Rampant inequities, boss won't do anything
February 21, 2025 5:41 PM Subscribe
In short, I've been working at an organization for a few months. I've noticed that many staff come in late and leave early, which is a clear departure from our policies. I've approached my boss (our director) about this multiple times, and he has said he agrees it is a problem and will address it, but he doesn't. As the only one coming in for my scheduled hours, I am being assigned more and more work. I am also a middle-management position myself and would be willing to address this with our staff but am not getting the go-ahead from my boss and am worried that, even if I do address it, it will not have any impact as long as the director seems fine with how things are. Any advice would be appreciated! Please read below for more details. Thanks!
Longer version: I've been at my new office for a few months. I'm in a middle-management position, supervised by the director of our organization. Our office works in a hybrid modality (3 days remote, 2 days in-person), with an explicit policy that staff must come in for the same 2 in-person days every week, which we can all view on a shared calendar.
However, even from the first week, I noticed that many staff were coming in an hour or more late and leaving an hour or more early (i.e. they're working a 6-hour or less day, despite an explicit policy of an 8-hour work day). I asked the director about this and noted that it seemed like an equity issue (that is, if the explicit policy is that we all do 40 hours total/16 in-person, but some staff know they can get away with working far fewer hours, that unfairly impacts those who are not aware of or don't feel right about taking advantage of this unwritten rule). I asked if he wanted to simply change the policy. He said no, he wanted to keep the policy as it was, agreed this was a problem, and said that he would address it with the staff in one of our upcoming staff meetings. But he didn't. So, I brought it up with him again and offered to be the one to address it in our next staff meeting. To this, he said that, as the director, he should be the one to address it in our next staff meeting. But again, he didn't.
Having been in the office a bit longer now, I am now aware of several staff who regularly come in not just 1 hour but 2+ hours late and leave 2+ hours early (as in, they are working a 4-hour day or less on a regular basis). I also started to notice that some staff cannot be reached during the day and openly talk about running personal errands, etc., without taking leave. Also, one of our staff (notably, the only man other than our director) has not entered his in-person days in our shared calendar. I have brought this up explicitly with our director multiple times (noting the gender issue), and he again agreed it was a problem but has done nothing to address the situation.
Meanwhile, as someone used to a more traditional office environment, I have continued to come in for my scheduled hours, and as a result, my work is piling up. I am being assigned more and more projects because I get them done (the director has even told me explicitly that he is giving me more to do because he can count on me to do it). I work every evening and for at least a few hours every weekend. I have let my boss know in professional terms that this is unsustainable. He expresses concern but does nothing to improve the situation and has continued to give me more to do.
Notably, I also supervise some staff, a couple of whom come in late and leave early. I have addressed this with them (not in a punitive way, just in a "Let's have a conversation to clarify what the expectations are..." way), but they continue to come in late and leave early, and I suspect it's because they know that the director is happy to look the other way.
Lastly, despite all of my venting here, I love the actual work I do through this organization, and there are very, very few positions like this out there (I'd have to move to a different state). So, I'd like to address the problem and see if I can improve things here, rather than start looking for another job.
In sum, I'm in an awkward position. Although I'm not enthusiastic to do it, I am willing to be the one to remind folks of the policies/expectations if I have to, as I see this as a significant equity issue. But my boss isn't giving me the go-ahead on that. Also, I worry that if I'm the one to say something about this to our staff, it won't have any impact anyway if the staff are receiving a different (implicit) message from our director (through his inaction, indifference, etc.). Also, admittedly, I am worried that being the "bad guy" will have significant interpersonal costs for me, as someone new to the organization (and also a younger woman). So, I don't really want to take on that cost unless I know it will lead to real change in our work culture.
If anyone has advice or guidance on how to navigate this situation, it would be so appreciated! Honestly, I am overworked and exhausted, so I am probably not thinking of all of the available options/avenues, so no recommendation is "too obvious." Thank you!
Longer version: I've been at my new office for a few months. I'm in a middle-management position, supervised by the director of our organization. Our office works in a hybrid modality (3 days remote, 2 days in-person), with an explicit policy that staff must come in for the same 2 in-person days every week, which we can all view on a shared calendar.
