How do I fire someone without losing my mind over it?
March 18, 2025 5:29 PM Subscribe
I need to fire my assistant. I’ve already tried to fire her twice and both times, she’s convinced me to give her another chance. How do I firmly and kindly let her go?
I have an assistant who is not right for the job. She is a lovely person. She is friendly and kind and really tries to do well. However, she is not able to do this job. She has struggled with every task I’ve given her. Her job is to help me, and not only is she NOT helping me, but she’s actually making my job harder. This cant go on.
After her first week with me, I knew it wouldn’t work out. I told her that it wasn’t a good fit and pointed out her struggles with every task but she convinced me that I hadn’t given her a fair trial. So I agreed to give her more time. Now it’s been almost 7 weeks. The situation did not improve. Last week I tried AGAIN to fire her. I sat her down and told her I’m so sorry but this job is not right for her, she’s not catching on, each task is a struggle, etc. And AGAIN, she fought back and said she was still learning, she’s getting better, give her another chance, etc. And again I felt bad and caved.
My friends think I’m crazy and are like, just tell her to GTFO! The problem is, I have a real thing about rejecting people. It makes me feel like a terrible person. I worry that she is going to get hostile, say something devastating, etc. We work in a small town and I will definitely run into her. I am already pre-emptively agonizing over the awkwardness. I realize this is my hang-up and I should just get over it but... easier said than done.
Ok the question is two fold: 1. How do I fire this woman definitively with no possibility of her convincing/manipulating me to give her yet another chance? And then 2. How do I deal with the awkwardness of endlessly running into her in town? The anxiety over this is really getting to me.
Before anyone asks, NO we do not have an HR department and NO I do not have anyone else in my company who can fire her. I hired her – I should have the guts to fire her myself. Somehow.
I have an assistant who is not right for the job. She is a lovely person. She is friendly and kind and really tries to do well. However, she is not able to do this job. She has struggled with every task I’ve given her. Her job is to help me, and not only is she NOT helping me, but she’s actually making my job harder. This cant go on.
After her first week with me, I knew it wouldn’t work out. I told her that it wasn’t a good fit and pointed out her struggles with every task but she convinced me that I hadn’t given her a fair trial. So I agreed to give her more time. Now it’s been almost 7 weeks. The situation did not improve. Last week I tried AGAIN to fire her. I sat her down and told her I’m so sorry but this job is not right for her, she’s not catching on, each task is a struggle, etc. And AGAIN, she fought back and said she was still learning, she’s getting better, give her another chance, etc. And again I felt bad and caved.
My friends think I’m crazy and are like, just tell her to GTFO! The problem is, I have a real thing about rejecting people. It makes me feel like a terrible person. I worry that she is going to get hostile, say something devastating, etc. We work in a small town and I will definitely run into her. I am already pre-emptively agonizing over the awkwardness. I realize this is my hang-up and I should just get over it but... easier said than done.
Ok the question is two fold: 1. How do I fire this woman definitively with no possibility of her convincing/manipulating me to give her yet another chance? And then 2. How do I deal with the awkwardness of endlessly running into her in town? The anxiety over this is really getting to me.
Before anyone asks, NO we do not have an HR department and NO I do not have anyone else in my company who can fire her. I hired her – I should have the guts to fire her myself. Somehow.
Maybe at some point (not in this conversation) tell her "Look, I don't think you're a bad person. I'm sure there are plenty of things you'd be great at. But this job just isn't your thing, is all."
Then if you see her in town, go in with the assumption that she found the thing she IS good at, and you knew she would or is just about to. (But she probably won't want to see you either, and mutual avoidance works pretty well most of the time)
posted by ctmf at 5:47 PM on March 18 [8 favorites]
Then if you see her in town, go in with the assumption that she found the thing she IS good at, and you knew she would or is just about to. (But she probably won't want to see you either, and mutual avoidance works pretty well most of the time)
posted by ctmf at 5:47 PM on March 18 [8 favorites]
So first, reframe this in your mind. Someone who stays in a job that they can’t do is going to end up in a bad mental place (or you are, but really most people want to do a good job.) You can be kind and free her for a really good job for her, but you can’t necessarily be nice and termination-free.
So prepare her termination letter. Get a cheque or arrangement for severance if you can do that, and also if you can do that, be generous. It is worth some pay to know you behaved well.
Then you meet with her and you don’t get into reasons or arguing. “Susie, I’m sorry but this is not working out and today is your last day. This job isn’t for you but I know you are tenacious and that there’s a job out there for you. Here’s your letter and a payment of x and you’ll receive your last pay on date. You can leave your key on the desk. I know this is probably hard for you so I’ll go now, and if you have any questions just email me.”
And then you walk out. It feels bad but there really is nothing else to say.
When you run into her you just treat her kindly but grey rock it. Don't get into lengthy conversations, don’t go ask her how she’s doing (at least not for a while), do say hi.
posted by warriorqueen at 5:51 PM on March 18 [28 favorites]
So prepare her termination letter. Get a cheque or arrangement for severance if you can do that, and also if you can do that, be generous. It is worth some pay to know you behaved well.
Then you meet with her and you don’t get into reasons or arguing. “Susie, I’m sorry but this is not working out and today is your last day. This job isn’t for you but I know you are tenacious and that there’s a job out there for you. Here’s your letter and a payment of x and you’ll receive your last pay on date. You can leave your key on the desk. I know this is probably hard for you so I’ll go now, and if you have any questions just email me.”
And then you walk out. It feels bad but there really is nothing else to say.
