New manager, have to manage a serious underperformer.
August 13, 2024 2:39 AM Subscribe
I was recently promoted into a team lead/manager role. One of the people I now 'manage' is seriously testing me.
So, I'm three months into this promotion and I am not having fun. The person this question is about does not report into me, but I oversee and manage a portion of his work. He is also older than me.
The short of it is that he seems to be unable to turn in work on time and constantly asks for extensions, sometimes multiple times for the same piece of work. He doesn't proactively communicate on progress, so I have to probe him 2-3 times for the thing before he tells me two hours before the deadline that he isn't able to make it. He doesn't seem to understand instructions and hands in incomplete/off-the-mark documents all the time, which I then have to spend time formulating written feedback for. He doesn't seem to absorb any of it, though. I find myself repeating the same type of feedback 3 to 4 times before something actually sticks. He thinks I'm Google and constantly interrupts me while I'm working to ask me questions which an actual search engine would be better suited to answer. Oh, and he also often cuts in or tries to complete my sentence (inaccurately, in case you wonder) when I take SMALL pauses in my speech during meetings with clients.
It's been over five months since he's graduated and joined our organisation yet I am still having to micromanage every piece of communication that goes out from him as there are serious errors in grammar or spelling, which includes emails and text messages to clients, on top of reviewing his actual output AND keeping track of his deadlines and tasks. It's a lot to do in a work day on top of my actual job scope.
I've spoken countless times to his direct manager about these issues. The current solution she has given me is to:
- alleviate some of his stressors for a week or three (which includes giving him 'heavy' work to do) because he is overwhelmed. It's really giving him a 'reset'; but I'm the one who will have to pick up whatever he can't do in the meantime, obviously.
- request that he send progress updates to me daily, when he is working on something non-heavy or time-sensitive. Again, this is emotional labour on my part as I have to remind him multiple times before I get any concrete updates from him.
I am getting burnt out from five months of working with this person. I don't see it working out and I don't believe he's suited for our very detail-oriented line of work at all. I'm beginning to lose my patience with this person and feel myself actively disliking him. I'm not proud of this but I sometimes have to check my expression when I talk to him because I involuntarily start rolling my eyes or making a face.
Also, I know for a fact that he's sent screenshots of my (very reasonable but firm - I've checked with other managers) written feedback about his work/performance and shared it with other colleagues to vent about me. In return, I have started documenting all the missed deadlines/his inability to use spellcheck, etc. just in case I need to whip it out to defend myself at any point.
Help. I AM FREAKING TIRED! Starting to think that managing isn't something I actually want to do, but management likes him because he appears to be affable; they also keep harping on his potential. I don't think I'm a difficult manager as there have been interns that I've found to be great joys to work with and mentor. They've also been really appreciative for the chance to work with and learn from me. In case it matters, I'm a high performer who has been given two significant raises in 6 months because I'm exceeding expectations. I work well with some (high performing) colleagues, but I think it's safe to say that I find it a huge challenge to work with poor performers.
I've read the AskMeFi and AskaManager threads on being a new manager, but I need more specific resources on being a perfectionist (?) new manager who now to manage poor performers. Last relevant piece of information: I do not have hiring/firing power and while I do not have immediate concrete plans to leave, it's on my radar since it appears this office has a habit of keeping toxic underperformers, who then spread their negativity everywhere like a virus. I just need a solid plan to save my sanity and reputation before both of them get destroyed while I look for something suitable I can leave for.
So, I'm three months into this promotion and I am not having fun. The person this question is about does not report into me, but I oversee and manage a portion of his work. He is also older than me.
The short of it is that he seems to be unable to turn in work on time and constantly asks for extensions, sometimes multiple times for the same piece of work. He doesn't proactively communicate on progress, so I have to probe him 2-3 times for the thing before he tells me two hours before the deadline that he isn't able to make it. He doesn't seem to understand instructions and hands in incomplete/off-the-mark documents all the time, which I then have to spend time formulating written feedback for. He doesn't seem to absorb any of it, though. I find myself repeating the same type of feedback 3 to 4 times before something actually sticks. He thinks I'm Google and constantly interrupts me while I'm working to ask me questions which an actual search engine would be better suited to answer. Oh, and he also often cuts in or tries to complete my sentence (inaccurately, in case you wonder) when I take SMALL pauses in my speech during meetings with clients.
It's been over five months since he's graduated and joined our organisation yet I am still having to micromanage every piece of communication that goes out from him as there are serious errors in grammar or spelling, which includes emails and text messages to clients, on top of reviewing his actual output AND keeping track of his deadlines and tasks. It's a lot to do in a work day on top of my actual job scope.
I've spoken countless times to his direct manager about these issues. The current solution she has given me is to:
- alleviate some of his stressors for a week or three (which includes giving him 'heavy' work to do) because he is overwhelmed. It's really giving him a 'reset'; but I'm the one who will have to pick up whatever he can't do in the meantime, obviously.
- request that he send progress updates to me daily, when he is working on something non-heavy or time-sensitive. Again, this is emotional labour on my part as I have to remind him multiple times before I get any concrete updates from him.
I am getting burnt out from five months of working with this person. I don't see it working out and I don't believe he's suited for our very detail-oriented line of work at all. I'm beginning to lose my patience with this person and feel myself actively disliking him. I'm not proud of this but I sometimes have to check my expression when I talk to him because I involuntarily start rolling my eyes or making a face.
Also, I know for a fact that he's sent screenshots of my (very reasonable but firm - I've checked with other managers) written feedback about his work/performance and shared it with other colleagues to vent about me. In return, I have started documenting all the missed deadlines/his inability to use spellcheck, etc. just in case I need to whip it out to defend myself at any point.
Help. I AM FREAKING TIRED! Starting to think that managing isn't something I actually want to do, but management likes him because he appears to be affable; they also keep harping on his potential. I don't think I'm a difficult manager as there have been interns that I've found to be great joys to work with and mentor. They've also been really appreciative for the chance to work with and learn from me. In case it matters, I'm a high performer who has been given two significant raises in 6 months because I'm exceeding expectations. I work well with some (high performing) colleagues, but I think it's safe to say that I find it a huge challenge to work with poor performers.
I've read the AskMeFi and AskaManager threads on being a new manager, but I need more specific resources on being a perfectionist (?) new manager who now to manage poor performers. Last relevant piece of information: I do not have hiring/firing power and while I do not have immediate concrete plans to leave, it's on my radar since it appears this office has a habit of keeping toxic underperformers, who then spread their negativity everywhere like a virus. I just need a solid plan to save my sanity and reputation before both of them get destroyed while I look for something suitable I can leave for.
So this person is supervised by you but does not report to you? If you cannot initiate steps to put this person on a PIP yourself, because they don’t report to you, you have to position yourself so the adverse business effects cannot be blamed on you.
Presumably you report to someone. Have you asked them for guidance on this? What do they recommend?
Don’t mention the person’s energy or that they are driving you to distraction. Raise your concerns about how this affects your customers/clients/business with clear examples. Estimate how much extra time you spend absorbing their poor performance to avoid these negative effects.
Explain what you have been doing and the results. Explain that to follow this person’s manager’s suggestion for a reset will result in x additional hrs of work for you per week. That means you cannot do other key aspects of your own work and ask them how they would like you to prioritise your work.
They may ask you for suggestions of how to resolve so have ideas about what you‘d like to happen.
Perhaps the person is a poor fit for the project and could be re-deployed. What project critical tasks are they supposed to do that could be reallocated? How long could you realistically support this reset, a week vs a month? Basically, what do you want to happen.
posted by koahiatamadl at 3:27 AM on August 13 [7 favorites]
Presumably you report to someone. Have you asked them for guidance on this? What do they recommend?
Don’t mention the person’s energy or that they are driving you to distraction. Raise your concerns about how this affects your customers/clients/business with clear examples. Estimate how much extra time you spend absorbing their poor performance to avoid these negative effects.
Explain what you have been doing and the results. Explain that to follow this person’s manager’s suggestion for a reset will result in x additional hrs of work for you per week. That means you cannot do other key aspects of your own work and ask them how they would like you to prioritise your work.
They may ask you for suggestions of how to resolve so have ideas about what you‘d like to happen.
