Dear husband sort of surprised me, should I have reacted differently?

March 28, 2024 1:37 PM

My husband's boss, "John," is retiring this week. The two of them have worked together for several years.

I guess this is an "Am I the Asshole" type of question.

The working relationship between my husband and John has sometimes been rocky, but overall, the guy has been an excellent manager and my husband is bummed that he's leaving. The remaining bosses are pretty awful (new management doesn't understand the business and doesn't care to learn about it). It's been a sad week--because of John leaving , and a stressful move we're making. John is also one of my own former bosses and mentors, and I like him a lot.

So dear hubby called me up to let me know they had a meeting in John's honor, but when people were asked to stand up and say something about John, my husband froze and didn't make any remarks. He was recently promoted to John's position, and this would have been a good time to mention--oh, I don't know, gratitude for being recommended for the position, or well-wishes on John's much-deserved retirement, or just about any number of things.

I was stunned by what my husband told me, and--what bothers me the most--suddenly extremely angry. I'm not an angry person. I tend to turn things inward rather than act out. Most of the time that tendency has served me well--socially, anyway, if not so much in terms of my mental health.

So my shock and dismay must have come out in my voice, and my hubby is worried now that he did the wrong thing. He's convinced now that he hurt John's feelings and he feels really bad about this. And now I feel bad that I've made him feel bad.

My husband told me he spoke with John afterward. He told John how much he appreciated him, and that he was grateful for the way John has trained him and tried to prepare him for what's coming as he assumes a new role. So that was nice.

Anyway, was I wrong to let my disappointment show? I don't know why this has got me so upset. I suppose I'm embarrassed. John and I have also worked together for years. I just feel humiliated by my husband's behavior--almost as if I'd failed to say a few kind words about John myself. I'm a contractor who isn't invited to meetings, but I could have gone in today with my husband and just sat in on the event and said some something nice. I'm sure no one would have objected. We live in another town and we don't have a second car--husband's schedule starts at two in the morning, otherwise I might have ridden in with him. In any case, I didn't think of it.

I guess my question is-- Are not my husband's feelings more important than whether or not John was hurt or disappointed by his behavior today? I live with my husband, I love him, and his emotions matter to me. John is a great guy, but I don't live with him. And this is not a thing I've done. I mean, technically I didn't do anything wrong myself. I don't have to take on any blame at all.

Question: do you think there's any way we could make it up to John? We're planning to give him a donut cake and a card tomorrow, which is officially his last day. And we want to stay in touch with him. I'd told my husband last week that I hoped we could take John out to lunch later on, when our move is finished and we'll be closer to where he lives.

I could use some advice about how to keep from letting this drive me crazy. I just feel really, really bad.

posted by cartoonella to Work & Money (40 answers total)

Question: do you think there's any way we could make it up to John?

I’m pretty sure this is bothering you way more than it’s bothering John. A cake and a card and a quick “I’m sorry, I came over unexpectedly tongue tied in the meeting yesterday and didn’t get to say how much I appreciate you.” and everything is 100% fine. John’s off to enjoy his retirement, he cares much less about this than you think he does.

As to why this is bothering you in a way that seems hugely disproportionate to the situation - I’m not sure any internet strangers can tell you that, because it seems for some reason to have hit a nerve so deep that you can’t even identify it yourself, so we’re definitely not going to be able to guess what it is.

A history of your husband not stepping up? A frustration with yourself for not stepping up? A general difficulty with change and the passage of time that’s making you feel this transition unusually painfully? Something totally different? We can’t tell you, but a therapist could probably help you work it out if you feel the need to.
posted by penguin pie at 1:45 PM on March 28 [42 favorites]

I think this is 99% explained by peoples' comfort with extemporaenous speaking in public. I mean, sure, when someone's longtime boss retires, on the one hand it is hard to believe that his replacement doesn't have a few words to say. I personally, love that sort of opportunity and would never pass it up. But there are a lot of folks who are terrified of speaking in public even when the words are 100% put down by someone else. Especially when it is a milestone occasion, I can see that be overwhelming to have to come up with your own thing to say. Totally, totally normal. If it were me mentoring (or I guess coaching in this case) I would suggest your husband attend toastmasters or a similar organization to build up the skills in a low-stakes environment.
posted by wnissen at 1:45 PM on March 28 [4 favorites]

Oh, wait - you’re making a stressful move? That sounds like a good candidate for why your emotions are all over the place.

