How did you navigate a serious threat to your long-term relationship?
March 26, 2024 3:20 AM Subscribe
If you've been through the break up (or near break-up) of a very long relationship/marriage that was not broken, but your partner fell in love with someone else... what advice would you give yourself at the beginning? What do you wish you knew?
I'm a 50 yo woman who has been in a 20 year relationship with my 66 yo husband. No kids, no previous marriages. It's always been pretty easy, happy and overall great. It's mellowed over the years, but we've had no bouts of infidelity or really even rough patches. We've been through eldercare and parents dying, lay-offs, moves and relocations, and big severe health challenges, always taking care of each other and coming out stronger. We are a great match in many ways, and turned each other on. I love him through and through for exactly who he is, and thought he was my person until the end.
We finally married two years ago (after a formalized state domestic partnership of 14 years), largely for legal and estate issues. He's really been avoidant about facing mortality... and estate planning attempts were never completed. So we got married as an easy way to make sure we were both protected if something happened. I pushed for that, and he was hesitant, but there was no ultimatum or anything on my part. We've always kept our money separate, but are very financially intertwined. We own some property together and separately. I've encouraged and helped him make several wise investments that put him in a great financial position (even when I couldn't take advantage of them myself). He's often had more capital, and I've had more income. I would say we've pretty equally contributed to our living situation. But he owns a couple of big assets outright in his name only... like the home we live in. Whereas I've paid for big renovations, ongoing maintenance, insurance, etc.
I recently found out that he is having a serious affair with a mutual friend that he has a shared venture with. This is a venture that I cheerleaded and supported because it relates to a very important aspect of his life that he'd been disconnected with for a while, and I was excited that he'd been able to find that joy again, and that he could do it with our friend who was super into the opportunity seemed ideal. This venture is not something I have any talent for... so it's nothing I could have ever partnered with him on anyway. The affair started about 18 months ago (right after we got married), rooted very much in the connection established by their work together. Emotional at first, becoming physical last year. She is also married, and I've just found out that she's separated from her husband. This affair coincided with an intensely challenging and stressful time for me professionally, and it has taken most of the past year to resolve. I was very distracted, working long hours and a bit disconnected from our day to day relationship... which is why it took me so long to realize what was happening. For what it's worth she's closer in age to him than I am.
My husband and I are generally very open and honest with each other. We've never had hard and fast ideas about "traditional relationships". I know that she fulfills a need in him that I simply can't, and that after 20 years the "sparkiness" can fade in a long-term relationship. I'm willing to open the marriage, as long as our relationship remains central. I'm just not a super jealous person (neither is he, btw). We've built a rich, beautiful and somewhat complex life together with many shared friends and communities, and we split our time between two locations every year. I am terrified and emotionally crushed at the thought of both losing him and this life we've built dissolving. I know he is in love with her, and that he also deeply loves me. We are still intimate and affectionate. He considers me his "home". He's very torn at the moment and deeply sorry for hurting me. Our discussions have been ongoing, very emotional, heartfelt and (I believe) honest. There's not a lot of anger or blame directed at each other. We are both human, and it's not a crime to fall in love with someone. And I was feeling somewhat hopeful about a path forward.
But I know that she wants a full-time relationship with him (through online DM's that tipped me off to the affair). And I accidentally (truly) found some notes/journaling he'd written to himself trying to work through this situation... and now everything feels so much more precarious. He's having a big sit down conversation with her this week.
So... Mefites who have been through this. I turn to you. What helped? What do you wish you had done at the beginning? Were there tools you found helpful in navigating a situation like this? I'm opening up to a friend this weekend. I've considered therapy, and we've mentioned couples counseling... but I'm honestly not sure what we'll get out of that given the work we are already doing. I'm also thinking of talking to a divorce attorney, just to understand the lay of the land (assets before marriage, joint assets, assets I've invested in but aren't in my name). I'm still hoping this will resolve in a way that leaves our relationship intact. But honestly... who the fuck knows. Throwaway email: nikkigrace84-mefi@yahoo.com
I'm a 50 yo woman who has been in a 20 year relationship with my 66 yo husband. No kids, no previous marriages. It's always been pretty easy, happy and overall great. It's mellowed over the years, but we've had no bouts of infidelity or really even rough patches. We've been through eldercare and parents dying, lay-offs, moves and relocations, and big severe health challenges, always taking care of each other and coming out stronger. We are a great match in many ways, and turned each other on. I love him through and through for exactly who he is, and thought he was my person until the end.
We finally married two years ago (after a formalized state domestic partnership of 14 years), largely for legal and estate issues. He's really been avoidant about facing mortality... and estate planning attempts were never completed. So we got married as an easy way to make sure we were both protected if something happened. I pushed for that, and he was hesitant, but there was no ultimatum or anything on my part. We've always kept our money separate, but are very financially intertwined. We own some property together and separately. I've encouraged and helped him make several wise investments that put him in a great financial position (even when I couldn't take advantage of them myself). He's often had more capital, and I've had more income. I would say we've pretty equally contributed to our living situation. But he owns a couple of big assets outright in his name only... like the home we live in. Whereas I've paid for big renovations, ongoing maintenance, insurance, etc.
I recently found out that he is having a serious affair with a mutual friend that he has a shared venture with. This is a venture that I cheerleaded and supported because it relates to a very important aspect of his life that he'd been disconnected with for a while, and I was excited that he'd been able to find that joy again, and that he could do it with our friend who was super into the opportunity seemed ideal. This venture is not something I have any talent for... so it's nothing I could have ever partnered with him on anyway. The affair started about 18 months ago (right after we got married), rooted very much in the connection established by their work together. Emotional at first, becoming physical last year. She is also married, and I've just found out that she's separated from her husband. This affair coincided with an intensely challenging and stressful time for me professionally, and it has taken most of the past year to resolve. I was very distracted, working long hours and a bit disconnected from our day to day relationship... which is why it took me so long to realize what was happening. For what it's worth she's closer in age to him than I am.
My husband and I are generally very open and honest with each other. We've never had hard and fast ideas about "traditional relationships". I know that she fulfills a need in him that I simply can't, and that after 20 years the "sparkiness" can fade in a long-term relationship. I'm willing to open the marriage, as long as our relationship remains central. I'm just not a super jealous person (neither is he, btw). We've built a rich, beautiful and somewhat complex life together with many shared friends and communities, and we split our time between two locations every year. I am terrified and emotionally crushed at the thought of both losing him and this life we've built dissolving. I know he is in love with her, and that he also deeply loves me. We are still intimate and affectionate. He considers me his "home". He's very torn at the moment and deeply sorry for hurting me. Our discussions have been ongoing, very emotional, heartfelt and (I believe) honest. There's not a lot of anger or blame directed at each other. We are both human, and it's not a crime to fall in love with someone. And I was feeling somewhat hopeful about a path forward.
But I know that she wants a full-time relationship with him (through online DM's that tipped me off to the affair). And I accidentally (truly) found some notes/journaling he'd written to himself trying to work through this situation... and now everything feels so much more precarious. He's having a big sit down conversation with her this week.
So... Mefites who have been through this. I turn to you. What helped? What do you wish you had done at the beginning? Were there tools you found helpful in navigating a situation like this? I'm opening up to a friend this weekend. I've considered therapy, and we've mentioned couples counseling... but I'm honestly not sure what we'll get out of that given the work we are already doing. I'm also thinking of talking to a divorce attorney, just to understand the lay of the land (assets before marriage, joint assets, assets I've invested in but aren't in my name). I'm still hoping this will resolve in a way that leaves our relationship intact. But honestly... who the fuck knows. Throwaway email: nikkigrace84-mefi@yahoo.com
I heard Dan Savage talking about an experience quite like yours on his podcast a week or two ago. His analogy was around your partner buying a house without your knowledge. Obviously you'd like to have been fully involved in consideration of such a significant investment, but in this case they went ahead & did it without your being involved at all. OK, that's not great. But - whether or not you actually want to _live_ in this new house is maybe a separate question.
So, your husband has gone ahead & unilaterally opened your marriage. That sucks, because he didn't let you know about something happening that obviously has a huge impact on your life. But, there's maybe a world in which the open version of your marriage is one that you want to stay in.
Whether or not his new affair-partner wants to be part of a poly evolution of your newly opened marriage is a whole other question, though. Maybe she imagines herself in a monogamous relationship with your husband. It has to work for everyone equally, or it's not going to work for anyone.
posted by rd45 at 6:54 AM on March 26 [9 favorites]
So, your husband has gone ahead & unilaterally opened your marriage. That sucks, because he didn't let you know about something happening that obviously has a huge impact on your life. But, there's maybe a world in which the open version of your marriage is one that you want to stay in.
