Negotiating clothing choices with a picky kid
March 23, 2024 11:36 AM Subscribe
What are some frameworks for removing conflict around clothing with a grade schooler who gets very invested in specific outfits?
Nearly-tween kid (F) is well-behaved but stubborn, a little oppositional, and with highly specific, changeable and arbitrary aesthetic/fit criteria.
Parent is not generally picky about clothes. They believe in lots of leeway for kids in general, dress for comfort themselves, and are definitely not concerned about style minutiae. However, Parent would like to find a system that does avoid concrete harms from poor dress choices, for instance, by ensuring that (a) the kid doesn't unwittingly go out looking ridiculous in a way that would longer-term have negative impacts on peer relationships at the cusp of adolescence, (b) the kid's presentation is not bad enough to reflect poorly on the family in general, and (c) the kid's clothing is sufficiently situation-appropriate to not damage the clothes, the kid, or the vibe for everybody else (for instance, by later requiring intervention from other adults).
Examples of specific conflicts in question:
* Kid is going to roller rink with friends and wants to wear a heavy sweater and a thick knee-length skirt over pants. The outfit is hot and all the layers look noticeably ridiculous, like a scarecrow. Parent requests removing the skirt since they don't want the friend's parent to have to deal with a visibly uncomfortable kid all through the outing. Child insists they will never be hot and that the skirt looks great. Multiple rounds of debate, kid cries.
*Kid is going to a school event and five minutes before leaving, refuses to wear any of their pants except a very specific pair of play leggings that are stained, baggy and faded. Debate, tears.
*Kid is going on a hike but will only wear thin trainers, a dress and thin tights
*On the day of a school recitation, kid shows up for breakfast wearing a formal costume jewelry set with elaborate rhinestone necklace, bracelet and earrings
Many of these occur during stressful last-minute prep, but when the family has tried setting out pre-approved outfits ahead of time, that system tends to fail in the face of multiple unexpected dressing challenges every week (oh btw we're going on a field trip today/ have a special hat day/ going to X activity tonight/ etc.).
The kid has a few very mild sensory preferences that the parent is aware of and works around; this is not really a sensory thing, more about conflicts between kid's sense of aesthetics vs. parent's sense of function and social appropriateness.
Any good structures that hit a middle ground between family harmony, kid's autonomy, and reasonable outcomes?
Nearly-tween kid (F) is well-behaved but stubborn, a little oppositional, and with highly specific, changeable and arbitrary aesthetic/fit criteria.
Parent is not generally picky about clothes. They believe in lots of leeway for kids in general, dress for comfort themselves, and are definitely not concerned about style minutiae. However, Parent would like to find a system that does avoid concrete harms from poor dress choices, for instance, by ensuring that (a) the kid doesn't unwittingly go out looking ridiculous in a way that would longer-term have negative impacts on peer relationships at the cusp of adolescence, (b) the kid's presentation is not bad enough to reflect poorly on the family in general, and (c) the kid's clothing is sufficiently situation-appropriate to not damage the clothes, the kid, or the vibe for everybody else (for instance, by later requiring intervention from other adults).
Examples of specific conflicts in question:
* Kid is going to roller rink with friends and wants to wear a heavy sweater and a thick knee-length skirt over pants. The outfit is hot and all the layers look noticeably ridiculous, like a scarecrow. Parent requests removing the skirt since they don't want the friend's parent to have to deal with a visibly uncomfortable kid all through the outing. Child insists they will never be hot and that the skirt looks great. Multiple rounds of debate, kid cries.
*Kid is going to a school event and five minutes before leaving, refuses to wear any of their pants except a very specific pair of play leggings that are stained, baggy and faded. Debate, tears.
*Kid is going on a hike but will only wear thin trainers, a dress and thin tights
*On the day of a school recitation, kid shows up for breakfast wearing a formal costume jewelry set with elaborate rhinestone necklace, bracelet and earrings
Many of these occur during stressful last-minute prep, but when the family has tried setting out pre-approved outfits ahead of time, that system tends to fail in the face of multiple unexpected dressing challenges every week (oh btw we're going on a field trip today/ have a special hat day/ going to X activity tonight/ etc.).
The kid has a few very mild sensory preferences that the parent is aware of and works around; this is not really a sensory thing, more about conflicts between kid's sense of aesthetics vs. parent's sense of function and social appropriateness.
Any good structures that hit a middle ground between family harmony, kid's autonomy, and reasonable outcomes?
Why in god’s name are you controlling what your kid is wearing? If they get cold on a hike, lesson learned.
posted by Melismata at 11:43 AM on March 23 [30 favorites]
posted by Melismata at 11:43 AM on March 23 [30 favorites]
Unless the child will experience physical harm from their clothing choice (heatstroke, frostbite, sunburn, etc.), back waaaaaaaay off and let her wear what she wants. In relaxed times, talk with her about dressing in layers and bringing along a favorite hoodie with lighter outfits so if she does get too hot/cool, she has options. If you want to make family rules about "clothes that are stained/faded/have holes are Home Only clothes", this is a good time to do that, but even there, other parents are also having these fights and understand what's going on when they see kids in these clothes.
posted by epj at 11:52 AM on March 23 [22 favorites]
posted by epj at 11:52 AM on March 23 [22 favorites]
Best answer: Yeah, to me only the hike scenario sounds problematic (mostly because of ticks). The rest seem fine. If she wears too many layers for some activity and gets hot - great, she can take them off. If she has too few layers and might get cold - okay, send her with extra stuff to put on if needed. The less of a big deal you make about it, the less her pride will stop her from adjusting her clothes to better fit the situation.
A lot of these sound like your real concern is "(b) the kid's presentation is not bad enough to reflect poorly on the family in general", and I think you absolutely need to let go of that unless she lives in some area where appearing - what, poor? unkempt? - puts her safety at actual, not imaginary risk. Otherwise, anyone who knows kids knows they have personal tastes and aesthetics which might not always look good to their parents. That is normal. And for all you know dressing the way she likes might attract friends on her wavelength more than her dressing the way you like would.
Sometimes I look back at pictures from when I was young and cringe, but I also know that if my parents had tried (harder) to control what I wore, the only thing it would have done is damage our relationship. And frankly, I cringe at pictures where I'm wearing parent-selected stuff too. Neither was a great look for me. Either way, this isn't a worthwhile battle to pick.
posted by trig at 11:53 AM on March 23 [11 favorites]
A lot of these sound like your real concern is "(b) the kid's presentation is not bad enough to reflect poorly on the family in general", and I think you absolutely need to let go of that unless she lives in some area where appearing - what, poor? unkempt? - puts her safety at actual, not imaginary risk. Otherwise, anyone who knows kids knows they have personal tastes and aesthetics which might not always look good to their parents. That is normal. And for all you know dressing the way she likes might attract friends on her wavelength more than her dressing the way you like would.
Sometimes I look back at pictures from when I was young and cringe, but I also know that if my parents had tried (harder) to control what I wore, the only thing it would have done is damage our relationship. And frankly, I cringe at pictures where I'm wearing parent-selected stuff too. Neither was a great look for me. Either way, this isn't a worthwhile battle to pick.
posted by trig at 11:53 AM on March 23 [11 favorites]
I apologize if this isn't exactly what you're looking for, but I was this kid. I wore some pretty crazy stuff in high school and I had a great time doing it. I'm glad that my parents didn't try to stop me, even if I did get some weird looks. I mostly got it out if my system at an age where it wouldn't affect my career and it was a harmless way to rebel.
It's also a mostly harmless way to experience natural consequences. I think in the instance of them thinking the kid will be too warm while skating, it's good to bring up the concern but also good to let the kid make the final decision. As far as worrying what other people would think, I feel like that would just make the kid dig in deeper. I know I would have.
posted by Eyelash at 11:55 AM on March 23 [16 favorites]
It's also a mostly harmless way to experience natural consequences. I think in the instance of them thinking the kid will be too warm while skating, it's good to bring up the concern but also good to let the kid make the final decision. As far as worrying what other people would think, I feel like that would just make the kid dig in deeper. I know I would have.
posted by Eyelash at 11:55 AM on March 23 [16 favorites]
(b) the kid's presentation is not bad enough to reflect poorly on the family in general
So many aspects of my childhood were controlled so that I didn't make my parents look bad (specific yet entirely arbitrary metrics that varied widely based on a number of things but mostly my mom's mood), it was absolutely miserable, and one of the prime contributors to why I don't have much of a relationship with my parents today.
Some specific examples that have stayed with me for 20+ years include:
- I had two buttons of my school dress code polo shirt unbuttoned and mom told me I looked like a slut. After school I confronted her and told her that was uncalled for, and she said she was using the 15th century definition of slut to mean a slovenly unkempt woman, and that she stood by her comment, right.
- "You will not get into college if you wear high top shoes with shorts."
I'm sure you're reading this and thinking that those are ridiculous and you're nothing like that, which may be true, but I assure you your child doesn't see any difference. All your kid hears when you use the "reflect poorly on the family" argument is "you are not good enough for this family and your opinions are not respected here."
