What should I be aware of when planning a bathroom reno?

August 22, 2024 6:43 PM

It's time to arrange a bathroom renovation for my mother's house. It still has the original tub and flooring (eeek) from when it was purchased in 1979! It is way past overdue. I'm definitely not going to DIY this, but I feel pretty nervous even reaching out to reno companies or contractors to get this done. Any tips? What should I be asking? What should I look for?

I'm not sure why I am so anxious about planning a bathroom renovation, it's a bit silly! But I've never done anything like this before, so I don't know what to expect. Actually, I probably have a lot of anxiety/avoidance about home renovations because my father was into DIY, but never finished anything... so yeah.

I really want to get the plainest, most basic bathroom renovation. Nothing fancy, no crazy tiles, etc. Installing a new bathtub (I'm thinking a tub surround would make the most sense) and getting a new floor (it is literally ugly harvest gold vinyl from 1979, it's not cute!)... no idea what would make sense, but again something plain. We could get a bit creative with the sink and counter, but that's not the biggest goal. I have a suspicion there's probably mold/water damage in the bathroom that'll need to be remediated.

I'm sure my idea of a basic, plain, bathroom renovation is a nightmare for a contractor/reno company... because there's probably not very much money to be made from it, I'm assuming. But if I'm wrong, correct me!

Since my father died, this is the first large home-repair thing my mother has actually approved of (woohoo for progress!), but I'm not sure what to do. I know I should contact bathroom renovation companies/contractors for quotes, but... what else am I missing? What do I need to be aware of? How do I stay firm with my desire for plainness/no frills and avoid being upsold? Or are there things that are worth it when it comes to "upselling"?

(Also, if you've ever got over a "fear" of renovations, let me know, because this is dumb.)

And, again, I have zero time/patience/skill to throw at this to DIY. So no suggestions to do anything myself, please.

posted by VirginiaPlain to Home & Garden (20 answers total)

First, I would have someone check your vinyl floor to see if it contains asbestos. Some vinyls from the 70’s still contained asbestos and if so, it will need to be remediated by a specialist.

You didn’t mention how old your mom is, but if she plans to age in place it would be prudent to add things like grab bars for the tub and toilet area. She may not need them for a long time but it’s easier to add them at the beginning. Does she need an adult height toilet? How many towel bars and how much storage does she need?

You can control the price of the fixtures; most of your cost will be from labor. A reputable contractor will give you written estimates and an idea of how long it should take.
posted by serendipityrules at 7:03 PM on August 22 [2 favorites]

Best answer: If you’re going through the work of a bathroom remodel, absolutely do everything you can to make it accessible as possible. And remember accessible does not mean it has to look like a hospital bathroom.

Consider- grab bars, shower seats, levers instead of knobs, variable height/handheld shower heads, a niche to put up your foot if you want to shave your legs, a safe and out of the way to keep toiletries like shampoo, clearance through doors and around the toilet.
posted by raccoon409 at 7:21 PM on August 22 [17 favorites]

To reduce your fear try to check for unexpected situations ahead of time (I know, unexpected implies unknown but I'll give some examples). We wanted to vent outdoors to reduce chances of mildew, and contractor was fine with that but then discovered at the end of the project that the roof needed replacing. Also the existing shower was just a pan with 3 ceramic walls and a glass shower door. We decided to go with a wider shower to give ourselves more elbow room. Also we went with a "stone tile floor" to insure we would have sound footing. We also took photos BEFORE the drywall went up so IF/WHEN grab bars needed installation they would know where to hit studs and avoid pipes. Don't forget to spec receptacles for hair/body care products using the ACTUAL bottle heights (and two levels if there's more than one person using that shower). Include plenty of lighting (our bathroom has floodlight pointing down into the shower from ceiling, a combined light/fan in the center of the room and a 2 lamp fixture over the medicine cabinet and sink. Finally, I had a hip replacement in 2021 (before this renovation) and maneuvering a walker in a narrow bathroom was not easy.
posted by forthright at 7:32 PM on August 22 [1 favorite]