Whether or not his new affair-partner wants to be part of a poly evolution of your newly opened marriage is a whole other question, though. Maybe she imagines herself in a monogamous relationship with your husband. It has to work for everyone equally, or it's not going to work for anyone.
posted by rd45 at 6:54 AM on March 26 [9 favorites]
This is where you have to know you can't control another person, and get your own ducks in a row. Maybe you'll find a stable new relationship status and maybe not, but the thing YOU have to do is to become confident that you will be okay either way.
So:
- therapy is a great idea
- 100%, get your financials sorted out. Have a consult. Change the passwords to your personal accounts, if your husband has them, not because you think he would do something nefarious but because you've just learned you don't actually know him as well as you thought you did and it'll help you sleep better if you know the really bad horror stories aren't going to happen to you. Get whatever documentation of assets the divorce lawyer tells you to, for the same reason and for your possible future self's sake.
And, the work you're doing on the relationship is also important, the communication and honesty and connection are key to getting through this with SOMETHING intact. I hope that, whether you stay married or not or monogamous or not, you together can preserve something of the family-ness of your relationship that has gotten you through so much together.
posted by Lady Li at 7:00 AM on March 26 [6 favorites]
So:
- therapy is a great idea
- 100%, get your financials sorted out. Have a consult. Change the passwords to your personal accounts, if your husband has them, not because you think he would do something nefarious but because you've just learned you don't actually know him as well as you thought you did and it'll help you sleep better if you know the really bad horror stories aren't going to happen to you. Get whatever documentation of assets the divorce lawyer tells you to, for the same reason and for your possible future self's sake.
And, the work you're doing on the relationship is also important, the communication and honesty and connection are key to getting through this with SOMETHING intact. I hope that, whether you stay married or not or monogamous or not, you together can preserve something of the family-ness of your relationship that has gotten you through so much together.
posted by Lady Li at 7:00 AM on March 26 [6 favorites]
To the list above I would add:
- get tested for STDs
- consider getting your own therapist
I would be wary about the switch-to-polyamory-in-the-middle-of-an-affair thing. Your husband has already acted without truth and integrity. Falling in love with someone isn't an issue. For me, lying about it for 18 months could well be.
I would like to be more polyamorous than my husband and I are (we're monogamish) but my husband is not okay with that. When I talked to him about it early on, which was before I acted on anything (but feelings were definitely engaged), he took time to consider it. And it's not for him. Because he is my priority, we have structured everything around that. Because he heard me, we have an exception with constraints.
The main thing is, though -- for me to place our marriage at the centre, I had to actually place it at the centre, and communicate with him and ask him first.
posted by warriorqueen at 7:01 AM on March 26 [25 favorites]
- get tested for STDs
- consider getting your own therapist
I would be wary about the switch-to-polyamory-in-the-middle-of-an-affair thing. Your husband has already acted without truth and integrity. Falling in love with someone isn't an issue. For me, lying about it for 18 months could well be.
I would like to be more polyamorous than my husband and I are (we're monogamish) but my husband is not okay with that. When I talked to him about it early on, which was before I acted on anything (but feelings were definitely engaged), he took time to consider it. And it's not for him. Because he is my priority, we have structured everything around that. Because he heard me, we have an exception with constraints.
The main thing is, though -- for me to place our marriage at the centre, I had to actually place it at the centre, and communicate with him and ask him first.
posted by warriorqueen at 7:01 AM on March 26 [25 favorites]
He was hiding this from you, and trying to work it out on his own, for over a year - that's the real issue here. I would be highly skeptical about a future, poly or otherwise, with someone capable of doing this. Would he even be having this big sit down with the affair partner if you hadn't found out? Or would it have suited him perfectly to feel like he could run off to her anytime if he wanted with you none the wiser? I'm not sure it's possible to build a relationship of ethical non-monogamy from a place like this.
Ultimately, only you have your own back.
posted by Ardnamurchan at 7:12 AM on March 26 [12 favorites]
Ultimately, only you have your own back.
posted by Ardnamurchan at 7:12 AM on March 26 [12 favorites]
While I really don’t have great relationship advice for this, I will say this - get your finances and other things together with like you would if you were on your own now, and like you would if you had to protect them against wrongdoing. Someone mentioned changing passwords and such, and I would recommend that. You should also get a consult with a divorce attorney. That’s not because you’re immediately taking the first steps in a divorce, but because you want to know where you’re at if it does go that far. I’m advising these steps because if things go south in a hurry, you don’t want to scramble and play catch-up, and also because you need fewer barriers in the way if you do decide to end this. You’ve already had a massive, massive breach of trust here, and you have the right to decide how you go forward.
posted by azpenguin at 7:35 AM on March 26 [7 favorites]
posted by azpenguin at 7:35 AM on March 26 [7 favorites]
I'm so sorry. The best piece of advice I can give you is to proceed with the knowledge that a man having an affair can reframe their spouse as the enemy with astonishing rapidity. Get your financial affairs in order on the assumption that this will happen. Hopefully it won't. But any divorce attorney will tell you that previously kind, loving, trustworthy people frequently become almost unrecognizable to their spouses once this kind of thing is underway.
posted by HotToddy at 8:01 AM on March 26 [20 favorites]
posted by HotToddy at 8:01 AM on March 26 [20 favorites]
Yes, I would shore up your individual support system here while remaining open to possible ways forward as a couple. Definitely, definitely, definitely consult with a lawyer. I would find an individual therapist to help you figure out what you want out of this new phase of your relationship - I'm reading a lot of concern for how your spouse is feeling (which is a wonderful quality) and not getting as much of a sense of how you're feeling. You need to have your own back here every bit as much as you have your spouse's. I would hope for the best, emotionally, but prepare for the worst, logistically.
posted by superfluousm at 8:05 AM on March 26 [9 favorites]
posted by superfluousm at 8:05 AM on March 26 [9 favorites]
I will not feed into your desire to reframe his cheating as merely polyamory or regular ethical non-monogamy or some kind of iffy non-traditional relationship setup. To be clear, those are all valid relationship choices, but those are not the relationship choices you actually made. He cheated on you. That is what happened.
I get the sense that you're trying to spare yourself the pain of having to face the betrayal full on by reframing it like that, but I'm sorry, I don't think that does you any favors. This isn't polyamony. This isn't a nontraditional relationship choice. This isn't an open marriage. It is a cheating spouse. I'm sorry your husband of 20 years cheated on you. There is no excuse for what he did.
I hope, for your sake, that he chooses to stop cheating, make sincere apologies to you, and work hard on making amends. I hope you both will thus get the opportunity to fix your marriage and move forward from this betrayal. But please do not stay in this marriage unless he does those things (stops cheating, apologizes, works hard to make amends, works hard to fix the marriage). Or even if you stay with him, at least don't lie to yourself about what he did and what kind of person he is. If he is unwilling to do these things, he is absolutely unworthy of you and does not deserve your trust or your love.
Trust me, I understand the temptation you are feeling to sweep this under the rug and carry on as if it's not a big deal. Perhaps one of the worst parts of this kind of betrayal is how powerless it makes you, and you want to avoid feeling powerless. I don't blame you! He has all the power, it seems, and you (seemingly) have none. It only takes one person to shatter a 20 year marriage, and that person right now is your husband. Will he fix it? Is he willing to? Whether his answer is yes or no (and let me caution you: the answer isn't the one he gives you verbally, it is the one he gives you through his actions), you will have to accept his answer - not remain in denial about it, not tell yourself stories to make it easier for you to swallow bullshit. Regardless of what it seems like, you do have this much power: the power to face reality, accept it, and make decisions consciously, wide awake.
posted by MiraK at 8:42 AM on March 26 [56 favorites]
I get the sense that you're trying to spare yourself the pain of having to face the betrayal full on by reframing it like that, but I'm sorry, I don't think that does you any favors. This isn't polyamony. This isn't a nontraditional relationship choice. This isn't an open marriage. It is a cheating spouse. I'm sorry your husband of 20 years cheated on you. There is no excuse for what he did.
