Regulate Regulate
February 14, 2024 9:37 AM Subscribe
Have you learned to regulate your emotions and your emotional responses to unkind comments or insults? I need help.
I need help with coping strategies for managing my emotions. My main triggers are mean or disapproving comments directed at me. I often struggle to let these comments go, experiencing prolonged periods of distress lasting hours or even days.
Criticism from loved ones or strangers doesn't affect me as deeply, but I find it difficult to brush off similar comments from a particular coworker whom I perceive as harsh and judgmental. This individual serves as my primary trigger.
I'm currently undergoing therapy, although after five sessions, I sometimes feel disillusioned and hopeless about overcoming this tendency to be rattled by others.
I often contemplate quitting my job to avoid these triggers, but I recognize the impracticality of such a decision. Despite the challenges, my job provides decent pay, good hours, and valuable benefits accumulated over my tenure with the company. Transitioning to a similar role elsewhere isn't feasible.
I tend to overanalyze situations and am introspective, seeking to understand the root causes behind my emotions and behaviors. People have described me as cerebral, logical, sensitive, and guarded. I suspect I may have attention-related issues, possibly influenced by my father's similar sensitivity to comments.
At work, I feel vulnerable and judged, leading me to withhold personal information to avoid criticism, especially from the coworker who frequently undermines me. Despite understanding the need to let go of others' opinions, I struggle to control my emotional reactions.
Instances like overhearing my coworker's derogatory comments exacerbate my distress, prompting me to consider medication or a potential personality disorder, though I don't fully align with diagnostic criteria for conditions like BPD, HPD, or Bipolar disorder.
Despite these challenges, I am not suicidal, engage responsibly with my family, abstain from substance use, and fulfill my professional duties, albeit with some avoidance behaviors.
I'm seeking guidance on coping mechanisms to manage my reactions to comments, alleviate distress, and reduce personalization of criticism. Additionally, I'm uncertain about the underlying cause of my emotional sensitivity and where to focus my efforts in addressing this issue.
I need help with coping strategies for managing my emotions. My main triggers are mean or disapproving comments directed at me. I often struggle to let these comments go, experiencing prolonged periods of distress lasting hours or even days.
Criticism from loved ones or strangers doesn't affect me as deeply, but I find it difficult to brush off similar comments from a particular coworker whom I perceive as harsh and judgmental. This individual serves as my primary trigger.
I'm currently undergoing therapy, although after five sessions, I sometimes feel disillusioned and hopeless about overcoming this tendency to be rattled by others.
I often contemplate quitting my job to avoid these triggers, but I recognize the impracticality of such a decision. Despite the challenges, my job provides decent pay, good hours, and valuable benefits accumulated over my tenure with the company. Transitioning to a similar role elsewhere isn't feasible.
I tend to overanalyze situations and am introspective, seeking to understand the root causes behind my emotions and behaviors. People have described me as cerebral, logical, sensitive, and guarded. I suspect I may have attention-related issues, possibly influenced by my father's similar sensitivity to comments.
At work, I feel vulnerable and judged, leading me to withhold personal information to avoid criticism, especially from the coworker who frequently undermines me. Despite understanding the need to let go of others' opinions, I struggle to control my emotional reactions.
Instances like overhearing my coworker's derogatory comments exacerbate my distress, prompting me to consider medication or a potential personality disorder, though I don't fully align with diagnostic criteria for conditions like BPD, HPD, or Bipolar disorder.
Despite these challenges, I am not suicidal, engage responsibly with my family, abstain from substance use, and fulfill my professional duties, albeit with some avoidance behaviors.
I'm seeking guidance on coping mechanisms to manage my reactions to comments, alleviate distress, and reduce personalization of criticism. Additionally, I'm uncertain about the underlying cause of my emotional sensitivity and where to focus my efforts in addressing this issue.
I am not a therapist, I do not go to therapy. I am a middle-aged wallflower who can also be rattled by criticism but who also is noticeably running out of fucks to give.
Dont. Let. Them. Win. Don't let this person make you quit your job. Don't let this person make you think you should be on medication or have an official diagnosis of something. It's normal to feel bad when you overhear someone talking about you. We're taught that it's unkind to do that kind of thing. You are not broken or need to overanalyze the situation.
You want to know what stopped a colleague from talking about me where I can overhear them? My popping my head around the cubicle wall immediately after I heard it and saying, "Can I help you? I heard you mention me." They stammered and said nothing and I heard not one thing again. I was shaking inside, I still shake inside when thinking about but the behavior stopped and my quality of life improved. Even if you feel like you cannot confront them kindly, don't let them win.
posted by kimberussell at 9:58 AM on February 14 [44 favorites]
Dont. Let. Them. Win. Don't let this person make you quit your job. Don't let this person make you think you should be on medication or have an official diagnosis of something. It's normal to feel bad when you overhear someone talking about you. We're taught that it's unkind to do that kind of thing. You are not broken or need to overanalyze the situation.
You want to know what stopped a colleague from talking about me where I can overhear them? My popping my head around the cubicle wall immediately after I heard it and saying, "Can I help you? I heard you mention me." They stammered and said nothing and I heard not one thing again. I was shaking inside, I still shake inside when thinking about but the behavior stopped and my quality of life improved. Even if you feel like you cannot confront them kindly, don't let them win.
posted by kimberussell at 9:58 AM on February 14 [44 favorites]
Would you describe this person as an excellent judge of character? Do you have any reason to think they have unique and special insight into your personality that you don’t possess? No. This person is simply a fucking asshole, and their “judgements” of “you” are neither actual judgements nor do they have anything to do with you as a person. Stop looking for meaning in their comments and try to process it as meaningless chimp noises, which is essentially what they are.
posted by showbiz_liz at 10:16 AM on February 14 [8 favorites]
posted by showbiz_liz at 10:16 AM on February 14 [8 favorites]
This probably will not be the type of advice you're looking for, and for sure not the only kind you need, but it has made an astounding difference to me: Save your money. I'm in a similar situation, with decent pay, good benefits, in a niche line of work with extremely difficult people and can't easily leave. The more I save, the less these people bother me, and the act of saving money itself gives me a feeling of agency. Also, once I had a decent pile of FU money, it emboldened me to take steps at work to change the situation, so the problem people are now behaving more respectfully. For me, anyway, the root of the issue was a feeling of being powerless. I'm not saying don't work on the interpersonal relations side of it too, but there is no downside to making it so that you are not dependent on assholes for financial security. Nothing I could spend that money on could bring me as much serenity as knowing that it's truly my choice to stay and I can walk out whenever I want.
posted by HotToddy at 10:17 AM on February 14 [17 favorites]
posted by HotToddy at 10:17 AM on February 14 [17 favorites]
Learning about rejection sensitive dysphoria, which is linked to ADHD and other types of neurodivergence, helped me immensely.
posted by stellaluna at 10:18 AM on February 14 [20 favorites]
posted by stellaluna at 10:18 AM on February 14 [20 favorites]
I think managing your reactions can be overrated. Like, you don't want to let mean or inappropropriate comments from co-workers ruin your day. But also, you don't have to get down on yourself for being bothered by them. There's feeling bad, and then there is feelling bad about feeling bad. The second one is totally unnecessary.
A lot of times I think adults make children think their feelings are bad and wrong, when it would be better to teach them that there are no bad or wrong feelings, only more and less productive ways of dealing with them. If you grow up with pressure to feel a certain way, in can be internalized. If this is an issue you might have, you could find it liberting to fully experience your negative reaction. ("Wow, that was a really shitty thing that person said! They really managed to press my buttons!") And then, go about your day.
posted by BibiRose at 10:24 AM on February 14 [14 favorites]
A lot of times I think adults make children think their feelings are bad and wrong, when it would be better to teach them that there are no bad or wrong feelings, only more and less productive ways of dealing with them. If you grow up with pressure to feel a certain way, in can be internalized. If this is an issue you might have, you could find it liberting to fully experience your negative reaction. ("Wow, that was a really shitty thing that person said! They really managed to press my buttons!") And then, go about your day.
posted by BibiRose at 10:24 AM on February 14 [14 favorites]
I think the secret lies in understanding and accepting that you are okay, there is nothing wrong with you, no, really, there is nothing wrong with you.
It's normal for you to feel bad when someone is dissing you. Feeling bad isn't proof that you are out of control or that there is something wrong with you.
It's normal to feel so bad that you need to go to the bathroom and have a cry about it, or you need to scream into a pillow the moment you get home, or your face gets red and you sputter in embarrassment right there in the office where people can see you, etc. These are all normal reactions and none of them mean that there is something wrong with you.
It's normal for you to feel off-balance and question yourself when faced with vocal disapproval from other people. It's normal that your self-esteem took a hit from overhearing that crap. It doesn't mean you're weak or that your psyche is not strong enough. It's a very normal human reaction.
It's normal for you to fuck up sometimes and do things that piss other people off. It doesn't mean you're a waste of a human being who deserves to be gossiped about by a mean co-worker, you know? People make mistakes and those who experience the downsides of your mistakes should take the issue up with you, hopefully in a constructive way. Neither your mistake nor being confronted directly about it is the end of the world. It's normal. It happens.
