Text (actual latters) change when saving to PDF from Word. WTF?
January 5, 2025 10:40 PM Subscribe
I am saving a document from Word as a PDF. Two small sections of the document change text when I do so. The word "invoice" changes to "ĒǴĤĞĒȄĖ" and the phrase "Bill to" changes to "ŦZææAdç". I just pasted those in from the PDF, so those are the actual new letters in the PDF. The two phrases are in different fonts and different styles in the original word document. Both fonts and styles are used elsewhere in the document and convert fine. WTF? How do I fix this.
Goddamit, Bill Gates better cure malaria to make up for killing WordPerfect with his crappy program.
Other potentially relevant info:
1. The word "Invoice" is in Quiche Text font in the "Normal" style. It is bolded (not as part of the style). I have looked at the font including advanced settings and nothing fishy is going on there.
2. The words "Bill to" are in Lato Bold font in the "No space" style, which is based on the Normal Style, except..no space.
3. Both fonts (including bolded) and both styles are used elsewhere in the document without issue.
4. I have looked at the permissions on my font and I believe that the license allows embedding.
5. The words remain in their designated fonts in the PDF. Just the text changes. The letters look like they're pushed very close together though.
6. I can in Adobe edit the text of the PDF and change the word INVOICE back to "INVOICE". If I do it displays in the correct font (Quiche) and looks fine.
7. I CANNOT edit what should be the words "Bill to" back to the correct letters and font. If I try it shows up as little black dots, like the dots you get when entering a password. However, If change the font to anything else, I can correct the letters. Note, again, that the Lato font here is used elsewhere in the document without incident. Oh, and I noticed in the adobe font properties box, the letter spacing was set way negative. I had to set that back to 0. But I still just get dots if I don't change fonts.
What is going on and how do I fix this and how much longer before malaria is cured so we can all switch to something better?
Goddamit, Bill Gates better cure malaria to make up for killing WordPerfect with his crappy program.
Other potentially relevant info:
1. The word "Invoice" is in Quiche Text font in the "Normal" style. It is bolded (not as part of the style). I have looked at the font including advanced settings and nothing fishy is going on there.
2. The words "Bill to" are in Lato Bold font in the "No space" style, which is based on the Normal Style, except..no space.
3. Both fonts (including bolded) and both styles are used elsewhere in the document without issue.
4. I have looked at the permissions on my font and I believe that the license allows embedding.
5. The words remain in their designated fonts in the PDF. Just the text changes. The letters look like they're pushed very close together though.
6. I can in Adobe edit the text of the PDF and change the word INVOICE back to "INVOICE". If I do it displays in the correct font (Quiche) and looks fine.
7. I CANNOT edit what should be the words "Bill to" back to the correct letters and font. If I try it shows up as little black dots, like the dots you get when entering a password. However, If change the font to anything else, I can correct the letters. Note, again, that the Lato font here is used elsewhere in the document without incident. Oh, and I noticed in the adobe font properties box, the letter spacing was set way negative. I had to set that back to 0. But I still just get dots if I don't change fonts.
What is going on and how do I fix this and how much longer before malaria is cured so we can all switch to something better?
Would Print to PDF work better than Save to PDF?
I've never attempted saving as a PDF but printing has always worked well.
posted by Awfki at 4:07 AM on January 6
I've never attempted saving as a PDF but printing has always worked well.
posted by Awfki at 4:07 AM on January 6
Response by poster: Creating the file in Adobe did the same thing. Printing to pdf did the work at all and instead gave me an error saying it couldn't find ANY 9f the fonts (fonts all listed one by one) and was repla i g with Courier. Then it just gave up and never made the filled.
The fonts are all installed. I checked and doubke-checked and re-installed. I also double checked licensed and they can be embedded in PDFs e copy Quiche requires that the PDF not be editable. I changed the settings to editable and this did not fix it. Same thing happened.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 4:23 AM on January 6
The fonts are all installed. I checked and doubke-checked and re-installed. I also double checked licensed and they can be embedded in PDFs e copy Quiche requires that the PDF not be editable. I changed the settings to editable and this did not fix it. Same thing happened.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 4:23 AM on January 6
That looks like a character encoding issue, from the way the "i"s in invoice and the "l"s in Bill both show up as the same changed characters in the pdf.
