Housemate read my journal, stole from us, and my friend was in on it
July 2, 2024 5:58 AM Subscribe
Bad behaviour by an old housemate (trying to torpedo my relationship, reading my journal and discussing it with my close friend, and now apparently stealing rent money) being weirdly tolerated by my close friend who still lives with her. More snowflakes inside.
I lived in a houseshare for a couple of years. Things were really nice for a long time - fun group activities, shared meals, jamming on the guitar together, evening meditations.
Then I became involved romantically with one of the housemates, V. She made a move on me and I fell for her, hard. Housemate R wasted no time in being outraged, telling me what a piece of shit I was for sleeping with a housemate, how it was going to destroy the houseshare which she relies upon (she has a long-standing leg injury making her much less mobile than most). V got wind of this and was upset, broke things off with me. To my shame I didn't push back.
When V subsequently and abruptly decided to move out to go travelling (we had since gotten back together), R was suddenly all smiles, saying 'now that V's moving out you should follow your heart! (and maybe you dating her will make her stay, haha).' V left shortly after, and I was totally heartbroken.
Many months later I got an apology for it all, with R saying that she wasn't malicious but hadn't acted with my happiness in mind, that she was bitter that I was dating someone younger than her and had lashed out because of her own difficulties with dating. I accepted the apology but never really forgave her.
Recently, another housemate, H, who is a close friend of mine, told me that R had read my diary. I suggested maybe it was a good thing for her to know how upset and angry I was at what happened. "No, it was pretty bad," he said, and referenced two particular things I had written about her which I guess she took to heart. I re-read the journal: those two things are separated by 150 pages. So I guess she just read the whole thing, and then discussed it at some length with H, who also asked if there was anything in there about him.
That journal has everything in it - therapy notes, medical issues, drug experiences, dates, sex, work, body image, family stuff, everything. The idea that she just read the thing cover to cover and then casually discussed its contents makes me feel sick with anger.
H then told me that R has been "giving herself a discount on her room". Somehow the monthly rent for the house in the contract we signed was less than the sum of the room rents we each paid. For convenience we paid into her account and she paid the landlord. Instead of telling us we were overpaying, she just pocketed the difference. Based on the numbers he's told me this might be thousands of pounds over the years. I view that as theft; the money was never hers to keep. Even more galling considering the enormous amount of work and support me and the other housemates offered her when we lived there for which we obviously weren't compensated.
Am I right to be as outraged as I am about this, and to basically decide to have no contact with this person who I once called a close friend?
And what to do about H, who's still friends with R, and apparently casually discussed the contents of my journal with her a year ago and thought to tell me only now? I want to stay friends with H, but I feel blindsided and hurt. I don't know how to broach how upset I am about the whole thing with him or whether I'm being unreasonable. Any advice on how to navigate this would be appreciated.
I lived in a houseshare for a couple of years. Things were really nice for a long time - fun group activities, shared meals, jamming on the guitar together, evening meditations.
Then I became involved romantically with one of the housemates, V. She made a move on me and I fell for her, hard. Housemate R wasted no time in being outraged, telling me what a piece of shit I was for sleeping with a housemate, how it was going to destroy the houseshare which she relies upon (she has a long-standing leg injury making her much less mobile than most). V got wind of this and was upset, broke things off with me. To my shame I didn't push back.
When V subsequently and abruptly decided to move out to go travelling (we had since gotten back together), R was suddenly all smiles, saying 'now that V's moving out you should follow your heart! (and maybe you dating her will make her stay, haha).' V left shortly after, and I was totally heartbroken.
Many months later I got an apology for it all, with R saying that she wasn't malicious but hadn't acted with my happiness in mind, that she was bitter that I was dating someone younger than her and had lashed out because of her own difficulties with dating. I accepted the apology but never really forgave her.
Recently, another housemate, H, who is a close friend of mine, told me that R had read my diary. I suggested maybe it was a good thing for her to know how upset and angry I was at what happened. "No, it was pretty bad," he said, and referenced two particular things I had written about her which I guess she took to heart. I re-read the journal: those two things are separated by 150 pages. So I guess she just read the whole thing, and then discussed it at some length with H, who also asked if there was anything in there about him.
