. Or if you have a friend with a cabin go and camp in their yard or camp in a realy busy car camping site with lots of other people around. Get informed about bears and bring a bear container and bear spray with you and practice until you feel comfortable in the back country.
If it will help, bring a gun. The thing that gives me the greatest piece of mind camping in bear country is a .44 and someone who knows how to use it. The odds are a million to one you'll ever have to use it of course but it doesn't hurt to have it as long as you know how to use it and you aren't drinking*
*if anyone is going to lecture me about how bears don't eat responsible campers, save it. I've spent years working in the backcountry and had numerous bear encounters. You can act perfectly around a bear but have the misfortune to encounter one that has learned to associate food with people before you came on the scene just about anywhere.
posted by fshgrl at 6:32 PM on May 25, 2006
I've got tons of irrational fears and phobias. No amount of rational explanation will alleviate my irrational fear because it's, uhm, an irrational fear.
Don't pressure. If she feels uncomfortable, then that's it. Let her do what's comfortable for her. If 20 feet with a flashlight is all she can handle right now, then that's what you will have to accept.
Generally it's best to do this sort of thing in stages to help desensitize. So I'd start with walks at night in tame areas. Then hikes during the day in less tame areas. Then a cabin. Then a tent in a tame area. Then a tent in a less tame area for one night. Then two nights. This might take a couple summers.
Listen to your wife. Take reasonable precautions but don't obsess. If suddenly you've got guns that you normally wouldn't take on a camping trip, that could just exacerbate her fears.
I have a parent who has anxiety and phobias. He "ruined" many family vacations before we learned how to just do our thing and let him stay in the hotel or whatever. As soon as there was no perceived pressure, suddenly he could get on planes and take cruises and go to crowded games and all sorts of things. It turns out that the angrier we got and the more pressure we put on him, the more anxious he would get. As soon as the success of the vacation no longer required him to get past a fear or phobia, he was fine and able to take part in these activities.
So make sure that your camping vacation includes activities that can be done from a motel/hotel (hiking, biking, etc). That way the vacation isn't "ruined" if you have to pack up camp at 1 a.m.
posted by xyzzy at 6:52 PM on May 25, 2006
Don't pressure. If she feels uncomfortable, then that's it. Let her do what's comfortable for her. If 20 feet with a flashlight is all she can handle right now, then that's what you will have to accept.
Generally it's best to do this sort of thing in stages to help desensitize. So I'd start with walks at night in tame areas. Then hikes during the day in less tame areas. Then a cabin. Then a tent in a tame area. Then a tent in a less tame area for one night. Then two nights. This might take a couple summers.
Listen to your wife. Take reasonable precautions but don't obsess. If suddenly you've got guns that you normally wouldn't take on a camping trip, that could just exacerbate her fears.
I have a parent who has anxiety and phobias. He "ruined" many family vacations before we learned how to just do our thing and let him stay in the hotel or whatever. As soon as there was no perceived pressure, suddenly he could get on planes and take cruises and go to crowded games and all sorts of things. It turns out that the angrier we got and the more pressure we put on him, the more anxious he would get. As soon as the success of the vacation no longer required him to get past a fear or phobia, he was fine and able to take part in these activities.
So make sure that your camping vacation includes activities that can be done from a motel/hotel (hiking, biking, etc). That way the vacation isn't "ruined" if you have to pack up camp at 1 a.m.
posted by xyzzy at 6:52 PM on May 25, 2006
the only time there is danger is when you startle them, threaten their young or do something foolish like try to feed them
This is patently false. It is merely unlikely that any random wildlife creature will attack you without excellent reason.
Bear Attacks: Their causes and avoidance by Stephen Herrero
Do Not allow her to read this book this year. It is an excellent book and, yes, one that all serious backpackers should read. That said, it is bloody unnerving and will almost certainly make your first few nights out in the dark a little more tense than usual. IMO it will scare the shit out of your wife and you will never, ever get to go camping again.