A few points, some of which have already been mentioned:

- I'm sure my idea of a basic, plain, bathroom renovation is a nightmare for a contractor/reno company... because there's probably not very much money to be made from it, I'm assuming. But if I'm wrong, correct me!
I've had one bathroom renovation done in the last few years, and another that I got quotes for but haven't had done yet, so I'm somewhat familiar with this territory. My understanding, at least with the folks I spoke with, is that their labor charge is roughly the same, no matter what materials I go with. (There are upcharges for things that are more difficult to install, like larger-format tile, but that was made clear from the outset, and is independent of aesthetics.) So at least in my projects, the contractor didn't care whether I went with fancy or basic materials, as the labor charge that he would bill me would be the same. What often is expensive is moving around plumbing, especially moving the toilet. So consider whether it's worth it before you decide to do that. It can be worth it in terms of resale if a different layout feels dramatically better. A realtor can (and maybe should) advise if need be.

- Relatedly, I personally would contemplate your purpose for the bathroom renovation before doing it. Is it to restore basic functionality? To allow aging in place? To provide a cosmetic facelift for resale? Since (at least in my experience) the bulk of the cost is labor, it can often make sense to use nicer materials. In other words: 2/3rds-3/4ths of the cost of a cheap bathroom renovation is labor, the cost of which is basically fixed, regardless of what grade of tile and fixtures you choose. So, depending on your goals, it can make sense to upgrade your materials by spending a few thousand more, so you get more bang for your buck out of the renovation. But again, totally your call, based on your goals. Again, if resale value is important to you, it can make sense to talk to a realtor about what's normal in your mom's area. In some neighborhoods, a tub surround is fine and it's not worth spending the extra money to tile the walls, while in some higher-priced neighborhoods, you'll take a big resale hit if you do that (a bigger hit than tiling the walls would have cost).

- Be prepared for the cost to escalate once the contractor guts the bathroom. My understanding is that many bathrooms have some problems with water/rotting, for obvious reasons. This can't really be determined until you open things up. They may have to sister joists to strengthen them if there is rotting, and/or they may have to replace the subfloor, etc. So be sure to have extra money available in case. There are situations not infrequently where the contractor raises the price a whole lot once he has you over a barrel (as in, once he's already demoed your bathroom), which can be tricky. One way to deal with this is to pay someone to gut the space first, so all the contractors can see exactly what they're dealing with, so you can hopefully get accurate estimates to start with. But this would potentially involve dealing with multiple people, and would likely prolong the project.
posted by ClaireBear at 7:53 PM on August 22 [10 favorites]

Just to provide a different perspective from serendipityrules: I might advise against testing the floor tiles for asbestos. If you test them for asbestos and they turn out to be positive, you will have to pay a lot (thousands) to get them professionally removed, and may have to declare their presence when the house is sold. We spent around $4000-5000 having a small amount of asbestos tile professionally removed several years ago. In my opinion, this was needless and the result of a lot of fear-mongering, mostly driven by personal injury lawyers. My reading indicates that you really need prolonged exposure (=years) to airborne asbestos in order to be in danger. My feeling is that if you hire someone for the job, he/she will be familiar enough with the risks of asbestos, lead paint, etc. that he/she can decide whether to wear a mask, ask to test for their presence, etc. But preemptively doing so may cost you/your mom a lot of money and basically only have the effect of lining the pockets of the expensive remediation company (and possibly lowering the house value).
posted by ClaireBear at 8:00 PM on August 22 [6 favorites]

I’m in the process of having a bathtub/ surround replacement; getting quotes. I had someone lined up, but he had a major health crisis and is retiring.

I’ve had better luck with plumbers than folks who advertise as renovators. Renovation firms around here don’t want to bid on just a simple replacement it seems.