I hope, for your sake, that he chooses to stop cheating, make sincere apologies to you, and work hard on making amends. I hope you both will thus get the opportunity to fix your marriage and move forward from this betrayal. But please do not stay in this marriage unless he does those things (stops cheating, apologizes, works hard to make amends, works hard to fix the marriage). Or even if you stay with him, at least don't lie to yourself about what he did and what kind of person he is. If he is unwilling to do these things, he is absolutely unworthy of you and does not deserve your trust or your love.
Trust me, I understand the temptation you are feeling to sweep this under the rug and carry on as if it's not a big deal. Perhaps one of the worst parts of this kind of betrayal is how powerless it makes you, and you want to avoid feeling powerless. I don't blame you! He has all the power, it seems, and you (seemingly) have none. It only takes one person to shatter a 20 year marriage, and that person right now is your husband. Will he fix it? Is he willing to? Whether his answer is yes or no (and let me caution you: the answer isn't the one he gives you verbally, it is the one he gives you through his actions), you will have to accept his answer - not remain in denial about it, not tell yourself stories to make it easier for you to swallow bullshit. Regardless of what it seems like, you do have this much power: the power to face reality, accept it, and make decisions consciously, wide awake.
posted by MiraK at 8:42 AM on March 26 [56 favorites]
What I wish I had known early on as my long-term marriage broke up is that I had to protect myself because no one else was going to do it for me. I wish I'd known that it was okay for me to do that.
He's already protecting himself, seems to me. That's what the secrecy has been about. Like others in this thread, I caution you against taking too much hope from the talks you've been having lately. My ex and I had those too, at the end. They didn't matter. We were both one foot out the door by then; it was just too late.
I also wish I'd known that I would survive the marriage's dissolution. I tell you this as a gift now: if your marriage ends, you will survive. I promise you, you will.
And speaking of protecting yourself:
If you are in a community property state, you are at least somewhat safeguarded from him yoinking all the assets currently in his name (which have sucked up a lot of your income over the years). If you are not, however, you NEED to see an accountant and a lawyer. The best time to do so would have been before all those assets ended up in his sole name. The second-best time is NOW NOW RIGHT THE HELL NOW. Get your name on those titles however you have to.
In a non-community-property state, you haven't a hope in hell of exiting with your finances intact unless you assert ownership of those assets -- and cynically, this dependency may have figured into his calculations.
posted by humbug at 8:55 AM on March 26 [17 favorites]
He's already protecting himself, seems to me. That's what the secrecy has been about. Like others in this thread, I caution you against taking too much hope from the talks you've been having lately. My ex and I had those too, at the end. They didn't matter. We were both one foot out the door by then; it was just too late.
I also wish I'd known that I would survive the marriage's dissolution. I tell you this as a gift now: if your marriage ends, you will survive. I promise you, you will.
And speaking of protecting yourself:
If you are in a community property state, you are at least somewhat safeguarded from him yoinking all the assets currently in his name (which have sucked up a lot of your income over the years). If you are not, however, you NEED to see an accountant and a lawyer. The best time to do so would have been before all those assets ended up in his sole name. The second-best time is NOW NOW RIGHT THE HELL NOW. Get your name on those titles however you have to.
In a non-community-property state, you haven't a hope in hell of exiting with your finances intact unless you assert ownership of those assets -- and cynically, this dependency may have figured into his calculations.
posted by humbug at 8:55 AM on March 26 [17 favorites]
I had a longer answer, but it concluded with this: you cannot make any smart decisions here if you are still in the
teacup-fragile
panic-under-the-surface
the-life-I-loved-is-crumbling
stage and have not yet made it through the
nearly-caught-an-assault-charge
white-hot-rage
saw-actual-fear-for-his-life-in-his-eyes
process.
You have GOT to face and enumerate and acknowledge his fuckery before you can make decisions. As soon as you evoked the hedgeword 'venture', with her, this 'venture' I'm going to guess is one where a court might have some words about 'fiduciary duty' eventually? You have to accept - in detail - the extent of the mess he's made and the risks he's exposed you to and the willingness to lie to you 24/7 for a year and a half, like accept it in your brain and your poor betrayed heart and probably also your pocket. You have to come to the realization that you cannot cause someone to have an affair, people are entirely capable of not having affairs if they choose, even if you have to work late. You have to examine whether - as you are doing trying to take "responsibility" for his cheating, as you've done pushing the marriage ball forward because he wouldn't do estate planning, and has now left you on the hook for his financial shenanigans - you had already been trying to hold up more than 50% of the relationship and are simply volunteering to continue doing so, and eating his fuckups, to preserve a life you have been enjoying. You cannot repair this relationship by yourself, and you need clear eyes to see if he will do all that work himself, unprompted.
If you come out of the other side of your full fury and can identify something salvageable in the relationship, okay, work from that. But you cannot trust your own decisions until you have broken something, and yes I mean beat an old printer to death in the woods but I also mean broken the vessel of illusion in yourself and acknowledged the real damage done. TO you. BY choice. And whether you think that is actually love.
You cannot live in the teacup-fragile stage forever, even though we think we can. You HAVE to see him for the piece of shit he has been before you can see if that experience has changed him. (He's still with her and she's left her husband, he's still a piece of shit. But you have to come to that yourself.)
These relationships cannot be fixed. New ones can sometimes be forged from the ashes, but I have only ever seen that work when people chose to be honest up front rather than lie until they got caught.
Get to the anger, and then see what you want after that.
posted by Lyn Never at 8:57 AM on March 26 [29 favorites]
teacup-fragile
panic-under-the-surface
the-life-I-loved-is-crumbling
stage and have not yet made it through the
nearly-caught-an-assault-charge
white-hot-rage
saw-actual-fear-for-his-life-in-his-eyes
process.
You have GOT to face and enumerate and acknowledge his fuckery before you can make decisions. As soon as you evoked the hedgeword 'venture', with her, this 'venture' I'm going to guess is one where a court might have some words about 'fiduciary duty' eventually? You have to accept - in detail - the extent of the mess he's made and the risks he's exposed you to and the willingness to lie to you 24/7 for a year and a half, like accept it in your brain and your poor betrayed heart and probably also your pocket. You have to come to the realization that you cannot cause someone to have an affair, people are entirely capable of not having affairs if they choose, even if you have to work late. You have to examine whether - as you are doing trying to take "responsibility" for his cheating, as you've done pushing the marriage ball forward because he wouldn't do estate planning, and has now left you on the hook for his financial shenanigans - you had already been trying to hold up more than 50% of the relationship and are simply volunteering to continue doing so, and eating his fuckups, to preserve a life you have been enjoying. You cannot repair this relationship by yourself, and you need clear eyes to see if he will do all that work himself, unprompted.
If you come out of the other side of your full fury and can identify something salvageable in the relationship, okay, work from that. But you cannot trust your own decisions until you have broken something, and yes I mean beat an old printer to death in the woods but I also mean broken the vessel of illusion in yourself and acknowledged the real damage done. TO you. BY choice. And whether you think that is actually love.
You cannot live in the teacup-fragile stage forever, even though we think we can. You HAVE to see him for the piece of shit he has been before you can see if that experience has changed him. (He's still with her and she's left her husband, he's still a piece of shit. But you have to come to that yourself.)
These relationships cannot be fixed. New ones can sometimes be forged from the ashes, but I have only ever seen that work when people chose to be honest up front rather than lie until they got caught.
Get to the anger, and then see what you want after that.
posted by Lyn Never at 8:57 AM on March 26 [29 favorites]
I can tell you that someone falling in love with and cheating with someone else is sometimes the cause of a relationship to end, but also sometimes a manifestation of existing problems they’re not facing directly. Are you sure there haven’t been previous affairs, emotional or physical? I also think the timing of this, right after your marriage, is not a coincidence. He’s a man who didn’t want to be married, and he’s taking a pretty crappy path back to that.
I see you prioritizing your marriage and relationship in a way he is not. He’s prioritizing himself. I would encourage you to prioritize yourself and really think about moving forward without this man.
Please get into therapy. And, if he does the same, great. But if not, I don’t think there’s a lot of hope. It’s not your job to do all the work of the relationship and caretaking. His affair isn’t your fault, friend.
posted by bluedaisy at 9:26 AM on March 26 [18 favorites]
I see you prioritizing your marriage and relationship in a way he is not. He’s prioritizing himself. I would encourage you to prioritize yourself and really think about moving forward without this man.