You could try re-typing those two bits of text in Word so that it's no longer using whatever alternative encoding it seems to be. Or open Notepad, copy and paste the text from Word into Notepad, then copy and paste back over the original text.
posted by lucidium at 5:20 AM on January 6
You could try re-typing those two bits of text in Word so that it's no longer using whatever alternative encoding it seems to be. Or open Notepad, copy and paste the text from Word into Notepad, then copy and paste back over the original text.
posted by lucidium at 5:20 AM on January 6
Best answer: Not sure about your version of Word, but can you try File -> Export -> Create PDF/XPS Document?
posted by Kiwi at 5:49 AM on January 6 [2 favorites]
posted by Kiwi at 5:49 AM on January 6 [2 favorites]
I don't have an answer to your issue with the text conversion, but I can offer an alternative if you want/need to create a PDF immediately.
Libreoffice Writer has a PDF export function.
If you try Libreoffice and the text conversion works, it's also another data point you can use to fix the original problem.
posted by mr_bovis at 6:01 AM on January 6 [1 favorite]
Libreoffice Writer has a PDF export function.
If you try Libreoffice and the text conversion works, it's also another data point you can use to fix the original problem.
posted by mr_bovis at 6:01 AM on January 6 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Goddamit I hate word so much. It's actually worse, now. The Word file is messed up now too.
OK, here's what I tried that did not work since my last report:
1. Export to PDF. Same
2. Paste text in from Notebook. Note that before doing this I also took what was in the Word Document and pasted it into word to see if it displayed differently. Notebook displayed the correct letters.
3. Open file in WordPerfect. It opens with an unusable mess from a formatting perspective but the fonts and text are correct. Export to PDF from Wordperfect, it displayes "INVOICE" correctly but the letterhead text converts to another font (remember, Invoice is in bold letterhead text is not).
4. Change the settings in Word to "Check format is open" when saving. (Something I found when googling text encoding based on Lucidium's comment.
5. Open the Word Fie directly in Adobe. Most of the quiche text comes through ok. The only messed up characters are numbers and the @ sign. This is actually close enough that I fixed those minor things and saved a version that I will be able to send to the client. But ok I still need to solve this problem, I can't have letterhead that won't PDF.
6. Re-install all versions of quiche. Make sure they are stored in the actual Windows/fonts folder. I still don't seem to have a "regular" version of Quiche available as an option. I feel like this must be the issue, but I don't know how to fix it. I've reinstalled the Quiche Text Regular several times.
Ok, the Word file formatting was messed up after I opened it in Adobe Acrobat, but I closed and re-opened and it fixed. But...now the Quiche Text displays as italic (Slanted letters) even though none of the settings show it as Italic. The ribbon settings show no effect applied, but the font dialog box claims it is "Bold", which it is not. Remember, when I look at my installed fonts, I see TWO versions of Regular and one of them looks italic despite being called Regular so I guess it's using that now.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 6:53 AM on January 6
OK, here's what I tried that did not work since my last report:
1. Export to PDF. Same
2. Paste text in from Notebook. Note that before doing this I also took what was in the Word Document and pasted it into word to see if it displayed differently. Notebook displayed the correct letters.
3. Open file in WordPerfect. It opens with an unusable mess from a formatting perspective but the fonts and text are correct. Export to PDF from Wordperfect, it displayes "INVOICE" correctly but the letterhead text converts to another font (remember, Invoice is in bold letterhead text is not).
4. Change the settings in Word to "Check format is open" when saving. (Something I found when googling text encoding based on Lucidium's comment.
5. Open the Word Fie directly in Adobe. Most of the quiche text comes through ok. The only messed up characters are numbers and the @ sign. This is actually close enough that I fixed those minor things and saved a version that I will be able to send to the client. But ok I still need to solve this problem, I can't have letterhead that won't PDF.
