Name this attitude / worldview
September 27, 2024 3:47 PM Subscribe
“I suffered, so you should suffer too.” Does this attitude or sentiment have a name?
You see it expressed all the time, from “My parents smacked me when I was a kid and I turned out fine; kids who don’t get hit are coddled” to “medical residency was hell for me so I’m damned sure not going to make it easier for my residents”. It seems like a common way for trauma to be passed down, but intergenerational trauma is a different phenomenon. Is anyone able to point me in the right direction for this?
You see it expressed all the time, from “My parents smacked me when I was a kid and I turned out fine; kids who don’t get hit are coddled” to “medical residency was hell for me so I’m damned sure not going to make it easier for my residents”. It seems like a common way for trauma to be passed down, but intergenerational trauma is a different phenomenon. Is anyone able to point me in the right direction for this?
I'm not sure of a precise word, but it is frequently people trying to give meaning to their own trauma by declaring that it was necessary. After all, can you imagine if you went through all of that and it was optional?
I think "Suffering Is A Virtue" is the name I would give it.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 4:13 PM on September 27 [6 favorites]
I think "Suffering Is A Virtue" is the name I would give it.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 4:13 PM on September 27 [6 favorites]
That kind of attitude also seems to leach out when the right wing complains about immigrants and those they consider unworthy receiving any kind of social support (i.e. "they're getting "my" benefits/jobs/education/health care/etc. and they didn't have to work hard for them like I did"). In other words, "unless you worked hard like me, no soup for you!" Eventually it becomes a perverse enjoyment of being able to deny others benefits.
Some call it "Pulling up the ladder after you've made it to high ground" or "I'm all right, Jack" or ,"I got mine".
So: Maybe also a bit of SchadenFreude?
posted by Bigbootay. Tay! Tay! Blam! Aargh... at 4:29 PM on September 27 [1 favorite]
Some call it "Pulling up the ladder after you've made it to high ground" or "I'm all right, Jack" or ,"I got mine".
So: Maybe also a bit of SchadenFreude?
posted by Bigbootay. Tay! Tay! Blam! Aargh... at 4:29 PM on September 27 [1 favorite]
This isn't the same thing but it feels like it's a necessary contortion for maintaining a just-world fallacy, where whatever abuse happened to me must have served some useful function or higher purpose, because bad things can't just happen for no reason, and thus it's appropriate to inflict on on others.
posted by aubilenon at 4:31 PM on September 27 [15 favorites]
posted by aubilenon at 4:31 PM on September 27 [15 favorites]
"It never did me any harm" is sometimes used in the UK.
Best version: "I've suffered for my music, and now it's your turn" - Neil Innes from the 1970s post-Monty Python series Rutland Weekend Television
posted by Hogshead at 5:02 PM on September 27 [2 favorites]
Best version: "I've suffered for my music, and now it's your turn" - Neil Innes from the 1970s post-Monty Python series Rutland Weekend Television
posted by Hogshead at 5:02 PM on September 27 [2 favorites]
This is simply the cycle of abuse.
posted by fritley at 5:50 PM on September 27 [9 favorites]
posted by fritley at 5:50 PM on September 27 [9 favorites]
Misery Builds Character
Freudian Excuse Denial
posted by credulous at 6:26 PM on September 27 [1 favorite]
Freudian Excuse Denial
posted by credulous at 6:26 PM on September 27 [1 favorite]
Similarly to what fritley said, I would call this "perpetuating the cycle of abuse".
posted by LadyOscar at 7:05 PM on September 27
posted by LadyOscar at 7:05 PM on September 27
It's kind of like a faulty concept of justice based on the fundamental attribution error.
posted by Rykey at 8:31 PM on September 27
posted by Rykey at 8:31 PM on September 27
Misery loves company?
posted by Thorzdad at 2:02 AM on September 28 [2 favorites]
posted by Thorzdad at 2:02 AM on September 28 [2 favorites]
This same question has been hanging over my head for years now. It was nice to read something so relatable.
