Teenagers are just being, ugh.
January 28, 2025 2:18 PM Subscribe
My neighbor opened up a small business in a storefront a few months ago near a high school and after school hours some teenagers are acting like assholes in front of it, and is at his wit's end, venting and complaining to me, and asked for suggestions.
He opened a small repair shop (lawn mowers, snow blowers, mopeds) a block away from a local high school and after school lets out, 30-50 teenagers congregate over the course of 90 minutes in front of his storefront, waiting for the public bus and/or just hanging out. It's a city, there's only about 20 feet from his storefront's door and There's a bus stop is just 50 feet away from the store's entrance and hasn't been an issue outside of this time frame.
Some of them don't cause any issues, just wait for the bus, or even or loiter and don't affect him or is business, but many are to various degrees: opening and closing the door without walking in, standing in front of the store's door when a customer tries to walk in, he said they've catcalled others and/or cussed them ou, or at customers or throwing snowballs at customers or their cars as they walk up or drive away from the store, or his shop's windows.
He's talked to them several times; they've ignored him, blew him off ("it's a free country, make me").
He's talked to the school's principal; they were apathetic because this is happening off of school property. He's also called the cops a few times, they've either not come or have sat in their cars with no effect. He's also called the local councilperson as well with no response.
I can tell he's at his wit's end, I gave him 'the ignore advice' when he mentioned it to me a while back; he then vented to me again last week, and feel a little bad for him while wanting to coax him to not escalate it.
He opened a small repair shop (lawn mowers, snow blowers, mopeds) a block away from a local high school and after school lets out, 30-50 teenagers congregate over the course of 90 minutes in front of his storefront, waiting for the public bus and/or just hanging out. It's a city, there's only about 20 feet from his storefront's door and There's a bus stop is just 50 feet away from the store's entrance and hasn't been an issue outside of this time frame.
Some of them don't cause any issues, just wait for the bus, or even or loiter and don't affect him or is business, but many are to various degrees: opening and closing the door without walking in, standing in front of the store's door when a customer tries to walk in, he said they've catcalled others and/or cussed them ou, or at customers or throwing snowballs at customers or their cars as they walk up or drive away from the store, or his shop's windows.
He's talked to them several times; they've ignored him, blew him off ("it's a free country, make me").
He's talked to the school's principal; they were apathetic because this is happening off of school property. He's also called the cops a few times, they've either not come or have sat in their cars with no effect. He's also called the local councilperson as well with no response.
I can tell he's at his wit's end, I gave him 'the ignore advice' when he mentioned it to me a while back; he then vented to me again last week, and feel a little bad for him while wanting to coax him to not escalate it.
A climbing gym in a former church in Amsterdam had this issue of kids hanging out in their entryway getting high. They solved it by playing Gregorian chants over their speakers.
Another option is to play a high pitched tone. Teenagers have better hearing than adults. But you might also bother animals with that.
posted by Thisandthat at 2:32 PM on January 28 [12 favorites]
Another option is to play a high pitched tone. Teenagers have better hearing than adults. But you might also bother animals with that.
posted by Thisandthat at 2:32 PM on January 28 [12 favorites]
Close his shop during these hours.
posted by edbles at 2:33 PM on January 28 [6 favorites]
posted by edbles at 2:33 PM on January 28 [6 favorites]
I was going to suggest a mosquito alarm but it sounds like they kind of have to be there to wait for the bus, so you can't just make them go away. And also if there's a bus stop there then other people might, including children, also need to wait for the bus.
Option #2, is there a way to entice them to go somewhere else? By that i mean, is there some sort of "pull" nearby that might draw them away instead of a push factor in front of the shop. A better place to hang out. They can get on the bus at the stop closer to the other place. I don't know what I'm imagining exactly, but sometime like the nearby ice cream place and could hand out a stack of coupons, or a fast food place offering a happy-hour free fries with every crappy burger, or whatever. Obviously unless he wants to spend money rewarding bad behaviour he can't make those specific things happen, but I'm typing out my mental wanderings in case they spark a better idea in someone else.
The other option if you don't want to escalate is to just wait. When I was in elementary school and it was the custom for most kids to go home for lunch, sometimes instead of going home we would go eat at the fish and chips place across from the school. While individual kids went infrequently, there was pretty much always a group of kids there at lunchtime. It was a small place with maybe 15-20 seats. We weren't really doing anything bad, but a bunch of 10-13 year olds with no adults are inherently kind of annoying. Later as an adult while visiting my parents I had a hankering for fish and chips and went there around lunctime. There were no kids there. I mentioned to the owner that there were no kids (though the two nearby schools were still there), and he said "Yeah, they don't come anymore." He said there were a few years when kids were always there, but before and after that it wasn't a think. Like it was just this one little cohort of kids among whom it became a thing. I thought he might be sorry to have lost the business, but he said the kids kept adults away and he preferred the adult customers.