Mine is a cast iron tub, that drives demolition costs up. I mention that upfront because a few folks have never done one and aren’t anticipating how hard that is. Others don’t want to touch that project; I understand.

I’m limiting my query to plumbers as I want to make sure everything is done to code and I want to minimize my chances of getting a leak.
posted by coldhotel at 8:26 PM on August 22 [1 favorite]

Also wanted to say that I don't think you need to worry about being pressured to be upsold, at least in my experience. I spoke with maybe 8 contractors for my second bathroom renovation (the one that hasn't happened yet). They were all basically respectful of my wishes, and provided detailed estimates of all labor costs. Some charged only labor and I would be responsible for picking out and purchasing all materials. Others provided a materials "budget" in the estimate, presumably to give me a clearer sense of a typical all-in price: for this category, I could have the contractor choose something typical in the price range listed in the estimate (e.g., a typical vanity) and charge me for it, or I could pick one out and have that line subtracted from the overall cost. So in both scenarios, the contractor is essentially only charging me for labor, and the materials decisions are all up to me, with no pressure or upsell.

You asked when it makes sense to "upsell". I spoke about this above, but wanted to clarify a bit more with an example and some hard numbers. The bathroom estimates that we got were about $40-45k, all in (labor and materials). This was not only a gut remodel of a bathroom but also moving some other walls in the area around, etc., so yours will almost certainly be far cheaper. Of these estimates, the materials were around $10-15k, if I recall, and the labor was about $30k. So labor was about 2/3 of the cost. Say that I have a typical 8x5 bathroom, with a 2.5'x5' tub that leaves 27 ft2 of floor. If I were to go with a cheap $1/ft2 bathroom tile, that would cost roughly $27 for floor tile. If I were to go with some nice $10/ft2 marble tile, that would cost $270. So I'd be paying $243 extra to go with marble on the floor, which is really a marginal cost when we're dealing with a renovation costing tens of thousands of dollars. But when someone walks into my new bathroom, a marble floor will look very different from the cheapest builder-grade tile, even though the bulk of the cost (labor) would have been the same. So, to my mind, upgrading materials, especially highly visible ones, thus often makes a lot of financial sense, because the marginal cost relative to the whole rest of the project is low, but the visual impact is large. No-frills renovations cost most of what a nicer renovation does, but they look a lot less nice. But it's hard to give specific recommendations without knowing your exact market, as ROI on bathroom remodel is highly neighborhood dependent. You don't want to over improve, which depends on what other comparable houses in your area are doing. It's not just about the cost level, but also the specific style you should go for (what's popular in your area, and what is likely to be popular for 5-10 years longer). A few realtors weighing in here can be helpful, or you can just go to some open houses and see for yourself (if you have a good eye for that kind of thing). (I've been interested in real estate for at least a decade, and I'm very good at assessing this sort of thing, if I say so myself: I'd be happy to have a look and give my opinion if you wanted to message me with your zip code and the rough specs of your mom's house in terms of house size, bedrooms, bathrooms, etc.) Of course, financial profit is not the only reason to do renovations, so if you and your mom are simply improving it for your or her comfort, you don't necessarily need to consider resale at all: one of the benefits of having a house, of course, is to ignore everyone else's preferences except your own!

As a random aside: if you do choose tile, we found some surprisingly nice tile at Floor and Decor (it's hit or miss, but there were a few hits, one of which was porcelain for under $1/ft2, but which looked much more expensive and you'd never know it was budget). Porcelain is generally better (more durable, more water resistant) than ceramic. Cost often roughly correlates with how expensive something looks, but not always. Also key in terms of the result looking good is aesthetic cohesion between the elements, both in terms of color palette and in terms of style.