Perhaps the person is a poor fit for the project and could be re-deployed. What project critical tasks are they supposed to do that could be reallocated? How long could you realistically support this reset, a week vs a month? Basically, what do you want to happen.
posted by koahiatamadl at 3:27 AM on August 13 [7 favorites]
Response by poster: Promise I’m not threadsitting. Just want to say that yes I’ve spoken to my own manager but they would prefer that I defer to the guy’s manager on next steps. They’re also aligned with the reset and are fine with me doing extra work during this period. I assume because I’ve never let a ball drop in my entire life here. They know I’ll deal with it.
posted by antihistameme at 3:41 AM on August 13
posted by antihistameme at 3:41 AM on August 13
Stop giving “firm” feedback in written form. The loss of context and vocal tone is working against you. Give that feedback orally and ask them to provide you written “minutes” of that discussion to document their understanding. If you provide the written follow up, they’re just seeing your words again and there still could be a disconnect.
Welcome to managing. It sucks sometimes. I had this exact employee. When they went on vacation, it was like I was also on vacation in the office.
posted by Huggiesbear at 3:47 AM on August 13 [8 favorites]
Welcome to managing. It sucks sometimes. I had this exact employee. When they went on vacation, it was like I was also on vacation in the office.
posted by Huggiesbear at 3:47 AM on August 13 [8 favorites]
I assume because I’ve never let a ball drop in my entire life here.
Stop doing that. If everyone‘s solution is that you do this person‘s work that’s fine but there are consequences to that. That means your work won’t get done. You are willing to be helpful and doing it all can be a short term fix but there needs to be a very clear timeline for when that ends. If they won’t implement clear timelines you become a squeaky wheel while you spend the time you get back by being squeaky on your job search.
posted by koahiatamadl at 4:00 AM on August 13 [19 favorites]
Stop doing that. If everyone‘s solution is that you do this person‘s work that’s fine but there are consequences to that. That means your work won’t get done. You are willing to be helpful and doing it all can be a short term fix but there needs to be a very clear timeline for when that ends. If they won’t implement clear timelines you become a squeaky wheel while you spend the time you get back by being squeaky on your job search.
posted by koahiatamadl at 4:00 AM on August 13 [19 favorites]
If any part of his work is similar enough to be “repeatable,” you might try making a shared spreadsheet where you document project stages (e.g. research, draft, spell check, final) and expected completion dates, then have him fill in when he actually completes these stages. I grant that this is still doing a good portion of the mental/emotional labor you would like him to do himself, but at least it might save you from daily emails, and it lays your expectations out quite clearly.
posted by ceramicspaniel at 4:54 AM on August 13 [1 favorite]
posted by ceramicspaniel at 4:54 AM on August 13 [1 favorite]
Ask him questions about his behavior, and then truly listen to his explanations. This needs to be in-person. For example:
You: I noticed that you sent out an email with typos. I really want to understand what your process is. Can you explain to me what happened?
Him: Sorry, I'll be more careful. It won't happen again. (It will be tempting to end the conversation here, but don't!)
You: Can you walk me through your spellcheck process?
Him: I didn't have time to run a spellcheck because I was already late.
You: What led to it being late?
Him: (squirming) I had writer's block with this email. I know it's dumb but the blank page has this effect on me.
You: What if we try...
In summary, figure out what's happening from his side before you tell him the solution. There are probably factors that are preventing him from simply following your instructions.
Most of the time, this method will uncover root causes but those will be so deeply seated that they can't be changed and he'll have to get fired anyway. But sometimes it actually leads to real improvement.
posted by vienna at 4:59 AM on August 13 [18 favorites]
You: I noticed that you sent out an email with typos. I really want to understand what your process is. Can you explain to me what happened?
Him: Sorry, I'll be more careful. It won't happen again. (It will be tempting to end the conversation here, but don't!)
You: Can you walk me through your spellcheck process?
Him: I didn't have time to run a spellcheck because I was already late.
You: What led to it being late?
Him: (squirming) I had writer's block with this email. I know it's dumb but the blank page has this effect on me.
You: What if we try...
In summary, figure out what's happening from his side before you tell him the solution. There are probably factors that are preventing him from simply following your instructions.
Most of the time, this method will uncover root causes but those will be so deeply seated that they can't be changed and he'll have to get fired anyway. But sometimes it actually leads to real improvement.
posted by vienna at 4:59 AM on August 13 [18 favorites]
You haven't really spoken to your manager if your manager has not understood that you cannot keep all these balls in the air.
Speak to your manager. Let them know that X number of balls will drop, and ask which they would prefer dropped. Make this conversation entirely about your workload i.e. fully and implicitly accepting that you will continue to need to do this level of redoing and managing the problem employee's work. Don't even mention the issues you have with the problem employee. This needs to be 100% about your workload and your priorities, like, "Project X takes ABC hours, Project Y takes DEF hours, Employee Problematic takes GHI hours, and Project Z takes JKL hours. That's more hours than I have in a week."
posted by MiraK at 5:52 AM on August 13 [25 favorites]
Speak to your manager. Let them know that X number of balls will drop, and ask which they would prefer dropped. Make this conversation entirely about your workload i.e. fully and implicitly accepting that you will continue to need to do this level of redoing and managing the problem employee's work. Don't even mention the issues you have with the problem employee. This needs to be 100% about your workload and your priorities, like, "Project X takes ABC hours, Project Y takes DEF hours, Employee Problematic takes GHI hours, and Project Z takes JKL hours. That's more hours than I have in a week."
posted by MiraK at 5:52 AM on August 13 [25 favorites]
Came here to say yeah, welcome to managing. You'll always have at least one person like this, if not more. This is how all offices work. I had three or four people like this who would fly into a rage when I asked how something was going, and also demanded that I "do something" about people in other departments who weren't "always nice" and blamed all the world's problems on the fact that I was breathing twelve times a minute instead of thirteen. After two years I gave it up, because I'm just not wired to deal with people this way, though a lot of people are.
posted by Melismata at 6:01 AM on August 13 [7 favorites]
posted by Melismata at 6:01 AM on August 13 [7 favorites]
In addition, stop managing the problem employee so very much. If he doesn't report to you, then you are not in charge of giving him any strongly worded feedback.
Take a step back and manage your own work schedule with the information you have about the problem employee. If you give him a task, make sure that you set a deadline well in advance of the true deadline, such that when he asks for an extension "at the last second", you have enough time to bring this up with your manager and let them know that the work won't be done.
Do you see what I'm suggesting? Rather than complain that Problem Employee is causing you issues, start asking instead, "Well, since Problem Employee has made no progress on this after so many days, we are going to miss the deadline." Keep your manager *informed* rather than complaining to them.
posted by MiraK at 6:05 AM on August 13 [19 favorites]
Take a step back and manage your own work schedule with the information you have about the problem employee. If you give him a task, make sure that you set a deadline well in advance of the true deadline, such that when he asks for an extension "at the last second", you have enough time to bring this up with your manager and let them know that the work won't be done.
Do you see what I'm suggesting? Rather than complain that Problem Employee is causing you issues, start asking instead, "Well, since Problem Employee has made no progress on this after so many days, we are going to miss the deadline." Keep your manager *informed* rather than complaining to them.
posted by MiraK at 6:05 AM on August 13 [19 favorites]
I've spoken countless times to his direct manager about these issues. The current solution she has given me is to:
- alleviate some of his stressors for a week or three (which includes giving him 'heavy' work to do) because he is overwhelmed. It's really giving him a 'reset'; but I'm the one who will have to pick up whatever he can't do in the meantime, obviously.
- request that he send progress updates to me daily, when he is working on something non-heavy or time-sensitive. Again, this is emotional labour on my part as I have to remind him multiple times before I get any concrete updates from him.
Technically these are both things that she could do from her side. She wont want to and it's probably not a good idea to try to make that point directly, but she's externalizing the costs of him being employed there, so it's easy for her to feel those costs are acceptable.
His manager and maybe your manager see this as: he's nice, he's a recent graduate, he has potential. And maybe they're not wrong: he really hasn't been there for long, many new employees take time and hand-holding to become good employees, and it's a good thing when companies try to actually train and help employees instead of just writing them off and firing them.