It's normal that some people around you dislike you and say bad things about you. It's not the mark of an extraordinarily horrible person that you have a hater - it's a pretty common and ordinary human experience to have haters in your life, even if you are nice and lovely and normal and totally average as a person.
Like, right now, you're telling yourself all these stories about The Grand Meaning Of This Situation which is why you're being thrown for a loop. You're telling yourself, omg, this person hates me, maybe that means I deserve hate and I am a horrible human? Oh no, wait, why am I letting this person get to me, I should be more calm and I should be able to "take" their disses without questioning myself. Oh no, oh no, oh no, look at me, I'm spiraling, maybe this means I am weak and maybe - oh gosh - is this a sign that I have a personality disorder? Surely if I was a good and strong and healthy human being, none of this would bother me? But wait, maybe if I was a good and strong and healthy human, that person probably wouldn't hate me so much either? So there IS something wrong with me regardless of which side the truth lies. Oh no, oh no, there is something wrong with me.
You can nope out of this thought loop. It's okay. It's ALL okay. Everything that is happening to you is normal. Everything you are feeling is normal. None of this is a sign that you are bad or broken. Breathe in deep, breathe out slow. These are all just feelings. They will pass. You will get a handle on how bad this feels, and you will begin to cope. You are a fine specimen of a human being who is capable of learning and growth all on your own. Give yourself grace. You're going through something that makes all of us feel pretty bad, no matter how tough and healthy we may be.
posted by MiraK at 10:26 AM on February 14 [14 favorites]
It's normal for you to feel bad when someone is dissing you. Feeling bad isn't proof that you are out of control or that there is something wrong with you.
It's normal to feel so bad that you need to go to the bathroom and have a cry about it, or you need to scream into a pillow the moment you get home, or your face gets red and you sputter in embarrassment right there in the office where people can see you, etc. These are all normal reactions and none of them mean that there is something wrong with you.
It's normal for you to feel off-balance and question yourself when faced with vocal disapproval from other people. It's normal that your self-esteem took a hit from overhearing that crap. It doesn't mean you're weak or that your psyche is not strong enough. It's a very normal human reaction.
It's normal for you to fuck up sometimes and do things that piss other people off. It doesn't mean you're a waste of a human being who deserves to be gossiped about by a mean co-worker, you know? People make mistakes and those who experience the downsides of your mistakes should take the issue up with you, hopefully in a constructive way. Neither your mistake nor being confronted directly about it is the end of the world. It's normal. It happens.
It's normal that some people around you dislike you and say bad things about you. It's not the mark of an extraordinarily horrible person that you have a hater - it's a pretty common and ordinary human experience to have haters in your life, even if you are nice and lovely and normal and totally average as a person.
Like, right now, you're telling yourself all these stories about The Grand Meaning Of This Situation which is why you're being thrown for a loop. You're telling yourself, omg, this person hates me, maybe that means I deserve hate and I am a horrible human? Oh no, wait, why am I letting this person get to me, I should be more calm and I should be able to "take" their disses without questioning myself. Oh no, oh no, oh no, look at me, I'm spiraling, maybe this means I am weak and maybe - oh gosh - is this a sign that I have a personality disorder? Surely if I was a good and strong and healthy human being, none of this would bother me? But wait, maybe if I was a good and strong and healthy human, that person probably wouldn't hate me so much either? So there IS something wrong with me regardless of which side the truth lies. Oh no, oh no, there is something wrong with me.
You can nope out of this thought loop. It's okay. It's ALL okay. Everything that is happening to you is normal. Everything you are feeling is normal. None of this is a sign that you are bad or broken. Breathe in deep, breathe out slow. These are all just feelings. They will pass. You will get a handle on how bad this feels, and you will begin to cope. You are a fine specimen of a human being who is capable of learning and growth all on your own. Give yourself grace. You're going through something that makes all of us feel pretty bad, no matter how tough and healthy we may be.
posted by MiraK at 10:26 AM on February 14 [14 favorites]
Response by poster: It would be helpful in providing any advice if you could provide some examples of the kinds of unkind comments and insults you're talking about.
I overheard her telling a coworker that I had emotional problems and that I'm not as calm as I seem. I was within earshot. She could see me, and I am convinced she wanted me to hear. She's talked about me to coworkers, knows things about my life, and has brought them up later in an unkind way. She told me I was disrespectful to my parents when I revealed some childhood trauma and family stuff. She crosses boundaries, can be corrective, and wants to be a reformer on all sorts of things I do—my work, my politics—when I want to tell her to stay in her lane. She recently asked me if I wanted to go on Ozempic or if I have thought about it. My BMI is in the overweight category and not obese. I don't care what my body is; it's an intrusive and personal thing to ask, and I think she was trying to intentionally rattle me. She nitpicks and corrects small mistakes when they could easily be fixed or not mentioned, as I often fix her mistakes without saying a word. I think she's trying to rattle me because she's miserable, and she knows I can become rattled.
It still hurts my feelings tremendously. I stopped talking. I don't tell her anything, but it slips out here and there because I'm trying to be normal, and I work with other people and lots of clients. I am too old for this. I should know how to stand up for myself.
A very recent interaction: I brought in a leftover dessert to work, and it was revealed that my adult kids didn't take it home, and both of them declined. I mentioned that my youngest son is into fitness and thinks he's overweight when he's definitely not, and he didn't want it, and she said, "what about (older son's name)?" That triggered me because she knows my older son isn't as fit or struggles with weight from photos. And I just told her that they both didn't want the leftover dessert. Then I went all nice and people-pleaser and said maybe they wish they had it today, and she said, "Yeah," and that whole interaction upset me greatly, and I was in turmoil for the entire evening.
I told her I was reading a certain nonfiction/biography title, and she asked some questions about it, and I said I don't know yet that I was in the very beginnings. She then Googled it and told me the answers to her questions.
Please advise. Is this irrational on my part? Am I going crazy? This is the sort of thing I don't want to bring home with me or care about.
I can't put it into words. It's her tone, her questions. She's upset about a lot—the news, the culture. She has a very judgmental way about her. She's perfectionistic, and I can be too maybe, but I'm not unkind. There isn't a lot of goodwill.
posted by loveandhappiness at 10:31 AM on February 14 [1 favorite]
I overheard her telling a coworker that I had emotional problems and that I'm not as calm as I seem. I was within earshot. She could see me, and I am convinced she wanted me to hear. She's talked about me to coworkers, knows things about my life, and has brought them up later in an unkind way. She told me I was disrespectful to my parents when I revealed some childhood trauma and family stuff. She crosses boundaries, can be corrective, and wants to be a reformer on all sorts of things I do—my work, my politics—when I want to tell her to stay in her lane. She recently asked me if I wanted to go on Ozempic or if I have thought about it. My BMI is in the overweight category and not obese. I don't care what my body is; it's an intrusive and personal thing to ask, and I think she was trying to intentionally rattle me. She nitpicks and corrects small mistakes when they could easily be fixed or not mentioned, as I often fix her mistakes without saying a word. I think she's trying to rattle me because she's miserable, and she knows I can become rattled.
It still hurts my feelings tremendously. I stopped talking. I don't tell her anything, but it slips out here and there because I'm trying to be normal, and I work with other people and lots of clients. I am too old for this. I should know how to stand up for myself.
A very recent interaction: I brought in a leftover dessert to work, and it was revealed that my adult kids didn't take it home, and both of them declined. I mentioned that my youngest son is into fitness and thinks he's overweight when he's definitely not, and he didn't want it, and she said, "what about (older son's name)?" That triggered me because she knows my older son isn't as fit or struggles with weight from photos. And I just told her that they both didn't want the leftover dessert. Then I went all nice and people-pleaser and said maybe they wish they had it today, and she said, "Yeah," and that whole interaction upset me greatly, and I was in turmoil for the entire evening.
I told her I was reading a certain nonfiction/biography title, and she asked some questions about it, and I said I don't know yet that I was in the very beginnings. She then Googled it and told me the answers to her questions.
Please advise. Is this irrational on my part? Am I going crazy? This is the sort of thing I don't want to bring home with me or care about.
I can't put it into words. It's her tone, her questions. She's upset about a lot—the news, the culture. She has a very judgmental way about her. She's perfectionistic, and I can be too maybe, but I'm not unkind. There isn't a lot of goodwill.
posted by loveandhappiness at 10:31 AM on February 14 [1 favorite]
Dialectical Behavior Therapy is a form of therapy designed to help folks with regulating big emotions. You might find a DBT work book a helpful tool.
https://www.mcleanhospital.org/essential/dbt
posted by forkisbetter at 10:37 AM on February 14 [4 favorites]
https://www.mcleanhospital.org/essential/dbt
posted by forkisbetter at 10:37 AM on February 14 [4 favorites]
Wow. Your co-worker is really, really, out of line. I would talk to HR/your manager - you have a right to not be bullied and treated in such an unprofessional manner in your work place. This isn't your problem, it's management's problem to solve.
posted by coffeecat at 10:37 AM on February 14 [40 favorites]
posted by coffeecat at 10:37 AM on February 14 [40 favorites]
The two interactions you describe in detail (the leftover dessert and her questions about the book you are reading) don't seem to be inappropriate *on the surface* but I believe you when you say that the interaction feels like it's overloaded with other hidden meanings and insinuations. It's certainly obvious that this person does not like you and judges you quite harshly. That sucks. She's definitely a hater.
