Leaving my job, boss is playing games.
January 9, 2025 7:27 AM Subscribe
Question about work and ethics.
I’ve been with this blue-collar HVAC company for several years now. For a long time, I worked there with my little brother. He died unexpectedly, from a fentanyl overdose. My employer has always been pretty fair with me, monetarily. But I had several times where I told him “I need more training; I’m working on 460 volt shit with almost no training at all. It’s only a matter of time until I hurt myself.” Lo, a few months ago, I had a workplace injury. Broken limb. I told him that I couldn’t deal with both A. The possibility of injuring myself further at work and making my wife a widow, and my mom and dad into orphan parents. And B. I can’t keep working at the places my little brother and I worked together. Just can’t. It’s fucking with my head. So this past Monday, I gave my two weeks. I have another gig lined up and I wanted to leave properly. The next day, my boss tells me that Friday will be my last day. So I told him, “nah, today will be my last day.” Then later on, I got my paycheck, and it was several hundred dollars short. He hemmed and hawed about it and says he’s gonna make it right. Until he does, am I ethically ok with withholding all the really expensive tools and refrigerant from my van? He owes me about $1500; I have the better part of $100k in my possession between his van and tools. Am I ethically ok withholding this stuff until he makes my paycheck right?
I’ve been with this blue-collar HVAC company for several years now. For a long time, I worked there with my little brother. He died unexpectedly, from a fentanyl overdose. My employer has always been pretty fair with me, monetarily. But I had several times where I told him “I need more training; I’m working on 460 volt shit with almost no training at all. It’s only a matter of time until I hurt myself.” Lo, a few months ago, I had a workplace injury. Broken limb. I told him that I couldn’t deal with both A. The possibility of injuring myself further at work and making my wife a widow, and my mom and dad into orphan parents. And B. I can’t keep working at the places my little brother and I worked together. Just can’t. It’s fucking with my head. So this past Monday, I gave my two weeks. I have another gig lined up and I wanted to leave properly. The next day, my boss tells me that Friday will be my last day. So I told him, “nah, today will be my last day.” Then later on, I got my paycheck, and it was several hundred dollars short. He hemmed and hawed about it and says he’s gonna make it right. Until he does, am I ethically ok with withholding all the really expensive tools and refrigerant from my van? He owes me about $1500; I have the better part of $100k in my possession between his van and tools. Am I ethically ok withholding this stuff until he makes my paycheck right?
I would just point out that it may not be legally okay to keep the equipment, and my understanding is that especially in the trades, anything on your record like that could come back to haunt you. I don't think it's likely to get that far but that's where my mind goes.
Also legally, you need to be paid for the work you did. Again it depends on your jurisdiction but that might be something to consider.
Ethically I think it's a grey area. I personally would return the equipment due to the legal stuff.
posted by warriorqueen at 7:37 AM on January 9
Also legally, you need to be paid for the work you did. Again it depends on your jurisdiction but that might be something to consider.
Ethically I think it's a grey area. I personally would return the equipment due to the legal stuff.
posted by warriorqueen at 7:37 AM on January 9
lein: The right to hold another's property as security for a debt owed [freedictionary]
posted by HearHere at 7:37 AM on January 9
posted by HearHere at 7:37 AM on January 9
I think you're ethically OK; whether you're legally OK is a separate question.
He is definitely NOT legally OK (at least in the US) and in my state he could owe you something like triple the amount he has shorted you. Google "late wage payment YOURSTATE" to find out what kind of penalties he might owe (this is regardless of your reason for quitting - he would owe you timely payment even if you just no-showed and never came back).
posted by mskyle at 7:38 AM on January 9 [6 favorites]
He is definitely NOT legally OK (at least in the US) and in my state he could owe you something like triple the amount he has shorted you. Google "late wage payment YOURSTATE" to find out what kind of penalties he might owe (this is regardless of your reason for quitting - he would owe you timely payment even if you just no-showed and never came back).
posted by mskyle at 7:38 AM on January 9 [6 favorites]
I think the question is, are you legally OK withholding this stuff, and does the boss seem like the type to potentially get litigious about things? I am not a lawyer, this is not legal advice, but that's also part of the set of considerations here.
My guess, though I have no idea what jurisdiction you're in, is that it's technically illegal to still be holding onto that much property from a former job, and it's worth enough that if the boss decided to get litigious about it, they could make it a real problem for you (e.g., felony theft charges).
