How to date better online
September 1, 2024 8:45 AM Subscribe
I (F, late-twenties) recently started online dating, with the goal of finding a long-term partner with whom to (hopefully, eventually) start a family. I have dated through an app in the past and, both then and now, my experience follows a pattern that I worry is preventing me from moving forward with any of the men I’m meeting.
I can easily discern the men who intrigue me from those who do not interest me at all after a first date. However, I almost invariably lose interest after the third or fourth date with men who previously intrigued me. This is based on the 6-7 guys with whom I’ve been on more than one date, which I realize is not a very large sample size. The switch does not seem to be associated with any major dealbreakers, it’s more of a generalized “ick” - someone I found quite attractive just a week or two ago suddenly no longer seems appealing in a myriad little ways (that sound kind of dumb and superficial) and spending time with them feels less enjoyable. It’s a bit of a chicken-or-the-egg paradox: I can’t tell if the date is no longer enjoyable because I’m not engaging as much, or whether I’m no longer enjoying dating the person because the conversation is not engaging.
Around this time, my dates tend to become more forward physically, often initiating a kiss. This just intensifies my instinct to pull away, and this is often where I end things because I don’t want to lead anyone on. If it were me, I’d be insulted to learn that someone I’m dating is attempting to push through feeling meh about me because they’re afraid to miss out on a good person. I also get this sense that my date doesn’t know me or understand who I am and their interest feels misplaced. (For the record, I think I am a great person to know, so I don't think that this is coming from a place of self-loathing and feeling undeserving of love or appreciation.)
All of my previous relationships were with people I had met in person and, even in some of those cases, I remember having a similar, somewhat avoidant reaction to the first kiss (I can best describe it as my brain going “Aaah there is a semi-stranger in my mouth”) but, after that, I would quickly get attached to the person and then enjoy the physical chemistry. With those relationships, I can also recall thinking, in the early stages, of experiences we had in common and/or of things I was very interested in learning about them. I can’t say the same about my online dates. At the same time, it probably takes longer to truly connect with someone you’ve met online, without the additional context mutual friends or a workplace might provide.
There is one guy I met online several years ago, with whom I felt I connected. We went on three dates and he came on quite strong, but then got very busy with his fledgling company and related business travel, and I broke things off after he admitted to not being available for the kind of thing I was looking for (or perhaps he was just not that interested, who knows!) Looking back, though, he was kind of full of himself and a workaholic which is unfortunately a type of person I am attracted to and can relate to, because I can be that way, though I work hard not to be.
It’s hard to tell if I’m guilty of the cliché of seeking out unavailable men, or the related cliché of looking for the kind of instant chemistry that is really more of a red flag, or whether these are simply guys I’m just not that into. I look back on men I’ve turned down after the third or fourth date, and think - there was nothing wrong with this person! They appeared to have a lot of the qualities I am looking for, so perhaps I should have gotten to know them better? Has anyone experienced something similar and still found a partner online? Should I push through these feelings and keep getting to know my dates, while holding off on intense physical contact, until I hit bigger dealbreakers? While I am also seeking opportunities to meet a partner organically, I don’t want to completely stop online dating. I enjoy meeting new people and, thanks to pretty ruthless filtering (and probably luck), I have had mostly pleasant experiences on dates. How do I make this work for me?
I can easily discern the men who intrigue me from those who do not interest me at all after a first date. However, I almost invariably lose interest after the third or fourth date with men who previously intrigued me. This is based on the 6-7 guys with whom I’ve been on more than one date, which I realize is not a very large sample size. The switch does not seem to be associated with any major dealbreakers, it’s more of a generalized “ick” - someone I found quite attractive just a week or two ago suddenly no longer seems appealing in a myriad little ways (that sound kind of dumb and superficial) and spending time with them feels less enjoyable. It’s a bit of a chicken-or-the-egg paradox: I can’t tell if the date is no longer enjoyable because I’m not engaging as much, or whether I’m no longer enjoying dating the person because the conversation is not engaging.
Around this time, my dates tend to become more forward physically, often initiating a kiss. This just intensifies my instinct to pull away, and this is often where I end things because I don’t want to lead anyone on. If it were me, I’d be insulted to learn that someone I’m dating is attempting to push through feeling meh about me because they’re afraid to miss out on a good person. I also get this sense that my date doesn’t know me or understand who I am and their interest feels misplaced. (For the record, I think I am a great person to know, so I don't think that this is coming from a place of self-loathing and feeling undeserving of love or appreciation.)
