Any experience with eInk devices outside of e-readers?
May 22, 2024 11:02 AM Subscribe
As someone who's a chronic (almost daily) migraine sufferer and realizing that laptop screens are almost certainly a contributing factor, I've been looking into alternative eInk devices as a possible replacement for various tasks. Curious if the hive mind has any experience with these devices and wanted to weigh in?
I've had kindles and other e-readers for years, and they're great -- but they're very single purpose. I've recently begun looking into something like the reMarkable2 in order to offload some laptop work to other potentially more migraine-friendly screens. And then I ended up even further down the eInk rabbit hole, discovering Android tablets like the various Boox models and even a couple of eInk monitors.
Everything's pricey as heck, but if there's a chance it'll help allow me to be more productive when otherwise my laptop is off limits, I'm willing to invest. Right now I'm leaning towards the Boox Tab Ultra C which could even act as a laptop replacement in a pinch, but its a lot of money for something that (in Canada at least) is basically un-returnable. I don't actually think I need or want the color eink features, but I do really want its folio case with trackpad, which isn't available with other models. My primary use cases are mostly browser based - browsing, miro, google workspace apps, email, and slack. I'm a code geek at heart and if i can cobble together a half-decent python development environment, I'll be amazingly happy! I've also just realized that Libby should work on Android (it doesn't on Kindle devices in Canada because reasons) so thats awesome - i was debating a new e-reader for this use case alone!
The eInk monitors (Dasung, Boox) also look interesting, but I haven't read enough about them yet to form much of an opinion.
While I'm deep in my research stage, I thought i'd also check here - do any mefites have experience with these types of devices? reMarkables, Boox, Dasung, or any of the others in the segment are all fair game at this point. What are your thoughts? Bonus points if you're a migraine sufferer and have experience, but I do realize thats a pretty niche segment!
thanks all!
I've had kindles and other e-readers for years, and they're great -- but they're very single purpose. I've recently begun looking into something like the reMarkable2 in order to offload some laptop work to other potentially more migraine-friendly screens. And then I ended up even further down the eInk rabbit hole, discovering Android tablets like the various Boox models and even a couple of eInk monitors.
Everything's pricey as heck, but if there's a chance it'll help allow me to be more productive when otherwise my laptop is off limits, I'm willing to invest. Right now I'm leaning towards the Boox Tab Ultra C which could even act as a laptop replacement in a pinch, but its a lot of money for something that (in Canada at least) is basically un-returnable. I don't actually think I need or want the color eink features, but I do really want its folio case with trackpad, which isn't available with other models. My primary use cases are mostly browser based - browsing, miro, google workspace apps, email, and slack. I'm a code geek at heart and if i can cobble together a half-decent python development environment, I'll be amazingly happy! I've also just realized that Libby should work on Android (it doesn't on Kindle devices in Canada because reasons) so thats awesome - i was debating a new e-reader for this use case alone!
The eInk monitors (Dasung, Boox) also look interesting, but I haven't read enough about them yet to form much of an opinion.
While I'm deep in my research stage, I thought i'd also check here - do any mefites have experience with these types of devices? reMarkables, Boox, Dasung, or any of the others in the segment are all fair game at this point. What are your thoughts? Bonus points if you're a migraine sufferer and have experience, but I do realize thats a pretty niche segment!
thanks all!
I looked into some of these devices after my wife got a Scribe, but it seems like any interface that requires scrolling or movement is broken and typing refreshes too slowly to be effective, so most use cases beyond e-reader are either a janky Android app that sort of works, or completely borked. This is based on recent reviews, not actual experience, so ymmv.
posted by rikschell at 11:39 AM on May 22
posted by rikschell at 11:39 AM on May 22
Best answer: I got a Supernote earlier this year, and I use it every day and absolutely love it! It's probably the most similar to a Remarkable, but does have a somewhat different feature set. That said, if you're hoping to use apps and replace laptop workflows, it's probably not a great candidate. I use it primarily as a replacement for paper notebooks, with some amount of PDF annotation, and it's really well-suited for that. It does allow side-loading Android apps, but that's not something I've explored with it. My general impression is that it technically works, but isn't a great experience. I think the Boox devices are more suitable there (somewhat higher specs and support for relatively fast-refresh screen modes) but apps aren't optimized for eInk, and it can make it a pretty poor experience since the screen technology is so different.
