How to seek religion? Starting point: agnostic.
June 26, 2024 3:57 PM Subscribe
I find myself interested in religious practice as I get older. However I have a long history of agnosticism that I am finding difficult to reconcile with potential faiths. Additionally, I am not trying to sign up for something that pits me against other people based on their creed/sexuality/gender/etc. Can you help me square this circle?
What appeals to me is the idea of adhering to a higher purpose than one created by myself, a purpose that may exist outside of the whims of humanity. (Of course religion is created by humans, but nevertheless.) I feel like it would be very satisfying to engage in prayer rituals (e.g. using a prayer mat and answering the call of the muezzin, wearing a kippah) and celebrate holidays with more purpose than the consumerism or general "being together" vibe of American secular Xmas/Thanksgiving.
But I am having trouble wrapping my head around the idea of taking an entire new body of knowledge and belief as essentially fact, when I find many of what I understand these beliefs to be to be inherently unknowable. And I also feel like picking and choosing the parts I like sort of negates the point of signing up (I heard an NPR story once where a person said that "if you follow a religion and remove all the parts you disagree with, you're really just worshipping yourself").
If you are someone who was previously not religious and now follows some kind of organized tradition, how did you go about this journey? Did you use any particular resources to "narrow down" the faith you would join? How do you handle the more incredible or regressive aspects of your newfound faith tradition—do you put up with them, ignore them, or just buy in? How many other religions did you try and for how long before you settled on a particular one?
Notes:
- Mostly interested in specific faiths/practices where people do things together to some extent--so not just generally being "down with nature" or similar. Similarly, am looking for a faith where I have to actually do things, whether it be praying, fasting, or the like. Physical house of worship optional but welcome.
- Suggestions of books to read or other media to consume are more than welcome.
- You are welcome to suggest particular faiths or interpretations thereof, but also general accounts of "how to find one's spiritual way" are helpful.
What appeals to me is the idea of adhering to a higher purpose than one created by myself, a purpose that may exist outside of the whims of humanity. (Of course religion is created by humans, but nevertheless.) I feel like it would be very satisfying to engage in prayer rituals (e.g. using a prayer mat and answering the call of the muezzin, wearing a kippah) and celebrate holidays with more purpose than the consumerism or general "being together" vibe of American secular Xmas/Thanksgiving.
But I am having trouble wrapping my head around the idea of taking an entire new body of knowledge and belief as essentially fact, when I find many of what I understand these beliefs to be to be inherently unknowable. And I also feel like picking and choosing the parts I like sort of negates the point of signing up (I heard an NPR story once where a person said that "if you follow a religion and remove all the parts you disagree with, you're really just worshipping yourself").
If you are someone who was previously not religious and now follows some kind of organized tradition, how did you go about this journey? Did you use any particular resources to "narrow down" the faith you would join? How do you handle the more incredible or regressive aspects of your newfound faith tradition—do you put up with them, ignore them, or just buy in? How many other religions did you try and for how long before you settled on a particular one?
Notes:
- Mostly interested in specific faiths/practices where people do things together to some extent--so not just generally being "down with nature" or similar. Similarly, am looking for a faith where I have to actually do things, whether it be praying, fasting, or the like. Physical house of worship optional but welcome.
- Suggestions of books to read or other media to consume are more than welcome.
- You are welcome to suggest particular faiths or interpretations thereof, but also general accounts of "how to find one's spiritual way" are helpful.
Hi! I could have written this question; I'm doing a lot of that seeking now within the Christian faith. I started by joining a local lefty Presbyterian Church after 25 years of avoiding anything religious at all. This was an easy lift for me since I grew up going to church and already knew about the social justice and community support work that churches can do and I could get behind that. Just getting involved in volunteering with them and watching how they love and care for each other has been rewarding. Participating in the mission and study activities have made me feel like I'm getting a little of what you're looking for.
I'm also reading the basics on Christian faith like C.S. Lewis's Mere Christianity. I bounced off of it because of his crappy gender and sexuality stuff though, which was frustrating. I enjoyed reading a lot of Episcopal Bishop John Shelby Spong. I recommend checking out his "Jesus for the non religious" book. He essentially says that all that miracle and god-in-heaven stuff is a human thought exercise that helps us deal with the terror of human consciousness (my words, not his) and he talks about how to reconcile that with being a part of a modern faith community. I also found a daily devotional I like (Gift and Task) that's a kind of smarty-pants intellectual Bible guide.
All of these things together haven't made me believe in angels or miracles or anything like that. I'm not even sure if I believe in God like my church peers do. However, the work I'm doing through the church and the time I'm spending on the reading are scratching that itch of looking for something a little deeper in life.
After about a year I think I'm happier and I feel less despair and more hope and gratitude. I'm more involved in my community and I have met some impressive people who can be good role models for a rewarding life well lived. I'm around people who give and receive love more freely than I'm used to, and I get to see and hear about the positive effects our work has on the community and in the world. I think it's great to be open to every way of trying to find that deeper meaning and purpose in our lives. Hope this helps!
posted by kinsey at 4:27 PM on June 26 [3 favorites]
I'm also reading the basics on Christian faith like C.S. Lewis's Mere Christianity. I bounced off of it because of his crappy gender and sexuality stuff though, which was frustrating. I enjoyed reading a lot of Episcopal Bishop John Shelby Spong. I recommend checking out his "Jesus for the non religious" book. He essentially says that all that miracle and god-in-heaven stuff is a human thought exercise that helps us deal with the terror of human consciousness (my words, not his) and he talks about how to reconcile that with being a part of a modern faith community. I also found a daily devotional I like (Gift and Task) that's a kind of smarty-pants intellectual Bible guide.
All of these things together haven't made me believe in angels or miracles or anything like that. I'm not even sure if I believe in God like my church peers do. However, the work I'm doing through the church and the time I'm spending on the reading are scratching that itch of looking for something a little deeper in life.