When you run into her you just treat her kindly but grey rock it. Don't get into lengthy conversations, don’t go ask her how she’s doing (at least not for a while), do say hi.
posted by warriorqueen at 5:51 PM on March 18 [28 favorites]
She will probably cry, many people do. Hand her a box of tissues (which you should have handy) and do NOT fill the silence with talking.
posted by ctmf at 5:59 PM on March 18 [7 favorites]
posted by ctmf at 5:59 PM on March 18 [7 favorites]
Do you have any ideas about what she _is_ good at? Maybe you could point out some of her stronger traits, and suggest that there must be a company that can use those skills, but that her skills are suited for the tasks _you_ need her to do. I do not advocate for _you_ trying to find positions that she would be good at, just pointing out some positive things while telling her she hasn't improved enough to be kept on.
posted by TimHare at 6:15 PM on March 18 [1 favorite]
posted by TimHare at 6:15 PM on March 18 [1 favorite]
Best answer: Call her in. Have her sit down.
It would be best if these were two chairs at 45/90 degrees to each other, or seats next to each other at a small round table. Don't sit across a desk from each other. You want someone to be able to break eye contact naturally without making them feel like they're avoiding the person sitting directly across from them.
= = =
[set the tone and be explicit about what's happening]
Susie, today is going to be your last day working here. I know this isn't the news you wanted to hear, and it's not the news I wanted to share.
[make it clear it's about fit between person and place, not just about person]
You are a remarkable, talented person, but this job just isn't the right fit for you. I have seen how hard you've worked to try and be successful, and I can only imagine how hard it's been for you to keep working at it even though it obviously hasn't been working out. I don't want you to keep going through that.
[be clear how you're taking care of them]
I'm going to keep you on the payroll through X / give you a severance of Y weeks. If I can be of any help as you figure out and land your next job, please just ask.
[explicit next steps that get her out of the workplace, and away from colleagues]
I'm happy to walk with you back to you desk if you want to pack up your personal belongings. If you'd rather just take off right now, I completely understand, and I'm happy to have you come back before or after working hours tomorrow or the next day to grab your things then. Whichever you'd prefer.
= = =
Yes to having tissues.
No to standing up and immediately leaving her alone in the room.
I wouldn't get into helping her figure out her next job, because that just leads to a conversation about doing that job for you, and you need to break the professional relationship.
If she has questions, it's okay to say you'll need to get back to her via email - don't let her stand around while you look something up that you don't know off the top of your head.
posted by NotMyselfRightNow at 6:22 PM on March 18 [41 favorites]
It would be best if these were two chairs at 45/90 degrees to each other, or seats next to each other at a small round table. Don't sit across a desk from each other. You want someone to be able to break eye contact naturally without making them feel like they're avoiding the person sitting directly across from them.
= = =
[set the tone and be explicit about what's happening]
Susie, today is going to be your last day working here. I know this isn't the news you wanted to hear, and it's not the news I wanted to share.
[make it clear it's about fit between person and place, not just about person]
You are a remarkable, talented person, but this job just isn't the right fit for you. I have seen how hard you've worked to try and be successful, and I can only imagine how hard it's been for you to keep working at it even though it obviously hasn't been working out. I don't want you to keep going through that.
[be clear how you're taking care of them]
I'm going to keep you on the payroll through X / give you a severance of Y weeks. If I can be of any help as you figure out and land your next job, please just ask.
[explicit next steps that get her out of the workplace, and away from colleagues]
I'm happy to walk with you back to you desk if you want to pack up your personal belongings. If you'd rather just take off right now, I completely understand, and I'm happy to have you come back before or after working hours tomorrow or the next day to grab your things then. Whichever you'd prefer.
= = =
Yes to having tissues.
No to standing up and immediately leaving her alone in the room.
I wouldn't get into helping her figure out her next job, because that just leads to a conversation about doing that job for you, and you need to break the professional relationship.
If she has questions, it's okay to say you'll need to get back to her via email - don't let her stand around while you look something up that you don't know off the top of your head.
posted by NotMyselfRightNow at 6:22 PM on March 18 [41 favorites]
And AGAIN, she fought back and said she was still learning, she’s getting better, give her another chance, etc.
Just in case - is she getting better? Is there any significant chance that in a month or two she'd be okay and might eventually be great?
I'm on the record here as believing that sometimes people can really be the wrong fit for a job and just never improve meaningfully enough, and also that sometimes continuing to employ them can do significant harm to a company. But you don't say if she's improved at all, if she's gotten meaningful training instead of being expected to come in knowing everything, or if she's been given clear definitions of the standards she's failing to meet or any sort of deadline for improvement. I think the approach to take would depend somewhat on the answers.
One thing I think regardless is that she should get either decent severance pay or a decent notice-of-termination period.
posted by trig at 6:29 PM on March 18 [1 favorite]
Just in case - is she getting better? Is there any significant chance that in a month or two she'd be okay and might eventually be great?
I'm on the record here as believing that sometimes people can really be the wrong fit for a job and just never improve meaningfully enough, and also that sometimes continuing to employ them can do significant harm to a company. But you don't say if she's improved at all, if she's gotten meaningful training instead of being expected to come in knowing everything, or if she's been given clear definitions of the standards she's failing to meet or any sort of deadline for improvement. I think the approach to take would depend somewhat on the answers.
One thing I think regardless is that she should get either decent severance pay or a decent notice-of-termination period.
posted by trig at 6:29 PM on March 18 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: There is a fundatmental disconnect where she does not listen to what I'm saying and cannot follow directions. She works extremely slowly and we are a super fast paced office. I could go on listing issues but... no, there is no sign or chance of improvement.
I am really concerned about doing it in person. Is it better to tell her as soon as she gets in, so then she just drove all the way in just to turn around and leave? Or at the end of the day, where she just worked all day thinking everything is fine and THEN I pull the rug out from under her?