High school kids come and go pretty quickly. It could be that in two years when lots of these kids of graduated, it won't be an issue anymore. I know two years can feel like a long time if you're putting up with crap every day, though.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 2:38 PM on January 28 [4 favorites]
Option #2, is there a way to entice them to go somewhere else? By that i mean, is there some sort of "pull" nearby that might draw them away instead of a push factor in front of the shop. A better place to hang out. They can get on the bus at the stop closer to the other place. I don't know what I'm imagining exactly, but sometime like the nearby ice cream place and could hand out a stack of coupons, or a fast food place offering a happy-hour free fries with every crappy burger, or whatever. Obviously unless he wants to spend money rewarding bad behaviour he can't make those specific things happen, but I'm typing out my mental wanderings in case they spark a better idea in someone else.
The other option if you don't want to escalate is to just wait. When I was in elementary school and it was the custom for most kids to go home for lunch, sometimes instead of going home we would go eat at the fish and chips place across from the school. While individual kids went infrequently, there was pretty much always a group of kids there at lunchtime. It was a small place with maybe 15-20 seats. We weren't really doing anything bad, but a bunch of 10-13 year olds with no adults are inherently kind of annoying. Later as an adult while visiting my parents I had a hankering for fish and chips and went there around lunctime. There were no kids there. I mentioned to the owner that there were no kids (though the two nearby schools were still there), and he said "Yeah, they don't come anymore." He said there were a few years when kids were always there, but before and after that it wasn't a think. Like it was just this one little cohort of kids among whom it became a thing. I thought he might be sorry to have lost the business, but he said the kids kept adults away and he preferred the adult customers.
High school kids come and go pretty quickly. It could be that in two years when lots of these kids of graduated, it won't be an issue anymore. I know two years can feel like a long time if you're putting up with crap every day, though.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 2:38 PM on January 28 [4 favorites]
Oh yeah, maybe country music or something might be a better/safer option than a mosquito alarm. But again, if they have no choice but to be there because that's where the bus stops, it seems a little cruel to torture them. I mean you don't need them to leave (and they probably won't if the bus stops there), you just need them to stop being jerks.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 2:40 PM on January 28 [1 favorite]
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 2:40 PM on January 28 [1 favorite]
Maybe this was just a bad business decision on your neighbours part? Of course a storefront next to the high school and a bus stop is going to get teenagers loitering. Did they not do any research into the location?
Has he asked his neighbour businesses how theyre dealing with it?
Otherwise they probably need to make it as unpleasant to be there as possible without deterring real customers. Play loud classical music? Unless you can convince the city to move the bus stop… (albeit making it someone else’s headache…)
posted by cgg at 2:53 PM on January 28 [11 favorites]
Has he asked his neighbour businesses how theyre dealing with it?
Otherwise they probably need to make it as unpleasant to be there as possible without deterring real customers. Play loud classical music? Unless you can convince the city to move the bus stop… (albeit making it someone else’s headache…)
posted by cgg at 2:53 PM on January 28 [11 favorites]
A large intimidating security guard carrying a billy club.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 2:55 PM on January 28 [1 favorite]
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 2:55 PM on January 28 [1 favorite]
put up a sign over a moped in the shop window:
"get off the lawn...mowers"posted by HearHere at 2:57 PM on January 28 [1 favorite]
Could he put out some large potted plants or other fixtures to reduce space for them to loiter in? Or some sort of fencing or barrier that allows customers access but dissuades random teens from milling around? Being that close to a high school and bus stop makes it a hard problem to solve, but maybe if they aren't gathering literally right in front of the store entrance that's a win.
posted by emd3737 at 3:13 PM on January 28 [1 favorite]
posted by emd3737 at 3:13 PM on January 28 [1 favorite]
I dislike this on principle, to be honest. Has he considered inviting them in to wait for the bus? If they are inside they might feel compeled to moderate their behavior a bit.
posted by Alensin at 3:19 PM on January 28 [9 favorites]
posted by Alensin at 3:19 PM on January 28 [9 favorites]
Can he create an entryway through the rear of the store with parking? That would solve his problem and offer perks to his customers.
posted by effluvia at 3:22 PM on January 28 [3 favorites]
posted by effluvia at 3:22 PM on January 28 [3 favorites]
Another option is to play a high pitched tone. Teenagers have better hearing than adults.
Please do not do this. It’s a bus stop. Teenagers are allowed to wait for the bus. Parents with kids are allowed to wait for the bus or exist near a school. For that matter I could easily hear these devices well into my twenties and I absolutely despised the jerks who used them. You may drive the annoying teenagers away but you cannot direct this painful noise solely at them. I used to have to avoid a block very close to the house I lived in because it blasted this kind of noise. I was 26 when I moved out.
posted by Tomorrowful at 3:48 PM on January 28 [45 favorites]
Please do not do this. It’s a bus stop. Teenagers are allowed to wait for the bus. Parents with kids are allowed to wait for the bus or exist near a school. For that matter I could easily hear these devices well into my twenties and I absolutely despised the jerks who used them. You may drive the annoying teenagers away but you cannot direct this painful noise solely at them. I used to have to avoid a block very close to the house I lived in because it blasted this kind of noise. I was 26 when I moved out.
