Taking the train in Canada - suggestions?
August 7, 2024 2:06 PM Subscribe
We'll be traveling between Toronto, Ottawa, Montreal and New York City - have you done this recently? Any advice you can give, greatly appreciated.
And is rail between Montreal and New York - Penn Station all Amtrak, or some Via-Amtrak combo?
And is rail between Montreal and New York - Penn Station all Amtrak, or some Via-Amtrak combo?
I would take this with a grain of salt since it is an urban transit nerd rant from a guy who seems to have had particularly bad luck with the Maple Leaf train, but it sounds like the cross-border ticketing is at best convoluted and there are, like with most Amtrak-involving long distance routes in the US, some major reliability issues.
posted by A Blue Moon at 2:53 PM on August 7
posted by A Blue Moon at 2:53 PM on August 7
dunno about the cross border stuff but for the via rail stuff in Canada, it's not that much more expensive to book business class and it is nicer to have extra room + a meal and drinks. Book early, the prices go up.
posted by stray at 2:55 PM on August 7 [3 favorites]
posted by stray at 2:55 PM on August 7 [3 favorites]
Seconding the advice to book business class on Via Rail for the Canadian parts of your travel. It's a significantly better experience than economy class.
posted by burntflowers at 3:46 PM on August 7 [1 favorite]
posted by burntflowers at 3:46 PM on August 7 [1 favorite]
Note that in Canada passenger service is second class to freight, so you may (will) be delayed, especially on the Toronto-Ottawa-Montreal corridor. Take VIA Rail arrival times as optimistic projections.
posted by seanmpuckett at 4:10 PM on August 7 [1 favorite]
posted by seanmpuckett at 4:10 PM on August 7 [1 favorite]
In the before times I took the via from qc to montreal...and was allowed to switch to a single that was booked from mtl to Ottawa because the guy next to me was hogging both outlets.
posted by brujita at 4:23 PM on August 7
posted by brujita at 4:23 PM on August 7
The trains may be late but I’ve been on Ottawa-Toronto and Montreal-Toronto a lot and I’d say your odds are 50-50. If you’re booking well in advance you’ll save money and on Tuesdays there are random discounts (meaning when you book on a Tuesday) so it’s worth checking the site for that.
The food on Via Rail economy is really not good,* as well as limited so bring your own. If you are departing from Montreal you are in total luck because they have some truly awesome sandwiches at Première Moisson. Their hours are great.
Union Station in Toronto has a more traditional array of stuff - my advice is, if you have time, go to the GO concourse foodie aisle (retail level). Mean Bao is good and there’s an Asian market with some good trays of things as well as a ton of fast food options. If you are meat eaters and arrive early, Wurst
Ottawa, not so much so if you are departing from there - vending machines only I think. So try to bring something with you. Bring water bottles. It’s rare but if you have a big delay, they will run out. If they announce a delay and you didn’t bring water, buy some right away.
Follow the baggage rules - they didn’t used to care but things have gotten much stricter.
Wifi is generally decent though not speedy and has occasional dead areas.
* I haven’t been in business class for a while so that may provide decent food.
posted by warriorqueen at 5:26 PM on August 7 [2 favorites]
The food on Via Rail economy is really not good,* as well as limited so bring your own. If you are departing from Montreal you are in total luck because they have some truly awesome sandwiches at Première Moisson. Their hours are great.
Union Station in Toronto has a more traditional array of stuff - my advice is, if you have time, go to the GO concourse foodie aisle (retail level). Mean Bao is good and there’s an Asian market with some good trays of things as well as a ton of fast food options. If you are meat eaters and arrive early, Wurst
Ottawa, not so much so if you are departing from there - vending machines only I think. So try to bring something with you. Bring water bottles. It’s rare but if you have a big delay, they will run out. If they announce a delay and you didn’t bring water, buy some right away.
Follow the baggage rules - they didn’t used to care but things have gotten much stricter.
Wifi is generally decent though not speedy and has occasional dead areas.
* I haven’t been in business class for a while so that may provide decent food.
posted by warriorqueen at 5:26 PM on August 7 [2 favorites]
Sit at a table in the dining car, maybe for a large proportion of the ride! I love the dining car - you get a little table and a nice big window, it's spacious and scenic and actually awesome for getting work done! My friend and I sat at a dining car table for an entire 8 hour train ride one day. We basically had a very pleasant offline work-from-train day (he sketched layouts for an entire design project and I got some writing done), and then when the workday was over, we disembarked the train in a new city to start a vacation. It was perfection and I still fantasize about doing it again just to avoid distractions!
