How to respond to a meddler in family affairs?
April 11, 2024 1:19 PM Subscribe
My MIL is a textbook narcissistic abuser and after her last verbal attack, the hubby and I decided we don't want her in our lives anymore. Fast forward to this morning, where the MIL's friend decided to take exception and say the wrong thing. It's gotten under my skin and I'm about to explode saying something, but I know it probably wouldn't be wise.
I've been holding this all in for so long, but here goes...
My MIL has verbally attacked and berated me for years now, ever since I met him. He has always warned me about her, and has stated that he keeps her at a healthy distance because she is manipulative and hurtful. Indeed, this was his experience growing up with her, and all his counseling has taught him that he has been right to do so. She had been living in another state, which made keeping that distance much easier.
She moved down to our city about 6 years ago. She did this against our wishes, but she'd made up her mind, packed up her crap, sold her house, and moved here. This made keeping the distance much more difficult, of course. She said she would respect our privacy, but that didn't happen. Whenever we met up with her (Thanksgiving and Christmas mostly), we tried to keep things light and casual, but she always found a way to throw insults out at family gatherings. Naturally, it made us upset.
The last time we met up was last fall, when the hubby's family came into town from across the country. We hadn't seen them in years, and of course, MIL invited herself to everything we wanted to do with them. That's when she verbally attacked me again, out of nowhere. (I'm not going to get into the whole thing or else this post will be longer than the unabridged Les Miserables, but suffice to say it was very nasty, hurtful, and vindictive.) Hubby said he was done with her crap and drama. I said I was done with her crap and drama. No contact, grey rock, all that good stuff. 'Nuff said.
The MIL did NOT like that. She kept calling the hubby and I for weeks, leaving voicemails saying that she knew she did something wrong (but didn't know what it was), and that she would TRY to be better. She sent me flowers. It was like being love-bombed. I told the hubby that maybe he should lay it out for her so that she knows we're going to love her from afar, but just not place ourselves in a position where we're going to be hurt again (and again, and again...). He has adamantly chosen not to, has refused all contact from her, and at this point I think he's set on never really speaking to her again.
Since then, the hubby and I have stolidly maintained our distance. Things have been so much better since then. No drama, no BS, just living our lives as simply as we can while we try to make our way through the world. It's been very nice. We have our ups and downs like everyone else, but the peace has been lovely.
My own elderly parents are going through a really tough time right now. My dad fell yesterday, my mom came down with some danged respiratory thing this week, and all in the midst of having some major home repairs to contend with. So I asked my friends on the Book of Faces last night for whatever good energy/meditations/prayers/positive juju, etc. that they could send their way.
Unfortunately, one of my FB friends happens to be the MIL's friend. She opted to meddle into this and insinuate that I don't care about the MIL. Her comment on my post was (exact quote), "I wish you could feel the same care and understanding for your in laws!!! Time is short for us all and regrets are long!"
That sure pissed me off, and hubby, too. He commented back to her that she doesn't know the whole story and that it's none of her business, anyway. (Yay hubby!)
Now it's all bugging me and I'm not sure what to do here. As much as common sense dictates to just ignore everything and block the MIL's friend, I have this annoying drive to say my piece to MIL's friend, and continue going on without the MIL in our lives. I'd love to say that MIL's son doesn't want her in his life, nor in mine, that's she's a narcissistic twat and to go fuck off and live her life as she sees fit. But that's unwise and is only going to bring more crap that we don't want, isn't it?
It's clear that the MIL thinks I am completely to blame for cutting her out, which isn't totally true, because it's the hubby's wish, too. I struggle with feeling like if I don't say my piece, I'm not being true to myself somehow. I just want to put all this to bed for good, and I think the hubby does, too. We do feel compassion for the MIL, we just don't want to be hurt again. So Hive Mind, your advice and experiences with things like this are more than welcome here. Thank you all in advance-
I've been holding this all in for so long, but here goes...
My MIL has verbally attacked and berated me for years now, ever since I met him. He has always warned me about her, and has stated that he keeps her at a healthy distance because she is manipulative and hurtful. Indeed, this was his experience growing up with her, and all his counseling has taught him that he has been right to do so. She had been living in another state, which made keeping that distance much easier.
She moved down to our city about 6 years ago. She did this against our wishes, but she'd made up her mind, packed up her crap, sold her house, and moved here. This made keeping the distance much more difficult, of course. She said she would respect our privacy, but that didn't happen. Whenever we met up with her (Thanksgiving and Christmas mostly), we tried to keep things light and casual, but she always found a way to throw insults out at family gatherings. Naturally, it made us upset.
The last time we met up was last fall, when the hubby's family came into town from across the country. We hadn't seen them in years, and of course, MIL invited herself to everything we wanted to do with them. That's when she verbally attacked me again, out of nowhere. (I'm not going to get into the whole thing or else this post will be longer than the unabridged Les Miserables, but suffice to say it was very nasty, hurtful, and vindictive.) Hubby said he was done with her crap and drama. I said I was done with her crap and drama. No contact, grey rock, all that good stuff. 'Nuff said.
The MIL did NOT like that. She kept calling the hubby and I for weeks, leaving voicemails saying that she knew she did something wrong (but didn't know what it was), and that she would TRY to be better. She sent me flowers. It was like being love-bombed. I told the hubby that maybe he should lay it out for her so that she knows we're going to love her from afar, but just not place ourselves in a position where we're going to be hurt again (and again, and again...). He has adamantly chosen not to, has refused all contact from her, and at this point I think he's set on never really speaking to her again.
Since then, the hubby and I have stolidly maintained our distance. Things have been so much better since then. No drama, no BS, just living our lives as simply as we can while we try to make our way through the world. It's been very nice. We have our ups and downs like everyone else, but the peace has been lovely.