However, there needs to be a plan. I wonder if you could work with his manager (and maybe yours) to put together a performance improvement plan - not a formal PIP, but an actual joint plan for improving his performance with a timeline and expectations for him to adhere to. Right now he does not meet deadlines. He does not communicate in a timely way about missing deadlines. His submitted work is unusable and requires many rounds of revision to become usable. He does not implement feedback. Presumably they're not okay with this continuing indefinitely, so what is the timeline for him to meet 90% of deadlines, give at least X days' notice about the remaining 10%, and submit work that requires at most 1 round of real revision and 1 round of final polishing? What is the timeline for intermediate goals, like him meeting 50% of deadlines, giving at least 1 day's notice about the remaining 50%, and submitting work that requires at most 3 rounds of revision?
And what steps will his manager take to ensure that he understands these are serious requirements? Right now, it sounds like he might possibly not see you as having the authority to require things of him. You say he's sent screenshots of your feedback and shared it with other colleagues to vent - that's extremely disrespectful (and unprofessional), and also implies that you're overstepping your bounds in some way. You need to be on the same page as his manager - do you have authority here, or not? If you do, then she needs to make it clear to him that his performance in his work with you counts towards his overall performance evaluation and that when it comes to this part of his work, you are his manager. If that's not the case and his manager doesn't agree to make this part of his performance evaluation, then that's a more complicated problem.
If his manager is on board with this, then she also needs to make it clear to him that he's responsible for setting up his own reminders to send you updates, meet deadlines, and so on. Technology exists these days. There is no reason to waste your time doing nanny work for him when he could set that up for himself on his own. And again, there need to be consequences for him failing to do that.
I'm beginning to lose my patience with this person and feel myself actively disliking him. I'm not proud of this but I sometimes have to check my expression when I talk to him because I involuntarily start rolling my eyes or making a face.
As somebody who unfortunately does the same - you're probably not catching yourself every time. And that's probably not making your relationship better. As much as you can, try to replace the voice that whines "why do I have to work with this idiot?" with one that says "I am being very well paid to work with this idiot" and "working with idiots is part of almost every job" (I mean, ideally without the "idiot" parts, but baby steps, you know?) Try to replace annoyance with sympathy: imagine being in a workplace where you genuinely don't understand what people want from you - you genuinely believe you're doing a good job and are repeatedly told by an eyerolling manager who's not even your manager that you're not and you don't understand what any of their feedback means - and you're drowning trying to keep up. That might not be the case - he might just be a lazy coasting jerk - but maybe he genuinely is that slow. And if so he's probably in the wrong career, but since you're not in a position to fire him, and also being fired sucks, sympathy might be a more helpful feeling to you, strictly in terms of not letting him get you down.
Oh, and he also often cuts in or tries to complete my sentence (inaccurately, in case you wonder) when I take SMALL pauses in my speech during meetings with clients.
Are you a woman, or otherwise not well placed on the external social hierarchy?
This is a tricky thing to bring up because "you're disrespecting me" and "you're undermining me" are much less concrete accusations than "you miss X% of deadlines". I'd start out by assuming he does it unintentionally (lots of us are inadvertent interrupters, me included) and speaking with him about it in a way that makes it clear you're not accusing him. But if he continues to not improve - and if you notice he doesn't do the same to others - I'd start documenting. And, depending on your work environment, smoothly shutting him down: he completes you incorrectly, you say "good guess, but I was going to say ..." or, if he's misrepresenting something important and it's okay for a little friction to show in front of these clients, "No. Please excuse Employee, he's still learning the ropes. In fact the correct amount would be..."
posted by trig at 6:11 AM on August 13 [4 favorites]
- alleviate some of his stressors for a week or three (which includes giving him 'heavy' work to do) because he is overwhelmed. It's really giving him a 'reset'; but I'm the one who will have to pick up whatever he can't do in the meantime, obviously.
- request that he send progress updates to me daily, when he is working on something non-heavy or time-sensitive. Again, this is emotional labour on my part as I have to remind him multiple times before I get any concrete updates from him.
Technically these are both things that she could do from her side. She wont want to and it's probably not a good idea to try to make that point directly, but she's externalizing the costs of him being employed there, so it's easy for her to feel those costs are acceptable.
His manager and maybe your manager see this as: he's nice, he's a recent graduate, he has potential. And maybe they're not wrong: he really hasn't been there for long, many new employees take time and hand-holding to become good employees, and it's a good thing when companies try to actually train and help employees instead of just writing them off and firing them.
However, there needs to be a plan. I wonder if you could work with his manager (and maybe yours) to put together a performance improvement plan - not a formal PIP, but an actual joint plan for improving his performance with a timeline and expectations for him to adhere to. Right now he does not meet deadlines. He does not communicate in a timely way about missing deadlines. His submitted work is unusable and requires many rounds of revision to become usable. He does not implement feedback. Presumably they're not okay with this continuing indefinitely, so what is the timeline for him to meet 90% of deadlines, give at least X days' notice about the remaining 10%, and submit work that requires at most 1 round of real revision and 1 round of final polishing? What is the timeline for intermediate goals, like him meeting 50% of deadlines, giving at least 1 day's notice about the remaining 50%, and submitting work that requires at most 3 rounds of revision?
And what steps will his manager take to ensure that he understands these are serious requirements? Right now, it sounds like he might possibly not see you as having the authority to require things of him. You say he's sent screenshots of your feedback and shared it with other colleagues to vent - that's extremely disrespectful (and unprofessional), and also implies that you're overstepping your bounds in some way. You need to be on the same page as his manager - do you have authority here, or not? If you do, then she needs to make it clear to him that his performance in his work with you counts towards his overall performance evaluation and that when it comes to this part of his work, you are his manager. If that's not the case and his manager doesn't agree to make this part of his performance evaluation, then that's a more complicated problem.
If his manager is on board with this, then she also needs to make it clear to him that he's responsible for setting up his own reminders to send you updates, meet deadlines, and so on. Technology exists these days. There is no reason to waste your time doing nanny work for him when he could set that up for himself on his own. And again, there need to be consequences for him failing to do that.
I'm beginning to lose my patience with this person and feel myself actively disliking him. I'm not proud of this but I sometimes have to check my expression when I talk to him because I involuntarily start rolling my eyes or making a face.
As somebody who unfortunately does the same - you're probably not catching yourself every time. And that's probably not making your relationship better. As much as you can, try to replace the voice that whines "why do I have to work with this idiot?" with one that says "I am being very well paid to work with this idiot" and "working with idiots is part of almost every job" (I mean, ideally without the "idiot" parts, but baby steps, you know?) Try to replace annoyance with sympathy: imagine being in a workplace where you genuinely don't understand what people want from you - you genuinely believe you're doing a good job and are repeatedly told by an eyerolling manager who's not even your manager that you're not and you don't understand what any of their feedback means - and you're drowning trying to keep up. That might not be the case - he might just be a lazy coasting jerk - but maybe he genuinely is that slow. And if so he's probably in the wrong career, but since you're not in a position to fire him, and also being fired sucks, sympathy might be a more helpful feeling to you, strictly in terms of not letting him get you down.
Oh, and he also often cuts in or tries to complete my sentence (inaccurately, in case you wonder) when I take SMALL pauses in my speech during meetings with clients.
Are you a woman, or otherwise not well placed on the external social hierarchy?
This is a tricky thing to bring up because "you're disrespecting me" and "you're undermining me" are much less concrete accusations than "you miss X% of deadlines". I'd start out by assuming he does it unintentionally (lots of us are inadvertent interrupters, me included) and speaking with him about it in a way that makes it clear you're not accusing him. But if he continues to not improve - and if you notice he doesn't do the same to others - I'd start documenting. And, depending on your work environment, smoothly shutting him down: he completes you incorrectly, you say "good guess, but I was going to say ..." or, if he's misrepresenting something important and it's okay for a little friction to show in front of these clients, "No. Please excuse Employee, he's still learning the ropes. In fact the correct amount would be..."
posted by trig at 6:11 AM on August 13 [4 favorites]
If he doesn't report to you, then you are not in charge of giving him any strongly worded feedback.
And if their direct manager ASKS you to give that kind of feedback, it's a trap.
posted by Huggiesbear at 6:11 AM on August 13 [12 favorites]
And if their direct manager ASKS you to give that kind of feedback, it's a trap.
posted by Huggiesbear at 6:11 AM on August 13 [12 favorites]
If you don't have the power to fire this person, give annual performance reviews or authorize raises, you're not their manager. You should be reporting the underperformer's work problems to their actual manager for them to deal with. If their manager balks, give the problem to your manager.