Also, just to respond to coldhotel's point: if you're doing a simple swap of fixtures (tub, vanity, toilet), you might find a plumber to do it. However in my experience, plumbers are very hesitant to do anything that's not plumbing work, and charge the earth for it if they are willing (and not necessarily do a good job). For instance, demo, rebuilding a subfloor, etc. If you think you have anything rotten, or if you want to do anything other than swapping things out (for instance, if you need tiling done), I think you might get better prices and better work to have a contractor arrange it all. I also prefer to have all the work done by one entity so if there's a problem, it's clear who is responsible rather than having various parties passing the buck back and forth. You should make sure that any contractor you hire is licensed and insured, and you can check with the contractor that he will be hiring a licensed plumber to get the plumbing part done. Online reviews, read judiciously, can be helpful, as can pictures of finished result. Also, and it's probably obvious: do get several estimates (at least 3, but something like 6-8 is better). And you should expect delays: if it's the only bathroom, that can be tricky. If you pick out and order all the materials ahead of time (in consultation with the contractor about amounts), that can massively speed up the process.
posted by ClaireBear at 8:46 PM on August 22 [4 favorites]

Is there a second full bathroom in the house? If you're also budgeting in a hotel stay while this is work is being done, having the materials picked out, purchased, and delivered (if you have the garage space for them) ahead of time can help keep to the project timeline. If you can find a company that works only one job at a time (rare), that helps, too. [One, 1.5, two, and three-day turnaround times are some business models, but results vary.]

- Consider the width of the doorway (along with other universal design aspects), if aging in place is a goal.
- Your contractor may suggest borrowing space from an adjacent hall closet or similar, to make the bathroom more functional.
- If the washer and dryer are currently in the basement, a bathroom remodel can offer the opportunity to get them upstairs.
posted by Iris Gambol at 8:50 PM on August 22 [2 favorites]

Response by poster: Lots of interesting things to consider, especially in terms of accessibility.

I really struggle with squaring a simple reno with the resale value. I've always assumed I'll have to sell the house "as-is" when it comes to it (if I don't end up living in it myself), just because so much will probably have to be done anyway (such as the kitchen, etc.). Going fancy just seems dumb if this is the first room that's been properly renovated in ages. I also just imagine that who ever would buy this house would just re-reno it anyway, so why put too much effort into something that would just be torn out by new owners? (Like, I have a weird view towards renovations, I swear, bear with me lol).

I'm curious about tile vs. a surround tub. To me a surround tub just looks easier to clean/more durable/more shelves for toiletries. Which would be better for a grab bar? Wouldn't that rip off the tiles of the wall if someone grabbed it too heavily?

Definitely LOTS to think about and plan before the next steps for sure.
posted by VirginiaPlain at 9:22 PM on August 22

For accessibility I would plan on a walk-in shower not a tub, but that might be a bigger job, and maybe you prefer a tub. My neighborhood Facebook group is a great place to ask for recommendations on who can do home repairs, renovations, etc so if you have something similar you could ask for recommendations for a bathroom reno.
posted by emd3737 at 3:07 AM on August 23 [4 favorites]

+1 to raccoon409's point.

Hot tip regarding grab bars: if you are gutting the bathroom, you can have your crew reinforce the walls so that they can be placed wherever needed. (Here's a video that explains what that means if you're curious.)
posted by minervous at 5:56 AM on August 23 [2 favorites]

There are companies like Bathfitters who do 1 day remodels with barebones materials like plastic shower surrounds and tub covers, not necessarily demo and replacements. I'm not sure the cost, but if you are looking for one-stop shopping and don't care that much about aesthetics, then you can check them.
posted by The_Vegetables at 7:14 AM on August 23

Wouldn't that rip off the tiles of the wall if someone grabbed it too heavily?

properly installed grab bars are installed to the studs, which are 2x4 lumber installed vertically from ceiling to floor every 16 inches, which forms walls, or like others are saying if the studs are exposed, extra lumber called 'blocking' is added to mount grab bars to.