For me, the things that led me to Supernote vs. the competitors:
posted by duien at 11:40 AM on May 22 [3 favorites]
For me, the things that led me to Supernote vs. the competitors:
- Long-term device support: the company releases new models quite infrequently, is still supporting their oldest devices, and has designed the newest ones with replaceable batteries. Boox, on the other hand, seems to release new devices about every 6 months and doesn't seem much interested in supporting older ones. Remarkable is better about device lifetimes, but has taken some previously free core features and put them behind a subscription, which rubs me the wrong way.
- Lightweight smart note-taking features: you can easily add links between notes, create hand-written tables of contents, and add keywords for searching. For me, I like that these features are still handwriting-centric, since it keeps it pretty distraction-free, while allowing some "smarter than paper" features. The Remarkable has a similar distraction-free notes focus, but doesn't have the nice features on top that make it better than paper. The Boox is a full Android tablet that happens to have a note-taking app, so (for my usage patterns) I might as well use my iPad at that point.
- Development in the open: The company has a public roadmap and is very engaged with people in the official sub-reddit. They seem to really listen to their community, and feed that back into their development plans. It's a small company, so things do take a while, but they seem to be trying their best.
posted by duien at 11:40 AM on May 22 [3 favorites]
Best answer: I have a Boox Nova 2 which I use exclusively for writing with a bluetooth keyboard. It works fine for that and I'm sure a more modern Boox device would be even faster.
I had also considered a ReMarkable tablet but I honestly think the company is simply too close minded. I talked with them when the 1 came out and then the 2 about making them have bluetooth so I could connect a keyboard and they basically told me it "would never happen" and that even asking the question "means you don't really understand the purpose of our devices". Well, lo-and-behold they've now made a keyboard for the 2, but theirs is the only one that'll work with it and I'll be damned if I tie myself to a keyboard I can't choose. I'd wager the 3 will have bluetooth and that if it doesn't the company will go bust before putting out the 4.
Your best bet with investigating the Boox or any other device is to find out specifically which apps you intend to use and then finding a way to test how they perform — for instance, asking Youtube reviewers about them specifically.
And yes, Libby works with the Boox.
posted by dobbs at 11:43 AM on May 22 [1 favorite]
I had also considered a ReMarkable tablet but I honestly think the company is simply too close minded. I talked with them when the 1 came out and then the 2 about making them have bluetooth so I could connect a keyboard and they basically told me it "would never happen" and that even asking the question "means you don't really understand the purpose of our devices". Well, lo-and-behold they've now made a keyboard for the 2, but theirs is the only one that'll work with it and I'll be damned if I tie myself to a keyboard I can't choose. I'd wager the 3 will have bluetooth and that if it doesn't the company will go bust before putting out the 4.
Your best bet with investigating the Boox or any other device is to find out specifically which apps you intend to use and then finding a way to test how they perform — for instance, asking Youtube reviewers about them specifically.
And yes, Libby works with the Boox.
posted by dobbs at 11:43 AM on May 22 [1 favorite]
I can cause ocular migraines if my screens are too bright -- which is above 20% -- and brighter than ambient brings it on. What's your brightness and contrast level like?
posted by k3ninho at 12:08 PM on May 22 [1 favorite]
posted by k3ninho at 12:08 PM on May 22 [1 favorite]
Best answer: I’ve used Boox, remarkable and Supernote devices. Based on your use case you are looking at a Boox. The person who said they don’t work for typing and browsing was wrong (as you probably know from watching reviews but I just wanted to affirm it).
Personally I’m not a huge fan of the current color screens. The color is pastel/washed out and the color layer makes the screen dark, so you always have to have the light on for good visibility. That said, I use my devices in a very portable “outside in a hammock” way so my emphasis is on battery life; if you’re using your device in a work/laptop way this may not be an issue since you’re more likely to be near a power source. I am surprised that the Boox Tab Ultra black and white doesn’t fit with the trackpad you like, though.