My own elderly parents are going through a really tough time right now. My dad fell yesterday, my mom came down with some danged respiratory thing this week, and all in the midst of having some major home repairs to contend with. So I asked my friends on the Book of Faces last night for whatever good energy/meditations/prayers/positive juju, etc. that they could send their way.
Unfortunately, one of my FB friends happens to be the MIL's friend. She opted to meddle into this and insinuate that I don't care about the MIL. Her comment on my post was (exact quote), "I wish you could feel the same care and understanding for your in laws!!! Time is short for us all and regrets are long!"
That sure pissed me off, and hubby, too. He commented back to her that she doesn't know the whole story and that it's none of her business, anyway. (Yay hubby!)
Now it's all bugging me and I'm not sure what to do here. As much as common sense dictates to just ignore everything and block the MIL's friend, I have this annoying drive to say my piece to MIL's friend, and continue going on without the MIL in our lives. I'd love to say that MIL's son doesn't want her in his life, nor in mine, that's she's a narcissistic twat and to go fuck off and live her life as she sees fit. But that's unwise and is only going to bring more crap that we don't want, isn't it?
It's clear that the MIL thinks I am completely to blame for cutting her out, which isn't totally true, because it's the hubby's wish, too. I struggle with feeling like if I don't say my piece, I'm not being true to myself somehow. I just want to put all this to bed for good, and I think the hubby does, too. We do feel compassion for the MIL, we just don't want to be hurt again. So Hive Mind, your advice and experiences with things like this are more than welcome here. Thank you all in advance-
This might be one of those times that it's helpful for you write out a long version of everything you'd want to say to her, then save it and never send it.
I get wanting to be clear and straightforward about your feelings to *make* someone understand, but she is refusing to understand on principle, and it won't help things at all.
So get your feelings out on paper (metaphorically maybe--I'd probably just whip something up in a google doc) and then sit with it while your life stabilizes and the anger dissipates. Focus that energy on serving your own family.
Continue to refuse contact and grey rock her until it becomes habit.
And yeah, unfriend/block all mutuals, and lockdown your privacy to keep things as un-public as possible bc people like that will do their best to meddle.
posted by greta simone at 1:29 PM on April 11 [23 favorites]
I get wanting to be clear and straightforward about your feelings to *make* someone understand, but she is refusing to understand on principle, and it won't help things at all.
So get your feelings out on paper (metaphorically maybe--I'd probably just whip something up in a google doc) and then sit with it while your life stabilizes and the anger dissipates. Focus that energy on serving your own family.
Continue to refuse contact and grey rock her until it becomes habit.
And yeah, unfriend/block all mutuals, and lockdown your privacy to keep things as un-public as possible bc people like that will do their best to meddle.
posted by greta simone at 1:29 PM on April 11 [23 favorites]
You can't make her understand, because she doesn't want to understand. Block and move on.
posted by praemunire at 1:30 PM on April 11 [29 favorites]
posted by praemunire at 1:30 PM on April 11 [29 favorites]
Open a blank email or notepad file. Write a letter directed to the MIL's friend saying everything you want to say, but don't send it. (If you use a blank email, don't actually put their or anyone else's email address in the "to" line, either, lest you accidentally click "send.") Write it all out and don't hold back. Once you feel like you've said everything you want to say, save it somewhere safe and go for a walk or do something nice for yourself that you enjoy. Later, if it helps, you can print it out and do a little ceremony to "burn" the letter and let go of the excess energy. But writing the letter may be enough.
MIL's friend is not going to see or take your side, even though you are in the right. Yes, there's always a chance that someone will see the light after hearing the truth, but it's highly unlikely to be this person. Responding to them directly would just give them what they want - the satisfaction of knowing that their words got under your skin - while also making them feel more important than they actually are. It will also get back to the MIL and undo all of the grey rocking you and your husband have been doing.
posted by nightrecordings at 1:32 PM on April 11 [3 favorites]
MIL's friend is not going to see or take your side, even though you are in the right. Yes, there's always a chance that someone will see the light after hearing the truth, but it's highly unlikely to be this person. Responding to them directly would just give them what they want - the satisfaction of knowing that their words got under your skin - while also making them feel more important than they actually are. It will also get back to the MIL and undo all of the grey rocking you and your husband have been doing.
posted by nightrecordings at 1:32 PM on April 11 [3 favorites]
Look, something really tough about this is that you can't make everyone understand. Not MIL, and not her friends. The friend behaved pretty darn rudely! So go ahead and remove the friend as one of your friends. This is part of getting that distance from your MIL.
It seems like your hubby has really come to a good place with boundaries. Can you follow his lead and trust that he's got good knowledge and instincts here? Also, you note that he's been to a lot of counseling about his relationship with his mother. Maybe it would be good for you to have a few therapy sessions of your own, to help reinforce for you some of these healthy boundaries.
It feels bad when people are critical, I know. But you aren't going to get what you want from them, so you have to figure out how to move forward without it.
posted by bluedaisy at 1:38 PM on April 11 [15 favorites]
It seems like your hubby has really come to a good place with boundaries. Can you follow his lead and trust that he's got good knowledge and instincts here? Also, you note that he's been to a lot of counseling about his relationship with his mother. Maybe it would be good for you to have a few therapy sessions of your own, to help reinforce for you some of these healthy boundaries.
It feels bad when people are critical, I know. But you aren't going to get what you want from them, so you have to figure out how to move forward without it.
posted by bluedaisy at 1:38 PM on April 11 [15 favorites]
please don't feed these creatures
I admire you and your husband for the work you've done. Life is short, too short to waste one blessed moment on these people and the energy they crave. I know so many people in their late 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s, who give so much to the world. These people you're describing, they take. They feed off drama and you will never give the right answers, you will never appease what they seem to need.
posted by elkevelvet at 1:42 PM on April 11 [7 favorites]
I admire you and your husband for the work you've done. Life is short, too short to waste one blessed moment on these people and the energy they crave. I know so many people in their late 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s, who give so much to the world. These people you're describing, they take. They feed off drama and you will never give the right answers, you will never appease what they seem to need.
posted by elkevelvet at 1:42 PM on April 11 [7 favorites]
Based on your statement that she's been a narcissistic abuser your hubby's entire life, you're not going to change MIL. She's never going to be a positive family member to you two. Sad, but there it is.
