ENM and the flow of information
May 4, 2024 10:03 AM Subscribe
This is just a request for perspectives to broaden my own and I realize there's not objective answer but here goes. I'm in a relationship that is ethically non-monogamous, though not poly. This is as it should be, for me, except there's kind of a bump in the road...
I've rarely been in a monogamous relationship. It just doesn't feel important to me. My boyfriend feels about the same, maybe more emphatically than I do. All good so far.
The thing is, I don't want to hear about it if he fools around with someone else, and he's on more of a "compersion" kick where having sex with other people is not just neutral but I guess positive and we should tell each other. I, to my surprise, have reacted badly sometimes when he has told me. Not like horribly, but I didn't feel good about it and said so, I think fairly directly/openly.
Am I doing non-monogamy wrong? Am I betraying an actual discomfort with ENM that I should resolve? Is there a compromise here? Another relationship I was in was much more Don't Ask/Don't Tell and that worked ok for me though I'm not sure that partner felt quite the same about it.
There's certainly room for me to introspect about why I don't want to hear about my boyfriend having sex with other people, but for the moment, I'm just like...can you do your thing and leave it at that? Is that a workable way to do this? I'm happy to tell him about my own stuff if he wants, or happy not to.
I've rarely been in a monogamous relationship. It just doesn't feel important to me. My boyfriend feels about the same, maybe more emphatically than I do. All good so far.
The thing is, I don't want to hear about it if he fools around with someone else, and he's on more of a "compersion" kick where having sex with other people is not just neutral but I guess positive and we should tell each other. I, to my surprise, have reacted badly sometimes when he has told me. Not like horribly, but I didn't feel good about it and said so, I think fairly directly/openly.
Am I doing non-monogamy wrong? Am I betraying an actual discomfort with ENM that I should resolve? Is there a compromise here? Another relationship I was in was much more Don't Ask/Don't Tell and that worked ok for me though I'm not sure that partner felt quite the same about it.
There's certainly room for me to introspect about why I don't want to hear about my boyfriend having sex with other people, but for the moment, I'm just like...can you do your thing and leave it at that? Is that a workable way to do this? I'm happy to tell him about my own stuff if he wants, or happy not to.
There’s nothing wrong with not wanting to hear the sexy fun times bit. I think the feelings part (like “I had a great Friday”) is a little greyer, depending on your relationship. Some people need to be able to share their joy and sorrow with their partners. But that doesn’t have to mean physical detail, and it’s not true of every relationship.
posted by warriorqueen at 10:58 AM on May 4 [5 favorites]
posted by warriorqueen at 10:58 AM on May 4 [5 favorites]
Am I doing non-monogamy wrong? Am I betraying an actual discomfort with ENM that I should resolve?
I don't think either is the case, but I'm sure it's up for debate. What I do know is that if he's telling or implying this to you (not clear from your post), that's a serious red flag.
posted by praemunire at 11:24 AM on May 4 [2 favorites]
I don't think either is the case, but I'm sure it's up for debate. What I do know is that if he's telling or implying this to you (not clear from your post), that's a serious red flag.
posted by praemunire at 11:24 AM on May 4 [2 favorites]
You’re not doing it wrong. My husband and I have been ENM for our entire more than 20-year relationship, and I do not want to hear about his sex with other people, period end of sentence, zero exceptions. Same with my other partner — he’s of course free to do what he wants, but he knows not to tell me about the details. Being ENM isn’t about gossip or titillation, and if someone thinks it has to be when you’re uncomfortable with it, that’s the person who’s doing it wrong, not you.
posted by O Sock, My Sock at 11:24 AM on May 4 [8 favorites]
posted by O Sock, My Sock at 11:24 AM on May 4 [8 favorites]
With one of my partners, we tell each other when we have had a sexual encounter, because my partner feels this is important for sexual health risk management. With the other, it’s “you do you” and the only disclosure expectation is if we’ve learned about an STI exposure.
My higher-disclosure partner would be happy to discuss encounters in more detail than “I had sex.” I do not like that. We had to do some negotiation around this at points in our relationship, where one or the other of us needed to deal with some discomfort. But in general, my partner is respectful of my comfort level.