However, even from the first week, I noticed that many staff were coming in an hour or more late and leaving an hour or more early (i.e. they're working a 6-hour or less day, despite an explicit policy of an 8-hour work day). I asked the director about this and noted that it seemed like an equity issue (that is, if the explicit policy is that we all do 40 hours total/16 in-person, but some staff know they can get away with working far fewer hours, that unfairly impacts those who are not aware of or don't feel right about taking advantage of this unwritten rule). I asked if he wanted to simply change the policy. He said no, he wanted to keep the policy as it was, agreed this was a problem, and said that he would address it with the staff in one of our upcoming staff meetings. But he didn't. So, I brought it up with him again and offered to be the one to address it in our next staff meeting. To this, he said that, as the director, he should be the one to address it in our next staff meeting. But again, he didn't.
Having been in the office a bit longer now, I am now aware of several staff who regularly come in not just 1 hour but 2+ hours late and leave 2+ hours early (as in, they are working a 4-hour day or less on a regular basis). I also started to notice that some staff cannot be reached during the day and openly talk about running personal errands, etc., without taking leave. Also, one of our staff (notably, the only man other than our director) has not entered his in-person days in our shared calendar. I have brought this up explicitly with our director multiple times (noting the gender issue), and he again agreed it was a problem but has done nothing to address the situation.
Meanwhile, as someone used to a more traditional office environment, I have continued to come in for my scheduled hours, and as a result, my work is piling up. I am being assigned more and more projects because I get them done (the director has even told me explicitly that he is giving me more to do because he can count on me to do it). I work every evening and for at least a few hours every weekend. I have let my boss know in professional terms that this is unsustainable. He expresses concern but does nothing to improve the situation and has continued to give me more to do.
Notably, I also supervise some staff, a couple of whom come in late and leave early. I have addressed this with them (not in a punitive way, just in a "Let's have a conversation to clarify what the expectations are..." way), but they continue to come in late and leave early, and I suspect it's because they know that the director is happy to look the other way.
Lastly, despite all of my venting here, I love the actual work I do through this organization, and there are very, very few positions like this out there (I'd have to move to a different state). So, I'd like to address the problem and see if I can improve things here, rather than start looking for another job.
In sum, I'm in an awkward position. Although I'm not enthusiastic to do it, I am willing to be the one to remind folks of the policies/expectations if I have to, as I see this as a significant equity issue. But my boss isn't giving me the go-ahead on that. Also, I worry that if I'm the one to say something about this to our staff, it won't have any impact anyway if the staff are receiving a different (implicit) message from our director (through his inaction, indifference, etc.). Also, admittedly, I am worried that being the "bad guy" will have significant interpersonal costs for me, as someone new to the organization (and also a younger woman). So, I don't really want to take on that cost unless I know it will lead to real change in our work culture.
If anyone has advice or guidance on how to navigate this situation, it would be so appreciated! Honestly, I am overworked and exhausted, so I am probably not thinking of all of the available options/avenues, so no recommendation is "too obvious." Thank you!
like the ice lady says, 'Let it goooooo'. The director is clearly not going to address the issue, for whatever reason, and you continuing to bring it up is probably going to become an issue.
Adapt to the culture, even if it feels weird and wrong. Push back on additional assignments for workflow/bandwidth reasons. "I appreciate your faith in my abilities but I cannot take on additional projects at this time. Perhaps $4hr/daycolleague has the bandwidth to take this on?".
posted by ApathyGirl at 5:53 PM on February 21 [14 favorites]
Adapt to the culture, even if it feels weird and wrong. Push back on additional assignments for workflow/bandwidth reasons. "I appreciate your faith in my abilities but I cannot take on additional projects at this time. Perhaps $4hr/daycolleague has the bandwidth to take this on?".
posted by ApathyGirl at 5:53 PM on February 21 [14 favorites]
What other people do with their schedule is a red-herring. The real issue is that you need to find a way to set your own boundaries about your work load. It usually boils down to two choices: actually saying No to assignments or “saying no” by becoming more comfortable about not getting things done.
I’ll just add: you have no real knowledge of why people are on different schedules and unless they are your direct reports (and sometimes even then if you have an HR dept) you have no right to know. A company may have a policy about schedule but if an individual has chemotherapy multiple times a week or cares for an elderly person or has children they need to pick up or something along those lines, that is really their business with their individual bosses. In addition, your director may know that unofficial flextime is a huge perk to some valued employees and is not willingly to risk losing them over enforcing this policy.