Remarkables and Supernotes are both very good but in more locked down ways (no apps, browsing, etc). Supernote excels in its note-taking software and remarkable has the nicest operating system, cloud and phone apps, and general design. Boox is by far the most “Swiss Army Knife” of the group but has a sort of clunky user interface (if you’re a tech person it shouldn’t be an issue, though).
Reddit is where people talk about eink (r/eink, r/ereader, r/supernote and r/adoptsupernote, r/remarkabletablet and r/adoptremarkable, and there’s definitely a Boox one too but I forgot its name).
Oh, and if you just want an ereader with Libby on it I’m pretty sure Kobo works for that.
Good luck, and I hope you find a device that helps with your migraines!
posted by hungrytiger at 1:41 PM on May 22 [3 favorites]
Personally I’m not a huge fan of the current color screens. The color is pastel/washed out and the color layer makes the screen dark, so you always have to have the light on for good visibility. That said, I use my devices in a very portable “outside in a hammock” way so my emphasis is on battery life; if you’re using your device in a work/laptop way this may not be an issue since you’re more likely to be near a power source. I am surprised that the Boox Tab Ultra black and white doesn’t fit with the trackpad you like, though.
Remarkables and Supernotes are both very good but in more locked down ways (no apps, browsing, etc). Supernote excels in its note-taking software and remarkable has the nicest operating system, cloud and phone apps, and general design. Boox is by far the most “Swiss Army Knife” of the group but has a sort of clunky user interface (if you’re a tech person it shouldn’t be an issue, though).
Reddit is where people talk about eink (r/eink, r/ereader, r/supernote and r/adoptsupernote, r/remarkabletablet and r/adoptremarkable, and there’s definitely a Boox one too but I forgot its name).
Oh, and if you just want an ereader with Libby on it I’m pretty sure Kobo works for that.
Good luck, and I hope you find a device that helps with your migraines!
posted by hungrytiger at 1:41 PM on May 22 [3 favorites]
You might also check out the mobileread forums.
its a lot of money for something that (in Canada at least) is basically un-returnable
You could probably sell on a secondhand marketplace if worst comes to worst.
One thing I've heard about Boox devices is that they do a lot of phoning home; I think I've seen some discussion about blocking that, but I don't remember how doable that was supposed to be.
posted by trig at 3:09 PM on May 22
its a lot of money for something that (in Canada at least) is basically un-returnable
You could probably sell on a secondhand marketplace if worst comes to worst.
One thing I've heard about Boox devices is that they do a lot of phoning home; I think I've seen some discussion about blocking that, but I don't remember how doable that was supposed to be.
posted by trig at 3:09 PM on May 22
No experience, but also following for info... you've named basically all the devices I'd like to get my hands on.
posted by stormyteal at 3:29 PM on May 22
posted by stormyteal at 3:29 PM on May 22
Boox sells a black-and-white Tab Ultra but I'm unable to determine if the trackpad case is compatible with it; the tablet says it's compatible with the Ultra C but why would the interfaces be different?
posted by TimHare at 7:06 AM on May 23
posted by TimHare at 7:06 AM on May 23
I don't know if it's the low refresh rate on the display or the hardware inside, but my Boox Note Air 2 feels sluggish with interactive content. I'd be hesitant to move work to it, but I like it for notes and reading. I would also be a little paranoid that the phone home stuff doesn't send work stuff to the Onyx cloud: they've got a lot of features I've tried to disable, but it's unclear if stuff like handwriting recognition is 100% on device or not.
I do like how "open" the device is compared to a Kindle or reMarkable, but the whole e-ink space seems to be picking the combination of anti-features you can live with.
posted by Anonymous Function at 12:37 PM on May 23 [1 favorite]
I do like how "open" the device is compared to a Kindle or reMarkable, but the whole e-ink space seems to be picking the combination of anti-features you can live with.
posted by Anonymous Function at 12:37 PM on May 23 [1 favorite]
I really like the remarkable 2 but just for that one use case of pdf reading and annotation. I appreciate how it can password lock documents.
