Warhammer alternatives for a kiddo?
December 10, 2024 10:14 AM Subscribe
My 11y.o. really wants a Warhammer set. I would love to find them an equally engaging but less violent alternative...
Warhammer's mix of game-playing and miniature painting/crafting seems great, and I totally see why this is compelling to my lego-loving, MTG and D&D playing child. However, I find Warhammer to be way too violence-centered and way too expensive. In my dreams, there's a similar game that I could introduce them to, that could easily and inexpensively be shared and spread among their (also MTG and D&D loving) friends.
Do you have any suggestions re: other games that enable social connectedness, strategy play, a rich fictional world, and crafting like Warhammer does, but without the same violence and cost?
(Additional aspect: my kiddo is nonbinary. They lean towards boy-marketed games, have a mostly boy friend group at present, love animal themed things, aren't interested in heavily girl-marketed things.)
Warhammer's mix of game-playing and miniature painting/crafting seems great, and I totally see why this is compelling to my lego-loving, MTG and D&D playing child. However, I find Warhammer to be way too violence-centered and way too expensive. In my dreams, there's a similar game that I could introduce them to, that could easily and inexpensively be shared and spread among their (also MTG and D&D loving) friends.
Do you have any suggestions re: other games that enable social connectedness, strategy play, a rich fictional world, and crafting like Warhammer does, but without the same violence and cost?
(Additional aspect: my kiddo is nonbinary. They lean towards boy-marketed games, have a mostly boy friend group at present, love animal themed things, aren't interested in heavily girl-marketed things.)
For social interaction, less graphic violence, good strategy, and tons of crafting, check out TONKS!
It's easily shared and spread and inexpensive bc it is free! Yes it's a battle simulator but that's at the core of Warhammer and honestly if you're fine with MtG (which is a duel simulator completely based on violent ideas and art) then I think this level of violence would be ok, YMMV. You could pick up a few random miniatures and paint and have them kitbash a starter set. You can also just scrounge materials from around the house.
posted by SaltySalticid at 10:35 AM on December 10, 2024
It's easily shared and spread and inexpensive bc it is free! Yes it's a battle simulator but that's at the core of Warhammer and honestly if you're fine with MtG (which is a duel simulator completely based on violent ideas and art) then I think this level of violence would be ok, YMMV. You could pick up a few random miniatures and paint and have them kitbash a starter set. You can also just scrounge materials from around the house.
posted by SaltySalticid at 10:35 AM on December 10, 2024
Does kiddo have friends that play warhammer? I ask because if they do, then the "we have ice-cream at home" substitute for warhammer just won't be very appealing.
Half of the point of the hobby is to play and share experiences with others. If everyone plays warhammer then that's just what it is.
Edit: I will say you're right to be worried about the expense. It's never just a matter of getting a warhammer 'set'. If they take up the hobby it'll be an ongoing thing.
posted by june_dodecahedron at 10:37 AM on December 10, 2024 [22 favorites]
Half of the point of the hobby is to play and share experiences with others. If everyone plays warhammer then that's just what it is.
Edit: I will say you're right to be worried about the expense. It's never just a matter of getting a warhammer 'set'. If they take up the hobby it'll be an ongoing thing.
posted by june_dodecahedron at 10:37 AM on December 10, 2024 [22 favorites]
Alternatively, I think there's a fair amount of range in Warhammer's "fearsomeness," both in how the painting is handled and set/faction selection, which you can probably exert a fair amount of control over (for the previously mentioned financial reasons).
posted by pullayup at 10:44 AM on December 10, 2024 [2 favorites]
posted by pullayup at 10:44 AM on December 10, 2024 [2 favorites]
Re: expense
MtG can also be super expensive, these are basically games intentionally working with addiction and pay-to-win type mechanics. You/kid are already invested in MtG but I would definitely agree and encourage your reticence with Warhammer based on cost alone. FWIW one of the few grownups I know who plays and actively builds his collection also happens to be generationally wealthy. There's a huge world of much less expensive indie TTRPG/wargame stuff that is very much DIY and just as fun if not moreso.