posted by Tomorrowful at 3:48 PM on January 28 [45 favorites]
Finding a way to give the kids a place to sit that's just a little bit further away will distract them and get them out of the direct radius of the door. Basically, a better bus stop or an extra bench. Doesn't have to be pretty. Kids are impulsive, they aren't putting any forethought into the behavior right in front of the store so even a place to naturally gather an additional 5 feet away can give enough space for people to do their shopping in more peace.
posted by AlexiaSky at 3:54 PM on January 28 [12 favorites]
posted by AlexiaSky at 3:54 PM on January 28 [12 favorites]
I'd try contacting the councilperson's staff until someone helps. Or, assuming this is in Cleveland per OP's profile, the city's neighborhood services department. Not that anyone will have some magic solution, but I bet he can get someone to help.
posted by mullacc at 4:03 PM on January 28
posted by mullacc at 4:03 PM on January 28
Don't escalate.
Try to explanate, (is that a word?)
When problems are happening, go try to talk to them and explain. Think about what he can do to get them to stop. That isn't just hassling them. Teenagers tend to behave poorly, but some kindness and explaining the situation might help.
He can go the nasty route, but that will likely make things worse. He should offer the hand and not the fist. Not the kind of business that can offer a helping hand to a bunch of teenagers, (they don't tend to have lawn mowers and snow blowers), but being nice, and getting some of them on his side may really improve the situation.
posted by Windopaene at 4:05 PM on January 28 [5 favorites]
Try to explanate, (is that a word?)
When problems are happening, go try to talk to them and explain. Think about what he can do to get them to stop. That isn't just hassling them. Teenagers tend to behave poorly, but some kindness and explaining the situation might help.
He can go the nasty route, but that will likely make things worse. He should offer the hand and not the fist. Not the kind of business that can offer a helping hand to a bunch of teenagers, (they don't tend to have lawn mowers and snow blowers), but being nice, and getting some of them on his side may really improve the situation.
posted by Windopaene at 4:05 PM on January 28 [5 favorites]
Are the hours where the kids are hanging out typically times when your neighbor would be getting a lot of walk-in business? (i.e. are they actively impairing the ability of people to do business, or is it more like a once-in-awhile thing?)
to go the other way with it... Does the business have a big parking lot? Is there room for some picnic tables or maybe a basketball hoop or cornhole or something?
If the kids have a legit reason for being in the general area (waiting for a bus is in fact a legit reason), being the small biz that is okay with them sitting there with their friends rather than having to huddle up, and even having a way for them to occupy their time would likely be welcome.
If there were a bunch of kids hanging around my place of business, I'd much prefer they think of me as "the shopowner who lets us hang out until the bus gets there" rather than "the a-hole who tries to tell us what to do" or whatever.
Maybe one or more of them would be interested in learning how to repair stuff?
The world (and the USA in particualr) is a shitty enough place for youth right now without calling the cops on them while they're waiting to get home, even if they are being rowdy.
posted by softlord at 4:08 PM on January 28 [25 favorites]
to go the other way with it... Does the business have a big parking lot? Is there room for some picnic tables or maybe a basketball hoop or cornhole or something?
If the kids have a legit reason for being in the general area (waiting for a bus is in fact a legit reason), being the small biz that is okay with them sitting there with their friends rather than having to huddle up, and even having a way for them to occupy their time would likely be welcome.
If there were a bunch of kids hanging around my place of business, I'd much prefer they think of me as "the shopowner who lets us hang out until the bus gets there" rather than "the a-hole who tries to tell us what to do" or whatever.
Maybe one or more of them would be interested in learning how to repair stuff?
The world (and the USA in particualr) is a shitty enough place for youth right now without calling the cops on them while they're waiting to get home, even if they are being rowdy.
posted by softlord at 4:08 PM on January 28 [25 favorites]
Really some responsible adults should do something about it. Sounds like all responsible adults have abdicated, though.
The antisocial solution: lawn sprinkler.
posted by Gilgamesh's Chauffeur at 4:23 PM on January 28 [1 favorite]
The antisocial solution: lawn sprinkler.
posted by Gilgamesh's Chauffeur at 4:23 PM on January 28 [1 favorite]
Are we too far past a place where he can be friendly with them? They sound annoying, but this sounds like the cost of doing business at a storefront near the high school and a bus stop. Calling the principal and the cops sounds like a huge reaction to what is pretty normal teenage behavior.
posted by bluedaisy at 4:23 PM on January 28 [10 favorites]
posted by bluedaisy at 4:23 PM on January 28 [10 favorites]
Try to explanate, (is that a word?)
adj.: "extending outward in a flat form" [merriam-webster]
maybe explicate? if they're opening and closing the door without walking in & he wants them as customers: stock items of interest. there was a shop near my high school that sold a bunch of stuff, all i remember is that they had snacks
posted by HearHere at 4:24 PM on January 28 [3 favorites]
adj.: "extending outward in a flat form" [merriam-webster]
maybe explicate? if they're opening and closing the door without walking in & he wants them as customers: stock items of interest. there was a shop near my high school that sold a bunch of stuff, all i remember is that they had snacks
posted by HearHere at 4:24 PM on January 28 [3 favorites]
Does he have dedicated parking? Maybe put up a shelter? Maybe invite them in and sell apples at cost? Spend $200 and out a slot car race track in the front window? Pinball machine? Pachinko machine? In 50 years, they’ll be talking about how legend he was!