After about a year I think I'm happier and I feel less despair and more hope and gratitude. I'm more involved in my community and I have met some impressive people who can be good role models for a rewarding life well lived. I'm around people who give and receive love more freely than I'm used to, and I get to see and hear about the positive effects our work has on the community and in the world. I think it's great to be open to every way of trying to find that deeper meaning and purpose in our lives. Hope this helps!
posted by kinsey at 4:27 PM on June 26 [3 favorites]
Bhuddism. It's very individualized if you desire: put up a figure of guanyin, or Bhudda, and burn some incense daily while reflect and meditate. OR you can go to a Bhuddist temple when you feel like it, eat vegan when it's called for... You choose how deep you want to participate.
posted by kschang at 4:31 PM on June 26 [6 favorites]
posted by kschang at 4:31 PM on June 26 [6 favorites]
if there's a local Zen practice center near you, they often have a beginner/newcomer evening where they teach the basics of sitting meditation. probably other Buddhist branches have something similar. my personality familiarity is with Zen.
posted by kokaku at 4:36 PM on June 26 [3 favorites]
posted by kokaku at 4:36 PM on June 26 [3 favorites]
I am a Unitarian Universalist with agnostic beliefs. I've found the combination of ritual (e.g. attending worship services and Earth-centered spirituality services, singing hymns and singing in the choir, participating in small-group ministry and working with a spiritual director) and freedom of belief in my UU congregation very helpful.
Each congregation is very individual in what they offer - but definitely options for finding meaningful ways to connect with purpose greater than oneself and ritual while honoring one's own sense of truth.
Some UUs also simultaneously practice in other faith communities e.g. a Buddhist sangha or a Jewish synagogue if they feel drawn to a specific faith tradition. UU spaces can be a helpful place to explore beliefs even for people who end up then connecting with a different faith tradition.
posted by beryllium at 4:43 PM on June 26 [15 favorites]
Each congregation is very individual in what they offer - but definitely options for finding meaningful ways to connect with purpose greater than oneself and ritual while honoring one's own sense of truth.
Some UUs also simultaneously practice in other faith communities e.g. a Buddhist sangha or a Jewish synagogue if they feel drawn to a specific faith tradition. UU spaces can be a helpful place to explore beliefs even for people who end up then connecting with a different faith tradition.
posted by beryllium at 4:43 PM on June 26 [15 favorites]
Best answer: I wonder if you would like the book Comedy Sex God by Pete Holmes. He is a standup comedian, raised devout Christian. The book is his story of how he left the church and then found a spiritual practice that he is enthusiastic about. I was not the biggest fan of his writing style but his story is interesting enough to me that I am still thinking about it a month after reading the book, and I am in no way searching for a faith update. It won’t give you five ritual steps to follow but it might give you an idea of a place to start looking.
Since he’s a comedian there are also a lot of masturbation euphemisms, so there’s that. It is not a traditional spiritual guide.
posted by Vatnesine at 4:52 PM on June 26
Since he’s a comedian there are also a lot of masturbation euphemisms, so there’s that. It is not a traditional spiritual guide.
posted by Vatnesine at 4:52 PM on June 26
Best answer: I think you might enjoy the book The Spiral Staircase: My Journey Out of Darkness by Karen Armstrong. It's a memoir about her journey from a convent to atheism to being a full-time religious scholar. There's some wonderful stuff at the end about how religion is less about belief and more about the actual practice of it.
posted by leftover_scrabble_rack at 5:00 PM on June 26 [5 favorites]
posted by leftover_scrabble_rack at 5:00 PM on June 26 [5 favorites]
Mostly interested in specific faiths/practices where people do things together to some extent
Thich Nhat Hanh's explication of the Buddhist conceptualization of sangha may be something you appreciate: "taking refuge in the sangha, taking refuge in the community, is a very strong and important practice. When I say, “I take refuge in the sangha,” it does not mean that I want to express my devotion. No. It’s not a question of devotion; it’s a question of practice." [lionsroar]
Suggestions of books to read or other media to consume are more than welcome
Emmanuel Levinas, i.e. "A common thread runs through his philosophy and his Talmudic readings. Transcendence is one of his words for the spontaneity of responsibility for another person. Responsibility is experienced in concrete life and is variously expressed, from words like “here I am” to apologies and self-accounting. This is the case, Levinas argues, even before a de facto command is heard or reflected on. This surprising proposition hearkens to the debated meaning of Jews “receiving the Torah before knowing what was written in it” (NTR: 42–43). Levinas names this responsiveness Platonically the “Good beyond being”. We perform that good, that trace of the infinite, because instances of answering to or for another are everyday events, though they may not appear typical of natural or self-interested behaviors. Above all, we do not choose to be responsible. Responsibility arises as if elicited, before we begin to think about it, by the approach of the other person." [Stanford]
posted by HearHere at 6:01 PM on June 26 [2 favorites]
Thich Nhat Hanh's explication of the Buddhist conceptualization of sangha may be something you appreciate: "taking refuge in the sangha, taking refuge in the community, is a very strong and important practice. When I say, “I take refuge in the sangha,” it does not mean that I want to express my devotion. No. It’s not a question of devotion; it’s a question of practice." [lionsroar]
Suggestions of books to read or other media to consume are more than welcome
Emmanuel Levinas, i.e. "A common thread runs through his philosophy and his Talmudic readings. Transcendence is one of his words for the spontaneity of responsibility for another person. Responsibility is experienced in concrete life and is variously expressed, from words like “here I am” to apologies and self-accounting. This is the case, Levinas argues, even before a de facto command is heard or reflected on. This surprising proposition hearkens to the debated meaning of Jews “receiving the Torah before knowing what was written in it” (NTR: 42–43). Levinas names this responsiveness Platonically the “Good beyond being”. We perform that good, that trace of the infinite, because instances of answering to or for another are everyday events, though they may not appear typical of natural or self-interested behaviors. Above all, we do not choose to be responsible. Responsibility arises as if elicited, before we begin to think about it, by the approach of the other person." [Stanford]
posted by HearHere at 6:01 PM on June 26 [2 favorites]
Best answer: I agree that a Unitarian Universalist church is a good place to start. I don't attend one regularly but I've been to one with my agnostic friend (but we have similar witchy beliefs). Not all UU churches are the same so you may be limited by what's in your community, but it's a starting point.
posted by edencosmic at 6:16 PM on June 26 [1 favorite]
posted by edencosmic at 6:16 PM on June 26 [1 favorite]
Best answer: I had 16 years of Catholic education and am now 70 years old. I have had plenty of time to "side eye" some aspects of the Catholic tradition. I second reading C. S. Lewis "Mere Christianity", and G. K. Chesterton's book "Orthodoxy" (J. R. R. Tolkien was friends with those guys). Enlarging from religion to philosophy, I would recommend Raymond Smullyan's Is God a Taoist. Taking a side jaunt over to psychology there is Victor Frankl's "Man's Search for Meaning" (trigger warning: holocaust stories). Under the humor category is the martyr St. Lawrence whose supposedly last words as he was being burned to death: "I'm well done on this side. Turn me over!"