You've done what you can. You've tried. She wants to have her cake AND have your cake AND have it all to her standards AND eat it all while you starve OH and you can bring her more cake which she'll criticize while crumbs fall from her mouth as she shovels in another mouthful. You've tried to live with her in your life, now it's time to take care of yourselves. MIL's friend is definitely on MIL's side in this. Refer back to hubby's comment that Friend of MIL doesn't know the whole story and that your boundaries are firm, state that you're not going to share lots of details with World + Algorithm, block MIL's friend on BoF, and go on with your life.
You can't "win" that game. So just...don't play.
posted by Tailkinker to-Ennien at 1:51 PM on April 11 [6 favorites]
You've done what you can. You've tried. She wants to have her cake AND have your cake AND have it all to her standards AND eat it all while you starve OH and you can bring her more cake which she'll criticize while crumbs fall from her mouth as she shovels in another mouthful. You've tried to live with her in your life, now it's time to take care of yourselves. MIL's friend is definitely on MIL's side in this. Refer back to hubby's comment that Friend of MIL doesn't know the whole story and that your boundaries are firm, state that you're not going to share lots of details with World + Algorithm, block MIL's friend on BoF, and go on with your life.
You can't "win" that game. So just...don't play.
posted by Tailkinker to-Ennien at 1:51 PM on April 11 [6 favorites]
The only reason she is being nice is because she's trying to get your attention. When she gets your attention, she is going to switch straight over into telling you "Here is Why I Am Right And You Are Wrong" and will ignore everything you say.
Don't give her the opportunity.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 1:53 PM on April 11 [8 favorites]
Don't give her the opportunity.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 1:53 PM on April 11 [8 favorites]
BLOCK her now. Block her yesterday. Block her tomorrow. No need to explain or engage. Just BLOCK Her and imagine the steam coming out of her ears when she realizes that she has been cut off from feeding the drama. Honestly, I'm kind of surprised that you would be friends with her on FB in the first place considering her connection with MIL.
Also, highly recommend finding some form of antiquated printer or other piece of obsolete equipment and take your justified rage against MIL on it to vent the same.
posted by tafetta, darling! at 1:54 PM on April 11 [5 favorites]
Also, highly recommend finding some form of antiquated printer or other piece of obsolete equipment and take your justified rage against MIL on it to vent the same.
posted by tafetta, darling! at 1:54 PM on April 11 [5 favorites]
Best answer: I struggle with feeling like if I don't say my piece, I'm not being true to myself somehow.
My wife has something like this where she'll say her piece instead of just ignoring something and moving on and all it ever does is revive whatever issue was there in the first place. Don't do this. It does nothing to resolve the issue and it makes no one feel better afterwards.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 1:56 PM on April 11 [13 favorites]
My wife has something like this where she'll say her piece instead of just ignoring something and moving on and all it ever does is revive whatever issue was there in the first place. Don't do this. It does nothing to resolve the issue and it makes no one feel better afterwards.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 1:56 PM on April 11 [13 favorites]
You don’t have to speak truth for it to be true. Part of dealing with a narcissist is that they will always have defenders (also known as “sources of narcissistic supply”) in their sphere, because they cultivate them. Those people will likely be dropped later but that’s not your circus or monkeys.
Block and move on; hope venting here helps.
posted by warriorqueen at 2:00 PM on April 11 [18 favorites]
Block and move on; hope venting here helps.
posted by warriorqueen at 2:00 PM on April 11 [18 favorites]
Delete her comment and block her. If you don't want drama, don't be the drama.
My mother and I had been mostly estranged for years. We reconnected, but at a significant distance, a few years before she died. At her funeral I warmly greeted a good friend of hers I'd known from childhood, only to have her coldly turn away without speaking. I am 100% sure she heard a version of the events that led to my estrangement from my mother that painted me in a bad light and my mother as the victim. It hurt my feelings, and I was terribly tempted to contact her and set her straight, but ultimately decided against it. I just decided to try to be happy that my mom had a friend who cared about her and thought well of her to the end. It's really no skin off my ass what the friend thinks of me.
Unless this friend is actually doing some real life harm to you, maybe just try and take the attitude "good for MIL, glad she has a friend." A friend you block and delete so her nonsense doesn't disturb your peace.
posted by Serene Empress Dork at 2:02 PM on April 11 [29 favorites]
My mother and I had been mostly estranged for years. We reconnected, but at a significant distance, a few years before she died. At her funeral I warmly greeted a good friend of hers I'd known from childhood, only to have her coldly turn away without speaking. I am 100% sure she heard a version of the events that led to my estrangement from my mother that painted me in a bad light and my mother as the victim. It hurt my feelings, and I was terribly tempted to contact her and set her straight, but ultimately decided against it. I just decided to try to be happy that my mom had a friend who cared about her and thought well of her to the end. It's really no skin off my ass what the friend thinks of me.
Unless this friend is actually doing some real life harm to you, maybe just try and take the attitude "good for MIL, glad she has a friend." A friend you block and delete so her nonsense doesn't disturb your peace.
posted by Serene Empress Dork at 2:02 PM on April 11 [29 favorites]
That person isn't your friend. Block them. And save your energy for people who deserve it.
posted by seanmpuckett at 2:04 PM on April 11 [4 favorites]
posted by seanmpuckett at 2:04 PM on April 11 [4 favorites]
On a tangent: When you're feeling mostly-equanimity about this, check in with your awesome hubby -- not to vent, but to make sure he's okay and to reassure him that you're not going to stir up more drama.