All I can figure out from it is that people who have this attitude believe life is a zero sum game. So if something good happens to another person, it means that something bad is going to happen to them or that they are being put at some kind of disadvantage. They think they believe in "fairness", which is a useful concept for kindergarteners, but loses utility once we start understanding life is not black and white.
One time, I was with three other friends and we happened to win a raffle for two REALLY valuable and awesome concert tickets for that same evening. I immediately volunteered to not go because I would much rather have at least two of us go than none. To avoid getting into it, I said I needed to get home anyway and got up and left. I found out the next day that all three of them ended up forfeiting the tickets because they didn't want someone to feel left out. I was dumbstruck. Why is it better for four people to not attend the concert than for two? I still can't believe that happened even though 10+ years have passed since then.
This also seemed to especially come up re: student loan debt forgiveness. Just had a debate about this with a family member, actually. He thought it was wrong and unfair to people who paid all their loans back. And I said that I *just* finished paying off my near $100k of loans, and I am all for loan forgiveness. Just because I suffered, why would I want others to suffer, also? I want there to be less suffering in the world, not more. He was just completely confused.
posted by dede at 6:18 PM on September 29 [3 favorites]
All I can figure out from it is that people who have this attitude believe life is a zero sum game. So if something good happens to another person, it means that something bad is going to happen to them or that they are being put at some kind of disadvantage. They think they believe in "fairness", which is a useful concept for kindergarteners, but loses utility once we start understanding life is not black and white.
One time, I was with three other friends and we happened to win a raffle for two REALLY valuable and awesome concert tickets for that same evening. I immediately volunteered to not go because I would much rather have at least two of us go than none. To avoid getting into it, I said I needed to get home anyway and got up and left. I found out the next day that all three of them ended up forfeiting the tickets because they didn't want someone to feel left out. I was dumbstruck. Why is it better for four people to not attend the concert than for two? I still can't believe that happened even though 10+ years have passed since then.
This also seemed to especially come up re: student loan debt forgiveness. Just had a debate about this with a family member, actually. He thought it was wrong and unfair to people who paid all their loans back. And I said that I *just* finished paying off my near $100k of loans, and I am all for loan forgiveness. Just because I suffered, why would I want others to suffer, also? I want there to be less suffering in the world, not more. He was just completely confused.
posted by dede at 6:18 PM on September 29 [3 favorites]
Paying ones dues seems accurate, it's pain Olympics adjacent
posted by I paid money to offer this... insight? at 8:41 PM on September 29
posted by I paid money to offer this... insight? at 8:41 PM on September 29
Crab mentality/crabs in a bucket.
posted by marvelousmellitus at 8:35 AM on September 30 [2 favorites]
posted by marvelousmellitus at 8:35 AM on September 30 [2 favorites]
Conservatism.
No, seriously. I've long said that liberals say, "No one should have to go through what I went through" while conservatives say, "If I had to go through that, it's not fair for others to get a free pass." This cycle of abuse also reinforces the social hierarchy, as you can only dish out punishment to those beneath you.
This attitude is not limited to those with a conservative mindset, but the overlap can't be ignored.
posted by AlSweigart at 7:19 PM on September 30 [4 favorites]
No, seriously. I've long said that liberals say, "No one should have to go through what I went through" while conservatives say, "If I had to go through that, it's not fair for others to get a free pass." This cycle of abuse also reinforces the social hierarchy, as you can only dish out punishment to those beneath you.
This attitude is not limited to those with a conservative mindset, but the overlap can't be ignored.
posted by AlSweigart at 7:19 PM on September 30 [4 favorites]
AlSweigart: The largely right-wing uproar over forgiving student loans comes to mind.
posted by bz at 1:56 PM on October 1
posted by bz at 1:56 PM on October 1
I don't know if it has a name, but one of the most concise phrasings of the idea came from @daniel_swenson on the site formerly known as Twitter: "If you suffered in life and want other people to suffer as you did because 'you turned out fine,' you did not in fact turn out fine."
posted by Halloween Jack at 12:29 PM on October 7 [2 favorites]
posted by Halloween Jack at 12:29 PM on October 7 [2 favorites]
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posted by bluedaisy at 3:57 PM on September 27 [1 favorite]