Looking like an idiot, feeling hot, feeling cold, getting scrapes from foliage: these are all extremely valuable experiences of childhood and life that create learning opportunities for the future. Your kid can learn these on their own and do just fine in life, I promise.
So here is some actual advice for the only part of your question that holds merit: (c) the kid's clothing is sufficiently situation-appropriate.
Sit down with your kid and their other parent at a neutral time (i.e. NOT WHEN YOU'RE ARGUING) and brainstorm some guidelines as a family for what constitutes appropriate attire for certain situations. Write these down. Create a framework of mutual expectations. Have a list for things like formal events, school ceremonies, athletic activities. Let your child make the list and guide them with questions. Things like "what does special occasion mean to you?" and "what shoes would feel most comfortable for this activity" and "if you are being recognized for your [best school subject], how would you want to present yourself for that?" Whatever situations make sense for your family's life. Then your kid can have these lists of their own rules for when they're getting dressed. Can't get mad at your own rule, right? Reevaluate periodically as needs dictate.
Then please for the love of god let your kid live their life.
I leave you with my favorite photo of myself as a teen. I only saw this photo for the first time in the last couple years as my mom has been cleaning out old boxes. I love myself in this photo. It's the hair I wanted at the time, my favorite shoes, my comfy pants with the cargo pockets, and I look more at ease than I ever felt much as a kid. My parents both hated how I styled my hair, I can recall specific arguments about every single article of clothing, and even my posture wasn't good enough. I look at that photo and I see ME. But I also remember all the bullshit. What a waste.
posted by phunniemee at 12:04 PM on March 23 [52 favorites]
So many aspects of my childhood were controlled so that I didn't make my parents look bad (specific yet entirely arbitrary metrics that varied widely based on a number of things but mostly my mom's mood), it was absolutely miserable, and one of the prime contributors to why I don't have much of a relationship with my parents today.
Some specific examples that have stayed with me for 20+ years include:
- I had two buttons of my school dress code polo shirt unbuttoned and mom told me I looked like a slut. After school I confronted her and told her that was uncalled for, and she said she was using the 15th century definition of slut to mean a slovenly unkempt woman, and that she stood by her comment, right.
- "You will not get into college if you wear high top shoes with shorts."
I'm sure you're reading this and thinking that those are ridiculous and you're nothing like that, which may be true, but I assure you your child doesn't see any difference. All your kid hears when you use the "reflect poorly on the family" argument is "you are not good enough for this family and your opinions are not respected here."
Looking like an idiot, feeling hot, feeling cold, getting scrapes from foliage: these are all extremely valuable experiences of childhood and life that create learning opportunities for the future. Your kid can learn these on their own and do just fine in life, I promise.
So here is some actual advice for the only part of your question that holds merit: (c) the kid's clothing is sufficiently situation-appropriate.
Sit down with your kid and their other parent at a neutral time (i.e. NOT WHEN YOU'RE ARGUING) and brainstorm some guidelines as a family for what constitutes appropriate attire for certain situations. Write these down. Create a framework of mutual expectations. Have a list for things like formal events, school ceremonies, athletic activities. Let your child make the list and guide them with questions. Things like "what does special occasion mean to you?" and "what shoes would feel most comfortable for this activity" and "if you are being recognized for your [best school subject], how would you want to present yourself for that?" Whatever situations make sense for your family's life. Then your kid can have these lists of their own rules for when they're getting dressed. Can't get mad at your own rule, right? Reevaluate periodically as needs dictate.
Then please for the love of god let your kid live their life.
I leave you with my favorite photo of myself as a teen. I only saw this photo for the first time in the last couple years as my mom has been cleaning out old boxes. I love myself in this photo. It's the hair I wanted at the time, my favorite shoes, my comfy pants with the cargo pockets, and I look more at ease than I ever felt much as a kid. My parents both hated how I styled my hair, I can recall specific arguments about every single article of clothing, and even my posture wasn't good enough. I look at that photo and I see ME. But I also remember all the bullshit. What a waste.
posted by phunniemee at 12:04 PM on March 23 [52 favorites]
Nthing that it is really OK for a kid to look ridiculous. It is OK for them to make and stick to and defend their own aesthetic choices. Nothing good for you, the kid, or your relationship will come from you policing their aesthetics. You can insist on clothing that is appropriate for outdoor activities (i.e., prevents kid from freezing to death) and you can insist on clothing that is appropriate for a limited range of important life and culture events (you must wear something grandma would consider appropriate for grandma's funeral). Beyond that, let the kid fly their freak flag.
posted by shadygrove at 12:09 PM on March 23 [13 favorites]
posted by shadygrove at 12:09 PM on March 23 [13 favorites]
I have a 10 yo and a 12 yo. Things I have let go with an eye roll:
- Kid wore her jeans tucked into her socks for a whole year. Yegads.
- Kid routinely paired fancy dresses with baggy jeans.
- Kid slept in next day's clothes, including jeans, every day for a year, looked rumpled every day. To save time.
- Kid hasn't worn a hat in winter for 3 years.
Re: looking stupid, I have full confidence in the ability of pre-teen girls to police each others' fashion choices. No need for me to put my oar in on that account.
Things I have insisted on:
- Sneakers and long pants, not strappy sandals for hiking
- I'm afraid I still ask them once a day "ARE YOU SURE YOU'LL BE WARM ENOUGH". This is my love language.
posted by Omnomnom at 12:23 PM on March 23 [32 favorites]
- Kid wore her jeans tucked into her socks for a whole year. Yegads.
- Kid routinely paired fancy dresses with baggy jeans.
- Kid slept in next day's clothes, including jeans, every day for a year, looked rumpled every day. To save time.
- Kid hasn't worn a hat in winter for 3 years.
Re: looking stupid, I have full confidence in the ability of pre-teen girls to police each others' fashion choices. No need for me to put my oar in on that account.
Things I have insisted on:
- Sneakers and long pants, not strappy sandals for hiking
- I'm afraid I still ask them once a day "ARE YOU SURE YOU'LL BE WARM ENOUGH". This is my love language.
posted by Omnomnom at 12:23 PM on March 23 [32 favorites]
Presumably you had this child not to have an extension of yourself but to add another individual person to your family. So let her be that individual person unless her literal safety is literally at risk.
I still resent my mother for the fights she caused about my clothing choices when I was a pre-teen/teen, and I will turn 54 this year.
posted by cooker girl at 12:31 PM on March 23 [8 favorites]
I still resent my mother for the fights she caused about my clothing choices when I was a pre-teen/teen, and I will turn 54 this year.
posted by cooker girl at 12:31 PM on March 23 [8 favorites]
Let me tell you a story of damage parents can do. When I was 12 I LOVED the Beatles. My dearest wish was to have long straight hair (which I naturally have). I had to wear a school uniform so my hair was my only only chance of self expression. My mother wanted me to wear ringlets like Shirley Temple. My parents cut off my hair by force and put a permanent curl on my hair. I cried for days and attempted suicide. I HATED my parents. I am 71 years old now and I still shake with rage about the "rape" of being forced to conform to my parents version of what I had to look like. By the time I was 27 I was able to talk to them and they still didn't admit they were wrong. My hair is now down to the floor and I will never cut it. The wound has never really healed. Please leave the kid's appearance alone.
posted by a humble nudibranch at 12:43 PM on March 23 [36 favorites]
posted by a humble nudibranch at 12:43 PM on March 23 [36 favorites]
You are fighting battles that don't need fought.
posted by jmsta at 12:47 PM on March 23 [18 favorites]
posted by jmsta at 12:47 PM on March 23 [18 favorites]
The only issue that really sticks out is your hiking situation, for safety reasons. In that case as well as the others I would ask her to bring a bag with her that has a change of clothes that includes appropriate options. For the hiking one, pack pants and better shoes, socks. For the skating sweater skirt thing, the bag can just be a place to store excess layers if she wants to remove them. For the school event one, a longer skirt to go on top of the leggings. For the recital, some other fun accessories that feel special but aren’t gaudy costume jewelry, like a sparkly headband, charm bracelet, fancy shoes.
Let her wear whatever but also make sure she has options if she decides in the moment to change her mind. Maybe make the bags fun and match them with her outfits (go thrifting for bags and scarves and charms to accessorize them with) and encourage her to pack herself options as well as accept the additions you provide. Act completely uninterested if she comes home in a more reasonable outfit than she left wearing, that’s not your business.