If he returns the check-in, it's most likely okay to vent a bit, but try 1) not to end up in a repetitive loop, and 2) to have that be the end of it.
If you have a friend you can vent to, that's a better option than venting to hubby. You likely already know this, but just saying.
posted by humbug at 2:10 PM on April 11 [5 favorites]
If he returns the check-in, it's most likely okay to vent a bit, but try 1) not to end up in a repetitive loop, and 2) to have that be the end of it.
If you have a friend you can vent to, that's a better option than venting to hubby. You likely already know this, but just saying.
posted by humbug at 2:10 PM on April 11 [5 favorites]
For the sake of argument, imagine an alternate reality in which you and your husband *are* the ones in the wrong with respect to your inlaws.
Most reasonable people *still* wouldn’t make a comment like that, because they’d recognize it’s none of their business, even in that scenario!
Therefore she is intractably unreasonable. Block and move on.
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 2:14 PM on April 11 [11 favorites]
Most reasonable people *still* wouldn’t make a comment like that, because they’d recognize it’s none of their business, even in that scenario!
Therefore she is intractably unreasonable. Block and move on.
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 2:14 PM on April 11 [11 favorites]
Best answer: Unfriend this person right now!
Other people don't have a right to your business. Not everyone is a good steward of information. The thing about people having the wrong idea about you is you can just....let them. The truth is no one is perfectly understood. Even if you laid out all the facts in your case, like a genius TV lawyer, that FB friend might still think they're right and you're wrong — telling them everything won't necessarily solve the problem, and it could make other problems worse. FB person does not get a vote in how you relate to your MIL. There are already infinity things you don't share with this person, and this is one more.
I wonder if this comment is bugging you extra hard because you're under so much stress re: your parents, and some of that fear is easier to experience as anger, especially when this nosy person presents such a wonderful vessel for all those grrrrr feelings. So some of that "must! do! something!" urge is fear coming out the wrong tube. (This is not criticism, it's just something I experience a lot, and sometimes it's helpful to get to the bottom of a big-bad feeling. To be clear, their behavior absolutely sucks ass.)
posted by Charity Garfein at 2:22 PM on April 11 [12 favorites]
Other people don't have a right to your business. Not everyone is a good steward of information. The thing about people having the wrong idea about you is you can just....let them. The truth is no one is perfectly understood. Even if you laid out all the facts in your case, like a genius TV lawyer, that FB friend might still think they're right and you're wrong — telling them everything won't necessarily solve the problem, and it could make other problems worse. FB person does not get a vote in how you relate to your MIL. There are already infinity things you don't share with this person, and this is one more.
I wonder if this comment is bugging you extra hard because you're under so much stress re: your parents, and some of that fear is easier to experience as anger, especially when this nosy person presents such a wonderful vessel for all those grrrrr feelings. So some of that "must! do! something!" urge is fear coming out the wrong tube. (This is not criticism, it's just something I experience a lot, and sometimes it's helpful to get to the bottom of a big-bad feeling. To be clear, their behavior absolutely sucks ass.)
posted by Charity Garfein at 2:22 PM on April 11 [12 favorites]
Any attention she gets from you or your husband will be good attention, as far as she's concerned. Block her and move on.
posted by maryellenreads at 2:27 PM on April 11 [2 favorites]
posted by maryellenreads at 2:27 PM on April 11 [2 favorites]
IF I responded Family situations can be quite complicated. I appreciate the spirit in which you are offering advice, but please do not put yourself in this situation again. It's not unreasonable to add MIL's behavior was very damaging. I don't want to re-hash it, but I will not allow anyone freedom to hurt.
But, it's adding gasoline to a raging fire. Narcissist MIL has set you up and she almost certainly craves drama and interaction. The absolutely most effective approach is to completely ignore her. She is likely to escalate, so keep some form of documentation, because sometimes people need restraining orders. I was married to a toxic narcissist. Writing it down really helped me see how abusive he was and is, and that helped me stay away and get over caring for him.
Write it in a private blog post. Take a drive and say your peace to the car. Bring it here. MIL thrives on drama, and fueling it gives her energy to keep her desire to engage alive.
posted by theora55 at 2:27 PM on April 11 [2 favorites]
But, it's adding gasoline to a raging fire. Narcissist MIL has set you up and she almost certainly craves drama and interaction. The absolutely most effective approach is to completely ignore her. She is likely to escalate, so keep some form of documentation, because sometimes people need restraining orders. I was married to a toxic narcissist. Writing it down really helped me see how abusive he was and is, and that helped me stay away and get over caring for him.
Write it in a private blog post. Take a drive and say your peace to the car. Bring it here. MIL thrives on drama, and fueling it gives her energy to keep her desire to engage alive.
posted by theora55 at 2:27 PM on April 11 [2 favorites]
First off, block/unfriend/unfollow/delete all comments from the meddler. You said Facebook Friend, so I will take that to mean loose acquaintance rather than actual friend you hang out with or communicate regularly with. You do not owe the meddler any explanation and they were wrong to insert themselves into this.
As for saying your piece...I think you should take the advice of others and write everything out and then have a ceremonial burning of the piece. Actually saying something to MIL is probably not going to have the impact of her having an aha moment, change of heart or change of behavior. It will simply give MIL another opportunity to debate you about try to wear you down with more rationalizations and hurtful comments about why she's right and you're wrong.
posted by brookeb at 2:42 PM on April 11 [1 favorite]
As for saying your piece...I think you should take the advice of others and write everything out and then have a ceremonial burning of the piece. Actually saying something to MIL is probably not going to have the impact of her having an aha moment, change of heart or change of behavior. It will simply give MIL another opportunity to debate you about try to wear you down with more rationalizations and hurtful comments about why she's right and you're wrong.
posted by brookeb at 2:42 PM on April 11 [1 favorite]
Answering her would be like having an argument with MIL by proxy. MIL sent her (either literally or via some calculated whining) to argue with you because you managed to block her from your life so she can't do it herself. Anything you say to friend will be reported back to MIL.