Like you, I have considered that I could do some internal work on this, but honestly, I don’t think this is a problem and I’ve got lots of other ways I’d rather spend my energy. I’ve been non-monogamous for over a decade, so it’s not like this is an unsuccessful approach. I am doing it differently than the majority of people who like to talk about how they manage their ENM relationships, apparently, but different isn’t wrong.
posted by Hark! A Sock Puppet at 11:40 AM on May 4 [2 favorites]
My higher-disclosure partner would be happy to discuss encounters in more detail than “I had sex.” I do not like that. We had to do some negotiation around this at points in our relationship, where one or the other of us needed to deal with some discomfort. But in general, my partner is respectful of my comfort level.
Like you, I have considered that I could do some internal work on this, but honestly, I don’t think this is a problem and I’ve got lots of other ways I’d rather spend my energy. I’ve been non-monogamous for over a decade, so it’s not like this is an unsuccessful approach. I am doing it differently than the majority of people who like to talk about how they manage their ENM relationships, apparently, but different isn’t wrong.
posted by Hark! A Sock Puppet at 11:40 AM on May 4 [2 favorites]
Variations of "don't ask, don't tell" are super common in people who have open/ENM types of relationships. Some people like to tell everything to each other, but it's not part and parcel of non-monogamy.
posted by Dip Flash at 11:40 AM on May 4 [4 favorites]
posted by Dip Flash at 11:40 AM on May 4 [4 favorites]
If you ask him not to discuss details and he tries to do it anyway, he’s the one doing nonmonogamy wrong.
posted by showbiz_liz at 2:25 PM on May 4 [11 favorites]
posted by showbiz_liz at 2:25 PM on May 4 [11 favorites]
This is something that both partners need to be on the same page on for it to be successful. There isn't one correct answer, but it's a pretty fundamental disagreement about how your relationship works.
posted by capricorn at 2:33 PM on May 4 [3 favorites]
posted by capricorn at 2:33 PM on May 4 [3 favorites]
You get to decide your boundaries. End stop.
That said, I would not be comfortable in a relationship in which I had to police myself RE what I tell my partner about my days.
If this discomfort is something you decide you might want to try to change, it helps some people to explore whether it feels different hearing these things from their partners rather than their best friends. If yes, why? Do the answers expose any beliefs that are not true or helpful?
posted by metasarah at 3:43 PM on May 4 [1 favorite]
That said, I would not be comfortable in a relationship in which I had to police myself RE what I tell my partner about my days.
If this discomfort is something you decide you might want to try to change, it helps some people to explore whether it feels different hearing these things from their partners rather than their best friends. If yes, why? Do the answers expose any beliefs that are not true or helpful?
posted by metasarah at 3:43 PM on May 4 [1 favorite]
The thing is, I don't want to hear about it if he fools around with someone else,
If you don't want to be told about it, but it is okay with you if you accidentally find out then you're probably doing okay.
If it's something you expect your partner to actively hide from you then I think you may have wandered into an unhealthy place.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 4:31 PM on May 4 [2 favorites]
If you don't want to be told about it, but it is okay with you if you accidentally find out then you're probably doing okay.
If it's something you expect your partner to actively hide from you then I think you may have wandered into an unhealthy place.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 4:31 PM on May 4 [2 favorites]
When you are in a sexual relationship with someone you get to choose what you consent to.
Actually, when you are in any relationship you get to choose what you consent to. If you don't want to listen to someone complain about their job, or if you don't want to listen to someone describe what they dreamed about last night, or if you don't want to listen to them gushing over their favourite fandom, or if you don't want them to read their poetry to you, all you have to do is say, you don't want to, and if they go ahead and press you to listen they are violating your boundary rights and demonstrating that they don't care if they distress or annoy you.
What makes it worse in your case is that the chances are your partner insisting on telling you about their sexual adventures is that they are probably getting some kind of a thrill by doing it, like a guy sending you unsolicited dick pics, or a flasher exposing themself to you. Your partner is practicing unethical non monogamy.
