Influential media of the future
December 9, 2024 7:58 PM Subscribe
Lovecraftian cosmic horror mythos is present in a lot of current media & Tolkien's descriptions of fantasy races form the basis of modern-day fantasy storytelling. Are there more contemporary works that have been or are likely to be just as influential?
I watch a lot of lore analysis videos for some of my favourite video games, and I've noticed a few recurring media references/inspiration come up in the same breath as mythology or fairytales or historical art. Not just "oh this one character shares a name with this other character", but more in-depth embedding like "this game's take on cosmic horror draws a lot from Lovecraft". The base inspiration came from essentially one person (rather than something like mythology or religion where you can't necessarily trace a single source) but has formed the backbone of so many other works.
The kinds of work that I hear being referenced in this way tend to be relatively old. Are there newer works that have this level of influence, or are likely to carry this level of influence?
I'd be more interested in story material, like plot or characters or worldbuilding structure - I feel like it's easier to find more recent influencers on look and design (for instance, Stardew Valley/Harvest Moon being the model for farming Sims, or any open world RPG being compared to Legend of Zelda). Some ideas:
- Homestuck feels like it has a significantly strong potential to be one of these kinds of work, especially in using video game structures as creation myth. There's some current day media that seems to suspiciously evoke Homestuck (like that one tweet about how people inevitably reinvent Homestuck all over again) but I haven't really heard of any other media that directly draws from Homestuck asides from Gideon the Ninth which was written by a former Homestuck fanfic writer.
- Harry Potter likely set the blueprint for magical school stories, though it feels like any other magical school story is more parodying surface level elements of Harry Potter that are immediately recognisable (magic! Houses! A trio of MC + Smarty pants + Goofy Friend!) rather than the structure underlying the world of Harry Potter.
- Battle Royale fits this a lot - it's relatively recent (late 90s), it's a solo creative work by a known source, and the structure of "kids forced to kill each other until there's one last survivor" has fed into other media and even an entire video game genre.
- As much shit as Lindsay Ellis got for saying that Raya and the Last Dragon borrows a lot from Avatar the Last Adventure's whole "here is a world where each country has its own elemental theming", she was ultimately right, though I don't know if ATLA was the origin of such a concept.
Open to any ideas from any medium and even any language! There's probably examples of this for anime and manga, for instance, that I'm not super familiar with.
I watch a lot of lore analysis videos for some of my favourite video games, and I've noticed a few recurring media references/inspiration come up in the same breath as mythology or fairytales or historical art. Not just "oh this one character shares a name with this other character", but more in-depth embedding like "this game's take on cosmic horror draws a lot from Lovecraft". The base inspiration came from essentially one person (rather than something like mythology or religion where you can't necessarily trace a single source) but has formed the backbone of so many other works.
The kinds of work that I hear being referenced in this way tend to be relatively old. Are there newer works that have this level of influence, or are likely to carry this level of influence?
I'd be more interested in story material, like plot or characters or worldbuilding structure - I feel like it's easier to find more recent influencers on look and design (for instance, Stardew Valley/Harvest Moon being the model for farming Sims, or any open world RPG being compared to Legend of Zelda). Some ideas:
- Homestuck feels like it has a significantly strong potential to be one of these kinds of work, especially in using video game structures as creation myth. There's some current day media that seems to suspiciously evoke Homestuck (like that one tweet about how people inevitably reinvent Homestuck all over again) but I haven't really heard of any other media that directly draws from Homestuck asides from Gideon the Ninth which was written by a former Homestuck fanfic writer.
- Harry Potter likely set the blueprint for magical school stories, though it feels like any other magical school story is more parodying surface level elements of Harry Potter that are immediately recognisable (magic! Houses! A trio of MC + Smarty pants + Goofy Friend!) rather than the structure underlying the world of Harry Potter.
- Battle Royale fits this a lot - it's relatively recent (late 90s), it's a solo creative work by a known source, and the structure of "kids forced to kill each other until there's one last survivor" has fed into other media and even an entire video game genre.
- As much shit as Lindsay Ellis got for saying that Raya and the Last Dragon borrows a lot from Avatar the Last Adventure's whole "here is a world where each country has its own elemental theming", she was ultimately right, though I don't know if ATLA was the origin of such a concept.
Open to any ideas from any medium and even any language! There's probably examples of this for anime and manga, for instance, that I'm not super familiar with.