As long as you're going somewhere where dogs are allowed, why not borrow a friend's mutt to take along?
Because when said mutt encounters a bear and pisses it off, it will then come running back to you? Because dogs chase the hell out of wildlife, which generally has a rough enough time of trying to survive? Because your dog is likely to ingest all sorts of nasty parasites? These are all issues about which one should become informed, and then make a decision that is more about doing what's right than being selfish. I do not know the correct answer, only the concerns.
posted by five fresh fish at 7:16 PM on May 25, 2006
This is patently false. It is merely unlikely that any random wildlife creature will attack you without excellent reason.
Bear Attacks: Their causes and avoidance by Stephen Herrero
Do Not allow her to read this book this year. It is an excellent book and, yes, one that all serious backpackers should read. That said, it is bloody unnerving and will almost certainly make your first few nights out in the dark a little more tense than usual. IMO it will scare the shit out of your wife and you will never, ever get to go camping again.
As long as you're going somewhere where dogs are allowed, why not borrow a friend's mutt to take along?
Because when said mutt encounters a bear and pisses it off, it will then come running back to you? Because dogs chase the hell out of wildlife, which generally has a rough enough time of trying to survive? Because your dog is likely to ingest all sorts of nasty parasites? These are all issues about which one should become informed, and then make a decision that is more about doing what's right than being selfish. I do not know the correct answer, only the concerns.
posted by five fresh fish at 7:16 PM on May 25, 2006
And now my advice: if you can get agreement from your wife that outdoor camping pursuits are going to be in your future, allow her to ease into it. You may be stuck car-camping (campground camping) for a year or two, and doing day-hikes; then, when that entertainment has been largely exhausted, she may be more comfortable with the wild and ready to progress to backpacking.
Even after twenty years of wilderness camping experiences, I still get butterflies when it's 2AM and I hear a bear snorfling around the tent.
posted by five fresh fish at 7:19 PM on May 25, 2006
Even after twenty years of wilderness camping experiences, I still get butterflies when it's 2AM and I hear a bear snorfling around the tent.
posted by five fresh fish at 7:19 PM on May 25, 2006
Re: Acclimitization. Sometimes you can find weekend group night hikes -- check the AMC newsletters for chapters close to NYC. Going on one or two of these might make things easier for her as you guys'll be with a bunch of people and a (presumably) knowledgeable leader. We're cutting it close to your D-Day but you might luck out.
Also, many nature sanctuaries do short (~1 mile) guided night walks too -- again, these often aren't that frequent but Google around the Tri-state area to check.
Finally, if she's into stargazing you might try finding some dark sky areas for weekend road trips if the weather's nice -- this can be a good way to get used to being out in the open in the dark. One spot that's good for this is the hiker's parking lot at the end of Bunker Hill Road in Salisbury, CT (about 2 hrs. north of the city -- email me if you want directions.) It's in a meadow not too far from houses and also abuts an AT feeder if you feel like walking a bit into the woods in the dark. This is bear country so keep the food in the car (windows up) if you decide to go into the woods at night.
On the bear thing: the "glorified raccoon" characterization is not something I agree with, given my experiences in the Northeast. No, they usually won't bother you if you keep a clean camp and hang your food well away from your site but you never know. Don't camp in bear country until she gets more comfortable with the outdoors thing.
Re: Guns and pot. Definitely not on federal land (and this includes the AT.) If you run into a ranger with a bad sense of humor you could be in a world of hurt. On state land, check local laws and think about how lucky you feel before doing anything you might regret later.
posted by Opposite George at 7:27 PM on May 25, 2006
Also, many nature sanctuaries do short (~1 mile) guided night walks too -- again, these often aren't that frequent but Google around the Tri-state area to check.