I believe you're aware of this, but you're still tempted. So maybe some part of you still kinda wants to lay into MIL via her friend.
I wouldn't blame you, but please don't let her back into your life
posted by Omnomnom at 2:45 PM on April 11 [5 favorites]
I believe you're aware of this, but you're still tempted. So maybe some part of you still kinda wants to lay into MIL via her friend.
I wouldn't blame you, but please don't let her back into your life
posted by Omnomnom at 2:45 PM on April 11 [5 favorites]
Facebook has filters - you can literally filter specific people out of specific posts - if this meddling person needs to stay on your friends list you can filter them out of any and all posts.
posted by The Last Sockpuppet at 2:49 PM on April 11 [6 favorites]
posted by The Last Sockpuppet at 2:49 PM on April 11 [6 favorites]
Your husband should make the decision here on how he wants the two of you to engage or not engage with this; this isn’t your situation to drive, even though it affects you too. But I can’t imagine any good coming of doing anything but blocking, muting, or filtering this friend and moving along.
posted by Stacey at 2:53 PM on April 11 [1 favorite]
posted by Stacey at 2:53 PM on April 11 [1 favorite]
Go read about Flying Monkeys, even if you're already familiar with the term, because that's exactly what this person is being. The MIL is using them to get at you: don't let it work!
Reddit's got some great communities if you need to vent to people who truly get it. r/JustNoMIL comes to mind, and r/raisedbynarcissists (+ its RBN Network section under About) if you need more examples–many probably bizarrely similar in overall plot–of how this would play out.
posted by teremala at 2:56 PM on April 11 [3 favorites]
Reddit's got some great communities if you need to vent to people who truly get it. r/JustNoMIL comes to mind, and r/raisedbynarcissists (+ its RBN Network section under About) if you need more examples–many probably bizarrely similar in overall plot–of how this would play out.
posted by teremala at 2:56 PM on April 11 [3 favorites]
Best answer: You 100% need to process this, as you are trauma-triggered and dysregulated.
Processing does not involve her; this is a YOU thing. You need to let your nervous system get its ya-yas out. You know yourself, so what tends to work for you? Is it physical labor, is it an act of creation, is it bear-hugging your husband, all of the above? Do you need to mow the lawn about this so you can shove something around and yell and nobody can hear you? Do it. Let your body vent this pent-up anxiety and misery.
The meddling friend gets unfriended, end of conversation. In your life, especially with regard to this particular minefield, anybody who starts shit gets cut off, and then they can't start it anymore. Don't make public posts on FB anymore, which is also just good life advice - everything should be default "friends only" or even a limited list of people you actually like.
And seriously: put on some heavy metal and headbang. Do an interpretive dance of fury and then dance a ritual of protection. Go clean out a junk drawer, and for every item you get rid of you can visualize it as more and more of your MIL's bullshit going into the trash where it belongs. Let your body finish the fight, one way or another.
posted by Lyn Never at 3:16 PM on April 11 [14 favorites]
Processing does not involve her; this is a YOU thing. You need to let your nervous system get its ya-yas out. You know yourself, so what tends to work for you? Is it physical labor, is it an act of creation, is it bear-hugging your husband, all of the above? Do you need to mow the lawn about this so you can shove something around and yell and nobody can hear you? Do it. Let your body vent this pent-up anxiety and misery.
The meddling friend gets unfriended, end of conversation. In your life, especially with regard to this particular minefield, anybody who starts shit gets cut off, and then they can't start it anymore. Don't make public posts on FB anymore, which is also just good life advice - everything should be default "friends only" or even a limited list of people you actually like.
And seriously: put on some heavy metal and headbang. Do an interpretive dance of fury and then dance a ritual of protection. Go clean out a junk drawer, and for every item you get rid of you can visualize it as more and more of your MIL's bullshit going into the trash where it belongs. Let your body finish the fight, one way or another.
posted by Lyn Never at 3:16 PM on April 11 [14 favorites]
On the one hand, the objectively wisest thing to do is block and move on. On the other hand, I'd be tempted to unload on her... and then block and move on. "Wow, thank you for those wise words! You've really made me think--I WOULD regret it if I never heard Sharon's sweet voice calling me a stupid selfish c**t again. I'm going to phone her right away!" Like, I'm not saying that's a healthy, productive, or values-aligned choice, but it might be a bad/unhealthy choice that doesn't incur many consequences--a fun-size candy bar of bad behavior. This lady was rude and presumptuous, and you wouldn't be out of line to put her in her place. And it might feel nice. Again, not saying you should, or that it's the move you'll be most proud of, but it sounds like you're working really hard to be a healthy grownup with boundaries, and venting some frustration in this lady's direction could be a little cathartic.
posted by theotherdurassister at 3:31 PM on April 11
posted by theotherdurassister at 3:31 PM on April 11
Narcissists keep people in their circle until that person recognizes the dysfunction. Here is the thing, family not talking to other family members is a huge red flag. In fact it is a ginormous red flag and one day in the future this person is going to hear horrible things from this person and realize that behavior is exactly why.
Let MILs actions speak for themselves. Let her burn her own bridges.
Block. Keep the boundries.
posted by AlexiaSky at 3:53 PM on April 11
Let MILs actions speak for themselves. Let her burn her own bridges.
Block. Keep the boundries.
posted by AlexiaSky at 3:53 PM on April 11
Do you have rage rooms in your area? If yes, maybe this is time to make an appointment to go smash some stuff. If not, I wonder if you have any ability to go...break something? Or go into the yard and just SCREAM for a while? (Only if that's okay in your area; we don't want anyone to call the police.)