Comparison is the thief of joy.
posted by CMcG at 5:56 PM on February 21 [39 favorites]
I’ll just add: you have no real knowledge of why people are on different schedules and unless they are your direct reports (and sometimes even then if you have an HR dept) you have no right to know. A company may have a policy about schedule but if an individual has chemotherapy multiple times a week or cares for an elderly person or has children they need to pick up or something along those lines, that is really their business with their individual bosses. In addition, your director may know that unofficial flextime is a huge perk to some valued employees and is not willingly to risk losing them over enforcing this policy.
Comparison is the thief of joy.
posted by CMcG at 5:56 PM on February 21 [39 favorites]
Response by poster: @sandwich I hear you on that, but without going into too much detail, the kind of work I do is quite public. I am being asked to give a number of presentations, for example. So, if I go home early, I won't be prepared, and frankly, it will just be really embarrassing. I am also being assigned to projects working with collaborators from other offices where folks are online for the full work day, so I can't just peace out when they are depending on me.
posted by knifeyspoony at 5:57 PM on February 21
posted by knifeyspoony at 5:57 PM on February 21
Response by poster: I'm not trying to be argumentative here, but I do know - The director has told me that none of the other staff are taking leave of any form (I didn't ask; he offered this information). They are simply not coming in for their scheduled hours. He has himself said it's a problem. Anyway, I respect differences of opinion here, but I want to emphasize that I would never under any circumstances questions someone's right to take family leave, sick leave, etc. I take that extremely seriously. But these folks are not taking leave.
posted by knifeyspoony at 6:01 PM on February 21
posted by knifeyspoony at 6:01 PM on February 21
Are they meeting their deadlines and productivity measures or whatever Business Targets y'all have? Maybe they are working some of that time at home when they leave early. Or maybe they are just twice as effective on 4hrs of burst work than 8 forced hours, half of which is dicking around.
Anyway, focus on lack of work output from these people if it's a problem, and if it's not, don't worry about how they are getting it done.
posted by SaltySalticid at 6:12 PM on February 21 [6 favorites]
Anyway, focus on lack of work output from these people if it's a problem, and if it's not, don't worry about how they are getting it done.
posted by SaltySalticid at 6:12 PM on February 21 [6 favorites]
Response by poster: @SaltySalticid No, they are not meeting deadlines. I am being assigned to take on projects, presentations, etc. originally assigned to my colleagues. I am also being assigned far more of the requests coming in (we have a system where we can see incoming requests and who is assigned what). One of our newest staff members (hired after me) is now in a similar situation and is also now working way over 40 hours a week. The colleagues who get there late/leave early don't work after getting home; I know because I have friendly relationships with many of them, and they've been open about it with me. They say they don't understand why our director is giving me and our newest staff member so much to do. :/
posted by knifeyspoony at 6:16 PM on February 21
posted by knifeyspoony at 6:16 PM on February 21
Response by poster: And again, I had asked if he simply wanted to change the policy so that we all had more flexibility in our work hours (which I would 110% support), but he said no; he wanted to enforce our current hours.
posted by knifeyspoony at 6:21 PM on February 21
posted by knifeyspoony at 6:21 PM on February 21
Best answer: I'm a die-hard reader of Ask a Manager, and in cases like this she always says you have to stop complaining about everyone else and just give your boss an ultimatum re: your own work. "I can now do X, Y and Z but I cannot also take on A, B, C that is being pushed on to me. I have 40 hours a week to give you; how do you want me to use them?" And then you need to stop working beyond 40 hours, and/or on A, B and C.
Also, I mean, it's clear that your boss isn't going to do anything. Do you want to job hunt? Do you want to ask for a really big raise to compensate you for doing X, Y Z and A, B, C? Those are other avenues open to you.
posted by BlahLaLa at 6:24 PM on February 21 [55 favorites]
Also, I mean, it's clear that your boss isn't going to do anything. Do you want to job hunt? Do you want to ask for a really big raise to compensate you for doing X, Y Z and A, B, C? Those are other avenues open to you.
posted by BlahLaLa at 6:24 PM on February 21 [55 favorites]
Adding: It's you who's making it extremely easy for your boss not to do anything, because you're covering the extra work. (Or you and that other new person.) You both can stop doing this.
posted by BlahLaLa at 6:26 PM on February 21 [28 favorites]
posted by BlahLaLa at 6:26 PM on February 21 [28 favorites]
Best answer: 100% stop bringing up other people's hours. Doing so once was fairly gutsy but probably ok. Twice was too much. Twice plus multiple times about the guy not entering his hours on the shared calendar was way too much. You will be seen as a problem, even though you're only trying to get real problems addressed.