Adding blocking generally requires the existing surround to be removed first.
posted by The_Vegetables at 7:17 AM on August 23 [1 favorite]

why put too much effort into something that would just be torn out by new owners

Sorry to post single lines, but in general, most people do not demo and remodel their homes regularly. They live with what is there for 20+ years. Demos are becoming more common as people buy older homes that have never been remodeled, and the old stuff just wears out. But chances are, whatever you put in there will be there for 20+ years barring some super rich people move in or there is a catastrophe that causes damage.
posted by The_Vegetables at 7:20 AM on August 23 [2 favorites]

To reply to your questions in-thread, OP:

- Tub surround vs. tile. I agree that tub surrounds can be easier to keep clean (grout tends to add cleaning, although modern grouts are much better than those from decades ago, in this regard). I am not sure they are more durable: I have a tub surround that is probably a couple of decades old that is cracking. I think they're often made of fiberglass, which can get micro-cracks. But I would imagine that you could get two or three tub surrounds installed for the cost of having the walls tiled. In terms of shelving for toiletries: if you do tiling, you'll want to install a shower niche or shower ledge. You can get "tile-ready" shower niches that just need to get attached to the studs and tiled over, so they're quite simple to install. In terms of grab bars, I agree with minervous's point about having the studs reinforced, to avoid any issue of the grab bar pulling off of the wall.

- If I were you, I'd definitely do some reading on accessibility - if you google "aging in place shower bath design", you should come up with some good results. My understanding is that a shower is generally considered better than a tub for this, because it's easier to get into (no stepping high over the tub side). But I will say that if this is the only bathroom in the house, it's generally thought to harm resale value not to have at least one tub (because families with young children are usually thought to want one bathroom with a tub). Then again, as I said above, resale value may not be your primary concern. But there are various "aging in place" design elements that you could incorporate that wouldn't even look conspicuous: wider bathroom door, shower head that moves up and down, wider shower door, larger shower, etc. One big element is a "no threshold shower", which means that there's no barrier to step over to get into the shower. This can be helpful with a walker or a wheelchair. Then again, it might be too much work/expense for a retrofit. But it might be worth incorporating the aging in place elements that are easy to do.

- I really struggle with squaring a simple reno with the resale value. I've always assumed I'll have to sell the house "as-is" when it comes to it (if I don't end up living in it myself), just because so much will probably have to be done anyway (such as the kitchen, etc.). Going fancy just seems dumb if this is the first room that's been properly renovated in ages. I also just imagine that who ever would buy this house would just re-reno it anyway, so why put too much effort into something that would just be torn out by new owners? (Like, I have a weird view towards renovations, I swear, bear with me lol).
I think it's hard to say without knowing your particular market. I will say that at least in the areas of the country that I'm familiar with, people often like it if the house is at least partly done. In other words, I think there's value in having a recently-done bathroom, even if the whole house isn't done. If your house could be worth, say, $400k if it were done, and $300k in older condition: if someone buys the house with a mortgage at $300k, this doesn't given them $100k in their pocket to do the necessary renovations. So for every big project that a given house presents, you're increasingly restricting your buyer pool further to investors/cash buyers/people with a lot of money in hand. Also, having enormous numbers of necessary house projects can be overwhelming, even for people who are game and have the money. It can be easier to commit to a house where you can think that only, say, the kitchen and the floors need to be done, rather than that plus a whole bathroom remodel as well. I guess I'm just saying that I don't think that doing the bathroom is useless, just because the kitchen isn't done. I would make a distinction between a "fancy" bathroom remodel, and a stylish but budget remodel: I think you could do a stylish but budget remodel for only a few thousand more than a bare-bones remodel that looks cheap, and I would advocate for the former over the latter. I think a "fancy"/expensive remodel is probably not the wisest, however. I also think that some basic tarting up of the house - refinishing any wood floors, painting a light and neutral and popular color (right now, I'd recommend a warm white), etc. - is really important in capturing at least some of the value on the table at sale time, and can make it feel like the house has been kept up and the whole thing isn't a huge project (which, again, can be daunting and offputting to buyers). But obviously that depends on whether that's possible in the sale circumstances. Much here is dependent on local market, so it really can be worth speaking to a few realtors to understand outlay vs potential financial upside when deciding how much to spend for a particular remodel.
posted by ClaireBear at 7:34 AM on August 23 [2 favorites]