The worst position one can be in at work is to have the responsibility to make X happen but not the power to make X happen; and if someone is trying to put you in that situation you should categorically refuse by shipping the responsibility upstream.
posted by seanmpuckett at 6:36 AM on August 13 [14 favorites]
The worst position one can be in at work is to have the responsibility to make X happen but not the power to make X happen; and if someone is trying to put you in that situation you should categorically refuse by shipping the responsibility upstream.
posted by seanmpuckett at 6:36 AM on August 13 [14 favorites]
Response by poster: So he and I work on a specific project together that his manager does not have oversight of. I’m the sole person running this project, so I can’t exactly go to my client and say “this is not getting done because Guy’s late handing it in”. It goes to me for checks, then to the client. There’s nobody above me that looks after this section of the business. It pretty much feels like my head’s on the line if we fuck up, and we run the risk of ruining a perfectly good client relationship that I’ve spent a year cultivating for no reason.
Because I’m the only one running the show here, his manager isn’t able to coach/train him for this. I was given the responsibility to mentor him to get up to speed on this project specifically, which means that I have to provide him with feedback on his work within the project.
Are we saying I just stop giving him any kind of feedback and send everything to his manager to share with him? If I don’t give him feedback to correct the work, then I’ll need to be prepared to be the one actually diving in to make those changes especially because short lead-times are par for the course for what we do. There’s simply no room for his manager to be involved in the day to day review process here as she looks after a different project.
It really feels like I’m between a rock and a hard place right now. Perhaps some of you are right that I was given a trap and walked right into it.
posted by antihistameme at 6:52 AM on August 13
Because I’m the only one running the show here, his manager isn’t able to coach/train him for this. I was given the responsibility to mentor him to get up to speed on this project specifically, which means that I have to provide him with feedback on his work within the project.
Are we saying I just stop giving him any kind of feedback and send everything to his manager to share with him? If I don’t give him feedback to correct the work, then I’ll need to be prepared to be the one actually diving in to make those changes especially because short lead-times are par for the course for what we do. There’s simply no room for his manager to be involved in the day to day review process here as she looks after a different project.
It really feels like I’m between a rock and a hard place right now. Perhaps some of you are right that I was given a trap and walked right into it.
posted by antihistameme at 6:52 AM on August 13
I'm three months into this promotion and I am not having fun
Welcome to management. Now you know why managers often have trouble managing their own workload; they're fixing other people's and never can predict when those times will happen.
On the being-a-manager piece:
- don't give him written feedback on his overall performance, unless you are in a formal context (which would come from his manager.)
- As vienna says above, when there's an issue with performance, get curious. Ask a ton of questions, in person/on video call. Because in this case, it may help him, but in all cases it will help you get to the root of the problem. I would say in over 50% of the time, it's not the actual person...sometimes it's an issue with how they perceive their role and often it's a lack of systems.
I would actually start with the deadlines. "Jean-Paul, I'm still finding your work consistently late despite reminders. I really don't want you/our team to be perceived as people who can't meet deadlines. Can you help me understand what's going on with your workflow?" Go the "5 why's" route on that. "Let's dig deeper. Why is it that...?"
- as per above, highlight the impact on your time
- all managers have to higher lesser-performing people - sometimes they are truly "low performERs" but often either it's a bad match, or there aren't good systems in place. As a manager, learning how to communicate with those people and create the best workplace, processes, and procedures with the reality of human beings is how you become a high-performing manager. So if you want to continue to grow into management -- which we all have to do, management is brutal -- this is a nut to crack.
At least until you get hire/fire privileges (and trust me, once you have those and start doing your own hiring, you often find out how much worse things can be.)
On preview: It looks like a big part of the issues here are how your organization has structured responsibility for projects and resources. If they hire junior people, and then just you before it goes to the client, you already know that part of the problem is not him.
Now on to the work itself.
Are you providing all the feedback on his work (where you revise and revise and revise) in written form? I would suggest a meeting with him, and if possible have his manager present, where you take the latest first piece of work and you work through it together, again with a spirit of curiosity.
If this sounds bleeding eyes painful, it is. But sometimes there is nothing like opening a document, highlighting the first paragraph, and saying "Can you tell me why you made this decision when it's not our core messaging?" and so on and so forth. Having his manager present will help to highlight what the issues are. The idea is
1) Make it very clear what's not working,
2) Understand more about why he's not getting it right and
3) Look for solutions rather than fixes..."okay, you didn't check this number and now you know where to check it...can you start a checklist"
For spelling and grammar get him a tool and ask him to use it. It depends on the field but sometimes the easiest thing to do is just let Grammarly deal. If you get something with mistakes, send it back and tell him to use Grammarly.
posted by warriorqueen at 6:59 AM on August 13 [7 favorites]
Welcome to management. Now you know why managers often have trouble managing their own workload; they're fixing other people's and never can predict when those times will happen.
On the being-a-manager piece:
- don't give him written feedback on his overall performance, unless you are in a formal context (which would come from his manager.)
- As vienna says above, when there's an issue with performance, get curious. Ask a ton of questions, in person/on video call. Because in this case, it may help him, but in all cases it will help you get to the root of the problem. I would say in over 50% of the time, it's not the actual person...sometimes it's an issue with how they perceive their role and often it's a lack of systems.
I would actually start with the deadlines. "Jean-Paul, I'm still finding your work consistently late despite reminders. I really don't want you/our team to be perceived as people who can't meet deadlines. Can you help me understand what's going on with your workflow?" Go the "5 why's" route on that. "Let's dig deeper. Why is it that...?"
- as per above, highlight the impact on your time
- all managers have to higher lesser-performing people - sometimes they are truly "low performERs" but often either it's a bad match, or there aren't good systems in place. As a manager, learning how to communicate with those people and create the best workplace, processes, and procedures with the reality of human beings is how you become a high-performing manager. So if you want to continue to grow into management -- which we all have to do, management is brutal -- this is a nut to crack.
At least until you get hire/fire privileges (and trust me, once you have those and start doing your own hiring, you often find out how much worse things can be.)
On preview: It looks like a big part of the issues here are how your organization has structured responsibility for projects and resources. If they hire junior people, and then just you before it goes to the client, you already know that part of the problem is not him.
Now on to the work itself.
Are you providing all the feedback on his work (where you revise and revise and revise) in written form? I would suggest a meeting with him, and if possible have his manager present, where you take the latest first piece of work and you work through it together, again with a spirit of curiosity.
If this sounds bleeding eyes painful, it is. But sometimes there is nothing like opening a document, highlighting the first paragraph, and saying "Can you tell me why you made this decision when it's not our core messaging?" and so on and so forth. Having his manager present will help to highlight what the issues are. The idea is
1) Make it very clear what's not working,
2) Understand more about why he's not getting it right and
3) Look for solutions rather than fixes..."okay, you didn't check this number and now you know where to check it...can you start a checklist"
For spelling and grammar get him a tool and ask him to use it. It depends on the field but sometimes the easiest thing to do is just let Grammarly deal. If you get something with mistakes, send it back and tell him to use Grammarly.
posted by warriorqueen at 6:59 AM on August 13 [7 favorites]
TL;DR: Prevent your own burnout. Immediately cease the current workflow even if balls drop. Recognize that you two are extremely misaligned due to very different sets of strengths/weaknesses, and that you yourself are the only one who can advocate for yourself extricating out of that. You need to enlist others to step in and that's your only job right now (outside of your normal non-this-guy duties)
I upvoted nearly every comment because you are already getting some great advice! I co-sign particularly the nuggets about ensuring you are not absorbing all the dysfunction yourself. You will burn out, full stop, and then you'll be in a way worse pickle. And at the end of the day, your company will continue functioning even if you burn out, they will just find a way to adjust workflows if that happens.... you have to figure out a way to make that shift in the workflow before you burn out. Some balls will drop either way, but they're probably plastic balls anyway, not glass ones. Please don't burn yourself out, even the glass balls are not worth the ramifications!