But that doesn't mean you should ignore the problem that's actually your prerogative to address, which is "I work every evening and for at least a few hours every weekend." When you are routinely given work that you can't do within the workday that you're willing to do and paid to do, speak up firmly about that. You say, "I am being asked to give a number of presentations, for example." Ok, when you're assigned one that doesn't fit into the workday you're willing to do and paid to do, say something like, "I don't have the work hours available to prepare for that presentation as well as the others I've been assigned. Which would you like me to handle, and which can you reallocate to someone who doesn't have as much on their plate?"
Yes, even then it's not fair that you have to work a full workday when your colleagues don't. But whether or not they work a full workday shouldn't really determine whether you're willing to. That's the job, you want to keep the job, you're not up for slacking off like they do, and you're not being backed up in getting them to stop slacking off. So, work the full workday without regard for how long they work, and don't routinely accept work that requires your nights and weekends.
posted by daisyace at 6:45 PM on February 21 [30 favorites]
But that doesn't mean you should ignore the problem that's actually your prerogative to address, which is "I work every evening and for at least a few hours every weekend." When you are routinely given work that you can't do within the workday that you're willing to do and paid to do, speak up firmly about that. You say, "I am being asked to give a number of presentations, for example." Ok, when you're assigned one that doesn't fit into the workday you're willing to do and paid to do, say something like, "I don't have the work hours available to prepare for that presentation as well as the others I've been assigned. Which would you like me to handle, and which can you reallocate to someone who doesn't have as much on their plate?"
Yes, even then it's not fair that you have to work a full workday when your colleagues don't. But whether or not they work a full workday shouldn't really determine whether you're willing to. That's the job, you want to keep the job, you're not up for slacking off like they do, and you're not being backed up in getting them to stop slacking off. So, work the full workday without regard for how long they work, and don't routinely accept work that requires your nights and weekends.
posted by daisyace at 6:45 PM on February 21 [30 favorites]
Response by poster: Yeah, I think that's good advice re: the ultimatum. I do sometimes say no (and also think that's good advice), though sometimes my boss says I just need to do it, and sorry about the long hours. So, ultimatum might be the necessary next step.
posted by knifeyspoony at 6:46 PM on February 21 [4 favorites]
posted by knifeyspoony at 6:46 PM on February 21 [4 favorites]
As I tell my kid all the time, you can only control yourself. Theoretically if you are in a middle management position you were supposed to have some authority to manage other people's behavior, but you admit you haven't been given the authority to manage this behavior. Therefore the behavior you have the capacity and authority to manage is your own and it's your responsibility to do so.
I understand being responsible person who takes your job seriously and so falling into the mentality that, well, the work needs to be done, and others aren't doing it therefore it is falling on you. But you are making it clear here that it exceeds your boundaries and willingness to work in terms of hours and stress. Your first responsibility is to yourself to manage and communicate your own boundaries, and complaining about other people's behaviors at this point is no longer an appropriate substitute.
posted by fennario at 6:46 PM on February 21 [2 favorites]
I understand being responsible person who takes your job seriously and so falling into the mentality that, well, the work needs to be done, and others aren't doing it therefore it is falling on you. But you are making it clear here that it exceeds your boundaries and willingness to work in terms of hours and stress. Your first responsibility is to yourself to manage and communicate your own boundaries, and complaining about other people's behaviors at this point is no longer an appropriate substitute.
posted by fennario at 6:46 PM on February 21 [2 favorites]
I have a few questions. One, you manage people but you cannot compel them to come in on time and leave at the bell? Exactly what authority do you have? Two, there does appear to be a work inequity, although I am not sure that amount of time in office or logged in from home is the only measure needed to make that determination. I wonder about the pay scale. Is everyone paid the same at their level? How is the pay compared to the rest of the industry? Maybe there is a real lifestyle tradeoff offered by your organization in exchange for less pay? Three, what would be the consequences to you if you did not take on the additional work or did not finish something on time? Four, do you have any idea what the office culture was pre-covid?