FWIW: Harry Potter is basically a melange of pre-existing story archetypes. It's obviously straightforward Hero Cycle stuff, but even within details it are a combination of Neil Gaiman's Books of Magic, le Guin's Wizard of Earthsea, and more.
In terms of other works that set the tone for everything after them: Neuromancer by William Gibson (along with a few other authors like Sterling) basically invented cyberpunk.
posted by griffey at 8:34 PM on December 9 [2 favorites]
In terms of other works that set the tone for everything after them: Neuromancer by William Gibson (along with a few other authors like Sterling) basically invented cyberpunk.
posted by griffey at 8:34 PM on December 9 [2 favorites]
imho the nub of Harry Potter is much older than that, it's public school stories that used to be very popular, about boys at posh schools getting into scrapes. That's where the posh school, houses, jolly friends with different archetypes, corporal punishment, comically incompetent teaching and child safety, etc come from. Of course it's massively updated and with some magic added in, it's all rather Roald Dahl imho.
posted by BungaDunga at 9:08 PM on December 9 [10 favorites]
posted by BungaDunga at 9:08 PM on December 9 [10 favorites]
The Familiar of Zero basically spawned the modern isekai light novel genre, which is still going strong and has also spread widely into manga and anime.
posted by mbrubeck at 9:42 PM on December 9 [2 favorites]
posted by mbrubeck at 9:42 PM on December 9 [2 favorites]
Romero-style zombies are one of the more successful modern myths.
posted by zamboni at 9:50 PM on December 9 [11 favorites]
posted by zamboni at 9:50 PM on December 9 [11 favorites]
Battle Royale draws heavily on William Golding's Lord of the Flies from 1954. As others have pointed out, HP is also not original or unique and you mentioned that Raya similarly borrows from previous work.
All of which is to say that there is nothing new under the sun and it's very hard to find truly original work. Almost by definition it's impossible to predict what the shifting currents of popular culture will either bury in silt for ever or leave as a light house for future generations.
But none of the things you mentioned seem like they have the requisite cultural originality to stand as a significant beacon in the way that the Cthulhu mythos does for example (HP will stand out because of it's huge popularity but that's not what you're asking).
If I had to make a complete guess then I'd say that it would be something from Korean cinema like Parasite because that is - from a Western perspective - both new and original, as well as being deeply influential and imitated already.
posted by underclocked at 10:49 PM on December 9 [1 favorite]
All of which is to say that there is nothing new under the sun and it's very hard to find truly original work. Almost by definition it's impossible to predict what the shifting currents of popular culture will either bury in silt for ever or leave as a light house for future generations.
But none of the things you mentioned seem like they have the requisite cultural originality to stand as a significant beacon in the way that the Cthulhu mythos does for example (HP will stand out because of it's huge popularity but that's not what you're asking).
If I had to make a complete guess then I'd say that it would be something from Korean cinema like Parasite because that is - from a Western perspective - both new and original, as well as being deeply influential and imitated already.
posted by underclocked at 10:49 PM on December 9 [1 favorite]
Philip K Dick's works are essentially horror novels based in a world of technology gone mad and reflecting and amplifying the madness of humans as human and machine meld together into indissoluble hybrids, all in a context in which reality itself is ripping apart under the strain.
He’s already had tremendous influence, and scared the hell out of me in ways Lovecraft didn’t even know existed.
posted by jamjam at 11:18 PM on December 9 [3 favorites]
He’s already had tremendous influence, and scared the hell out of me in ways Lovecraft didn’t even know existed.
posted by jamjam at 11:18 PM on December 9 [3 favorites]
Harry Potter isn't even the first magical school public school story - The Worst Witch series began in 1974.
posted by Jilder at 12:44 AM on December 10 [1 favorite]
posted by Jilder at 12:44 AM on December 10 [1 favorite]
Star Trek is another story so many shows in particular are in conversation with. (Star Wars, less so.)
In shoujo anime, Rose of Versailles changed everything.
posted by I claim sanctuary at 12:57 AM on December 10 [5 favorites]
In shoujo anime, Rose of Versailles changed everything.
posted by I claim sanctuary at 12:57 AM on December 10 [5 favorites]
I'd argue that Star Wars and Star Trek are pretty much the backbone of space opera, but I couldn't say if they're the first example, just the most prominent.