That journal has everything in it - therapy notes, medical issues, drug experiences, dates, sex, work, body image, family stuff, everything. The idea that she just read the thing cover to cover and then casually discussed its contents makes me feel sick with anger.
H then told me that R has been "giving herself a discount on her room". Somehow the monthly rent for the house in the contract we signed was less than the sum of the room rents we each paid. For convenience we paid into her account and she paid the landlord. Instead of telling us we were overpaying, she just pocketed the difference. Based on the numbers he's told me this might be thousands of pounds over the years. I view that as theft; the money was never hers to keep. Even more galling considering the enormous amount of work and support me and the other housemates offered her when we lived there for which we obviously weren't compensated.
Am I right to be as outraged as I am about this, and to basically decide to have no contact with this person who I once called a close friend?
And what to do about H, who's still friends with R, and apparently casually discussed the contents of my journal with her a year ago and thought to tell me only now? I want to stay friends with H, but I feel blindsided and hurt. I don't know how to broach how upset I am about the whole thing with him or whether I'm being unreasonable. Any advice on how to navigate this would be appreciated.
Best answer: Yes - the dating stuff is pretty irrelevant here and is probably making you even madder than you would otherwise have been, but there is definitely plenty to be mad about! You've clashed with R in a variety of ways, it doesn't sound like there's anything left to this friendship that gives you joy and community that would balance that out somehow, and I would definitely walk away. (And although I personally would not chase after that money, given that I expect chances of getting it back are slim, you might at least consider it depending on how much you could use it and whether H showed you any kind of evidence trail.)
H - eh, I might well walk away from this one too, but I would probably at least try hearing him out first about what happened, why he didn't tell you at the time, and why he's telling you now.
posted by Stacey at 6:45 AM on July 2 [2 favorites]
H - eh, I might well walk away from this one too, but I would probably at least try hearing him out first about what happened, why he didn't tell you at the time, and why he's telling you now.
posted by Stacey at 6:45 AM on July 2 [2 favorites]
It doesn't sound like you even like R much, so that doesn't seem like much of a question - but for what it's worth, I can understand why they'd be upset that you made a move on a housemate - when I lived in houseshares, one of my rules was "no couples," which is a reasonable position to have given the likelihood of couples to fight/break up - all unpleasant to have unfold in your living space. Charging something of a finders fee for a houseshare one arranges (i.e. not splitting rent evenly) is pretty normal in my experience, though ideally something people are up front about - still, it's by no means theft in any legal sense. But yeah, the diary bit is pretty bad, and I would cut them off for that.
As for H- well, if you want to stay friends with him, I guess I'd consider what it is you need from him for this to happen. An apology? An understanding of why he kept this secret from you? I'd broach it with him by saying "Everything I've learned about R lately is having me feel really hurt, and some of that feeling is overspilling onto how a feel about you given that you allowed R to gossip with you about the contents of my diary - I want to stay friends with you, but can we talk about this?"
posted by coffeecat at 7:10 AM on July 2 [3 favorites]
As for H- well, if you want to stay friends with him, I guess I'd consider what it is you need from him for this to happen. An apology? An understanding of why he kept this secret from you? I'd broach it with him by saying "Everything I've learned about R lately is having me feel really hurt, and some of that feeling is overspilling onto how a feel about you given that you allowed R to gossip with you about the contents of my diary - I want to stay friends with you, but can we talk about this?"
posted by coffeecat at 7:10 AM on July 2 [3 favorites]
Best answer: Am I right to be as outraged as I am about this, and to basically decide to have no contact with this person who I once called a close friend?
Yes, and:
I suggested maybe it was a good thing for her to know how upset and angry I was at what happened.
Once you've bailed out of this situation you should probably talk to somebody about why your first reflex in this situation is to excuse it. I dislike psychoanalyzing strangers on the internet but the first being even a question and the second being a reflexive justification are roughly the same shape.
posted by mhoye at 7:24 AM on July 2 [4 favorites]
Yes, and:
I suggested maybe it was a good thing for her to know how upset and angry I was at what happened.