You took the job knowing your hours and pay and presumably were ok with it. While I agree you are getting dumped on, it is not really relevant. If I am being asked to work outside the scope for which I was hired, I would either push back on the extra work or ask for additional pay.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 6:51 PM on February 21 [1 favorite]
You took the job knowing your hours and pay and presumably were ok with it. While I agree you are getting dumped on, it is not really relevant. If I am being asked to work outside the scope for which I was hired, I would either push back on the extra work or ask for additional pay.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 6:51 PM on February 21 [1 favorite]
...what I'm mostly hearing is "If there are inequities, you need to look the other way. Even if it's tied to gender, oh well. If you're being exploited by your boss, your boss isn't the problem... So, are we just not holding managers accountable for any of this anymore?
It's not that he's not the problem -- he absolutely is. He should be held accountable. But pragmatically, you said you want to keep the job. So, you don't have an avenue for solving that problem, and you're not the one who can keep him accountable. If you wanted to go over his head to try to get him held accountable, or to lawyer up to address sex discrimination, you might get somewhere. But it's very unlikely that you'd enjoy a congenial working relationship in your existing job if you go a route like that. So you are right in principle, but you are not in the place to do much about it. I don't think anyone's saying he's not the problem, or he shouldn't be accountable, or inequities are fine. They're saying that since you want to keep your job, your pragmatic options are limited.
posted by daisyace at 6:59 PM on February 21 [4 favorites]
It's not that he's not the problem -- he absolutely is. He should be held accountable. But pragmatically, you said you want to keep the job. So, you don't have an avenue for solving that problem, and you're not the one who can keep him accountable. If you wanted to go over his head to try to get him held accountable, or to lawyer up to address sex discrimination, you might get somewhere. But it's very unlikely that you'd enjoy a congenial working relationship in your existing job if you go a route like that. So you are right in principle, but you are not in the place to do much about it. I don't think anyone's saying he's not the problem, or he shouldn't be accountable, or inequities are fine. They're saying that since you want to keep your job, your pragmatic options are limited.
posted by daisyace at 6:59 PM on February 21 [4 favorites]
Can you delegate any of your responsibilities to the people you supervise?
posted by aincandenza at 7:02 PM on February 21
posted by aincandenza at 7:02 PM on February 21
Mod note: Hi knifeyspoony, one of the MetaFilter Mods here.
First welcome and thanks for joining us! Second, AskMetafilter is a bit more strict in its format, where the asker poses the question and then steps back and lets the answers come in. So it's less a back and forth conversation with answerers and more of a watch and listen for the advice.
One or two responses is fine, but much more than that is frowned upon in most cases. No harm in what's already transpired, just try to keep that in mind going forward. If you have any other questions or concerns, feel free to reach out to us via the Contact Us form or feel free to post them in MetaTalk.
Take care!
posted by Brandon Blatcher (staff) at 7:06 PM on February 21 [1 favorite]
First welcome and thanks for joining us! Second, AskMetafilter is a bit more strict in its format, where the asker poses the question and then steps back and lets the answers come in. So it's less a back and forth conversation with answerers and more of a watch and listen for the advice.
One or two responses is fine, but much more than that is frowned upon in most cases. No harm in what's already transpired, just try to keep that in mind going forward. If you have any other questions or concerns, feel free to reach out to us via the Contact Us form or feel free to post them in MetaTalk.
Take care!
posted by Brandon Blatcher (staff) at 7:06 PM on February 21 [1 favorite]
This is a fairness issue, not an equity issue. An equity issue is when a class of people is denied services, access, opportunities, or other things that another class of people routinely has access to due to some systemic or institutional structure.
If your workplace only gave raises and promotions to people who golfed with bosses after work, that would be denying people with responsibilities outside of work (caregivers, people with two jobs, differently abled people) the opportunity for more income, more job advancement, etc.
Maybe if your workplace were saying only people with families can come in late, that would be an equity issue. But since all these latecomers seem to be getting paid for not working, and remain in the boss's good graces, presumably they have as much opportunity as people who work for 40 hours. And the opportunity to come in late and leave early seems systemically available to the people who work 40 hours a week.
This is a fairness issue, and it's not fair, but you can easily make it fair by adjusting your behavior, to your benefit, rather than trying to adjust the behavior of an entire group to their (possible) detriment.
posted by cocoagirl at 7:50 PM on February 21 [10 favorites]
If your workplace only gave raises and promotions to people who golfed with bosses after work, that would be denying people with responsibilities outside of work (caregivers, people with two jobs, differently abled people) the opportunity for more income, more job advancement, etc.