To that end, here's a whole collection of "Indie Miniature Agnostic War Games"- that means you can play with any miniatures you want, or make your own, mix and match, etc. I can't vouch for any of these personally but many of them look cool and I think you could fine one that suits your/their taste. And again, since it is "agnostic" it will be much easier/cheaper for any friends to join in, and if some of them happen to be into warhammer already, they can use that stuff to play these games. If you home in on a few, you can read reviews on BGG or comeback here to see if anyone has played them. Good luck!
posted by SaltySalticid at 10:51 AM on December 10, 2024 [1 favorite]
MtG can also be super expensive, these are basically games intentionally working with addiction and pay-to-win type mechanics. You/kid are already invested in MtG but I would definitely agree and encourage your reticence with Warhammer based on cost alone. FWIW one of the few grownups I know who plays and actively builds his collection also happens to be generationally wealthy. There's a huge world of much less expensive indie TTRPG/wargame stuff that is very much DIY and just as fun if not moreso.
To that end, here's a whole collection of "Indie Miniature Agnostic War Games"- that means you can play with any miniatures you want, or make your own, mix and match, etc. I can't vouch for any of these personally but many of them look cool and I think you could fine one that suits your/their taste. And again, since it is "agnostic" it will be much easier/cheaper for any friends to join in, and if some of them happen to be into warhammer already, they can use that stuff to play these games. If you home in on a few, you can read reviews on BGG or comeback here to see if anyone has played them. Good luck!
posted by SaltySalticid at 10:51 AM on December 10, 2024 [1 favorite]
Here are some skirmish rules that are fantasy-themed, cheaper, and brand-agnostic (but may have associated minis brands) that were recommended by a friend of mine once: Frostgrave (subreddit), Rangers of Shadow Deep (subreddit), and Song of Blades and Heroes.
I'd suggest poking around in those subreddits and talking with your kid about them. Warhammer's "dark fantasy" vibe, its specific setting, and its brand identity among friends could be what they're really interested in. But if it's mainly the crafting and battles--not especially different from a typical D&D game in violence--then these other games might work.
posted by Wobbuffet at 10:52 AM on December 10, 2024 [2 favorites]
I'd suggest poking around in those subreddits and talking with your kid about them. Warhammer's "dark fantasy" vibe, its specific setting, and its brand identity among friends could be what they're really interested in. But if it's mainly the crafting and battles--not especially different from a typical D&D game in violence--then these other games might work.
posted by Wobbuffet at 10:52 AM on December 10, 2024 [2 favorites]
Wobbuffet’s suggestion of finding out why they’re into that specific property is a good one- would emphasize this track. If it’s a social thing, substitutes might not be the thing. Carob-chip cookies are a bummer. But if they just want to learn how to paint cool models- that’s substitutable.
Battletech might be worth a look? Third party minis (Etsy, 3D printed) are much cheaper than games workshops stuff (damn I haven’t looked at their prices in a while: GW is insane!). Plenty strategic. Smallest battles are 4 units each side; but can scale. Violence is a bit more abstracted (big mechs do have squishy pilots, but that’s not the focus). The setting sits somewhere between 40k and Dune I’d say? Dark, but not as nihilistic and grim as 40k. Plenty of lore to dive into if kid is interested. The video game side of things is pretty good too, if that becomes an interest.
posted by furnace.heart at 3:22 PM on December 10, 2024 [4 favorites]
Battletech might be worth a look? Third party minis (Etsy, 3D printed) are much cheaper than games workshops stuff (damn I haven’t looked at their prices in a while: GW is insane!). Plenty strategic. Smallest battles are 4 units each side; but can scale. Violence is a bit more abstracted (big mechs do have squishy pilots, but that’s not the focus). The setting sits somewhere between 40k and Dune I’d say? Dark, but not as nihilistic and grim as 40k. Plenty of lore to dive into if kid is interested. The video game side of things is pretty good too, if that becomes an interest.
posted by furnace.heart at 3:22 PM on December 10, 2024 [4 favorites]
As a person without an income, I would pitch that the kid can play MtG or 40k, not both. If you really can't convince your kid that nihilism and 80s era Thatcherite satire isn't worth their time, you can buy new in box or lightly used sets on eBay. There really isn't anything theme-wise like 40k but there are plenty of other miniature based games as people mentioned above. Infinity or some of the Atomic Mass games might be good.
posted by fiercekitten at 6:54 PM on December 10, 2024
posted by fiercekitten at 6:54 PM on December 10, 2024
I like Battletech because the miniatures still look really good (giant mechs) but it's a lot cheaper (you need like 4-5 mechs per side rather than 30+(?) of them in Warhammer) and the theme is just "giant robots shoot each other" instead of Warhammer's "fascist super-soldiers fighting depraved demons". The beginner sets contain everything you need to play the game - miniatures, maps, rules, tokens, for around the price of one squad of Warhammer guys. An extra set of 4-5 mechs is £20-£30, whereas one squad of Warhammer guys is £40 upwards.