Please get into therapy. And, if he does the same, great. But if not, I don’t think there’s a lot of hope. It’s not your job to do all the work of the relationship and caretaking. His affair isn’t your fault, friend.
posted by bluedaisy at 9:26 AM on March 26 [18 favorites]
I’ll also co-sign that there are many happy, healthy models and examples of non-monogamy, and very few start with someone cheating and getting caught and having to decide between a long time spouse and an affair partner who wants monogamy. That’s just another, more painful, path to divorce.
posted by bluedaisy at 9:29 AM on March 26 [8 favorites]
posted by bluedaisy at 9:29 AM on March 26 [8 favorites]
I'm quoting you on this one:
I know that she fulfills a need in him that I simply can't, and that after 20 years the "sparkiness" can fade in a long-term relationship.
But I know that she wants a full-time relationship with him (through online DM's that tipped me off to the affair).
She's the shiny new and you're not, and she wants a full time relationship with him and she's left her husband? I think he's going to end up in a monogamous relationship with her and not a poly one with the both of you. If forced to choose, he probably won't pick you. As you'll see on Reddit, one person wanting to suddenly get some strange in a monogamous relationship (and as others pointed out, he cheated on you and decided to "buy this house" without your input) usually breaks up the relationship. I get that you don't want to lose him, but you probably already have.
Start protecting yourself and preparing for divorce. I'm sorry to say it since you still love him and believe he still loves you, but shiny new after decades of relationship, well....
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:45 AM on March 26 [7 favorites]
I know that she fulfills a need in him that I simply can't, and that after 20 years the "sparkiness" can fade in a long-term relationship.
But I know that she wants a full-time relationship with him (through online DM's that tipped me off to the affair).
She's the shiny new and you're not, and she wants a full time relationship with him and she's left her husband? I think he's going to end up in a monogamous relationship with her and not a poly one with the both of you. If forced to choose, he probably won't pick you. As you'll see on Reddit, one person wanting to suddenly get some strange in a monogamous relationship (and as others pointed out, he cheated on you and decided to "buy this house" without your input) usually breaks up the relationship. I get that you don't want to lose him, but you probably already have.
Start protecting yourself and preparing for divorce. I'm sorry to say it since you still love him and believe he still loves you, but shiny new after decades of relationship, well....
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:45 AM on March 26 [7 favorites]
I think you've gotten some good advice, but also that a lot of people here are projecting to a degree that might not be helpful (even if they are well-meaning). It is impossible to distill a 20-year relationship into one question for Internet strangers. On that note:
I've considered therapy, and we've mentioned couples counseling... but I'm honestly not sure what we'll get out of that given the work we are already doing.
I'd like to push against that assumption a bit - therapy will likely be more productive if you are already talking in-depth with each other about everything. Sure, sometimes the job of the couple's therapist is to get the couple to start communicating, but that's only the first step. The next step is for the therapist to listen to what is being said, and notice what is not being said, to notice any potential miscommunications (however slight), and to guide people into digging deeper. You may be communicating fairly well, but given your husband just hid something from you, it would be good to get a neutral third party to help you both assess the situation - I would at least book one session with a professional.
And yeah, see a lawyer to go over all of the financial implications, etc.
posted by coffeecat at 10:06 AM on March 26 [11 favorites]
I've considered therapy, and we've mentioned couples counseling... but I'm honestly not sure what we'll get out of that given the work we are already doing.
I'd like to push against that assumption a bit - therapy will likely be more productive if you are already talking in-depth with each other about everything. Sure, sometimes the job of the couple's therapist is to get the couple to start communicating, but that's only the first step. The next step is for the therapist to listen to what is being said, and notice what is not being said, to notice any potential miscommunications (however slight), and to guide people into digging deeper. You may be communicating fairly well, but given your husband just hid something from you, it would be good to get a neutral third party to help you both assess the situation - I would at least book one session with a professional.
And yeah, see a lawyer to go over all of the financial implications, etc.
posted by coffeecat at 10:06 AM on March 26 [11 favorites]
I’m a domestic violence victim advocate, and what I’m hearing here is a middle aged woman who is terrified of having to start over, so she’s convincing herself that his emotional abuse of her is somehow ok. (Because relationships are based on trust, and he has spent the last 18 months being entirely untrustworthy). Frankly, your relationship sounds pretty one-sided to me. It took him 18 years to (hesitantly) decide to marry you?
Starting over is scary, but staying with someone who prioritizes their temporary pleasure over their spouse’s trust is scarier. The longer you wait, the harder it will be. It won’t take you nearly as long to re-establish your life as you think it will. In five years, you could be a 55 year old living her own life for the first time in twenty years, or you can be a 55 year old living with the constant fear that her partner, whom she can’t trust anyway, is going to leave her for someone else. It’s better for you to be in control of the parting when it happens, rather than for you to be shocked when he comes home one day and says he’s divorcing you, here’s the court date, you have 30 days to find a place to live. Please do as other people have suggested and contact a divorce attorney. And also see about some counseling.
Right now, he has his cake and is eating it too. You need to grab the fork out of his hand, because otherwise all you’re going to get is crumbs.
You deserve better. You deserve to be free to find someone who won’t violate your trust.
posted by MexicanYenta at 10:08 AM on March 26 [47 favorites]
Starting over is scary, but staying with someone who prioritizes their temporary pleasure over their spouse’s trust is scarier. The longer you wait, the harder it will be. It won’t take you nearly as long to re-establish your life as you think it will. In five years, you could be a 55 year old living her own life for the first time in twenty years, or you can be a 55 year old living with the constant fear that her partner, whom she can’t trust anyway, is going to leave her for someone else. It’s better for you to be in control of the parting when it happens, rather than for you to be shocked when he comes home one day and says he’s divorcing you, here’s the court date, you have 30 days to find a place to live. Please do as other people have suggested and contact a divorce attorney. And also see about some counseling.
Right now, he has his cake and is eating it too. You need to grab the fork out of his hand, because otherwise all you’re going to get is crumbs.
You deserve better. You deserve to be free to find someone who won’t violate your trust.
posted by MexicanYenta at 10:08 AM on March 26 [47 favorites]
I am no expert and have not experienced a similar challenge. But you are 50! That is young, in the grand scheme of things. Maybe this relationship has run its course? You could split up and have another 20 year relationship in your future with someone else, a few years down the line. Maybe it sounds harsh but honestly with the cheating and whatnot I'd be preparing to divorce and move on. If you were both in your 70s it might be harder to start over but you have decades ahead of you.
posted by emd3737 at 11:01 AM on March 26 [5 favorites]
posted by emd3737 at 11:01 AM on March 26 [5 favorites]
Also, respectfully, is it possible that the affair didn't come out of closeness from the shared venture, but that the venture came out of a mutual attraction they already had for each other, and the shared ventured gave them a way to explore that connection (even if it wasn't something they were saying out loud)? I think you are working from the assumption that he lied about one big thing but is being honest about everything else, and you might need some space to take a big step back and look and think a lot more critically about the expanse of your relationship, including his reluctance to marry and the timing of those conversations and this affair. I think you have centered your relationship for so long that it might serve you well to be a bit more selfish for a while.
I'm willing to open the marriage, as long as our relationship remains central.
A lot of couples going into non-monogamy saying that, but he's also shown that his relationship with her is primary in many ways: she knows about you, and you didn't know about her. It's really hard for people who have been lying for so long and so easily to start being honest and open and communicating well about all this, especially because it sounds like you're the one raising the possibility of an open relationship after you discovered his cheating. Yes, it's possible for people to have open and honest marriages and communication, but it takes a lot of work, even when there hasn't already been a history of lying and betrayal.
posted by bluedaisy at 11:36 AM on March 26 [14 favorites]
I'm willing to open the marriage, as long as our relationship remains central.
A lot of couples going into non-monogamy saying that, but he's also shown that his relationship with her is primary in many ways: she knows about you, and you didn't know about her. It's really hard for people who have been lying for so long and so easily to start being honest and open and communicating well about all this, especially because it sounds like you're the one raising the possibility of an open relationship after you discovered his cheating. Yes, it's possible for people to have open and honest marriages and communication, but it takes a lot of work, even when there hasn't already been a history of lying and betrayal.
posted by bluedaisy at 11:36 AM on March 26 [14 favorites]
I have to say it sounds like you are glossing over the part about your spouse cheating on you and lying to you for 18 months.
The person I know who had a similar experience (husband was found having a longish affair with a co-worker) broke up with him. It was not so much the sex (unprotected! and one of these people have herpes!), it was the lying.
You seem to be trying to wrap this into some kind of "its understandable because we've been together so long", etc.. And you seem to think that a poly relationship is a possible solution, but that does not change that your partner is a liar and was okay with cheating on you.