The tricky aspect of this is, given that you have explicitly invited her into your personal life by sharing it with her, you may not have a leg to stand on when you accuse her of crossing boundaries when she makes personal comments in response to what you have shared. There are comments you say she makes unprompted which do sound as if they cross a line in terms of professionalism, but equally, the fact that you shared these personal details with her was also outside the lines of professionalism, so I'm not sure how that plays out from the perspective of an HR complaint. It's just too murky, IMO.
The best thing for you to do would be to stop sharing any personal information with this co-worker. Do not tell her about your childhood trauma, or your children, or what books you are reading. The more you share, the more you are inviting her into your personal life, and the more leeway she gets to comment on your personal life in ways that you find hurtful. So stop telling her personal stuff.
You may want to look into the "grey rock" method, that may be the best way forward for you.
posted by MiraK at 10:39 AM on February 14 [19 favorites]
The tricky aspect of this is, given that you have explicitly invited her into your personal life by sharing it with her, you may not have a leg to stand on when you accuse her of crossing boundaries when she makes personal comments in response to what you have shared. There are comments you say she makes unprompted which do sound as if they cross a line in terms of professionalism, but equally, the fact that you shared these personal details with her was also outside the lines of professionalism, so I'm not sure how that plays out from the perspective of an HR complaint. It's just too murky, IMO.
The best thing for you to do would be to stop sharing any personal information with this co-worker. Do not tell her about your childhood trauma, or your children, or what books you are reading. The more you share, the more you are inviting her into your personal life, and the more leeway she gets to comment on your personal life in ways that you find hurtful. So stop telling her personal stuff.
You may want to look into the "grey rock" method, that may be the best way forward for you.
posted by MiraK at 10:39 AM on February 14 [19 favorites]
First thing to do is stop talking to her. Stop telling her things about yourself and your family. If she asks you a direct personal question, smile, say, "No, thanks," and leave if you can.
posted by Dolley at 10:43 AM on February 14 [24 favorites]
posted by Dolley at 10:43 AM on February 14 [24 favorites]
Yes, it's absolutely possible. Like a muscle, like any habit, like walking, or exercise, you can build a kind of non-reactiveness and equanimity that allows you to be centered.
Many different practices have this -- but generally, calm, repetitive bodily movement (yoga, walking, exercise, etc) and meditation can be life-changing in altering how you might respond to a situation. A 10-day vipassana meditation retreat changed my life; Mefi Mail me if you have questions about this.
It's likely that the comments the other person are making are affecting you strongly because: some part of their comment resonates with a thought you already hold. The less you're aware of this belief, and the less you've processed that belief, the more easy it is to get activated when someone talks about it.
For example; let's say, deep down, you're worried that you're inefficient about your work. But this thought is something that you're trying your best NOT to think about, so you push it to the side, because it makes you uncomfortable and stressed. Most of your day, you work while spending energy pushing this thought to the side. But when someone comments: "you're so slow!", all of a sudden, this concern of yours is brought to the fore, and and all of the stress and discomfort you had around it suddenly becomes activated, all at once.
There are some approaches to this. One is to attempt to solve the approach with action - to try to 'fix' the issue (e.g, by becoming 'efficient'). This could work, for the time being, but in the long term, you might feel like your work is being driven by what you feel discomfort about than what you feel desiring about.
Another approach, and the one I have been seeking to follow, is to become familiar with the practice of 'noticing' -- observing without trying to change an outcome. If you spend time noticing your own discomfort about inefficiency (to continue the example), you could spend less time pushing this thought to the side, but looking at it directly. You could notice your feelings of discomfort. You could be able to accept where you currently are: 'okay, whether or not this is true, I hold stress around the fact that I believe that I'm less than efficient at working'. You could have compassion for yourself at feeling the way that you do.
Then, when someone makes a hurtful comment -- you could separate out the part that resonates with you, with the part of their intention that is intending to be hurtful. Maybe what they said has some truth! In which you could say, 'thank you', and go about folding this new knowledge into your life. Maybe what they said does not have truth, and they're just trying to be hurtful! In which you could try to have compassion for the fact that, they must be trying to hurtful because they, too, have their own anxieties, fears, and hurts.
This is generally a mix of what's called 'shadow work', equanimity practice, radical acceptance.
Noticing itself is a kind of muscle. Over time, you can relax in the gap between observation and reaction, and become less reactive, more observant, more neutral to what others might say.
--
On preview, reading your most recent comment sounds like there's something about her tone that particularly activates you. It's likely that some part of her reminds you of your shadow -- an aspect of yourself that you're denying, or that you dislike.
My radical suggestion is to try to spend sometime in meditation, or sitting quietly, and trying to 'love' this person. This is called lovingkindness meditation. The idea is to love the part of yourself that you're reminded of when you see her. The more you can allow yourself that love, the less you can work with compassion for yourself and her.
To be clear, I am NOT saying "her actions are okay", or that "you're the problem". I am saying that a positive way to frame this is that you, yourself, is the person you can love and care about, and that this person represents a part of yourself that might need some love.
You don't have to spend more time with her, or to tolerate her; perhaps keeping your distance while doing this practice might be better.
For more info - see Radical Acceptance by Tara Brach, The Untethered Soul by Michael Singer, etc. Good luck! Happy to talk more about this.
posted by many more sunsets at 10:43 AM on February 14 [10 favorites]
Many different practices have this -- but generally, calm, repetitive bodily movement (yoga, walking, exercise, etc) and meditation can be life-changing in altering how you might respond to a situation. A 10-day vipassana meditation retreat changed my life; Mefi Mail me if you have questions about this.
It's likely that the comments the other person are making are affecting you strongly because: some part of their comment resonates with a thought you already hold. The less you're aware of this belief, and the less you've processed that belief, the more easy it is to get activated when someone talks about it.
For example; let's say, deep down, you're worried that you're inefficient about your work. But this thought is something that you're trying your best NOT to think about, so you push it to the side, because it makes you uncomfortable and stressed. Most of your day, you work while spending energy pushing this thought to the side. But when someone comments: "you're so slow!", all of a sudden, this concern of yours is brought to the fore, and and all of the stress and discomfort you had around it suddenly becomes activated, all at once.
There are some approaches to this. One is to attempt to solve the approach with action - to try to 'fix' the issue (e.g, by becoming 'efficient'). This could work, for the time being, but in the long term, you might feel like your work is being driven by what you feel discomfort about than what you feel desiring about.
Another approach, and the one I have been seeking to follow, is to become familiar with the practice of 'noticing' -- observing without trying to change an outcome. If you spend time noticing your own discomfort about inefficiency (to continue the example), you could spend less time pushing this thought to the side, but looking at it directly. You could notice your feelings of discomfort. You could be able to accept where you currently are: 'okay, whether or not this is true, I hold stress around the fact that I believe that I'm less than efficient at working'. You could have compassion for yourself at feeling the way that you do.
Then, when someone makes a hurtful comment -- you could separate out the part that resonates with you, with the part of their intention that is intending to be hurtful. Maybe what they said has some truth! In which you could say, 'thank you', and go about folding this new knowledge into your life. Maybe what they said does not have truth, and they're just trying to be hurtful! In which you could try to have compassion for the fact that, they must be trying to hurtful because they, too, have their own anxieties, fears, and hurts.
This is generally a mix of what's called 'shadow work', equanimity practice, radical acceptance.
Noticing itself is a kind of muscle. Over time, you can relax in the gap between observation and reaction, and become less reactive, more observant, more neutral to what others might say.
--
On preview, reading your most recent comment sounds like there's something about her tone that particularly activates you. It's likely that some part of her reminds you of your shadow -- an aspect of yourself that you're denying, or that you dislike.
My radical suggestion is to try to spend sometime in meditation, or sitting quietly, and trying to 'love' this person. This is called lovingkindness meditation. The idea is to love the part of yourself that you're reminded of when you see her. The more you can allow yourself that love, the less you can work with compassion for yourself and her.
To be clear, I am NOT saying "her actions are okay", or that "you're the problem". I am saying that a positive way to frame this is that you, yourself, is the person you can love and care about, and that this person represents a part of yourself that might need some love.
You don't have to spend more time with her, or to tolerate her; perhaps keeping your distance while doing this practice might be better.
For more info - see Radical Acceptance by Tara Brach, The Untethered Soul by Michael Singer, etc. Good luck! Happy to talk more about this.
posted by many more sunsets at 10:43 AM on February 14 [10 favorites]
Please advise. Is this irrational on my part? Am I going crazy? This is the sort of thing I don't want to bring home with me or care about.