If only he could have a coupla dogs.
Does he own the building? Could he install a climbing wall outside?
posted by at at 4:30 PM on January 28 [5 favorites]
If only he could have a coupla dogs.
Does he own the building? Could he install a climbing wall outside?
posted by at at 4:30 PM on January 28 [5 favorites]
The children are right to see your neighbor as hostile and will not see a reason to change their opinion if he maintains his current approach, which he should consider radically changing if he wants to succeed as a business owner and be seen as a valuable and trustworthy community member.
The reason none of your neighbor’s strategies are working is that they are all profoundly disrespectful of his neighbors — yes, the children are his neighbors — and also demonstrate that he has no intention of being anything other than, at best, silently observing their every move, and at worst, an active and dangerous threat.
And regardless of whatever other escalatory approaches he might try (talking to the principal about the children was a reasonable idea; calling the police on children waiting with their friends for a bus was not), nothing will improve until the children trust him and see him (and his employees, if there are any) as safe adults who they can turn to if there’s a problem. It does not matter if that’s unfair, and if your neighbor is actually a great dad and loves kids; the children at the bus stop know nothing about him and see no reason to trust him given his escalations.
Now, I am not saying that your neighbor is wrong to not want dozens of non-customers blocking the door or standing inside his business getting in people’s way. I am saying that perhaps his vision for what his business would be and how successful it would be and who its customers would be does not align with his day-to-day experience seeing dozens more children than he has people stopping in for their annual snowblower maintenance check.
I am also guessing that children who are taking the public bus home in a city in the middle of the afternoon have two working parents and thus no one to pick them up by car after school, making me think that your neighbor doesn’t see the children as the family members of people who own homes with lawns that need mowing or snowblowing or as moped drivers; I leave it as an exercise for your neighbor to imagine how many families like theirs he knows and sees as people like himself.
The numbers of children and the distances involved also make me question your neighbor’s sense of perspective. A small-business storefront in a big city is not going to be that wide, so 50 feet certainly could be a few shops down from his. A neighborhood bus stop is going to naturally have people waiting at it, and in many cities, high school students are a large proportion of transit users given their inability to drive, but many municipalities have made bus shelters and benches hostile to anyone waiting for more than a few minutes and don’t time services well to match school arrival and departure times even on routes that serve schools. Are the buses every few minutes, or every, say, 30 minutes? Finally, 30 kids is about one classroom’s worth of kids, and if the bus timetable is even remotely decent, at least three or four buses will have passed by in the 90 minutes in question.
Here are some suggestions you can offer your neighbor:
- Has he tried consistently talking to the children about anything other than the annoyance they are causing him, like the weather, the game last weekend, or the family of birds in the nest in the tree next to the bus stop? If not, he’s going to really struggle to get them to treat him with respect, simply because children need much more time and exposure to new people and things than adults do, and fair or unfair, he’s the new person, not them. They have been attending that school for years; he has just shown up. Even saying something like, “Hey guys, I heard [school name] made it to the state basketball finals last night! You must be excited.” and seeing where the conversation goes is a way in here. Of course, this means he would need to pay attention to what the school is doing, which leads me to my next suggestion:
- Could he sponsor anything the school does in a way that could get him and his business’ name printed somewhere at school where the children will see it? Having a “Mike’s Engine Repair, 123 School Street” banner hanging off the gymnasium rafters or on the outfield fence shows the children and the school staff that he is a real person with a real business on the same street as the campus (and they’ll run past the sign every day during PE, too). Schools are in constant need of donations of everything and every service; he could donate snowblowing services to the school in winter, drop off some stationery for the front office, or offer the school’s industrial-tech classes some leftover spare parts, cleaning supplies or technical equipment. The school’s PTA might have its officers and email address on the school website, but the simplest way to proceed might be to pop into the school’s front office and ask in person.
- Can he add better, clearer signage to his storefront — or even put something in the front window — that would show the children what exactly it is the shop does? Few children have any idea of what goes on inside an engine of any kind, and having an intricate scale model of a moped engine, some interesting advertising images, or even some non-harsh lighting that illuminated the interior of the workshop space might make the children see the shop as somewhere someone cares about (non-verbally indicating to the children that they should, too).
- Can he make it obvious that his shop is, in fact, a safe place for children to ask for help? Something like an “all are welcome” or “safe space” pride-flag decal in the window, or, depending on whatever the local equivalent is near you, a Code Adam sticker? Many children are trained by their parents or schools to look for places with visuals like these if something goes wrong so they can seek help without the risk of “getting in trouble” or “telling on someone”, which keeps kids safer than they would be otherwise. Maybe there’s a local teen-safety initiative to connect with that offers training or support for businesses like your neighbor’s?