See a lawyer asap and protect yourself.
This is a hard road, hang in there.
posted by rhonzo at 12:10 PM on March 26 [6 favorites]
The person I know who had a similar experience (husband was found having a longish affair with a co-worker) broke up with him. It was not so much the sex (unprotected! and one of these people have herpes!), it was the lying.
You seem to be trying to wrap this into some kind of "its understandable because we've been together so long", etc.. And you seem to think that a poly relationship is a possible solution, but that does not change that your partner is a liar and was okay with cheating on you.
See a lawyer asap and protect yourself.
This is a hard road, hang in there.
posted by rhonzo at 12:10 PM on March 26 [6 favorites]
But he owns a couple of big assets outright in his name only... like the home we live in. Whereas I've paid for big renovations, ongoing maintenance, insurance, etc.
I have gone through and favorited every answer that tells you to get to a lawyer, stat. You could lose your house. You probably will lose it unless you move on this right away. Put all the emotions aside, put all the fear and the love and the horrible disappointment and sorrow on the back burner and get yourself to a good lawyer tomorrow. You need to protect your assets immediately and, not only that, you're going to have to prove that they are yours. Take any receipts, any paperwork, anything you have to prove that you paid for the above. Scan them, make copies, leave a file with the lawyer.
It sounds like you are afraid that the very act of going to a lawyer means that divorce is imminent and that he will automatically find out you have seen one. He won't know unless you tell him and, when you say you don't keep secrets, keep in mind that he certainly does. Does seeing a lawyer mean the marriage is ending? No. It might end, sure, and in that case you'll be protected. Or it might keep going - and in that case you will also be protected. Just being married means very little. Do you have right of survivorship to that house?
Also, I am so sorry to say this, but nobody else has and I'm going to do it: it's entirely possible that this is not his first affair. You would be amazed how many men are serial cheaters. It is so common. Sure, this might be the only time - and I can tell that you think oh, it's true love, etc - but you could well be wrong. You know he has had one affair, do not be blindsided if, now that your eyes are open, others start to appear. This is one of the reasons you need to protect yourself financially so very urgently now.
He lied to you for 18 months. He is not acting in good faith. Do not believe him when he says you are protected and everything will be fine and he loves you and he loves her and so on and so forth. Take care of yourself first. Keep your eyes open. Do not believe what he says without evidence.
posted by mygothlaundry at 12:38 PM on March 26 [21 favorites]
I have gone through and favorited every answer that tells you to get to a lawyer, stat. You could lose your house. You probably will lose it unless you move on this right away. Put all the emotions aside, put all the fear and the love and the horrible disappointment and sorrow on the back burner and get yourself to a good lawyer tomorrow. You need to protect your assets immediately and, not only that, you're going to have to prove that they are yours. Take any receipts, any paperwork, anything you have to prove that you paid for the above. Scan them, make copies, leave a file with the lawyer.
It sounds like you are afraid that the very act of going to a lawyer means that divorce is imminent and that he will automatically find out you have seen one. He won't know unless you tell him and, when you say you don't keep secrets, keep in mind that he certainly does. Does seeing a lawyer mean the marriage is ending? No. It might end, sure, and in that case you'll be protected. Or it might keep going - and in that case you will also be protected. Just being married means very little. Do you have right of survivorship to that house?
Also, I am so sorry to say this, but nobody else has and I'm going to do it: it's entirely possible that this is not his first affair. You would be amazed how many men are serial cheaters. It is so common. Sure, this might be the only time - and I can tell that you think oh, it's true love, etc - but you could well be wrong. You know he has had one affair, do not be blindsided if, now that your eyes are open, others start to appear. This is one of the reasons you need to protect yourself financially so very urgently now.
He lied to you for 18 months. He is not acting in good faith. Do not believe him when he says you are protected and everything will be fine and he loves you and he loves her and so on and so forth. Take care of yourself first. Keep your eyes open. Do not believe what he says without evidence.
posted by mygothlaundry at 12:38 PM on March 26 [21 favorites]
I'm honestly not sure what we'll get out of that given the work we are already doing.
But after the work you've done and all you've been through, your partner violated the most basic expectations of a trusting, open relationship. Couples counseling isn't going to change that. But having your own therapist would let you process where you're at and how to handle when boundaries are permanently broken.
It may help to look at it like this: You just spent 20 years of your life in what was once a strong relationship. You learned a lot about yourself and what you need and want. You had some really, really good times. But relationships end, sometimes badly, and that sucks. You are stronger because of it, and have so much time now to dedicate to surrounding yourself with people who love and respect you.
So yes, therapy, lawyer. Activities with friends and family who support you. Journaling. Let yourself grieve and experience all the sadness that comes from this sort of loss. Be very kind to yourself, because you deserve it.
posted by violetish at 12:50 PM on March 26 [6 favorites]
But after the work you've done and all you've been through, your partner violated the most basic expectations of a trusting, open relationship. Couples counseling isn't going to change that. But having your own therapist would let you process where you're at and how to handle when boundaries are permanently broken.
It may help to look at it like this: You just spent 20 years of your life in what was once a strong relationship. You learned a lot about yourself and what you need and want. You had some really, really good times. But relationships end, sometimes badly, and that sucks. You are stronger because of it, and have so much time now to dedicate to surrounding yourself with people who love and respect you.
So yes, therapy, lawyer. Activities with friends and family who support you. Journaling. Let yourself grieve and experience all the sadness that comes from this sort of loss. Be very kind to yourself, because you deserve it.
posted by violetish at 12:50 PM on March 26 [6 favorites]
I also think the timing of this, right after your marriage, is not a coincidence. He’s a man who didn’t want to be married, and he’s taking a pretty crappy path back to that.
I think he’s a man who definitely didn’t want to be married to you, and had to be talked into it. I agree that the timing is not a coincidence, and I think you have bigger problems than just the affair partner. I would approach things from that framing, and get a lawyer now so you can understand your options better.
posted by corb at 12:52 PM on March 26 [8 favorites]
I think he’s a man who definitely didn’t want to be married to you, and had to be talked into it. I agree that the timing is not a coincidence, and I think you have bigger problems than just the affair partner. I would approach things from that framing, and get a lawyer now so you can understand your options better.
posted by corb at 12:52 PM on March 26 [8 favorites]
I think a large part of the work you need to do is on yourself right now. It sounds like your partner fell for someone and decided to start over already, at age 66. You can absolutely do the same at age 50 (or even later!).
The end of a long-term relationship always feels like the end of everything. So much change is coming; new home, new financial situation, maybe new friends, maybe losing some old ones. From this point on, everything is going to be different. Strange. Iffy. But in a way - that's because you're at the beginning of something brand new. New chances, new options, new opportunities.
That's the reality you have to embrace, because the alternative is living with a partner who was completely happy to lie to you every second of every day for 18 months, putting both your heart and your health at risk. However nice this person is, however warm and affectionate - is that what you want? Do you want to live alongside this person having an emotional and physical relationship with someone they prioritized over you, in secret, for all that time?
Or do you maybe want the chance to start over yourself, and eventually find someone you can trust?
posted by invincible summer at 1:03 PM on March 26 [3 favorites]
The end of a long-term relationship always feels like the end of everything. So much change is coming; new home, new financial situation, maybe new friends, maybe losing some old ones. From this point on, everything is going to be different. Strange. Iffy. But in a way - that's because you're at the beginning of something brand new. New chances, new options, new opportunities.
That's the reality you have to embrace, because the alternative is living with a partner who was completely happy to lie to you every second of every day for 18 months, putting both your heart and your health at risk. However nice this person is, however warm and affectionate - is that what you want? Do you want to live alongside this person having an emotional and physical relationship with someone they prioritized over you, in secret, for all that time?
Or do you maybe want the chance to start over yourself, and eventually find someone you can trust?
posted by invincible summer at 1:03 PM on March 26 [3 favorites]
hope for the best, emotionally, but prepare for the worst, logistically.
This. You'll find it a lot easier to make emotionally sound and compassionate decisions if you don't have to worry about losing your home.
He's very torn at the moment and deeply sorry for hurting me.
Great, let him demonstrate how sorry he is by recognizing your equity in the house you live in and the other assets you share and to which you have contributed.
I know that she wants a full-time relationship with him (through online DM's that tipped me off to the affair).