So you're betting that they'll want their stuff back enough to pay what is essentially a ransom on it of a few hundred dollars. They owe you the money anyway, but you're trying to force their hand to pay it sooner or not do what you worry they might do and conveniently "forget" to pay it, I guess?
Legally speaking, you'd probably be better off returning the equipment, and if they don't pay you in a timely manner, take it to small-claims court. That seems like it could be much better than the potential to get prosecuted for felony theft.
That said, taking your time returning the equipment might be kind of a gray area of plausible deniability. You could draw it out a bit, or if they ask, say, "Yeah, I'd love to get this stuff out of my driveway and pick up that last part of my final paycheck. If you have that all set, let's schedule a time to meet and get this set."
But I wouldn't draw it out too long. Legally speaking—again, I'm just guessing—this could be problematic.
posted by limeonaire at 7:39 AM on January 9 [9 favorites]
My guess, though I have no idea what jurisdiction you're in, is that it's technically illegal to still be holding onto that much property from a former job, and it's worth enough that if the boss decided to get litigious about it, they could make it a real problem for you (e.g., felony theft charges).
So you're betting that they'll want their stuff back enough to pay what is essentially a ransom on it of a few hundred dollars. They owe you the money anyway, but you're trying to force their hand to pay it sooner or not do what you worry they might do and conveniently "forget" to pay it, I guess?
Legally speaking, you'd probably be better off returning the equipment, and if they don't pay you in a timely manner, take it to small-claims court. That seems like it could be much better than the potential to get prosecuted for felony theft.
That said, taking your time returning the equipment might be kind of a gray area of plausible deniability. You could draw it out a bit, or if they ask, say, "Yeah, I'd love to get this stuff out of my driveway and pick up that last part of my final paycheck. If you have that all set, let's schedule a time to meet and get this set."
But I wouldn't draw it out too long. Legally speaking—again, I'm just guessing—this could be problematic.
posted by limeonaire at 7:39 AM on January 9 [9 favorites]
Basically, at the moment, you're in the right and they're in the wrong. But if you go about this the wrong way, then you'll both be in the wrong, and you'll leave yourself open to potential prosecution.
posted by limeonaire at 7:42 AM on January 9 [1 favorite]
posted by limeonaire at 7:42 AM on January 9 [1 favorite]
TINLA
A middle ground might be to send a message that you're feeling very sad and confused at this point, and ask him to send/bring your check over to your place. They can pick up the van from there. Isn't this all going to happen within a few days' time? If not, why not? I don't see this developing into anything involving the court system or police.
posted by JimN2TAW at 7:43 AM on January 9 [1 favorite]
A middle ground might be to send a message that you're feeling very sad and confused at this point, and ask him to send/bring your check over to your place. They can pick up the van from there. Isn't this all going to happen within a few days' time? If not, why not? I don't see this developing into anything involving the court system or police.
posted by JimN2TAW at 7:43 AM on January 9 [1 favorite]
Definitely do not keep the stuff. However, you can email or text something like, "I'd like to schedule a time to pick up my last paycheck and return the van* with your tools and refrigerant. When is a good time for you?" I think that tacitly creates the impression that "you'll get your stuff when I get my check" without actually saying it. The tacit part is important. If you show up and he doesn't have your paycheck, you really have no alternative but to turn over his stuff. But it would be very helpful in court if you have him in writing agreeing to your proposal to meet for the purposes of paying you and turning over his stuff. This is a point I'd make at the time of meeting if he tries to take his stuff back without paying you.
* It's unclear whether the van belongs to you or him. At one point you wrote "my van" and at another you wrote "his van."
posted by slkinsey at 8:02 AM on January 9 [15 favorites]
* It's unclear whether the van belongs to you or him. At one point you wrote "my van" and at another you wrote "his van."
posted by slkinsey at 8:02 AM on January 9 [15 favorites]
You could hold on to gear and be too busy and forgetful to return it promptly, as he is too busy and forgetful to pay you properly. But the best plan is to ask your state Labor Dept. to assist you with recovering unpaid wages. That way, they know who's stealing from employees. This is a typical request and they will help you.