All of my previous relationships were with people I had met in person and, even in some of those cases, I remember having a similar, somewhat avoidant reaction to the first kiss (I can best describe it as my brain going “Aaah there is a semi-stranger in my mouth”) but, after that, I would quickly get attached to the person and then enjoy the physical chemistry. With those relationships, I can also recall thinking, in the early stages, of experiences we had in common and/or of things I was very interested in learning about them. I can’t say the same about my online dates. At the same time, it probably takes longer to truly connect with someone you’ve met online, without the additional context mutual friends or a workplace might provide.
There is one guy I met online several years ago, with whom I felt I connected. We went on three dates and he came on quite strong, but then got very busy with his fledgling company and related business travel, and I broke things off after he admitted to not being available for the kind of thing I was looking for (or perhaps he was just not that interested, who knows!) Looking back, though, he was kind of full of himself and a workaholic which is unfortunately a type of person I am attracted to and can relate to, because I can be that way, though I work hard not to be.
It’s hard to tell if I’m guilty of the cliché of seeking out unavailable men, or the related cliché of looking for the kind of instant chemistry that is really more of a red flag, or whether these are simply guys I’m just not that into. I look back on men I’ve turned down after the third or fourth date, and think - there was nothing wrong with this person! They appeared to have a lot of the qualities I am looking for, so perhaps I should have gotten to know them better? Has anyone experienced something similar and still found a partner online? Should I push through these feelings and keep getting to know my dates, while holding off on intense physical contact, until I hit bigger dealbreakers? While I am also seeking opportunities to meet a partner organically, I don’t want to completely stop online dating. I enjoy meeting new people and, thanks to pretty ruthless filtering (and probably luck), I have had mostly pleasant experiences on dates. How do I make this work for me?
I had some really similar struggles with dating that I eventually was able to identify as anxiety.
Physical stuff aside, are you having most of these negative feelings while you're spending time with the person, or when you're apart? I realized I was enjoying the dates, but allowing myself to overthink things when I was alone. Criteria for seeing them again: you enjoyed your time together, generally find them attractive, and they treated you well. Not admissible: ruminating on What Does It Really Mean To Be Attracted To Someone Anyway and Furthermore What Is Love And Am I Capable Of It? A lot of advice will tell you not to judge by whether someone looks good on paper and go with your gut, but I found my gut needed some checks and balances.
For the physical stuff, I realized I was just overthinking normal ebbs and flows in attraction and drive. In an established relationship, sometimes your response to a kiss is "hell yeah!", and sometimes it's more "that's nice dear". For me at least, a lot of it is hormonal. Obviously you need to feel safe and shouldn't pressure yourself to do anything you don't want to, but as long as you like looking at his face and often want to sleep with him, how ardently you feel about any specific overture is just not meaningful. And yeah, it is weird to semi-stranger in your mouth! I was surprised to find myself feeling that was after leaving my last LTR, because I've had lots of casual sex. But there's definitely a vulnerability to the whole thing. A new relationship should generally be sexually exciting, but sometimes day your third date was scheduled for just ends up not being hormonally auspicious or whatever.
Reframing these feelings helped me put my anxiety aside for long enough to discover that I really did like a particular Tinder rando, and now we're married and working on a family and I spend my time seeking out other things to be anxious about. Good luck!
posted by umwelt at 10:12 AM on September 1 [6 favorites]
Physical stuff aside, are you having most of these negative feelings while you're spending time with the person, or when you're apart? I realized I was enjoying the dates, but allowing myself to overthink things when I was alone. Criteria for seeing them again: you enjoyed your time together, generally find them attractive, and they treated you well. Not admissible: ruminating on What Does It Really Mean To Be Attracted To Someone Anyway and Furthermore What Is Love And Am I Capable Of It? A lot of advice will tell you not to judge by whether someone looks good on paper and go with your gut, but I found my gut needed some checks and balances.
For the physical stuff, I realized I was just overthinking normal ebbs and flows in attraction and drive. In an established relationship, sometimes your response to a kiss is "hell yeah!", and sometimes it's more "that's nice dear". For me at least, a lot of it is hormonal. Obviously you need to feel safe and shouldn't pressure yourself to do anything you don't want to, but as long as you like looking at his face and often want to sleep with him, how ardently you feel about any specific overture is just not meaningful. And yeah, it is weird to semi-stranger in your mouth! I was surprised to find myself feeling that was after leaving my last LTR, because I've had lots of casual sex. But there's definitely a vulnerability to the whole thing. A new relationship should generally be sexually exciting, but sometimes day your third date was scheduled for just ends up not being hormonally auspicious or whatever.