Once you've bailed out of this situation you should probably talk to somebody about why your first reflex in this situation is to excuse it. I dislike psychoanalyzing strangers on the internet but the first being even a question and the second being a reflexive justification are roughly the same shape.
posted by mhoye at 7:24 AM on July 2 [4 favorites]
H then told me that R has been "giving herself a discount on her room".
And why exactly do you believe a word this person says?? Why do you want to be friends with someone like this anyway?
Not knowing how much the rent is is your fault. True or not, lesson learned to be more careful in the future...or maybe to charge for performing administrative labor for the rest of the household, it just depends on what you want to learn.
You always have a right to feel whatever you feel and take whatever action you deem appropriate for your well-being. Full stop, cutting off people who have proved to be incredibly untrustworthy is absolutely a decision you get to make.
A thinking person will sort through all the feelings and find the lessons to take away from the experience as well, and I think you have some good material to work with here. A lot of people have to have some unpleasant experiences before figuring out significant life wisdom like "roommates are better off acquaintances than friends" and "don't fuck any roommates you weren't fucking when you moved in" and "maintain a locked storage space at least while you're living with people who might let any rando in your door at any time" and "people who were told the contents of your stolen journal a year ago and didn't tell you immediately are not your friend."
If you need a script for H, here's one, "I am absolutely shocked that you found out she'd read my journal a year ago and didn't a) tell me immediately b) refuse to hear details from it. I don't know what's wrong with you, but I hope you get some help. Please lose my contact information immediately."
posted by Lyn Never at 7:49 AM on July 2 [7 favorites]
And why exactly do you believe a word this person says?? Why do you want to be friends with someone like this anyway?
Not knowing how much the rent is is your fault. True or not, lesson learned to be more careful in the future...or maybe to charge for performing administrative labor for the rest of the household, it just depends on what you want to learn.
You always have a right to feel whatever you feel and take whatever action you deem appropriate for your well-being. Full stop, cutting off people who have proved to be incredibly untrustworthy is absolutely a decision you get to make.
A thinking person will sort through all the feelings and find the lessons to take away from the experience as well, and I think you have some good material to work with here. A lot of people have to have some unpleasant experiences before figuring out significant life wisdom like "roommates are better off acquaintances than friends" and "don't fuck any roommates you weren't fucking when you moved in" and "maintain a locked storage space at least while you're living with people who might let any rando in your door at any time" and "people who were told the contents of your stolen journal a year ago and didn't tell you immediately are not your friend."
If you need a script for H, here's one, "I am absolutely shocked that you found out she'd read my journal a year ago and didn't a) tell me immediately b) refuse to hear details from it. I don't know what's wrong with you, but I hope you get some help. Please lose my contact information immediately."
posted by Lyn Never at 7:49 AM on July 2 [7 favorites]
Response by poster: Appreciate the answers so far. Just to comment on one thing-
> significant life wisdom like ... "don't fuck any roommates you weren't fucking when you moved in"
Though I'm sure it's well-meant I'm not really interested in hearing advice on this particular point. (Ironically I went on holiday shortly after V left, and met a happily married couple who met in a houseshare, so I don't consider it at all obvious that it's a universally bad idea.) Thanks.
posted by osmond_nash at 7:55 AM on July 2 [4 favorites]
> significant life wisdom like ... "don't fuck any roommates you weren't fucking when you moved in"
Though I'm sure it's well-meant I'm not really interested in hearing advice on this particular point. (Ironically I went on holiday shortly after V left, and met a happily married couple who met in a houseshare, so I don't consider it at all obvious that it's a universally bad idea.) Thanks.
posted by osmond_nash at 7:55 AM on July 2 [4 favorites]
Response by poster: > Charging something of a finders fee for a houseshare one arranges (i.e. not splitting rent evenly) is pretty normal in my experience, though ideally something people are up front about - still, it's by no means theft in any legal sense.