You're fine. He's not. He's being a creep.
posted by Jane the Brown at 4:44 PM on May 4 [2 favorites]
Actually, when you are in any relationship you get to choose what you consent to. If you don't want to listen to someone complain about their job, or if you don't want to listen to someone describe what they dreamed about last night, or if you don't want to listen to them gushing over their favourite fandom, or if you don't want them to read their poetry to you, all you have to do is say, you don't want to, and if they go ahead and press you to listen they are violating your boundary rights and demonstrating that they don't care if they distress or annoy you.
What makes it worse in your case is that the chances are your partner insisting on telling you about their sexual adventures is that they are probably getting some kind of a thrill by doing it, like a guy sending you unsolicited dick pics, or a flasher exposing themself to you. Your partner is practicing unethical non monogamy.
You're fine. He's not. He's being a creep.
posted by Jane the Brown at 4:44 PM on May 4 [2 favorites]
I've been non-monogamous for, like 40 years, and my ex-partner and I, who were together for 29 years and had four children together, were very into hearing what we were getting up to, and even bringing side partners into bed with us from time to time. About ten years ago, I had a really wonderful experience of compersion when I got involved with a good friend's partner, and my friend and I really enjoyed sharing our affection and attraction for her.
But! I've had partners who were in a no-tell relationship with their other person or people. It really is very common and ordinary. With a person I'm currently involved with, I don't want to hear certain details, probably because we're long-distance and I don't feel fully secure in our relationship, which is about a year old. So even I, who have reveled in the details for many years, can decide to let my partner know I need to not hear so many details right now.
A boundary like, "I don't want to hear details. I don't even want you to tell me whether you had sex or not," is not different from a boundary like deciding you'll always use precautions when having sex with other people even if you and your partner are fluid-bonded, meaning you're having unprotected sex but only with each other. In both cases you're taking care of your physical and emotional well-being. If a partner can't respect boundaries like this, it's a good reason to reconsider the relationship. It can be a real barrier to a relationship if someone feels like being able to talk about other partners is something they need or very highly value in a relationship.
But you are not doing it wrong. You are totally doing it right by knowing your boundaries and stating them clearly. It is a red flag that a partner is not respecting those boundaries, and is pushing them on you rather than having a respectful meta-conversation about whether those boundaries are working for both of you and whether there is room for compromise or not.
posted by Well I never at 6:12 PM on May 4 [6 favorites]
But! I've had partners who were in a no-tell relationship with their other person or people. It really is very common and ordinary. With a person I'm currently involved with, I don't want to hear certain details, probably because we're long-distance and I don't feel fully secure in our relationship, which is about a year old. So even I, who have reveled in the details for many years, can decide to let my partner know I need to not hear so many details right now.
A boundary like, "I don't want to hear details. I don't even want you to tell me whether you had sex or not," is not different from a boundary like deciding you'll always use precautions when having sex with other people even if you and your partner are fluid-bonded, meaning you're having unprotected sex but only with each other. In both cases you're taking care of your physical and emotional well-being. If a partner can't respect boundaries like this, it's a good reason to reconsider the relationship. It can be a real barrier to a relationship if someone feels like being able to talk about other partners is something they need or very highly value in a relationship.
But you are not doing it wrong. You are totally doing it right by knowing your boundaries and stating them clearly. It is a red flag that a partner is not respecting those boundaries, and is pushing them on you rather than having a respectful meta-conversation about whether those boundaries are working for both of you and whether there is room for compromise or not.
posted by Well I never at 6:12 PM on May 4 [6 favorites]
There isn't a "normal" -- there is just what works for people and the dynamics they agree on together. When I was in a long term ENM relationship, I was exactly like you, and my ex was like your partner. So I told him, and he enjoyed it, and it was closer to don't ask don't tell (at least about specifics) in terms of what I wanted and didn't want to know.
Maybe it is some discomfort with non-monogamy, or maybe the source of this negative reaction is different for you, even if it "looks" like discomfort with non-monogamy.
But, as a big proponent of people being gentle with themselves and accommodating their discomforts, I say it does not matter: even if it is a discomfort with non-monogamy, you don't have to "resolve" it! It's totally fine to just accommodate it. After all, people have all sorts of discomforts within / stemming from normative monogamy all the time, and there isn't this high standard that every discomfort should be "resolved" in the high-level sense.