Reframing these feelings helped me put my anxiety aside for long enough to discover that I really did like a particular Tinder rando, and now we're married and working on a family and I spend my time seeking out other things to be anxious about. Good luck!
posted by umwelt at 10:12 AM on September 1 [6 favorites]
I don't know what you're doing on these dates, but that could be playing into not feeling a strong connection. I think you learn a lot about a person when you are doing something that they are passionate about.
So on the third or fourth date you might want to try something either one of you really likes - go to a tabletop gaming event, see a museum show, go on a short hike, volunteer at community event, etc. You want to do something where you are both active and can talk and engage while doing the activity. People are often more relaxed and happy when they are doing something they love and it's easier to feel sparks when someone is relaxed and happy.
Chemistry and flags are a funny thing and while you need chemistry and you must pay attention to serious red flags, I think its important not to get too caught up over-analyzing them. Sometimes chemistry is instant and sometimes it's a slow burn. Sometimes things that seem a little off are really problematic, and sometimes it takes more communication to understand what's going on.
I do think online dating creates a sense, that you can always keep looking until you find the "perfect" person because there's always more people to swipe on, but at the end of the day any long-term partner you end up with will do things that irritate and annoy you and sometimes maybe completely frustrate you, so understanding what you can live with or "the price of admission" you're willing to pay is something you need to come to terms with.
posted by brookeb at 10:18 AM on September 1 [4 favorites]
So on the third or fourth date you might want to try something either one of you really likes - go to a tabletop gaming event, see a museum show, go on a short hike, volunteer at community event, etc. You want to do something where you are both active and can talk and engage while doing the activity. People are often more relaxed and happy when they are doing something they love and it's easier to feel sparks when someone is relaxed and happy.
Chemistry and flags are a funny thing and while you need chemistry and you must pay attention to serious red flags, I think its important not to get too caught up over-analyzing them. Sometimes chemistry is instant and sometimes it's a slow burn. Sometimes things that seem a little off are really problematic, and sometimes it takes more communication to understand what's going on.
I do think online dating creates a sense, that you can always keep looking until you find the "perfect" person because there's always more people to swipe on, but at the end of the day any long-term partner you end up with will do things that irritate and annoy you and sometimes maybe completely frustrate you, so understanding what you can live with or "the price of admission" you're willing to pay is something you need to come to terms with.
posted by brookeb at 10:18 AM on September 1 [4 favorites]
The switch does not seem to be associated with any major dealbreakers, it’s more of a generalized “ick” - someone I found quite attractive just a week or two ago suddenly no longer seems appealing in a myriad little ways (that sound kind of dumb and superficial) and spending time with them feels less enjoyable. It’s a bit of a chicken-or-the-egg paradox: I can’t tell if the date is no longer enjoyable because I’m not engaging as much, or whether I’m no longer enjoying dating the person because the conversation is not engaging.
Around this time, my dates tend to become more forward physically, often initiating a kiss. This just intensifies my instinct to pull away, and this is often where I end things because I don’t want to lead anyone on. If it were me, I’d be insulted to learn that someone I’m dating is attempting to push through feeling meh about me because they’re afraid to miss out on a good person. I also get this sense that my date doesn’t know me or understand who I am and their interest feels misplaced.
This is reading as attachment issues to me? Plus mind reading. You don’t know how they feel or what they think - maybe they are just feeling things out and wondering what kind of a kisser you are? How do you know they’re pushing through feeling meh? You’re the one feeling meh. Maybe they’re wondering if they can break the ice a bit more with a kiss. Of course they don’t know you - it’s been a few dates. Are you letting them get to know you, are you getting to know them?
Feel free to pass over this comment if it didn’t land but I’m getting a withholding and self protection sense from it.
posted by St. Peepsburg at 10:46 AM on September 1 [1 favorite]
Around this time, my dates tend to become more forward physically, often initiating a kiss. This just intensifies my instinct to pull away, and this is often where I end things because I don’t want to lead anyone on. If it were me, I’d be insulted to learn that someone I’m dating is attempting to push through feeling meh about me because they’re afraid to miss out on a good person. I also get this sense that my date doesn’t know me or understand who I am and their interest feels misplaced.
This is reading as attachment issues to me? Plus mind reading. You don’t know how they feel or what they think - maybe they are just feeling things out and wondering what kind of a kisser you are? How do you know they’re pushing through feeling meh? You’re the one feeling meh. Maybe they’re wondering if they can break the ice a bit more with a kiss. Of course they don’t know you - it’s been a few dates. Are you letting them get to know you, are you getting to know them?