6. Re-install all versions of quiche. Make sure they are stored in the actual Windows/fonts folder. I still don't seem to have a "regular" version of Quiche available as an option. I feel like this must be the issue, but I don't know how to fix it. I've reinstalled the Quiche Text Regular several times.
Ok, the Word file formatting was messed up after I opened it in Adobe Acrobat, but I closed and re-opened and it fixed. But...now the Quiche Text displays as italic (Slanted letters) even though none of the settings show it as Italic. The ribbon settings show no effect applied, but the font dialog box claims it is "Bold", which it is not. Remember, when I look at my installed fonts, I see TWO versions of Regular and one of them looks italic despite being called Regular so I guess it's using that now.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 6:53 AM on January 6
Response by poster: OK, no wait...I thought I had fixed the word fomatting issues, but just the letthead ones. The word "Invoice" still displays all wrong. Not any of the old problems. Now it's a kerning issue or maybe it's using a ligature incorrectly? The spacing is all wrong and terrible. The settings for spacing and ligatures are unchanged, but I did attempt to fix it by trying the various options for ligature use and none those things fixed the problem. This is what it looks like now. There are no spaces after the Is. That's the spacing it's using now.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 6:57 AM on January 6
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 6:57 AM on January 6
Response by poster: Argh..so the letterhead part was fine. I was litterally looking at it and wanted to zoom out because I wanted to see something about the tabs. Zooming out completedly messed up the spacing in the letterhead portion.It is consistently the same letter-spacing issue (e.g. all Is have too much space after them.)
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 7:03 AM on January 6
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 7:03 AM on January 6
Best answer: It's a font embedding issue. Looks like Quiche is an Adobe font, and I'm guessing Microsoft just doesn't like it. Try another font, preferably one of Microsoft's, like Calibri, and you should be fine.
posted by hydra77 at 7:04 AM on January 6 [3 favorites]
posted by hydra77 at 7:04 AM on January 6 [3 favorites]
Response by poster: I don't want to change the font because it's the logo font. At least in the letterhead I'd want to leave it. Of course the letterhead is the only place it isn't working now.
But your mentioning Adobe fonts gave me an idea. I was thinking I might have it installed both as an Adobe font and as the font i bought and installed manually in Windows. So I went into Adobe Fonts and sure enough it's one of the fonts I have selected to use from there. So I removed it from Adobe fonts. Then deleted it from Windows then re-installed it.
It is displaying fine in Word and I now have a "regular" option in the Word font dialog box. But the letterhead still changes letters in the PDF file. I suppose I could turn the letterhead into an image file, but I imagine it would be annoying not to be able to select and copy an address.
Mods, I know I'm threadsitting. But it's based on trying things people are saying and giving new info that results.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 7:25 AM on January 6
But your mentioning Adobe fonts gave me an idea. I was thinking I might have it installed both as an Adobe font and as the font i bought and installed manually in Windows. So I went into Adobe Fonts and sure enough it's one of the fonts I have selected to use from there. So I removed it from Adobe fonts. Then deleted it from Windows then re-installed it.
It is displaying fine in Word and I now have a "regular" option in the Word font dialog box. But the letterhead still changes letters in the PDF file. I suppose I could turn the letterhead into an image file, but I imagine it would be annoying not to be able to select and copy an address.
Mods, I know I'm threadsitting. But it's based on trying things people are saying and giving new info that results.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 7:25 AM on January 6
Best answer: It's still an embedding issue, and Word doesn't have the same controls for making a pdf that InDesign, for example, does. But you'd be better off if you can find a place that tells the pdf maker to embed all font, not just a subset of fonts.