We share a small office. There is nowhere else for either of us to go, other than out the door.
She is not going to cry. She is going to tell me to go F myself.
posted by silverstatue at 6:35 PM on March 18
I am really concerned about doing it in person. Is it better to tell her as soon as she gets in, so then she just drove all the way in just to turn around and leave? Or at the end of the day, where she just worked all day thinking everything is fine and THEN I pull the rug out from under her?
We share a small office. There is nowhere else for either of us to go, other than out the door.
She is not going to cry. She is going to tell me to go F myself.
posted by silverstatue at 6:35 PM on March 18
I wouldn't do it *first thing*, first thing, but relatively soon in the morning. And in NotMyselfRightNow's excellent script tell her she can take the rest of the day off (even if she's not terminated immediately). Nobody wants to hang around co-workers after news like that. End of the day just makes her work all day for no reason and your day will be ruined dreading it all day.
She is going to tell me to go F myself.
Yeah that's fine, no response necessary, remain all business and don't get into an argument. But it could be both that AND cry. You never know, I have had NO success trying to predict who will and who won't (male and female both)
posted by ctmf at 6:45 PM on March 18 [5 favorites]
She is going to tell me to go F myself.
Yeah that's fine, no response necessary, remain all business and don't get into an argument. But it could be both that AND cry. You never know, I have had NO success trying to predict who will and who won't (male and female both)
posted by ctmf at 6:45 PM on March 18 [5 favorites]
Google the employment laws in your state. You may have to give her her final paycheck on the spot. And yeah, I’d be as generous as possible with additional severance.
posted by BlahLaLa at 6:49 PM on March 18 [4 favorites]
posted by BlahLaLa at 6:49 PM on March 18 [4 favorites]
It's good to be thoughtful, but don't overthink it. Start of day or end of day, it doesn't really matter.
posted by NotMyselfRightNow at 6:49 PM on March 18
posted by NotMyselfRightNow at 6:49 PM on March 18
Also we usually have someone knowing what's about to happen stand by nearby outside the door in case there's any physical intervention/911 calling necessary. Very rare, but you can't be too careful.
posted by ctmf at 6:51 PM on March 18 [8 favorites]
posted by ctmf at 6:51 PM on March 18 [8 favorites]
Best answer: “This situation isn’t working for me. I need to try something else.”
Note that it is about you. This isn’t a performance review, there is nothing that can be done differently, there’s nothing she can change, because this situation isn't working for you. Period.
She’ll probably still tell you to fuck off, but making it about incompatibility will let you (in the long run) see her around town without being the person who humiliated her by ramming home her failings.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 7:03 PM on March 18 [7 favorites]
Note that it is about you. This isn’t a performance review, there is nothing that can be done differently, there’s nothing she can change, because this situation isn't working for you. Period.
She’ll probably still tell you to fuck off, but making it about incompatibility will let you (in the long run) see her around town without being the person who humiliated her by ramming home her failings.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 7:03 PM on March 18 [7 favorites]
Best answer: It’s going to suck. Period. You seem to be squeezing blood from a stone trying to minimize the pain of going through it. What if you stopped pouring energy into shaving down the discomfort of it one millimeter at a time? Can you let that go and just embrace the suck instead? Just let it be painful, do it, and be done with it. Plan for what you’ll do afterward to celebrate being free of this monkey on your neck. Take a day off next week to go to the spa. Schedule an emergency therapy session for immediately after the firing. Take your favorite coworker to lunch and bitch about it. Whatever it takes. It will be worth it to rip off the band aid! Good luck.
posted by seemoorglass at 7:06 PM on March 18 [7 favorites]
posted by seemoorglass at 7:06 PM on March 18 [7 favorites]
Do not give any reasons. Each reason provides a way for her to argue. Simply state "It is not a good fit and today is your last day." Or "I have come to the decision to terminate you from the company."
Be clear. Being wishy washy is actually giving her false hope and is cruel. To use an analogy of dating, it is kinder to break up clearly than to give someone a list of reasons why you dislike them, but then relent and keep dating and having sex with them, then try again to break up, repeating this cycle several times. The wishy washy approach is more disrespectful and wears down their self esteem because it forces them to plead for your acceptance.
posted by sandwich at 7:18 PM on March 18 [9 favorites]
Be clear. Being wishy washy is actually giving her false hope and is cruel. To use an analogy of dating, it is kinder to break up clearly than to give someone a list of reasons why you dislike them, but then relent and keep dating and having sex with them, then try again to break up, repeating this cycle several times. The wishy washy approach is more disrespectful and wears down their self esteem because it forces them to plead for your acceptance.
posted by sandwich at 7:18 PM on March 18 [9 favorites]
She is going to tell me to go F myself.
She’ll react however she’ll react. If she gets rude you ignore that, the same way you’ll ignore any attempts on her part to argue or plead. It’s a done deal. Your only mission is to communicate that and get her out of the door.
There is no way to fire somebody that will result in them liking you better. So don’t twist yourself into a pretzel trying to avoid that.
Make sure there is nothing important on your own agenda later that day. You’ll need a bit of space afterwards yourself.
posted by koahiatamadl at 7:21 PM on March 18 [9 favorites]
She’ll react however she’ll react. If she gets rude you ignore that, the same way you’ll ignore any attempts on her part to argue or plead. It’s a done deal. Your only mission is to communicate that and get her out of the door.
There is no way to fire somebody that will result in them liking you better. So don’t twist yourself into a pretzel trying to avoid that.