Regarding painting, there are ways to paint speedily and efficiently but the minis are smaller than you expect from just seeing pictures and your kid may well find painting them frustrating if they're not the sort of person to persevere with a tricky task like that.
I've not played Warhammer myself but a friend who's played different miniature wargames said the rules are simultaneously too complex and boring. My point being, if you get him one set of soldiers as a trial, he might find painting isn't as fun as he expects and the game itself is a bit dull.
I'm in a similar boat to you - my kid's friend got my kid interested in 40k. I'm not going to be able to change what their friend likes, and my kid wants to play games with their friend, so there's a limit to how much I can change their opinion on Warhammer.
posted by EndsOfInvention at 2:05 AM on December 11, 2024
Regarding painting, there are ways to paint speedily and efficiently but the minis are smaller than you expect from just seeing pictures and your kid may well find painting them frustrating if they're not the sort of person to persevere with a tricky task like that.
I've not played Warhammer myself but a friend who's played different miniature wargames said the rules are simultaneously too complex and boring. My point being, if you get him one set of soldiers as a trial, he might find painting isn't as fun as he expects and the game itself is a bit dull.
I'm in a similar boat to you - my kid's friend got my kid interested in 40k. I'm not going to be able to change what their friend likes, and my kid wants to play games with their friend, so there's a limit to how much I can change their opinion on Warhammer.
posted by EndsOfInvention at 2:05 AM on December 11, 2024
Okay, I don't have a huge suggestion beyond adding my voice to suggestions that Battletech is not a bad option for a kid that age, but I do want to make sure we're all working on the understanding that Warhammer and Warhammer 40K are two different games. They aren't interchangeable and have different asthetics.
Warhammer is your high fantasy Tolkien armies fighting it out medieval style. I'd probably reluctantly let my 11 year old play Warhammer, depending on what army he went for and how he was planning on funding it. In terms of icky content it's not too far off from DnD, but with armies instead of single miniatures.
Warhammer 40K is the space fascist super soldiers fighting space demons, aliens and whatever else is going. I would not be as cool with him playing that one, largely due to the aforementioned fascism. It's also one of the more toxic fandoms for young men as a whole, so I would want to give him a bit more time to grow first - and I say that as a keen Dark Heresy and Rogue Trader player myself.
Right now my 11 year old plays DnD and paints DnD minis from time to time. He's mostly interested in the social aspects of the game. Provided you were being generic in your post, I'd ask him which of those he's keen on and why. That'll help steer your decisions.
posted by Jilder at 4:17 AM on December 11, 2024 [2 favorites]
Warhammer is your high fantasy Tolkien armies fighting it out medieval style. I'd probably reluctantly let my 11 year old play Warhammer, depending on what army he went for and how he was planning on funding it. In terms of icky content it's not too far off from DnD, but with armies instead of single miniatures.
Warhammer 40K is the space fascist super soldiers fighting space demons, aliens and whatever else is going. I would not be as cool with him playing that one, largely due to the aforementioned fascism. It's also one of the more toxic fandoms for young men as a whole, so I would want to give him a bit more time to grow first - and I say that as a keen Dark Heresy and Rogue Trader player myself.
Right now my 11 year old plays DnD and paints DnD minis from time to time. He's mostly interested in the social aspects of the game. Provided you were being generic in your post, I'd ask him which of those he's keen on and why. That'll help steer your decisions.
posted by Jilder at 4:17 AM on December 11, 2024 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: This is very helpful - there's a lot I can look into and explore with my kiddo here.
Some responses to questions: all the friends aren't currently bought into Warhammer. One is excited about it and asking to get a set, another is playing it with his dad. Another friend is really into Battletech, so advocating for that instead of Warhammer might work! There are other friends still whose parents are surely not going to go for Warhammer given the expense. Those kids do play MtG, but shelling out some here and there for cards (and trading, playing draft-style, etc.) is much more "kiddo can spend their pocket money" possible than Warhammer seems to be (and your comments are confirming this). All this is to say that this is a moment when making choices is possible!