I suspect Stephen King may become a version of this, if he hasn't already... the strings that tie his universe together are a bit more obscure, but I suspect the impact of his sort of story and loosely-connected worldbuilding will remain.
While it wasn't the first or best, the Twilight series certainly spawned a glut of vampire stories.
In a similar vein were the 50 Shades books for spicy romance - not nearly first, and leaving a lot to be desired in comparison to even it's contemporaries, they also took a genre mainstream.
posted by stormyteal at 1:03 AM on December 10 [2 favorites]
I suspect Stephen King may become a version of this, if he hasn't already... the strings that tie his universe together are a bit more obscure, but I suspect the impact of his sort of story and loosely-connected worldbuilding will remain.
While it wasn't the first or best, the Twilight series certainly spawned a glut of vampire stories.
In a similar vein were the 50 Shades books for spicy romance - not nearly first, and leaving a lot to be desired in comparison to even it's contemporaries, they also took a genre mainstream.
posted by stormyteal at 1:03 AM on December 10 [2 favorites]
I think any work of magical realism will get compared to the works of Gabriel Garcia Marquez. I don't know how alive the genre is, but I got strong magical realism vibes from the works of China Mieville and Jeff Vandermeer, who are quite popular. And with all things steampunk I also get this vibe.
posted by SweetLiesOfBokonon at 1:44 AM on December 10 [2 favorites]
posted by SweetLiesOfBokonon at 1:44 AM on December 10 [2 favorites]
pokemon; or at least its concept - collectathon crossover games
posted by AlbertCalavicci at 3:51 AM on December 10 [2 favorites]
posted by AlbertCalavicci at 3:51 AM on December 10 [2 favorites]
If you put Tolkien, Michael Moorcock, and Fritz Lieber into a blender, you get D&D, which in turn influences lots of video games and comics.
In the future, I wouldn’t be surprised if Charles Stross’s Laundry series (Lovecraft, spies, nerdery) has legs.
posted by zompist at 4:06 AM on December 10
In the future, I wouldn’t be surprised if Charles Stross’s Laundry series (Lovecraft, spies, nerdery) has legs.
posted by zompist at 4:06 AM on December 10
If not The Poppy War itself, the some other fantasy work(s) grounded in non-Western histories and cultures are where that groundbreaking energy is at right now. Akata Witch also comes to mind.
I think there’s a trend towards neurodiverse viewpoint characters that also may shake out - the Murderbot series is one expression as is Ancillary Justice etc.
I know you’re thinking of specific people but Tolkien and C.S. Lewis were friends; Lovecraft was influenced by Poe and Dunsany. For me it’s looking at trends and then which specific ones become the example of their genre is a bit more nebulous.
posted by warriorqueen at 5:16 AM on December 10
I think there’s a trend towards neurodiverse viewpoint characters that also may shake out - the Murderbot series is one expression as is Ancillary Justice etc.
I know you’re thinking of specific people but Tolkien and C.S. Lewis were friends; Lovecraft was influenced by Poe and Dunsany. For me it’s looking at trends and then which specific ones become the example of their genre is a bit more nebulous.
posted by warriorqueen at 5:16 AM on December 10
stormyteal: "I'd argue that Star Wars and Star Trek are pretty much the backbone of space opera, but I couldn't say if they're the first example, just the most prominent."
Not to disagree, but these are both famously derivative too: Star Wars: A New Hope was based on Kurosawa's Hidden Fortress (Kurosawa, in turn, had been influenced by American westerns), and the pitch for Star Trek was "Wagon Train in space." This is not to take anything away from them. Everything is a remix.
posted by adamrice at 5:39 AM on December 10 [1 favorite]
Not to disagree, but these are both famously derivative too: Star Wars: A New Hope was based on Kurosawa's Hidden Fortress (Kurosawa, in turn, had been influenced by American westerns), and the pitch for Star Trek was "Wagon Train in space." This is not to take anything away from them. Everything is a remix.
posted by adamrice at 5:39 AM on December 10 [1 favorite]
On a different 'fantasy' angle -- the works of Neal Stephenson and William Gibson have established what near-future tech dystopias look like in a way that didn't really exist before Snow Crash and Neuromancer.
posted by AzraelBrown at 6:13 AM on December 10 [5 favorites]
posted by AzraelBrown at 6:13 AM on December 10 [5 favorites]
I think any science fiction work created after 1979 that deals with issues of capitalism must acknowledge Alien on some level.
posted by Lemkin at 8:49 AM on December 10 [1 favorite]
posted by Lemkin at 8:49 AM on December 10 [1 favorite]
If you put Tolkien, Michael Moorcock, and Fritz Lieber into a blender, you get D&D, which in turn influences lots of video games and comics.