So, for example, in my Word, I can print to a pdf, but I have the option to print to an "Adobe pdf", which then opens a dialog box giving me some of Adobe's preset options, including a press quality pdf. Something along these lines is what you're looking for. Or better yet, a pdf/X-1a. These presets will embed the entire font.
posted by hydra77 at 8:11 AM on January 6 [1 favorite]
So, for example, in my Word, I can print to a pdf, but I have the option to print to an "Adobe pdf", which then opens a dialog box giving me some of Adobe's preset options, including a press quality pdf. Something along these lines is what you're looking for. Or better yet, a pdf/X-1a. These presets will embed the entire font.
posted by hydra77 at 8:11 AM on January 6 [1 favorite]
Seconding hydra77's comment. I don't think it's a Word issue, it's a PDF/Adobe issue, and it's because of the font embedding. "Save to PDF" tends to break things for me, so I always print to PDF. I have the same two PDF "printer" options as hydra77. The "Adobe PDF" printer has many options that you can try, but I actually tend to have better luck with the very simple "Microsoft print to PDF".
posted by odin53 at 8:33 AM on January 6 [1 favorite]
posted by odin53 at 8:33 AM on January 6 [1 favorite]
Best answer: Ok, I had already tried Print to PDF, including switching word to embed whole font instead of subset and that didn't work. I also tried opening the Word file directly in Adobe Acrobat to bypass the Word conversion settings and that didn't work.
But...SUCCESS.
File ->Export -> Create PDF/XPS file.
Export to PDF tried previously did not work. This was done with the Word settings to save with the whole font not a subset. I checked the properties in Adobe Acrobat and Quiche Regular is now embedded as a TrueType Font.
Thank you everyone. I never would have figured out what to try without all your help.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 8:38 AM on January 6 [1 favorite]
But...SUCCESS.
File ->Export -> Create PDF/XPS file.
Export to PDF tried previously did not work. This was done with the Word settings to save with the whole font not a subset. I checked the properties in Adobe Acrobat and Quiche Regular is now embedded as a TrueType Font.
Thank you everyone. I never would have figured out what to try without all your help.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 8:38 AM on January 6 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: OMG, Kiwi, I was just scrolling up to mark best answers from steps that probably helped along the way, and I'm just seeing that you said this a long time ago. I'm slapping my forehead right now for missing it.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 8:40 AM on January 6 [1 favorite]
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 8:40 AM on January 6 [1 favorite]
I just want to say I feel you pain and rage soooo much. I hate MS and their products and how they have actively made computers worse for most people over the past few decades. And most people just chuckle and stick with it. All I can add is that LibreOffice is really nice these days! Going forward, I highly recommend switching to it for all your Office type software needs. Yes you will occasionally have problems, but at least your suffering won't be paying MS to continue to make the problem worse. Good luck!
posted by SaltySalticid at 8:40 AM on January 6 [1 favorite]
posted by SaltySalticid at 8:40 AM on January 6 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Oh, for future readers, the reason some of the other quiche font was initially exporting fine: I think it has to do with how I had no Regular font installed initially. I think some places it was pulling from the BOLD version of the font and other places from the italic version (Even though it didn't display as either bold or italic for some reason). And I think the change that happened when it then exported it all wrong was from the period after I tried installing the Regular font and ended up with two regular fonts installed (one actually regular and one italic).
Hopefully nobody ever has so horrific a font experience again, but if anyone finds this, that's another thing you can look for.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 6:24 AM on January 7
Hopefully nobody ever has so horrific a font experience again, but if anyone finds this, that's another thing you can look for.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 6:24 AM on January 7
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I went into my fonts settings in windows and I had TWO "quiche text" fonts with no other style designation (medium, semi-bold, etc.) Opening those with the fonts viewer thing shows that one of them is actually italics, though it's not labelled as such, the letters are clearly slanty. I tried to re-install the Quiche Text Regular font from my downloads when I bought the font. It said there was a conflict. I deleted the two not-described quiche fonts and tried again. It installed.
But none of this fixed the problem. I still have no "Regular" option in Word (even though I restarted it) and the PDF file still has changed letters.
Oh, and the "Invoice" word, which was bold and supposed to be bold, etc. shows as bold in all the various settings places. But also does not save correctly to PDF.
The Lato seems to have resolved itself.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 11:32 PM on January 5