This feels like a great time to get it all out of your body. Hit something. Cry. Literally stomp your feet, maybe?
posted by BlahLaLa at 4:44 PM on April 11
This feels like a great time to get it all out of your body. Hit something. Cry. Literally stomp your feet, maybe?
posted by BlahLaLa at 4:44 PM on April 11
Say nothing, block her, and while you’re at it, you might prune other mutuals, too, or at least create a restricted list they’re not on to talk family stuff.
posted by eirias at 6:11 PM on April 11 [1 favorite]
posted by eirias at 6:11 PM on April 11 [1 favorite]
Delete her comment and your husband's response, unfriend her, block her from yours and your husband's account and just move on.
Nothing you say to her will change anything.
posted by cooker girl at 6:21 PM on April 11 [3 favorites]
Nothing you say to her will change anything.
posted by cooker girl at 6:21 PM on April 11 [3 favorites]
Best answer: Arguing with one of your MIL's flying monkeys about your MIL will get you about as far as arguing with a MAGAhat about TFG. Don't bother.
As much as common sense dictates to just ignore everything and block the MIL's friend, I have this annoying drive to say my piece to MIL's friend, and continue going on without the MIL in our lives.
Yeah, that annoying drive is the stink of the precision-guided shit that the flying monkey just bombed you with. It will dissipate given time. Just keep reminding yourself that anything you say to the flying monkey will get relayed to MIL and would therefore set back the project of going on without the MIL in your life.
In this case, common sense is definitely good sense. Handle this one the right way, and handling the next one will come easier.
There will certainly be a next one.
posted by flabdablet at 7:48 PM on April 11 [6 favorites]
As much as common sense dictates to just ignore everything and block the MIL's friend, I have this annoying drive to say my piece to MIL's friend, and continue going on without the MIL in our lives.
Yeah, that annoying drive is the stink of the precision-guided shit that the flying monkey just bombed you with. It will dissipate given time. Just keep reminding yourself that anything you say to the flying monkey will get relayed to MIL and would therefore set back the project of going on without the MIL in your life.
In this case, common sense is definitely good sense. Handle this one the right way, and handling the next one will come easier.
There will certainly be a next one.
posted by flabdablet at 7:48 PM on April 11 [6 favorites]
I feel for you but that isn't really being a meddler in family affairs. This is someone who you allowed to be your FB friend who commented on your FB post. That is the nature of FB. People see posts that they are configured to see and believe they are allowed to comment bc that is what FB is. Unfriend the person and/ or block them if you don't want them to comment on your posts. But it's not really "meddling" to comment an opinion on a FB post, even if it's not very nice, so you don't have to worry about it continuing if you take away the medium.
posted by rainy day girl at 8:47 PM on April 11
posted by rainy day girl at 8:47 PM on April 11
Response by poster: Thank you so much, everyone. Blocking has been done!
I'm starting to learn to trust the hubby's instincts on these kinds of these things. It's been a very long road to get there, but it is common sense at the end of the day.
I hadn't blocked the b***h on fb before because she A) seemed like a genuinely nice person who wouldn't meddle B) she doesn't post/comment much with anyone on fb and therefore C) never engaged with me on fb... until today. Boy, did we all learn a lot about her right there!
It would be cathartic to break/burn/bury something. Working on that. The only physical object that MIL ever gave me was a tiny angel-shaped piece of chocolate she brought back from Germany. I threw it away a long time ago. If I still had that thing, I'd toss it on the floor and stomp on it! :D As it turned out, I did a lot of what I call "frustration vacuuming" today. It doesn't solve everything, but hey, my floors are clean! It felt good.
The thing about the flying monkeys is absolutely 100% spot-on. It's hard to believe that people in their sunset years engage in behaviour like this, but apparently being a flying monkey is a highly sought after position for some retirees with nothing better to do.
As always, you are all so amazing. Thanks again.
posted by chatelaine at 10:26 PM on April 11 [8 favorites]
I'm starting to learn to trust the hubby's instincts on these kinds of these things. It's been a very long road to get there, but it is common sense at the end of the day.
I hadn't blocked the b***h on fb before because she A) seemed like a genuinely nice person who wouldn't meddle B) she doesn't post/comment much with anyone on fb and therefore C) never engaged with me on fb... until today. Boy, did we all learn a lot about her right there!
It would be cathartic to break/burn/bury something. Working on that. The only physical object that MIL ever gave me was a tiny angel-shaped piece of chocolate she brought back from Germany. I threw it away a long time ago. If I still had that thing, I'd toss it on the floor and stomp on it! :D As it turned out, I did a lot of what I call "frustration vacuuming" today. It doesn't solve everything, but hey, my floors are clean! It felt good.
The thing about the flying monkeys is absolutely 100% spot-on. It's hard to believe that people in their sunset years engage in behaviour like this, but apparently being a flying monkey is a highly sought after position for some retirees with nothing better to do.
As always, you are all so amazing. Thanks again.
posted by chatelaine at 10:26 PM on April 11 [8 favorites]
It's hard to believe that people in their sunset years engage in behaviour like this
I know, right? What they fuck they think they're trying to achieve is one of life's abiding mysteries.
I have often wished that there were some way to convince these people that repeatedly punching themselves in the head is doing nothing for them, but for too many there just isn't. It's genuinely sad.
posted by flabdablet at 1:55 AM on April 12 [2 favorites]
I know, right? What they fuck they think they're trying to achieve is one of life's abiding mysteries.
I have often wished that there were some way to convince these people that repeatedly punching themselves in the head is doing nothing for them, but for too many there just isn't. It's genuinely sad.
posted by flabdablet at 1:55 AM on April 12 [2 favorites]
People are going to believe all sorts of wrong things about you, and for your own peace, you have to let them.
Trying to control the narrative just brings drama and pain.
This friend has been manipulated by MIL, as well as by a social expectation that younger generations must perform fealty, no matter the cost to themselves.