Finally, if she's into stargazing you might try finding some dark sky areas for weekend road trips if the weather's nice -- this can be a good way to get used to being out in the open in the dark. One spot that's good for this is the hiker's parking lot at the end of Bunker Hill Road in Salisbury, CT (about 2 hrs. north of the city -- email me if you want directions.) It's in a meadow not too far from houses and also abuts an AT feeder if you feel like walking a bit into the woods in the dark. This is bear country so keep the food in the car (windows up) if you decide to go into the woods at night.
On the bear thing: the "glorified raccoon" characterization is not something I agree with, given my experiences in the Northeast. No, they usually won't bother you if you keep a clean camp and hang your food well away from your site but you never know. Don't camp in bear country until she gets more comfortable with the outdoors thing.
Re: Guns and pot. Definitely not on federal land (and this includes the AT.) If you run into a ranger with a bad sense of humor you could be in a world of hurt. On state land, check local laws and think about how lucky you feel before doing anything you might regret later.
posted by Opposite George at 7:27 PM on May 25, 2006
As long as you're going somewhere where dogs are allowed, why not borrow a friend's mutt to take along?
Because you really don't want to deal with the situation when the dog runs into a skunk or (worse, much worse) a porcupine.
posted by Opposite George at 7:30 PM on May 25, 2006
Because you really don't want to deal with the situation when the dog runs into a skunk or (worse, much worse) a porcupine.
posted by Opposite George at 7:30 PM on May 25, 2006
First, if she is not afraid of Prospect Park at night then she is tougher than she thinks.
There are many great day hikes north along the Hudson. One great one I did with a few couples was Breakneck Ridge just north of Cold Spring on Route 9. The wives were not too keen about camping out, so after a long day of hiking we went to a B&B in Cold Spring. (Something with a Pig in the name.) It was a start.
I have also done with my wife what I do with my kids. Sleep in our back yard which has some very minor woods and a few regular deer. I know you don't have much of a backyard in Spike Lee town, but maybe you have a friend with one or your in-laws on Long Island? Once she got used to sleeping outside with the various animal and bird sounds, she was much more comfortable.
Lastly, the winealcoholbeerwhiskey thought go a long way. A few glasses and a long day of hiking with a good camping meal usually puts us right out.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 8:48 PM on May 25, 2006
There are many great day hikes north along the Hudson. One great one I did with a few couples was Breakneck Ridge just north of Cold Spring on Route 9. The wives were not too keen about camping out, so after a long day of hiking we went to a B&B in Cold Spring. (Something with a Pig in the name.) It was a start.
I have also done with my wife what I do with my kids. Sleep in our back yard which has some very minor woods and a few regular deer. I know you don't have much of a backyard in Spike Lee town, but maybe you have a friend with one or your in-laws on Long Island? Once she got used to sleeping outside with the various animal and bird sounds, she was much more comfortable.
Lastly, the winealcoholbeerwhiskey thought go a long way. A few glasses and a long day of hiking with a good camping meal usually puts us right out.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 8:48 PM on May 25, 2006
Get informed about bears and bring a bear container and bear spray with you and practice until you feel comfortable in the back country.
If it will help, bring a gun. The thing that gives me the greatest piece of mind camping in bear country is a .44 and someone who knows how to use it.
Are there actually sprays or firearms that are truly effective against bears? Are they legal to carry in most outdoor areas?
posted by namespan at 9:31 PM on May 25, 2006
If it will help, bring a gun. The thing that gives me the greatest piece of mind camping in bear country is a .44 and someone who knows how to use it.
Are there actually sprays or firearms that are truly effective against bears? Are they legal to carry in most outdoor areas?
posted by namespan at 9:31 PM on May 25, 2006
Yep. Go to REI and ask for Bear Spray- it's like a giant thing of Mace and comes with a belt harness. It also has a glow in the dark trigger for night use. I have never used on one a bear but I know people who have and say they are very effective. It sprays about 8 feet. The main drawback of bearspray is that if you use it in a confined area, like a tent, you are probably going to blind yourself and not the bear!
