EU Permanent Residency and historic travel within the Schengen area
May 20, 2024 6:04 AM Subscribe
YANML. A friend will soon be applying for EU Permanent residency. They have maintained official residency in the EU country where they have lived and worked continuously for five years, but there are a couple of details we want to understand a bit better.
During their residency period, they did not spend more than six continuous months out of country. The thing is, they *did* do quite a bit of travel, either by train, bus or airplaine, *within* the Schengen area during this time, likely enough to put them over the 10 month cumulative limit for continuity of residency.
Does intra-schengen travel need to be declared as part of the EU PR application?
We are also looking at total number of months working/paying taxes, though these details ought to work themselves out.
Any input on this whole process would be great, even beyond the intra-Schengen travel question. I can provide more details in case they're important -- I'll keep an eye on the thread.
During their residency period, they did not spend more than six continuous months out of country. The thing is, they *did* do quite a bit of travel, either by train, bus or airplaine, *within* the Schengen area during this time, likely enough to put them over the 10 month cumulative limit for continuity of residency.
Does intra-schengen travel need to be declared as part of the EU PR application?
We are also looking at total number of months working/paying taxes, though these details ought to work themselves out.
Any input on this whole process would be great, even beyond the intra-Schengen travel question. I can provide more details in case they're important -- I'll keep an eye on the thread.
There appears to be another scheme, wherein "EU Permanent Residency" can be obtained after five years.
This scheme is the same scheme that whitewall is referring to in their second sentence, i.e. if you already have permanent residency in one EU state, you can move to another EU state and gain permanent residency there (and lose permanent residency in your first EU state) after five years' residence. For example:
- Friend lives in France for 5 years and gains permanent residency in France.
- Friend moves to Germany and gains a residence permit in Germany allowing them to work, study or undergo training there.
- After 5 years' residency in Germany, Friend is then able to gain a German permanent residence permit. In this case their French permanent residence permit expires.
There is no separate "EU permanent residency" that is independent of permanent residency in specific member states. What the scheme does is permit third-country nationals who are permanent residents of one EU state to take advantage of EU freedom of movement and eventually gain permanent residency in another EU state, which otherwise is a freedom limited to EU citizens.
posted by andrewesque at 7:43 AM on May 20 [1 favorite]
This scheme is the same scheme that whitewall is referring to in their second sentence, i.e. if you already have permanent residency in one EU state, you can move to another EU state and gain permanent residency there (and lose permanent residency in your first EU state) after five years' residence. For example:
- Friend lives in France for 5 years and gains permanent residency in France.
- Friend moves to Germany and gains a residence permit in Germany allowing them to work, study or undergo training there.
- After 5 years' residency in Germany, Friend is then able to gain a German permanent residence permit. In this case their French permanent residence permit expires.
There is no separate "EU permanent residency" that is independent of permanent residency in specific member states. What the scheme does is permit third-country nationals who are permanent residents of one EU state to take advantage of EU freedom of movement and eventually gain permanent residency in another EU state, which otherwise is a freedom limited to EU citizens.
posted by andrewesque at 7:43 AM on May 20 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: This would mean that friend, with German PR, would already be eligible to work in any EU member state without need for a work permit?
If I understand you correctly, my friend's likely best path would be to apply for German PR (which they are currently eligible for), which, under EU law, would mean that there is no problem if they and I (an EU citizen) decide to move to NL, for example, for work -- ie, the German PR that they hold would easily transfer to NL residency via some bureaucratic process.
Friend currently holds an EU Blue Card, and presumably could work anywhere in the EU on that, but I suspect the safest bet is to secure German PR, and then exercise the right to freedom of movement on that, rather than be in a position where they need to keep renewing the EU blue card, or applying for a new EU blue card in each member state in which they reside?
Any thoughts on the impact of intra-schengen travel during the period of DE residency? (continuity requiements)
posted by jpziller at 8:00 AM on May 20
If I understand you correctly, my friend's likely best path would be to apply for German PR (which they are currently eligible for), which, under EU law, would mean that there is no problem if they and I (an EU citizen) decide to move to NL, for example, for work -- ie, the German PR that they hold would easily transfer to NL residency via some bureaucratic process.
Friend currently holds an EU Blue Card, and presumably could work anywhere in the EU on that, but I suspect the safest bet is to secure German PR, and then exercise the right to freedom of movement on that, rather than be in a position where they need to keep renewing the EU blue card, or applying for a new EU blue card in each member state in which they reside?
Any thoughts on the impact of intra-schengen travel during the period of DE residency? (continuity requiements)
posted by jpziller at 8:00 AM on May 20
Best answer: I don't know what schemes are available in Germany, but definitely in Spain there are different types of permanent residency, national permanent residency and European long term (permanent) residency. Both are managed and issued by the Spanish immigration authorities, but they have different requirements and different advantages and disadvantages.
I would highly recommend your friend pony up the 200 euros or so for an hour consult with an good immigration lawyer and go in with a very specific list of questions. I've YOLO'd my way through three rounds of immigration processes in two countries now, and while the paperwork itself is generally very simple, the stress of figuring out WTF I was even supposed to be applying for, if I was actually eligible, and what documents I needed to submit was terrible. (Seems like about 90% of the information you need is easily available from government sources, while getting that vital last 10% requires weeks of posting on half a dozen internet forums and Facebook groups, and then separating the real and current facts from the half-remembered anecdotes of someone who applied 10 years ago and just plain random guesses from people who have never gone through the process).
posted by nanny's striped stocking at 8:34 AM on May 20 [4 favorites]
I would highly recommend your friend pony up the 200 euros or so for an hour consult with an good immigration lawyer and go in with a very specific list of questions. I've YOLO'd my way through three rounds of immigration processes in two countries now, and while the paperwork itself is generally very simple, the stress of figuring out WTF I was even supposed to be applying for, if I was actually eligible, and what documents I needed to submit was terrible. (Seems like about 90% of the information you need is easily available from government sources, while getting that vital last 10% requires weeks of posting on half a dozen internet forums and Facebook groups, and then separating the real and current facts from the half-remembered anecdotes of someone who applied 10 years ago and just plain random guesses from people who have never gone through the process).
posted by nanny's striped stocking at 8:34 AM on May 20 [4 favorites]
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There appears to be another scheme, wherein "EU Permanent Residency" can be obtained after five years.
This EU permanent residency seems to offer more in the way of intra-EU mobility than the 'easier to get' German PR.
posted by jpziller at 6:25 AM on May 20