One thing you might want to consider...Raising the height of the vanity countertop. The older/ageing folks we know (who have re-done their bathrooms, of course) had the contractors raise the height of the countertops, to make them much more comfortable to work at. Less bending over, for instance. They're all very glad they did it.
posted by Thorzdad at 8:30 AM on August 23

If the fixtures work well and aren't harvest gold, consider keeping them. Older bathrooms often don't have enough outlets, have crappy lighting, no ventilation, an electrician can help improve that. I added a strip of aim-able lights, plus lights on either side of the mirror, so nice, and a vented fan. Old bathrooms didn't account for daily(or more) showers. Add a handheld sprayer to the shower, really helpful for seniors, also for bathing a pet. Maybe add a bidet to the toilet. And grab bars are much safer for everyone.

My 2nd bathroom is still unfinished after 1 guy did a bunch of work, then ghosted me, next person did some work and got a new fulltime job. I wish I'd kept the original tub and just fixed the glaring issues. I did keep the toilet which was not very old, is white.
posted by theora55 at 9:38 AM on August 23

I don’t have the same parental trauma response to renos, but I have some similar ones about spending more than a small amount of money (I even have a previous ask about it!)

What I’d recommend for getting over the fear is to start small and work your way up. Could you start with just the tub replacement? If you can just do that, then you could always do the floor part of the project afterwards. (I would imagine it’s less hassle and potential damage to install a new floor around a new tub, than to do the new floor first and then have to work a tub installation on top of that)

The downside of this is it may incur more expense and will definitely take up a longer time horizon. Upside is it breaks it into more manageable chunks and reduces risk of both tub AND flooring getting interrupted/abandoned by a single contractor. You could be slowly doing “exposure therapy” with the multiple phases. And if you don’t like the first company, you can hire a second.
posted by seemoorglass at 1:19 PM on August 23

Regarding aging in place and hand-held shower heads and their placement.
I was temporarily disabled a few years ago, and got to experience first hand the inconvenience of a poorly placed hand-held shower head.
I had to sit in the shower, and yet the seat in the shower was at the opposite end of the shower from the shower head. This meant that I could NOT reach that shower head. So give some consideration to placement. The best one was in a hotel, which had a well-designed shower, with a hand-held shower head placed on the side of the stall.
posted by dbmcd at 10:10 PM on August 23

If you are really concerned about mold/water damage, I would second the opinion above regarding tearing out the bath/flooring/toilet before getting quotes from contractors. Removing drywall and tile requires some physical effort but very little skill and very few tools. You could do it yourself or hire a minimally skilled laborer, rather than paying contractors' rates. Then, when the contractor arrives, they can give you a more accurate estimate and you won't be getting big surprises as the work progresses. It could save you a lot of money.

Also, consider letting your mother, with your input and guidance, shop for/pick her own fixtures (faucets, vanity, etc) so that she feels she has input into the final look of the bathroom.Don't go high-end but also don't buy the cheapest would be my advice on that.Also, she might enjoy picking out a paint colour. Paint is inexpensive for a small area and can easily be changed to a neutral if you're looking to resell. It would really be nice if she loved the look of the room. And yes, grab bars and other safety/ accessibility aids will really help her plan to 'age in place'. I was recently incapacitated for a month and mostly in a wheelchair. Even just washing my hands was difficult because the vanity was too high. Getting on and off of the toilet would have been much easier if it were a few inches taller and a more secure grab bar would have made bathing much easier.
posted by alltomorrowsparties at 10:40 PM on August 23