Add to that Jack Vance's Dying Earth
posted by BungaDunga at 9:00 AM on December 10 [2 favorites]
Add to that Jack Vance's Dying Earth
posted by BungaDunga at 9:00 AM on December 10 [2 favorites]
silent spring [g] (1962) inspired dune [theconversation]
posted by HearHere at 9:05 AM on December 10
posted by HearHere at 9:05 AM on December 10
One that's missing from your "older" list is Robert E. Howard, creator of Conan the Barbarian and basically the originator of the "sword and sorcery" genre. (IOW, fantasy that isn't Tolkienesque.)
Seconding William Gibson (and possibly Neal Stephenson) as "high-tech dystopia."
Seconding George Romero for zombies.
I suspect Stephen King may become a version of this, if he hasn't already
I agree with King, and would say he's there already, although less because he's created a sprawling vaguely-connected universe and more because 1) he's given credit for more-or-less single-handedly reviving horror as a viable commercial genre and not just a minor backwater of publishing and 2) he's sort of "aggressively contemporary." Most of his novels and stories take place in the time in which they were written (to the point where some of his older works are already kind of "historical") and I think both now and in the future anyone creating horror set in the present day will have to acknowledge or grapple with the idea that they wouldn't be doing what they're doing at all if King hasn't done it first.
Wes Craven has created two film/story franchises (Nightmare on Elm Street and Scream) that are unique takes on the horror film genre, and I could easily see either or both of those being a well from which future creators draw.
George R.R. Martin has kinda dropped out of favor thanks to not working on finishing the "Song of Fire and Ice" book series and the Game of Thrones show ending being widely hated, but I do think it's likely that 50 years from now anyone creating a "realistic" or "grim & gritty" epic fantasy story is gonna cite Martin as an influence (maybe especially if the books NEVER get finished.)
posted by soundguy99 at 7:16 AM on December 11
Seconding William Gibson (and possibly Neal Stephenson) as "high-tech dystopia."
Seconding George Romero for zombies.
I suspect Stephen King may become a version of this, if he hasn't already
I agree with King, and would say he's there already, although less because he's created a sprawling vaguely-connected universe and more because 1) he's given credit for more-or-less single-handedly reviving horror as a viable commercial genre and not just a minor backwater of publishing and 2) he's sort of "aggressively contemporary." Most of his novels and stories take place in the time in which they were written (to the point where some of his older works are already kind of "historical") and I think both now and in the future anyone creating horror set in the present day will have to acknowledge or grapple with the idea that they wouldn't be doing what they're doing at all if King hasn't done it first.
Wes Craven has created two film/story franchises (Nightmare on Elm Street and Scream) that are unique takes on the horror film genre, and I could easily see either or both of those being a well from which future creators draw.
George R.R. Martin has kinda dropped out of favor thanks to not working on finishing the "Song of Fire and Ice" book series and the Game of Thrones show ending being widely hated, but I do think it's likely that 50 years from now anyone creating a "realistic" or "grim & gritty" epic fantasy story is gonna cite Martin as an influence (maybe especially if the books NEVER get finished.)
posted by soundguy99 at 7:16 AM on December 11
Some interesting answers in this thread. I would say:
-Seconding A Song of Ice and Fire, but more prominently Game of Thrones, which despite not being the first or even a particularly original gritty fantasy, has most successfully popularized the "warring factions, none quite heroic" style of storytelling. We've seen a lot more since then, and people will say things like, "It's basically Game of Thrones but in the old west/ancient China/Renaissance Italy" etc. It's become the go-to not just colloquially but as a way of understanding and creating that kind of story.
-Black Mirror also instantly created the "oh my god, it's like a Black Mirror episode" take on tech and other things that seemingly everyone understands. That happened fast! A lot of near-term speculative fiction now owes a debt of inspiration to this show.