Like many college students I drifted away and only made peace with the Church and returned in preparation for my wife and I getting married in the Church. I took the first step by deciding that I was able to truthfully recite the Nicene Creed.
A (relatively) unique aspect of the Roman Catholic Church that is hard for many to accept but I believe is the actual presence in the consecrated host and wine of the body and blood of Jesus Christ.
Of course all of the above is not meant to specifically recommend Catholicism. However it is (I think) accurate to say that many religions are off-shoots due to theological/political differences or scandalous popes.
At my age I tend to take the position that I am a Catholic until they throw me out (not much time for that). If I had to look elsewhere I have heard good things about Quakers. Also I have been watching the YouTube channel Rev Ed Trevors, an Anglican priest from Halifax Nova Scotia. The guy makes a lot of sense (note: he does drift into politics sometimes).
I agree with the earlier comment about mysticism in the Catholic Church. For instance St. Teresa of Avila is a "Doctor of the Church". At the other extreme an Italian Teenager by the name of Carlo Acutis may become the first Millennial Saint for his sharing the traditions of the Church through the Internet.
I believe Catholicism is definitely a religion that does things together (Sunday Mass, Confession, Lent, Easter, Funeral Masses and Burials, Anointing of the Sick, Programs for Youth and the Poor, Religious Retreats, etc.)
With regard to "how to find one's spiritual way" I once heard a radio preacher say "You make the first move towards God, then God makes His move, then you make the next move, and so on. But eventually you realize that He actually made the first move. FWIW. YMMV.
posted by forthright at 6:48 PM on June 26 [2 favorites]
Like many college students I drifted away and only made peace with the Church and returned in preparation for my wife and I getting married in the Church. I took the first step by deciding that I was able to truthfully recite the Nicene Creed.
A (relatively) unique aspect of the Roman Catholic Church that is hard for many to accept but I believe is the actual presence in the consecrated host and wine of the body and blood of Jesus Christ.
Of course all of the above is not meant to specifically recommend Catholicism. However it is (I think) accurate to say that many religions are off-shoots due to theological/political differences or scandalous popes.
At my age I tend to take the position that I am a Catholic until they throw me out (not much time for that). If I had to look elsewhere I have heard good things about Quakers. Also I have been watching the YouTube channel Rev Ed Trevors, an Anglican priest from Halifax Nova Scotia. The guy makes a lot of sense (note: he does drift into politics sometimes).
I agree with the earlier comment about mysticism in the Catholic Church. For instance St. Teresa of Avila is a "Doctor of the Church". At the other extreme an Italian Teenager by the name of Carlo Acutis may become the first Millennial Saint for his sharing the traditions of the Church through the Internet.
I believe Catholicism is definitely a religion that does things together (Sunday Mass, Confession, Lent, Easter, Funeral Masses and Burials, Anointing of the Sick, Programs for Youth and the Poor, Religious Retreats, etc.)
With regard to "how to find one's spiritual way" I once heard a radio preacher say "You make the first move towards God, then God makes His move, then you make the next move, and so on. But eventually you realize that He actually made the first move. FWIW. YMMV.
posted by forthright at 6:48 PM on June 26 [2 favorites]
I agree that a Unitarian Universalist church is a good place to start.
Me too. If nothing else you will be exposed to a wide variety of religious traditions and perhaps one or more will speak to you. If you’re in an area with multiple Unitarian churches, you might want to try them out to see which one is a good match.
"The only thing standard in Unitarian Universalist services is the coffee and donuts."
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 7:28 PM on June 26
Me too. If nothing else you will be exposed to a wide variety of religious traditions and perhaps one or more will speak to you. If you’re in an area with multiple Unitarian churches, you might want to try them out to see which one is a good match.
"The only thing standard in Unitarian Universalist services is the coffee and donuts."
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 7:28 PM on June 26
Everyone I know who is involved in a UU congregation seems to get a lot of satisfaction and peace and community out of it even if they do not have much interest in an actual faith-based spiritual practice. I know several atheists and even people with religious trauma who go (and, as I said above, really enjoy participating) because they want their kids to get the positive aspects and feel empowered to have some kind of spiritual path on their own terms and in a place of safety.
posted by Lyn Never at 7:47 PM on June 26 [2 favorites]
posted by Lyn Never at 7:47 PM on June 26 [2 favorites]
Not every religion requires "belief in a higher power" or any particular set of beliefs at all. Christianity generally does (even if individual Christians don't), and because it's the dominant religion in the U.S., people think that applies to all religions. Paganism is generally more about what you do (rituals, being in community, moon circles, etc.) than what you believe. I belong to a Wicca group and we have atheists, agnostics, monotheists, and polytheists, and all of those beliefs (and more) are accepted and not really the point of the religion. My understanding is that Judaism is more about "whose you are" (that is, the community) than about strict adherence to beliefs (or at least more so than most Christian denominations).