If you want to use this as a prompt for some sort of self-work or personal growth, and if you see challenging yourself to stretch beyond your comfort zone as something inherently valuable (many people do; I personally don't), by all means, go for it. But don't feel like you *have* to or else you are not doing ENM right. Sometimes it's enough to just find workarounds that make you comfortable.
posted by virve at 9:55 PM on May 4 [3 favorites]
Maybe it is some discomfort with non-monogamy, or maybe the source of this negative reaction is different for you, even if it "looks" like discomfort with non-monogamy.
But, as a big proponent of people being gentle with themselves and accommodating their discomforts, I say it does not matter: even if it is a discomfort with non-monogamy, you don't have to "resolve" it! It's totally fine to just accommodate it. After all, people have all sorts of discomforts within / stemming from normative monogamy all the time, and there isn't this high standard that every discomfort should be "resolved" in the high-level sense.
If you want to use this as a prompt for some sort of self-work or personal growth, and if you see challenging yourself to stretch beyond your comfort zone as something inherently valuable (many people do; I personally don't), by all means, go for it. But don't feel like you *have* to or else you are not doing ENM right. Sometimes it's enough to just find workarounds that make you comfortable.
posted by virve at 9:55 PM on May 4 [3 favorites]
Your boundaries are fine. His boundaries are whatever they are, but they don't necessarily make him a creep. He should respect your boundaries. A calm and detailed discussion, where he explains why this is important to him, may clear the air, but it may lead to an unmendable fracture in the relationship. In any case, you two are not on the same page. If you take the trouble to delve into why this is so important to him, you may profitably discuss why you don't want to be subjected to stories about other his partners.
You say you don't mind answering his questions when he asks them. He may see this as a reciprocal situation and be confused about why he should not share his experiences with you. I don't know, and I can't tell from your post what nuances may be in play in your relationship.
The situation is getting on your nerves. You don't have to put up with the status quo. A frank discussion with mutual goals is a path to ironing this out, assuming it can be ironed out. It would be wise not to assume the worst until you discover what the worst is.
posted by mule98J at 2:34 PM on May 6
You say you don't mind answering his questions when he asks them. He may see this as a reciprocal situation and be confused about why he should not share his experiences with you. I don't know, and I can't tell from your post what nuances may be in play in your relationship.
The situation is getting on your nerves. You don't have to put up with the status quo. A frank discussion with mutual goals is a path to ironing this out, assuming it can be ironed out. It would be wise not to assume the worst until you discover what the worst is.
posted by mule98J at 2:34 PM on May 6
For me, (and I'm not you), this would be context-sensitive, in a couple of different ways.
Like, is my partner (MP) wanting to share because:
a) fact-based information exchange? (for STD purposes, fluid exchange info)
b) to tell me about something different and enjoyable that occurred that MP wants to try with me?
c) to tell me about something that MP's wanted to do for a long time that i've been meh about and now that itch is scratched or otherwise off our shared plate?
d) post-encounter info-dumping or other processing/sharing because they're all NRE twitterpated and gotta tell me about it cause I'm their Person?
(just a few examples)
'Cause my willingness to hear, and how much detail I'm willing to be uncomfortable listening to varies depending on what's going on there. If you drill down into the impetus for the sharing/oversharing that currently occurring, you may be able to find more specific boundaries and better language/framework to communicate within.
posted by ApathyGirl at 3:26 PM on May 6
Like, is my partner (MP) wanting to share because:
a) fact-based information exchange? (for STD purposes, fluid exchange info)
b) to tell me about something different and enjoyable that occurred that MP wants to try with me?
c) to tell me about something that MP's wanted to do for a long time that i've been meh about and now that itch is scratched or otherwise off our shared plate?
d) post-encounter info-dumping or other processing/sharing because they're all NRE twitterpated and gotta tell me about it cause I'm their Person?
(just a few examples)
'Cause my willingness to hear, and how much detail I'm willing to be uncomfortable listening to varies depending on what's going on there. If you drill down into the impetus for the sharing/oversharing that currently occurring, you may be able to find more specific boundaries and better language/framework to communicate within.
posted by ApathyGirl at 3:26 PM on May 6
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posted by shadygrove at 10:46 AM on May 4 [7 favorites]