I've been him in my younger years: the type of managing you are doing has the opposite of the intended effect currently. Even if they're rare, the disdainful nonverbals mean he is almost certainly actively tuning you out at this point. He's young and green, he's probably completely out of his depth with how to move forward constructively, so the only direction he has to go is ignore/resent/make you wrong. Whatever his "work blockages" are re: productivity, timeliness, accuracy, you are not getting through to him on them, so he's just feeling persecuted. You doubling or tripling down on the things that he's not ever shown an inclination of doing is further is banging both of your heads against the same wall ad infinitum. The solution is not *more* micromanaging, or *better* micromanaging, it's *no more* micromanaging. See all comments above on strategies for this.
One other perspective - you did mention you are not great at managing underperformers, and this is not morally bad thing. But you do have to recognize that despite expending a great deal of energy in good faith, you are just not the right fit for the type of dotted-line interactions that are happening with this guy. The way this has all gone really badly is not only on him, as tempting as it may sound, it's also just really poor alignment based on circumstances - and, the fact that your strength is not in managing employee like him. I don't mean this in a horrible blame-y way towards you, but just so you can recognize you are indeed out of your own depth here based on your own strengths/weaknesses profile.
The same way he needs support in managing his shortcomings, you need more help than you've been asking for/given to manage yours. You just have to redirect all your energy towards getting yourself out of this current structure, which you can only do if you stop all the other management systems you have in place for him. Your goal has to be disentangle yourself above all else. See above comments for these specific strategies.
I've also been in your shoes, so I deeply empathize and am glad you're getting so much additional great input above. Take care of yourself above all else!
posted by seemoorglass at 6:59 AM on August 13 [4 favorites]
I upvoted nearly every comment because you are already getting some great advice! I co-sign particularly the nuggets about ensuring you are not absorbing all the dysfunction yourself. You will burn out, full stop, and then you'll be in a way worse pickle. And at the end of the day, your company will continue functioning even if you burn out, they will just find a way to adjust workflows if that happens.... you have to figure out a way to make that shift in the workflow before you burn out. Some balls will drop either way, but they're probably plastic balls anyway, not glass ones. Please don't burn yourself out, even the glass balls are not worth the ramifications!
I've been him in my younger years: the type of managing you are doing has the opposite of the intended effect currently. Even if they're rare, the disdainful nonverbals mean he is almost certainly actively tuning you out at this point. He's young and green, he's probably completely out of his depth with how to move forward constructively, so the only direction he has to go is ignore/resent/make you wrong. Whatever his "work blockages" are re: productivity, timeliness, accuracy, you are not getting through to him on them, so he's just feeling persecuted. You doubling or tripling down on the things that he's not ever shown an inclination of doing is further is banging both of your heads against the same wall ad infinitum. The solution is not *more* micromanaging, or *better* micromanaging, it's *no more* micromanaging. See all comments above on strategies for this.
One other perspective - you did mention you are not great at managing underperformers, and this is not morally bad thing. But you do have to recognize that despite expending a great deal of energy in good faith, you are just not the right fit for the type of dotted-line interactions that are happening with this guy. The way this has all gone really badly is not only on him, as tempting as it may sound, it's also just really poor alignment based on circumstances - and, the fact that your strength is not in managing employee like him. I don't mean this in a horrible blame-y way towards you, but just so you can recognize you are indeed out of your own depth here based on your own strengths/weaknesses profile.
The same way he needs support in managing his shortcomings, you need more help than you've been asking for/given to manage yours. You just have to redirect all your energy towards getting yourself out of this current structure, which you can only do if you stop all the other management systems you have in place for him. Your goal has to be disentangle yourself above all else. See above comments for these specific strategies.
I've also been in your shoes, so I deeply empathize and am glad you're getting so much additional great input above. Take care of yourself above all else!
posted by seemoorglass at 6:59 AM on August 13 [4 favorites]
It's not that you walked into a trap; it's that that's how managing is.
posted by Melismata at 7:02 AM on August 13
posted by Melismata at 7:02 AM on August 13
Here are some ideas off the top of my head:
I oversee and manage a portion of his work.
Can you approach his manager and move him off the project/task that you oversee, citing something like, “I think he’d be happier doing something else, in the meantime, employee X is interested in doing this work.”
He doesn't seem to understand instructions and hands in incomplete/off-the-mark documents all the time, which I then have to spend time formulating written feedback for.
Can you do a walkthrough with him – he shares his screen, he makes the corrections as you note them? Or if in person, sit next to him and go through it? Can you let his manager know all the things that you’ve had to do with him? Does she have a good idea of how poor his work is?
constantly interrupts me while I'm working to ask me questions which an actual search engine would be better suited to answer.
How about responding, “sorry I’m not able to answer that right now. Please look it up on Google.” Repeat ad nauseum.
he also often cuts in or tries to complete my sentence (inaccurately, in case you wonder) when I take SMALL pauses in my speech during meetings with clients.
Try saying, “Thank you Chaz. As I was saying…” And then continue as if he hadn’t interrupted. If your clients are any good, they’ll be able to see through him and see that you’re handling someone well who thinks highly of himself. Can you have a conversation with him after the meeting about this?
Does your organization do performance reviews at all? Can you bring all this up at the review – i.e. submit your documentation to his manager?
They’re also aligned with the reset and are fine with me doing extra work during this period. I assume because I’ve never let a ball drop in my entire life here. They know I’ll deal with it.
Maybe it would help to reset in your mind, that you are not dropping a ball by NOT micromanaging him. In fact, it’s your manager and his manager that are dropping the ball. If they know you’ll deal with it, then you have to push back somehow. There are some good ideas here already.
How is your relationship to your manager? Are you able to say, “I’m really struggling here, and part of the frustration is that I have responsibility for his work in this area, but no real power [borrowing from seanmpuckett’s comment]. I really can’t have him working on these tasks because it slows down productivity by %X.” If you’re such a star performer, then they should work to keep you, and if they don’t, they shouldn’t be all surprised Pikachu face when you announce you’ve got another job.
On preview, per your edit: Is it possible to move him off your part of the project entirely? If you do give him verbal feedback, make sure there’s a written record of it. Either he takes notes on what you say, and he sends it to you to check for accuracy, or you send him the written feedback and in either case, cc his manager.
posted by foxjacket at 7:06 AM on August 13 [1 favorite]
I oversee and manage a portion of his work.
Can you approach his manager and move him off the project/task that you oversee, citing something like, “I think he’d be happier doing something else, in the meantime, employee X is interested in doing this work.”
He doesn't seem to understand instructions and hands in incomplete/off-the-mark documents all the time, which I then have to spend time formulating written feedback for.
Can you do a walkthrough with him – he shares his screen, he makes the corrections as you note them? Or if in person, sit next to him and go through it? Can you let his manager know all the things that you’ve had to do with him? Does she have a good idea of how poor his work is?
constantly interrupts me while I'm working to ask me questions which an actual search engine would be better suited to answer.
How about responding, “sorry I’m not able to answer that right now. Please look it up on Google.” Repeat ad nauseum.
he also often cuts in or tries to complete my sentence (inaccurately, in case you wonder) when I take SMALL pauses in my speech during meetings with clients.
Try saying, “Thank you Chaz. As I was saying…” And then continue as if he hadn’t interrupted. If your clients are any good, they’ll be able to see through him and see that you’re handling someone well who thinks highly of himself. Can you have a conversation with him after the meeting about this?
Does your organization do performance reviews at all? Can you bring all this up at the review – i.e. submit your documentation to his manager?
They’re also aligned with the reset and are fine with me doing extra work during this period. I assume because I’ve never let a ball drop in my entire life here. They know I’ll deal with it.
Maybe it would help to reset in your mind, that you are not dropping a ball by NOT micromanaging him. In fact, it’s your manager and his manager that are dropping the ball. If they know you’ll deal with it, then you have to push back somehow. There are some good ideas here already.
How is your relationship to your manager? Are you able to say, “I’m really struggling here, and part of the frustration is that I have responsibility for his work in this area, but no real power [borrowing from seanmpuckett’s comment]. I really can’t have him working on these tasks because it slows down productivity by %X.” If you’re such a star performer, then they should work to keep you, and if they don’t, they shouldn’t be all surprised Pikachu face when you announce you’ve got another job.
On preview, per your edit: Is it possible to move him off your part of the project entirely? If you do give him verbal feedback, make sure there’s a written record of it. Either he takes notes on what you say, and he sends it to you to check for accuracy, or you send him the written feedback and in either case, cc his manager.
posted by foxjacket at 7:06 AM on August 13 [1 favorite]
Weekly 30 minute one-on-one meetings with them where you discuss:
10 minutes for them - whatever they want
10 minutes for you - whatever you want (work related)
10 minutes for future
Semi-private setting, take notes and keep them.