I joined a UU congregation as an agnostic (raised agnostic) because I wanted community. I then had a conversion experience that led me into paganism, and then Wicca, which has been more spiritually fulfilling for me. But there are days I definitely feel like I'm going through the motions, and I've learned that sometimes going through the motions is helpful to me personally, that committing to a set of actions is useful and meaningful in and of itself, regardless if any gods are getting anything out of it. It's helped me to shift the point of religion from "what I believe" to "what I do."
posted by lapis at 7:50 PM on June 26 [5 favorites]
I joined a UU congregation as an agnostic (raised agnostic) because I wanted community. I then had a conversion experience that led me into paganism, and then Wicca, which has been more spiritually fulfilling for me. But there are days I definitely feel like I'm going through the motions, and I've learned that sometimes going through the motions is helpful to me personally, that committing to a set of actions is useful and meaningful in and of itself, regardless if any gods are getting anything out of it. It's helped me to shift the point of religion from "what I believe" to "what I do."
posted by lapis at 7:50 PM on June 26 [5 favorites]
My rabbi once had his town's library ask him to give a talk about God. He turned them down, laughing: "Why don't you have me talk about something I know anything about?" He points out that the idea of theology is hilariously arrogant on the face of it. The study/science of God? Okay, playa.
It's a Christian-centric idea that religion is somehow inherently based on faith/belief/adherence to dogma. In some religions, practicing the rituals is the most important thing. Or obeying the religious laws. Or studying and asking good questions and having scholarly arguments about the holy books. Or engaging in good works and bettering the world. You don't automatically have to take on a set of beliefs you don't believe in order to be religious. I spent most of my years from age 5 to age 35 interviewing and rejecting religions, houses of worship, and clergy. Might have been a hundred of 'em or more that weren't for me. I tried a lot of versions of church. And then I found one that didn't ask me to believe anything I couldn't believe; so I converted. I have a whole Jewish family now.
All that to say, honor your desire to explore and try things out. If God is in it for you, I promise you'll know when you find it.
posted by shadygrove at 8:07 PM on June 26 [16 favorites]
It's a Christian-centric idea that religion is somehow inherently based on faith/belief/adherence to dogma. In some religions, practicing the rituals is the most important thing. Or obeying the religious laws. Or studying and asking good questions and having scholarly arguments about the holy books. Or engaging in good works and bettering the world. You don't automatically have to take on a set of beliefs you don't believe in order to be religious. I spent most of my years from age 5 to age 35 interviewing and rejecting religions, houses of worship, and clergy. Might have been a hundred of 'em or more that weren't for me. I tried a lot of versions of church. And then I found one that didn't ask me to believe anything I couldn't believe; so I converted. I have a whole Jewish family now.
All that to say, honor your desire to explore and try things out. If God is in it for you, I promise you'll know when you find it.
posted by shadygrove at 8:07 PM on June 26 [16 favorites]
Someone already mentioned Unitarians. I'd add Stoicism and humanist groups/communities.
posted by concinnity at 8:21 PM on June 26
posted by concinnity at 8:21 PM on June 26
You may find this op-ed called "Belief is the Least Part of Faith" by anthropologist Tanya Luhrmann, which kind of builds on the work of 19th century sociologist Emile Durkheim, whose take was that religion was a way for society to worship itself, resonant or thought-provoking.
posted by virve at 9:22 PM on June 26 [1 favorite]
posted by virve at 9:22 PM on June 26 [1 favorite]
I’m a UU Buddhist rationalist agnostic and I second the recommendations above for UU and/or Buddhism.
posted by matildaben at 10:09 PM on June 26
posted by matildaben at 10:09 PM on June 26
Best answer: I was raised vaguely Church of E with a very agnostic parent and stopped believing as a child, then about 15 years later went into an Orthodox church on a work-related errand and afterwards asked the priest when the next services were and now most of my family is Orthodox. When asked, all I can say is that I stepped in and went 'oh, I'm home', and that was it.
I will say that pre-Orthodox church, theological books seemed incomprehensible to me, like extremely bad translations where I didn't know the source language at all. Afterwards I could haltingly and then more fluently read them - including in other religions - because I got what they were talking about now in practice, not just theory.
Rachel Held Evan's Searching for Sundays is an extremely well written book on different approaches to Christian faith that includes many people searching from non-belief, dis-belief, failed belief etc.
I think Le Guin's Lao Tzu book is a very good way to look into Taoism.
posted by dorothyisunderwood at 1:43 AM on June 27 [2 favorites]
I will say that pre-Orthodox church, theological books seemed incomprehensible to me, like extremely bad translations where I didn't know the source language at all. Afterwards I could haltingly and then more fluently read them - including in other religions - because I got what they were talking about now in practice, not just theory.
Rachel Held Evan's Searching for Sundays is an extremely well written book on different approaches to Christian faith that includes many people searching from non-belief, dis-belief, failed belief etc.
I think Le Guin's Lao Tzu book is a very good way to look into Taoism.
posted by dorothyisunderwood at 1:43 AM on June 27 [2 favorites]
There was a fantastic site run by a group calling themselves the Ontario Consultants for Religious Tolerance. They started it sometime in the late 90s/early aughts, and it was a clearinghouse of information about practically every religion that exists, presenting information about religions and religious topics from all perspectives (believers and skeptics), and about different social topics from both the religious and non-religious views, for all religions (i.e., you didn't just get the evangelical Christian view of abortion rights, you also got the reform Jewish perspective, the Buddhist perspective, the Shinto, the neo-Pagan, etc.).
The main site seems to be down, but I had some luck poking through an earlier version at the Wayback Machine.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 4:36 AM on June 27
The main site seems to be down, but I had some luck poking through an earlier version at the Wayback Machine.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 4:36 AM on June 27
Best answer: Years ago, during a period of deep sorrow, I realised that the most joyful people I know (mostly elders) all had a faith. So, despite having been a pretty staunch atheist, I decided to read about different beliefs: Judaism, Islam, Buddhism… I avoided Christianity, since I had the impression that it was too conservative and, frankly, a bit ridiculous.
Then, in a moment of quiet, I realised that my grandfather, the most joyful and loving person I have ever known, whose values and morals I admired, was a devout Christian. So was my grandmother, and my aunt, and a beloved family friend. So. I decided to look there, too, at the faith of my elders, rather than dismiss it outright. I think there was a bit of exoticism in my previous approach — all those other religions, new to me, must be so much better than the spiritual tradition of my own culture!
Anyway. Five or six years later, I attend church regularly, I read the Bible often (not as often as I’d like, given how much I gain from it) and, while I still struggle to call myself a Christian, most people probably would describe me that way. I won’t draw a causal link there, but I am more at peace, grateful, and joyful than I have ever been.