For clarity, there was no finder's fee - we were all joint signatories on the lease, and jointly and severally liable for it. R's job was just to forward our payments onto the estate agent. Presumably they then would've said "you're paying too much" and we could've had a conversation. Instead she knowingly kept our money. This is someone who I considered a close friend for years.
I'm not sure how it could be anything other than theft, at least in a moral sense, and probably in a legal sense too.
posted by osmond_nash at 7:57 AM on July 2 [1 favorite]
For clarity, there was no finder's fee - we were all joint signatories on the lease, and jointly and severally liable for it. R's job was just to forward our payments onto the estate agent. Presumably they then would've said "you're paying too much" and we could've had a conversation. Instead she knowingly kept our money. This is someone who I considered a close friend for years.
I'm not sure how it could be anything other than theft, at least in a moral sense, and probably in a legal sense too.
posted by osmond_nash at 7:57 AM on July 2 [1 favorite]
Best answer: Nothing good will come from further involvement. Walk away.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 8:02 AM on July 2 [2 favorites]
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 8:02 AM on July 2 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: > but for what it's worth, I can understand why they'd be upset that you made a move on a housemate
Final update from me - perhaps it doesn't matter, but she made a move on me, not the other way round :)
posted by osmond_nash at 8:10 AM on July 2
Final update from me - perhaps it doesn't matter, but she made a move on me, not the other way round :)
posted by osmond_nash at 8:10 AM on July 2
with H, who also asked if there was anything in there about him.
H is significantly worse than R, wanting to reap all the benefits from her violation without taking on any of the responsibility for it. you do not have to be friends with anybody you don’t want to, and shouldn’t, but don’t kid yourself that you being angrier at R than at H is caused by the magnitude of their respective crimes.
and met a happily married couple who met in a houseshare, so I don't consider it at all obvious that it's a universally bad idea.) Thanks
lol the point of the principle is it’s disruptive obnoxious and often intolerable to live with for all the other housemates. not that it has to be a bad idea for you, the couple. of course going after what you want frequently results in you getting what you want, you’re not wrong there, if your concerns end there. but if your concerns end there, living with more than one other person goes badly.
posted by queenofbithynia at 8:14 AM on July 2 [6 favorites]
H is significantly worse than R, wanting to reap all the benefits from her violation without taking on any of the responsibility for it. you do not have to be friends with anybody you don’t want to, and shouldn’t, but don’t kid yourself that you being angrier at R than at H is caused by the magnitude of their respective crimes.
and met a happily married couple who met in a houseshare, so I don't consider it at all obvious that it's a universally bad idea.) Thanks
lol the point of the principle is it’s disruptive obnoxious and often intolerable to live with for all the other housemates. not that it has to be a bad idea for you, the couple. of course going after what you want frequently results in you getting what you want, you’re not wrong there, if your concerns end there. but if your concerns end there, living with more than one other person goes badly.
posted by queenofbithynia at 8:14 AM on July 2 [6 favorites]
Best answer: "...and then discussed it at some length with H, who also asked if there was anything in there about him."
R., in my view, has clearly transgressed to the point of no return, but I don't know that H. is that far behind. When I imagine myself in H.'s position I cannot conceive of a scenario in which my response was not some version of "you read what, what in the absolute fuck, that is deeply not okay," followed by immediately telling my good friend (or even an acquaintance/roommate!) what had happened. The fact that he sat there and listened to the incredibly private details at length and then asked for more.. this is not the behavior of a trustworthy friend- or a person of integrity, period.
posted by wormtales at 8:18 AM on July 2 [22 favorites]
R., in my view, has clearly transgressed to the point of no return, but I don't know that H. is that far behind. When I imagine myself in H.'s position I cannot conceive of a scenario in which my response was not some version of "you read what, what in the absolute fuck, that is deeply not okay," followed by immediately telling my good friend (or even an acquaintance/roommate!) what had happened. The fact that he sat there and listened to the incredibly private details at length and then asked for more.. this is not the behavior of a trustworthy friend- or a person of integrity, period.
