time travel dinosaur return
November 30, 2024 2:23 AM Subscribe
You might remember my previous bed time story question (logistics of pancakes on the moon), this one is about time travel.
"Mary" still is a feature of our bedtime stories- this time she was visiting her scientist friend, found a time machine (poorly designed- she bumped a lever and ended up in the Jurassic) and rescued the scientist- however they discovered that some dinosaurs had made it back to present day (same bump the lever mechanism that had brought Mary and stranded the scientist) - to cut a long story short (this one was a multi-night story!) after many hijinks and using a pizza to lure the dinosaurs, they took them to the vet for a check up and then took them back to the right time.
Now, my husband and I had a discussion. What would be the most ethical course of action- to return the dinosaurs to the correct time? Or would they have picked up novel diseases and potentially cause an ecological collapse? Can dinosaurs get bird flu? Would it be better to just return corpses? (This is obviously not something we discussed with our 4 and 2 year old- they were sufficiently entertained by the dinosaurs experiencing some gastric distress from the double pepperoni (extra cheese) and pooping in the time machine) - no dinosaurs were harmed in this story.
But! What is the best course of action here? The scientist was horrified to discover that it was a breeding pair that had arrived, adding urgency to the situation. (They can't stay!)
"Mary" still is a feature of our bedtime stories- this time she was visiting her scientist friend, found a time machine (poorly designed- she bumped a lever and ended up in the Jurassic) and rescued the scientist- however they discovered that some dinosaurs had made it back to present day (same bump the lever mechanism that had brought Mary and stranded the scientist) - to cut a long story short (this one was a multi-night story!) after many hijinks and using a pizza to lure the dinosaurs, they took them to the vet for a check up and then took them back to the right time.
Now, my husband and I had a discussion. What would be the most ethical course of action- to return the dinosaurs to the correct time? Or would they have picked up novel diseases and potentially cause an ecological collapse? Can dinosaurs get bird flu? Would it be better to just return corpses? (This is obviously not something we discussed with our 4 and 2 year old- they were sufficiently entertained by the dinosaurs experiencing some gastric distress from the double pepperoni (extra cheese) and pooping in the time machine) - no dinosaurs were harmed in this story.
But! What is the best course of action here? The scientist was horrified to discover that it was a breeding pair that had arrived, adding urgency to the situation. (They can't stay!)
would they have picked up novel diseases and potentially cause an ecological collapse?
No, because they didn't.
Anything that your scientists did millions of years ago as a result of using their time machine, they did millions of years ago, and the way things have worked out since is a product of that history.
Only what happened, happened. Multiple timelines are philosophically incoherent. There is only this timeline, and all that the branching of possibilities reflects is our lack of knowledge about it. Note that positing time machines within this worldview allows for self-contained causal loops but not paradoxes: it's perfectly feasible to be your own grandmother, but killing your own grandmother is simply not a a thing that ever actually happens.
In other words, what matters is not whether or not a time machine operator could go back in time and kill her own grandmother; the only thing that matters is whether or not she did. Which, given that she's the subject of the story, she clearly did not.
Quite plausibly, today's microflora would be much worse adapted to local conditions than those they would have been competing with millions of years ago, and would simply have died out as a result rather than causing a collapse.
posted by flabdablet at 2:45 AM on November 30 [2 favorites]
No, because they didn't.
Anything that your scientists did millions of years ago as a result of using their time machine, they did millions of years ago, and the way things have worked out since is a product of that history.
Only what happened, happened. Multiple timelines are philosophically incoherent. There is only this timeline, and all that the branching of possibilities reflects is our lack of knowledge about it. Note that positing time machines within this worldview allows for self-contained causal loops but not paradoxes: it's perfectly feasible to be your own grandmother, but killing your own grandmother is simply not a a thing that ever actually happens.
In other words, what matters is not whether or not a time machine operator could go back in time and kill her own grandmother; the only thing that matters is whether or not she did. Which, given that she's the subject of the story, she clearly did not.