You're not crazy - but I have some tongue-in-cheek thoughts about whether she might be.
When I read the first paragraph of this AskMe, I thought it was going to be something different. But you don't have an issue regulating your emotions or reacting appropriately when other people talk to you. This is the only person who's pushing your buttons.
And that means that you are not the one with the problem. She is the one with the problem. She is a bully, and she has decided to make you her target.
And - I totally get that you want to explain yourself to her and understand her and maybe talk her out of it and get her to like you. That's what I was advised to do to my own bullies when I was a kid. But it never worked - because who cares why she's doing this to you. All that matters is that you are giving yourself up as a target for this person, and your trying to Understand Why She Does This is just opening yourself up to her more and making yourself a bigger target.
Your emotions are fine, she's just really good at finding a way to poke you. That's all that's happening. I would instead focus on how to make yourself a harder target - whether that's by not telling her any personal info, ignoring anything she says unless it's VERY specifically work-related, or by going to HR if you have to.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:47 AM on February 14 [29 favorites]
You're not crazy - but I have some tongue-in-cheek thoughts about whether she might be.
When I read the first paragraph of this AskMe, I thought it was going to be something different. But you don't have an issue regulating your emotions or reacting appropriately when other people talk to you. This is the only person who's pushing your buttons.
And that means that you are not the one with the problem. She is the one with the problem. She is a bully, and she has decided to make you her target.
And - I totally get that you want to explain yourself to her and understand her and maybe talk her out of it and get her to like you. That's what I was advised to do to my own bullies when I was a kid. But it never worked - because who cares why she's doing this to you. All that matters is that you are giving yourself up as a target for this person, and your trying to Understand Why She Does This is just opening yourself up to her more and making yourself a bigger target.
Your emotions are fine, she's just really good at finding a way to poke you. That's all that's happening. I would instead focus on how to make yourself a harder target - whether that's by not telling her any personal info, ignoring anything she says unless it's VERY specifically work-related, or by going to HR if you have to.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:47 AM on February 14 [29 favorites]
One more thing:
I have found that thinking does not usually help.
Almost all of the literature and discussion seems to agree.
What helps are practices.
So here are a few, very specific practices that work for me:
- Going for a calm walk outside -- in nature, ideally in sunlight
- Meditating (especially first thing in the morning)
- Yoga / stretching / movement
- Sleeping well, without using the phone within an hour of sleep
- Not watching algorithmic feed-based media as much as possible
When I first started doing some of this work, I would see lists like the above and think it was deeply boring, or think of it as a chore: "yeah yeah, I get it, sure". I would brush them off because I was seeking some kind of answer, some kind of deeper understanding. Maybe like you, I have also been very cerebral and logical, , so I was seeking some kind of clear 'solution'.
But the thing is that -- these practices work. They really do. They work over time, little by little. They are not 'answers' but 'practices', methods, the way that breathing air is a literal lifelong practice, not a singular answer. This isn't something I came up with myself, either; this is what almost all of the scientific, spiritual, religious, psychological literature and research and experiences seems to agree about. It's just that: If you don't do them, you enter a state where you don't want to do them, and that's a feedback loop that's difficult to exit through 'thinking'.
Anyhow. TLDR: go for a walk ! Much love to you.
posted by many more sunsets at 11:00 AM on February 14 [12 favorites]
I have found that thinking does not usually help.
Almost all of the literature and discussion seems to agree.
What helps are practices.
So here are a few, very specific practices that work for me:
- Going for a calm walk outside -- in nature, ideally in sunlight
- Meditating (especially first thing in the morning)
- Yoga / stretching / movement
- Sleeping well, without using the phone within an hour of sleep
- Not watching algorithmic feed-based media as much as possible
When I first started doing some of this work, I would see lists like the above and think it was deeply boring, or think of it as a chore: "yeah yeah, I get it, sure". I would brush them off because I was seeking some kind of answer, some kind of deeper understanding. Maybe like you, I have also been very cerebral and logical, , so I was seeking some kind of clear 'solution'.
But the thing is that -- these practices work. They really do. They work over time, little by little. They are not 'answers' but 'practices', methods, the way that breathing air is a literal lifelong practice, not a singular answer. This isn't something I came up with myself, either; this is what almost all of the scientific, spiritual, religious, psychological literature and research and experiences seems to agree about. It's just that: If you don't do them, you enter a state where you don't want to do them, and that's a feedback loop that's difficult to exit through 'thinking'.
Anyhow. TLDR: go for a walk ! Much love to you.
posted by many more sunsets at 11:00 AM on February 14 [12 favorites]
Anyone would be bothered by this stuff in a situation where they can't escape. Your coworker is bullying you, albeit in a petty way - she's the one who's messed up, not you. Asking someone if they have considered Ozempic is pretty obviously rude! The rest of it just seems like she's picking away at you. She may not be totally conscious of what she's doing and it may not be on purpose to hurt you (or it may!) but it's bad, ugly behavior.
It can be really difficult to feel like you're perceiving things correctly among adults at work, because who expects petty sixth-grade torments from another adult when we're all being paid to be there?
I really don't think that this is about you being too sensitive or needing therapy to adjust your attitude. Therapy might help you to strategize about how to respond in a way that makes you feel strong, or it might address why you are vulnerable to this particular mean person, but it wouldn't be something like "I have a personality disorder, how can I treat it".
I think the advice to stop interacting with her so much is good. If there's one thing here where you could stand to change your behavior, it's to stop revealing this kind of stuff at work - childhood trauma, deeply held personal opinions, weight stuff, those are all great things not to talk about at work. If you need to say something about your childhood, your emotions, your children, etc and you don't have a Shiny Happy Normal response, lie. Your job does not have the right to your interiority and you have the right to protect it.
My experience is that even in a job where people are terrific, sharing a lot of really intense personal stuff can change the relationship in a way that isn't good because work relationships need to have some distance to them. Just like you have to be cautious about doing business with family members, you have to be cautious about doing feelings with business connections.
Sometimes people feel so attached to being truthful and open that they leave themselves open to bullying. There are people in the world who, consciously or unconsciously, are drawn to vulnerable and open people precisely in order to target them.
posted by Frowner at 11:01 AM on February 14 [10 favorites]
It can be really difficult to feel like you're perceiving things correctly among adults at work, because who expects petty sixth-grade torments from another adult when we're all being paid to be there?
I really don't think that this is about you being too sensitive or needing therapy to adjust your attitude. Therapy might help you to strategize about how to respond in a way that makes you feel strong, or it might address why you are vulnerable to this particular mean person, but it wouldn't be something like "I have a personality disorder, how can I treat it".
I think the advice to stop interacting with her so much is good. If there's one thing here where you could stand to change your behavior, it's to stop revealing this kind of stuff at work - childhood trauma, deeply held personal opinions, weight stuff, those are all great things not to talk about at work. If you need to say something about your childhood, your emotions, your children, etc and you don't have a Shiny Happy Normal response, lie. Your job does not have the right to your interiority and you have the right to protect it.
My experience is that even in a job where people are terrific, sharing a lot of really intense personal stuff can change the relationship in a way that isn't good because work relationships need to have some distance to them. Just like you have to be cautious about doing business with family members, you have to be cautious about doing feelings with business connections.
Sometimes people feel so attached to being truthful and open that they leave themselves open to bullying. There are people in the world who, consciously or unconsciously, are drawn to vulnerable and open people precisely in order to target them.
posted by Frowner at 11:01 AM on February 14 [10 favorites]
Response by poster: I will chime in one more time to say that I have grey-rocked her, and that's why she said I have emotional problems. Because I don't share and I don't talk a lot. I stopped sharing over a year ago, maybe two, and when I started, she commented out loud in a sarcastic way that I was "keeping things tight to the chest."
When all this happened, she's said out loud, but not directly to me, that it "breaks her heart" that I don't talk to her anymore. I want to be everyone's friend. I want to get along with everyone and be kind, but I can't with this person, and I struggle constantly if I'm wrong or irrational.
Many more sunsets, thank you. I have tried this as well -- to love, to understand. I want to be this person. I am this person, I think most of the time, and this is why I occasionally slip and let stuff out like the dessert thing. I work with other people, and I can't be an automaton. I want to radically accept, and I want to be free. I have practiced yoga for years, off and on. I haven't practiced in a while. It's something I want to return to. I appreciate your advice.
EmpressCallipygos, this is what my sister says -- that she wants to poke me or knows how to poke me -- and all I want to do is ask why (and get triggered and distressed) instead of just accepting it and ignoring her. Thank you.
posted by loveandhappiness at 11:03 AM on February 14 [1 favorite]
When all this happened, she's said out loud, but not directly to me, that it "breaks her heart" that I don't talk to her anymore. I want to be everyone's friend. I want to get along with everyone and be kind, but I can't with this person, and I struggle constantly if I'm wrong or irrational.
