Installed tile floor trapped dishwasher that needs replacement
October 6, 2024 3:27 PM Subscribe
The previous owner installed tile (with underlayment) in the kitchen, about 1½" high, trapping the dishwasher. I need to replace the dishwasher. Photos here. What do you think of my plan below?
I not only want to be able to remove and replace the dishwasher, at the end I want to restore the floor so it looks decent, and also in the future it won't be difficult to replace the dishwasher.
The tiles to remove are from cut 1' square tiles, and from the picture you can see I have two tiles I can easily remove by breaking and prying up, but there's another tile where I will have to cut about 2" off.
I have a Dremel Ultra Saw with a tile blade, and wood blades, and the saw has flush cut ability. I also have the small Dremel tool with diamond cutting discs.
This is my plan. Please let me know if it looks right of if you have suggestions:
• Remove dishwasher door, so the saw can reach further back towards cabinet.
• Remove the two full tiles by combination of breaking with a hammer and prying up.
• Use the tile blade on the Ultra Saw to cut the 2" portion on the right, as far as to the cabinet it can go (the cabinet will block the saw at some point).
• Use a small Dremel tool with diamond discs to cut the rest of the tile to the cabinet.
• Remove the cut tile piece.
• Remove the grout on the edges.
• Use the Ultra Saw with its flush wood cutting blade through the underlayment (there should be fir floor beneath).
• Remove the underlayment.
After the new dishwasher is installed, I intend to replace the tile and underlayment removed with something like plywood with cork tiles on top, screwing it down, so it's easily removable in the future. I probably will caulk for water resistance. Other suggestions welcome.
I not only want to be able to remove and replace the dishwasher, at the end I want to restore the floor so it looks decent, and also in the future it won't be difficult to replace the dishwasher.
The tiles to remove are from cut 1' square tiles, and from the picture you can see I have two tiles I can easily remove by breaking and prying up, but there's another tile where I will have to cut about 2" off.
I have a Dremel Ultra Saw with a tile blade, and wood blades, and the saw has flush cut ability. I also have the small Dremel tool with diamond cutting discs.
This is my plan. Please let me know if it looks right of if you have suggestions:
• Remove dishwasher door, so the saw can reach further back towards cabinet.
• Remove the two full tiles by combination of breaking with a hammer and prying up.
• Use the tile blade on the Ultra Saw to cut the 2" portion on the right, as far as to the cabinet it can go (the cabinet will block the saw at some point).
• Use a small Dremel tool with diamond discs to cut the rest of the tile to the cabinet.
• Remove the cut tile piece.
• Remove the grout on the edges.
• Use the Ultra Saw with its flush wood cutting blade through the underlayment (there should be fir floor beneath).
• Remove the underlayment.
After the new dishwasher is installed, I intend to replace the tile and underlayment removed with something like plywood with cork tiles on top, screwing it down, so it's easily removable in the future. I probably will caulk for water resistance. Other suggestions welcome.
Response by poster: Would it be easier to lift the countertop?
Lifting the countertop is not an option; way too many things to restore to put it back, plus future dishwasher installs would have the same problem.
posted by ShooBoo at 4:11 PM on October 6
Lifting the countertop is not an option; way too many things to restore to put it back, plus future dishwasher installs would have the same problem.
posted by ShooBoo at 4:11 PM on October 6
You cannot safely and rapidly cut tile without using a lot of water to remove the dust and keep the blade and tile from overheating, so your plan to cut the tile in place is probably going to wind up with a lot of broken blades, cussing, and perhaps even broken tile. Even in the best case this will be the longest, messiest, most dangerous and overall shittiest part of the job, and the cut tile seam is going to look like ass, because you won't be able to get it perfectly straight anyway.
I would just plan to remove as many whole tiles as necessary by demolition -- use a carbide tipped punch and a gentle hammer to shatter the tile in place then pry it up. Use the saw to relieve the underlayment as necessary to remove the dishwasher, and continue with your plan to cover over the gap with whatever you want. I would not put cork in a kitchen, but you do you.
It is very, very slightly possible that if you dig the grout out without shattering the tiles, you may find the tiles can be detached in one piece from the mortar by bonking them with a rubber mallet. Then you could make a drop-in tile fascia that goes back in the hole, and just caulk around the edges instead of grouting, for easier removal next time.
posted by seanmpuckett at 4:42 PM on October 6 [5 favorites]
I would just plan to remove as many whole tiles as necessary by demolition -- use a carbide tipped punch and a gentle hammer to shatter the tile in place then pry it up. Use the saw to relieve the underlayment as necessary to remove the dishwasher, and continue with your plan to cover over the gap with whatever you want. I would not put cork in a kitchen, but you do you.
It is very, very slightly possible that if you dig the grout out without shattering the tiles, you may find the tiles can be detached in one piece from the mortar by bonking them with a rubber mallet. Then you could make a drop-in tile fascia that goes back in the hole, and just caulk around the edges instead of grouting, for easier removal next time.
posted by seanmpuckett at 4:42 PM on October 6 [5 favorites]
Best answer: It's not clear from your photo, but you should be able to remove the black kick plate that is currently covering the dishwasher's adjustable legs and then screw the legs all the way down to their lowest setting. That may give you enough room between the top of the dishwasher and the countertop to lift the dishwasher over the edge of the tile.