Maybe if your workplace were saying only people with families can come in late, that would be an equity issue. But since all these latecomers seem to be getting paid for not working, and remain in the boss's good graces, presumably they have as much opportunity as people who work for 40 hours. And the opportunity to come in late and leave early seems systemically available to the people who work 40 hours a week.
This is a fairness issue, and it's not fair, but you can easily make it fair by adjusting your behavior, to your benefit, rather than trying to adjust the behavior of an entire group to their (possible) detriment.
posted by cocoagirl at 7:50 PM on February 21 [10 favorites]
As a manager, I can you that I'm generally unimpressed when staff spend their time monitoring and reporting on what other people are doing, rather than focusing on themselves. You don't know what arrangements or accommodations are being made for these other people, and frankly it is none of your business. Even if they are total slackers, that is not your business either. Your business is your workload - if it is unmanageable then address that.
posted by Toddles at 7:52 PM on February 21 [10 favorites]
posted by Toddles at 7:52 PM on February 21 [10 favorites]
I love the actual work I do through this organization...
I am overworked and exhausted, so I am probably not thinking of all of the available options/avenues, so no recommendation is "too obvious."
...I am also being assigned to projects working with collaborators from other offices where folks are online for the full work day, so I can't just peace out when they are depending on me
schedule specific (flex?) meeting times for collabs; you do not have to be always available even/especially if they're always online. if they're depending on you, they want you to stay well. please take care of yourself
☮️
posted by HearHere at 12:02 AM on February 22 [3 favorites]
I am overworked and exhausted, so I am probably not thinking of all of the available options/avenues, so no recommendation is "too obvious."
...I am also being assigned to projects working with collaborators from other offices where folks are online for the full work day, so I can't just peace out when they are depending on me
schedule specific (flex?) meeting times for collabs; you do not have to be always available even/especially if they're always online. if they're depending on you, they want you to stay well. please take care of yourself
☮️
posted by HearHere at 12:02 AM on February 22 [3 favorites]
I wonder if the director is preparing to do a layoff of the workers who only work 4 hours. Some of his actions are in line with that possibility. He's already directing more work towards you, to reduce eventual disruption if the others weren't there. He isn't bothering to address their issues because there's no point if they'll be gone soon. He tells you that their attendance is a problem and that he's looking into fixing it, but you don't see him taking any overt actions.
Separately, you seem frustrated about the fairness aspect, because you're expecting to be bound to the same rules. What if you consider that they may have a different implicit contract (or explicit) with the company? One person may be the only one at the organization with a specific skill set which is imperative for the work. Another one might be the best at calming down angry partners or customers. A third one may have connections to donors. There may be an implicit contract that their skill makes their salary worthwhile even if they spend half the time that others do.
For example, you may have board members that spend less than 1 hour per week on the company. You accept this because you think of them as being bound to different rules. Try to think of your co-workers as following their own rules.
posted by sandwich at 2:20 AM on February 22
Separately, you seem frustrated about the fairness aspect, because you're expecting to be bound to the same rules. What if you consider that they may have a different implicit contract (or explicit) with the company? One person may be the only one at the organization with a specific skill set which is imperative for the work. Another one might be the best at calming down angry partners or customers. A third one may have connections to donors. There may be an implicit contract that their skill makes their salary worthwhile even if they spend half the time that others do.
For example, you may have board members that spend less than 1 hour per week on the company. You accept this because you think of them as being bound to different rules. Try to think of your co-workers as following their own rules.
posted by sandwich at 2:20 AM on February 22
We hear that you love the work that you do and are new in an organization and passionate for people to do well. These are good qualities.
* You need to set boundaries around your work hours and time.
* You need to delegate work to people who report to you and set deadlines with them and document when those deadlines aren't met.
* You need to release this and change your point of view.
You are not listening to what you are being told. Absolutely it is likely that your boss really sucks at this and is spineless. You are probably correct.
You have done the work to try to fix this and it is now time for you to redirect your passions for change toward your own behavior.
Also: Likely you will have his job soon and then you can really crack the whip in the way that I think you would enjoy.
posted by RJ Reynolds at 3:44 AM on February 22 [1 favorite]
* You need to set boundaries around your work hours and time.
* You need to delegate work to people who report to you and set deadlines with them and document when those deadlines aren't met.