Really, John is fine, you don’t have to worry about this.
posted by penguin pie at 1:47 PM on March 28 [12 favorites]

Your husband can simply send a thorough, heart-felt email to everyone publicly praising and thanking John for all John did for him, yadda yadda, and saying that he hopes that in his new position he'll be able to do half as well for everybody as John did. And anything else that he decides that he could have said at the meeting.
posted by JimN2TAW at 1:49 PM on March 28 [18 favorites]

Are not my husband's feelings more important than whether or not John was hurt or disappointed by his behavior today?

Well, ideally, yes. But we're messy humans and can't always be our best selves. Your job is not to find out whether YTA y/n but to figure out what's going on that has you spiralling over such a straightforward issue.

Like, what's the pattern here? Just throwing it out there, do you tend to get into anxiety spirals over social interactions? Are you a people pleaser? What does this whole John situation mean to you, what deeper feelings does it dredge up and does it echo something in your family of origin? That sort of thing.
posted by Omnomnom at 1:49 PM on March 28 [6 favorites]

Considering that your husband did express his appreciation to John privately, I think you are overinvested in this. I'm sure it would've been nicer if he'd said something at the meeting, but unless there was dead silence and nobody said anything, I doubt John was personally injured. People do freeze up suddenly when expected to speak in public!

Send John a nice card acknowledging his retirement if you want, but I would check any urge to discuss this further with your husband. (Any more, and you may raise concerns about your own motives.) I wouldn't try to analyze your psyche from one post, but can you think about whether this is bothering you for some other reason? Do you feel like your husband has fallen down on other responsibilities? Etc.
posted by praemunire at 1:49 PM on March 28 [5 favorites]

What an interesting reaction. A very important thing to internalize is that you cannot have the relationship between two people for them. It would probably have been great for your husband to be the kind of person who is great at extemporaneous speaking and jumped up and made a great toast. However, it would have also been great for someone to prepare that groundwork ahead of time because the people that can do that are actually rare and it’s most like that most folks can’t just jump up in front of a crowd and say something moving. You know? Your husband did one even better though and made sincere comments in person. That’s actually more memorable and touching to most people. Why is it so important to you that this person be honored in a specific way by your husband? What is the loss here for you? Are you wishing you had the kind of husband who can just jump up and say something salient and meaningful off the cuff? Why do you feel like this is a reflection of you?

Maybe if you can think this through, you can let it go. You are free to recognize John and say whatever you like to him at this change in his career but…that’s on you.
posted by amanda at 1:49 PM on March 28 [9 favorites]

I can't understand why you're so upset about this or why you think there's anything that needs to happen to make anything up to John. Your husband's actions don't reflect on you in any way here, and even if they did, were incredibly minor. This is not a "shock, dismay, anger" situation, it's a "oh man, freezing up like that is the worst and I'm sorry it happened to you, but I'm glad you could talk to him later! I should really drop him a note myself since I remember him so fondly" thing. I can't imagine John is losing any sleep over this at all.

It's truly okay to just write a nice note in the card, invite John out to lunch after the move as planned, and maybe take this as a sign that you have a lot going on and it's coming out in weird ways.
posted by Stacey at 1:50 PM on March 28 [18 favorites]

You know public speaking is extremely hard for most people, correct? He did the right thing after he was not on the spot. I think you owe him an apology for getting so angry. And then let it go. Everything sounds like it went fine and there's nothing left to do work wise.
posted by tiny frying pan at 1:53 PM on March 28 [8 favorites]

And we want to stay in touch with him. I'd told my husband last week that I hoped we could take John out to lunch later on, when our move is finished and we'll be closer to where he lives.

Ask your husband to tell John both those things. (Maybe invite him over for dinner instead of lunch.)

Your husband can simply send a thorough, heart-felt email to everyone publicly praising and thanking John for all John did for him, yadda yadda, and saying that he hopes that in his new position he'll be able to do half as well for everybody as John did.

That sounds like a classy move.


Definitely might be worth thinking sometime about which buttons all this has hit for you. I don't think the dismay itself is particularly odd, but feeling it so strongly seems unusual and probably connected to other things.
posted by trig at 1:57 PM on March 28 [1 favorite]

To me, this seemed the key: "I don't know why this has got me so upset. I suppose I'm embarrassed. John and I have also worked together for years. I just feel humiliated by my husband's behavior--almost as if I'd failed to say a few kind words about John myself."