Make sure there is nothing important on your own agenda later that day. You’ll need a bit of space afterwards yourself.
posted by koahiatamadl at 7:21 PM on March 18 [9 favorites]
Best answer: She’s convinced you twice to please let her stay
And you suspect she’ll tell you to F yourself
She sounds… like a really interesting character study of ego / entitlement / manipulation. If you adopt a detached mindset you can curiously witness the crazy machinations of the ego as it unsuccessfully goes through all the attempts to get what it wants while simultaneously trying to cope with ego collapse. Like terminator 2 when the terminator finally dies. It’s going to be an amazing display. Watch it like a curious scientist.
So you sit her down and keep it brief. “I’ve given it much thought and this isn’t working out and I’m letting you go. Today is your final day.” And then watch it all display and then repeat “today’s your last day please collect your things” or whatever.
Also: you’re doing great and I admire you for facing this directly. I agree you hired, you will fire, and you will make it through this difficult day. It will also heal you of some deep people pleasing complexes. The way to “get over” your issues is often through them. This is a gift in disguise.
posted by St. Peepsburg at 7:30 PM on March 18 [17 favorites]
And you suspect she’ll tell you to F yourself
She sounds… like a really interesting character study of ego / entitlement / manipulation. If you adopt a detached mindset you can curiously witness the crazy machinations of the ego as it unsuccessfully goes through all the attempts to get what it wants while simultaneously trying to cope with ego collapse. Like terminator 2 when the terminator finally dies. It’s going to be an amazing display. Watch it like a curious scientist.
So you sit her down and keep it brief. “I’ve given it much thought and this isn’t working out and I’m letting you go. Today is your final day.” And then watch it all display and then repeat “today’s your last day please collect your things” or whatever.
Also: you’re doing great and I admire you for facing this directly. I agree you hired, you will fire, and you will make it through this difficult day. It will also heal you of some deep people pleasing complexes. The way to “get over” your issues is often through them. This is a gift in disguise.
posted by St. Peepsburg at 7:30 PM on March 18 [17 favorites]
No to standing up and immediately leaving her alone in the room.
I had a stool thrown at me (by a grown man) so I am sensitive on this topic - it’s not always a good idea to hang around. It depends on what support you have.
posted by warriorqueen at 7:52 PM on March 18 [4 favorites]
I had a stool thrown at me (by a grown man) so I am sensitive on this topic - it’s not always a good idea to hang around. It depends on what support you have.
posted by warriorqueen at 7:52 PM on March 18 [4 favorites]
I am really surprised that I'm the first one here who is going to tell you to go look at the Ask A Manager advice column. Here is a search of her columns about how to fire someone. The third question is called "How to fire someone for mediocre work when they're trying hard", but you should read at least a few of them before you dive into this task. This column is consistently some of the best and most thoughtful advice I've read about how to be at work.
posted by Vatnesine at 7:57 PM on March 18 [13 favorites]
posted by Vatnesine at 7:57 PM on March 18 [13 favorites]
Best answer: Hey, you are a nice person and you hate conflict and this person doesn't seem to mind conflict. some people don't feel like they're going to vomit at the idea of conflict. Some people even get energized by it in a funny way.
You have to make this situation into a scenario where you, as her BOSS , her EMPLOYER, do not feel the need to respond, react or engage with her setting up a conflict.
What you have to do first is not a script with her, it's a script with yourself.
1. I'm not responsible for her feelings. She's allowed to feel how she feels when she gets canned. No one likes being canned. She might be mad or sad. Or be a person who turns sad into mad. So what? She can go be mad. I don't have to engage with her expression of anger.
2. I'm not responsible any more for telling her WHY she's getting fired because I've already told her a hundred times, both in two sit-downs and every day when she fails at her tasks. All I need to make her aware of now is: Well, the extra provisionary period is over and you will not be continuing here.
3. Let her know whether you are willing to write her a recommendation letter based on her good qualities. If you feel you can do this it dis-incentivizes her to yell at you. Buf EVEN IF SHE YELLS AT YOU you don't have to listen or stay for that.
4. The main script you need to tell yourself is that it's HER fault that she's getting fired, that you were paying her to do a job and she did not do the job. And you are not going to pay someone to not do a job.
Then you say what you say and then you leave the room.
Also unless it stresses you out, watch the scene in Ted Lasso where Keely fires her pal. The pal goes into a total meltdown. It's funny. Maybe it will desensitize you and make you realize it's objectively a hard thing to do but you can do it.
Don't let yourself think now about running into her in town. But when it happens, remind yourself "Oh god, there is that person I paid who did not do what I asked her to do. Thank god she's gone and I now have a great new assistant." If she glares at you think "And she is a glaring person, ugh good riddance'
All this is coming from me not firing people but finally breaking up with someone who had convinced me to give him another chance too many times. It's kind of similar.
Especially the part where somehow she has this brand as "nice" but actually you experience her as mean and aggressive and intimidating. It's not the trait of a nice person to say F you to a former boss when you run into them after being fired.
TLD Her feelings are not your issue.
posted by ponie at 8:13 PM on March 18 [5 favorites]
You have to make this situation into a scenario where you, as her BOSS , her EMPLOYER, do not feel the need to respond, react or engage with her setting up a conflict.
What you have to do first is not a script with her, it's a script with yourself.
1. I'm not responsible for her feelings. She's allowed to feel how she feels when she gets canned. No one likes being canned. She might be mad or sad. Or be a person who turns sad into mad. So what? She can go be mad. I don't have to engage with her expression of anger.
2. I'm not responsible any more for telling her WHY she's getting fired because I've already told her a hundred times, both in two sit-downs and every day when she fails at her tasks. All I need to make her aware of now is: Well, the extra provisionary period is over and you will not be continuing here.