Oh, I like sketching on it too, even though it’s not made for that necessarily.
posted by umbú at 1:20 PM on May 23
Oh, I like sketching on it too, even though it’s not made for that necessarily.
posted by umbú at 1:20 PM on May 23
I know nothing about the device, but just happened to come across Daylight Computer today and wanted to drop it into the thread; it looks like it's another option for a more full-featured laptop-replacement e-ink device, but potentially without some of the issues that come with Boox. But also without .... actually having a shipping device. They do claim that some of the earlier orders will be shipping in July, so there may be some concrete info before too much longer.
posted by duien at 4:02 PM on May 23
posted by duien at 4:02 PM on May 23
As far as I can tell it looks like the Daylight uses an RLCD display, not e-ink, so that might be another search direction for useful devices.
(Btw looks like the Daylight is an Android tablet, despite the "Computer" branding, so about as much of a laptop replacement as any android tablet. Then again you can run linux emulators and VMs on android, so...)
posted by trig at 11:20 PM on May 23
(Btw looks like the Daylight is an Android tablet, despite the "Computer" branding, so about as much of a laptop replacement as any android tablet. Then again you can run linux emulators and VMs on android, so...)
posted by trig at 11:20 PM on May 23
Best answer: I have a Dasung Paperlike 253 monitor. I somewhat regret buying it, though that might change if I start using it more. It’s well-suited for text-based activities such as coding or word processing. It’s important to understand the following drawbacks:
Lag: the screen doesn’t respond as quickly as a normal monitor. You get used to this, but it’s a limitation.
Ghosting: the screen builds up shadows where pixels were recently activated. There’s a button to refresh everything, but you can’t use it constantly. It’s kind of like erased pencil marks. Video and busy web pages aren’t great for this medium for this reason, though cartoons actually do okay. It’s not the best idea to watch lots of video, anyway, due to the finite lifespan of e-ink pixels (they can only be refreshed so many times).
Setup: e-ink works best for dark text and images on a white background. That’s probably not how your computer is set up. I got around this by creating a separate windows user just for the monitor.
If you’re able to set up your equipment and light it in a particular fussy way, the Sunvision RLCD monitor could be an option. It’s more like a normal monitor without backlight. There’s a tablet with the same technology from a small company of uncertain trustworthiness called Eyemoo.
I agree that you want to read Reddit for this. I also recommend the YouTube channel My Deep Guide. It is in fact deep!
posted by Hex Wrench at 10:33 AM on May 24
Lag: the screen doesn’t respond as quickly as a normal monitor. You get used to this, but it’s a limitation.
Ghosting: the screen builds up shadows where pixels were recently activated. There’s a button to refresh everything, but you can’t use it constantly. It’s kind of like erased pencil marks. Video and busy web pages aren’t great for this medium for this reason, though cartoons actually do okay. It’s not the best idea to watch lots of video, anyway, due to the finite lifespan of e-ink pixels (they can only be refreshed so many times).
Setup: e-ink works best for dark text and images on a white background. That’s probably not how your computer is set up. I got around this by creating a separate windows user just for the monitor.
If you’re able to set up your equipment and light it in a particular fussy way, the Sunvision RLCD monitor could be an option. It’s more like a normal monitor without backlight. There’s a tablet with the same technology from a small company of uncertain trustworthiness called Eyemoo.
I agree that you want to read Reddit for this. I also recommend the YouTube channel My Deep Guide. It is in fact deep!
posted by Hex Wrench at 10:33 AM on May 24
Response by poster: Thanks all - a bunch of best answers marked, but really you all are awesome. I ordered my Boox Tab Ultra C and it should be here shortly. I'm hopeful! (I also discovered it available on the Best Buy marketplace, which seemed slightly less sketchy than some of the other "official distributor" websites I initially tried!)
posted by cgg at 2:35 PM on May 24
posted by cgg at 2:35 PM on May 24
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There are a lot of very, very detailed walk-throughs and comparisons on YouTube. Kit Betts-Masters has a lot of deep dives as well as shorter videos, too.
posted by synecdoche at 11:32 AM on May 22 [1 favorite]