It sounds like your disappointment is somewhat based on a perception that your husband's actions were a proxy for you. That you believe you would have spoke up and said a few things, and felt embarrassed if you didn't. But, you are not the same person.

My advice would be to separate yourself from your husband in this scenario. You found out that someone you worked with for years is retiring. What do you want to do in response? Do that. Your husband should do the same. To the extent that overlaps, great, do it together.

With respect to what your husband has done so far, my advice would be to support your husband in dealing with how he is feeling about how he responded initially and thereafter. I doubt there is one "true and correct" answer to any of it, anyways.
posted by bruinfan at 1:59 PM on March 28 [7 favorites]

This sounds a little codependent to me. Is that useful to consider at all, or something that's already on your radar?
posted by wormtales at 2:27 PM on March 28

So your husband bailed on off-the-cuff public speaking, like roughly 77% of humanity would have done. You had a momentary feeling about it which... came out in your tone of voice? There's no evidence that the guy's who's leaving was bothered by anything that happened; for all anybody knows he might have been inwardly wishing everybody would stop making a fuss about his departure. Nobody got yelled at, nobody got slapped, nobody went out drinking and woke up someplace they shouldn't have... not to belittle your feelings about this, but it sounds like a non-event to me. I would at least consider the possibility that nothing actually happened, and everybody can safely forget the whole thing.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 2:34 PM on March 28 [6 favorites]

You just had a big feeling about an awkward moment, one that feels extremely high-stakes to you because...you know, roof over head, going hungry in a ditch etc etc. We overidentify with our work, because capitalism.

Your husband brain-farted, I'd have cringed a little on his behalf if I'd been in the room but I myself would have probably stammered out something sounding as ill-prepared as it was.

It's fine, just tell your husband you had a weird panic about it in the moment - just like he did, I'm guessing! - and it's fine and all is well.
posted by Lyn Never at 2:43 PM on March 28 [3 favorites]

Your husband's schedule starts at 2 a.m., it sounds like things are about to get more stressful at work, and you're going through a move that has been challenging. It sounds like you're at a point where emotional control is hard and you're going to have unusual reactions to things.

I've had unexpected negative reactions on my partner before when I've been stressed and it feels lousy. But I apologize sincerely, acknowledge that that's not how I want to behave, and try to figure out what's going on with myself. And try to cut myself some slack for being an imperfect human being, while not letting disproportionate reactions become a pattern.

In terms of why you've had this reaction, what you've described of your situation is one where I would be feeling very uneasy with the extent of variables outside my control. So I wonder if your response could be about struggling with one more thing not going to plan and compensating by over-mananging the response? I don't see anything that needs making up for, but in addition to the kind gestures you'd already planned, the email JimN2TAW suggested would be gracious without being excessive.
posted by EvaDestruction at 2:43 PM on March 28 [4 favorites]

There's just so much and he didn't know where to start.
posted by rhizome at 3:17 PM on March 28 [1 favorite]

I just feel humiliated by my husband's behavior--almost as if I'd failed to say a few kind words about John myself. I'm a contractor who isn't invited to meetings, but I could have gone in today with my husband and just sat in on the event and said some something nice.

Just wondering if you’re not subconsciously angry/envious/{some other unpleasant emotion} at your status as a “contractor who isn’t invited to meetings” as compared to your husband, an employee who is invited to meetings (and apparently screwed it up unlike you would’ve done). Could that be where this disproportionate anger/upset is coming from?
posted by flamk at 3:24 PM on March 28 [6 favorites]

Emotions aren't right or wrong, they just happen. That said, the intensity of your feeling here is very surprising to me. Is it...

Vicarious embarrassment? Like, if you'd been in your husband's shoes and froze up, you'd be so mad at yourself, you don't know how you'd live it down. It's such an intensely unpleasant feeling, you get upset just thinking about it.

Misdirected frustration with your husband and/or employer? You weren't in the meeting, because your role is typically excluded from meetings, and your husband has access to those meetings but made this gaffe.

Something else??