posted by wormtales at 8:18 AM on July 2 [22 favorites]
For clarity, there was no finder's fee
To clarify, I'm not talking about a formal finders fee - but rather that, in my experience, when someone finds a houseshare and organizes housemates, they will give themself a discounted monthly rent as a sort of informal finder's fee. Again, the responsible way to do this is with transparency, but the practice is not unusual.
posted by coffeecat at 9:11 AM on July 2 [2 favorites]
To clarify, I'm not talking about a formal finders fee - but rather that, in my experience, when someone finds a houseshare and organizes housemates, they will give themself a discounted monthly rent as a sort of informal finder's fee. Again, the responsible way to do this is with transparency, but the practice is not unusual.
posted by coffeecat at 9:11 AM on July 2 [2 favorites]
Best answer: The fact that you're asking whether you have the right to be outraged about this answers your last question. Of course everything is going to feel wrong when you don't feel like you have the right to have reasonable boundaries, and you don't trust your reactions to things. I don't understand why you want to stay friends with H after this. I wouldn't want to be friends with somebody who was read my diary and didn't stop listening and tell me immediately.
posted by wheatlets at 9:40 AM on July 2 [5 favorites]
posted by wheatlets at 9:40 AM on July 2 [5 favorites]
Best answer: Might be worth booking an hour of a lawyer's time to talk about R's theft of [whatever percentage of] your rent. You may be able to take her to small claims court. Or just a strongly worded letter from the lawyer with the threat of doing that might suffice for you to get something back.
You'd need to know what the actual rent was to know how much you were overpaying. The lawyer could help you request this info from your landlord.
posted by Pallas Athena at 9:44 AM on July 2 [3 favorites]
You'd need to know what the actual rent was to know how much you were overpaying. The lawyer could help you request this info from your landlord.
posted by Pallas Athena at 9:44 AM on July 2 [3 favorites]
Best answer: Friends have our best interests at heart. Neither of these people have demonstrated that. You would be best served by moving on from both H & R.
Don't look back. Go live your best life.
posted by brookeb at 9:57 AM on July 2 [8 favorites]
Don't look back. Go live your best life.
posted by brookeb at 9:57 AM on July 2 [8 favorites]
Best answer: These are bad people. I try my hardest to never associate with bad people.
There is a difference between being friendly with someone and being friends with that same someone. Sometimes the line between friendly and friends gets blurred and you do not know what is the truth until hindsight.
I think you were deceived and ripped off regarding the rent. When you signed the lease, did it not have the financial total obligation spelled out? Regardless, when a similar situation happens to me, I look at it on a micro level. Not did I pay too much toward my "fair share", but, rather, did I willingly enter into the transaction and absence this new information did I think I got value for my share of the rent. In isolation, or in a different situation, would paying say 1,000 pounds for your room be something you would do again or you think was reasonable?
I think the best course of action, rather than getting deeper with a lawyer or even just a conversation with these bad people is to flag it and move on as the kids say. Lessons learned.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 10:09 AM on July 2 [7 favorites]
There is a difference between being friendly with someone and being friends with that same someone. Sometimes the line between friendly and friends gets blurred and you do not know what is the truth until hindsight.
I think you were deceived and ripped off regarding the rent. When you signed the lease, did it not have the financial total obligation spelled out? Regardless, when a similar situation happens to me, I look at it on a micro level. Not did I pay too much toward my "fair share", but, rather, did I willingly enter into the transaction and absence this new information did I think I got value for my share of the rent. In isolation, or in a different situation, would paying say 1,000 pounds for your room be something you would do again or you think was reasonable?
I think the best course of action, rather than getting deeper with a lawyer or even just a conversation with these bad people is to flag it and move on as the kids say. Lessons learned.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 10:09 AM on July 2 [7 favorites]
On a practical level: if you're a signatory on a lease you should know yourself how much you owe, and pay that amount. If you've been paying more than it says on the lease, that's on you as well as on R, though in your case it's a sin of carelessness.
(I would be pretty furious about some bullshit "finder's fee" I wasn't informed about up front.)