A large handgun like a .44 will stop a bear if you hit it right, no problem. Legality depends, obviously they are not legal in National Parks, so ask ahead of time. Warning: if you have to ask this question you don't know enough to carry these guns. Take hunters training, take many classes on safety and shooting etc. before heading out armed!!
Bear spray is a MUCH better choice overall, in large part because you're more likely to carry and use it and it requires pretty much no skill at all.
posted by fshgrl at 9:55 PM on May 25, 2006
A large handgun like a .44 will stop a bear if you hit it right, no problem. Legality depends, obviously they are not legal in National Parks, so ask ahead of time. Warning: if you have to ask this question you don't know enough to carry these guns. Take hunters training, take many classes on safety and shooting etc. before heading out armed!!
Bear spray is a MUCH better choice overall, in large part because you're more likely to carry and use it and it requires pretty much no skill at all.
posted by fshgrl at 9:55 PM on May 25, 2006
The thing that gives me the greatest piece of mind camping in bear country is a .44 and someone who knows how to use it.
I imagine you haven't read Bear Attacks, then?
Bear spray is mere seasoning for an enraged bear. Also, bear spray when the bear is upwind is also bear spray that's going to come right back on you? And where is the bear when he is upwind? Why, right where he can't smell you! In short, bear spray is not a guarantee. (And, btw, if you use it in a confined space there is no "probably" in the "going to blind yourself" meme.)
Bear Bells? That just tells them where dinner is.
Guns and spray are a significant amount of backpacking weight. In my opinion and in my experiences of wilderness backpacking, mainly in the lower BC Rockies, Kootenays, and Coastal Range (all prime black and grizzly territories), there is little need and little point in carrying either of them.
Correct backcountry safety behaviours, on the other hand, are essential. The details of which can be found in most any decent back-country backpacking book. Paranoia about food prep and consumption, food storage, and tent "scent cleanliness" are key, as is appropriate trail awareness.
posted by five fresh fish at 11:10 PM on May 25, 2006
I imagine you haven't read Bear Attacks, then?
Bear spray is mere seasoning for an enraged bear. Also, bear spray when the bear is upwind is also bear spray that's going to come right back on you? And where is the bear when he is upwind? Why, right where he can't smell you! In short, bear spray is not a guarantee. (And, btw, if you use it in a confined space there is no "probably" in the "going to blind yourself" meme.)
Bear Bells? That just tells them where dinner is.
Guns and spray are a significant amount of backpacking weight. In my opinion and in my experiences of wilderness backpacking, mainly in the lower BC Rockies, Kootenays, and Coastal Range (all prime black and grizzly territories), there is little need and little point in carrying either of them.
Correct backcountry safety behaviours, on the other hand, are essential. The details of which can be found in most any decent back-country backpacking book. Paranoia about food prep and consumption, food storage, and tent "scent cleanliness" are key, as is appropriate trail awareness.
posted by five fresh fish at 11:10 PM on May 25, 2006
That's your opinion FFF and one I used to share before I started spending months every year in the backcountry. Nowadays I've run into way too many "problem bears" to expect them to act as wild as they should just about anyplace there aren't strict controls on people.
Mostly I don't carry a gun because they're heavy and inconvenient and I'm lazy and I don't like guns much but if you're scared of wildlife or have specific reason to worry it's comforting to have. Bear spray is multi purpose and I almost always carry it. The question here is how to increase peace of mind, after all.
FWIW I've probably had 20-25 bear encounters and not ever had to do anything other than keep a cool head. That includes having an apparently lonely grizzly cub try to crawl into our tent to snuggle at 3am one night!
posted by fshgrl at 11:39 PM on May 25, 2006
Mostly I don't carry a gun because they're heavy and inconvenient and I'm lazy and I don't like guns much but if you're scared of wildlife or have specific reason to worry it's comforting to have. Bear spray is multi purpose and I almost always carry it. The question here is how to increase peace of mind, after all.