Because your husband essentially had a moment of stage fright, missed a chance to publicly toast his departing boss, felt bad about possibly giving the boss the wrong impression, spoke to his boss about it, and is having lingering feelings of embarrassment. You had a big emotional reaction (anger/disgust) to his moment of freezing up, and then an even bigger emotional reaction (regret/guilt) to his feelings about your initial reaction. I think you're getting distracted with this question of whose feelings matter more--that's not a question you need to answer. No one's feelings matter more, or less. Your feeling of anger matters, and you don't need to justify it (feeling irrationally angry is a normal human experience), and you can figure out how to cope with it. Your husband's feelings of embarrassment and hurt matter, and he can figure out how cope with them. Your husband's boss's feelings--whatever they are--matter, and he can figure out how to cope with them, even if he feels sad or insulted by your husband's awkward moment. Being loyal to your husband doesn't require you to stuff down any feelings you have that might be hard for him in some way. If you can't hide your shock, disappointment, or bafflement about something your husband does, that's ok, and if he feels something when he sees that look on your face, that's ok, too.
posted by theotherdurassister at 3:27 PM on March 28 [1 favorite]

Does your husband normally speak up publicly, without much notice (which can be so much harder than preparing for weeks)? Does he usually shy away from public speaking, even among friends/coworkers? For me personally, I would intentionally not say anything in his place, and save it all for later in private (partly my personality, partly I don't want any attention afterward, akin to everyone complimenting a best man after a wedding reception speech, and have it all on my boss instead). In that regard, there is no right or wrong for how he handled it.
posted by Meldanthral at 3:30 PM on March 28 [1 favorite]

I'll second the "this is bother you way more than it's bothering John" and the advice to go ahead and do whatever nice thing you'd have done anyway even if this meeting that you weren't at hadn't even happened.

Since a couple of people offered suggestions of things that might have triggered your emotional reaction, I wanted to offer another for you to parse...

Since it's specifically your husband not speaking up with his appreciation and public acknowledgement of his impact, is it possible that at some point, you feel your husband has not publicly expressed his appreciation for you when he should have? And so you might be feeling sort of a double impact, both for yourself and on John's behalf?
posted by stormyteal at 3:52 PM on March 28 [1 favorite]

What happened to your husband has happened to me at least once but maybe three times (depending on how many of these you would have felt I was obligated to speak at). And I'm pretty good with public speaking. If you don't plan ahead it's really easy to freeze up, plus it's presented as optional, plus there's no set order so you can think "I'll speak after the next person" or "I should let one more person speak while I'm gathering my thoughts" but then the MC ends things abruptly. Having been through a gazillion of these, my sense is that the only person truly obligated to say something is the person's supervisor. If they plus another couple people spoke, then it's fine.

To me your response feels disproportionate and it is enough that your husband spoke with John later to express his appreciation to him directly. (Unless the situation was really such that it appeared nobody was speaking for him, in which case then yes, maybe a group email makes sense.)

I don't know what was triggered in you ... did you overly identify with what John may have felt if NObody stepped up? (Was that even the case?) Do you feel like he was supposed to speak on behalf of you both and now you feel like you have appreciation that didn't get expressed? I would do a little soul searching and then once you figure out a non blaming way to express what's going on for you, apologize/explain to your husband.
posted by slidell at 4:09 PM on March 28 [1 favorite]

I wonder if John's feelings about your welfare are as important to him as your feelings about John's welfare are.
posted by SageTrail at 4:45 PM on March 28 [1 favorite]

You poor darling, I'm sorry. You felt disappointed you weren't there to say what you felt about John, and the disappointment and frustration were momentarily overwhelming and came out as anger at your husband. Your blameless husband, who was also at the crucial moment overwhelmed with emotion to the point where he couldn't speak. And now you feel terrible for both of them and bad about yourself. It sounds awful, and I'm sorry.

The thing is, though, it all points to the two of you being very good people, people with a debt of gratitude that feels at once essential to pay and too big to pay. You are a good person, your husband is a good person, and John is a good person whom you both esteem and who clearly cares for you two, as well. It's the situation that is terrible, not any of the people, and the terrible situation absolutely warrants strong emotion. Grief, essentially, over a work situation that has been fulfilling and mutually beneficial and now looks likely to become frustrating and scary. It's just difficult in the moment to do the exact right thing with strong emotions, or even know what they are, sometimes.