Do have a talk about environmental safety and clothing. Stuff like good shoes for hiking, rash guards for days at the beach, pants to protect from bug bites, closed toe shoes in workshops/around machines, safety goggles and ear defenders, stuff like that. She is just turning the age where stuff like sports and working with tools and playing instruments becomes something she can focus on and get intense with, and it’s important to have a strong foundation of safety so she feels confident trying out new activities or more invested ways of doing them. Clarify the difference between clothes as fashion and clothes as protection or potential danger. When it’s a fashion issue, whatever. When it’s a safety issue, that’s a hard line. It seems like all the scenarios you list are fashion issues, assuming her hike was a gentle one. Would she have issues with you insisting she wears snow boots out into a blizzard? That’s the line to draw.
posted by Mizu at 12:50 PM on March 23 [5 favorites]
Let her wear whatever but also make sure she has options if she decides in the moment to change her mind. Maybe make the bags fun and match them with her outfits (go thrifting for bags and scarves and charms to accessorize them with) and encourage her to pack herself options as well as accept the additions you provide. Act completely uninterested if she comes home in a more reasonable outfit than she left wearing, that’s not your business.
Do have a talk about environmental safety and clothing. Stuff like good shoes for hiking, rash guards for days at the beach, pants to protect from bug bites, closed toe shoes in workshops/around machines, safety goggles and ear defenders, stuff like that. She is just turning the age where stuff like sports and working with tools and playing instruments becomes something she can focus on and get intense with, and it’s important to have a strong foundation of safety so she feels confident trying out new activities or more invested ways of doing them. Clarify the difference between clothes as fashion and clothes as protection or potential danger. When it’s a fashion issue, whatever. When it’s a safety issue, that’s a hard line. It seems like all the scenarios you list are fashion issues, assuming her hike was a gentle one. Would she have issues with you insisting she wears snow boots out into a blizzard? That’s the line to draw.
posted by Mizu at 12:50 PM on March 23 [5 favorites]
Best answer: When my kids didn't want to put a jacket on on a cold day, for example, I would try to keep calm and just say, "Let's take it along, just in case." Then, when they asked for it, I would just give it to them without any, "I told you so!" or shaming. This is how I do things in my life. If I'm not sure whether I'll need a jacket, or whether it will get warm enough to take it off later, I bring a bag.
I'm guessing there are many times when a bag would really help. Underdressed to go hiking? "Let's put warm leggings and your sneakers in your backpack." Overdressed to go skating? "Take your backpack. If you decide to take something off, you can always put it in there."
Model this behavior. Even if it's kind of a lie (you know you won't need it) let your kid hear and see you saying, "I'd better put my warm jacket in the car in case it gets cold later."
As for peer effects? Let them play out. Short of bullying, which you should protect them from, a child will learn what kind of reactions peers have to their clothing, and decide whether those reactions are OK with them. I was a really sensitive child, but not all of mine were. I somebody suggested I was dressed weird, it would very much affect me. Some of my kids would have just been like, "Eh,it doesn't bother me."
I once saw a parent give this advice about a tween-ish girl who wanted to wear somewhat revealing clother: let her wear it. It will get her a certain kind of attention. She can decide whether she wants that kind of attention. (Again, while paying attention to make sure she's not preyed upon by an older child or adult.)
I had this experience at about 12 or 13. I had a jumper I thought I could wear as a sleeveless dress. My shoulders would have been very bare. My mother said no. Defying her, one day when I got to school, I took off the t-shirt I was wearing under it. I vividly remember how exposed I felt when I was out among the other middle-schoolers. It didn't take me long to put the t-shirt back on, and I never wore the dress like that again.
One of my kids had a mohawk when she was about 10. It looked great and she liked it, but she decided she didn't enjoy attracting the kind of attention she got with that hairstyle. One of her younger siblings loved doing his hair in, say, bright green dreadlocks with a design cut into the sides. At sixteen, he's multi-tattooed, has several facial piercings, and has gauged ear lobes. She's 22, and favors darker, rather demure clothes. The fanciest thing she does is paint her nails sometimes. They just have different preferences.
I'd say, first, back off from making this a point of conflict. It will take awhile for the kid to figure out you're not arguing about clothes with her anymore, so don't let yourself get caught up if she tries to fight with you. You want to defuse this topic. Then, don't do anything pushier than suggest a bag. She'll figure herself out. And never shame her for ultimately making a choice you agree with. Let her figure stuff out and grow up feeling that you always on her side.
posted by Well I never at 12:54 PM on March 23 [8 favorites]
I'm guessing there are many times when a bag would really help. Underdressed to go hiking? "Let's put warm leggings and your sneakers in your backpack." Overdressed to go skating? "Take your backpack. If you decide to take something off, you can always put it in there."
Model this behavior. Even if it's kind of a lie (you know you won't need it) let your kid hear and see you saying, "I'd better put my warm jacket in the car in case it gets cold later."
As for peer effects? Let them play out. Short of bullying, which you should protect them from, a child will learn what kind of reactions peers have to their clothing, and decide whether those reactions are OK with them. I was a really sensitive child, but not all of mine were. I somebody suggested I was dressed weird, it would very much affect me. Some of my kids would have just been like, "Eh,it doesn't bother me."
I once saw a parent give this advice about a tween-ish girl who wanted to wear somewhat revealing clother: let her wear it. It will get her a certain kind of attention. She can decide whether she wants that kind of attention. (Again, while paying attention to make sure she's not preyed upon by an older child or adult.)
I had this experience at about 12 or 13. I had a jumper I thought I could wear as a sleeveless dress. My shoulders would have been very bare. My mother said no. Defying her, one day when I got to school, I took off the t-shirt I was wearing under it. I vividly remember how exposed I felt when I was out among the other middle-schoolers. It didn't take me long to put the t-shirt back on, and I never wore the dress like that again.
One of my kids had a mohawk when she was about 10. It looked great and she liked it, but she decided she didn't enjoy attracting the kind of attention she got with that hairstyle. One of her younger siblings loved doing his hair in, say, bright green dreadlocks with a design cut into the sides. At sixteen, he's multi-tattooed, has several facial piercings, and has gauged ear lobes. She's 22, and favors darker, rather demure clothes. The fanciest thing she does is paint her nails sometimes. They just have different preferences.
I'd say, first, back off from making this a point of conflict. It will take awhile for the kid to figure out you're not arguing about clothes with her anymore, so don't let yourself get caught up if she tries to fight with you. You want to defuse this topic. Then, don't do anything pushier than suggest a bag. She'll figure herself out. And never shame her for ultimately making a choice you agree with. Let her figure stuff out and grow up feeling that you always on her side.
posted by Well I never at 12:54 PM on March 23 [8 favorites]
Best answer: This is an opportunity to allow your child to learn by experience, and to provide a safety net.
You know, skating is energetic, and I think you will become uncomfortably warm. That's fine, but I'm going to give other parent this bag of lighter clothing to keep in the car just in case you need it.
Those pants are stained and only for use doing messy stuff at home. No. I know you like them, but they are not appropriate.
Women have done all sorts of exercise in a dress and stockings, and a hike in thin trainers is likely to be fine. Learning opportunity with no harm. I would insist on a bottle of water and a fleece or rain jacket.
school recitation I will be extremely annoyed if you take that set off and lose it. I'm putting a ziplock bag with our contact info in your backpack.
a) the kid doesn't unwittingly go out looking ridiculous in a way that would longer-term have negative impacts on peer relationships at the cusp of adolescence, Kids police each other, as noted above.
(b) the kid's presentation is not bad enough to reflect poorly on the family in general. Do not keep ratty, stained clothes. If budget is an issue, get clothes on Buy Nothing. I am so envious of that amazing resource; no Web when I had a kid.
(c) the kid's clothing is sufficiently situation-appropriate to not damage the clothes, the kid, or the vibe for everybody else (for instance, by later requiring intervention from other adults) Label clothes, stuff gets lost. Insist that weather-appropriate clothing be in the backpack. I tried to not have fragile clothing, did not buy clothes with any advertising. As an adult, I try not to own clothing in which I can walk or run, that needs lots of care, that is constricting.
Plan clothes with your kid the night before. Clothes that might be a poor choice could be in the washing machine, but keep that limited.
My friend knitted her child a very beautiful item. Child begged to wear it to school. They did a project that stained the item. School policy was that kids should wear clothes in which they can play hard, do projects, make messes. Everyone was sad, everyone learned something.
I bought my son - age 12? - a pair of mustard yellow baggy shorts. He didn't want to wear them, but one day they were the only shorts available. An older kid said, causally, cool shorts, and then he wore them all the time. I considered paying cool kids for this service.
Shared custody. His Dad started sending him to school, maybe 4th grade or so, in 'edgy' outfits, basically, weird and mismatched. A teacher commented and asked if we needed clothing assistance. Sighed, explained that Dad has 0 ability to dress himself or Kid. I do not worry about how my son's clothes might affect me. If he wears a political sentiment that's not okay, I will destroy that item. Kid's in his 30s, lives w/ gf, but I am dedicated. There's probably still a shirt in a color that doesn't suit him behind a dryer in the house he lived in years ago.
Make a clothing budget, take them shopping, help them learn what clothes cost, how to care for clothes, what looks good on them, what has value.