On an emotional level: you can feel anything you want about anyone, there's not really a right or wrong about it. Right or wrong is about actions, not generally feelings, though some feelings are more helpful to you than others.
posted by trig at 10:12 AM on July 2 [4 favorites]
(I would be pretty furious about some bullshit "finder's fee" I wasn't informed about up front.)
On an emotional level: you can feel anything you want about anyone, there's not really a right or wrong about it. Right or wrong is about actions, not generally feelings, though some feelings are more helpful to you than others.
posted by trig at 10:12 AM on July 2 [4 favorites]
To clarify: when you move in with other people, there is an expectation that nobody is going change the major terms of the dynamic, which includes having a different relationship than the one everyone agreed to as a baseline. I wasn't giving relationship advice, I was giving roommate advice.
Feel free to move out and do what you want with whomever you want, and I'm willing to bet your friends ended up with roommates who had to involuntarily deal with their shit too so that's not the coup you think it is. Other people exist, not just you, when you live in a shared environment. Having a baby, getting a pet, having an addiction, taking up Irish dancing, getting divorced, deciding to move someone in with you, etc - these things do not happen in a vacuum when you are sharing a living space with others, and you don't get to do them without taking responsibility for the changes they cause for others, up to and including going elsewhere to do it. THAT is why you don't start fucking your roommates.
This is why acquaintances who are not super close but share your core values around cleanliness, noise, visitors, smells, and how the common and private areas should be used tend to make far more solid roommates than complex social entanglements do.
posted by Lyn Never at 10:45 AM on July 2 [4 favorites]
Feel free to move out and do what you want with whomever you want, and I'm willing to bet your friends ended up with roommates who had to involuntarily deal with their shit too so that's not the coup you think it is. Other people exist, not just you, when you live in a shared environment. Having a baby, getting a pet, having an addiction, taking up Irish dancing, getting divorced, deciding to move someone in with you, etc - these things do not happen in a vacuum when you are sharing a living space with others, and you don't get to do them without taking responsibility for the changes they cause for others, up to and including going elsewhere to do it. THAT is why you don't start fucking your roommates.
This is why acquaintances who are not super close but share your core values around cleanliness, noise, visitors, smells, and how the common and private areas should be used tend to make far more solid roommates than complex social entanglements do.
posted by Lyn Never at 10:45 AM on July 2 [4 favorites]
Best answer: Ugh, both R and H are horrible people, but like some of the others I'm inclined to see his transgression as even worse. He knew R had violated your privacy and his first reaction, rather than shutting her down, was to keep listening and ask for more info about himself?? And he's bringing it up to you a year later? Why now, if not to stir the sh*t and cause more drama just as the situation dies down?
Neither of these people are true friends, good roommates, or even decent human beings. The past romance is another irritant, but kind of a red herring in all of this. In your shoes, I'd drop the idea that either of them will ever be different, cut ties with the whole situation and work on surrounding myself with honest, respectful people capable of caring for someone other than themselves.
posted by rpfields at 11:08 AM on July 2 [6 favorites]
Neither of these people are true friends, good roommates, or even decent human beings. The past romance is another irritant, but kind of a red herring in all of this. In your shoes, I'd drop the idea that either of them will ever be different, cut ties with the whole situation and work on surrounding myself with honest, respectful people capable of caring for someone other than themselves.
posted by rpfields at 11:08 AM on July 2 [6 favorites]
Am I right to be as outraged as I am about this, and to basically decide to have no contact with this person who I once called a close friend?
It's not a matter of right or wrong; you can choose to feel how you feel and respond how you respond. FWIW I would be outraged about the journal reading, and decide not to interact with that person any more.
As far as rent goes: it happens pretty often that a renter will provide themselves a reduced or free room via subletters. In the future I'd look into lease situations more carefully to avoid this sort of thing if it bothers you. Some people are fine with it if they feel they get their money's worth. Other people are not.
H sounds like a piece of work. That's a person that I'd keep at arm's distance because they seem to be fine with hurting you by dishing all this dirt.
posted by oneirodynia at 11:12 AM on July 2 [2 favorites]
It's not a matter of right or wrong; you can choose to feel how you feel and respond how you respond. FWIW I would be outraged about the journal reading, and decide not to interact with that person any more.