There is nothing to apologize to John for. I don't know what a donut cake is, but it sounds amazing and he's lucky to have friends like you to think of a thing like that. You guys should do several similarly nice things for yourselves: neither of you has done anything wrong and you're going through a lot of stress right now.
posted by Don Pepino at 4:47 PM on March 28 [4 favorites]

I am going to guess that this isn't even a thing to John. Some folks at the meeting said some nice things, so there was no obligation from your husband to say something, and yes, it can be hard to speak off the cuff. And there's nothing to make up, certainly not by you. You will only make it a thing if you keep trying to bring this up to John. You all didn't leave him at the altar, you know? Also, the guy is retiring. This is something to celebrate with him! Don't make it about you, especially since you weren't even there.

It might be worth figuring out why you had such a strong reaction. I do think you might owe your husband an apology. It sounds like you maybe had a combination of a few things come up, especially some sadness or resentment at not being included in a meeting that was a farewell to an important mentor for you. Add in sadness that he's leaving and your concerns about the new owners, and that's a lot. That doesn't mean your feelings were wrong, but it sounds like you scolded your husband about this, and I don't think that's great.

Are you also generally frustrated with your husband, perhaps including how he's managed his relationship with John? Are you jealous of his opportunities versus your own? Those are just some guesses.

You don't owe us an answer to this, but I'd also say to look deep within yourself and think about your own feelings towards John. Did you have ever strong feelings for him as a mentor, or perhaps a crush? Be very honest with yourself about this. If, deep down, you can see that you ever had feelings for John that went even a touch beyond professional, even if only fleeting, then I think there's a case that some of those emotions are playing out now. If that is the case, then just accept you might be having some strong and weird reactions right now, but try very hard not to continue to interact with John with or without your husband. If you're having strong emotions about John and negative feelings towards your husband, I don't think it'll serve you well to spend time in a group of three.
posted by bluedaisy at 5:04 PM on March 28 [1 favorite]

Not specifically related to this, but one really important thing I've been thinking about lately: sometimes I have very strong and unhappy feelings about something, but that doesn't mean something is wrong or something needs to be fixed.

That doesn't mean the feelings are wrong either. Sometimes it means I need to sit with and observe and think about my VERY BIG FEELINGS but also know that doesn't mean I need to take action.
posted by bluedaisy at 5:07 PM on March 28 [14 favorites]

Oh you poor dear. This is an unusual reaction, but if this kind of etiquette is important to you (and it sounds like it is), then you may be more scandalized by your husband's faux pas than anyone else would expect. Your feelings are worth attending to, though, not ignoring.

You're right that public acknowledgement is important, but so is giving advance notice for things like this so that thoughtful people -- those for whom an off-the-cuff "real team player" or "was a good mentor" remark feel so inadequate as to be insulting -- have the time they require to prepare something heartfelt, true, and specific. If you want to blame anyone, blame the zeitgeist of not bothering to plan these things well and not bothering to allow people to rise to the occasion.

If your husband is the thoughtful type, that's really wonderful for you. It is possible to be both thoughtful and extemporaneously brilliant, but it would take practice.

I hope you can find words to tell your husband that your reaction, while genuine and true to your value system, was misplaced, and that you empathize with his own feelings of sadness or even shame at not speaking up when the party pointer pointed to him.

As for your own feelings of poignancy at John's retirement, this is a wonderful opportunity to write a letter expressing those, and perhaps marking down some especially good moments you remember. This will be an excellent gift to him, and to his family members who may wonder what his work life has been like, and who may not realize all the ways John has given to his work friends.

Thank you so much for taking the time to care about this important milestone, and for caring about your husbands feelings and your own place in the world enough to spend time asking this question.
posted by amtho at 5:43 PM on March 28 [3 favorites]

If tomorrow is his last day, it's another nice moment to say something and a second chance for your husband if he feels he wants to say something public. You could go in, and say something too!
posted by nouvelle-personne at 6:07 PM on March 28

Reading what you wrote, you come across as a very empathetic person. That's good! You are also in a very stressful situation (moving!) which can just put all emotions on the surface. You are also close with John and couldn't be there. You also feel bad that your reaction made your husband upset.

Your reaction is your reaction. You couldn't help it in the moment. That happens! I don't think anyone did anything wrong here.

Maybe talk it over with your husband in an honest and vulnerable way. But I think everything is fine here, honestly.