Choose more important battles, teach your kid to be kind to other kids who dress funny, to give another kid a mitten when they lost theirs, to not succumb to advertising or severe peer pressure.
posted by theora55 at 1:00 PM on March 23 [1 favorite]
You know, skating is energetic, and I think you will become uncomfortably warm. That's fine, but I'm going to give other parent this bag of lighter clothing to keep in the car just in case you need it.
Those pants are stained and only for use doing messy stuff at home. No. I know you like them, but they are not appropriate.
Women have done all sorts of exercise in a dress and stockings, and a hike in thin trainers is likely to be fine. Learning opportunity with no harm. I would insist on a bottle of water and a fleece or rain jacket.
school recitation I will be extremely annoyed if you take that set off and lose it. I'm putting a ziplock bag with our contact info in your backpack.
a) the kid doesn't unwittingly go out looking ridiculous in a way that would longer-term have negative impacts on peer relationships at the cusp of adolescence, Kids police each other, as noted above.
(b) the kid's presentation is not bad enough to reflect poorly on the family in general. Do not keep ratty, stained clothes. If budget is an issue, get clothes on Buy Nothing. I am so envious of that amazing resource; no Web when I had a kid.
(c) the kid's clothing is sufficiently situation-appropriate to not damage the clothes, the kid, or the vibe for everybody else (for instance, by later requiring intervention from other adults) Label clothes, stuff gets lost. Insist that weather-appropriate clothing be in the backpack. I tried to not have fragile clothing, did not buy clothes with any advertising. As an adult, I try not to own clothing in which I can walk or run, that needs lots of care, that is constricting.
Plan clothes with your kid the night before. Clothes that might be a poor choice could be in the washing machine, but keep that limited.
My friend knitted her child a very beautiful item. Child begged to wear it to school. They did a project that stained the item. School policy was that kids should wear clothes in which they can play hard, do projects, make messes. Everyone was sad, everyone learned something.
I bought my son - age 12? - a pair of mustard yellow baggy shorts. He didn't want to wear them, but one day they were the only shorts available. An older kid said, causally, cool shorts, and then he wore them all the time. I considered paying cool kids for this service.
Shared custody. His Dad started sending him to school, maybe 4th grade or so, in 'edgy' outfits, basically, weird and mismatched. A teacher commented and asked if we needed clothing assistance. Sighed, explained that Dad has 0 ability to dress himself or Kid. I do not worry about how my son's clothes might affect me. If he wears a political sentiment that's not okay, I will destroy that item. Kid's in his 30s, lives w/ gf, but I am dedicated. There's probably still a shirt in a color that doesn't suit him behind a dryer in the house he lived in years ago.
Make a clothing budget, take them shopping, help them learn what clothes cost, how to care for clothes, what looks good on them, what has value.
Choose more important battles, teach your kid to be kind to other kids who dress funny, to give another kid a mitten when they lost theirs, to not succumb to advertising or severe peer pressure.
posted by theora55 at 1:00 PM on March 23 [1 favorite]
Please do this experiment: what is life and your relationship like if you just 100% let this go for 6 weeks? Try it. After that if you want to go back to policing clothing, go for it. But I bet you will find that your worries of familial shame and child frostbite were overblown, and the benefits to the relationship and your own wellbeing are worth an occasional inward cringe at your kids' weird fashion sense.
posted by Ausamor at 1:08 PM on March 23 [7 favorites]
posted by Ausamor at 1:08 PM on March 23 [7 favorites]
Kid will learn the hard way--and it sounds like they are determined to--on wearing weird clothing. It's not worth the fight on that one. If they wear fancy jewelry to a school event, what's the harm? If they embarrass themselves in sad pathetic leggings, then by god, they are determined to do that. I have one friend who wears humongous layers, then complains she's hot, but she doesn't exactly wear anything under the layers where she can take off the gigantic sweatshirt and pants to cool off either. To which I'm all, that's on you, girl, I told you to wear a T-shirt under that hoodie, but you would not.
I'd only say anything about the clothing if it's really practically inappropriate for the situation, like wearing high heels on a hike or a miniskirt to the skating rink, or ticks are involved. Bring extra clothes for when the kid inevitably figures out the consequences of their actions in not taking a coat.
posted by jenfullmoon at 1:30 PM on March 23 [1 favorite]
I'd only say anything about the clothing if it's really practically inappropriate for the situation, like wearing high heels on a hike or a miniskirt to the skating rink, or ticks are involved. Bring extra clothes for when the kid inevitably figures out the consequences of their actions in not taking a coat.
posted by jenfullmoon at 1:30 PM on March 23 [1 favorite]
Mod note: Comment removed. Please avoid piling on the OP, thanks.
posted by Brandon Blatcher (staff) at 1:35 PM on March 23 [3 favorites]
posted by Brandon Blatcher (staff) at 1:35 PM on March 23 [3 favorites]
Best answer: It’s called the blunder years for a reason. Let them explore self expression now; they are figuring out their identity. Also, the styles we wore at the time I promise you looked equally ridiculous to our parents but since we were genX they ignored it.
I agree on some light rules
- smelly/stained/thin clothes are for home only, or better yet replaced.
- truly formal events eg, grandmas funeral or uncles wedding or family portrait require appropriate discussion and agreement (don’t tell them what to wear, just let them know the guidelines - color, skirt height whatever)
- we have one rule, no ripped jeans on the first week of a new school year. I get it’s a style choice but look somewhat respectful for your teacher the first week.
She sounds like she’s experimenting with style and I’m here for it. Wearing costume jewelry for a recital is actually her way of dressing up!
posted by St. Peepsburg at 1:38 PM on March 23 [2 favorites]
I agree on some light rules
- smelly/stained/thin clothes are for home only, or better yet replaced.
- truly formal events eg, grandmas funeral or uncles wedding or family portrait require appropriate discussion and agreement (don’t tell them what to wear, just let them know the guidelines - color, skirt height whatever)
- we have one rule, no ripped jeans on the first week of a new school year. I get it’s a style choice but look somewhat respectful for your teacher the first week.
She sounds like she’s experimenting with style and I’m here for it. Wearing costume jewelry for a recital is actually her way of dressing up!
posted by St. Peepsburg at 1:38 PM on March 23 [2 favorites]
*On the day of a school recitation, kid shows up for breakfast wearing a formal costume jewelry set with elaborate rhinestone necklace, bracelet and earrings
This sounds fun and awesome! Why on earth would you try to stop them from dressing up for their recitation?
The other ones, well, if they got hot skating they can take the sweater off if they're wearing a t-shirt under it. And if not... are they going to get heatstroke and go to the hospital? No? Then let them wear it. Who cares if they look like a scarecrow? They're a kid, not a senator preparing for a press conference.
Same with hiking. If they are going to be cold hiking, bring some warmer layers they could put on. If ticks are an issue, brainstorm options where they can keep their style but also protect ankles etc from tick bites. Maybe explore appropriate PPE for different activities by taking a carpentry class together or something.
Otherwise, maybe ask yourself why you are controlling what your kid is wearing when it's not a safety issue? If you give them autonomy and only step in if it's a genuine safety issue (which I don't see any of here, with the possible exception of needing to carry extra layers in a backpack for a hike that might be cold or rainy, and/or wear gaiters or legwarmers to keep off ticks), I bet you'll get a much better reception from your kiddo.
posted by cnidaria at 2:14 PM on March 23 [3 favorites]
This sounds fun and awesome! Why on earth would you try to stop them from dressing up for their recitation?
The other ones, well, if they got hot skating they can take the sweater off if they're wearing a t-shirt under it. And if not... are they going to get heatstroke and go to the hospital? No? Then let them wear it. Who cares if they look like a scarecrow? They're a kid, not a senator preparing for a press conference.
Same with hiking. If they are going to be cold hiking, bring some warmer layers they could put on. If ticks are an issue, brainstorm options where they can keep their style but also protect ankles etc from tick bites. Maybe explore appropriate PPE for different activities by taking a carpentry class together or something.
Otherwise, maybe ask yourself why you are controlling what your kid is wearing when it's not a safety issue? If you give them autonomy and only step in if it's a genuine safety issue (which I don't see any of here, with the possible exception of needing to carry extra layers in a backpack for a hike that might be cold or rainy, and/or wear gaiters or legwarmers to keep off ticks), I bet you'll get a much better reception from your kiddo.
posted by cnidaria at 2:14 PM on March 23 [3 favorites]
Every time kid shows up and you have a thought of what they are wearing, their hair cut or colour, their body, whatever related to appearance, you have two choices of expression:
a) Say nothing.
b) Kid, you look good.
That's it.
My credentials: Parent who did everything wrong. Best friend whose parent did everything right (the above). Guess who grew up with a healthy, loving relationship with their parent?
posted by nanook at 2:27 PM on March 23 [13 favorites]
a) Say nothing.
b) Kid, you look good.
That's it.