Many more sunsets, thank you. I have tried this as well -- to love, to understand. I want to be this person. I am this person, I think most of the time, and this is why I occasionally slip and let stuff out like the dessert thing. I work with other people, and I can't be an automaton. I want to radically accept, and I want to be free. I have practiced yoga for years, off and on. I haven't practiced in a while. It's something I want to return to. I appreciate your advice.
EmpressCallipygos, this is what my sister says -- that she wants to poke me or knows how to poke me -- and all I want to do is ask why (and get triggered and distressed) instead of just accepting it and ignoring her. Thank you.
posted by loveandhappiness at 11:03 AM on February 14 [1 favorite]
Holy cats. You put her on an information diet 1-2 years ago and she is still passive aggressive at you?? I agree with someone upthread, the way you framed this in the OP made me think this was going to be about taking work related critiques with equanimity or something, but this is truly just bad behavior on the part of your colleague. I think it is OK to dislike this person. That’s your self protective instinct talking. You owe her civil interactions over work related things, and that’s all.
posted by eirias at 11:12 AM on February 14 [18 favorites]
posted by eirias at 11:12 AM on February 14 [18 favorites]
Response by poster: Thank you for all of the answer and comments and suggestions. I appreciate them greatly and will work to keep things to myself, keep it professional, practice ignoring, and employ other self-care practices to better cope.
posted by loveandhappiness at 11:12 AM on February 14 [1 favorite]
posted by loveandhappiness at 11:12 AM on February 14 [1 favorite]
it "breaks her heart" that I don't talk to her anymore.
Translation: she was having fun bullying you, and now that you're harder to bully, she's not having as much fun.
I'm afraid you have to take this as a win. Mission accomplished, good work, keep it up. It would be nice if you could have a friendly relationship with her (not necessarily a friends relationship, but a friendly relationship), but it is entirely her fault that it's no longer possible.
posted by Jeanne at 11:13 AM on February 14 [45 favorites]
Translation: she was having fun bullying you, and now that you're harder to bully, she's not having as much fun.
I'm afraid you have to take this as a win. Mission accomplished, good work, keep it up. It would be nice if you could have a friendly relationship with her (not necessarily a friends relationship, but a friendly relationship), but it is entirely her fault that it's no longer possible.
posted by Jeanne at 11:13 AM on February 14 [45 favorites]
Your coworker is a toxic asshole. In addition to grey rocking, consider saying “what a strange thing to say” out loud to her when she says asshole shit. Then just let her stew. Go silent, look at her until she gets uncomfortable. She knows she’s doing the wrong thing. Make it obvious you know too. Consider it an experiment. She’ll try to laugh it off or else run away with her tail between her legs.
Everyone else at your work knows she’s the problem. They’re just scared or part of it.
On the therapy side, your reactions are normal!! It’s normal to be hurt when someone is hurtful. Especially when they’re doing it on purpose. I know this kind of weasel. Don’t let her win. Also, you don’t have to be friends with everyone. You wouldn’t WANT a person like this for a friend. And we don’t have to be friends with people at work. We can be kind or nice or polite, but cold politeness is the least this person deserves.
posted by purple_bird at 11:15 AM on February 14 [20 favorites]
Everyone else at your work knows she’s the problem. They’re just scared or part of it.
On the therapy side, your reactions are normal!! It’s normal to be hurt when someone is hurtful. Especially when they’re doing it on purpose. I know this kind of weasel. Don’t let her win. Also, you don’t have to be friends with everyone. You wouldn’t WANT a person like this for a friend. And we don’t have to be friends with people at work. We can be kind or nice or polite, but cold politeness is the least this person deserves.
posted by purple_bird at 11:15 AM on February 14 [20 favorites]
Also, when you do go to management/HR, I'd focus on the stuff she's said that has nothing to do with work. Like, asking you unprompted if you want to go on Ozempic violates a basic workplace 101 rule, which is you don't comment on co-workers bodies, especially not in judgmental ways! Gossiping with other co-workers about your "emotional problems" is also what I'd highlight to management - that's creating a toxic work environment, not only for you but potentially other coworkers who struggle with mental health, or who are just bothered by hearing the gossip - all things management should want to squash.
posted by coffeecat at 11:16 AM on February 14 [7 favorites]
posted by coffeecat at 11:16 AM on February 14 [7 favorites]
One thing I can suggest: quit trying to get everyone to like you, and especially people you don't like. And maybe trying sharing a bit less about personal stuff at work. I know this is hard. We spend a lot of time with our coworkers, and we develop bonds with them. Sometimes it can be better to cultivate a tiny bit of distance from our coworkers and let our guard down less often.
I am not saying you've done anything wrong! But getting out of the habit of sharing some personal details removes some of the avenues for this stuff to hear so much.
And yes, your coworker sounds awful. Usually other folks start to see their true colors eventually. Hang in there.
posted by bluedaisy at 11:30 AM on February 14 [7 favorites]
I am not saying you've done anything wrong! But getting out of the habit of sharing some personal details removes some of the avenues for this stuff to hear so much.
And yes, your coworker sounds awful. Usually other folks start to see their true colors eventually. Hang in there.
posted by bluedaisy at 11:30 AM on February 14 [7 favorites]
Your coworker is a toxic asshole. In addition to grey rocking, consider saying “what a strange thing to say”
Yes, Good god, your coworker is certifiable and you are blaming yourself.
I don't know what I can offer beyond what's been said (noise cancelling headphones are a dream come true though) but I just want to make sure you are 100% clear that the behavior your coworker is exhibiting is completely batshit, and your coworker sucks HARD and I think maybe you have kind of gotten into an emotional sensitivity spiral that is hard to get past, but the more you can see and believe on a core level that that person is monstrous the lighter I think you will feel.
It isn't you. You might be a generally sensitive overthinking type (lots of us are!) and that combined with the weirdly intimate bullying behaviors is very, very hard to take. If your therapist isn't helping *substantially* with this very specific thing start looking for another therapist and/or confide in a friend so you can get more reassurance that it's not you. It's her.
Just reading this is traumatic. You deserve some kind of treat. Get yourself a nice, self-soothing whatever to remind yourself to be kind to yourself.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 11:36 AM on February 14 [5 favorites]
Yes, Good god, your coworker is certifiable and you are blaming yourself.
I don't know what I can offer beyond what's been said (noise cancelling headphones are a dream come true though) but I just want to make sure you are 100% clear that the behavior your coworker is exhibiting is completely batshit, and your coworker sucks HARD and I think maybe you have kind of gotten into an emotional sensitivity spiral that is hard to get past, but the more you can see and believe on a core level that that person is monstrous the lighter I think you will feel.
It isn't you. You might be a generally sensitive overthinking type (lots of us are!) and that combined with the weirdly intimate bullying behaviors is very, very hard to take. If your therapist isn't helping *substantially* with this very specific thing start looking for another therapist and/or confide in a friend so you can get more reassurance that it's not you. It's her.
Just reading this is traumatic. You deserve some kind of treat. Get yourself a nice, self-soothing whatever to remind yourself to be kind to yourself.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 11:36 AM on February 14 [5 favorites]
Would it be helpful to think of this coworker as exceptionally skilled at making people feel prolonged periods of stress? You feel this way because she is GOOD at making people feel this way.
When she speaks in this way, she's not talking about facts, she's twisting everything she knows about you into very effective weapons. She's taking "ingredients" she's weaseled out of you and mixing them into poison that she feeds to you. The content isn't important (or true) to her, it's how it hurts you that's important to her.
When she's pushed your (very normal, human) buttons, maybe think "Oh wow! Look at how good she is at pushing buttons! She doesn't care about truth, just distress."
It will take time to practice this and have it sink it, but I think it could help.
posted by mcduff at 11:38 AM on February 14 [7 favorites]
When she speaks in this way, she's not talking about facts, she's twisting everything she knows about you into very effective weapons. She's taking "ingredients" she's weaseled out of you and mixing them into poison that she feeds to you. The content isn't important (or true) to her, it's how it hurts you that's important to her.
When she's pushed your (very normal, human) buttons, maybe think "Oh wow! Look at how good she is at pushing buttons! She doesn't care about truth, just distress."
It will take time to practice this and have it sink it, but I think it could help.
posted by mcduff at 11:38 AM on February 14 [7 favorites]
Here’s what I do for reframing.
Is this person someone who I would value praise from?
If not, why would I value their criticism?
posted by hilaryjade at 11:47 AM on February 14 [10 favorites]
Is this person someone who I would value praise from?
If not, why would I value their criticism?
posted by hilaryjade at 11:47 AM on February 14 [10 favorites]
this is what my sister says -- that she wants to poke me or knows how to poke me -- and all I want to do is ask why (and get triggered and distressed) instead of just accepting it and ignoring her.
I mean, I feel you. I was you in this regard for a long time. You didn't do anything to her, but she's still like....that. There's gotta be some reason, what the heck is it?
I would also do this kind of ruminating for years, and the only answer that made sense for me was to accept two things:
1. Some people are just shitty, and
2. Some people have just made up their minds that they don't like you, and you won't be able to change that.
I really just worked on reminding myself of those two facts, and that finally satisfied my need to know "why is she treating me like that" because there was the answer right there ("she does that because she's just made up my mind she doesn't like me, and she did that because she is shitty").