3. Let her know whether you are willing to write her a recommendation letter based on her good qualities. If you feel you can do this it dis-incentivizes her to yell at you. Buf EVEN IF SHE YELLS AT YOU you don't have to listen or stay for that.
4. The main script you need to tell yourself is that it's HER fault that she's getting fired, that you were paying her to do a job and she did not do the job. And you are not going to pay someone to not do a job.
Then you say what you say and then you leave the room.
Also unless it stresses you out, watch the scene in Ted Lasso where Keely fires her pal. The pal goes into a total meltdown. It's funny. Maybe it will desensitize you and make you realize it's objectively a hard thing to do but you can do it.
Don't let yourself think now about running into her in town. But when it happens, remind yourself "Oh god, there is that person I paid who did not do what I asked her to do. Thank god she's gone and I now have a great new assistant." If she glares at you think "And she is a glaring person, ugh good riddance'
All this is coming from me not firing people but finally breaking up with someone who had convinced me to give him another chance too many times. It's kind of similar.
Especially the part where somehow she has this brand as "nice" but actually you experience her as mean and aggressive and intimidating. It's not the trait of a nice person to say F you to a former boss when you run into them after being fired.
TLD Her feelings are not your issue.
posted by ponie at 8:13 PM on March 18 [5 favorites]
If she's going to get angry, you may want to have an assistant change passwords on accounts and/or secure any work materials in the office while your meeting is taking place.
It sounds heartless but I have seen people try to do some nasty stuff on their way out the door.
posted by JoeZydeco at 8:15 PM on March 18 [6 favorites]
It sounds heartless but I have seen people try to do some nasty stuff on their way out the door.
posted by JoeZydeco at 8:15 PM on March 18 [6 favorites]
Best answer: Just to respond to the emotional side of it for you...
1) It is 100% okay to have a script for the termination meeting so that you don't have to think of anything new on the spot. Sit down and write out what you will say for the primary message and then a few responses to predictable reactions. Lead with empathy. "This is a difficult situation, and I'm sorry that it's turned out like this." "I understand you're upset." Practice these sentences and have them at the ready on your computer monitor or a nearby notepad. Hopefully knowing exactly what to say will calm some of your anxiety in the moment.
2) Remind yourself that you're just doing your job. No one likes to fire people. Most people don't even like doing work at all. Firing someone as part of your job really sucks, and many jobs suck, many tasks suck. You have to do what you have to do because this is the nature of work. This is not anything you'd say to her, but I've found it helpful to settle my own guilt. I am just doing my job here. It's how the world goes 'round.
3) Classic CBT question for yourself as you prepare to have the meeting and/or worry about running into her out in public. What's the worst that could happen? She might say a mean thing. She might curse or be loud or try to embarrass you by making a scene. You will live through all those scenarios. Spend some time thinking about how any of these painful moments will inevitably pass. There will be an other side, and it'll come pretty quickly. You can get there.
posted by luzdeluna at 8:30 PM on March 18 [3 favorites]
1) It is 100% okay to have a script for the termination meeting so that you don't have to think of anything new on the spot. Sit down and write out what you will say for the primary message and then a few responses to predictable reactions. Lead with empathy. "This is a difficult situation, and I'm sorry that it's turned out like this." "I understand you're upset." Practice these sentences and have them at the ready on your computer monitor or a nearby notepad. Hopefully knowing exactly what to say will calm some of your anxiety in the moment.
2) Remind yourself that you're just doing your job. No one likes to fire people. Most people don't even like doing work at all. Firing someone as part of your job really sucks, and many jobs suck, many tasks suck. You have to do what you have to do because this is the nature of work. This is not anything you'd say to her, but I've found it helpful to settle my own guilt. I am just doing my job here. It's how the world goes 'round.
3) Classic CBT question for yourself as you prepare to have the meeting and/or worry about running into her out in public. What's the worst that could happen? She might say a mean thing. She might curse or be loud or try to embarrass you by making a scene. You will live through all those scenarios. Spend some time thinking about how any of these painful moments will inevitably pass. There will be an other side, and it'll come pretty quickly. You can get there.
posted by luzdeluna at 8:30 PM on March 18 [3 favorites]
you can be a good person and a bad boss, just as she can be a good person and a bad assistant. and you are. the result of your pretended helplessness will be that she won’t believe you this time, so you are going to have to repeat yourself (not have a conversation, just repeat yourself) more times than you will probably enjoy. but if you don’t have a security person to escort her out, you will just have to do that.
do it in the morning, pay her for the full day. you are going to need the rest of the day to recover even if she doesn’t.
someone who is this good at refusing to be fired will have no problem, like NO problem, walking out of your office and into another job. very possibly the same day. you are not ruining her life, you have reason to be embarrassed about how this has gone but no reason to be ashamed. you can even be a reference for her if you feel like it / she begs for it, it’s not a big deal because if her next job is a normal one her new employer will have an easy time firing her, should they need to,
posted by queenofbithynia at 8:59 PM on March 18 [7 favorites]
do it in the morning, pay her for the full day. you are going to need the rest of the day to recover even if she doesn’t.
someone who is this good at refusing to be fired will have no problem, like NO problem, walking out of your office and into another job. very possibly the same day. you are not ruining her life, you have reason to be embarrassed about how this has gone but no reason to be ashamed. you can even be a reference for her if you feel like it / she begs for it, it’s not a big deal because if her next job is a normal one her new employer will have an easy time firing her, should they need to,
posted by queenofbithynia at 8:59 PM on March 18 [7 favorites]
You have given this person multiple chances. More than enough to determine that she is not capable and not a good fit.