My credentials: Parent who did everything wrong. Best friend whose parent did everything right (the above). Guess who grew up with a healthy, loving relationship with their parent?
posted by nanook at 2:27 PM on March 23 [13 favorites]
If you limit your interventions to only when there truly is a health-and-safety issue, you may find them less difficult when you do need them. Appropriate footwear for hiking: a health and safety issue. The roller rink: kid can take off extra layer in the bathroom if too warm, and who cares if they look like a scarecrow?
posted by Stacey at 2:34 PM on March 23 [4 favorites]
posted by Stacey at 2:34 PM on March 23 [4 favorites]
Best answer: Little e has had some weird aesthetic phases. In preschool and maybe kindergarten she liked to layer clothes with the longer layer underneath. Yes, like the 1990s “long undershirt under tee” thing, but also “leggings under jean shorts.” She called it [Name] Style and was absurdly proud of it. She grew out of that. Then for a hot minute in second grade she was super into clip-on ties. When she had a big day at school she would show up in this thrifted babydoll-pink blazer and a tie. She looked absolutely ridiculous, but also kind of cute. Did we pay a price for it socially, you know, I would not put it past people but oh well. We had enough to worry about and we were absolutely not going to fight this one. The people whose opinions mattered left us alone. Now, at eleven, dare I say I actually love her fashion sense? Over time and with experimentation she’s developed a reasonable sense of what things look good with what other things.
We do draw some mild lines that annoy her still. Generally it’s stuff like formal dress codes and safety. If a teacher tells us “please send them in concert black / nice shoes / something that can get dirty” we follow those rules and explain why. This past week we had an argument about the rule that the hiking club leader set about wearing jeans (leggings suck to remove burrs from), but compromised on sticking some jeans in her backpack. The ability to compromise keeps the heat of arguments relatively low. I would recommend that you think about whether you can afford to loosen some of your strictures and maybe turn some of the aesthetic stuff into suggestions. I think you’re allowed to offer social feedback too, just as her peers can, but if you are able to keep it at a level short of diktat, it may be more effective long term, even if short-term your child continues to make choices that make them look silly.
You’re at a funny age — sometimes those “pre-tweens” can seem pretty mature much of the time, and then they’ll melt down in tears over something small. Hopefully this frustrating phase doesn’t last too long.
posted by eirias at 2:35 PM on March 23 [1 favorite]
We do draw some mild lines that annoy her still. Generally it’s stuff like formal dress codes and safety. If a teacher tells us “please send them in concert black / nice shoes / something that can get dirty” we follow those rules and explain why. This past week we had an argument about the rule that the hiking club leader set about wearing jeans (leggings suck to remove burrs from), but compromised on sticking some jeans in her backpack. The ability to compromise keeps the heat of arguments relatively low. I would recommend that you think about whether you can afford to loosen some of your strictures and maybe turn some of the aesthetic stuff into suggestions. I think you’re allowed to offer social feedback too, just as her peers can, but if you are able to keep it at a level short of diktat, it may be more effective long term, even if short-term your child continues to make choices that make them look silly.
You’re at a funny age — sometimes those “pre-tweens” can seem pretty mature much of the time, and then they’ll melt down in tears over something small. Hopefully this frustrating phase doesn’t last too long.
posted by eirias at 2:35 PM on March 23 [1 favorite]
Best answer: As the parent, I find it tremendously useful to just ask my child why they want to wear a given thing. Not judgementally, "why in the world would you ever?" but just seeking insight. And then I explain my reasoning, taking into account their own goals, and invite a reply. Often that truly helps us find acceptable common ground, including things like packing spare clothes but often enough actual outfits we are both genuinely okay with.
The rhinestone jewelry example in particular struck me as a time when my kid would probably explain that a recitation is an event where people wear fancy things, and that the jewelry that to adult eyes may be so costume-y is to them beautiful and completely appropriate. Maybe the kid in this question would take it a different direction and say they are deliberately thwarting expectations but still, it's an opportunity for conversation instead of a fight. If they think it's lovely and perfect, I might gently mention that some people may see it a different way, just as a fact so they're aware of the possibility, but I might also just leave it alone because really this is all arbitrary and the reasons it's "costume" jewelry are all tied up in classism and exploitation and racism et cetera and I'm not about enforcing those beliefs on anyone else's behalf. And if the kid were doing it to be contrary, well, why? What's chafing so much that this is the form their discontent takes? How else could they express the same thing? Or do they have a point, even?
"All behavior is communication" is something that gets repeated a lot in certain parenting circles/guides, and I have really come to believe it. Rather than focus on who's right–the child, the parent, everyone here in comments including me–instead focus on building the relationship by understanding what's going on for them. Their values are not necessarily the same as the parent's, and that can be tough, but talking things out really might help everyone. And although it probably sounds like this isn't a strategy for the heat of the moment, they actually might find it's substantially faster and more effective both short- and long-term than escalating tensions has been.
posted by teremala at 3:23 PM on March 23 [5 favorites]
The rhinestone jewelry example in particular struck me as a time when my kid would probably explain that a recitation is an event where people wear fancy things, and that the jewelry that to adult eyes may be so costume-y is to them beautiful and completely appropriate. Maybe the kid in this question would take it a different direction and say they are deliberately thwarting expectations but still, it's an opportunity for conversation instead of a fight. If they think it's lovely and perfect, I might gently mention that some people may see it a different way, just as a fact so they're aware of the possibility, but I might also just leave it alone because really this is all arbitrary and the reasons it's "costume" jewelry are all tied up in classism and exploitation and racism et cetera and I'm not about enforcing those beliefs on anyone else's behalf. And if the kid were doing it to be contrary, well, why? What's chafing so much that this is the form their discontent takes? How else could they express the same thing? Or do they have a point, even?
"All behavior is communication" is something that gets repeated a lot in certain parenting circles/guides, and I have really come to believe it. Rather than focus on who's right–the child, the parent, everyone here in comments including me–instead focus on building the relationship by understanding what's going on for them. Their values are not necessarily the same as the parent's, and that can be tough, but talking things out really might help everyone. And although it probably sounds like this isn't a strategy for the heat of the moment, they actually might find it's substantially faster and more effective both short- and long-term than escalating tensions has been.
posted by teremala at 3:23 PM on March 23 [5 favorites]
I think you have to make sure they are clean, in clothes with no holes, and not going to freeze or overheat to death, and that’s all you can do. Save the direct vetos for only very important things like graduation and funerals.
posted by haptic_avenger at 3:27 PM on March 23 [3 favorites]
posted by haptic_avenger at 3:27 PM on March 23 [3 favorites]
FYI, this is going to be the summer of skirts over trousers/jeans. I live near some decrepit buildings that are popular backdrops for influencer photo shoots, and that is a thing that is happening.
It’s reasonable to set rules around cleanliness, not about fashion.
posted by betweenthebars at 3:28 PM on March 23 [5 favorites]
It’s reasonable to set rules around cleanliness, not about fashion.
posted by betweenthebars at 3:28 PM on March 23 [5 favorites]
This kid sounds amazing: creative, flamboyant, fun, and delightfully weird. Protecting our kids from natural consequences doesn’t serve us or them in the long run. They need space to stretch their wings and be in charge, and clothes are an excellent method of expression. I would like to gently suggest that this parent is pretty pick about clothes, and controlling, and needs to let go. Stop fighting this battle.
The stakes get higher, and you are potentially hurting an opportunity to be your kid’s biggest cheerleader and supporter.
I’m sorry you are embarrassed by this kid. I think it would be great for you to explore that in therapy and figure out where that comes from and how you can move past it.
posted by bluedaisy at 3:41 PM on March 23 [11 favorites]
The stakes get higher, and you are potentially hurting an opportunity to be your kid’s biggest cheerleader and supporter.
I’m sorry you are embarrassed by this kid. I think it would be great for you to explore that in therapy and figure out where that comes from and how you can move past it.
posted by bluedaisy at 3:41 PM on March 23 [11 favorites]
Best answer: I was going to suggest Catholic school.
Uniforms and sensible shoes. lol
They are an early-tween kid (F).
They are still kids at that age.
They are playing dress up.
They are playing i am a grown up.
This is how they learn, through play.
Unless it's potentially harmful, , hiking, winter etc let them play.
Let them explore.
For formal events, for visiting Aunt Sally in hospital , provide guidance.
But its guidance not orders.
Let them make their ( non critical ) mistakes.
They are still cute at that age.
They will be teenagers soon enough
Do you have any idea how many hair colours a teenage girl can go through in a month?
Did you know green , pink , purple are legitimate hair colours?
Anyways, enjoy your time with them. Treasure it.
posted by yyz at 4:15 PM on March 23 [1 favorite]
Uniforms and sensible shoes. lol
They are an early-tween kid (F).
They are still kids at that age.
They are playing dress up.
They are playing i am a grown up.
This is how they learn, through play.
Unless it's potentially harmful, , hiking, winter etc let them play.
Let them explore.
For formal events, for visiting Aunt Sally in hospital , provide guidance.
But its guidance not orders.
Let them make their ( non critical ) mistakes.
They are still cute at that age.
They will be teenagers soon enough
Do you have any idea how many hair colours a teenage girl can go through in a month?
Did you know green , pink , purple are legitimate hair colours?