Book and media recommendations? I second (third?) Mere Christianity, remembering that it was written in the 1940s so some of the language and context hasn’t aged super well. I listened to a lot of Richard Rohr’s podcasts in my first years of exploration, and highly recommend them; Another Name for Everything is my favourite, but I love all of the Center for Action and Contemplation stuff.
Good luck on your journey, friend.
posted by third word on a random page at 4:54 AM on June 27 [2 favorites]
Then, in a moment of quiet, I realised that my grandfather, the most joyful and loving person I have ever known, whose values and morals I admired, was a devout Christian. So was my grandmother, and my aunt, and a beloved family friend. So. I decided to look there, too, at the faith of my elders, rather than dismiss it outright. I think there was a bit of exoticism in my previous approach — all those other religions, new to me, must be so much better than the spiritual tradition of my own culture!
Anyway. Five or six years later, I attend church regularly, I read the Bible often (not as often as I’d like, given how much I gain from it) and, while I still struggle to call myself a Christian, most people probably would describe me that way. I won’t draw a causal link there, but I am more at peace, grateful, and joyful than I have ever been.
Book and media recommendations? I second (third?) Mere Christianity, remembering that it was written in the 1940s so some of the language and context hasn’t aged super well. I listened to a lot of Richard Rohr’s podcasts in my first years of exploration, and highly recommend them; Another Name for Everything is my favourite, but I love all of the Center for Action and Contemplation stuff.
Good luck on your journey, friend.
posted by third word on a random page at 4:54 AM on June 27 [2 favorites]
If you try a bunch of options but nothing seems to fit, I would recommend reading Sasha Sagan's book For Small Creatures Such As We.
posted by donut_princess at 6:54 AM on June 27
posted by donut_princess at 6:54 AM on June 27
I began down a path of meditation as a way to find relief from my anxiety. I stuck with it even though it seemed hard and felt like a chore, and I always felt like I wasn't doing it right. It didn't take long for something to click and I began noticing less anxiety in my body and began to meditate not just to tick the box for the day, but because I noticed myself feeling lighter and often really enjoying the sitting practice. I was not looking for a pathway to spirituality, just relief from the physical feeling of anxiety in my body.
My basis for guidance in meditation was the 10% Happier app / book. Dan Harris's story really resonated with me. I think I shared a lot of his aversions to spirituality when he described his own reality with the occasional panic attack and daily anxiety, and his own path to finding some relief. A lot of what I see that qualifies as a "religious experience" is beyond what can be described by language. He described his first pang of clarity while at a meditation retreat in his book and I had a similar moment on my front porch while meditating. It really hit me then, this is a "finding Jesus" kind of moment, this is what is so compelling for some folks.
Now, I find myself often listening to Dharma talks, often ones by my personal Buddhist hero, Joseph Goldstein. I do it because it makes me feel more deeply connected to other humans, and wanting to be kind and loving. I think I've landed on being good to each other as the meaning of life. It sounds like a simple thing but my path here was unexpected. I grew up being told there's no god and all through college / young adulthood I clung to that strongly. Buddhism has given me a pathway to open myself up and really love life and myself, and in turn, feel deeper love for others. Here I am describing myself as a Buddhist, I still don't know if I really go by that definition. It has been a deeply personal, beautiful, and unexpected path. I wasn't looking for a spiritual framework but now I have it and I love it. I access some element of it daily and turn to it when I am feeling strong feelings.
This is a big rambling thing but I also don't think I've put this many thoughts on this topic into words outside of my personal journal. Buddhism is a huge thing and there's a place for everyone and the wisdom is extremely practical and full of love. I hope there's something in here that's helpful.
posted by sewellcm at 6:57 AM on June 27 [1 favorite]
My basis for guidance in meditation was the 10% Happier app / book. Dan Harris's story really resonated with me. I think I shared a lot of his aversions to spirituality when he described his own reality with the occasional panic attack and daily anxiety, and his own path to finding some relief. A lot of what I see that qualifies as a "religious experience" is beyond what can be described by language. He described his first pang of clarity while at a meditation retreat in his book and I had a similar moment on my front porch while meditating. It really hit me then, this is a "finding Jesus" kind of moment, this is what is so compelling for some folks.
Now, I find myself often listening to Dharma talks, often ones by my personal Buddhist hero, Joseph Goldstein. I do it because it makes me feel more deeply connected to other humans, and wanting to be kind and loving. I think I've landed on being good to each other as the meaning of life. It sounds like a simple thing but my path here was unexpected. I grew up being told there's no god and all through college / young adulthood I clung to that strongly. Buddhism has given me a pathway to open myself up and really love life and myself, and in turn, feel deeper love for others. Here I am describing myself as a Buddhist, I still don't know if I really go by that definition. It has been a deeply personal, beautiful, and unexpected path. I wasn't looking for a spiritual framework but now I have it and I love it. I access some element of it daily and turn to it when I am feeling strong feelings.
This is a big rambling thing but I also don't think I've put this many thoughts on this topic into words outside of my personal journal. Buddhism is a huge thing and there's a place for everyone and the wisdom is extremely practical and full of love. I hope there's something in here that's helpful.
posted by sewellcm at 6:57 AM on June 27 [1 favorite]
So, there is a big difference between joining a religion and adopting religious/spiritual practices. It is possible to do the latter collectively without necessarily doing the former.
For example, if you live near a buddhist temple or ashram, there are probably open group meditation sessions - you can find community there, but nobody is going to ask you make any oaths or dogmatic commitments.
Also:
And I also feel like picking and choosing the parts I like sort of negates the point of signing up (I heard an NPR story once where a person said that "if you follow a religion and remove all the parts you disagree with, you're really just worshipping yourself")
While sure, there are certainly hypocrites within religious communities, when studied historically all religions are somewhat flexible systems of ethics, practices, beliefs, etc. that do change - this is less present in contemporary Christianity (where the new branches these days seem to be more about greed than a new interpretation of the Bible) compared to Islam and Judaism, but the reason there are different sects/branches of all three religions is because it is possible to meaningful engage with the core texts and come away with different understandings.