FWIW I've probably had 20-25 bear encounters and not ever had to do anything other than keep a cool head. That includes having an apparently lonely grizzly cub try to crawl into our tent to snuggle at 3am one night!
posted by fshgrl at 11:39 PM on May 25, 2006
Lots of good advice here, but I don't think there's been enough mention of this:
good friends of ours dissolved their marriage in no small part because of the resentment and anger generated by his insistence that his urban wife go camping -- and enjoy it.
If your wife genuinely wants to learn to enjoy it, that's great. But you sound like someone intent on forcing your wife to enjoy it because you do, dismissing her fears as irrational and buying her gear as if it's a done deal. I hope you're willing to accept the possibility that it's something you won't be able to share with her. My first wife loved camping and the outdoors; I'm a city boy. She did that stuff without me, and we both were happier as a result. Marriage doesn't mean you have to share every single experience. (If it did, I'd be forcing my wife to learn Russian so we could read it together.)
posted by languagehat at 7:20 AM on May 26, 2006
good friends of ours dissolved their marriage in no small part because of the resentment and anger generated by his insistence that his urban wife go camping -- and enjoy it.
If your wife genuinely wants to learn to enjoy it, that's great. But you sound like someone intent on forcing your wife to enjoy it because you do, dismissing her fears as irrational and buying her gear as if it's a done deal. I hope you're willing to accept the possibility that it's something you won't be able to share with her. My first wife loved camping and the outdoors; I'm a city boy. She did that stuff without me, and we both were happier as a result. Marriage doesn't mean you have to share every single experience. (If it did, I'd be forcing my wife to learn Russian so we could read it together.)
posted by languagehat at 7:20 AM on May 26, 2006
Following up on a few points about dogs: in most cases, bears and other animals, such as coyotes and food-stealing vermin, will smell the dogs from a mile away and make themselves scarce. By no means was I suggesting that the dog could physically fight off a bear.
Also, those that said they were afraid the dog could "ingest parasites" or get sprayed by a skunk if taken out of its backyard habitat: I'd sure hate to be your dog!
Finally, given all the discussion about bears, guns and mace and all that craziness, it should be noted that bear attacks are decidedly rare. You are far more likely be killed in a car accident on the way to your camping trip than on the camping trip itself. Of course, I understand statistics and irrational fears have no relation to one another.
Happy camping!
posted by M.C. Lo-Carb! at 8:42 AM on May 26, 2006
Also, those that said they were afraid the dog could "ingest parasites" or get sprayed by a skunk if taken out of its backyard habitat: I'd sure hate to be your dog!
Finally, given all the discussion about bears, guns and mace and all that craziness, it should be noted that bear attacks are decidedly rare. You are far more likely be killed in a car accident on the way to your camping trip than on the camping trip itself. Of course, I understand statistics and irrational fears have no relation to one another.
Happy camping!
posted by M.C. Lo-Carb! at 8:42 AM on May 26, 2006
I am similar to your wife in that I grew up on Long Island and then lived in NYC for 18 years, give or take. Then I moved to Seattle, and my then-boyfriend was a major outdoorsy camping type.
I wasn't really scared by camping, mostly just annoyed by the lack of creature comforts like running water. We never really went camping before the end, but in the interim he was easing me in slowly with day hikes and teaching me to kayak. He took it slow. I was nervous at the beginning of these activities, but with each success I felt more confident about the whole thing.
Also, compliment her a lot and tell her she's doing great, even if she only manages 20 feet in the dark. Tell her it was great she tried. I wanted to make my boyfriend happy, wanted to find more things for us to do together, so hearing that sort of thing really helped and made me more enthusiastic about the whole thing.
You could also maybe bribe her a bit. Bring along a present or a surprise for her on each trip. She's doing this to please you (at least, until she actually enjoys it herself), so it might be nice to have some small happy thing for her in the middle of her uncomfortableness.