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 12:03 PM on February 14 [8 favorites]
I mean, I feel you. I was you in this regard for a long time. You didn't do anything to her, but she's still like....that. There's gotta be some reason, what the heck is it?
I would also do this kind of ruminating for years, and the only answer that made sense for me was to accept two things:
1. Some people are just shitty, and
2. Some people have just made up their minds that they don't like you, and you won't be able to change that.
I really just worked on reminding myself of those two facts, and that finally satisfied my need to know "why is she treating me like that" because there was the answer right there ("she does that because she's just made up my mind she doesn't like me, and she did that because she is shitty").
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 12:03 PM on February 14 [8 favorites]
I sometimes struggle with this kind of thing, too, and one thing that I remind myself of regularly: Every judgment is a confession. When other people judge you, what they're really doing is revealing their own inner turmoil, their own projections, their own fear, shame, or unresolved issues. It's not about you, it's about them. I know it feels like it's about you, but it's really, really not.
posted by biblioPHL at 12:04 PM on February 14 [13 favorites]
posted by biblioPHL at 12:04 PM on February 14 [13 favorites]
When people make me feel bad, I go and talk to people who normally make me feel good. Even if it's just me delivering a deliverable and the other person saying "thanks".
It recalibrates my "this is what conversations are supposed to be like" meter and it gives me a little feelings boost. Then it's easier to get over the slump of this one person disliking me.
posted by Omnomnom at 12:08 PM on February 14 [20 favorites]
It recalibrates my "this is what conversations are supposed to be like" meter and it gives me a little feelings boost. Then it's easier to get over the slump of this one person disliking me.
posted by Omnomnom at 12:08 PM on February 14 [20 favorites]
Along with Omnomnom's suggestion, I have a plaudits file (two, actually; one physical -- for cards and stuff -- and one for email). It's helpful when I'm feeling not quite the thing, interpersonally.
Adding to the chorus: your coworker is trying to rope you back in to being their preferred target for hateful nonsense, and you have done very well so far in warding her off. Keep it up!
posted by humbug at 12:30 PM on February 14 [7 favorites]
Adding to the chorus: your coworker is trying to rope you back in to being their preferred target for hateful nonsense, and you have done very well so far in warding her off. Keep it up!
posted by humbug at 12:30 PM on February 14 [7 favorites]
I want to be everyone's friend. I want to get along with everyone and be kind, but I can't with this person, and I struggle constantly if I'm wrong or irrational.
I don't think it's possible (or desirable) to be everyone's friend! Niceness might be "getting along with everyone", but kindness isn't. Kindness is wanting the best for everyone --- including ourselves.
In this case, it sounds like being kind to yourself means to (kindly) create distance and hold clear boundaries from this person. Metta bhavana (lovingkindness meditation) has been really helpful; I really recommend it.
I want to be this person. I am this person, I think most of the time, and this is why I occasionally slip and let stuff out like the dessert thing. I work with other people, and I can't be an automaton. I want to radically accept, and I want to be free. I have practiced yoga for years, off and on. I haven't practiced in a while. It's something I want to return to. I appreciate your advice.
It's normal to 'slip', it's normal to find ourselves off balance, and to find our way back. The practice isn't about being a perfect person, but continuing the practice of trying again, and again.
What's been especially helpful for me is to remind myself: our task isn't to be a perfect person; our task is to be true to who we are, if that makes sense.
Again - none of this is justification or excuses for someone else's behavior. But I think it's ultimately, ultimately helpful to hold the focus onto the self and to do what's healthy for you. Over time, this reverberates outwardly. Acting punitively or judgmentally towards your coworker might feel stimulating, but I think it creates internal hurt in the long run. They're on their own path; let them learn their own lessons.
A teacher I have would say: remember to let go. Sending love and kindness and compassion; I hope you send that to yourself, as well. Good luck!
posted by many more sunsets at 12:38 PM on February 14 [4 favorites]
I don't think it's possible (or desirable) to be everyone's friend! Niceness might be "getting along with everyone", but kindness isn't. Kindness is wanting the best for everyone --- including ourselves.
In this case, it sounds like being kind to yourself means to (kindly) create distance and hold clear boundaries from this person. Metta bhavana (lovingkindness meditation) has been really helpful; I really recommend it.
I want to be this person. I am this person, I think most of the time, and this is why I occasionally slip and let stuff out like the dessert thing. I work with other people, and I can't be an automaton. I want to radically accept, and I want to be free. I have practiced yoga for years, off and on. I haven't practiced in a while. It's something I want to return to. I appreciate your advice.
It's normal to 'slip', it's normal to find ourselves off balance, and to find our way back. The practice isn't about being a perfect person, but continuing the practice of trying again, and again.
What's been especially helpful for me is to remind myself: our task isn't to be a perfect person; our task is to be true to who we are, if that makes sense.
Again - none of this is justification or excuses for someone else's behavior. But I think it's ultimately, ultimately helpful to hold the focus onto the self and to do what's healthy for you. Over time, this reverberates outwardly. Acting punitively or judgmentally towards your coworker might feel stimulating, but I think it creates internal hurt in the long run. They're on their own path; let them learn their own lessons.
A teacher I have would say: remember to let go. Sending love and kindness and compassion; I hope you send that to yourself, as well. Good luck!
posted by many more sunsets at 12:38 PM on February 14 [4 favorites]
With the disclaimer that I'm not a therapist or any kind of expert here, nothing in your post screams "dysregulated emotions" to me. I think your coworker is mean and gossipy and I think perfectly healthy people feel terrible when someone is mean to them, including feeling terrible all day and feeling on edge at work, because anyone would feel on edge if they had a mean coworker who would latch onto even the tiniest comment as an excuse to gossip about them.
loveandhappiness: I think she's trying to rattle me because she's miserable, and she knows I can become rattled.
Honestly this is a great insight and it took me decades of reflection to realize this was what was going on with my childhood bullies. She's being mean because she is miserable. I think the best you can do is repeat that to yourself. She is having a worse day than I am. I don't mean you should empathize with her or pity her - nah, she's being a jerk, no pity for that. I mean remember that you are already winning because you're not so miserable that your misery leaks out all over other people all day.
Personally I do think it's 100% ok to leave your job over this. I don't think that's "letting her win", I think that's "letting workplaces that have cultures too healthy for this bullshit win".
posted by capricorn at 12:38 PM on February 14 [4 favorites]
loveandhappiness: I think she's trying to rattle me because she's miserable, and she knows I can become rattled.
Honestly this is a great insight and it took me decades of reflection to realize this was what was going on with my childhood bullies. She's being mean because she is miserable. I think the best you can do is repeat that to yourself. She is having a worse day than I am. I don't mean you should empathize with her or pity her - nah, she's being a jerk, no pity for that. I mean remember that you are already winning because you're not so miserable that your misery leaks out all over other people all day.
Personally I do think it's 100% ok to leave your job over this. I don't think that's "letting her win", I think that's "letting workplaces that have cultures too healthy for this bullshit win".
posted by capricorn at 12:38 PM on February 14 [4 favorites]
noise cancelling headphones are a dream come true
Yes to this! Or if you can't get away with noise canceling headphones I can attest that this over one earpiece helped me care far less if my coworker was being an asshole when I worked at an in-person job because I was too busy being absorbed in a fascinating audiobook or listening to my favorite music to care. Distraction does wonders for me in this type of situation.
I'm not saying that you shouldn't bring this up with your manager or HR or that you shouldn't look for a different job just in case you find something you might like better (both of these things helped me immensely too).
posted by Eyelash at 12:48 PM on February 14 [1 favorite]
Yes to this! Or if you can't get away with noise canceling headphones I can attest that this over one earpiece helped me care far less if my coworker was being an asshole when I worked at an in-person job because I was too busy being absorbed in a fascinating audiobook or listening to my favorite music to care. Distraction does wonders for me in this type of situation.
I'm not saying that you shouldn't bring this up with your manager or HR or that you shouldn't look for a different job just in case you find something you might like better (both of these things helped me immensely too).
posted by Eyelash at 12:48 PM on February 14 [1 favorite]
In the interactions you describe, you were not doing full grey-rock.
When the bully said "what about (older son's name)?" about the dessert, a grey-rock reply would be "Dunno." or silently shrugging. Grey-rock means using monosyllables or wordless vague gestures. Think how a sullen teenager might act. Your reply doesn't have to make sense. The key is to shut down the conversation.
When she asked questions about your nonfiction book, a grey-rock reply would be "Who knows", a shrug, pretending you got distracted by something in the distance, or being silent for 10 seconds and then saying "What'd you say?"
If she follows up with "You don't know if your son wanted the dessert?" or "How can you not know if your book has XYZ?", you can still do the exact same type of response again (shrug, 1000-yard stare, "dunno"). This can be repeated indefinitely.