I would simply tell them that this is not working out for you. I am letting you go. I am certainly willing to give you a recommendation. Then I would tell then whatever hr type stuff you have such as "you will be paid through the end of the wwwk/month/pay period, etc. I need your key and /or card.
If they ask for another another chance, I would just say that that does not work for me.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 2:59 AM on March 19 [3 favorites]
I would simply tell them that this is not working out for you. I am letting you go. I am certainly willing to give you a recommendation. Then I would tell then whatever hr type stuff you have such as "you will be paid through the end of the wwwk/month/pay period, etc. I need your key and /or card.
If they ask for another another chance, I would just say that that does not work for me.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 2:59 AM on March 19 [3 favorites]
Best answer: Don't include her in your plans or discuss it with her, as she won't cooperate, so nothing is gained by collaborating with her on her dismissal.
Do up the paperwork necessary and file it. File the appropriate paperwork with the government. Hand her a written statement. Inform her that as of Friday 5 PM she is to no longer come into the office, but if she wishes to leave right away she may do so and will still be paid until the end of Friday or whatever plan you have made. Allow her to abandon the written notice of dismissal. She doesn't have to read it. Let it fall on the floor if she tries to thrust it back at you, or put it back in her work area/mail box if she puts it back on your desk. You will also e-mail her a notice of dismissal stating that you have given her a written notice also.
When she attempts to engage you, explaining herself and why she deserves more chances, do not reply and not argue and do not engage. Say nothing at all. OR ask her to step off the business premises and take a break until she is capable of dropping the subject.
Do not apologize. If you are still sorry you have to lay her off, don't be. Unfortunately she has not kept faith with you and she is not a safe person for you to be around.
Plan a few statements to repeat at her woodenly if you must talk to her about it, but don't bring them out if you can help it: "You have not improved in seven weeks," and "You are creating more work for me than you are helping me," and "I will never get anything out of having you as an assistant." If you must respond to her just repeat those things. "You have not improved in seven weeks," "You have not improved in seven weeks," "You have not improved in seven weeks."
If she accuses you of grey rocking her or not listening or not caring, simply reply, "Yes." Keep in mind that she is not listening to you so it is completely fair to not listen to her. In fact it would be unfair to you to listen to her.
When the arguing that she can learn the work starts, stand up, point behind yourself. Take a step away. Shake your head. Look away and don't look back at her. Force a frown onto your face. DON'T try to make her comfortable by using respectful and caring body language. Think about how uncomfortable she is making YOU and how she is doing it because she knows she can manipulate you by doing it.
If she bursts into tears remove yourself from the room. She needs to be alone to gain control of her emotions, so comforting her would be counter productive. It would only make her cry harder, and would be unkind as it would give her false hope.
As for the anxiety about running into her... that's why she is able to manipulate you. But at this point it is a done deal. She is not going to be working for you in future. She is going to be upset that you fired her. You are going to run into her in town. You are going to have to live with that, the same like you have to figure out how to live with a new health problem or a new bad neighbour or some other little negative change in your life. There IS no happy ending. But at least you won't have to see her in the office every day.
Come up with strategies for dealing with the awkwardness when you run into her at the store and in the park. Plan to nod and smile sympathetically when you see her but to keep a distance - to save HER embarrassment, of course, since it is so awkward being fired and you don't want to make her feel more ashamed. When talking to other people in community try something like "She was such a nice person, but she was completely unable to learn the job." Do not enlarge on it. You want to come out as a nice person yourself.
You have actually hired someone who is a leech and a parasite, and who has good leech and parasite skills. It's a great pity, and while those are useful survival skills, you will be much much safer ending contact as much as you can from someone who doesn't listen to you, and who finds your weaknesses and manipulates you.
There is a particular strategy that people who are parasites engage in where they impose, and then, just when a deadline for their eviction or for their firing is about to hit, they throw a small sop at the person they have been exploiting. For example if they borrow $600 from you that they were supposed to return by the end of April, they pay $50 on April 29th, leaving a balance of $550 still due, and then get outraged that you sent the debt to collections. They honestly feel that your perfidy exculpates them from paying the rest of the debt and makes you the bad guy. There is a good chance that she is trying to throw sops like this at you, stringing you along.
Your person is probably using the same strategy, but still in the obsequious very nice behaviour stage, promising to pay the debt (learn the job) long after it was due, while there is no future in which they can or will actually live up to the commitment they made.
Think of her behaviour as passive aggressive hostility. Yes, she probably is just desperate for work. But there is no doubt that her desperation is making her see you as someone to exploit and disrespect.
I know of more than one person who says that the worst day of their life was the day that they had to fire other people. The reason this is hard is because it IS hard, and because you are a good, empathetic person. Your situation truly, truly sucks.
posted by Jane the Brown at 5:08 AM on March 19 [5 favorites]
Do up the paperwork necessary and file it. File the appropriate paperwork with the government. Hand her a written statement. Inform her that as of Friday 5 PM she is to no longer come into the office, but if she wishes to leave right away she may do so and will still be paid until the end of Friday or whatever plan you have made. Allow her to abandon the written notice of dismissal. She doesn't have to read it. Let it fall on the floor if she tries to thrust it back at you, or put it back in her work area/mail box if she puts it back on your desk. You will also e-mail her a notice of dismissal stating that you have given her a written notice also.
When she attempts to engage you, explaining herself and why she deserves more chances, do not reply and not argue and do not engage. Say nothing at all. OR ask her to step off the business premises and take a break until she is capable of dropping the subject.
Do not apologize. If you are still sorry you have to lay her off, don't be. Unfortunately she has not kept faith with you and she is not a safe person for you to be around.