Determine what requires follow-up and whether to give feedback.
Do this for a few weeks. If the situation keeps going downhill you now have documentation to present to their manager.
I learned all this in one of the Manager Tools conferences I attended and I would recommend it. If your org can't or doesn't want to pay for you to attend, they have freely available podcasts that covers a lot of management topics.
posted by eatcake at 7:06 AM on August 13
10 minutes for them - whatever they want
10 minutes for you - whatever you want (work related)
10 minutes for future
Semi-private setting, take notes and keep them.
Determine what requires follow-up and whether to give feedback.
Do this for a few weeks. If the situation keeps going downhill you now have documentation to present to their manager.
I learned all this in one of the Manager Tools conferences I attended and I would recommend it. If your org can't or doesn't want to pay for you to attend, they have freely available podcasts that covers a lot of management topics.
posted by eatcake at 7:06 AM on August 13
> It's not that you walked into a trap; it's that that's how managing is.
Well the trap is the part where OP has no authority corresponding to their responsibility. The employee OP is managing does not report to OP. And while that's a common thing for employers to do, it IS also a sneaky, sneaky trap.
OP, you have to start letting some balls drop in order to get out of this trap. Cease managing the problem employee.
posted by MiraK at 7:06 AM on August 13 [14 favorites]
Well the trap is the part where OP has no authority corresponding to their responsibility. The employee OP is managing does not report to OP. And while that's a common thing for employers to do, it IS also a sneaky, sneaky trap.
OP, you have to start letting some balls drop in order to get out of this trap. Cease managing the problem employee.
posted by MiraK at 7:06 AM on August 13 [14 favorites]
OP, just saw your newest comment. Stop the whole feedback cycle entirely. Just do his work (temporarily - this phase is not going to last forever!) and cut him out of the equation. It's got to be less overall work for you to just do it on his behalf, no?
SIMULTANEOUSLY and ASAP - like, as soon as you are regulated enough to do so - you can't drag your feet on this - you have to get your manager, his manager, and maybe HR / senior person in the same room and calmly lay out the big picture.
It's an organizational bottom line issue that you and he are so misaligned. Your feedback is not improving his performance and you (and he) are being taken away from other billable work because the feedback you are giving is not addressing his productivity. You can/should own up too that you are not providing him the type of mentorship he is able to integrate, so that initial organizational goal of "mentoring him" has not successfully happened.. From an organizational perspective, these are two problems that are best solved if you both (temporarily) restructure the reporting so that you just take his load back on to your plate.
This is your new drumbeat. You will have another meeting with that group in a few weeks after he is resettled into another reporting group to figure out how to offload his work onto a different junior employee.
PS - gentle reminder not to threadsit; I can empathize with this but you are trying so very hard to micromanage even the way this whole post is going, and it's the same type of energy that is going to burn you out! Just sit with the feedback, let yourself cry more, take a mental health day if you need to, and then commit to the above.
Edit upon preview: In my PS, my tone is meant to be supportive and gentle and encouraging YOU to preserve your own energy and sanity, just want to clarify I'm not trying to call you out in any way - just want you to notice how very hard you are working, even in this post, and you need to work LESS not more.
posted by seemoorglass at 7:11 AM on August 13 [15 favorites]
SIMULTANEOUSLY and ASAP - like, as soon as you are regulated enough to do so - you can't drag your feet on this - you have to get your manager, his manager, and maybe HR / senior person in the same room and calmly lay out the big picture.
It's an organizational bottom line issue that you and he are so misaligned. Your feedback is not improving his performance and you (and he) are being taken away from other billable work because the feedback you are giving is not addressing his productivity. You can/should own up too that you are not providing him the type of mentorship he is able to integrate, so that initial organizational goal of "mentoring him" has not successfully happened.. From an organizational perspective, these are two problems that are best solved if you both (temporarily) restructure the reporting so that you just take his load back on to your plate.
This is your new drumbeat. You will have another meeting with that group in a few weeks after he is resettled into another reporting group to figure out how to offload his work onto a different junior employee.
PS - gentle reminder not to threadsit; I can empathize with this but you are trying so very hard to micromanage even the way this whole post is going, and it's the same type of energy that is going to burn you out! Just sit with the feedback, let yourself cry more, take a mental health day if you need to, and then commit to the above.
Edit upon preview: In my PS, my tone is meant to be supportive and gentle and encouraging YOU to preserve your own energy and sanity, just want to clarify I'm not trying to call you out in any way - just want you to notice how very hard you are working, even in this post, and you need to work LESS not more.
posted by seemoorglass at 7:11 AM on August 13 [15 favorites]
Honestly it doesn't sound like you're really a personnel mgr here - it's more like your the project manager or the project lead based on your description of your tasks, the fact that it's just the 2 of you on the project and the lack of authority you have over him.
You mentioned keeping track of deliverables and deadlines. Are you sharing the status of those with the mgrs? I would be using those status reports to flag how his inability to get things done is putting the project at work, and steer towards some of the conversations around the fact that you have more work in addition to mentoring him. You don't have to necessarily singling him out, just documenting what's been late, and how you're extra reviews of his work are impacting your own deliverables. You can infer a lot w/out calling him out. For me it'd be a single doc that tracked everything so that down the road the pattern was easy to see. And I'd be sending weekly project status reports regardless of whether your mgrs seemed interested or not.
Taking screenshots of your feedback and sending around to vent sounds like he's either frustrated or doesn't respect you, etc. Your comments in your initial post suggest the latter to me but who knows really, maybe they are overwhelmed. Either way he isn't going to be open to your feedback. So someone else has to give it to him, either his mgrs or maybe someone else who could be a peer coach. And you can share feedback with that person and he can vent away.
What is your performance review process at work? Do you have goals for the year that you review as part of that process. If so there should be clear expectations of his work leading up to that so that it can be addressed that he did/didn't make it.
Frankly it seems like you got a (not uncommon) raw deal here - you're leading a 2 person project with a reluctant jr. partner without much support from either of your mgrs.. And the reward for great work at work is usually more and more work. I have been in what sounds like a similar boat a couple times and it's incredible frustrating. One of them eventually got pushed out (bad perf review) but it took about a year and mgr shake up and a personality conflict between them and the new mgr. The old one would have continued to say 'has potential' b/c they looked at the employee and saw a younger version of themselves. By the time they left I had pretty much burnt myself out trying to get them up to the bar as well keep preserve my own reputation and keep the client happy.
posted by snowymorninblues at 7:54 AM on August 13
You mentioned keeping track of deliverables and deadlines. Are you sharing the status of those with the mgrs? I would be using those status reports to flag how his inability to get things done is putting the project at work, and steer towards some of the conversations around the fact that you have more work in addition to mentoring him. You don't have to necessarily singling him out, just documenting what's been late, and how you're extra reviews of his work are impacting your own deliverables. You can infer a lot w/out calling him out. For me it'd be a single doc that tracked everything so that down the road the pattern was easy to see. And I'd be sending weekly project status reports regardless of whether your mgrs seemed interested or not.
Taking screenshots of your feedback and sending around to vent sounds like he's either frustrated or doesn't respect you, etc. Your comments in your initial post suggest the latter to me but who knows really, maybe they are overwhelmed. Either way he isn't going to be open to your feedback. So someone else has to give it to him, either his mgrs or maybe someone else who could be a peer coach. And you can share feedback with that person and he can vent away.
What is your performance review process at work? Do you have goals for the year that you review as part of that process. If so there should be clear expectations of his work leading up to that so that it can be addressed that he did/didn't make it.