I think a lot of people don't know what to say in the moment. I'm the same! And it's not that I don't care about people but I do feel like sometimes in work situations, it's hard to let my guard down even with coworkers I get along with. So maybe that was a factor here for your husband. It's OK to feel like "well, I would've done something different at the time" but that's you and you're a separate person.

But yes, reach out to John once things have settled in your life. You're going to be OK just by the fact you asked about this.
posted by edencosmic at 6:16 PM on March 28

John is devastated by this clearly deliberate, insulting "omission." Now, rather than coasting into a carefree, relaxing, and fulfilling retirement, he is turning into a bitter and resentful old man who will age rapidly while obsessing over this slight.

His health will deteriorate, and all his family and friends will be alienated from him, as all he ever wants to talk about is why, WHY, WHY, WHY didn't Mr. Cartoonella, a man who he *thought* was a friend say even a few kind words???

/obv I'm joking. Everything is fine! People make mistakes, don't magnify them to be bigger than they are . Hug your husband and let it go.
posted by jasper411 at 6:22 PM on March 28 [2 favorites]

I think you're going to look back at this situation and realize that it was not about your partner failing to make a public speech at a retirement party.

Basically I don't think this incident is over yet. If you want to do right by your husband I think it would be worth your time to really sit with this and figure out what's going on for you.

I'm just a random stranger on the internet but that's how it feels to me.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 8:45 PM on March 28 [2 favorites]

Is it possible that the reason this upset you so much

is because you, yourself, are feeling unappreciated or underappreciated by your husband for all that you do

you, yourself are feeling underthanked or unthanked by your husband for all that you do

eg it's not really about the relationship between husband and boss, it's about the relationship between husband and you
posted by chariot pulled by cassowaries at 11:22 PM on March 28

I was stunned by what my husband told me, and--what bothers me the most--suddenly extremely angry. I'm not an angry person. I tend to turn things inward rather than act out.

You were surprised at noticing your own anger. Anger is often a response to perceived unfairness. Maybe it would be helpful to you to think about what some part of you is perceiving as unfair here (to you, and/or to John, and/or to your spouse, and/or maybe to others!)....

If you've been suppressing your own anger, it's probably good to at least know what you feel angry about. Anger can be a useful indicator that something's off-balance. When you first notice something you've been suppressing (desire, anger, sadness...) it can feel so strong and overwhelming, and yeah, maybe you'll make some missteps as you share yourself with your most intimate loved ones. But if you keep on acknowledging it (let it inform you but not control you), it'll be a useful advisor.

I could use some advice about how to keep from letting this drive me crazy. I just feel really, really bad.

Some of your past Ask questions indicate that you often have had a hard time with social anxiety at work, with ambiguous situations where you might have hurt someone's feelings, with feeling pressured or humiliated at work, and in circumstances where someone else kind of "goes off-script" (does something you really didn't expect, or that's very inappropriate for their role or their relationship with you) in a way that negatively affects you. I think all of those apply here. It might be worth going back and revisiting those threads and those memories, to see whether there are things you've been able to do that help you feel better.
posted by brainwane at 5:06 AM on March 29 [2 favorites]

Do you perhaps have a crush on John? Or maybe you see him as a father figure or a powerful authority figure whom you are trying to impress or ingratiate yourself to?

Not judging you, having strong and unexpected feelings towards someone who doesn't exactly fit into our lives in a way that corresponds to our strong feelings - that happens all the time to everyone. Doesn't make you weird in the least.

It can be very helpful to be aware that this is what's happening, though. Like, if right now you've become aware that your feelings for John are uncannily similar to how you felt about a celebrity crush when you were a teenager, for instance, then it makes perfect sense that you felt so acutely embarrassed about your husband's actions. It makes perfect sense why you're going so very overboard trying to show your appreciation for John now. It makes sense that your emotions are getting so unexpectedly involved. Right? And knowing it will also help you release yourself from this harsh self judgment, and maybe to have a quick laugh with your husband about how you've discovered the reason for your intensity in this situation.

I'm not saying you'll suddenly feel "normal" about John just by figuring this out. That's unlikely. I'm just saying, self awareness is powerful just by itself. It helps.
posted by MiraK at 5:31 AM on March 29 [1 favorite]

I was stunned by what my husband told me, and--what bothers me the most--suddenly extremely angry. I'm not an angry person. I tend to turn things inward rather than act out.