It's also helpful to inject long pauses before your response. This makes bullying less fun for the bully. Hold a cup of water or coffee in your hand. If she asks you an invasive question (such as the ozempic question) or nitpicks an error, take a slow sip for 5 seconds, smack your lips, wipe your mouth, gulp. Then shrug and say, "Dunno." or "Thanks". For her next question, start over again with a super-slow sip of water. The delay also buys you time to calm down and choose your response.
I think the interactions are still bothering you because you're only doing 50% grey-rock. You need to go full grey-rock on this bully!
posted by vienna at 12:53 PM on February 14 [12 favorites]
When the bully said "what about (older son's name)?" about the dessert, a grey-rock reply would be "Dunno." or silently shrugging. Grey-rock means using monosyllables or wordless vague gestures. Think how a sullen teenager might act. Your reply doesn't have to make sense. The key is to shut down the conversation.
When she asked questions about your nonfiction book, a grey-rock reply would be "Who knows", a shrug, pretending you got distracted by something in the distance, or being silent for 10 seconds and then saying "What'd you say?"
If she follows up with "You don't know if your son wanted the dessert?" or "How can you not know if your book has XYZ?", you can still do the exact same type of response again (shrug, 1000-yard stare, "dunno"). This can be repeated indefinitely.
It's also helpful to inject long pauses before your response. This makes bullying less fun for the bully. Hold a cup of water or coffee in your hand. If she asks you an invasive question (such as the ozempic question) or nitpicks an error, take a slow sip for 5 seconds, smack your lips, wipe your mouth, gulp. Then shrug and say, "Dunno." or "Thanks". For her next question, start over again with a super-slow sip of water. The delay also buys you time to calm down and choose your response.
I think the interactions are still bothering you because you're only doing 50% grey-rock. You need to go full grey-rock on this bully!
posted by vienna at 12:53 PM on February 14 [12 favorites]
I will be vague with my work environment challenges since I am fully retired but you never know about on-line comments.
Let's just say that there was one particular team member who was very dismissive of my opinions, and (I believe) tended to see things as "zero sum" (any respect or knowledge I enjoyed in the team must be that much less available to him). One particular time he became angry and "got in my face" (he is much larger than I am) over a particular approach. I was obviously put off but dropped back to "I thought this was how we as a team decided to go forward with this, I hear that you believe it may become a stumbling block to making a delivery date, but you must understand I am not a manager, why are you upset by me mentioning the concern?"
Two things that helped me minimize my concern for his differing opinions was: #1 - he had very poor bathroom habits (even guys notice this kind of thing), #2 - he never had any problem coming to me for advice or help with portions of the system which were a bit tricky. And one thing that made me give him credit as a useful team member was that he had great rapport with our clients.
I hope this might (?) be of some help to you. But on preview I see that "grey rock" might have been a great skill for me to have dealing with this guy.
posted by forthright at 1:15 PM on February 14 [1 favorite]
Let's just say that there was one particular team member who was very dismissive of my opinions, and (I believe) tended to see things as "zero sum" (any respect or knowledge I enjoyed in the team must be that much less available to him). One particular time he became angry and "got in my face" (he is much larger than I am) over a particular approach. I was obviously put off but dropped back to "I thought this was how we as a team decided to go forward with this, I hear that you believe it may become a stumbling block to making a delivery date, but you must understand I am not a manager, why are you upset by me mentioning the concern?"
Two things that helped me minimize my concern for his differing opinions was: #1 - he had very poor bathroom habits (even guys notice this kind of thing), #2 - he never had any problem coming to me for advice or help with portions of the system which were a bit tricky. And one thing that made me give him credit as a useful team member was that he had great rapport with our clients.
I hope this might (?) be of some help to you. But on preview I see that "grey rock" might have been a great skill for me to have dealing with this guy.
posted by forthright at 1:15 PM on February 14 [1 favorite]
> I work with other people, and I can't be an automaton. I want to radically accept, and I want to be free.
1. Why would you characterize grey rocking this lady as being an automaton? Literally the opposite is true. You are not an impersonal friendly neighborhood robot who must be lovely and cheerful and warm with everyone you talk to, as if you're a humanoid form of Alexa or Siri. Rather, you are a human being who has the capacity and wisdom to calibrate your interactions with people based on your past experiences with them. In this instance, with this person, you choose to grey rock them, precisely because you are a human being with a desire to avoid further emotional harm. Only an automaton would be personable towards everyone indiscriminately.
2. Why would you characterize radical acceptance as being nice to this woman? Literally the opposite is true. Radical acceptance means you clearly see the truth - that this woman hates your guts - and then you fully accept that truth without being in denial about it, and without trying to change it. Which means you can neither act as if she's your friend, nor can you try to change her, by cajoling her or by launching a charm offensive at her or whatever, in hope that she starts treating you better. Instead you need to radically accept that this woman hates your guts, and behave accordingly towards her (i.e. grey rock).
Two comments above this one, vienna is SPOT ON when they say:
> In the interactions you describe, you were not doing full grey-rock. ... I think the interactions are still bothering you because you're only doing 50% grey-rock. You need to go full grey-rock on this bully!
Letting go of your need to be liked by this co-worker is the only way to be free.
posted by MiraK at 1:24 PM on February 14 [14 favorites]
1. Why would you characterize grey rocking this lady as being an automaton? Literally the opposite is true. You are not an impersonal friendly neighborhood robot who must be lovely and cheerful and warm with everyone you talk to, as if you're a humanoid form of Alexa or Siri. Rather, you are a human being who has the capacity and wisdom to calibrate your interactions with people based on your past experiences with them. In this instance, with this person, you choose to grey rock them, precisely because you are a human being with a desire to avoid further emotional harm. Only an automaton would be personable towards everyone indiscriminately.
2. Why would you characterize radical acceptance as being nice to this woman? Literally the opposite is true. Radical acceptance means you clearly see the truth - that this woman hates your guts - and then you fully accept that truth without being in denial about it, and without trying to change it. Which means you can neither act as if she's your friend, nor can you try to change her, by cajoling her or by launching a charm offensive at her or whatever, in hope that she starts treating you better. Instead you need to radically accept that this woman hates your guts, and behave accordingly towards her (i.e. grey rock).
Two comments above this one, vienna is SPOT ON when they say:
> In the interactions you describe, you were not doing full grey-rock. ... I think the interactions are still bothering you because you're only doing 50% grey-rock. You need to go full grey-rock on this bully!
Letting go of your need to be liked by this co-worker is the only way to be free.
posted by MiraK at 1:24 PM on February 14 [14 favorites]
This coworker has decided she hates your guts and literally you can do nothing right. You exist and that means she hates you. No matter what you do, you are wrong for existing. Been there, lived this. You're doing the right thing on grey rocking, but clearly she's still at it.
Honestly, either you quit or you see about pursuing her for bullying you at work. I have no idea how your management would be if you did that, if they'd do anything or not or what, but it's something you might want to investigate before you quit. There's also https://workplacebullying.org/ if you want to check that out.
posted by jenfullmoon at 1:50 PM on February 14 [7 favorites]
Honestly, either you quit or you see about pursuing her for bullying you at work. I have no idea how your management would be if you did that, if they'd do anything or not or what, but it's something you might want to investigate before you quit. There's also https://workplacebullying.org/ if you want to check that out.
posted by jenfullmoon at 1:50 PM on February 14 [7 favorites]
Coworker is a bully asshole etc. I don’t know what her actual problem is, but check out Dr Ramani on YouTube. She mostly talks about narcissists and dealing with them. Again no idea if the coworker here is in fact one of those — regardless, arming yourself with tools to deal with people who get nasty is what it’s about, Dr Ramani’s videos won’t steer you wrong that way. Search for videos related to work/coworkers.
I suggest this because I’ve never been able to let a bully not piss me off in a distracting way. I could say a bunch of stuff about framing her as a certain kind of person — seeing through her without letting her get to you — but that’s way easier said than done in the moment.
Nasty people exist in every workplace, they play games, sometimes they can even edge you out of your job. It’s hard to know how to deal with them. Try the videos anyway.
posted by cotton dress sock at 1:59 PM on February 14 [2 favorites]
I suggest this because I’ve never been able to let a bully not piss me off in a distracting way. I could say a bunch of stuff about framing her as a certain kind of person — seeing through her without letting her get to you — but that’s way easier said than done in the moment.
Nasty people exist in every workplace, they play games, sometimes they can even edge you out of your job. It’s hard to know how to deal with them. Try the videos anyway.
posted by cotton dress sock at 1:59 PM on February 14 [2 favorites]
I found that whew at exacerbated feelings of vulnerability for me, when being bullied - which is what this is - was a feeling of powerlessness. There didn’t seem to be any reaction I could have that would improve the situation, except ‘don’t care’, and that’s not really under our control.