(Side note, Obviously I'm not suggesting anyone be selfish and hog a table if the dining cart is full and others want to eat there! But we were lucky and the dining car never got more than half full during our trip, so we didn't have to give up the table for others.)
posted by nouvelle-personne at 6:47 PM on August 7 [1 favorite]
(Side note, Obviously I'm not suggesting anyone be selfish and hog a table if the dining cart is full and others want to eat there! But we were lucky and the dining car never got more than half full during our trip, so we didn't have to give up the table for others.)
posted by nouvelle-personne at 6:47 PM on August 7 [1 favorite]
Best answer: I used to ride VIA in the Niagara Falls to Toronto corridor once or twice a month. Trains were usually on time departing Toronto but almost always late departing Niagara Falls, especially if they were coming from NYC. Sunday nights were the worst. Bad weather does not help.
The Can/US border crossing at Niagara Falls takes an indeterminate amount of time (usually way too much) and those delays can have serious knock-on effects on your timing down the line. Once or twice I received a refund for trains that arrived 3+ hours after their scheduled time – it's worth knowing the policies so that you can make a claim if necessary, especially on the longer haul, more expensive tickets.
On the NYC-Toronto leg, you'll also need to cross the Welland Canal, which is a busy shipping route; I'd imagine that they would try to schedule ships around the train schedule but with the border crossing timelines, that might not happen. (Upside: it's cool to watch the flight locks in action. Downside: Those ships are not fast.) The area around Hamilton/Burlington is a busy industrial area and it is not uncommon to have your train held while freight trains take priority.
When I was making this trip on the regular, it was not uncommon to board an Amtrak train in Toronto for the trip to Niagara Falls; it would then continue to NYC. Amtrak trains were nicer than the old VIA trains but not as nice as the new VIA trains.
If you are spending any time in the Niagara area between NYC and Toronto, investigate taking GO transit (commuter rail), which is faster, leaves more frequently and is much more affordable (but less comfortable) than VIA.
That said, I wouldn't hesitate to ride the Toronto-Ottawa-Montreal corridor. That's a nice trip. Splash for business class if you can manage it; it's worth it.
posted by notquitejane at 5:38 AM on August 8
The Can/US border crossing at Niagara Falls takes an indeterminate amount of time (usually way too much) and those delays can have serious knock-on effects on your timing down the line. Once or twice I received a refund for trains that arrived 3+ hours after their scheduled time – it's worth knowing the policies so that you can make a claim if necessary, especially on the longer haul, more expensive tickets.
On the NYC-Toronto leg, you'll also need to cross the Welland Canal, which is a busy shipping route; I'd imagine that they would try to schedule ships around the train schedule but with the border crossing timelines, that might not happen. (Upside: it's cool to watch the flight locks in action. Downside: Those ships are not fast.) The area around Hamilton/Burlington is a busy industrial area and it is not uncommon to have your train held while freight trains take priority.
When I was making this trip on the regular, it was not uncommon to board an Amtrak train in Toronto for the trip to Niagara Falls; it would then continue to NYC. Amtrak trains were nicer than the old VIA trains but not as nice as the new VIA trains.
If you are spending any time in the Niagara area between NYC and Toronto, investigate taking GO transit (commuter rail), which is faster, leaves more frequently and is much more affordable (but less comfortable) than VIA.
That said, I wouldn't hesitate to ride the Toronto-Ottawa-Montreal corridor. That's a nice trip. Splash for business class if you can manage it; it's worth it.
posted by notquitejane at 5:38 AM on August 8
I don't think the delays are quite as bad in the Ottawa-Montreal-Toronto routes as 50/50 - I think they're more like 30% of the time you'll have delays, maybe a little less, though when you're facing a delay, it's a Delay - I've been delayed for three hours behind a derailment and for five hours behind a bush fire because the freight tracks mean that the Via trains don't have any other options to go around or reverse because they get stuck in a bunch of freight traffic. It seems to happen less when you're heading to Ottawa because there isn't as much freight traffic on those tracks once you get off the busy, busy track along Lake Ontario and head north.
I also find regular Via tickets totally fine. I've sat in business before but meh. They are running brand new trains on lots of their routes now and they're really comfortable and nice.
Ottawa, not so much so if you are departing from there - vending machines only I think. So try to bring something with you.
There is a coffee shop at the Ottawa Via Rail station now with sandwiches and baked goods. There are also water bottle fill stations.
posted by urbanlenny at 11:18 AM on August 8 [1 favorite]
I also find regular Via tickets totally fine. I've sat in business before but meh. They are running brand new trains on lots of their routes now and they're really comfortable and nice.
Ottawa, not so much so if you are departing from there - vending machines only I think. So try to bring something with you.
There is a coffee shop at the Ottawa Via Rail station now with sandwiches and baked goods. There are also water bottle fill stations.
posted by urbanlenny at 11:18 AM on August 8 [1 favorite]
Best answer: Cannot comment on the NY part, but I enjoy Via for the rest. Just travelled this morning Montréal to Ottawa!
I go between Montréal and Ottawa frequently. Its about 2 hours and if there is a delay it is usually fewer than 30 minutes. Most likely to be on time on the first train out, as it starts in Montréal rather than Québec City.
Not sure if you are staying in Ottawa, or going right to Toronto, but there are usually a couple connection options to transfer in Ottawa to continue to Toronto. They will often hold the Toronto train if the train coming from Montréal is late (I assume depending how many people are connecting, what the delay is, etc.).