- Could the local transit agency do more to make the bus stop better? Could it offer wifi, or a screen with upcoming departures, or even heat? It sounds as if the children are as cold and bored as anyone waiting for a bus in winter at a lackluster stop would be, and after not having the use of their phones all day the children will be desperate for wifi (perhaps that’s why they’re hovering outside his storefront?). Your neighbor could use his agency as a business owner on a transit corridor to contact the local transit system and see what can be done to make the stop more attractive to potential customers.
- A final left-field suggestion: could he respond to their presence by engaging with them without directly interacting with them? I am thinking something like a chalkboard hanging in the window with a (engine-related?) dad joke, pun or other bit of humor he changes every school day. He need not talk to them at all, but the kids will quickly see that the board is changing every day, approach the shop, read today’s joke, chuckle or groan at it as appropriate, and then move on after the experience of being next to the shop has reached its natural end after today’s corny joke has been read.
It is absolutely possible for your neighbor’s business to succeed and also for his neighbors, the children of his city, to respect him and his business (to the extent that can be expected of kids their age). I hope he can inspire his fellow business owners on the street and around the school to make the children, many of whom are probably their own children, feel as safe in the neighborhood around their campus as they do in class.
posted by mdonley at 4:37 PM on January 28 [54 favorites]
The reason none of your neighbor’s strategies are working is that they are all profoundly disrespectful of his neighbors — yes, the children are his neighbors — and also demonstrate that he has no intention of being anything other than, at best, silently observing their every move, and at worst, an active and dangerous threat.
And regardless of whatever other escalatory approaches he might try (talking to the principal about the children was a reasonable idea; calling the police on children waiting with their friends for a bus was not), nothing will improve until the children trust him and see him (and his employees, if there are any) as safe adults who they can turn to if there’s a problem. It does not matter if that’s unfair, and if your neighbor is actually a great dad and loves kids; the children at the bus stop know nothing about him and see no reason to trust him given his escalations.
Now, I am not saying that your neighbor is wrong to not want dozens of non-customers blocking the door or standing inside his business getting in people’s way. I am saying that perhaps his vision for what his business would be and how successful it would be and who its customers would be does not align with his day-to-day experience seeing dozens more children than he has people stopping in for their annual snowblower maintenance check.
I am also guessing that children who are taking the public bus home in a city in the middle of the afternoon have two working parents and thus no one to pick them up by car after school, making me think that your neighbor doesn’t see the children as the family members of people who own homes with lawns that need mowing or snowblowing or as moped drivers; I leave it as an exercise for your neighbor to imagine how many families like theirs he knows and sees as people like himself.
The numbers of children and the distances involved also make me question your neighbor’s sense of perspective. A small-business storefront in a big city is not going to be that wide, so 50 feet certainly could be a few shops down from his. A neighborhood bus stop is going to naturally have people waiting at it, and in many cities, high school students are a large proportion of transit users given their inability to drive, but many municipalities have made bus shelters and benches hostile to anyone waiting for more than a few minutes and don’t time services well to match school arrival and departure times even on routes that serve schools. Are the buses every few minutes, or every, say, 30 minutes? Finally, 30 kids is about one classroom’s worth of kids, and if the bus timetable is even remotely decent, at least three or four buses will have passed by in the 90 minutes in question.
Here are some suggestions you can offer your neighbor:
- Has he tried consistently talking to the children about anything other than the annoyance they are causing him, like the weather, the game last weekend, or the family of birds in the nest in the tree next to the bus stop? If not, he’s going to really struggle to get them to treat him with respect, simply because children need much more time and exposure to new people and things than adults do, and fair or unfair, he’s the new person, not them. They have been attending that school for years; he has just shown up. Even saying something like, “Hey guys, I heard [school name] made it to the state basketball finals last night! You must be excited.” and seeing where the conversation goes is a way in here. Of course, this means he would need to pay attention to what the school is doing, which leads me to my next suggestion:
- Could he sponsor anything the school does in a way that could get him and his business’ name printed somewhere at school where the children will see it? Having a “Mike’s Engine Repair, 123 School Street” banner hanging off the gymnasium rafters or on the outfield fence shows the children and the school staff that he is a real person with a real business on the same street as the campus (and they’ll run past the sign every day during PE, too). Schools are in constant need of donations of everything and every service; he could donate snowblowing services to the school in winter, drop off some stationery for the front office, or offer the school’s industrial-tech classes some leftover spare parts, cleaning supplies or technical equipment. The school’s PTA might have its officers and email address on the school website, but the simplest way to proceed might be to pop into the school’s front office and ask in person.
- Can he add better, clearer signage to his storefront — or even put something in the front window — that would show the children what exactly it is the shop does? Few children have any idea of what goes on inside an engine of any kind, and having an intricate scale model of a moped engine, some interesting advertising images, or even some non-harsh lighting that illuminated the interior of the workshop space might make the children see the shop as somewhere someone cares about (non-verbally indicating to the children that they should, too).