So are you reacting the way you would have if you'd done it yourself? If you made a minor or fixable social or professional gaffe, would you turn it onto days of self-loathing and laceration? Is your husband maybe more able to say, "Oh well," and move on?

Maybe this is me projecting my own issues onto you. I tend towards rumination and self-laceration while my partner is the king of "Oh well and move on". I have come to see that the second approach is really healthy and am envious of people for thom this is natural. But sometimes I think my partner could use a little self-reflection to avoid repeating mistakes and it can grind my gears when he calmly relates a story like that.

I do get the feeling that maybe you feel a little too responsible in this case. Like, wondering what the two of you can do to fix things. Maybe there's nothing ot fix, or if there is, it's between the two of them.
posted by BibiRose at 6:17 AM on March 29 [1 favorite]

eg it's not really about the relationship between husband and boss, it's about the relationship between husband and you

or maybe a feeling of being underappreciated is the reason, but the lack of expressed appreciation is from other family members, or friends, or acquaintances, or employers or coworkers, etc.
posted by trig at 6:18 AM on March 29

Are not my husband's feelings more important than whether or not John was hurt or disappointed by his behavior today?

They should be. But maybe your husband is more comfortable speaking on John one-to-one, like he did.

To me, going back with your husband and giving John a cake and a card would look like you taking a naughty child back to an authority figure to apologize 'correctly.' I'm cringing. Sending John a card is a nice thought since you weren't there (and please don't slam your husband in the card), but bringing him a cake is weird.

And we want to stay in touch with him. I'd told my husband last week that I hoped we could take John out to lunch later on, when our move is finished and we'll be closer to where he lives.

Please don't plan on this. For all you know, your husband and you were part of John's work life only, and that's how he's going to keep it. I don't want you to be disappointed.
posted by kimberussell at 6:39 AM on March 29

Mod note: One comment removed, please keep your answers focused on answering the OP's question, thank you!
posted by Brandon Blatcher (staff) at 8:04 AM on March 29

I agree that your feeling is not something you can just control and may not have been able to prevent from coming across, but that your husband is closer to this situation than you.

For your second question, "how can we make this up to John", I think this framing and actions would be perpetuating the issue of you focusing on your feelings about this. Bearing in mind those initially angry feelings and that your husband interpreted them as meaning he did something bad (I don't agree), involving yourself in 'repairing' the situation risks continuing to make your husband feel bad about something which was not in his control and likely resulted from a combination of discomfort with public speaking and strong emotions.

I would explain to your husband that you had an unexpected feeling, you don't feel that he did something wrong or disrespectful or whatever, and apologize.
posted by lookoutbelow at 8:22 AM on March 29

Are not my husband's feelings more important than whether or not John was hurt or disappointed by his behavior today? I live with my husband, I love him, and his emotions matter to me. John is a great guy, but I don't live with him.

The distinction that I think is important is: your marriage #1; it is more important than your relationship with John. You would never damage your marriage for sake of someone else's feelings.

But, at times in life and depending on the state of your marriage, your husband's feelings may come second to someone else's. If another family member was direly ill, you would surely not feel bad standing up your husband for a dinner date. And if your marriage is a secure one, your husband has no reason to doubt your loyalty, it's ok to feel like John's stakes in this interaction, John's feeling about his importance in his career, were more important than your husband's (lack of) feelings about John's career.

And FWIW, I think you were right -- your husband did owe John the recognition, on both of your behalfs, and he dropped the ball.
posted by Dashy at 9:36 AM on March 29

Hm, I can related a little. I had an experience where my partner committed (what I perceive as) a social misstep and I got really angry about it. I never confronted him about it, but I sure was a pill while it was happening. For me, the cause was basically just projecting my social anxiety. I've always been prone to painful second hand embarrassment, so I guess the anger was from him "making me" feel that way by "messing up". What got me past it was reminding myself that we are different people who approach the world differently, and that is okay. And also that his behavior in this sort of scenario doesn't really reflect on me, so even if everyone agrees it was a huge fuck up (they don't, and it wasn't), I don't need to make it about myself. Your husband is a competent adult who has a history of managing his own relationships with other people, yeah?

I know "let it go" is not the most useful advice, but if you can intellectually release yourself from responsibility for your husband's behavior, emotional release might happen. Then if you're anything like me, you can start working through your embarrassment at yourself for overreacting. It's a process, man.
posted by umwelt at 9:44 AM on March 29 [1 favorite]