I appreciate the nuancing between Warhammer and Warhammer 40K, this is useful. I didn't realize that they were so different, I've been conflating them (and it sounds like 40K is the one that's giving me the very bad vibes, though I'm still not into the war-centered-ness of the game overall (for lots of little nuanced reasons: where one draws the line of this stuff and why is a whole conversation unto itself)).
All this information is going to help us approach the Warhammer interest in a "let's get creative, have some conversations about what you're seeking, and find some alternatives that you can maybe pull your friends into" kind of way. Thank you!
posted by marlys at 8:22 AM on December 11, 2024 [2 favorites]
Some responses to questions: all the friends aren't currently bought into Warhammer. One is excited about it and asking to get a set, another is playing it with his dad. Another friend is really into Battletech, so advocating for that instead of Warhammer might work! There are other friends still whose parents are surely not going to go for Warhammer given the expense. Those kids do play MtG, but shelling out some here and there for cards (and trading, playing draft-style, etc.) is much more "kiddo can spend their pocket money" possible than Warhammer seems to be (and your comments are confirming this). All this is to say that this is a moment when making choices is possible!
I appreciate the nuancing between Warhammer and Warhammer 40K, this is useful. I didn't realize that they were so different, I've been conflating them (and it sounds like 40K is the one that's giving me the very bad vibes, though I'm still not into the war-centered-ness of the game overall (for lots of little nuanced reasons: where one draws the line of this stuff and why is a whole conversation unto itself)).
All this information is going to help us approach the Warhammer interest in a "let's get creative, have some conversations about what you're seeking, and find some alternatives that you can maybe pull your friends into" kind of way. Thank you!
posted by marlys at 8:22 AM on December 11, 2024 [2 favorites]
Blood Bowl is the whacky side of the GW world, has whacky violence. Fun game. If the building figs and painting is a thing, not a bad choice.
Heroscape has come back, unpainted figs, a very standard skirmish game without a lot of fascist backstory. Pretty expensive in the new release, but a fun game.
posted by Windopaene at 10:30 AM on December 11, 2024 [2 favorites]
Heroscape has come back, unpainted figs, a very standard skirmish game without a lot of fascist backstory. Pretty expensive in the new release, but a fun game.
posted by Windopaene at 10:30 AM on December 11, 2024 [2 favorites]
Came to say Blood Bowl as an option depending on the "why" above, really it's what are the friends playing, no point being the only kid on your system.
posted by Iteki at 1:57 PM on December 11, 2024 [2 favorites]
posted by Iteki at 1:57 PM on December 11, 2024 [2 favorites]
I've played a bit of Blood Bowl, it's more or less football in a fantasy setting but the injury chart that takes players out of the game may be something you aren't comfortable with.
Any minfig based game is going to get very freaking expensive and is the number one reason I'd be steering my kid away from it. Like, well beyond what the average kid can afford. I have adult friends who stopped playing due to the cost. It is legit a fairly big barrier.
I also suspect that it may do you well to have a chat with the dad who's running for your son's friend and do some disambiguation on the game, maybe sit through a game and see how you vibe on it. It's a really math heavy, strategic sort of game that can be very good for developing the same tactical skills as chess, believe it or not. I've had similar discussions about the violence in table top role play games with other parents and have had to gently explain that no one is hitting anyone with swords, it's mostly a bit of addition and multiplication with dice involved. Watching a game will either solidify your opinion that it's not right for your kid, or maybe give you insight into what he wants from the game that can be satisfied in other ways.
posted by Jilder at 5:32 PM on December 11, 2024 [1 favorite]
Any minfig based game is going to get very freaking expensive and is the number one reason I'd be steering my kid away from it. Like, well beyond what the average kid can afford. I have adult friends who stopped playing due to the cost. It is legit a fairly big barrier.
I also suspect that it may do you well to have a chat with the dad who's running for your son's friend and do some disambiguation on the game, maybe sit through a game and see how you vibe on it. It's a really math heavy, strategic sort of game that can be very good for developing the same tactical skills as chess, believe it or not. I've had similar discussions about the violence in table top role play games with other parents and have had to gently explain that no one is hitting anyone with swords, it's mostly a bit of addition and multiplication with dice involved. Watching a game will either solidify your opinion that it's not right for your kid, or maybe give you insight into what he wants from the game that can be satisfied in other ways.
posted by Jilder at 5:32 PM on December 11, 2024 [1 favorite]
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posted by fight or flight at 10:31 AM on December 10, 2024 [1 favorite]