Quite plausibly, today's microflora would be much worse adapted to local conditions than those they would have been competing with millions of years ago, and would simply have died out as a result rather than causing a collapse.
posted by flabdablet at 2:45 AM on November 30 [2 favorites]
If you do allow mutable timelines, the standard worry is that any small perturbation has unknown consequences which may end up worsening your timeline. (Or improving it, but that doesn't give the same frisson.)
From that point of view, I'm afraid Mary's and the scientist's initial visit, whether or not she brought any dinos back, may have already done the damage. (If it's microbes, just breathing and walking around will spread them. And if the scientist was stranded for a time... well, where did he poop? Bacteria city.)
But if you don't want to kill the dinosaurs, there's an alternative: leave them off, not where you got them, but on a small island. Islands are famous for being genetically isolated, so you won't cause a mass kill-off.
posted by zompist at 3:06 AM on November 30
From that point of view, I'm afraid Mary's and the scientist's initial visit, whether or not she brought any dinos back, may have already done the damage. (If it's microbes, just breathing and walking around will spread them. And if the scientist was stranded for a time... well, where did he poop? Bacteria city.)
But if you don't want to kill the dinosaurs, there's an alternative: leave them off, not where you got them, but on a small island. Islands are famous for being genetically isolated, so you won't cause a mass kill-off.
posted by zompist at 3:06 AM on November 30
The scientists should put the dinosaurs on an uninhabited island, wait a few years, then they can open it as a research facility/theme park. I'm sure it will go great. Make sure to have them bring along some investors the first time they decide to open it to the public.
posted by fight or flight at 3:37 AM on November 30 [11 favorites]
posted by fight or flight at 3:37 AM on November 30 [11 favorites]
One of the things they were concerned about in Jurassic Park (the book) is the difference in oxygen levels between the cretaceous and today. Much more oxygen in the air back then. So in a realistic Jurassic Park, some of the dinosaurs would have been pretty wheezy.
If you can get your hands on it, your family would probably enjoy The Bunjee Venture, which has a very similar plot!
posted by phunniemee at 6:00 AM on November 30
If you can get your hands on it, your family would probably enjoy The Bunjee Venture, which has a very similar plot!
posted by phunniemee at 6:00 AM on November 30
Time machines are required to have a disinfecting function which automatically removes any potentially dangerous pathogens - there’s a readout screen just below the Universal Translator dock on the right if you’re curious.
If yours didn’t have one or it was not functioning, I’m afraid you have already committed an offence and you’ll need to turn yourselves and the dinosaurs in to the appropriate authorities.
posted by Phanx at 9:12 AM on November 30 [7 favorites]
If yours didn’t have one or it was not functioning, I’m afraid you have already committed an offence and you’ll need to turn yourselves and the dinosaurs in to the appropriate authorities.
posted by Phanx at 9:12 AM on November 30 [7 favorites]
What kind of dinosaurs, specifically? Big un's, little un's? Can they swim? Can they fly? If the dinos eat each other, doesn't the problem solve itself?
posted by SPrintF at 10:25 AM on November 30
posted by SPrintF at 10:25 AM on November 30
Seems to me that Mary, the scientist and the dinos have probably brought prehistoric bacteria to today's world in the past-to-present leg of their trip. The only answer is for the two humans to feed themselves into that giant incinerator as well.
posted by Paul Slade at 1:39 AM on December 1
posted by Paul Slade at 1:39 AM on December 1
But! What is the best course of action here? The scientist was horrified to discover that it was a breeding pair that had arrived, adding urgency to the situation. (They can't stay!)
This is where you put out an interstellar message to Captain Kirk who shows up with a commandeered Klingon vessel who beams up the dinosaurs and time travels them farther into the future because it turns out that dinosaurs were really the smartest creatures on earth and they need to repopulate the species.
END SCENE.
posted by tafetta, darling! at 8:02 AM on December 2
This is where you put out an interstellar message to Captain Kirk who shows up with a commandeered Klingon vessel who beams up the dinosaurs and time travels them farther into the future because it turns out that dinosaurs were really the smartest creatures on earth and they need to repopulate the species.
END SCENE.
posted by tafetta, darling! at 8:02 AM on December 2
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posted by DarlingBri at 2:43 AM on November 30 [2 favorites]