* You need to release this and change your point of view.
You are not listening to what you are being told. Absolutely it is likely that your boss really sucks at this and is spineless. You are probably correct.
You have done the work to try to fix this and it is now time for you to redirect your passions for change toward your own behavior.
Also: Likely you will have his job soon and then you can really crack the whip in the way that I think you would enjoy.
posted by RJ Reynolds at 3:44 AM on February 22 [1 favorite]
I recall an identical question a few weeks ago on Ask a Manager and the advice was the same as here.
You seem to have no real power in this organization and no support from upper management in holding your own reports accountable. That's frustrating and I'd find it hard to cope but when you're working extra hours you might not gain more respect or gratitude but rather a reputation of someone people can pile more work on.
Don't be surprised when one of the slackers gets promoted over you. If you don't want that to happen be more strategic and less reactive.
posted by M. at 6:52 AM on February 22 [2 favorites]
You seem to have no real power in this organization and no support from upper management in holding your own reports accountable. That's frustrating and I'd find it hard to cope but when you're working extra hours you might not gain more respect or gratitude but rather a reputation of someone people can pile more work on.
Don't be surprised when one of the slackers gets promoted over you. If you don't want that to happen be more strategic and less reactive.
posted by M. at 6:52 AM on February 22 [2 favorites]
I read this as your director being completely conflict-averse, and passive-aggressively using your willingness to go the extra mile to try to nudge you toward either conforming to the org's de facto norms or get burnt out and leave.
I expect you'll find that he knows that his org is functioning well enough not to get him fired despite widespread blatant violations of the official policy line on flexible work, is not the slightest bit motivated to rock that boat, and really wishes you'd stop rocking it as well. He's agreeing that the policy violations you've been bringing to his attention are a problem, but his lack of action on them shows that his actual problem is that you keep on bringing them to his attention.
He knows what's going on, he knew it well before you even joined the org, and by keeping on telling him you're basically accusing him of being the lazy sod he actually is. Nobody likes being accused, especially when they're actually doing exactly what they're accused of.
Work expands to fill the time available, so in your shoes I'd be cutting back my time available until he stopped assigning me unfair amounts of work. If every week you were to arrive five minutes later and leave five minutes earlier than you did the previous week, you should fairly soon arrive at a loosely stable equilibrium that runs completely counter to official policy but which nothing will ever be done to change for as long as this director keeps his position.
Sounds to me like many of your colleagues are already doing exactly this.
posted by flabdablet at 7:35 AM on February 22 [1 favorite]
I expect you'll find that he knows that his org is functioning well enough not to get him fired despite widespread blatant violations of the official policy line on flexible work, is not the slightest bit motivated to rock that boat, and really wishes you'd stop rocking it as well. He's agreeing that the policy violations you've been bringing to his attention are a problem, but his lack of action on them shows that his actual problem is that you keep on bringing them to his attention.
He knows what's going on, he knew it well before you even joined the org, and by keeping on telling him you're basically accusing him of being the lazy sod he actually is. Nobody likes being accused, especially when they're actually doing exactly what they're accused of.
Work expands to fill the time available, so in your shoes I'd be cutting back my time available until he stopped assigning me unfair amounts of work. If every week you were to arrive five minutes later and leave five minutes earlier than you did the previous week, you should fairly soon arrive at a loosely stable equilibrium that runs completely counter to official policy but which nothing will ever be done to change for as long as this director keeps his position.
Sounds to me like many of your colleagues are already doing exactly this.
posted by flabdablet at 7:35 AM on February 22 [1 favorite]
You can't care more than the boss does. If the boss gives lip service to caring but in actual practice does not care and does not do anything or show any intention of doing anything, your continuing to poke him with a stick is probably not going to do anything but make you stand out as a nag and a problem. Nobody's going to cheer you for making them work their full 8 hours in office every time when they are in a job where one of the unofficial benefits is that they don't have to. You don't have the power to enforce the rule. Let it go. Jeannie Bueller didn't get anywhere with the argument of "Why does he get to ditch when everyone else has to go?"
It is also very easy to get on people's bad sides and be "the bad guy" as a younger woman who's new. With the amount of times you've poked him and gotten nowhere...I'd lay off.