- Can he make it obvious that his shop is, in fact, a safe place for children to ask for help? Something like an “all are welcome” or “safe space” pride-flag decal in the window, or, depending on whatever the local equivalent is near you, a Code Adam sticker? Many children are trained by their parents or schools to look for places with visuals like these if something goes wrong so they can seek help without the risk of “getting in trouble” or “telling on someone”, which keeps kids safer than they would be otherwise. Maybe there’s a local teen-safety initiative to connect with that offers training or support for businesses like your neighbor’s?
- Could the local transit agency do more to make the bus stop better? Could it offer wifi, or a screen with upcoming departures, or even heat? It sounds as if the children are as cold and bored as anyone waiting for a bus in winter at a lackluster stop would be, and after not having the use of their phones all day the children will be desperate for wifi (perhaps that’s why they’re hovering outside his storefront?). Your neighbor could use his agency as a business owner on a transit corridor to contact the local transit system and see what can be done to make the stop more attractive to potential customers.
- A final left-field suggestion: could he respond to their presence by engaging with them without directly interacting with them? I am thinking something like a chalkboard hanging in the window with a (engine-related?) dad joke, pun or other bit of humor he changes every school day. He need not talk to them at all, but the kids will quickly see that the board is changing every day, approach the shop, read today’s joke, chuckle or groan at it as appropriate, and then move on after the experience of being next to the shop has reached its natural end after today’s corny joke has been read.
It is absolutely possible for your neighbor’s business to succeed and also for his neighbors, the children of his city, to respect him and his business (to the extent that can be expected of kids their age). I hope he can inspire his fellow business owners on the street and around the school to make the children, many of whom are probably their own children, feel as safe in the neighborhood around their campus as they do in class.
posted by mdonley at 4:37 PM on January 28 [54 favorites]
Loudspeaker out front playing classical or Musak-esqe. Volume control at the register. If the kids behave, the music volume goes down, maybe even silent. The worse they behave, the louder the music gets, until they behave/disperse. If physical retaliation/damage ensues, proceed to add a big red-blinkenlight security camera and dvr.
Expecting a minimum level of good behavior in public is a reasonable price of civilization, just like taxes. No one in this case should be required to expend unrequited or unreciprocated empathy on others. If they are, that's bullying.
posted by zaixfeep at 4:47 PM on January 28 [8 favorites]
Expecting a minimum level of good behavior in public is a reasonable price of civilization, just like taxes. No one in this case should be required to expend unrequited or unreciprocated empathy on others. If they are, that's bullying.
posted by zaixfeep at 4:47 PM on January 28 [8 favorites]
Saw someone say you’re in Cleveland. Has he tried RTA police, or just the city? Cleveland police are beyond useless, but RTA police might not be completely worthless.
If that doesn’t work, unwelcoming music might.
This used to happen at the high school I lived near. Kids would just completely swarm at the nearby library after school, vandalizing cars, screaming at library patrons, fighting, etc. Cleveland police won’t get involved unless there’s active violence and they’re there to witness it. Your friend’s best bet is to probably move away from the school.
posted by HVACDC_Bag at 4:56 PM on January 28 [1 favorite]
If that doesn’t work, unwelcoming music might.
This used to happen at the high school I lived near. Kids would just completely swarm at the nearby library after school, vandalizing cars, screaming at library patrons, fighting, etc. Cleveland police won’t get involved unless there’s active violence and they’re there to witness it. Your friend’s best bet is to probably move away from the school.
posted by HVACDC_Bag at 4:56 PM on January 28 [1 favorite]
A local convenience store put up outdoor speakers and played classical music; the janger-outers left. As long as they're chill, play a radio sttaion they like, otherwise, Strauss waltzes, YoYo Ma cello. And Publc Radio News. -Hi-5 zaizfeep!
Some kids that age are just jerks. I was sometimes a jerk at that age. Try to find a way to be good to them outwith encouraging them to stick around longer.
posted by chekhov's sock at 5:41 PM on January 28 [2 favorites]
Some kids that age are just jerks. I was sometimes a jerk at that age. Try to find a way to be good to them outwith encouraging them to stick around longer.
posted by chekhov's sock at 5:41 PM on January 28 [2 favorites]
Oh...and does the high school have a co-op program? I bet there would easily be one kud a year who would be interested to learn sbout fixing engines and running a small business. Hire a kid from the high school. It need not be one of the kids who hangs out outside (though it would proba my be great if it were), but just having a teen who is part of the shop will help change their general feeling toward the shop and its owner. And the specific teen will get to see the other side, which might trickle out to peers.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 5:56 PM on January 28 [6 favorites]
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 5:56 PM on January 28 [6 favorites]
nthing the idea of either offering one of the kids a job, or offering training/apprentice opportunity through the high school. The city/county/state may help because there are recent initiatives to get more kids into the trades. If he has free time see if the school(s) have a robotics team - he could be a mentor to the team and his repair skills could be transferred to kids who'd really care about learning them
posted by TimHare at 6:19 PM on January 28 [2 favorites]
posted by TimHare at 6:19 PM on January 28 [2 favorites]
There’s a story, unknown on how successful it was, about a bar that would give out lollipops as people left for the evening to keep them from shouting in the streets.