Do you mean you saw messages between them, or did she contact you to tell you about the affair? Either way, don't underestimate this woman, she is not your friend and, as others have noted, it is amazing how quickly and completely someone can turn you into the villain to justify this terrible behaviour to themselves. Although your husband is the one who made the deepest promises to you, this person is also in a position to harm you, partly because she once let you think she was your friend.
posted by rpfields at 1:52 PM on March 26 [9 favorites]
This. You'll find it a lot easier to make emotionally sound and compassionate decisions if you don't have to worry about losing your home.
He's very torn at the moment and deeply sorry for hurting me.
Great, let him demonstrate how sorry he is by recognizing your equity in the house you live in and the other assets you share and to which you have contributed.
I know that she wants a full-time relationship with him (through online DM's that tipped me off to the affair).
Do you mean you saw messages between them, or did she contact you to tell you about the affair? Either way, don't underestimate this woman, she is not your friend and, as others have noted, it is amazing how quickly and completely someone can turn you into the villain to justify this terrible behaviour to themselves. Although your husband is the one who made the deepest promises to you, this person is also in a position to harm you, partly because she once let you think she was your friend.
posted by rpfields at 1:52 PM on March 26 [9 favorites]
When I was 41, my partner of eleven years cheated on me with his (married, with a young child) secretary. I was blindsided like you. He moved out of the house. Not gonna lie, it was very, very hard. 15+ years later, I am still bitter about his lying and betrayal. Here is what helped me:
posted by olopua at 1:56 PM on March 26 [10 favorites]
- Keep a Journal. I had a hard time sleeping for the first three months. My thoughts raced around and around. I think you are having some of this feeling too. Write it all down. No edits. Don't bother re-reading it either. Just get your thoughts out
- Therapy. I needed to be able to talk about this and not alienate my friends
- Books. For the first few months I was so distraught I could not focus to read. When I was able to read again, these books were particularly helpful:
- Women who love too much My therapist saw I was co-dependent. I had to learn what that was
- He's just not that into you Funny and real
- The Power of Now It helped me stop fixating on the past. And when I met my new partner, turns out he was also really into Eckhart Tolle
- Exercise. I hit the gym for weights and swimming. I hiked with friends in the woods. It helped clear my mind.
- Travel. I lived and worked overseas for a few months. A change of scenery could be good for you.
posted by olopua at 1:56 PM on March 26 [10 favorites]
We've built a rich, beautiful and somewhat complex life together with many shared friends and communities, and we split our time between two locations every year. I am terrified and emotionally crushed at the thought of both losing him and this life we've built dissolving.
People have said a lot here about the fear of losing him, but less about losing the life that you love. I don't know how helpful it is, but that life would have changed anyway, to one extent or another. Some other couples you're friends with will probably split up themselves; key people will move away, or pass away, or otherwise stop being active in the group; friendships break up or cool off. You're so lucky that you've had these 20 wonderful years - it sounds like a beautiful chapter in your life. You're also young enough that you can build - not a totally new life, unless you actually want that, but a life that incorporates some of the things you love from your current one and some new things to build a new rich, beautiful, and probably complex chapter.
Maybe it would help a little to take stock of what intangible things you've acquired over these past years - memories, skills, things you've learned about yourself or about the world. It's a chapter, it sounds like it's ending one way or another, but it's your chapter to close and remember and take things from into the next one.
posted by trig at 3:44 PM on March 26 [6 favorites]
People have said a lot here about the fear of losing him, but less about losing the life that you love. I don't know how helpful it is, but that life would have changed anyway, to one extent or another. Some other couples you're friends with will probably split up themselves; key people will move away, or pass away, or otherwise stop being active in the group; friendships break up or cool off. You're so lucky that you've had these 20 wonderful years - it sounds like a beautiful chapter in your life. You're also young enough that you can build - not a totally new life, unless you actually want that, but a life that incorporates some of the things you love from your current one and some new things to build a new rich, beautiful, and probably complex chapter.
Maybe it would help a little to take stock of what intangible things you've acquired over these past years - memories, skills, things you've learned about yourself or about the world. It's a chapter, it sounds like it's ending one way or another, but it's your chapter to close and remember and take things from into the next one.
posted by trig at 3:44 PM on March 26 [6 favorites]
I'm so sorry he cheated on you. Don't try to shift this into polyamory, he has already failed polyamory 101 by lying to you for over a year.
>There's not a lot of anger or blame directed at each other.
What on earth would he have to be angry or blameful at you about? You sound lovely. I wish you had more anger and blame directed at him.
I think you should divorce him in the most rigid and legal way possible. Get a good lawyer and take every penny of your own assets back - and make sure you get reimbursed for the value you added onto his house. He cheated on you for MONTHS, and when you found out, he wrote some lists to try to figure out which woman he prefers. I'm so sorry to say that there is no going back from this. Get your money and move on.
Watch your back with him and the woman (and don't fall into the trap of blaming her - she sucks, but he's the one who made vows to you). What he did to you was absolutely jawdroppingly awful, and I don't think it's forgiveable.
posted by nouvelle-personne at 3:51 PM on March 26 [16 favorites]
>There's not a lot of anger or blame directed at each other.
What on earth would he have to be angry or blameful at you about? You sound lovely. I wish you had more anger and blame directed at him.
I think you should divorce him in the most rigid and legal way possible. Get a good lawyer and take every penny of your own assets back - and make sure you get reimbursed for the value you added onto his house. He cheated on you for MONTHS, and when you found out, he wrote some lists to try to figure out which woman he prefers. I'm so sorry to say that there is no going back from this. Get your money and move on.
Watch your back with him and the woman (and don't fall into the trap of blaming her - she sucks, but he's the one who made vows to you). What he did to you was absolutely jawdroppingly awful, and I don't think it's forgiveable.
posted by nouvelle-personne at 3:51 PM on March 26 [16 favorites]
When my husband cheated, and I found out by gut feeling and basically pinning him down for the truth, he was also apologetic. He was also sorry and contrite. He also met with the receptionist at his job that he was having the affair with to tell her it was over. We started counseling. We spoke more, had deeper conversations.
And a few months later her was at it again with someone else.
It's probably too late but I would have taken screenshots of the DMs between them. Absolutely talk to a lawyer; absolutely find your own counselor. Save any texts between you and your husband where he admits what he's done. You are the most important part now and you need to take care of yourself.
I'm older than you now, and let me tell you, I LOVE my life these years later (I was 43 when we divorced) and the life I have now.
You will get through this.
posted by annieb at 6:19 PM on March 26 [10 favorites]
And a few months later her was at it again with someone else.
It's probably too late but I would have taken screenshots of the DMs between them. Absolutely talk to a lawyer; absolutely find your own counselor. Save any texts between you and your husband where he admits what he's done. You are the most important part now and you need to take care of yourself.
I'm older than you now, and let me tell you, I LOVE my life these years later (I was 43 when we divorced) and the life I have now.
You will get through this.
posted by annieb at 6:19 PM on March 26 [10 favorites]
This isn't polyamory. This is deception and abuse. An excellent (and funny) resource on infidelity is Chump Lady, a blog and community with snark and cartoons created by a woman who wrote a book called "Leave a Cheater, Gain a Life".
posted by mezzanayne at 7:01 PM on March 26 [1 favorite]
posted by mezzanayne at 7:01 PM on March 26 [1 favorite]
So I want to answer your question in a way that explains why I think this is a bigger problem than you think this is.
I once was in a long term relationship with someone who sort-of-cheated, in that he broke relationship boundaries that in retrospect were poorly designed, and he knew he was wronging me. He didn't tell me for some time. But the thing is, when he knew he was wronging me, he sat for a month or two with it, and then broke up with me, because he was in love with me and didn't want to do that to me. Your guy has sat for eighteen months with this, because he hasn't respected you enough not to do this to you.
You want your relationship to "remain central", but it really seems like your relationship isn't central right now. Especially for men, the centrality of relationships is often not who they live with, but who they're willing to prioritize, and who they're willing to hurt and who they're not willing to hurt. He loves you, but he's not in love with you - and it's actually not just an expected thing that people will fall out of love after twenty years.
You might be able to bargain your way into sticking around, but I'm not even sure about that - but either way, I think you need to brace yourself for heartache.
posted by corb at 8:36 PM on March 26 [5 favorites]
I once was in a long term relationship with someone who sort-of-cheated, in that he broke relationship boundaries that in retrospect were poorly designed, and he knew he was wronging me. He didn't tell me for some time. But the thing is, when he knew he was wronging me, he sat for a month or two with it, and then broke up with me, because he was in love with me and didn't want to do that to me. Your guy has sat for eighteen months with this, because he hasn't respected you enough not to do this to you.