There are a lot of food options in Montréal and Toronto if you start/end there. There is one cafe in Ottawa (Ministry of Coffee), not just vending machines, but you may not have time to visit depending on the timing of your connection if you're continuing to Toronto.
There is a new booking system now - you can select your seat (some people want a window, others to be forward-facing), see the layout of the cars, etc. They are running many more new trains now as well.
I don't think Business is worth the additional cost compared to Economy, but you can of course compare prices. I don't eat on the train as I still wear a mask but have taken the meal with me when I've been in Business and it is decent but not worth the cost to me. If you have any dietary restrictions or preferences they can be requested on booking but will often not be fulfilled if you are seated near the back as they start at the front or the train and often run out of all the options.
Its not that long of a trip so I'm not usually too worried about food.
In Economy cash is not accepted to pay for food onboard.
Best best is to visit https://www.viarail.ca as all the information is there and you can pretend to book to see the differences in price, availability, etc. Prices do go up the closer to the trip you are, and same day is now quite expensive!
Accessibility is improving but isn't perfect - if this is a consideration for your trip you can select what you need when you book but I usually confirm on arrival to the station as well. The new trains have accessible seating in Economy but the older trains will place you in Business (for the Economy fare). The accessible washroom on the older trains is quite tight - long and narrow - but on the newer ones is great.
I love the view when you go on and off island between Montréal and Ottawa, as well as the bridge view if you 'reverse' from Gare Centrale to change tracks.
Lake views are also lovely heading to and from Toronto, and depending on the season of travel the leaves will be gorgeous and green or a multitude of fall colours.
Have a wonderful trip!
posted by narcissus_and_ambrosia at 11:33 AM on August 8
I go between Montréal and Ottawa frequently. Its about 2 hours and if there is a delay it is usually fewer than 30 minutes. Most likely to be on time on the first train out, as it starts in Montréal rather than Québec City.
Not sure if you are staying in Ottawa, or going right to Toronto, but there are usually a couple connection options to transfer in Ottawa to continue to Toronto. They will often hold the Toronto train if the train coming from Montréal is late (I assume depending how many people are connecting, what the delay is, etc.).
There are a lot of food options in Montréal and Toronto if you start/end there. There is one cafe in Ottawa (Ministry of Coffee), not just vending machines, but you may not have time to visit depending on the timing of your connection if you're continuing to Toronto.
There is a new booking system now - you can select your seat (some people want a window, others to be forward-facing), see the layout of the cars, etc. They are running many more new trains now as well.
I don't think Business is worth the additional cost compared to Economy, but you can of course compare prices. I don't eat on the train as I still wear a mask but have taken the meal with me when I've been in Business and it is decent but not worth the cost to me. If you have any dietary restrictions or preferences they can be requested on booking but will often not be fulfilled if you are seated near the back as they start at the front or the train and often run out of all the options.
Its not that long of a trip so I'm not usually too worried about food.
In Economy cash is not accepted to pay for food onboard.
Best best is to visit https://www.viarail.ca as all the information is there and you can pretend to book to see the differences in price, availability, etc. Prices do go up the closer to the trip you are, and same day is now quite expensive!
Accessibility is improving but isn't perfect - if this is a consideration for your trip you can select what you need when you book but I usually confirm on arrival to the station as well. The new trains have accessible seating in Economy but the older trains will place you in Business (for the Economy fare). The accessible washroom on the older trains is quite tight - long and narrow - but on the newer ones is great.
I love the view when you go on and off island between Montréal and Ottawa, as well as the bridge view if you 'reverse' from Gare Centrale to change tracks.
Lake views are also lovely heading to and from Toronto, and depending on the season of travel the leaves will be gorgeous and green or a multitude of fall colours.
Have a wonderful trip!
posted by narcissus_and_ambrosia at 11:33 AM on August 8
Response by poster: Thanks for the info, everyone - very helpful! We're flying, instead, Montreal-NYC - too long and too iffy, by rail. And scheduled arrival time too late.
Yes, narcissus_and_ambrosia, staying one night in Ottawa.
Note that in Canada passenger service is second class to freight, so you may (will) be delayed... Take VIA Rail arrival times as optimistic projections.
We have the same problem with passenger rail in most of the US.
posted by Rash at 12:16 PM on August 8
Yes, narcissus_and_ambrosia, staying one night in Ottawa.
Note that in Canada passenger service is second class to freight, so you may (will) be delayed... Take VIA Rail arrival times as optimistic projections.
We have the same problem with passenger rail in most of the US.
posted by Rash at 12:16 PM on August 8
Response by poster: Our VIA trip between Toronto and Ottawa was delightful! On-time, spacious cars, everything so clean. Thanks, Canada!
posted by Rash at 7:13 PM on October 10 [3 favorites]
posted by Rash at 7:13 PM on October 10 [3 favorites]
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