Feel free to pass over this comment if it didn’t land but I’m getting a withholding and self protection sense from it.
posted by St. Peepsburg at 10:46 AM on September 1 [1 favorite]
I think that one of the great things about online dating (which is how I met my spouse) is that you can be picky as hell with no apologies. If you go on 20 dates and have that response to everyone, then maybe that's a reaction to look at. But there are a lot of people out there who I...just don't want to kiss? Or don't want to kiss them enough to push through that weird first kiss feeling. You feeling that way about 6 or 7 people doesn't seem bonkers to me. It could also be you getting used to the dynamic of online dating and will change on its own. As anecdata-- I probably went on 15 dates before meeting my husband all of which were pleasant or interesting. A few involved kissing. I dated one of them for a few months before realizing it wasn't quite right. And then I met my husband and that was that. So, I say just keep doing what you're doing and go easy on yourself. Just because someone isn't a total jerk doesn't have to mean you want their tongue in your mouth or even that you want to go on more than a few dates. Be picky. Enjoy yourself as much as you can. Wishing you luck!
posted by jeszac at 10:56 AM on September 1 [5 favorites]
posted by jeszac at 10:56 AM on September 1 [5 favorites]
You might like to read about demisexuality and see if that resonates with your experiences.
posted by Mournful Bagel Song at 10:59 AM on September 1 [9 favorites]
posted by Mournful Bagel Song at 10:59 AM on September 1 [9 favorites]
I wonder if it just feels weird kissing someone who’s essentially a total stranger? After three dates these people really are still strangers to you. Maybe you’re just not ready, or it gives you the ick because it feels like they just want you for sex. I’m uncomfortable with that feeling too. Would it be better to set explicit boundaries at this point, like telling them you’re not ready to do more than kiss, or make out, or whatever the line is? I find that being clear with people in where my line is helps me a) figure out how they’re going to react to me setting a boundary, which is super important, and b) if they respond well, relax and enjoy myself without worrying.
It could also be that that’s the point where it switches from just going on dates to feeling like you’re actually dating the person, which is subtle but also significant too. Maybe this is triggering you pulling away for whatever reason?
Online dating is hard because these people really are strangers, and it can feel weird to go from complete strangers to dating within weeks. It may be that there’s someone out there who you’ll click with and won’t have this reaction. But in the meantime I’d see if slowing down and setting boundaries helps you not pull away. I’d be curious what the icks are, too. They may not be as superficial as you think.
posted by Amy93 at 11:32 AM on September 1 [4 favorites]
It could also be that that’s the point where it switches from just going on dates to feeling like you’re actually dating the person, which is subtle but also significant too. Maybe this is triggering you pulling away for whatever reason?
Online dating is hard because these people really are strangers, and it can feel weird to go from complete strangers to dating within weeks. It may be that there’s someone out there who you’ll click with and won’t have this reaction. But in the meantime I’d see if slowing down and setting boundaries helps you not pull away. I’d be curious what the icks are, too. They may not be as superficial as you think.
posted by Amy93 at 11:32 AM on September 1 [4 favorites]
Consider going off hormonal birth control. It probably won't make a difference, but for a small percentage of women, it can affect your desires, perhaps in this way.
posted by novalis_dt at 12:35 PM on September 1 [1 favorite]
posted by novalis_dt at 12:35 PM on September 1 [1 favorite]
Is it possible you are demi-sexual?
posted by jacquilynne at 12:39 PM on September 1 [3 favorites]
posted by jacquilynne at 12:39 PM on September 1 [3 favorites]
Demi-sexuality means a person is not generally not turned on by the sight or smell of a person they don't know well- they're usually only attracted to people they feel emotionally connected to.
posted by nouvelle-personne at 1:25 PM on September 1 [2 favorites]
posted by nouvelle-personne at 1:25 PM on September 1 [2 favorites]
Yeah I was gonna suggest you read the book Ace by Angela Chen. Even for people who are not on the asexual spectrum, learning about the different types of attraction can be really helpful.
posted by matildaben at 3:35 PM on September 1
posted by matildaben at 3:35 PM on September 1
it’s really easy to have a great first date, or as many great first dates as you want to with as many people as you like, as long as none of them is an outright psychopath or predator. the first-date glow, when you are trying to find something to like and every topic of conversation is new and full of revelations, is hard to sustain for longer than two or three more meetings without anything more there. becoming disillusioned or just becoming certain that you’re getting less interested, not more, at date 3/4, is absolutely standard. as normal as normal gets unless and until you meet someone who strikes you as really special.
do not let anybody spin you a fanciful nonsense tale about what this means for your own attachment style or sexuality. it means exactly nothing about that. many of these guys will have been making a physical move on the third date for the same reason you have been giving them a sincere shot in the first place: they heard or read somewhere that it’s what you’re supposed to do, that if you don’t at least try it you’re throwing away whatever chance there was. they weren’t prematurely attaching any more than you are avoiding.