You want your relationship to "remain central", but it really seems like your relationship isn't central right now. Especially for men, the centrality of relationships is often not who they live with, but who they're willing to prioritize, and who they're willing to hurt and who they're not willing to hurt. He loves you, but he's not in love with you - and it's actually not just an expected thing that people will fall out of love after twenty years.
You might be able to bargain your way into sticking around, but I'm not even sure about that - but either way, I think you need to brace yourself for heartache.
posted by corb at 8:36 PM on March 26 [5 favorites]
You do sound lovely and like you'll be fine no matter what happens. I'm sorry you're going through this and hope you're hanging in there as you read all these answers.
What jumps out to me is that this started right after you got married. To me this suggests that there may be undercurrents that you (and/or he) might not be aware of that counseling might help with.
The other thing is a bit of an AskMetafilter breakup cliche, but read the book When Things Fall Apart. Even when things appear to be staying the same, they are changing. Getting comfortable with this may help you as you go through the times ahead, whatever they bring.
posted by slidell at 2:00 AM on March 27 [3 favorites]
What jumps out to me is that this started right after you got married. To me this suggests that there may be undercurrents that you (and/or he) might not be aware of that counseling might help with.
The other thing is a bit of an AskMetafilter breakup cliche, but read the book When Things Fall Apart. Even when things appear to be staying the same, they are changing. Getting comfortable with this may help you as you go through the times ahead, whatever they bring.
posted by slidell at 2:00 AM on March 27 [3 favorites]
I went through something similar when I was 49 and my husband was 62. All of the above advice would have been so helpful for me and I have only a few things to add that weren't already mentioned -
- the marriage you have had will inevitably change, whether you are in a formal polyamory situation or divorced. The marriage you had built and the life you enjoyed will never be the same, no matter what decision you land on. So you have some grief coming. Expect it.
- Once I realized that divorce was where we were headed, I started a list of things that would be better as a single woman. It had small things like, "I don't have to cook dinner for anyone else." and big things like "I don't have to discuss large purchases with anyone else" and "I can go on vacation where I want without considering someone else's preferences." It was shocking to me how helpful this list was as the process went on.
- My life now is wonderful, truly. It will get better in ways you can't imagine. It is okay to hold on to that hope, even when you don't yet see the evidence.
posted by eleslie at 3:08 AM on March 27 [11 favorites]
- the marriage you have had will inevitably change, whether you are in a formal polyamory situation or divorced. The marriage you had built and the life you enjoyed will never be the same, no matter what decision you land on. So you have some grief coming. Expect it.
- Once I realized that divorce was where we were headed, I started a list of things that would be better as a single woman. It had small things like, "I don't have to cook dinner for anyone else." and big things like "I don't have to discuss large purchases with anyone else" and "I can go on vacation where I want without considering someone else's preferences." It was shocking to me how helpful this list was as the process went on.
- My life now is wonderful, truly. It will get better in ways you can't imagine. It is okay to hold on to that hope, even when you don't yet see the evidence.
posted by eleslie at 3:08 AM on March 27 [11 favorites]
Bluntly, polyamory is not a fix for lying and cheating.
I was in a poly relationship that ended because the other person was lying and cheating. Why were they lying about it when they could have just told me? I honestly still don’t know. But it’s the *lying* that ended the relationship, not the presence of another person.
What I wish I’d known in the moment was this: the lying cheating person doesn’t respect you. Protect yourself and move on.
posted by okayokayigive at 5:17 AM on March 27 [6 favorites]
I was in a poly relationship that ended because the other person was lying and cheating. Why were they lying about it when they could have just told me? I honestly still don’t know. But it’s the *lying* that ended the relationship, not the presence of another person.
What I wish I’d known in the moment was this: the lying cheating person doesn’t respect you. Protect yourself and move on.
posted by okayokayigive at 5:17 AM on March 27 [6 favorites]
I know that she fulfills a need in him that I simply can't
what are you thinking of doing about the needs you have that he simply won’t fulfill? like, suppose you decided that you needed respect, or a needed an honest husband. I understand that in reality these are only frivolous wants, not serious needs - you don’t need to know where you stand or how many people are in your marriage or whether you’re being lied to, not the way he needs an affair. but what if you did?
anyway, even if she’s closer to his age, women are typically hardier for longer, so if you choose to stay married you can with a wonderfully clear conscience allow her to do all the grueling and exhausting parts of his eldercare as it gradually becomes necessary over the next 5-15 years. assuming she is going to keep on wanting him and wanting to serve his needs as she becomes familiar and necessary to him but ceases to be new, as you ceased to be, and gets correspondingly downgraded in value. not everyone would.
I know what love is so I know the chances are very good that you are not going to stop wanting to be his wife, even if the price is that you are no longer the only one. but the great thing about not being the only wife anymore, by his choice, is that you must see his needs are no longer your master. you are ethically free to serve your wants over his needs for the rest of his life, in a way that the wife of a man true to his vows would not be.
posted by queenofbithynia at 5:08 PM on March 27 [13 favorites]
what are you thinking of doing about the needs you have that he simply won’t fulfill? like, suppose you decided that you needed respect, or a needed an honest husband. I understand that in reality these are only frivolous wants, not serious needs - you don’t need to know where you stand or how many people are in your marriage or whether you’re being lied to, not the way he needs an affair. but what if you did?
anyway, even if she’s closer to his age, women are typically hardier for longer, so if you choose to stay married you can with a wonderfully clear conscience allow her to do all the grueling and exhausting parts of his eldercare as it gradually becomes necessary over the next 5-15 years. assuming she is going to keep on wanting him and wanting to serve his needs as she becomes familiar and necessary to him but ceases to be new, as you ceased to be, and gets correspondingly downgraded in value. not everyone would.
I know what love is so I know the chances are very good that you are not going to stop wanting to be his wife, even if the price is that you are no longer the only one. but the great thing about not being the only wife anymore, by his choice, is that you must see his needs are no longer your master. you are ethically free to serve your wants over his needs for the rest of his life, in a way that the wife of a man true to his vows would not be.
posted by queenofbithynia at 5:08 PM on March 27 [13 favorites]
Everything that's been said above is absolutely on point but I'm guessing it's incredibly frustrating and hurtful to read because of course this guy that you've shared your life with for so long isn't just a piece of shit cheater.
The fact is though that everything's changed, now. The choice he's made (and has been making for a considerable time without your input) means that regardless of everything that you had together in the past, things are now different.
It's possible that you'll still be able to have a relationship, but it won't be anything like what you've had up until now.
I hope you get through this okay; it's totally possible to have life change completely and come out the other side smiling. Does not Book and Movie tell us so? Personally, it fucked me up but I could just be an outlier.
In any case, taking care of yourself is paramount when your partner has decided to live a parallel life and then gets caught out. If I could go back and tell myself anything, it's that.
posted by h00py at 5:05 AM on March 28 [6 favorites]
The fact is though that everything's changed, now. The choice he's made (and has been making for a considerable time without your input) means that regardless of everything that you had together in the past, things are now different.
It's possible that you'll still be able to have a relationship, but it won't be anything like what you've had up until now.
I hope you get through this okay; it's totally possible to have life change completely and come out the other side smiling. Does not Book and Movie tell us so? Personally, it fucked me up but I could just be an outlier.
In any case, taking care of yourself is paramount when your partner has decided to live a parallel life and then gets caught out. If I could go back and tell myself anything, it's that.
posted by h00py at 5:05 AM on March 28 [6 favorites]
I think a lot has been said, and I also want to add that at the end of my 13 year relationship, having a couples counselor help to mediate and navigate the feelings that came up for each us was helpful in making a clearer break.
The goal of couples counseling doesn't always need to be to 'save the relationship'. It can also be 'how can we best navigate the end of this in a mutually respectful way'. If that is what you both want.
posted by softlord at 11:08 AM on March 28 [2 favorites]
The goal of couples counseling doesn't always need to be to 'save the relationship'. It can also be 'how can we best navigate the end of this in a mutually respectful way'. If that is what you both want.
posted by softlord at 11:08 AM on March 28 [2 favorites]
My divorce was the hardest thing I’ve been through, and I’ve been through some really hard knocks. I’m so sorry you’re going through this. I hope some of my insight is helpful.
It's always been pretty easy, happy and overall great.