Anyways, enjoy your time with them. Treasure it.
posted by yyz at 4:15 PM on March 23 [1 favorite]
I was also a lot like this kid and many of my thoughts have already been covered. I wanted to tease out this idea a bit more, since you list it first:
(a) the kid doesn't unwittingly go out looking ridiculous in a way that would longer-term have negative impacts on peer relationships at the cusp of adolescence
Your kid can't really control what she gets bullied about. To suggest otherwise approaches victim-blaming. When you express this concern, she may be hearing things like "If you just make the correct choices to protect yourself, you can avoid negative attention and bullying." i.e. "If you receive negative attention or bullying, there is something you could have done to prevent it and you failed." Was I bullied for what I wore? Sure. Was I also bullied for physical characteristics I couldn't control? Of course.
In fact, based on my own experience I suspect the opposite of your concern may be true. The more she's allowed to express herself, the easier it might be to find the friends who will like her for who she actually is.
posted by doift at 5:01 PM on March 23 [16 favorites]
(a) the kid doesn't unwittingly go out looking ridiculous in a way that would longer-term have negative impacts on peer relationships at the cusp of adolescence
Your kid can't really control what she gets bullied about. To suggest otherwise approaches victim-blaming. When you express this concern, she may be hearing things like "If you just make the correct choices to protect yourself, you can avoid negative attention and bullying." i.e. "If you receive negative attention or bullying, there is something you could have done to prevent it and you failed." Was I bullied for what I wore? Sure. Was I also bullied for physical characteristics I couldn't control? Of course.
In fact, based on my own experience I suspect the opposite of your concern may be true. The more she's allowed to express herself, the easier it might be to find the friends who will like her for who she actually is.
posted by doift at 5:01 PM on March 23 [16 favorites]
I agree with everyone that if it's a safety issue, then yes, that needs to be addressed. But beyond that, let her be.
Kids have so little power in their lives. Allowing her to choose her own clothes is giving her a little bit of power that she deserves. And fortunately, looking "weird" is such a low-stakes thing for everyone. (Plus, getting to dress weird as a child is one of the few times one can get away with it. I personally adore when I see kids wearing odd things out in public because why not?)
posted by edencosmic at 5:26 PM on March 23 [2 favorites]
Kids have so little power in their lives. Allowing her to choose her own clothes is giving her a little bit of power that she deserves. And fortunately, looking "weird" is such a low-stakes thing for everyone. (Plus, getting to dress weird as a child is one of the few times one can get away with it. I personally adore when I see kids wearing odd things out in public because why not?)
posted by edencosmic at 5:26 PM on March 23 [2 favorites]
Best answer: Gently, I think it would be revealing to consider how well you have communicated your wishes around what your child wears with them up to now.
I mention this because it is unclear even to me, an educated adult who works with children, what you want your child to consciously avoid wearing, or at least what you would like them to develop an eye for in terms of outfit selection.
For example, I am sure you are aware that children and teenagers are very literal, lack adult capacity for foresight, and require adult help to understand everything outside their daily experience. With this in mind, are you sure your child could explain to you, without prompting, what “concrete harms”, “longer-term negative impacts”, “reflect poorly on the family in general”, “situation-appropriate” and “damage…the vibe” mean in this section of your question?
Parent would like to find a system that does avoid concrete harms from poor dress choices, for instance, by ensuring that (a) the kid doesn't unwittingly go out looking ridiculous in a way that would longer-term have negative impacts on peer relationships at the cusp of adolescence, (b) the kid's presentation is not bad enough to reflect poorly on the family in general, and (c) the kid's clothing is sufficiently situation-appropriate to not damage the clothes, the kid, or the vibe for everybody else (for instance, by later requiring intervention from other adults).
You can see how abstract some of that is as an adult, and you’d definitely have to break this down a lot for a child or teenager, perhaps to the point of meaninglessness. Let’s take the part about their clothing choices reflecting badly on you and the rest of the family as an example. If you showed your child this section of your question and asked them to explain it to you, might it be possible that they would assume that it would be impossible for anything they wore to “reflect badly on the family in general” because they are a member of the family and do not feel any sort of negativity from the people with them while they are wearing their outfit? Do they think about families as being sites of negative judgement they must try to minimize for the benefit of the social reputations of their siblings and parents? Do they think that “in general” here means your child’s whole family, from third cousins to long-dead great aunts to their siblings, would be suffering equally from their choice to wear rhinestones?
Of course, if you can’t answer these questions either, then you would probably benefit from really nailing down what you will demand your child comply with versus what you’d like to have them choose to do of their own volition.
Now, to actually answer your question: here are some ideas to support your child in planning, designing, and assembling outfits where their emerging sense of style and your requirements/desires to protect them overlap while also incorporating some fun and creativity:
- to the extent possible, really (dramatically, even) increasing the budget and time spent on your child’s clothing, footwear and accessory selection, primarily doing this by moving away from what can be found new at retail shops or online and moving toward second-hand, recycled, thrifted, traded, or even handmade items, ideally framing this as a constant process of positive tactile and sensory social experiences (“Hey, you know that barbecue we’re having in a few weeks? I noticed you and your friends had so many fun ideas about what to wear to the recitation that I thought you might want to invite some of them over to do a clothing swap that afternoon and then have them stay for dinner — what do you think?”)
- asking your child if they’d be interested in your help picking up the basics of sewing, mending and garment repair, especially as it sounds like some of their sartorial choices may already incorporate vintage pieces; a few books from the library and a small sewing kit might be a fun and easy way to start
- working with your child way in advance of their move to middle school after this/next summer to learn about the middle school’s dress code and record visually (drawing/sketching?) how to express themselves fully but in ways that are within the rules
- having your child see that adults also don’t know what to wear surprisingly often by involving them in your choices and thought processes, especially if you work in a setting with a lot of (to a child) unknowable and unknown social rules about how you dress (“Do you have a sec? I have a long meeting tomorrow with my boss’ boss, and while normally I would wear something a little more formal than I normally do like a nice dress shirt, the office is freezing cold. I’m thinking about wearing this sweater with these trousers, but I can’t decide if the colors work. Can you help me decide?”)
- getting your child more involved in the laundry and clothes-care system your family uses so they know how to care for the items they have, especially anything they’d really like to protect by hand-washing; even if you have a washer and dryer and a ton of space to fold and store clothing, your child may enjoy discovering the joy (really!) of delicately washing a beloved garment in the sink, wringing it out, hanging it up to dry on an outdoor line or a folding clothes rack, and then neatly folding or hanging it so it stays pristine — here, Marie Kondo’s first book, The Life-Changing Magic of Tidying Up, may be of use, as it suggests an extremely simple and frankly very kid-friendly system to fold, store and hang clothing and accessories
A final note: you describe a child who is, with the same brain, sometimes unable to demonstrate a level of self-awareness around their physical comfort in terms of what they wear while also putting a lot of time into whimsical and deeply satisfying special-occasion outfits while also scrambling to manage conflict with you and their last-minute outfit changes as the school bus turns onto your street after neglecting to mention that today is 19th Century Hat Day at school while also seeming, to you, unwilling (but perhaps actually being unable?) to plan their clothing choices so as to minimize the discomfort of others — while also communicating with you with a layer of pre-teen stubbornness and emotional investment that you present, perhaps not intentionally, as being rather unreasonable, or at least sufficiently outside your expectations to warrant mention here.
To me, this reminds me of nothing so much as ADHD: the time blindness that makes leaving home appropriately dressed an unusually stressful experience, the foresight blindness beyond that expected for children their age, the deep desire to be seen as competent and put together not being met with a level of execution that convinces others of their success in this, and the shock and disappointment at being told you have got something you were absolutely sure was right — after all, aren’t these rhinestones gorgeous? — completely wrong. You know your child and we don’t, but it might be worth thinking about whether you see the same patterns in other domains of your child’s life. There’s a lot out there on kids with ADHD and executive functioning; this two-part video from Dr Russell Barkley (Youtube: Part 1, Part 2) may be helpful.
Good luck! I hope clothing becomes a part of your child’s life in which they feel great security and comfort both inside and outside their home.
posted by mdonley at 5:34 PM on March 23 [6 favorites]
I mention this because it is unclear even to me, an educated adult who works with children, what you want your child to consciously avoid wearing, or at least what you would like them to develop an eye for in terms of outfit selection.
For example, I am sure you are aware that children and teenagers are very literal, lack adult capacity for foresight, and require adult help to understand everything outside their daily experience. With this in mind, are you sure your child could explain to you, without prompting, what “concrete harms”, “longer-term negative impacts”, “reflect poorly on the family in general”, “situation-appropriate” and “damage…the vibe” mean in this section of your question?
Parent would like to find a system that does avoid concrete harms from poor dress choices, for instance, by ensuring that (a) the kid doesn't unwittingly go out looking ridiculous in a way that would longer-term have negative impacts on peer relationships at the cusp of adolescence, (b) the kid's presentation is not bad enough to reflect poorly on the family in general, and (c) the kid's clothing is sufficiently situation-appropriate to not damage the clothes, the kid, or the vibe for everybody else (for instance, by later requiring intervention from other adults).