Don't ever tell her her fears are irrational. And when you go this summer, make sure she knows that you won't be mad at her if you do end up at the motel at 1AM. I'd feel awfully pressured right now if I were your wife.
posted by astruc at 9:25 AM on May 26, 2006
I wasn't really scared by camping, mostly just annoyed by the lack of creature comforts like running water. We never really went camping before the end, but in the interim he was easing me in slowly with day hikes and teaching me to kayak. He took it slow. I was nervous at the beginning of these activities, but with each success I felt more confident about the whole thing.
Also, compliment her a lot and tell her she's doing great, even if she only manages 20 feet in the dark. Tell her it was great she tried. I wanted to make my boyfriend happy, wanted to find more things for us to do together, so hearing that sort of thing really helped and made me more enthusiastic about the whole thing.
You could also maybe bribe her a bit. Bring along a present or a surprise for her on each trip. She's doing this to please you (at least, until she actually enjoys it herself), so it might be nice to have some small happy thing for her in the middle of her uncomfortableness.
Don't ever tell her her fears are irrational. And when you go this summer, make sure she knows that you won't be mad at her if you do end up at the motel at 1AM. I'd feel awfully pressured right now if I were your wife.
posted by astruc at 9:25 AM on May 26, 2006
Response by poster: Thank you for all of your replies. There are some great ideas here.
My wife is not afraid of camping, nor am I "pressuring" her. She truly wants to learn how and is motivated enough that she is willing to face her fears. My questions were about specific ways to help ease her into being comfortable in the woods in the dark. They were not about our relationship, our marriage or issues relating to it. Any assumptions you have made are exactly that: assumptions.
My current thinking is that we will start with some day hikes up near Harriman, and then progress to a kayak/canoe trip over at the Delaware Water Gap area. We're also going to try and go on some of the 1 and 2 day bike trips that are organized by the NYC bike groups. Then we'll try the rustic cabin idea and/or car camping and then finally an overnight hike and/or overnight camping trip.
She has expressed wanting to hike down the Grand Canyon to the river, which I thnk we might try at the end of the summer. But I've warned her it is *not* an easy hike back up and requires an overnight camp.
posted by camworld at 10:19 AM on May 26, 2006
My wife is not afraid of camping, nor am I "pressuring" her. She truly wants to learn how and is motivated enough that she is willing to face her fears. My questions were about specific ways to help ease her into being comfortable in the woods in the dark. They were not about our relationship, our marriage or issues relating to it. Any assumptions you have made are exactly that: assumptions.
My current thinking is that we will start with some day hikes up near Harriman, and then progress to a kayak/canoe trip over at the Delaware Water Gap area. We're also going to try and go on some of the 1 and 2 day bike trips that are organized by the NYC bike groups. Then we'll try the rustic cabin idea and/or car camping and then finally an overnight hike and/or overnight camping trip.
She has expressed wanting to hike down the Grand Canyon to the river, which I thnk we might try at the end of the summer. But I've warned her it is *not* an easy hike back up and requires an overnight camp.
posted by camworld at 10:19 AM on May 26, 2006
As a camp counselor, I got a lot of mileage out of jokes. [rustle rustle rustle] "OMG, what was that!?!" "Probably just our waitor." Etc. Also, I second the "lots of praise" thing. Even being the really sporty type, learning to snowboard made me grouchy. Falling down sucks. All in all, mood management could be key. :)
Another obvious comment -- gear is key. My mistake when taking someone new backpacking was not making sure they were going to be warm and dry enough.
I also thought the desert or ocean idea was smart. Fewer animals, less nighttime rustling. Maybe something down toward Virginia would be more pastoral?
posted by salvia at 11:22 PM on May 26, 2006
Another obvious comment -- gear is key. My mistake when taking someone new backpacking was not making sure they were going to be warm and dry enough.
I also thought the desert or ocean idea was smart. Fewer animals, less nighttime rustling. Maybe something down toward Virginia would be more pastoral?
posted by salvia at 11:22 PM on May 26, 2006
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by ShawnString at 1:33 PM on May 25, 2006