Never arguing can be a bad sign. It can mean that one or both partners are so uninvested that they just “go along to get along.” I have found that while too much arguing about insurmountable differences is obviously a bad sign, some arguing is actually a sign of normal investment.
He's really been avoidant about facing mortality... and estate planning attempts were never completed.
This affair could tie into his denial and, for lack of a better term, late-life crisis.
I pushed for that, and he was hesitant, but there was no ultimatum or anything on my part.
Obviously, this isn’t a great sign.
I've encouraged and helped him make several wise investments that put him in a great financial position (even when I couldn't take advantage of them myself).
Oh, this makes me wince for you. You’re doing so much for him without getting your cut. You’re leading him along and trying to help him make good choices…I wonder if in a vacuum he would make nearly as good of decisions.
But he owns a couple of big assets outright in his name only... like the home we live in.
Ugh. I hope if it comes to divorce, his guilt over the affair at least helps him treat you fairly and buy you out of the house at fair compensation.
This is a venture that I cheerleaded and supported
Wincing again because you’re doing so much for him.
She is also married, and I've just found out that she's separated from her husband.
Gently, I think she probably separated from her husband because of her affair, IE, to be with your husband. She is “free” now and this has changed the calculus.
This affair coincided with an intensely challenging and stressful time for me professionally, and it has taken most of the past year to resolve. I was very distracted, working long hours and a bit disconnected from our day to day relationship... which is why it took me so long to realize what was happening. For what it's worth she's closer in age to him than I am.
Don’t blame yourself for this. You needed support and he wasn’t there for you. A relationship isn’t about you serving someone else’s needs all the time, it needs to be mutual.
My husband and I are generally very open and honest with each other.
You’re honest with him. I don’t know that you can assume he’s been honest with you anymore.
I'm willing to open the marriage, as long as our relationship remains central.
This isn’t something you can dictate. Sorry if this is harsh, but - it’s begging for crumbs. You know people can’t control things like this.
I am terrified and emotionally crushed at the thought of both losing him and this life we've built dissolving.
I know, and I’m so sorry.
But I know that she wants a full-time relationship with him (through online DM's that tipped me off to the affair). And I accidentally (truly) found some notes/journaling he'd written to himself trying to work through this situation...
If you’re finding this out through texts and journals, he’s still not being extremely honest with you.
So... Mefites who have been through this. I turn to you. What helped?
Call the 2-3 best, bulldoggiest divorce attorneys in your town and get a consult on the books with them first so he can’t use them.
Get your needs met by anyone other than him as much as you can. You’re not going to be able to love him harder into loving you. However, picking up your self-respect may actually cause him to rekindle some attraction for you- or it may not. But it’s better than begging for crumbs, it’s really hard to respect that.
You’re 50 and depending on where you live and the ratio of single men, a childfree 50 year old who’s fairly well off can still do very well on the dating market. My mom and Aunt both remarried to men they met around 50 and their second husbands were upgrades. You can find someone nearer your age who will jump for joy at marrying you and won’t make immature choices like your first husband. But the longer you delay, the worse your odds get. So don’t waste time – get out and get dating.
Good for you for insisting he marry you, that should give you some legal protection in what is probably going to be a divorce.
posted by stockpuppet at 12:38 PM on March 28 [7 favorites]
It's always been pretty easy, happy and overall great.
Never arguing can be a bad sign. It can mean that one or both partners are so uninvested that they just “go along to get along.” I have found that while too much arguing about insurmountable differences is obviously a bad sign, some arguing is actually a sign of normal investment.
He's really been avoidant about facing mortality... and estate planning attempts were never completed.
This affair could tie into his denial and, for lack of a better term, late-life crisis.
I pushed for that, and he was hesitant, but there was no ultimatum or anything on my part.
Obviously, this isn’t a great sign.
I've encouraged and helped him make several wise investments that put him in a great financial position (even when I couldn't take advantage of them myself).
Oh, this makes me wince for you. You’re doing so much for him without getting your cut. You’re leading him along and trying to help him make good choices…I wonder if in a vacuum he would make nearly as good of decisions.
But he owns a couple of big assets outright in his name only... like the home we live in.
Ugh. I hope if it comes to divorce, his guilt over the affair at least helps him treat you fairly and buy you out of the house at fair compensation.
This is a venture that I cheerleaded and supported
Wincing again because you’re doing so much for him.
She is also married, and I've just found out that she's separated from her husband.
Gently, I think she probably separated from her husband because of her affair, IE, to be with your husband. She is “free” now and this has changed the calculus.
This affair coincided with an intensely challenging and stressful time for me professionally, and it has taken most of the past year to resolve. I was very distracted, working long hours and a bit disconnected from our day to day relationship... which is why it took me so long to realize what was happening. For what it's worth she's closer in age to him than I am.
Don’t blame yourself for this. You needed support and he wasn’t there for you. A relationship isn’t about you serving someone else’s needs all the time, it needs to be mutual.
My husband and I are generally very open and honest with each other.
You’re honest with him. I don’t know that you can assume he’s been honest with you anymore.
I'm willing to open the marriage, as long as our relationship remains central.
This isn’t something you can dictate. Sorry if this is harsh, but - it’s begging for crumbs. You know people can’t control things like this.
I am terrified and emotionally crushed at the thought of both losing him and this life we've built dissolving.
I know, and I’m so sorry.
But I know that she wants a full-time relationship with him (through online DM's that tipped me off to the affair). And I accidentally (truly) found some notes/journaling he'd written to himself trying to work through this situation...
If you’re finding this out through texts and journals, he’s still not being extremely honest with you.
So... Mefites who have been through this. I turn to you. What helped?
Call the 2-3 best, bulldoggiest divorce attorneys in your town and get a consult on the books with them first so he can’t use them.
Get your needs met by anyone other than him as much as you can. You’re not going to be able to love him harder into loving you. However, picking up your self-respect may actually cause him to rekindle some attraction for you- or it may not. But it’s better than begging for crumbs, it’s really hard to respect that.
You’re 50 and depending on where you live and the ratio of single men, a childfree 50 year old who’s fairly well off can still do very well on the dating market. My mom and Aunt both remarried to men they met around 50 and their second husbands were upgrades. You can find someone nearer your age who will jump for joy at marrying you and won’t make immature choices like your first husband. But the longer you delay, the worse your odds get. So don’t waste time – get out and get dating.
Good for you for insisting he marry you, that should give you some legal protection in what is probably going to be a divorce.
posted by stockpuppet at 12:38 PM on March 28 [7 favorites]
I am so sorry for the terrible upheaval you are experiencing. Facing a situation like this on the cusp of turning 50 is just nonsense. You deserve better.
I have been through this twice. The first time I went along with the “how did I contribute to this situation” model at the urging of a trusted therapist. I regret that choice.
The second time, I just stopped trying to find myself in the infidelity discourse, The “Your marriage can be better than ever” books,” Chumplady, Esther Perel, etc — all of them asked me to strike a pose that I couldn’t maintain. Instead, I told my husband: “If you want out, fine. If you want me, you have one year to make it happen. This is not my fight.” I have no regrets.
All of this is to say I hope you can identify and listen to your most insistent and reliable self, the one whose values you can live with no matter the outcome.
Again, I am so sorry. Find a way to get some sleep. A beautiful, top-of the-line weighted blanket might help.
posted by GeorgieYeats at 6:38 PM on March 28 [7 favorites]
I have been through this twice. The first time I went along with the “how did I contribute to this situation” model at the urging of a trusted therapist. I regret that choice.
The second time, I just stopped trying to find myself in the infidelity discourse, The “Your marriage can be better than ever” books,” Chumplady, Esther Perel, etc — all of them asked me to strike a pose that I couldn’t maintain. Instead, I told my husband: “If you want out, fine. If you want me, you have one year to make it happen. This is not my fight.” I have no regrets.
All of this is to say I hope you can identify and listen to your most insistent and reliable self, the one whose values you can live with no matter the outcome.
Again, I am so sorry. Find a way to get some sleep. A beautiful, top-of the-line weighted blanket might help.
posted by GeorgieYeats at 6:38 PM on March 28 [7 favorites]
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• Consult a divorce attorney - more information is never a bad thing in these sorts of situations.
• Consider a therapist knowledgeable in polyamory, for individual and/or couple counseling.
• Don't "enemy image" the other woman.
• Get clear on what you want and your boundaries.
• Receive support from people who are "safe harbors".
Best wishes to you.
posted by concinnity at 6:49 AM on March 26 [17 favorites]