You can see how abstract some of that is as an adult, and you’d definitely have to break this down a lot for a child or teenager, perhaps to the point of meaninglessness. Let’s take the part about their clothing choices reflecting badly on you and the rest of the family as an example. If you showed your child this section of your question and asked them to explain it to you, might it be possible that they would assume that it would be impossible for anything they wore to “reflect badly on the family in general” because they are a member of the family and do not feel any sort of negativity from the people with them while they are wearing their outfit? Do they think about families as being sites of negative judgement they must try to minimize for the benefit of the social reputations of their siblings and parents? Do they think that “in general” here means your child’s whole family, from third cousins to long-dead great aunts to their siblings, would be suffering equally from their choice to wear rhinestones?
Of course, if you can’t answer these questions either, then you would probably benefit from really nailing down what you will demand your child comply with versus what you’d like to have them choose to do of their own volition.
Now, to actually answer your question: here are some ideas to support your child in planning, designing, and assembling outfits where their emerging sense of style and your requirements/desires to protect them overlap while also incorporating some fun and creativity:
- to the extent possible, really (dramatically, even) increasing the budget and time spent on your child’s clothing, footwear and accessory selection, primarily doing this by moving away from what can be found new at retail shops or online and moving toward second-hand, recycled, thrifted, traded, or even handmade items, ideally framing this as a constant process of positive tactile and sensory social experiences (“Hey, you know that barbecue we’re having in a few weeks? I noticed you and your friends had so many fun ideas about what to wear to the recitation that I thought you might want to invite some of them over to do a clothing swap that afternoon and then have them stay for dinner — what do you think?”)
- asking your child if they’d be interested in your help picking up the basics of sewing, mending and garment repair, especially as it sounds like some of their sartorial choices may already incorporate vintage pieces; a few books from the library and a small sewing kit might be a fun and easy way to start
- working with your child way in advance of their move to middle school after this/next summer to learn about the middle school’s dress code and record visually (drawing/sketching?) how to express themselves fully but in ways that are within the rules
- having your child see that adults also don’t know what to wear surprisingly often by involving them in your choices and thought processes, especially if you work in a setting with a lot of (to a child) unknowable and unknown social rules about how you dress (“Do you have a sec? I have a long meeting tomorrow with my boss’ boss, and while normally I would wear something a little more formal than I normally do like a nice dress shirt, the office is freezing cold. I’m thinking about wearing this sweater with these trousers, but I can’t decide if the colors work. Can you help me decide?”)
- getting your child more involved in the laundry and clothes-care system your family uses so they know how to care for the items they have, especially anything they’d really like to protect by hand-washing; even if you have a washer and dryer and a ton of space to fold and store clothing, your child may enjoy discovering the joy (really!) of delicately washing a beloved garment in the sink, wringing it out, hanging it up to dry on an outdoor line or a folding clothes rack, and then neatly folding or hanging it so it stays pristine — here, Marie Kondo’s first book, The Life-Changing Magic of Tidying Up, may be of use, as it suggests an extremely simple and frankly very kid-friendly system to fold, store and hang clothing and accessories
A final note: you describe a child who is, with the same brain, sometimes unable to demonstrate a level of self-awareness around their physical comfort in terms of what they wear while also putting a lot of time into whimsical and deeply satisfying special-occasion outfits while also scrambling to manage conflict with you and their last-minute outfit changes as the school bus turns onto your street after neglecting to mention that today is 19th Century Hat Day at school while also seeming, to you, unwilling (but perhaps actually being unable?) to plan their clothing choices so as to minimize the discomfort of others — while also communicating with you with a layer of pre-teen stubbornness and emotional investment that you present, perhaps not intentionally, as being rather unreasonable, or at least sufficiently outside your expectations to warrant mention here.
To me, this reminds me of nothing so much as ADHD: the time blindness that makes leaving home appropriately dressed an unusually stressful experience, the foresight blindness beyond that expected for children their age, the deep desire to be seen as competent and put together not being met with a level of execution that convinces others of their success in this, and the shock and disappointment at being told you have got something you were absolutely sure was right — after all, aren’t these rhinestones gorgeous? — completely wrong. You know your child and we don’t, but it might be worth thinking about whether you see the same patterns in other domains of your child’s life. There’s a lot out there on kids with ADHD and executive functioning; this two-part video from Dr Russell Barkley (Youtube: Part 1, Part 2) may be helpful.
Good luck! I hope clothing becomes a part of your child’s life in which they feel great security and comfort both inside and outside their home.
posted by mdonley at 5:34 PM on March 23 [6 favorites]
nthing what most folks have said. I’m in my 50s and am still grateful that my parents’ ethics in relation to freedom of expression trumped (mostly) any other concerns (mom did make me wear hats, which i hated and got bullied for, as it seriously never occurred to me to just take the damn things off at school).
as a very young kid, I routinely wore dresses over pants long before that was a look. as a middle-schooler after a very brief preppy phase, I insisted on a “mod” mullet (and then had to grow it out which took ages).
as a high schooler I turned goth (before goth when it was just ‘alternative’) and wore a ton of black and white make-up with Robert Smith-like crimped hair and elaborate silk dressing gowns over black jeans while expecting teachers to keep a straight face (I was very serious about school).
i was not the perfect kid, but for the most part had a good relationship with my folks, who while a bit anxious, are thankfully low-drama (which helped me mostly be the same during raging hormone time). the freedom was so important to my self-esteem, even when other kids thought I was weird. (i was, and I found my crowd with - surprise- theatre people.) my mom did draw the line at going topless outdoors in the summer after 6 years old, which I remember even at the time thinking was stupid and sexist. But in general, I was awkward, goofy, and “interesting”. Now I’m proudly eccentric even when posing as a norm. kudos to your kid and your parenting that provides them the space for self-expression !
posted by mollymillions at 8:06 PM on March 23 [2 favorites]
as a very young kid, I routinely wore dresses over pants long before that was a look. as a middle-schooler after a very brief preppy phase, I insisted on a “mod” mullet (and then had to grow it out which took ages).
as a high schooler I turned goth (before goth when it was just ‘alternative’) and wore a ton of black and white make-up with Robert Smith-like crimped hair and elaborate silk dressing gowns over black jeans while expecting teachers to keep a straight face (I was very serious about school).
i was not the perfect kid, but for the most part had a good relationship with my folks, who while a bit anxious, are thankfully low-drama (which helped me mostly be the same during raging hormone time). the freedom was so important to my self-esteem, even when other kids thought I was weird. (i was, and I found my crowd with - surprise- theatre people.) my mom did draw the line at going topless outdoors in the summer after 6 years old, which I remember even at the time thinking was stupid and sexist. But in general, I was awkward, goofy, and “interesting”. Now I’m proudly eccentric even when posing as a norm. kudos to your kid and your parenting that provides them the space for self-expression !
posted by mollymillions at 8:06 PM on March 23 [2 favorites]
Best answer: The things that struck me is that you are giving options that are unacceptable to you. I don’t know how old your child is but with my admittedly smaller children I only give them options I’d be happy with, regardless of how they put it together.
I remove clothing that is in poor condition (faded, don’t fit well, stained beyond repair). I remove clothing that do not fit properly. I store clothing that is not seasonally appropriate (dresses and shorts are put into storage in the winter). If you can reduce your objections to some clear rules (“wear what keeps you safe.”) you may have less battles and more successes.
The costume jewellery for the recital sounds pretty fun to be honest, I would let that go and be their opportunity to express their personality. Most of the time I’m fine with what they choose even if they look “ridiculous”. We should all be a bit more fearless with fashion.
posted by like_neon at 8:20 AM on March 24 [1 favorite]
I remove clothing that is in poor condition (faded, don’t fit well, stained beyond repair). I remove clothing that do not fit properly. I store clothing that is not seasonally appropriate (dresses and shorts are put into storage in the winter). If you can reduce your objections to some clear rules (“wear what keeps you safe.”) you may have less battles and more successes.
The costume jewellery for the recital sounds pretty fun to be honest, I would let that go and be their opportunity to express their personality. Most of the time I’m fine with what they choose even if they look “ridiculous”. We should all be a bit more fearless with fashion.
posted by like_neon at 8:20 AM on March 24 [1 favorite]
I'm a weird dresser and I have been bullied off and on all my life. But almost never for my clothes.
posted by jenfullmoon at 8:54 AM on March 24
posted by jenfullmoon at 8:54 AM on March 24
Best answer: As a parent of four, I did way too much policing of my tween's clothing choices, mainly because 'OMG, what will anybody think of ME as a parent?' This was when ours was a pretty conservative Idaho town.
