RICS Building Survey for buying a flat?
March 25, 2024 11:46 AM Subscribe
We're about to put in an offer on a flat in Edinburgh, Scotland. We've gone over the home buyer report extensively and there was one issue that received a "address at some point in time." My instinct screams to get a more comprehensive survey, with a discount in price if any major problems are identified, but I'm not sure.
Also, a sub-question about rising damp.
Background info:
The flat is a ground floor flat in Edinburgh, the building was constructed in the 1910s. It has been continuously occupied and currently has a family living there. The housing report (home buyer's report in the rest of the UK, but with added energy efficiency ratings) indicated a small area with rising damp and a possible looped current for the wires, but otherwise was fine.
Two questions:
1.) Is there somewhere I can read up on rising damp that is not a company trying to sell me products? The first 4 pages of a google search are SEO shit and running a search through reddit find a consensus that I am wary of because I want it to be true (rising damp is incredibly rare, damp is most likely caused by other factors). The home report indicated rising damp, there is a quote from a damp proof coursing installation company with a guarantee of some variety, but there is no tide mark on the walls, just a little bit of mold growing on the wall, something we've had happen in our current flat from condensation issues (we stopped drying our clothing in the bathroom without the fan running and the mold went away). I really like the flat, so I want to believe it is just condensation. Also, I think one of the air bricks is being mostly blocked by a cabinet, so that could definitely influence things.
2.) Is it worth getting a full building survey done on the flat, especially given that the building is only 110 years old? They look like they tend to run in the multiple thousands of pounds and given that the only issues the home report found is damp in one room and possible looped current, I am not sure it is worth it.
The dampness thing has me a little adrift here, as this is something I've never had to consider in the US, even living in pre-war buildings in NYC with steam heat.
Background info:
The flat is a ground floor flat in Edinburgh, the building was constructed in the 1910s. It has been continuously occupied and currently has a family living there. The housing report (home buyer's report in the rest of the UK, but with added energy efficiency ratings) indicated a small area with rising damp and a possible looped current for the wires, but otherwise was fine.
Two questions:
1.) Is there somewhere I can read up on rising damp that is not a company trying to sell me products? The first 4 pages of a google search are SEO shit and running a search through reddit find a consensus that I am wary of because I want it to be true (rising damp is incredibly rare, damp is most likely caused by other factors). The home report indicated rising damp, there is a quote from a damp proof coursing installation company with a guarantee of some variety, but there is no tide mark on the walls, just a little bit of mold growing on the wall, something we've had happen in our current flat from condensation issues (we stopped drying our clothing in the bathroom without the fan running and the mold went away). I really like the flat, so I want to believe it is just condensation. Also, I think one of the air bricks is being mostly blocked by a cabinet, so that could definitely influence things.
2.) Is it worth getting a full building survey done on the flat, especially given that the building is only 110 years old? They look like they tend to run in the multiple thousands of pounds and given that the only issues the home report found is damp in one room and possible looped current, I am not sure it is worth it.
The dampness thing has me a little adrift here, as this is something I've never had to consider in the US, even living in pre-war buildings in NYC with steam heat.
I think a full survey in this case would be absolutely worth it, even if you end up walking away, assuming you can find someone with experience with old buildings.
Another consideration with an Edinburgh flat is the presence or absence of building factors who will either help or hinder with any building work that affects communal areas. Find out if they have a factor, who it is and research their reputation.
posted by Lanark at 12:34 PM on March 25
Another consideration with an Edinburgh flat is the presence or absence of building factors who will either help or hinder with any building work that affects communal areas. Find out if they have a factor, who it is and research their reputation.
posted by Lanark at 12:34 PM on March 25
I think Home Reports are pretty superficial, based primarily on what can be seen on a visual check by the surveyor - they’re not comprehensive.
You could try asking question 2 in r/edinburgh - folk there can be a little salty sometimes but if you put in a reasonably clear and detailed question you’ll probably get some good answers. This thread might be of interest, though is a year old.
There’s also some information on the Shelter Scotland website but it’s pretty superficial. They do have housing advisors so you might be able to get advice by contacting them.
posted by penguin pie at 12:36 PM on March 25
You could try asking question 2 in r/edinburgh - folk there can be a little salty sometimes but if you put in a reasonably clear and detailed question you’ll probably get some good answers. This thread might be of interest, though is a year old.
There’s also some information on the Shelter Scotland website but it’s pretty superficial. They do have housing advisors so you might be able to get advice by contacting them.
posted by penguin pie at 12:36 PM on March 25
There are several levels of building survey (at least in England) and I would highly recommend you get a Level 3 (not a 2 or a 1) survey by a firm experienced with older buildings.
If you find work that needs doing, I've seen it recommended that you get 2-3 specialist tradies to come over and give an estimate on the works needed, and possibly negotiate with the seller to reduce the selling price by some fraction of the cost of the works.
There seems to be a lot of rubbish talked about rising damp and there are some definite scammers out there selling 'solutions'. I can't recommend a proper company though, or say if it's a real problem.
Signed, someone whose friends recently bought a money pit in England, and are now dealing with a leaky chimney plus a collapsed sewer in a listed building that is costing them thousands to mitigate/fix...
posted by NoiselessPenguin at 1:02 PM on March 25 [1 favorite]
If you find work that needs doing, I've seen it recommended that you get 2-3 specialist tradies to come over and give an estimate on the works needed, and possibly negotiate with the seller to reduce the selling price by some fraction of the cost of the works.
There seems to be a lot of rubbish talked about rising damp and there are some definite scammers out there selling 'solutions'. I can't recommend a proper company though, or say if it's a real problem.