Regardless, please reconsider putting cork flooring in a kitchen. Cork absorbs moisture and scratches easily. I have and love cook flooring but I only use it in a bedroom.
posted by mezzanayne at 4:48 PM on October 6 [15 favorites]
Regardless, please reconsider putting cork flooring in a kitchen. Cork absorbs moisture and scratches easily. I have and love cook flooring but I only use it in a bedroom.
posted by mezzanayne at 4:48 PM on October 6 [15 favorites]
Best answer: Is the dishwasher on screw down levelling feet? Can you slip a hacksaw or similar blade under and cut them off, drag the dishwasher forward and then do that to the back as well? Bit of a long shot but you never know.
posted by deadwax at 4:51 PM on October 6 [2 favorites]
posted by deadwax at 4:51 PM on October 6 [2 favorites]
Seconding the advice above to do a bit more checking before going full demolition on the tile.
Remove the black plastic kick panel at the base of the dishwasher.
As described in your linked video, open the dishwasher and unscrew the fasteners securing it to the countertop.
Remove as much of the door as you can.
Then try lifting up the dishwasher and seeing what kind of play you have to work with. Often there is the layer of insulation surrounding the three sides of the dishwasher which can be pulled out. That would give you a bit more of a gap.
Then if you can raise up the whole dishwasher a bit, follow the advice above to unscrew or cut off the adjustable front feet. That could give you even more room to work the dishwasher free.
Most dishwasher frames are a pretty thin gauge galvanized metal, thus can be cut fairly easily. And since the cabinet box of the dishwasher sits towards the top, the part toward the floor is more empty space - if you reach in and sever the supporting frame, there may be room for the box to drop down and clear the cabinet above.
There is often some play in countertops - you may be able to lift it just enough to maneuver the dishwasher out. I have used a long spreader clamp to lift a countertop while repositioning a dishwasher. (a previous owner had wired the disposal by tapping into the dishwasher wiring- Yikes!)
As you have mentioned, getting the old one out is step one. But if you can get it out without a full demolition, you will have much more room to determine a strategy for getting the new one in.
posted by tronec at 6:20 PM on October 6 [3 favorites]
Remove the black plastic kick panel at the base of the dishwasher.
As described in your linked video, open the dishwasher and unscrew the fasteners securing it to the countertop.
Remove as much of the door as you can.
Then try lifting up the dishwasher and seeing what kind of play you have to work with. Often there is the layer of insulation surrounding the three sides of the dishwasher which can be pulled out. That would give you a bit more of a gap.
Then if you can raise up the whole dishwasher a bit, follow the advice above to unscrew or cut off the adjustable front feet. That could give you even more room to work the dishwasher free.
Most dishwasher frames are a pretty thin gauge galvanized metal, thus can be cut fairly easily. And since the cabinet box of the dishwasher sits towards the top, the part toward the floor is more empty space - if you reach in and sever the supporting frame, there may be room for the box to drop down and clear the cabinet above.
There is often some play in countertops - you may be able to lift it just enough to maneuver the dishwasher out. I have used a long spreader clamp to lift a countertop while repositioning a dishwasher. (a previous owner had wired the disposal by tapping into the dishwasher wiring- Yikes!)
As you have mentioned, getting the old one out is step one. But if you can get it out without a full demolition, you will have much more room to determine a strategy for getting the new one in.
posted by tronec at 6:20 PM on October 6 [3 favorites]
Cutting the tile floor would be my absolute last resort. I would first see if, as others have mentioned, fully retracting or removing the dishwasher leveling feet provided enough clearance to allow the dishwasher to be removed. Your photos don't show the top of the dishwasher, but if there's trim on the front face of the countertop that can be removed, if it looks like it would provide a little extra clearance, that would be my step 2. If it's a long strip of trim, maybe section it off to just the dishwasher area, so you have less to remove/reinstall and also to facilitate future dishwasher replacements.
posted by xedrik at 9:03 AM on October 7
posted by xedrik at 9:03 AM on October 7
We just had the same situation at our house. We had to hire somebody to do what deadwax suggested and hacksaw the legs off - it wasn't possible to screw the legs down with the dishwasher in place. It ended up costing us hundreds of dollars but we managed to not damage the floor.
posted by codhavereturned at 10:41 AM on October 8
posted by codhavereturned at 10:41 AM on October 8
Response by poster: Got it out without having to remove tile. First, there's enough height (33 1/8") that I can get an ADA height dishwasher installed.
The tile was too high for just removing the legs to slide it out. To reduce the dishwasher's height, I made horizontal cuts on both sides with a combo of a jigsaw and reciprocating saw, then bent the top down, so the top portion slid outside the bottom portion. New photo of final result added.
This was hard, but I'm glad I followed all the advice to not remove the tile. That would have been tougher and leave a floor that would need patching (Although here's a video of a contractor who did that).
posted by ShooBoo at 7:11 PM on October 9
The tile was too high for just removing the legs to slide it out. To reduce the dishwasher's height, I made horizontal cuts on both sides with a combo of a jigsaw and reciprocating saw, then bent the top down, so the top portion slid outside the bottom portion. New photo of final result added.
This was hard, but I'm glad I followed all the advice to not remove the tile. That would have been tougher and leave a floor that would need patching (Although here's a video of a contractor who did that).
posted by ShooBoo at 7:11 PM on October 9
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posted by fritley at 3:45 PM on October 6 [2 favorites]