As a parent of teens, I gave it up. I should have done it earlier. I had silent vapors over low cut and too short clothing, but the school had a dress code, and I let them police. Kids shortly figured it out. I gagged at the amount of makeup. The kids figured it out, what was too much, what was not enough, via peer pressure and the cost of the goo. Kids wore too much or not enough clothes; they figured it out when they got hot, cold, or generally uncomfortable. Mentioning ticks before hiking and camping, and then later getting ticks taught them about suitable clothes and bug spray.
My youngest son went through So. Many. iterations his freshman and junior years. He ran with all the different crowds--goths, stoners, cowboys, preps. Black eye shadow, dyed hair, pants down to the knees, cowboy boots, hat, snap buttoned shirt, khaki pants. tasseled shoes, and preppy shirts with buttoned/pointed collars. The only things that were irreversible were the pierced ear and the home-done tats on the knuckles. He only wore the earring for about a year, and the tats have faded and just never were a thing to the rest of the world. The oldest son wore the same style of jeans, black t-shirts, and the same hoodie all through high school. The girls tried out different things, with the oldest being more girly and conservative, and the youngest more of a tomboy and occasionally pushing the envelope in sartorial elegance.
I think allowing them to make those kinds of minor decisions gave them skills to make better decisions with the difficult stuff. I saved my breath to talk about serious business--sex and pregnancy, drugs, responsible drinking--meaning NO DRIVING, safe driving in general, things that would involve law enforcement, the need for life skills, and the importance of a job. They knew that these things would affect their future, but even going barefoot and wearing a tutu to school one day wouldn't matter in the long run.
We had our moments, they weren't perfect kids, but they were fun then and are nice adults who support themselves and are successful members of their communities. They all appear dress appropriately.
posted by BlueHorse at 9:34 AM on March 24 [5 favorites]
As a parent of teens, I gave it up. I should have done it earlier. I had silent vapors over low cut and too short clothing, but the school had a dress code, and I let them police. Kids shortly figured it out. I gagged at the amount of makeup. The kids figured it out, what was too much, what was not enough, via peer pressure and the cost of the goo. Kids wore too much or not enough clothes; they figured it out when they got hot, cold, or generally uncomfortable. Mentioning ticks before hiking and camping, and then later getting ticks taught them about suitable clothes and bug spray.
My youngest son went through So. Many. iterations his freshman and junior years. He ran with all the different crowds--goths, stoners, cowboys, preps. Black eye shadow, dyed hair, pants down to the knees, cowboy boots, hat, snap buttoned shirt, khaki pants. tasseled shoes, and preppy shirts with buttoned/pointed collars. The only things that were irreversible were the pierced ear and the home-done tats on the knuckles. He only wore the earring for about a year, and the tats have faded and just never were a thing to the rest of the world. The oldest son wore the same style of jeans, black t-shirts, and the same hoodie all through high school. The girls tried out different things, with the oldest being more girly and conservative, and the youngest more of a tomboy and occasionally pushing the envelope in sartorial elegance.
I think allowing them to make those kinds of minor decisions gave them skills to make better decisions with the difficult stuff. I saved my breath to talk about serious business--sex and pregnancy, drugs, responsible drinking--meaning NO DRIVING, safe driving in general, things that would involve law enforcement, the need for life skills, and the importance of a job. They knew that these things would affect their future, but even going barefoot and wearing a tutu to school one day wouldn't matter in the long run.
We had our moments, they weren't perfect kids, but they were fun then and are nice adults who support themselves and are successful members of their communities. They all appear dress appropriately.
posted by BlueHorse at 9:34 AM on March 24 [5 favorites]
There are WAY more important battles to pick here. Let Child wear what they want and experience the (expected) consequences. They will decide quickly what is more important to them.
posted by tafetta, darling! at 11:24 AM on March 24
posted by tafetta, darling! at 11:24 AM on March 24
Best answer: This is a great chance to build relationships and help your child continue to develop autonomy. Pick clothes together ahead of time, and be super supportive of your kiddo's choices. Go through her clothes together and help her decide which items can be tossed (like those leggings) or should only be worn for pajamas. Pick outfits together that are going to be great for unique occasions like hiking. Let your daughter lead the way and as much as possible, give her the final say.
Kids can be mean. Kids might be mean to your daughter because of her clothing. Or they may see her as fashion forward and admire it. Your job is to be there to support her either way.
Finally, remember that girls' appearances are judged constantly, and the lessons they learn at this age about what they're allowed to do to express themselves OR what they are or aren't allowed to do with their own bodies stay with them. There will be enough people in her life judging and labeling her based on her appearance; let yourself be a source of support and kindness in the face of all these opinions coming at her.
In just one example of weird things my mom said or did about my looks, in the days of wearing tank tops under every shirt (we all did that, right? right???), my mom used to literally feel the straps under my shirt if we hugged or notice the second shirt sticking out, and would question why I was wearing a second shirt. It made me super self conscious and uncomfortable. Now I am a grown up and have serious anxiety about what she's going to say about how I dress. I'm not saying this will happen with you and your daughter...but this isn't even an extreme example.
posted by violetish at 10:20 AM on March 25
Kids can be mean. Kids might be mean to your daughter because of her clothing. Or they may see her as fashion forward and admire it. Your job is to be there to support her either way.
Finally, remember that girls' appearances are judged constantly, and the lessons they learn at this age about what they're allowed to do to express themselves OR what they are or aren't allowed to do with their own bodies stay with them. There will be enough people in her life judging and labeling her based on her appearance; let yourself be a source of support and kindness in the face of all these opinions coming at her.
In just one example of weird things my mom said or did about my looks, in the days of wearing tank tops under every shirt (we all did that, right? right???), my mom used to literally feel the straps under my shirt if we hugged or notice the second shirt sticking out, and would question why I was wearing a second shirt. It made me super self conscious and uncomfortable. Now I am a grown up and have serious anxiety about what she's going to say about how I dress. I'm not saying this will happen with you and your daughter...but this isn't even an extreme example.
posted by violetish at 10:20 AM on March 25
the kid doesn't unwittingly go out looking ridiculous in a way that would longer-term have negative impacts on peer relationships at the cusp of adolescence
It seems like just before adolescence is a great time to get any learning about feeling like one looks ridiculous out of the way. Eventually one needs to learn to dress themselves. Other kids aren't likely to remember any ridiculous outfit for long, other kids will also wear ridiculous outfits.
It's also likely that other kids aren't bringing the adult level of judgement to this that you are.
On the day of a school recitation, kid shows up for breakfast wearing a formal costume jewelry set with elaborate rhinestone necklace, bracelet and earrings
I googled since I didn't know what a recitation was and it sounds like it's basically a discussion class instead of a lecture class? Seems like a fine thing to wear.
If instead you meant a recital, the sort of thing where one is expected to wear a specific costume and no additional jewelry or personal touches -- well it's perfectly fine to wear jewelry to to breakfast! One should not put on a costume for a performance until getting to the venue and it's certainly a bad idea to wear one while eating. So a person can wear whatever they like until then, as long as it's not something that will stain or damage other people's costumes. Usually the teacher covers this, I'm assuming that if you were not given any sort of paper about what you needed to do for costuming that the teachers feel taking care of the costume by not wearing it to breakfast would be the responsibility of the student.
Some people like to dress up before the time comes to put on the recital costume, introduce her to how to appropriately store her personal items in a bag when changing, and what sort of container would be appropriate for storing the jewelry. I'm assuming its not overly valuable jewelry since you describe it as costume jewelry.
posted by yohko at 10:44 PM on March 25
It seems like just before adolescence is a great time to get any learning about feeling like one looks ridiculous out of the way. Eventually one needs to learn to dress themselves. Other kids aren't likely to remember any ridiculous outfit for long, other kids will also wear ridiculous outfits.
It's also likely that other kids aren't bringing the adult level of judgement to this that you are.
On the day of a school recitation, kid shows up for breakfast wearing a formal costume jewelry set with elaborate rhinestone necklace, bracelet and earrings
I googled since I didn't know what a recitation was and it sounds like it's basically a discussion class instead of a lecture class? Seems like a fine thing to wear.
If instead you meant a recital, the sort of thing where one is expected to wear a specific costume and no additional jewelry or personal touches -- well it's perfectly fine to wear jewelry to to breakfast! One should not put on a costume for a performance until getting to the venue and it's certainly a bad idea to wear one while eating. So a person can wear whatever they like until then, as long as it's not something that will stain or damage other people's costumes. Usually the teacher covers this, I'm assuming that if you were not given any sort of paper about what you needed to do for costuming that the teachers feel taking care of the costume by not wearing it to breakfast would be the responsibility of the student.
Some people like to dress up before the time comes to put on the recital costume, introduce her to how to appropriately store her personal items in a bag when changing, and what sort of container would be appropriate for storing the jewelry. I'm assuming its not overly valuable jewelry since you describe it as costume jewelry.
posted by yohko at 10:44 PM on March 25
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I'd probably roll my eyes after suggesting more practical clothes for things like hiking, etc, but other than that probably would allow every one of these to slide.
posted by beccaj at 11:40 AM on March 23 [24 favorites]