Plan a few statements to repeat at her woodenly if you must talk to her about it, but don't bring them out if you can help it: "You have not improved in seven weeks," and "You are creating more work for me than you are helping me," and "I will never get anything out of having you as an assistant." If you must respond to her just repeat those things. "You have not improved in seven weeks," "You have not improved in seven weeks," "You have not improved in seven weeks."
If she accuses you of grey rocking her or not listening or not caring, simply reply, "Yes." Keep in mind that she is not listening to you so it is completely fair to not listen to her. In fact it would be unfair to you to listen to her.
When the arguing that she can learn the work starts, stand up, point behind yourself. Take a step away. Shake your head. Look away and don't look back at her. Force a frown onto your face. DON'T try to make her comfortable by using respectful and caring body language. Think about how uncomfortable she is making YOU and how she is doing it because she knows she can manipulate you by doing it.
If she bursts into tears remove yourself from the room. She needs to be alone to gain control of her emotions, so comforting her would be counter productive. It would only make her cry harder, and would be unkind as it would give her false hope.
As for the anxiety about running into her... that's why she is able to manipulate you. But at this point it is a done deal. She is not going to be working for you in future. She is going to be upset that you fired her. You are going to run into her in town. You are going to have to live with that, the same like you have to figure out how to live with a new health problem or a new bad neighbour or some other little negative change in your life. There IS no happy ending. But at least you won't have to see her in the office every day.
Come up with strategies for dealing with the awkwardness when you run into her at the store and in the park. Plan to nod and smile sympathetically when you see her but to keep a distance - to save HER embarrassment, of course, since it is so awkward being fired and you don't want to make her feel more ashamed. When talking to other people in community try something like "She was such a nice person, but she was completely unable to learn the job." Do not enlarge on it. You want to come out as a nice person yourself.
You have actually hired someone who is a leech and a parasite, and who has good leech and parasite skills. It's a great pity, and while those are useful survival skills, you will be much much safer ending contact as much as you can from someone who doesn't listen to you, and who finds your weaknesses and manipulates you.
There is a particular strategy that people who are parasites engage in where they impose, and then, just when a deadline for their eviction or for their firing is about to hit, they throw a small sop at the person they have been exploiting. For example if they borrow $600 from you that they were supposed to return by the end of April, they pay $50 on April 29th, leaving a balance of $550 still due, and then get outraged that you sent the debt to collections. They honestly feel that your perfidy exculpates them from paying the rest of the debt and makes you the bad guy. There is a good chance that she is trying to throw sops like this at you, stringing you along.
Your person is probably using the same strategy, but still in the obsequious very nice behaviour stage, promising to pay the debt (learn the job) long after it was due, while there is no future in which they can or will actually live up to the commitment they made.
Think of her behaviour as passive aggressive hostility. Yes, she probably is just desperate for work. But there is no doubt that her desperation is making her see you as someone to exploit and disrespect.
I know of more than one person who says that the worst day of their life was the day that they had to fire other people. The reason this is hard is because it IS hard, and because you are a good, empathetic person. Your situation truly, truly sucks.
posted by Jane the Brown at 5:08 AM on March 19 [5 favorites]
In situations where I have made a decision but I expect I am going to get pushback or negotiation, I learned to start the discussion with "I have decided that ____." Then, if I need to be a broken record, I can say "I hear where you are coming from and I appreciate your perspective, but I have decided."
My construction in your case would be like "I have decided that your employment here is going to end now, because after our previous discussions I didn't see the improvement I'd hoped to see. Today will be your last day of work, however I will pay you _____ (like any additional days, through the end of the pay period if salary, whatever, if applicable)".
Sometimes people try to pushback and negotiate in bad faith where they were just trying to pressure you to back off. Other times, people really aren't sure whether this is a negotiation or whether you are conveying a decision. I have found at work, with my spouse and with my kid, that being extremely clear about whether I am having a discussion to reach a decision jointly or whether I am informing them of my decision, has helped a lot.
posted by fennario at 6:22 AM on March 19 [6 favorites]
My construction in your case would be like "I have decided that your employment here is going to end now, because after our previous discussions I didn't see the improvement I'd hoped to see. Today will be your last day of work, however I will pay you _____ (like any additional days, through the end of the pay period if salary, whatever, if applicable)".
Sometimes people try to pushback and negotiate in bad faith where they were just trying to pressure you to back off. Other times, people really aren't sure whether this is a negotiation or whether you are conveying a decision. I have found at work, with my spouse and with my kid, that being extremely clear about whether I am having a discussion to reach a decision jointly or whether I am informing them of my decision, has helped a lot.
posted by fennario at 6:22 AM on March 19 [6 favorites]
I would never fire someone without a third person in the room, especially if there is no HR and no formal process for documenting failed improvement as the reason for termination. You need a witness just to be an impartial witness to the actual conversation. I have found this also tends to dampen any hostility from the terminated person.
posted by archimago at 6:34 AM on March 19 [12 favorites]
posted by archimago at 6:34 AM on March 19 [12 favorites]
People like to have choices. This advice originated from how to deal with toddlers, but I find it helpful in a wide range of situations. After your pick of the clear messages suggested above, offer a choice about whether to leave right then or at the end of the day, or about something else where she likely has a preference but it’s ultimately inconsequential to you and the company which choice she picks. Then when she tries to bargain again, “I’m sorry, but that’s not one of the options. The only choices I can offer you are…” and repeat the choice you already gave her. Repeat as needed.