posted by theora55 at 8:20 AM on January 9 [6 favorites]
posted by theora55 at 8:20 AM on January 9 [6 favorites]
Consult an employment lawyer. Your region's licensing body may have a program where they maintain a directory and you can put your name in for a free 15-minute consult with lawyers until you find a fit you like.
posted by Shepherd at 8:21 AM on January 9 [1 favorite]
posted by Shepherd at 8:21 AM on January 9 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Let me just add to this: at one point in my life I was pre law, and I have a lot of lawyer friends who also just happen to absolutely hate capital, and will litigate for me just for the lulz.
posted by HVACDC_Bag at 8:42 AM on January 9 [3 favorites]
posted by HVACDC_Bag at 8:42 AM on January 9 [3 favorites]
The next day, my boss tells me that Friday will be my last day.
If you don't have this in writing it means nothing.
So I told him, “nah, today will be my last day.”
Failing to work the agreed 2 weeks notice period means they do not have to pay you for any unworked notice, but they will be contractually obliged to pay up until the last day worked.
posted by Lanark at 8:45 AM on January 9 [1 favorite]
If you don't have this in writing it means nothing.
So I told him, “nah, today will be my last day.”
Failing to work the agreed 2 weeks notice period means they do not have to pay you for any unworked notice, but they will be contractually obliged to pay up until the last day worked.
posted by Lanark at 8:45 AM on January 9 [1 favorite]
Aside from legal and ethical issues, I'd strongly say -- do whatever ensures that in a few weeks, you will look back on (ie barely remember) a clean break. You don't sound like someone who wants to stay entangled and back and forth and back and forth with this person and the bad memories.
Do your future self the favor of taking the high road. He'll be glad.
posted by Dashy at 8:51 AM on January 9 [11 favorites]
Do your future self the favor of taking the high road. He'll be glad.
posted by Dashy at 8:51 AM on January 9 [11 favorites]
I have a lot of lawyer friends who also just happen to absolutely hate capital, and will litigate for me just for the lulz
Save them for something that matters more than this.
If you really want them involved, have one of them send a formal letter about whatever you're owed if you're not paid quickly. (Also consult with them about whether your 'actually this is my last day' affected what you're due.)
posted by trig at 10:55 AM on January 9 [4 favorites]
Save them for something that matters more than this.
If you really want them involved, have one of them send a formal letter about whatever you're owed if you're not paid quickly. (Also consult with them about whether your 'actually this is my last day' affected what you're due.)
posted by trig at 10:55 AM on January 9 [4 favorites]
By the way, if you do go through with your idea (which I think would be a stupid thing to do that you'll regret) then you should really get this post deleted asap. Plausible deniability doesn't work when you've posted publicly about your intentions.
Hope your next job is better!
posted by trig at 11:01 AM on January 9 [2 favorites]
Hope your next job is better!
posted by trig at 11:01 AM on January 9 [2 favorites]
Am I ethically ok withholding this stuff until he makes my paycheck right?
No.
posted by NotMyselfRightNow at 11:22 AM on January 9
No.
posted by NotMyselfRightNow at 11:22 AM on January 9
Response by poster: I took some advice and calmed down and cooler heads prevailed. Nobody got screwed over. As it turns out, it was just a weird payroll glitch, it just happened at a really bad time.
posted by HVACDC_Bag at 1:31 PM on January 9 [16 favorites]
posted by HVACDC_Bag at 1:31 PM on January 9 [16 favorites]
Thanks for the follow up. Glad it worked out, and good luck with the next job.
posted by BlueHorse at 2:57 PM on January 9 [1 favorite]
posted by BlueHorse at 2:57 PM on January 9 [1 favorite]
I’m sorry for your loss. Good luck in finding a more peaceful job.
posted by Ollie at 4:44 PM on January 9 [4 favorites]
posted by Ollie at 4:44 PM on January 9 [4 favorites]
I'm so sorry for the loss of your brother, I can only imagine how devastating it was and is. I hope you're ok, glad to read this situation was resolved fairly, and wish you peace and healing in the days to come.
posted by bahama mama at 9:57 PM on January 9 [1 favorite]
posted by bahama mama at 9:57 PM on January 9 [1 favorite]
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There are legal methods for recovering unpaid wages, which vary by state. They are not perfect, but they have less risk of jail time.
posted by funkaspuck at 7:36 AM on January 9 [20 favorites]