So take example of sabbath/shabbos - some interpretations of religion have strict rules around what one can or cannot do on that day - other interpretations say that the core principle of the day is to give your mind a break from the stresses of daily life so that you can get into a mental zone that places you closer to God. Within that latter interpretation, if cooking an elaborate dinner with your family is something that provides you joy and a sense of flow, then it's fine (whereas other interpretations would ban it for being work).
Anyway, in short, one might judge me as being someone who has picked and chosen from the religious soup I grew up in (Christian, Jewish, and Buddhist -my dad in his 20s more or less lived in an ashram for a few years and taught me to meditate as a little kid). But I see it less as picking and choosing and more that I do see wisdom in many of the practices that have been handed down over the generations, but I have little interest in any dogmas - rather, I focus on what is the core value tied up in this rule or set of rules. I do think a degree of rules/structure can be helpful in producing a spiritual state, but I also don't think there is a one-size-fits-all set of rules for everyone.
posted by coffeecat at 7:06 AM on June 27 [1 favorite]
For example, if you live near a buddhist temple or ashram, there are probably open group meditation sessions - you can find community there, but nobody is going to ask you make any oaths or dogmatic commitments.
Also:
And I also feel like picking and choosing the parts I like sort of negates the point of signing up (I heard an NPR story once where a person said that "if you follow a religion and remove all the parts you disagree with, you're really just worshipping yourself")
While sure, there are certainly hypocrites within religious communities, when studied historically all religions are somewhat flexible systems of ethics, practices, beliefs, etc. that do change - this is less present in contemporary Christianity (where the new branches these days seem to be more about greed than a new interpretation of the Bible) compared to Islam and Judaism, but the reason there are different sects/branches of all three religions is because it is possible to meaningful engage with the core texts and come away with different understandings.
So take example of sabbath/shabbos - some interpretations of religion have strict rules around what one can or cannot do on that day - other interpretations say that the core principle of the day is to give your mind a break from the stresses of daily life so that you can get into a mental zone that places you closer to God. Within that latter interpretation, if cooking an elaborate dinner with your family is something that provides you joy and a sense of flow, then it's fine (whereas other interpretations would ban it for being work).
Anyway, in short, one might judge me as being someone who has picked and chosen from the religious soup I grew up in (Christian, Jewish, and Buddhist -my dad in his 20s more or less lived in an ashram for a few years and taught me to meditate as a little kid). But I see it less as picking and choosing and more that I do see wisdom in many of the practices that have been handed down over the generations, but I have little interest in any dogmas - rather, I focus on what is the core value tied up in this rule or set of rules. I do think a degree of rules/structure can be helpful in producing a spiritual state, but I also don't think there is a one-size-fits-all set of rules for everyone.
posted by coffeecat at 7:06 AM on June 27 [1 favorite]
I think you might like Why Does the World Exist? by Jim Holt. (NYT review). It's a series of interviews with philosophers and cosmologists taking on this question. In particular, I liked hearing from brilliant physicists who were also devout Christians, and how those two things were not in conflict for them. And from well-read religious philosophers who fully believe in science, and (yet?) still believe in their religious practice. And also from the people who said "How are you so sure the world exists?"
One idea that stuck with me, from the smart and devout people, that appeals to my agnostic mind (paraphrasing): "This stuff may or may not be true. But behaving as if it is true-- that is, doing the religious practice-- improves my life. So that's what I'll do."
posted by hovey at 7:11 AM on June 27 [1 favorite]
One idea that stuck with me, from the smart and devout people, that appeals to my agnostic mind (paraphrasing): "This stuff may or may not be true. But behaving as if it is true-- that is, doing the religious practice-- improves my life. So that's what I'll do."
posted by hovey at 7:11 AM on June 27 [1 favorite]
If exploring Judaism interests you, A Book of Life: Embracing Judaism as a Spiritual Practice, by Rabbi Michael Strassfeld, may be a good place to get an overview; there are essentially infinite opinions on what Judaism is and has been, but one thing I want to point to is that agnosticism and atheism are both part of the tradition, and "faith" is not the framing for us that it is for many culturally-Christian folks. (Enter the Jew to my left who wants to argue about this.)
Danya Ruttenberg's Surprised by God: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love Religion is a memoir of someone finding their way from atheism to religious practice, which you may find helpful or illuminating.
posted by pollytropos at 8:23 AM on June 27 [3 favorites]
Danya Ruttenberg's Surprised by God: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love Religion is a memoir of someone finding their way from atheism to religious practice, which you may find helpful or illuminating.
posted by pollytropos at 8:23 AM on June 27 [3 favorites]
I was agnostic for years because I thought it was the only intellectually defensible position. But I started longing for religion again and returned to Catholicism - a lot of that was because it was the church of my childhood and my ancestors. I don't agree with everything the church teaches, but it feels like home to me.
One thing that was helpful to me was a conversation I had with a priest. I asked him if it was OK for me to return even though I wasn't really sure what I believed. He said, "You don't have to understand everything." For me, it was helpful to frame it as "I don't understand" rather than "I don't believe." I see God as much more than our minds can ever comprehend. Religion for me is more of an attempt to move towards God - not a collection of "right" answers.
BTW, I took meditation classes at a Buddhist temple, and there was one class where we were asked to bow before a statue of the Buddha, and I couldn't do it. So it's not necessarily true that Buddhists won't ask you to do anything that might conflict with your beliefs. (Though I should state my refusal was not treated as a big deal.) And I went to a Quaker church once and was dismayed by all the Catholic bashing. So I think a lot will depend on what the communities of any individual religion near you are like. (My Quaker friend tells me that particular congregation is not like any other Quakers she's known - so please don't take that as a reflection on Quakers in general.)
posted by FencingGal at 9:01 AM on June 27
One thing that was helpful to me was a conversation I had with a priest. I asked him if it was OK for me to return even though I wasn't really sure what I believed. He said, "You don't have to understand everything." For me, it was helpful to frame it as "I don't understand" rather than "I don't believe." I see God as much more than our minds can ever comprehend. Religion for me is more of an attempt to move towards God - not a collection of "right" answers.