Signed, someone whose friends recently bought a money pit in England, and are now dealing with a leaky chimney plus a collapsed sewer in a listed building that is costing them thousands to mitigate/fix...
posted by NoiselessPenguin at 1:02 PM on March 25 [1 favorite]
I have had a full survey done on a similar age building in England. It was fine but I wouldn't both again unless I had particular concerns with the property. The survey pointed out a lot of minor problems, some of which I addressed and some of which I didn't.
The damp is very unlikely to be actual rising damp and more likely to be condensation or a leak. The electrics will probably need upgrading at some point, which also means that you can add in a more useful amount of plug sockets. Assume any problem will cost at least £1k-£3k to fix.
I would never buy a listed building without a full survey, or anything built before the late 19th century. But that's as much because nearly everything in my city was built after about 1885. If I suspected it might be a money pit I just wouldn't purchase at all.
posted by plonkee at 3:04 PM on March 25
The damp is very unlikely to be actual rising damp and more likely to be condensation or a leak. The electrics will probably need upgrading at some point, which also means that you can add in a more useful amount of plug sockets. Assume any problem will cost at least £1k-£3k to fix.
I would never buy a listed building without a full survey, or anything built before the late 19th century. But that's as much because nearly everything in my city was built after about 1885. If I suspected it might be a money pit I just wouldn't purchase at all.
posted by plonkee at 3:04 PM on March 25
I could take you on a tour of buildings that age and a bit older around here and give you rising damp 101 illustrated with real examples. This is a local document but the physics are the same on your side of the world.
posted by deadwax at 4:18 AM on March 26
posted by deadwax at 4:18 AM on March 26
Rising damp is pretty common in brick-built buildings of that age, as I've found with my own property and the previous one (in England). Often the original DPC material deteriorates, if there ever was any.
In our case, and in most cases I've seen, the damp appears as efflorescence of the brick and plaster, and bubbling of the paint lower on the walls. There's no mould to speak of. Remediation can be as simple as cutting back the first metre of plaster, drilling some holes between the bricks, and injecting a liquid damp-proofing treatment. We paid to get it done the first time, then for the next house I did the work myself (apart from getting someone in to re-plaster). Ten years on there's no sign of the damp. If there's a cavity wall (unlikely in a 1910s building), it's worth getting it checked, to make sure there's no detritus between the walls.
With buildings of that age, you have to factor in some amount of remediation work unless you know the previous owner sorted all the issues out.
posted by pipeski at 4:30 AM on March 26
In our case, and in most cases I've seen, the damp appears as efflorescence of the brick and plaster, and bubbling of the paint lower on the walls. There's no mould to speak of. Remediation can be as simple as cutting back the first metre of plaster, drilling some holes between the bricks, and injecting a liquid damp-proofing treatment. We paid to get it done the first time, then for the next house I did the work myself (apart from getting someone in to re-plaster). Ten years on there's no sign of the damp. If there's a cavity wall (unlikely in a 1910s building), it's worth getting it checked, to make sure there's no detritus between the walls.
With buildings of that age, you have to factor in some amount of remediation work unless you know the previous owner sorted all the issues out.
posted by pipeski at 4:30 AM on March 26
Even if you get a survey done, do not assume that it will suceed in revealing all the problems with the property. I have had surveys of varying levels done on several UK properties over the years, all by qualified and accredited RICS surveyors, and every single one of them missed something significant. Most recently I had a full survey and a separate specific damp survey done on a property with clear damp problems, and neither survey correctly identifed the root issues, and they also missed other significant problems, which we are still working to resolve several years and tens of thousands of pounds later.
If you cannot afford to spend a significant sum remediating issues with this property above any amount suggested in a detailed survey, do not buy it.
I am sure there are good, competent surveyors out there. I wish you the very best of luck in finding one.
posted by tomsk at 7:12 AM on March 26
If you cannot afford to spend a significant sum remediating issues with this property above any amount suggested in a detailed survey, do not buy it.
I am sure there are good, competent surveyors out there. I wish you the very best of luck in finding one.
posted by tomsk at 7:12 AM on March 26
... the building is only 110 years old? This amused me.
A building that old is never going to be perfect unless a lot of money has been spent in the last decade or so and that's going to be reflected in the asking price. To some extent, you need to accept there may be some maintenance required at some stage, but what you have mentioned doesn't sound either urgent or super expensive. I would definitely not be spending thousands on an expensive survey that may or may not reveal actual problems and may or may not give you any idea of the root causes or required solutions if it does.
If you're buying a 110-year-old building, you can't expect perfection unless you're paying big bucks for it. Some imperfection comes with the territory.
posted by dg at 5:28 PM on March 26
A building that old is never going to be perfect unless a lot of money has been spent in the last decade or so and that's going to be reflected in the asking price. To some extent, you need to accept there may be some maintenance required at some stage, but what you have mentioned doesn't sound either urgent or super expensive. I would definitely not be spending thousands on an expensive survey that may or may not reveal actual problems and may or may not give you any idea of the root causes or required solutions if it does.
If you're buying a 110-year-old building, you can't expect perfection unless you're paying big bucks for it. Some imperfection comes with the territory.
posted by dg at 5:28 PM on March 26
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The amount of angst I would have about this is gated by the existence of plumbing (supply/drain) back there that could be leaking, and plumbing on upper floors that could be dripping down, then it would have to come from the outside through walls/foundation.
Or -- maybe someone has been drying clothes in an unventilated room.
Personally if I was stretching my budget to buy the place I'd want to know about my exposure to possible black mould and incipient plumbing disasters before buying. If I was fairly confident I could handle the 5-10K (or more) remediation of a plumbing or foundation leak, I would probably just set some money aside and keep an eye on it.
posted by seanmpuckett at 11:56 AM on March 25