As far as rent goes: it happens pretty often that a renter will provide themselves a reduced or free room via subletters. In the future I'd look into lease situations more carefully to avoid this sort of thing if it bothers you. Some people are fine with it if they feel they get their money's worth. Other people are not.
H sounds like a piece of work. That's a person that I'd keep at arm's distance because they seem to be fine with hurting you by dishing all this dirt.
posted by oneirodynia at 11:12 AM on July 2 [2 favorites]
Reading your story, the question in my mind is - why is H suddenly bringing you all this information about R now? This seems like a bit of a watch your back situation with housemates. My baroque mind wonders if you are being set up to vacate your room.
I wouldn’t trust either of them. I myself wouldn’t care a whole lot about the rent thing as long as I had gotten a good spot to leave out of it, but I might be more careful next time.
posted by warriorqueen at 12:45 PM on July 2 [3 favorites]
I wouldn’t trust either of them. I myself wouldn’t care a whole lot about the rent thing as long as I had gotten a good spot to leave out of it, but I might be more careful next time.
posted by warriorqueen at 12:45 PM on July 2 [3 favorites]
Response by poster: Thanks for the answers so far.
Not sure how I can be clearer about this - I did not ask about, and do not want to hear, your opinions on the rightness or wrongness of sleeping with your housemates. I'm also not interested in your opinions on what makes a good houseshare or who make the best housemates - didn't ask, and not relevant to my question. Thanks.
For context, I don't live in that house any more - hence past tense "lived" in my opening post. I planned on moving out once things kicked off with V to give it a go with her, but she broke it off before I had a chance to. I ended up moving out a few months later anyway.
posted by osmond_nash at 2:48 PM on July 2 [9 favorites]
Not sure how I can be clearer about this - I did not ask about, and do not want to hear, your opinions on the rightness or wrongness of sleeping with your housemates. I'm also not interested in your opinions on what makes a good houseshare or who make the best housemates - didn't ask, and not relevant to my question. Thanks.
For context, I don't live in that house any more - hence past tense "lived" in my opening post. I planned on moving out once things kicked off with V to give it a go with her, but she broke it off before I had a chance to. I ended up moving out a few months later anyway.
posted by osmond_nash at 2:48 PM on July 2 [9 favorites]
Response by poster: Ostensibly the reason H is bringing this up now is that I noted that R hasn't been in touch since I moved out. He then told me about her reading my journal as a sort of explanation - I guess the idea being that she read the nasty things I wrote and figured I wouldn't want to hear from her.
posted by osmond_nash at 2:51 PM on July 2
posted by osmond_nash at 2:51 PM on July 2
Oh wow, nope, unless you have something in writing that is obviously, and by all reasonable expectations fraudulent, there is reeeeeeaaally *no point* calling a lawyer.
Examples of things that not count:
* Having signed the lease for the *whole* flat with the sum total
+
* Written confirmation of what *your* per room price was (and that being more than you would expect an even division to be)
Because, the price for the flat does not dictate what you collectively decide per room price is, as rooms differ in size and quality, and it's frequently common for the person who deals with the flat accounts to get a discount on their rent or an 'admin' fee.
If you have proof of the total lease amount and written confirmation of *your* room amount, then all that would prove is that you knew the lease total and *agreed* in writing to that room price.
You'd have to have a paper trail of straight up lies, "the landlord has raised the rent by X amount" when they hadn't, to have a chance of a small claim.
Make sure the current housemates know, but otherwise you'll probably just have to let it go.
***
I don't know if this helps, but while it's possible this person read your whole entire diary, if they were acting self-centred, then it's more likely that they just flicked through all the pages looking for their *own* name to jump out, and just read those parts.
