What is this person communicating?

April 26, 2024 8:23 AM

The source of the photo is this article at the CBC

What is the gesture the person is making in the background of this picture they are clearly communicating something but what?

I am suspicious it is not pleasant gesture and would like to be told I am wrong is possible.

posted by mrgroweler to Law & Government (22 answers total)

Response by poster: Links would be helpful sorry mods if you want to fix:

this article ::: MPP Sarah Jama defies order to remove keffiyeh at Queen's Park

This picture ::: mpp-sarah-jama.JPG
posted by mrgroweler at 8:26 AM on April 26 [1 favorite]

V sign (back of the hand to the viewer) as an insult
posted by wintersweet at 8:38 AM on April 26 [2 favorites]

Wider shot of the scene from the Toronto Star.

Assuming those people are in the same position, they appear to be legislative pages.
posted by zamboni at 8:42 AM on April 26

Response by poster: I understand the V Sign sorry I meant to say that. Worrying as that is, I am worried there is something more sinister to it as it includes a crotch grab. I will not thread sit.
posted by mrgroweler at 8:43 AM on April 26

I see room for the interpretation that the offensive gesture is being made at the guy hassling Jama, not at her, but hard to be certain without being there.
posted by SaltySalticid at 8:46 AM on April 26 [1 favorite]

Best answer: Just to be clear, this in Canada, yes?

Two fingers like that is not an insult in Canada. Here, that gesture means "two". Unless that person is British, there's no way they're using that to mean "up yours" or "fuck off". A Canadian would flip the bird.
posted by dobbs at 8:58 AM on April 26 [3 favorites]

This Radio Canada article has more photos, particularly this one. I think he's wearing a wrist brace on the other hand.
posted by zamboni at 9:04 AM on April 26

Response by poster: I have been educated by my daughter that I may be wrong, as well dobbs. that meaning has changed in the past few generations.
But in a photo that is never been two.
I am Canadian though I am older and it was always Back of hand = Fuck you (or you have no fingers for shooting arrows) and inward = peace (like the hippies).
posted by mrgroweler at 9:05 AM on April 26

My first reaction is they want 2 of something. Or there are 2 minutes left in something. Without further context I'm not sure you can read more into it. I understand the situation may have been charged overall, but the context of the exact picture isn't clear. I'm not sure why you believe it likely that the 2 gesture is not pleasant. It seems mostly likely to me that person was conveying "we have room for 2 more up here" or "we'd like 2 coffees please" or "there are 2 more minutes in this break" and they just happened to be behind Sarah Jama.
posted by cmm at 9:07 AM on April 26 [4 favorites]

I really don't think that's a likely interpretation here; that's not a common gesture here unless someone is trying to be self-consciously "British". I'd guess it's someone indication a certain amount of time left or some other procedural note. I also don't think they're grabbing their crotch; I think they're holding the bottom of their blazer, and possibly keeping their hand there because that's the expected resting position - see the wider shot.
posted by sagc at 9:07 AM on April 26 [1 favorite]

Best answer: Two possibilities:

1. this is the edgelordiest and most affected 8th grader to ever set foot in the Ontario Legislature
2. it's an awkward hand gesture at an inopportune time

posted by zamboni at 9:19 AM on April 26 [16 favorites]

Without further context, and I'm aware of this current Sarah Jama situation so something more than that, I would take that as a "2" as opposed to something else.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 9:41 AM on April 26

What Zamboni said.
posted by avocet at 9:48 AM on April 26

As someone who spectated from the gallery for the first time two months ago, but has a deep understanding of the silent communications that make democracy happen when meetings are underway, agreeing that this is likely communicating something procedural, unless this is as punk as fuck page.
posted by avocet at 9:51 AM on April 26 [2 favorites]

I’m British, and this just somehow doesn’t look like the way we’d use it as an insult. It’s not upright enough, it’s too close to the body, it’s just not the kind of gesture you’d make in this context.

Flicking the V and doing a crotch grab isn’t really a thing, either. I mean, maybe someone’s done it, somewhere, in the whole history of the world. But it’s not a common or recognised combination. The crotch grab is kind of sexual; the V sign is more of a straightforward quick, angry gesture, not a particularly sexual one that would be amplified by a crotch grab.
posted by penguin pie at 10:44 AM on April 26 [5 favorites]

This doesn't necessarily seem like the most likely explanation, but my pretty strong first impression was that the person making the gesture wasn't reacting to the situation but to the photography itself, and made the hand gesture as a goofy "you saw me!" gesture. In particular, it seems almost exactly like the use in this clip. (As far as why that gesture has taken this role, I wonder if it's influenced not only by the peace sign and possibly the British fuck-off gesture, but also the practice of "bunny ears" in pictures -- like, "oh man, if I was standing behind someone right now, I could make them look soooo silly". But that's probably reading too much into it.)
posted by dick dale the vampire at 10:52 AM on April 26 [2 favorites]

The expressions on the kids' faces in the previously linked photo are the exact inverse of goofy whimsy. I read them as I wish I was anywhere but here.
posted by zamboni at 12:05 PM on April 26 [1 favorite]

The photos in both the Toronto Star and Radio Canada links posted by zamboni don’t seem to be the same one in the question’s first link, nor do they include a person making a V sign. Could they have both been replaced because the gesture was interpreted to be offensive?
posted by bendy at 1:53 PM on April 26 [1 favorite]

In particular, it seems almost exactly like the use in this clip.

Absolutely. I think it is perfectly normal to give a "backwards peace sign" among young people in North America as a kind of "I need something to do with my hands" gesture, with no offense intended. If you scroll down this page of stock photos, you can see several examples, in particular, a woman in the 4th row.
posted by Rock Steady at 1:59 PM on April 26 [1 favorite]

The photos in both the Toronto Star and Radio Canada links posted by zamboni don’t seem to be the same one in the question’s first link

Correct. To be clear, they were photos of the wider scene, not from the exact same instant as the initial photo. The first photo I posted doesn’t even have the legislative page in question, and both show a different person speaking to Jama. Nothing has been replaced.
posted by zamboni at 2:09 PM on April 26

For inexplicable reasons, the CBC Lite version of the article contains a less-cropped version of the image in question if it's helpful.
posted by bethnull at 2:53 PM on April 26 [3 favorites]

In the less cropped version he appears to be looking over and across the room. More support, in my view, for the theory that this is message to someone about time or some other mundane operations matter.
posted by Lesser Shrew at 12:35 PM on April 27