BTW, I took meditation classes at a Buddhist temple, and there was one class where we were asked to bow before a statue of the Buddha, and I couldn't do it. So it's not necessarily true that Buddhists won't ask you to do anything that might conflict with your beliefs. (Though I should state my refusal was not treated as a big deal.) And I went to a Quaker church once and was dismayed by all the Catholic bashing. So I think a lot will depend on what the communities of any individual religion near you are like. (My Quaker friend tells me that particular congregation is not like any other Quakers she's known - so please don't take that as a reflection on Quakers in general.)
posted by FencingGal at 9:01 AM on June 27
Here is another Catholic perspective.
You are welcome to suggest particular faiths or interpretations thereof, but also general accounts of "how to find one's spiritual way" are helpful.
This is going to be somewhat tricky since everyone's spiritual path is going to be a bit different. My own pathway began with a study of history, and the rectifying of some widely-held (but historically incorrect) commonplaces. When I began to look closer, pieces of it all began to fit together. Whenever I encountered an intellectual obstacle, I was able to go a little further and find a solution. But if you were to ask 20 other people the same question, you'd probably get 21 different answers. Since you asked, I'll suggest prayer. Speak and listen in the best ways that you can - it's as simple as that. For this, I very much like Brother David Steindl-Rast's Gratefulness: the Heart of Prayer.
forthright mentioned some good books above - definitely co-signing Victor Frankl. You might also look at the conversion story par excellence: The Confessions of St. Augustine. This is a decent translation which I've just finished.
An important bit to remember - and I'm speaking as a lay adult catechist and candidate for Orders - is that while faith is not solely an intellectual exercise, reading and study can help avoid things that are repugnant to reason. Faith is a gift, and the desire to have it is already a sign of God's grace at work!
posted by jquinby at 9:02 AM on June 27 [1 favorite]
You are welcome to suggest particular faiths or interpretations thereof, but also general accounts of "how to find one's spiritual way" are helpful.
This is going to be somewhat tricky since everyone's spiritual path is going to be a bit different. My own pathway began with a study of history, and the rectifying of some widely-held (but historically incorrect) commonplaces. When I began to look closer, pieces of it all began to fit together. Whenever I encountered an intellectual obstacle, I was able to go a little further and find a solution. But if you were to ask 20 other people the same question, you'd probably get 21 different answers. Since you asked, I'll suggest prayer. Speak and listen in the best ways that you can - it's as simple as that. For this, I very much like Brother David Steindl-Rast's Gratefulness: the Heart of Prayer.
forthright mentioned some good books above - definitely co-signing Victor Frankl. You might also look at the conversion story par excellence: The Confessions of St. Augustine. This is a decent translation which I've just finished.
An important bit to remember - and I'm speaking as a lay adult catechist and candidate for Orders - is that while faith is not solely an intellectual exercise, reading and study can help avoid things that are repugnant to reason. Faith is a gift, and the desire to have it is already a sign of God's grace at work!
posted by jquinby at 9:02 AM on June 27 [1 favorite]
Oh - and Urban Dharma is a good podcast by a Buddhist monk.
posted by FencingGal at 9:03 AM on June 27
posted by FencingGal at 9:03 AM on June 27
Nth-ing UU. My positive impression comes mainly from my grandmother, a hard-nosed nurse practitioner who was very explicit about not believing in an afterlife, but spent her last years in a UU retirement community and attended services regularly. I’m far from religious or mystical myself, apart from the obvious basic mystery of existence. But I would definitely be interested in connecting with a UU community if I hadn’t moved to a very Catholic country where UU services are infrequent and impractical for me to attend.
posted by mubba at 9:06 AM on June 27
posted by mubba at 9:06 AM on June 27
Whichever faith you choose to pursue, be mindful to put the horse before the cart. As applied here, this concerns the relation between practice and belief; the way that seems to work, if or when you reach the point of committing to something, is you practice the religion first, and then the believing follows. You do not say the prayers or read the texts or perform the rituals because you believe. Just quite the opposite: you only come to believe after you've spent enough time saying the prayers or reading the texts or performing the rituals.
Is this to give up your own capacity for understanding, judgment, etc.? Not exactly, but it's also not not that. Is it hard to do, especially if you have a history of being very intelligent and intellectual and relying on your own capacity for analysis and discernment? Yes, of course. Is it putting yourself in a very vulnerable position, opening yourself up to influences that you may not yet even conceive of, let alone understand? Absolutely it is.
If or when you get to this inflection point, there is no way to avoid some amount of these risks. But the risk, IME, is also a crucial part of the experience. I suppose that's one reason why they call it "faith."
posted by obliterati at 11:38 AM on June 27 [2 favorites]
Is this to give up your own capacity for understanding, judgment, etc.? Not exactly, but it's also not not that. Is it hard to do, especially if you have a history of being very intelligent and intellectual and relying on your own capacity for analysis and discernment? Yes, of course. Is it putting yourself in a very vulnerable position, opening yourself up to influences that you may not yet even conceive of, let alone understand? Absolutely it is.
If or when you get to this inflection point, there is no way to avoid some amount of these risks. But the risk, IME, is also a crucial part of the experience. I suppose that's one reason why they call it "faith."
posted by obliterati at 11:38 AM on June 27 [2 favorites]
It sounds like you have a "way seeking" mind that brings many people to Buddhism. To some Buddhism is a religion, to others it is a philosophy but I would agree with obliterati directly above that first and foremost it is a practice. IMO it is a practice that guides you to your beliefs and faith, whatever it may end up being.
posted by turtlefu at 12:03 PM on June 27
posted by turtlefu at 12:03 PM on June 27
I came here to say try Unitarian Universalism, as some others have. I am very happy there.
posted by molasses at 3:26 PM on June 27
posted by molasses at 3:26 PM on June 27
(I heard an NPR story once where a person said that "if you follow a religion and remove all the parts you disagree with, you're really just worshipping yourself").
Christianity has six major branches and under those 45,000 different denominations. Muslims only have 6 or 7 branches and not so many denominations. Buddhism, the largest religion1 that actually had people writing down what was said right there and then still has 3 major branches and many many sects.