So instead of seeing these people as meddlers, I see them as people who were meddled with. They're patsies, worthy of a passing moment of my pity and nothing more.
posted by champers at 2:43 AM on April 12 [1 favorite]
Trying to control the narrative just brings drama and pain.
This friend has been manipulated by MIL, as well as by a social expectation that younger generations must perform fealty, no matter the cost to themselves.
So instead of seeing these people as meddlers, I see them as people who were meddled with. They're patsies, worthy of a passing moment of my pity and nothing more.
posted by champers at 2:43 AM on April 12 [1 favorite]
I struggle with feeling like if I don't say my piece, I'm not being true to myself somehow.
There's nothing that says that you need to say your piece to her specifically. I've done a ton of "write a letter but don't send it" things in my journals over the years.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 5:09 AM on April 12
There's nothing that says that you need to say your piece to her specifically. I've done a ton of "write a letter but don't send it" things in my journals over the years.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 5:09 AM on April 12
I've not read everyone's too triggering - but what I think you need is a ceremonial ritual to put all this to bed (because as you've seen even cutting off MIL leaves you with flying monkeys - they won't rest, so this is to put YOU at rest so you can IGNORE THEM). What I did: wrote a big long letter to my [bad person] literally "thanks for nothing you piece of shit etc etc", went somewhere meaningful to me, and did a burning ceremony.
Good luck! Try reddit's raised by borderlines to find peer support of people who really GET how hard it all is.
posted by london explorer girl at 7:37 AM on April 12 [2 favorites]
Good luck! Try reddit's raised by borderlines to find peer support of people who really GET how hard it all is.
posted by london explorer girl at 7:37 AM on April 12 [2 favorites]
I have this annoying drive to say my piece to MIL's friend ... I struggle with feeling like if I don't say my piece, I'm not being true to myself somehow. I just want to put all this to bed for good
This right here is what you need to confront and deal with in yourself, on your own.
You know this, but: you will never, ever, ever, ever win that argument, get the recognition, put it all to bed. You will never get that from a narcissist. And they will always find another way to troll you back onto their stage. All you can do is not supply the counterpart of the drama that she expects from you. The only way to avoid drama is to deprive it of your oxygen.
The way to deprive it of your oxygen is to find some way to not feel like you need to say your piece. Realize that being true to yourself means walking away, not engaging. Find another way to feel, other than "I need to respond to that". Redirect your attention and get what you need another way.
It sounds like you're most of the way there. Keep going.
posted by Dashy at 8:23 AM on April 12
This right here is what you need to confront and deal with in yourself, on your own.
You know this, but: you will never, ever, ever, ever win that argument, get the recognition, put it all to bed. You will never get that from a narcissist. And they will always find another way to troll you back onto their stage. All you can do is not supply the counterpart of the drama that she expects from you. The only way to avoid drama is to deprive it of your oxygen.
The way to deprive it of your oxygen is to find some way to not feel like you need to say your piece. Realize that being true to yourself means walking away, not engaging. Find another way to feel, other than "I need to respond to that". Redirect your attention and get what you need another way.
It sounds like you're most of the way there. Keep going.
posted by Dashy at 8:23 AM on April 12
The friend is a lost cause. She’s an extension of MIL (but worse, because it’s not even her own drama she’s participating in. Pathetic. Get a life.)
Anything you say can and will be used against you to fuel the false narrative MIL will never let go of, and only build upon. Defending yourself will not work, it will just get added to MIL’s Big Book of Why Chatelaine Sucks and I Rule.
posted by kapers at 10:36 AM on April 12 [2 favorites]
Anything you say can and will be used against you to fuel the false narrative MIL will never let go of, and only build upon. Defending yourself will not work, it will just get added to MIL’s Big Book of Why Chatelaine Sucks and I Rule.
posted by kapers at 10:36 AM on April 12 [2 favorites]
I struggle with feeling like if I don't say my piece, I'm not being true to myself somehow.
I get this too and I think it's a lizard-brain primal thing: someone hurt you and you want to hit back.
posted by rhizome at 12:26 PM on April 12 [1 favorite]
Best answer: Block your friend, who is also a friend of your MIL.
She has chosen to take a side which has you cast in the role of a bad guy. There is no point having any contact with someone who would do that. She just outed herself as someone whose judgment is bad, and who lacks empathy, sense and social skills. Don't unfriend her, just block her so as to avoid being the recipient of any more proxy attacks from your mother in law.
You can even unblock her after a month or so, if you feel she has been a good enough friend that you should give her a second chance. But the fact that she said what she did out of the blue and without getting your perspective on this indicates that she thinks you are a bad person which means it's not much of a friendship.
Right now is REALLY not the time for you to be negotiating boundaries with frenemies. You need support and care and encouragement, not interactions with someone looking for a vulnerable spot to attack you, and spouting false concern.
How does keeping your friend in your active friend list benefit you? And how would it benefit her? Discussing it would result in more hurt feelings and anger and shame all around. Backing off is more likely to clue her in to the fact that she was gratuitously hurtful than speaking up and putting her on the defensive will. If you ever want to talk to her again, don't say anything thing until it no longer triggers you to think of what she wrote.
Keep in mind that narcissists think it's fair to say the most horrible things about the people that are currently upsetting them, and escape any consequences from saying it because they didn't say it to your face. The fact is that your mother in law has probably said many, many horrible things about you and your husband, worse things than you imagine, and the reason you don't know about it is that most of the people she has said them to have just wished she would shut up and seen through her.
Unfortunately that's just one of the things Narcissistic people do - they create even more extreme narratives about how they are victims and you are a villain when there is no one who was present to contradict them. Your MIL is doing the DARVO thing, and anyone who was present at the family gathering would recognize that she's reversing the roles. Your friend, presumably, was not at the gathering and has been shocked to hear how malicious you are being. She's now invested in believing it, and if you call her out on it, she will most likely double down. For her protection, you want to avoid doing anything that will make her double down, because then she'll be much more enmeshed in your MIL's lies.