I would and have found it to be a betrayal of trust, but many people are pretty shameless about it, and if it's not locked up with a key, don't consider it private. 🙃
I'm sorry, it sucks, but it sounds like you don't have to deal with these people if you don't want to.
posted by Elysum at 8:27 PM on July 2 [1 favorite]
Examples of things that not count:
* Having signed the lease for the *whole* flat with the sum total
+
* Written confirmation of what *your* per room price was (and that being more than you would expect an even division to be)
Because, the price for the flat does not dictate what you collectively decide per room price is, as rooms differ in size and quality, and it's frequently common for the person who deals with the flat accounts to get a discount on their rent or an 'admin' fee.
If you have proof of the total lease amount and written confirmation of *your* room amount, then all that would prove is that you knew the lease total and *agreed* in writing to that room price.
You'd have to have a paper trail of straight up lies, "the landlord has raised the rent by X amount" when they hadn't, to have a chance of a small claim.
Make sure the current housemates know, but otherwise you'll probably just have to let it go.
***
I don't know if this helps, but while it's possible this person read your whole entire diary, if they were acting self-centred, then it's more likely that they just flicked through all the pages looking for their *own* name to jump out, and just read those parts.
I would and have found it to be a betrayal of trust, but many people are pretty shameless about it, and if it's not locked up with a key, don't consider it private. 🙃
I'm sorry, it sucks, but it sounds like you don't have to deal with these people if you don't want to.
posted by Elysum at 8:27 PM on July 2 [1 favorite]
Best answer: They both suck for this. H may just be a weak person rather than bad one, in which case I say you might as well stay friends, just acknowledging that they don’t really have any kind of spine. It’s fine to be friends with people who aren’t great or who have fucked up in the past if you enjoy being around them.
posted by knobknosher at 7:17 AM on July 3 [1 favorite]
posted by knobknosher at 7:17 AM on July 3 [1 favorite]
Best answer: “It’s fine to be friends with people who aren’t great or who have fucked up in the past if you enjoy being around them.”
I disagree pretty strongly with this, based on my experience as a person who used to have similar problems to osmond_nash - specifically, the constant feeling that everything is wrong, and questions about whether it was ok to feel the way I did when wronged by somebody.
I agree with your statement that it’s ok to be friends with people who have fucked up in the past. I’m willing to forgive people for huge things as long as they are generally a positive presence in my life, or were in the past, or have the potential to be in the future.
However, I regret spending so much of my time in the past with people who I enjoyed being around but didn’t treat me very well. I think that with the place osmond_nash is right now (not sure if it’s ok to feel outraged by something most would consider a major violation), I would advise them to trust the way they feel and err on the side of cutting people off.
There’s no need to make it a big dramatic thing, just avoid them for a bit until you feel like your boundaries are more solid. Surround yourself with people who treat you so well that you don’t have to ask these questions, and people like H will most likely still be around in a few years if you decide you want to reconnect.
posted by wheatlets at 8:08 AM on July 3 [2 favorites]
I disagree pretty strongly with this, based on my experience as a person who used to have similar problems to osmond_nash - specifically, the constant feeling that everything is wrong, and questions about whether it was ok to feel the way I did when wronged by somebody.
I agree with your statement that it’s ok to be friends with people who have fucked up in the past. I’m willing to forgive people for huge things as long as they are generally a positive presence in my life, or were in the past, or have the potential to be in the future.
However, I regret spending so much of my time in the past with people who I enjoyed being around but didn’t treat me very well. I think that with the place osmond_nash is right now (not sure if it’s ok to feel outraged by something most would consider a major violation), I would advise them to trust the way they feel and err on the side of cutting people off.
There’s no need to make it a big dramatic thing, just avoid them for a bit until you feel like your boundaries are more solid. Surround yourself with people who treat you so well that you don’t have to ask these questions, and people like H will most likely still be around in a few years if you decide you want to reconnect.
posted by wheatlets at 8:08 AM on July 3 [2 favorites]
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H doesn't get a pass either. I can think of one interpretation where they may have been shocked at hearing the journal story and knew about the rent but perhaps couldn't find a way to tell you...well, I could see myself struggling to have a hard conversation like that. But remaining friends with R, knowing that?
Wash your hands of the both of them. Tell the other housemates. Move.
posted by BlahLaLa at 6:26 AM on July 2 [18 favorites]