posted by daisyace at 6:59 AM on March 19 [1 favorite]
posted by daisyace at 6:59 AM on March 19 [1 favorite]
If it helps, her inability to take direction and listen to you during the work day is literally the same thing she's doing here -- refusing to listen to you when you tell her she's fired. Don't make your goal that she doesn't argue with you or that she understands your reasoning. If you could accomplish that, you wouldn't need to fire her. Keep it short and to the point (the point being "Today's your last day", not, "Here's my reasoning").
posted by lapis at 8:08 AM on March 19 [5 favorites]
posted by lapis at 8:08 AM on March 19 [5 favorites]
Whatever verbal script you go with, please omit any and all variations on “I’m sorry, but…”
No, you’re not sorry; none of us would be! “I’m sorry” is unnecessarily soft and cushy, and that’s the opposite of what you need to be.
posted by BostonTerrier at 8:16 AM on March 19 [1 favorite]
No, you’re not sorry; none of us would be! “I’m sorry” is unnecessarily soft and cushy, and that’s the opposite of what you need to be.
posted by BostonTerrier at 8:16 AM on March 19 [1 favorite]
Lots of excellent advice here. I am rooting for you. This is the right thing to do. If it is not too upsetting, I know I’d like to know how it went for you. Best of luck!
posted by I_Love_Bananas at 9:29 AM on March 19 [1 favorite]
posted by I_Love_Bananas at 9:29 AM on March 19 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Thank you so much everyone! This is all great advice and I wish I could mark them all best answer. I was determined to fire her today.... and then she called out sick. Sigh.
I will implement it all as soon as she is back in the office, and will post an update.
posted by silverstatue at 9:43 AM on March 19 [9 favorites]
I will implement it all as soon as she is back in the office, and will post an update.
posted by silverstatue at 9:43 AM on March 19 [9 favorites]
Both of these things are true: it’s the right thing to do and it will suck. You can’t do anything to get the reaction you want from her; you just have to stick to your decision and let the conversation suck. And then it will be over!
One thing that would help me not lose my nerve (aside from scripts) is being absolutely certain how much MORE it would suck if you kept her on.
To that end, I’d recommend making an actual list of things that would suck more than one uncomfortable conversation. I bet you can think of dozens. For example, if you let her talk you into staying:
-you won’t have a proper assistant
-you will feel like a wimp for letting her control you AGAIN
-you are depriving your future competent assistant of a job
-you are teaching your incompetent assistant that she can get her way through wheedling and that wheedling is better than competence
-you will have to fix the work she messes up/neglects
-you would just be deferring the inevitable and it will be more stressful next time once she will have even more ammo
And on and on!
posted by kapers at 11:38 AM on March 19 [2 favorites]
One thing that would help me not lose my nerve (aside from scripts) is being absolutely certain how much MORE it would suck if you kept her on.
To that end, I’d recommend making an actual list of things that would suck more than one uncomfortable conversation. I bet you can think of dozens. For example, if you let her talk you into staying:
-you won’t have a proper assistant
-you will feel like a wimp for letting her control you AGAIN
-you are depriving your future competent assistant of a job
-you are teaching your incompetent assistant that she can get her way through wheedling and that wheedling is better than competence
-you will have to fix the work she messes up/neglects
-you would just be deferring the inevitable and it will be more stressful next time once she will have even more ammo
And on and on!
posted by kapers at 11:38 AM on March 19 [2 favorites]
One thing stands out to me from your answers and follow-ups:
She is a lovely person. She is friendly and kind
and yet
She is going to tell me to go F myself.
These can't both be true. The friendly and kind people I know, if getting laid off by a boss who is trying to be fair and has given them multiple second chances, would not tell that boss to go F themselves. They might be very upset. They might even hold a lot of anger towards their boss for one reason or another. But they would not shout profanity in their face.
So, either your anxiety is making you imagine the worst-case scenario (in which case you should remind yourself that she is a kind person and will do her best to react gracefully), OR she is not actually as friendly and kind as she acts on the surface (in which case you should feel less guilty about firing her).
posted by mekily at 1:13 PM on March 19 [5 favorites]
She is a lovely person. She is friendly and kind
and yet
She is going to tell me to go F myself.
These can't both be true. The friendly and kind people I know, if getting laid off by a boss who is trying to be fair and has given them multiple second chances, would not tell that boss to go F themselves. They might be very upset. They might even hold a lot of anger towards their boss for one reason or another. But they would not shout profanity in their face.
So, either your anxiety is making you imagine the worst-case scenario (in which case you should remind yourself that she is a kind person and will do her best to react gracefully), OR she is not actually as friendly and kind as she acts on the surface (in which case you should feel less guilty about firing her).
posted by mekily at 1:13 PM on March 19 [5 favorites]
I was determined to fire her today.... and then she called out sick. Sigh.
Somehow this doesn’t surprise me in the slightest. A part of her knows what is going down and all of this is her to avoid facing herself. Good luck to you, you’ve got this.
posted by St. Peepsburg at 3:04 PM on March 20 [2 favorites]
Somehow this doesn’t surprise me in the slightest. A part of her knows what is going down and all of this is her to avoid facing herself. Good luck to you, you’ve got this.
posted by St. Peepsburg at 3:04 PM on March 20 [2 favorites]
Great advice above, except I don’t think you should offer to write her a reference nor should you pay her severance. Severance after only 7 weeks of work is ridiculous, and severance is typically for layoffs, not firing for being bad at your job. And references are not for folks who manipulate you and who you suspect will tell you to go F yourself. She sounds pretty horrible and I’d make sure someone else is in the room with you when you tell her, stick to your guns, and get it over with asap.
posted by whitelily at 10:32 PM on March 20 [2 favorites]
posted by whitelily at 10:32 PM on March 20 [2 favorites]
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posted by ctmf at 5:43 PM on March 18 [3 favorites]