It feels wrong not to try to defend yourself when you are being slandered. It feels like the truth should be believed and it's just a matter of saying so. Unfortunately chasing a slander with a denial keeps the drama and gossip going. Anyone who would believe lies about you is someone who was predisposed to think badly of you without any evidence. Maybe your friend is just dumb. Decent people don't snipe at you when you are in crisis; at best her judgement is badly off. You've just discovered this friend is not a safe person and yet you want to get back to what you had and valued Unfortunately you can't get it back. Maybe she is just misguided and will see through your mother-in-law if you don't keep the drama going. She definitely won't see through MIL if you contact her and explain all the facts - your mother in law has probably already told her what you are going to say "She's going to claim that my son has always had problems with me! She's going to say I was horrid to her!" so if you say that to her it will feel like confirmation that your MIL's lies are the truth.
If you DO talk to her, I'd avoid the entire subject and go with. "Are you okay? Just worried about you," and when she tells you what your mother in law said, just nod and say, "Yeah, she says things like that." Flat out denials are the wrong way to go, and will only give your mother in law exactly what she is looking for. The proxy attack will have been entirely successful and your friend will go away saying, "Chatelaine was horrid to MIL and to me!"
posted by Jane the Brown at 12:59 PM on April 12 [3 favorites]
She has chosen to take a side which has you cast in the role of a bad guy. There is no point having any contact with someone who would do that. She just outed herself as someone whose judgment is bad, and who lacks empathy, sense and social skills. Don't unfriend her, just block her so as to avoid being the recipient of any more proxy attacks from your mother in law.
You can even unblock her after a month or so, if you feel she has been a good enough friend that you should give her a second chance. But the fact that she said what she did out of the blue and without getting your perspective on this indicates that she thinks you are a bad person which means it's not much of a friendship.
Right now is REALLY not the time for you to be negotiating boundaries with frenemies. You need support and care and encouragement, not interactions with someone looking for a vulnerable spot to attack you, and spouting false concern.
How does keeping your friend in your active friend list benefit you? And how would it benefit her? Discussing it would result in more hurt feelings and anger and shame all around. Backing off is more likely to clue her in to the fact that she was gratuitously hurtful than speaking up and putting her on the defensive will. If you ever want to talk to her again, don't say anything thing until it no longer triggers you to think of what she wrote.
Keep in mind that narcissists think it's fair to say the most horrible things about the people that are currently upsetting them, and escape any consequences from saying it because they didn't say it to your face. The fact is that your mother in law has probably said many, many horrible things about you and your husband, worse things than you imagine, and the reason you don't know about it is that most of the people she has said them to have just wished she would shut up and seen through her.
Unfortunately that's just one of the things Narcissistic people do - they create even more extreme narratives about how they are victims and you are a villain when there is no one who was present to contradict them. Your MIL is doing the DARVO thing, and anyone who was present at the family gathering would recognize that she's reversing the roles. Your friend, presumably, was not at the gathering and has been shocked to hear how malicious you are being. She's now invested in believing it, and if you call her out on it, she will most likely double down. For her protection, you want to avoid doing anything that will make her double down, because then she'll be much more enmeshed in your MIL's lies.
It feels wrong not to try to defend yourself when you are being slandered. It feels like the truth should be believed and it's just a matter of saying so. Unfortunately chasing a slander with a denial keeps the drama and gossip going. Anyone who would believe lies about you is someone who was predisposed to think badly of you without any evidence. Maybe your friend is just dumb. Decent people don't snipe at you when you are in crisis; at best her judgement is badly off. You've just discovered this friend is not a safe person and yet you want to get back to what you had and valued Unfortunately you can't get it back. Maybe she is just misguided and will see through your mother-in-law if you don't keep the drama going. She definitely won't see through MIL if you contact her and explain all the facts - your mother in law has probably already told her what you are going to say "She's going to claim that my son has always had problems with me! She's going to say I was horrid to her!" so if you say that to her it will feel like confirmation that your MIL's lies are the truth.
If you DO talk to her, I'd avoid the entire subject and go with. "Are you okay? Just worried about you," and when she tells you what your mother in law said, just nod and say, "Yeah, she says things like that." Flat out denials are the wrong way to go, and will only give your mother in law exactly what she is looking for. The proxy attack will have been entirely successful and your friend will go away saying, "Chatelaine was horrid to MIL and to me!"
posted by Jane the Brown at 12:59 PM on April 12 [3 favorites]
Perhaps look at it this way:
Even if your MIL hadn't been toxic, responding to someone expressing concern about their injured, ailing parents with "Hey what about your in-laws???" is EXTREMELY inappropriate and grounds for dropping somone forever.
So, this woman already showed her entire ass to your whole Friends list. She has shown herself to be more uninformed, officious and foolish than words could describe in any response you might write. Her behaviour has disgraced both her and MIL, and the disgrace is perfect. Responding would only mar the perfection. Hit "block" like an artist signing a masterpiece.
posted by Pallas Athena at 6:07 PM on April 27 [1 favorite]
Even if your MIL hadn't been toxic, responding to someone expressing concern about their injured, ailing parents with "Hey what about your in-laws???" is EXTREMELY inappropriate and grounds for dropping somone forever.
So, this woman already showed her entire ass to your whole Friends list. She has shown herself to be more uninformed, officious and foolish than words could describe in any response you might write. Her behaviour has disgraced both her and MIL, and the disgrace is perfect. Responding would only mar the perfection. Hit "block" like an artist signing a masterpiece.
posted by Pallas Athena at 6:07 PM on April 27 [1 favorite]
You are not logged in, either login or create an account to post comments
posted by JanetLand at 1:22 PM on April 11 [36 favorites]