Frankly it seems like you got a (not uncommon) raw deal here - you're leading a 2 person project with a reluctant jr. partner without much support from either of your mgrs.. And the reward for great work at work is usually more and more work. I have been in what sounds like a similar boat a couple times and it's incredible frustrating. One of them eventually got pushed out (bad perf review) but it took about a year and mgr shake up and a personality conflict between them and the new mgr. The old one would have continued to say 'has potential' b/c they looked at the employee and saw a younger version of themselves. By the time they left I had pretty much burnt myself out trying to get them up to the bar as well keep preserve my own reputation and keep the client happy.
posted by snowymorninblues at 7:54 AM on August 13
Do you and the person's supervisor report to the same person? I'd talk to the supervisor's manager about the issue. If they aren't willing to performance manage this person and it's having an impact on other people you need to raise that so a higher level of leadership.
posted by Kurichina at 8:07 AM on August 13
posted by Kurichina at 8:07 AM on August 13
In a somewhat similar situation where I eventually quit, I asked the guy what the problem had been, why he never did any of the work I asked him to do; he said "it was only you wanted it done" and shrugged. If nothing else, try and get the person he actually considers to be his boss to sit down in a meeting with you and he where you lay out the same stuff you have, and she 💯 backs you up and says that's his job. Ideally get whatever man this guy thinks is his actual boss if you can, she added bitterly.
posted by Iteki at 8:36 AM on August 13 [9 favorites]
posted by Iteki at 8:36 AM on August 13 [9 favorites]
I might sound like a broken record, but you need to get your entire team to use some kind of project management software. For this guy, it will make all of his delays and missed deadlines visible to everyone on the team, as well as to his other manager (whom you should invite to all of his projects in a view-only capacity).
You also won't have to keep asking for updates if the team culture is to update daily in the project space. When he misses those updates, that will also be visible to the team (and his other manager).
For some employees, this is all the motivation they need to fix their poor performance. It's one thing to fail in front of a leader who isn't really even your boss. It's entirely another to fail in front of your colleagues.
posted by yellowcandy at 8:44 AM on August 13 [2 favorites]
You also won't have to keep asking for updates if the team culture is to update daily in the project space. When he misses those updates, that will also be visible to the team (and his other manager).
For some employees, this is all the motivation they need to fix their poor performance. It's one thing to fail in front of a leader who isn't really even your boss. It's entirely another to fail in front of your colleagues.
posted by yellowcandy at 8:44 AM on August 13 [2 favorites]
So, I'm three months into this promotion and I am not having fun. The person this question is about does not report into me, but I oversee and manage a portion of his work.
As you are discovering the step from individual contributor to management is enormous. Right now you are in over your head as a manager. The good news is that you know that, hence this question. The bad news is that your manager may be as frustrated with you as you are with this employee.
I’ve included some thoughts below, but the primary thing I think you should be doing is talking to your manager about how you’re going to help this employee succeed.
Some thoughts:
1) You’re part of management now. The company’s problems are your problems and while the decision you would make is to let him go, the company has decided to keep him. Your ability/inability to help this person succeed will be part of your yearly review.
2) Generally, no employee is going to do great for the first six months. A recent graduate will take even longer to come up to speed. The business world is an incredibly busy and confusing place; People need training wheels.
3) Micromanaging is not a good coaching method. You need to set some simple baseline expectations and sit with him and his manager to go over them. Nothing exotic. The text he produces has to be free of spelling and grammatical errors. Missing deadlines is OK, but you need 24 hours notice if it’s going to happen. That is enough for a beginning.
4) Both of those can be very hard tasks if you’re new and overwhelmed, but they are both measurable and achievable. Giving a new employee something positive that they can accomplish is the first part of building them up into a responsible worker. Because they are measurable you can clearly document where his weak spots are. Perhaps arrange a weekly 20 minute session with him and his manager together to primarily talk about what has gone well, and to give a small amount of gentle feedback on how he could do better.
5) Everyone I know who has left management has done so because employees are a pain in the ass. Dealing with them appears to be the hardest and most annoying part of the job (it certainly was for me). You’re not alone.
6) Uneasy sits the butt the bears the boss. If nothing else you may start to understand why managers get paid the big bucks.
But primarily, you’re in over your head and you should seek guidance from people with experience about how to help this person. It’s your job now.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 8:45 AM on August 13 [1 favorite]
As you are discovering the step from individual contributor to management is enormous. Right now you are in over your head as a manager. The good news is that you know that, hence this question. The bad news is that your manager may be as frustrated with you as you are with this employee.
I’ve included some thoughts below, but the primary thing I think you should be doing is talking to your manager about how you’re going to help this employee succeed.
Some thoughts:
1) You’re part of management now. The company’s problems are your problems and while the decision you would make is to let him go, the company has decided to keep him. Your ability/inability to help this person succeed will be part of your yearly review.
2) Generally, no employee is going to do great for the first six months. A recent graduate will take even longer to come up to speed. The business world is an incredibly busy and confusing place; People need training wheels.
3) Micromanaging is not a good coaching method. You need to set some simple baseline expectations and sit with him and his manager to go over them. Nothing exotic. The text he produces has to be free of spelling and grammatical errors. Missing deadlines is OK, but you need 24 hours notice if it’s going to happen. That is enough for a beginning.
4) Both of those can be very hard tasks if you’re new and overwhelmed, but they are both measurable and achievable. Giving a new employee something positive that they can accomplish is the first part of building them up into a responsible worker. Because they are measurable you can clearly document where his weak spots are. Perhaps arrange a weekly 20 minute session with him and his manager together to primarily talk about what has gone well, and to give a small amount of gentle feedback on how he could do better.
5) Everyone I know who has left management has done so because employees are a pain in the ass. Dealing with them appears to be the hardest and most annoying part of the job (it certainly was for me). You’re not alone.
6) Uneasy sits the butt the bears the boss. If nothing else you may start to understand why managers get paid the big bucks.
But primarily, you’re in over your head and you should seek guidance from people with experience about how to help this person. It’s your job now.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 8:45 AM on August 13 [1 favorite]
I’m going to go against the grain and say part of the problem here is that you’re NOT management but have the impression that you are.
Your role sounds more like project management, where you have accountability for a project but not direct supervision of the contributors to the project. It’s a different skill set and approach than people management, especially because some of the managers’ toolkit is not available to you.
Additionally, it sounds like your org thinks you do a good job and wanted to reward you with a promotion, but ultimately this work is not the org’s priority. That’s means that doing well here involves being able to do this work without it being a hassle for the actual people leaders involved. It’s kind of unfair, but it is what it is.
One perspective that may be helpful is understanding what else this person is doing and how much of his time should be devoted to your project. If you’re expecting 50% of his time and the actual availability is 20%, that’s going to create conflict.
There are good suggestions here as well on managing the relationship with him and some of his more annoying behaviors. And it may be worth discussing whether he’s a fit for the project at all.
I’d also start looking into resources for managing teams for PMs as they will be more aligned with what you can and cannot do.
posted by jeoc at 9:06 AM on August 13 [10 favorites]
Your role sounds more like project management, where you have accountability for a project but not direct supervision of the contributors to the project. It’s a different skill set and approach than people management, especially because some of the managers’ toolkit is not available to you.
Additionally, it sounds like your org thinks you do a good job and wanted to reward you with a promotion, but ultimately this work is not the org’s priority. That’s means that doing well here involves being able to do this work without it being a hassle for the actual people leaders involved. It’s kind of unfair, but it is what it is.
One perspective that may be helpful is understanding what else this person is doing and how much of his time should be devoted to your project. If you’re expecting 50% of his time and the actual availability is 20%, that’s going to create conflict.
There are good suggestions here as well on managing the relationship with him and some of his more annoying behaviors. And it may be worth discussing whether he’s a fit for the project at all.
I’d also start looking into resources for managing teams for PMs as they will be more aligned with what you can and cannot do.
posted by jeoc at 9:06 AM on August 13 [10 favorites]
I have so much empathy for your situation! I also work in a project-based field, and sometimes have control over who I'm delegating to/training/etc. and sometimes don't. I'm fortunate that the majority of people have been at least receptive to feedback, but there was one person similar to the one you're working with who was constantly an issue and turned in poor product, took neutral constructive feedback incredibly personally, and failed to show improvement. This person ended up leaving -- and I was not the only one to breathe a sigh of relief because there were no plans to fire, just to "continue to mentor". Unfortunately like you, the bulk of the work fell to me to figure out, and the positive part of this was finding other work that I could delegate and train others on who were capable and willing. I don't know if your projects or teams are set up in a way to do that, but it was the only way to manage my workload. Where I still had to work with this person, I broke down assignments into bite-sized chunks and would dole them out one at a time. Sometimes as "feedback" I would just fix it and send back redline "for review", and other times I would do a heavy mark-up of what to fix and copy the person's direct supervisor. I still think it was a huge waste of my time and abilities, but the only thing I could do at a certain point was talk to my supervisor about how best to mentor someone who continued to make the same basic mistakes without micromanaging and tbh I didn't get much help on this except "thanks for continuing to work through it."
posted by DoubleLune at 9:43 AM on August 13
posted by DoubleLune at 9:43 AM on August 13
It also sounds to me like his manager also isn't doing her job because she is not managing HIS poor work but offloading that responsibility to you - you have two people not performing that you are doing the work for.