What’s the equivalent here?
posted by raccoon409 at 6:32 PM on January 28 [7 favorites]
What’s the equivalent here?
posted by raccoon409 at 6:32 PM on January 28 [7 favorites]
Is there a way to deputize the kids or some of the kids, and enlist their help? They’re not likely to wait somewhere else, but maybe he can get (pay?) a couple of the leaders to bring the followers into line.
posted by chesty_a_arthur at 7:48 PM on January 28 [1 favorite]
posted by chesty_a_arthur at 7:48 PM on January 28 [1 favorite]
Classical music (and other types of music) are commonly used to discourage people from loitering.
posted by kinddieserzeit at 8:41 PM on January 28 [1 favorite]
posted by kinddieserzeit at 8:41 PM on January 28 [1 favorite]
One of the high schools I went too dealt with teens hanging out and being disruptive in a weird way, but it was really effective. They put vending machines in the spots the trouble makers were gathering. Suddenly other teens were going there with purpose and it disrupted the flow of bored people making problems. There was one spot under a staircase that went from “this is where you can buy drugs!” to “line of teens arguing about getting powdered or chocolate donuts” in like a week. At the time I didn’t see the pattern, but looking back it really changed things and made the school safer.
posted by lepus at 9:41 PM on January 28 [13 favorites]
posted by lepus at 9:41 PM on January 28 [13 favorites]
They aren't just 'loitering', they're waiting for a bus, which they are entitled to do. They're not entitled to harass people though, obviously. Most likely they are doing that because they're bored - what about installing video games (are they still a thing?) and/or vending machines, thereby turning bored teenagers into customers?
I do like the suggestion of making the shop a 'safe space', particularly given the times. Someone who is seen as an ally may be less likely to be treated disrespectfully.
posted by dg at 9:57 PM on January 28 [5 favorites]
I do like the suggestion of making the shop a 'safe space', particularly given the times. Someone who is seen as an ally may be less likely to be treated disrespectfully.
posted by dg at 9:57 PM on January 28 [5 favorites]
Exploit these captive buyers. Change the entryway configuration to better align with what the market demands. Get a glass case and fill it with offbrand jolly ranchers and suchlike--bright colors, big variety. Charge something stupid, like 6 cents a pop. Replenish frequently, always seeking to stock new and ever-weirder candy/tiny toys/wearable horseshit. Visit a 5 Below for inspo. Hire one of the kids to clean up after the other kids, who will of course throw offbrand jolly rancher wrappers all over the place and stuff them into cracks in the mortar. When it becomes necessary, also hire a giant bouncer to tamp down the exuberance. Give the bouncer a branded hat. Begin to offer branded hats to the teens. Branch out into branded t-shirts. Presto, he's Buc-ees.
posted by Don Pepino at 6:46 AM on January 29 [12 favorites]
posted by Don Pepino at 6:46 AM on January 29 [12 favorites]
The transit service might adjust the location of the bus stop if the problem is explained to them.
posted by flug at 12:38 PM on January 29
posted by flug at 12:38 PM on January 29
But that just makes it somebody else's problem. Rinse, repeat...
posted by Windopaene at 1:24 PM on January 29 [1 favorite]
posted by Windopaene at 1:24 PM on January 29 [1 favorite]
Kids aren't dumb--they can tell when adults don't want them around, and when they feel like they're not wanted, they have no reason to act right.
Get some vending machines. Put out some outdoor seating, and a whiteboard with a question of the day or something. Hell, nobody is going to a small engine repair shop based on the store window, put an outward-facing tv in there and play some anime. Familiarize yourself with the school's calendar, and occasionally surprise them with Little Caesars Hot and Ready pizza or a multipack of Takis (you may need to adjust these depending on your kids preferences, a subject which many of them would love to talk with you about).
“The children are always ours, every single one of them, all over the globe; and I am beginning to suspect that whoever is incapable of recognizing this may be incapable of morality.”--James Baldwin
posted by box at 2:41 PM on January 29 [7 favorites]
Get some vending machines. Put out some outdoor seating, and a whiteboard with a question of the day or something. Hell, nobody is going to a small engine repair shop based on the store window, put an outward-facing tv in there and play some anime. Familiarize yourself with the school's calendar, and occasionally surprise them with Little Caesars Hot and Ready pizza or a multipack of Takis (you may need to adjust these depending on your kids preferences, a subject which many of them would love to talk with you about).
“The children are always ours, every single one of them, all over the globe; and I am beginning to suspect that whoever is incapable of recognizing this may be incapable of morality.”--James Baldwin
posted by box at 2:41 PM on January 29 [7 favorites]
I agree with everyone saying to find a way to engage with them rather than being the cranky old dude. I say this as a cranky old lady.