You can't help what others do. All you can do is focus on what's under your control, which is you, and figuring out how you're going to handle your workload and how much "extra" you are gonna give here. Director will give lip service but not do anything to help or change in any way. If you cannot get help from him in any way, what can you do that only requires you?
posted by jenfullmoon at 11:29 AM on February 22 [2 favorites]
It is also very easy to get on people's bad sides and be "the bad guy" as a younger woman who's new. With the amount of times you've poked him and gotten nowhere...I'd lay off.
You can't help what others do. All you can do is focus on what's under your control, which is you, and figuring out how you're going to handle your workload and how much "extra" you are gonna give here. Director will give lip service but not do anything to help or change in any way. If you cannot get help from him in any way, what can you do that only requires you?
posted by jenfullmoon at 11:29 AM on February 22 [2 favorites]
Don't say anything else, stay in your own lane. Here's what I've learned as a manager, a pissed off employee and a slacker:
When employees complain about anything, they become the problem. What you're doing ultimately is you are showing where the manager isn't effective. It's a bad look for them, and now they know that YOU know they're ineffective. Remember, they are also cogs in a large machine and may not be able to do what you think they should.
So generally what happens is you get placed on their shit list, and you will get more piled on you and if they have to chance to let you go, they will.
As soon as any new employee points out a concern that I should have dealt with and I didn't, I want them gone. The, "you know what we should do...?" new employee does not make many friends.
As far as the slackers, you have not made any friends here.
I was also the young new employee who didn't have to telescope back far to see the absolute clusterfuck of work/management issues. But I learned over time that being a cog in a machine means staying in your lane and not trying to fix anything. If the org wanted to fix things, they would have. You go in, do your thing, and leave.
When you want management to run a certain way and it doesn't the only real change you can make is start your own company and do things the way you want.
Organizations are very conflict averse and complaining to your boss makes YOU the conflict.
posted by berkshiredogs at 5:36 AM on February 23 [4 favorites]
When employees complain about anything, they become the problem. What you're doing ultimately is you are showing where the manager isn't effective. It's a bad look for them, and now they know that YOU know they're ineffective. Remember, they are also cogs in a large machine and may not be able to do what you think they should.
So generally what happens is you get placed on their shit list, and you will get more piled on you and if they have to chance to let you go, they will.
As soon as any new employee points out a concern that I should have dealt with and I didn't, I want them gone. The, "you know what we should do...?" new employee does not make many friends.
As far as the slackers, you have not made any friends here.
I was also the young new employee who didn't have to telescope back far to see the absolute clusterfuck of work/management issues. But I learned over time that being a cog in a machine means staying in your lane and not trying to fix anything. If the org wanted to fix things, they would have. You go in, do your thing, and leave.
When you want management to run a certain way and it doesn't the only real change you can make is start your own company and do things the way you want.
Organizations are very conflict averse and complaining to your boss makes YOU the conflict.
posted by berkshiredogs at 5:36 AM on February 23 [4 favorites]
I would be preparing my exit. I would be populating my calendar to show that i am full to the brim with explicit tasks "prepare presentation x - 2 hrs" and so on. I would be saying, to any request to do more work no, I can't take on more tasks until I am down to my 40 hours a week, alternatively that we re-negotiate my salary to incorporate overtime. By asking me to take on more work you are, let's say inadvertently, implying that I am slacking off, that I have room in the 40 hours you pay me to do more work. I don't think you think that, I believe you see how hard I work and that I am overstretched, doing unpaid labour out of my contracted hours. So the prioritising has to be left to you. Which of these tasks do you want me to stop doing in order to take on these new tasks.
posted by Iteki at 7:01 AM on February 23 [2 favorites]
posted by Iteki at 7:01 AM on February 23 [2 favorites]
Oh, and also, at the risk of sounding ageist, when I was younger I thought I also was able to see what others couldn't. The inefficiencies, the opportunities for improvement, expansion, etc. It too a long time but I realise more recently that everyone else can see them too, they just don't give a shit or actively benefit from the status quo. I've begun to finally stop sticking my neck out and chasing every damned ball. It's a little heartbreaking, so when I see that pattern, I know I have to go.
posted by Iteki at 7:07 AM on February 23 [3 favorites]
posted by Iteki at 7:07 AM on February 23 [3 favorites]
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You said you are "used to a more traditional office environment". You could make yourself adapt to this new environment, where the norm is to work a 4-hour day.
posted by sandwich at 5:50 PM on February 21 [38 favorites]