Stop doing their work and let. them. fail. and document it so people know that any project delays are the guy's fault. Stop covering for him or he'll be your problem forever. Otherwise, your management is taking advantage of your pride in your work to overwork you and eventually burn you out. They don't pay you enough to do three people's work.
posted by urbanlenny at 9:50 AM on August 13 [8 favorites]
Stop doing their work and let. them. fail. and document it so people know that any project delays are the guy's fault. Stop covering for him or he'll be your problem forever. Otherwise, your management is taking advantage of your pride in your work to overwork you and eventually burn you out. They don't pay you enough to do three people's work.
posted by urbanlenny at 9:50 AM on August 13 [8 favorites]
OP...
I was recently promoted into a team lead/manager role.
joec...
I’m going to go against the grain and say part of the problem here is that you’re NOT management but have the impression that you are.
I had assumed OP had some direct reports as well as this employee to worry about, but it's not clear to me if that's the case. OP, team lead is very different from manager and a lot of advice here (including mine) does not apply if you're not officially a manager.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 10:09 AM on August 13 [5 favorites]
I was recently promoted into a team lead/manager role.
joec...
I’m going to go against the grain and say part of the problem here is that you’re NOT management but have the impression that you are.
I had assumed OP had some direct reports as well as this employee to worry about, but it's not clear to me if that's the case. OP, team lead is very different from manager and a lot of advice here (including mine) does not apply if you're not officially a manager.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 10:09 AM on August 13 [5 favorites]
Agreed -- team lead is a sheep dog, manager is the shepherd. The team lead may notice and report on poor performance, but it's the manager who must apply discipline. Make sure you know what pants you're wearing!
posted by seanmpuckett at 10:45 AM on August 13 [2 favorites]
posted by seanmpuckett at 10:45 AM on August 13 [2 favorites]
Stop assigning him any work at all. It will be easier than redoing/managing.
posted by knobknosher at 1:59 PM on August 13 [2 favorites]
posted by knobknosher at 1:59 PM on August 13 [2 favorites]
And tell him not to speak on a client call unless spoken to.
This is not typical for management. It is the sign of an unhealthy org and likely significant bias issues (prioritizing male “potential” over working conditions for the women who're actually getting the work done)
posted by knobknosher at 2:03 PM on August 13 [1 favorite]
This is not typical for management. It is the sign of an unhealthy org and likely significant bias issues (prioritizing male “potential” over working conditions for the women who're actually getting the work done)
posted by knobknosher at 2:03 PM on August 13 [1 favorite]
Has the OP identified as female?
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 2:14 PM on August 13
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 2:14 PM on August 13
So this manager he does report to is responsible for providing you a service right? (the labor). And you're not satisfied with the service, and it isn't getting better despite your feedback. I would do two or three things simultaneously.
1) Fire him from your team. I know you can't FIRE him fire him, but he can't work for YOU any more. Send him back where he came from. You want someone competent (even say it that way); this guy's unsatisfactory.
2) Complain to his manager's manager about the poor management of this employee and failure to see any improvement. That's on her, not him.
3) Failing both of those, demand to BE his real manager. With control over his performance evaluations.
4) Failing even that, at least demand that your comments and ratings be put into his performance evaluations.
Basically I would throw a big enough fit over this guy at this point, loudly and non-stop, that they would have to figure something else out even if they chalk it up to "personality conflict". (Caution: I can only do that because it's extremely rare and people have learned I don't cry wolf. Ever. Since you're new, you need to be a bit more careful that they don't think the problem is you. You need the documented facts to point to)
posted by ctmf at 6:19 PM on August 13
1) Fire him from your team. I know you can't FIRE him fire him, but he can't work for YOU any more. Send him back where he came from. You want someone competent (even say it that way); this guy's unsatisfactory.
2) Complain to his manager's manager about the poor management of this employee and failure to see any improvement. That's on her, not him.
3) Failing both of those, demand to BE his real manager. With control over his performance evaluations.
4) Failing even that, at least demand that your comments and ratings be put into his performance evaluations.
Basically I would throw a big enough fit over this guy at this point, loudly and non-stop, that they would have to figure something else out even if they chalk it up to "personality conflict". (Caution: I can only do that because it's extremely rare and people have learned I don't cry wolf. Ever. Since you're new, you need to be a bit more careful that they don't think the problem is you. You need the documented facts to point to)
posted by ctmf at 6:19 PM on August 13
5) Extreme measure - The "corner office" treatment. Give him absolutely nothing to do, in fact prohibit him from touching any of your stuff. Let him sit as his desk and play solitaire all day and just eat the cost. Straight up admit it if asked - yeah that guy's useless, I tried to send him back but you made me keep him. It destroys people's self-worth and makes them want to quit.
posted by ctmf at 6:33 PM on August 13 [2 favorites]
posted by ctmf at 6:33 PM on August 13 [2 favorites]
Yes, I also just want to flag the misogyny in action here! This means that in addition to the good advice above you can also recognise that some of his behaviour and the ways it’s tolerated/accommodated are purely sexist, and thus not as such your legitimate problem to solve or a game you have to continue playing.
posted by lokta at 5:13 AM on August 14 [2 favorites]
posted by lokta at 5:13 AM on August 14 [2 favorites]
In case it matters, I'm a high performer who has been given two significant raises in 6 months because I'm exceeding expectations.
that does matter, you're doing great!
I just need a solid plan to save my sanity
ctmf's idea is a simple solution & goes along with recommendations in Managing Oneself:
if you want to do a bit more than ctmf suggests, you could off-load just one task. only one. mentoring people is hard! if there's a problem of questions which an actual search engine would be better suited to answer, teach the man how to use a search engine & you'll be doing everyone a favor [g]
with sincere apologies to anyone i've ever interrupted, i will say that speaking in a client meeting may have more to do with the client than you, i.e. they may be thinking that it is important to continue the conversation with the client when they see a pause; they may be trying to help. when you are truly listening, as vienna recommends & i strongly support, ask about the client meetings. and make it clear that you want to be the only one talking, if that is so. good luck!
posted by HearHere at 8:54 AM on August 14
that does matter, you're doing great!
I just need a solid plan to save my sanity
ctmf's idea is a simple solution & goes along with recommendations in Managing Oneself:
One should waste as little effort as possible on improving areas of low competence. It takes far more energy and work to improve from incompetence to mediocrity than it takes to improve from first-rate performance to excellence. [g]I was given the responsibility to mentor him to get up to speed on this project specifically
if you want to do a bit more than ctmf suggests, you could off-load just one task. only one. mentoring people is hard! if there's a problem of questions which an actual search engine would be better suited to answer, teach the man how to use a search engine & you'll be doing everyone a favor [g]
with sincere apologies to anyone i've ever interrupted, i will say that speaking in a client meeting may have more to do with the client than you, i.e. they may be thinking that it is important to continue the conversation with the client when they see a pause; they may be trying to help. when you are truly listening, as vienna recommends & i strongly support, ask about the client meetings. and make it clear that you want to be the only one talking, if that is so. good luck!
posted by HearHere at 8:54 AM on August 14
So a picture is emerging of a younger woman with no management authority at all charged with getting an obnoxiously entitled older man to behave responsibly.
If that's the case I don't think you want any part of this. There's a bare chance that you might get him straightened out but it would take an enormous amount of energy and it's not your job.
Silently sideline him, actively sideline him, quit, do whatever you need to in order to disengage. Discretion is the better part of valor, and this is not a battle worth choosing.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 12:29 PM on August 15
If that's the case I don't think you want any part of this. There's a bare chance that you might get him straightened out but it would take an enormous amount of energy and it's not your job.
Silently sideline him, actively sideline him, quit, do whatever you need to in order to disengage. Discretion is the better part of valor, and this is not a battle worth choosing.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 12:29 PM on August 15
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posted by antihistameme at 2:48 AM on August 13 [3 favorites]