personally I do not find the apps a congenial method for turning strangers into life partners as it is not possible to do so for most people without spending a long intermediate period making out with them and acting like you like them, long before you know them well enough to know if you really do. some people don't mind this or get lucky, you might too. but the fundamental structure of it is not good for people who only want to date people they find attractive and interesting.
meeting people “organically” doesn’t have to mean just waiting for luck that never comes, you can be intentional and strategic about looking for men in real life to be drawn to first, get to know a little bit second, ask out third. as was once the general idea of what “dating” even is.. this is harder than setting up meetings through an app and more time-consuming, but the blank third-date malaise is less of a hovering threat I think.
posted by queenofbithynia at 6:13 PM on September 1 [2 favorites]
do not let anybody spin you a fanciful nonsense tale about what this means for your own attachment style or sexuality. it means exactly nothing about that. many of these guys will have been making a physical move on the third date for the same reason you have been giving them a sincere shot in the first place: they heard or read somewhere that it’s what you’re supposed to do, that if you don’t at least try it you’re throwing away whatever chance there was. they weren’t prematurely attaching any more than you are avoiding.
personally I do not find the apps a congenial method for turning strangers into life partners as it is not possible to do so for most people without spending a long intermediate period making out with them and acting like you like them, long before you know them well enough to know if you really do. some people don't mind this or get lucky, you might too. but the fundamental structure of it is not good for people who only want to date people they find attractive and interesting.
meeting people “organically” doesn’t have to mean just waiting for luck that never comes, you can be intentional and strategic about looking for men in real life to be drawn to first, get to know a little bit second, ask out third. as was once the general idea of what “dating” even is.. this is harder than setting up meetings through an app and more time-consuming, but the blank third-date malaise is less of a hovering threat I think.
posted by queenofbithynia at 6:13 PM on September 1 [2 favorites]
I mean, to take a different tack, if I didn't want to have sex with somebody by the second date, I moved on. Because that kind of chemistry was important to me, and I was more focused on that than on whether we were perfect matches on paper or he was good husband material. And some guys were good for the sex part but not for anything else, and that got old too, so I kept moving on until I had both (and am engaged to the guy I found).
So I would say, if you don't want to go for it with somebody after 3-4 dates, or even 1-2, it's TOTALLY OK to let it go. Because take it from me, and other women I know, someone being a good dad or a decent partner doesn't make up for them not being good for you physically. But if kissing them feels icky, you need to listen to that. Something else is going on*, and whatever other good qualities they have don't really matter. You need to figure out what you actually want and not take a guy that's "eh close enough."
Don't settle, is what I'm saying. Spend some time with yourself and figure out your actual needs.
*could be you are ace/demi; could be something is blocking your desire; could be you are dating what you think you should want but not what you actually want; could be you don't want to settle down at all. Therapy can also help if you are having trouble untangling all that.
posted by emjaybee at 7:03 PM on September 1 [2 favorites]
So I would say, if you don't want to go for it with somebody after 3-4 dates, or even 1-2, it's TOTALLY OK to let it go. Because take it from me, and other women I know, someone being a good dad or a decent partner doesn't make up for them not being good for you physically. But if kissing them feels icky, you need to listen to that. Something else is going on*, and whatever other good qualities they have don't really matter. You need to figure out what you actually want and not take a guy that's "eh close enough."
Don't settle, is what I'm saying. Spend some time with yourself and figure out your actual needs.
*could be you are ace/demi; could be something is blocking your desire; could be you are dating what you think you should want but not what you actually want; could be you don't want to settle down at all. Therapy can also help if you are having trouble untangling all that.
posted by emjaybee at 7:03 PM on September 1 [2 favorites]
Are you sure you’re still sexually into guys? A lot of women find that their desire shifts as they get older and they end up being more clearly into women.
posted by knobknosher at 7:12 PM on September 1
posted by knobknosher at 7:12 PM on September 1
I would agree that your sample size is not that large. It takes dating or knowing a LOT of people to find a life partner. I like to tell people the example of Prince Harry, who pretty much had his pick of women, still took many girlfriends and hookups to find someone to marry.
BUT I would also say that 4-5 dates is generally enough to know if you like someone, and if you are avoiding physical contact, there’s a subconscious reason.
posted by moiraine at 7:24 PM on September 1
BUT I would also say that 4-5 dates is generally enough to know if you like someone, and if you are avoiding physical contact, there’s a subconscious reason.
posted by moiraine at 7:24 PM on September 1
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posted by lookoutbelow at 9:57 AM on September 1 [5 favorites]