In short, picking and choosing how to interpret the earthbound representation of a religion has a long tradition behind it. I believe we are all searching for the same thing but on many different paths and I think that an important part of faith is to follow your spiritual instincts. You were given them for a reason.
1Buddhism is separately both a philosophy and a religion. Buddha did not claim any divine insight, his basic message was “I thought about things and I figured this out. Give it a try.” Over the years a religion started, and a ton of mythology was introduced around him, but we still have his original words so we know that it wasn’t him who started it.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 4:36 PM on June 27 [2 favorites]
Christianity has six major branches and under those 45,000 different denominations. Muslims only have 6 or 7 branches and not so many denominations. Buddhism, the largest religion1 that actually had people writing down what was said right there and then still has 3 major branches and many many sects.
In short, picking and choosing how to interpret the earthbound representation of a religion has a long tradition behind it. I believe we are all searching for the same thing but on many different paths and I think that an important part of faith is to follow your spiritual instincts. You were given them for a reason.
1Buddhism is separately both a philosophy and a religion. Buddha did not claim any divine insight, his basic message was “I thought about things and I figured this out. Give it a try.” Over the years a religion started, and a ton of mythology was introduced around him, but we still have his original words so we know that it wasn’t him who started it.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 4:36 PM on June 27 [2 favorites]
nononsensespirituality is a TikTok creator who discusses how to have a spiritual practice in the absence of faith in any gods. She also has a book out, which I haven't read yet called "No Nonsense Spirituality" by Brittney L. Hartley.
posted by Serene Empress Dork at 6:20 PM on June 27
posted by Serene Empress Dork at 6:20 PM on June 27
Nthing UU. I’m a UU atheist with Buddhist leanings. My wife is a UU Christian-ish. It’s really good to have a group of folks who just want to be kind and do good.
posted by escher at 9:42 PM on June 27 [2 favorites]
posted by escher at 9:42 PM on June 27 [2 favorites]
I also went back and chose the religion I was culturally raised with, after atheism and then quite a deep interest in Buddhism. I joined a more ritual flavour and really get a lot out of it. That’s not to say you shouldn’t perhaps pursue conversion to a new-to-you religion if that’s what calls to your soul — I liked what dorothy upthread said about feeling home.
posted by lokta at 3:57 AM on June 28
posted by lokta at 3:57 AM on June 28
Just a small followup with a concrete example up of picking and choosing, the SBC is rapidly on the way to splitting into two sects due to different interpretations.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 9:09 AM on June 28
At the heart of the issue are competing interpretations of the Bible on whether women are allowed to preside over men or whether the two sexes stand on equal footing in the church—an issue that has already prompted the convention to oust multiple churches that allow women in pastoral positions.Seriously, even if you end up focused on a particular denomination, everyone makes choices about what parts of a religion they believe in.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 9:09 AM on June 28
I heard an NPR story once where a person said that "if you follow a religion and remove all the parts you disagree with, you're really just worshipping yourself"
I'd argue that exact opposite: if you blindly follow a religion, you're not directly worshipping a higher being - you're worshipping an unspecified set of extremely fallible members of that religion who wrote the book, translated the book, explained the book, etc etc.
There are multiple religious traditions that advocate building your own personal relationship with the higher power, and disintermediating it from religious authorities. For example, it's my understanding that the people who originally translated the Bible from Latin into English were specifically interested in helping people to understand the Bible for themselves rather relying on the interpretations of priests.
Indeed I personally think it's wildly unethical to follow some specific interpretation of a religion that causes harm to other people, and then disclaim your own responsibility because God told you. For example, if you believe that an omniscient being is telling you that it's necessary to go up a mountain and kill your child, I think there's an ethical obligation to consider this situation extremely critically.
In the absence of an actual hotline to an omniscient being, you have a responsibility to make your own choices for yourself based on careful consideration, even if that choice is "I decide to trust this religious authority". And it's my understanding that there are multiple religious communities that would agree with that.
posted by quacks like a duck at 1:57 AM on June 30
I'd argue that exact opposite: if you blindly follow a religion, you're not directly worshipping a higher being - you're worshipping an unspecified set of extremely fallible members of that religion who wrote the book, translated the book, explained the book, etc etc.
There are multiple religious traditions that advocate building your own personal relationship with the higher power, and disintermediating it from religious authorities. For example, it's my understanding that the people who originally translated the Bible from Latin into English were specifically interested in helping people to understand the Bible for themselves rather relying on the interpretations of priests.
Indeed I personally think it's wildly unethical to follow some specific interpretation of a religion that causes harm to other people, and then disclaim your own responsibility because God told you. For example, if you believe that an omniscient being is telling you that it's necessary to go up a mountain and kill your child, I think there's an ethical obligation to consider this situation extremely critically.
In the absence of an actual hotline to an omniscient being, you have a responsibility to make your own choices for yourself based on careful consideration, even if that choice is "I decide to trust this religious authority". And it's my understanding that there are multiple religious communities that would agree with that.
posted by quacks like a duck at 1:57 AM on June 30
Response by poster: Thank you all for your answers—I could have probably marked them all as best answers.
posted by miltthetank at 6:41 PM on July 1
posted by miltthetank at 6:41 PM on July 1
You are not logged in, either login or create an account to post comments
I have a Christian perspective! So: take this if it works for you, leave it if it doesn't.
Most any house of worship you walk into will have folks that you can talk about faith from an "I don't know" perspective, or a "I'm not ready to believe this" perspective.
This right here, though - that you feel that many of these claims are unknowable - gives you a firmer foot to stand on. This idea (that the essential truth is unknowable) is called "mysticism" in the Christian tradition. Having that word and idea might help you communicate better about the perspective you've already formed.
The easiest place to find mystic perspectives in most communities is Orthodox churches. They may work for you, but they might also feel culturally unfamiliar. And that's fine: go someplace else if they don't work for you!
The seeking is the important thing. There's a good quote from Jesus on that topic: Even if you don't find what you are looking for in a Christian church, I know that you will find what you are looking for. Good luck!
posted by billjings at 4:19 PM on June 26 [5 favorites]