-I asked about this in another question, but wuxia and depictions of Chinese martial arts were very heavily influenced by Legend of Condor Heroes. I was wondering specifically about Shaolin but it's related. (Probably a little too old for your purposes though)
-The Seven Samurai solidified a lot of norms in the samurai genre that have certainly percolated through many other forms of media. Guy on a quest to find the unlikely companions who will defend the underdog against the bad guys? Kurosawa wasn't the first to do it, but this portrayal has got to be the most influential.
-I feel like Evangelion probably deserves to be on this list. Not the first young people in robots show, not the first robots vs monsters show (by a long shot), etc, yet it put them together in ways that really blew a lot of minds and still does today. I feel like Japan has had a hard time leaving Evangelion behind so they collectively just decided to embrace it forever.
-It's a little unfortunate, but Avengers quickly became a touchstone of style and tone, though a large part of that is Marvel's own endless duplication of its success. But the snarky mid-action comments, group of superpowered misfits, planet-level stakes... they packaged it well enough that movies, games, and comics have been trying to capture it again ever since.
posted by BlackLeotardFront at 11:18 PM on December 11 [1 favorite]
-Seconding A Song of Ice and Fire, but more prominently Game of Thrones, which despite not being the first or even a particularly original gritty fantasy, has most successfully popularized the "warring factions, none quite heroic" style of storytelling. We've seen a lot more since then, and people will say things like, "It's basically Game of Thrones but in the old west/ancient China/Renaissance Italy" etc. It's become the go-to not just colloquially but as a way of understanding and creating that kind of story.
-Black Mirror also instantly created the "oh my god, it's like a Black Mirror episode" take on tech and other things that seemingly everyone understands. That happened fast! A lot of near-term speculative fiction now owes a debt of inspiration to this show.
-I asked about this in another question, but wuxia and depictions of Chinese martial arts were very heavily influenced by Legend of Condor Heroes. I was wondering specifically about Shaolin but it's related. (Probably a little too old for your purposes though)
-The Seven Samurai solidified a lot of norms in the samurai genre that have certainly percolated through many other forms of media. Guy on a quest to find the unlikely companions who will defend the underdog against the bad guys? Kurosawa wasn't the first to do it, but this portrayal has got to be the most influential.
-I feel like Evangelion probably deserves to be on this list. Not the first young people in robots show, not the first robots vs monsters show (by a long shot), etc, yet it put them together in ways that really blew a lot of minds and still does today. I feel like Japan has had a hard time leaving Evangelion behind so they collectively just decided to embrace it forever.
-It's a little unfortunate, but Avengers quickly became a touchstone of style and tone, though a large part of that is Marvel's own endless duplication of its success. But the snarky mid-action comments, group of superpowered misfits, planet-level stakes... they packaged it well enough that movies, games, and comics have been trying to capture it again ever since.
posted by BlackLeotardFront at 11:18 PM on December 11 [1 favorite]
Insofar as this question could be summarized as "genres that seem to owe their definition to one particular work", surely we can nominate Sailor Moon and mahou shoujo senshi anime. (I actually thought of that because Puella Magi Madoka Magica had so much influence, but that was mostly within the genre.)
The Matrix didn't define a genre, but its influence was so pervasive for so long that it may come to be seen this way. Perhaps also Die Hard?
You may wish to peruse the TVTropes article "Trope Codifier".
god this comment outs me as a certain kind of nerd
posted by dick dale the vampire at 4:45 PM on December 12 [1 favorite]
The Matrix didn't define a genre, but its influence was so pervasive for so long that it may come to be seen this way. Perhaps also Die Hard?
You may wish to peruse the TVTropes article "Trope Codifier".
god this comment outs me as a certain kind of nerd
posted by dick dale the vampire at 4:45 PM on December 12 [1 favorite]
Oh, duh: Superman.
posted by dick dale the vampire at 9:10 PM on December 12
posted by dick dale the vampire at 9:10 PM on December 12
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- Romantasy modeled on Sarah J. Maas (rather than earlier exemplars like Sharon Shinn among many others)
- Monster smut (modeled on exemplars at the link rather than precursors in fanfic mentioned at the link but probably inadequately; Goodreads has a list too)
- LitRPG (modeled on a lot of things but Wikipedia isn't wrong about how it caught on in self-published written fiction that now includes a hardcover release from a mainstream publisher)
Like your Battle Royale example, those are all of recent vintage, though they all have early examples too, like battle royales (battles royale?).posted by Wobbuffet at 8:30 PM on December 9 [1 favorite]