My first thought is wondering if this is the sort of place where some affable old fellow or lady or two can hang out on a bench or chair right outside the door during that time period. Like, not a security guard type person, but more someone who enjoys helping out and likes kids... And can give em the stink eye if things get out of hand.
You could pay this person, or you could invite one of the local weirdos/lonely old people to hang out and play their guitar or whatever.
posted by RedEmma at 3:48 PM on January 29 [2 favorites]
My first thought is wondering if this is the sort of place where some affable old fellow or lady or two can hang out on a bench or chair right outside the door during that time period. Like, not a security guard type person, but more someone who enjoys helping out and likes kids... And can give em the stink eye if things get out of hand.
You could pay this person, or you could invite one of the local weirdos/lonely old people to hang out and play their guitar or whatever.
posted by RedEmma at 3:48 PM on January 29 [2 favorites]
I agree with RedEmma, but with a different intended outcome. Teenagers will over time stay away from old people who are always trying to chat with them (especially if they ramble on about boring things). Either that or they will become friends which is also good.
Also as a previous commenter said, consider adding a camera. People, even teenagers, generally behave better if they know they are being watched. And if they do escalate, it will be recorded as evidence.
On a lighter note, there is an old story that may provide some inspiration as well -
"An old man bought a house just down the street from the local junior high school. The very next afternoon three young boys whooped their way down his street, beating merrily on every trashcan they passed. The crashing percussion continued day after day, until finally the man decided it was time to take some action.
One afternoon he walked out to meet the young percussionists as they banged their way home. He said, "You kids are a lot of fun. I like to see you express your excitement like that because it reminds me of the things I used to do when I was your age. In fact, I like it so much that I'll give you each a dollar if you'll promise to come around every day and do your thing." The kids grinned at each other and agreed to continue their afternoon trash can performances.
After a few days, the old timer greeted the kids again, but this time he had a sad smile on his face. "This recession's really putting a big dent in my income," he told them. "From now on, I'll only be able to pay you 50 cents to beat on the trash cans."
The noisemakers were obviously disappointed, but they accepted his offer and continued their daily ruckus. A few days later, the wily retiree approached the kids again as they drummed their way down the street.
"Look," he said, "I haven't received my Social Security check yet, so I'm not going to be able to give you more than 25 cents. Will that be okay?"
"A lousy quarter?" the drum leader exclaimed. "If you think we're going to waste our time beating these cans around for a quarter, you're nuts! No way, mister. We quit!"
And from that day on, the old man enjoyed peace in the afternoon."
posted by roaring beast at 6:13 PM on January 29 [2 favorites]
Also as a previous commenter said, consider adding a camera. People, even teenagers, generally behave better if they know they are being watched. And if they do escalate, it will be recorded as evidence.
On a lighter note, there is an old story that may provide some inspiration as well -
"An old man bought a house just down the street from the local junior high school. The very next afternoon three young boys whooped their way down his street, beating merrily on every trashcan they passed. The crashing percussion continued day after day, until finally the man decided it was time to take some action.
One afternoon he walked out to meet the young percussionists as they banged their way home. He said, "You kids are a lot of fun. I like to see you express your excitement like that because it reminds me of the things I used to do when I was your age. In fact, I like it so much that I'll give you each a dollar if you'll promise to come around every day and do your thing." The kids grinned at each other and agreed to continue their afternoon trash can performances.
After a few days, the old timer greeted the kids again, but this time he had a sad smile on his face. "This recession's really putting a big dent in my income," he told them. "From now on, I'll only be able to pay you 50 cents to beat on the trash cans."
The noisemakers were obviously disappointed, but they accepted his offer and continued their daily ruckus. A few days later, the wily retiree approached the kids again as they drummed their way down the street.
"Look," he said, "I haven't received my Social Security check yet, so I'm not going to be able to give you more than 25 cents. Will that be okay?"
"A lousy quarter?" the drum leader exclaimed. "If you think we're going to waste our time beating these cans around for a quarter, you're nuts! No way, mister. We quit!"
And from that day on, the old man enjoyed peace in the afternoon."
posted by roaring beast at 6:13 PM on January 29 [2 favorites]
Adultism as usual. The kids have a right to be there, and nothing described rises to the level of calling the cops (ugh).
Your friend should move to a different location.
posted by splitpeasoup at 11:23 PM on January 29 [2 favorites]
Your friend should move to a different location.
posted by splitpeasoup at 11:23 PM on January 29 [2 favorites]
Sell them something?
They're gonna be there anyway, waiting for the bus.
posted by fullerine at 9:28 AM on January 30 [2 favorites]
They're gonna be there anyway, waiting for the bus.
posted by fullerine at 9:28 AM on January 30 [2 favorites]
I agree about playing classical music.
posted by Small Dollar at 7:10 PM on January 31
posted by Small Dollar at 7:10 PM on January 31
« Older Laptop or tablet for a Mathematics undergrad | AlienFilter: Why does Ash run in place? Newer »
You are not logged in, either login or create an account to post comments
posted by funkaspuck at 2:24 PM on January 28 [1 favorite]