When I realized that it was socially acceptable to say, in a conversational tone, ‘that’s a rude thing to say,’ to someone who has just said something rude, it instantly made me more resilient in this type of interaction. It’s wonderful because what is she going to do? Argue that she wasn’t rude? Maybe she does. Just say ‘ok’ with a little smile to let her and anyone else know that she’s not rolling you. Or, guaranteed to enrage, ‘I’m sorry you feel that way,’.
posted by bq at 2:48 PM on February 14 [4 favorites]
When I realized that it was socially acceptable to say, in a conversational tone, ‘that’s a rude thing to say,’ to someone who has just said something rude, it instantly made me more resilient in this type of interaction. It’s wonderful because what is she going to do? Argue that she wasn’t rude? Maybe she does. Just say ‘ok’ with a little smile to let her and anyone else know that she’s not rolling you. Or, guaranteed to enrage, ‘I’m sorry you feel that way,’.
posted by bq at 2:48 PM on February 14 [4 favorites]
It might help to practice some stock phrases that you can deliver in a neutral or even cheerful way: “What an unusual thing to say” or “That’s a little inappropriate for work” or “I don’t understand what you mean.” The specific words will need to be tailored to what feels comfortable to you, but the idea is to just have them handy to dispense whenever you feel yourself getting activated. These statements don’t have to communicate anything specific to her, per se, only give you a script so you can be (and appear) less rattled because she can’t back you into a fraught conversational minefield.
Another way to be less rattled in the moment is to cultivate a state of mind in which you internalize that not only is she petty and wrong but, what’s more, she is completely beneath your notice and concern. And playacting this state of mind is a great way to help yourself get there for real. Practice a slightly skeptical/disbelieving expression in the mirror, and use it when she pulls her bullshit. Practice saying “Huh” while doing a slow head nod. The goal is to cultivate an internal state of mind in which you can even, if you wish, find her amusing, in the way that the Dowager Countess of Grantham might find a striving new dinner guest amusing—that is, that everything she is doing is inappropriate and offensive to you, but she is also of so little consequence that you may drolly witness her without any danger to your digestion.
(On preview, I think what I am suggesting is a lot like bq’s method but with the addition of a bit of internal dramatic acting to help distract my emotional instincts, hah.)
posted by CtrlAltDelete at 3:09 PM on February 14 [6 favorites]
Another way to be less rattled in the moment is to cultivate a state of mind in which you internalize that not only is she petty and wrong but, what’s more, she is completely beneath your notice and concern. And playacting this state of mind is a great way to help yourself get there for real. Practice a slightly skeptical/disbelieving expression in the mirror, and use it when she pulls her bullshit. Practice saying “Huh” while doing a slow head nod. The goal is to cultivate an internal state of mind in which you can even, if you wish, find her amusing, in the way that the Dowager Countess of Grantham might find a striving new dinner guest amusing—that is, that everything she is doing is inappropriate and offensive to you, but she is also of so little consequence that you may drolly witness her without any danger to your digestion.
(On preview, I think what I am suggesting is a lot like bq’s method but with the addition of a bit of internal dramatic acting to help distract my emotional instincts, hah.)
posted by CtrlAltDelete at 3:09 PM on February 14 [6 favorites]
She is a terrible human who is bullying you. The Ozempic + dessert comments are absolutely bullying. You have a problem because she is a bully and honestly I might even consider going to someone if she doesn’t stop. This is beyond inappropriate. You shouldn’t have to explain why you have leftovers and why you didn’t give them to your kids instead. What the holy fuck.
posted by corb at 4:07 PM on February 14 [1 favorite]
posted by corb at 4:07 PM on February 14 [1 favorite]
Breaking away from the question of how to handle the specific situation with your coworker.... you wrote:
I'm currently undergoing therapy, although after five sessions, I sometimes feel disillusioned and hopeless about overcoming this tendency to be rattled by others.
I think you're looking for a sort of solidity, a fundamental belief in your own worth that would let you say "Yeah, okay, whatever" to people who want to denigrate you.
That's a lot more than five sessions of therapy. In fact, while it doesn't have to be in therapy it is something that takes many months or even years to learn. It's a slow process with lots of setbacks, but I can tell you for certain that it is possible to get from where you are to a point where people like your coworker are annoying and sad rather than rattling.
Without knowing you I can't say what path you might want to take, but as you are already seeing a therapist I'd encourage you to ask them about the long term and what you can do not in a few weeks but in a few years to develop a more solid sense of self.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 4:23 PM on February 14 [5 favorites]
I'm currently undergoing therapy, although after five sessions, I sometimes feel disillusioned and hopeless about overcoming this tendency to be rattled by others.
I think you're looking for a sort of solidity, a fundamental belief in your own worth that would let you say "Yeah, okay, whatever" to people who want to denigrate you.
That's a lot more than five sessions of therapy. In fact, while it doesn't have to be in therapy it is something that takes many months or even years to learn. It's a slow process with lots of setbacks, but I can tell you for certain that it is possible to get from where you are to a point where people like your coworker are annoying and sad rather than rattling.
Without knowing you I can't say what path you might want to take, but as you are already seeing a therapist I'd encourage you to ask them about the long term and what you can do not in a few weeks but in a few years to develop a more solid sense of self.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 4:23 PM on February 14 [5 favorites]
(1) this is a her problem
(2) she is a soap opera character, omg. She is walking up to a random coworker and telling them they should be on medication for how awful their body is, and accusing them of emotional issues for not being friendlier with her. Wtf. She is laughably out of line.
(3) I am picturing one version of you that is astounded at this person, just cocking your head to the side like a crow and marveling (inside your head) that this person somehow lived to adulthood without ever realizing most people will understand you are insulting them when you call them fat.
(4) but that is not how you feel at all! So I gotta ask: Who is she reminding you of that is making this feel heavier than Some Strange Rude Coworker?
posted by Lady Li at 4:52 PM on February 14 [3 favorites]
(2) she is a soap opera character, omg. She is walking up to a random coworker and telling them they should be on medication for how awful their body is, and accusing them of emotional issues for not being friendlier with her. Wtf. She is laughably out of line.
(3) I am picturing one version of you that is astounded at this person, just cocking your head to the side like a crow and marveling (inside your head) that this person somehow lived to adulthood without ever realizing most people will understand you are insulting them when you call them fat.
(4) but that is not how you feel at all! So I gotta ask: Who is she reminding you of that is making this feel heavier than Some Strange Rude Coworker?
posted by Lady Li at 4:52 PM on February 14 [3 favorites]
Yeah, I would try to channel your feelings of shame back in the appropriate direction. You are being shamed. You don't have to take that on as reality or buy into it in any way.
Shame is partly anger at oneself. One way to short-circuit the shame response is to figure out a more appropriate target for that anger. Redirect!
I'm personally unable to act all cool and unbothered when someone says something rude like what your co-worker said. Here are my stock responses in response:
Excuse me?
What did you just say?
Then I generally just walk away. I feel nothing but contempt for bullies. But you could add one of the other responses suggested above, like ‘that’s a rude thing to say,’ as suggested by bq.
Let them feel judged! Don't let bullies get away with it - give it right back to them, right in their face. Maybe practice in the mirror or with your therapist.
Bullies seek out people who will let them shame-dump (someone who will become the receptacle of their own internal shame). The best way, IMHO, to deal with a bully (among adults and given personal safety is not in danger, obvs) is to reject that attempt to make you take on their feelings. They don't know you, and their opinions matter not a whit.
You've got this. Hang in there.
posted by acridrabbit at 6:51 PM on February 14 [5 favorites]
Shame is partly anger at oneself. One way to short-circuit the shame response is to figure out a more appropriate target for that anger. Redirect!
I'm personally unable to act all cool and unbothered when someone says something rude like what your co-worker said. Here are my stock responses in response:
Excuse me?
What did you just say?
Then I generally just walk away. I feel nothing but contempt for bullies. But you could add one of the other responses suggested above, like ‘that’s a rude thing to say,’ as suggested by bq.
Let them feel judged! Don't let bullies get away with it - give it right back to them, right in their face. Maybe practice in the mirror or with your therapist.
Bullies seek out people who will let them shame-dump (someone who will become the receptacle of their own internal shame). The best way, IMHO, to deal with a bully (among adults and given personal safety is not in danger, obvs) is to reject that attempt to make you take on their feelings. They don't know you, and their opinions matter not a whit.
You've got this. Hang in there.
posted by acridrabbit at 6:51 PM on February 14 [5 favorites]
Everyone has already covered all of my serious suggestions, so here’s a silly one: consider your coworker an Energy Vampire. I have one in my current job, and once I recognized her feeding patterns, she lost all ability to rile me. Instead, it’s a fun game I play in meetings with her: try to spot the feed!
But seriously, once you see through her ridiculousness, she will lose the power to get to you. And even if some attack slips through, and you find yourself worked up over something she poked you with, you will be able to recover much faster. Just think to yourself , “Evie is at it again, she got me this time.”
posted by bluloo at 8:52 PM on February 14 [4 favorites]
But seriously, once you see through her ridiculousness, she will lose the power to get to you. And even if some attack slips through, and you find yourself worked up over something she poked you with, you will be able to recover much faster. Just think to yourself , “Evie is at it again, she got me this time.”
posted by bluloo at 8:52 PM on February 14 [4 favorites]
It is clear from your writing that you are smart, insightful, thoughtful, and empathetic and you're trying to choose the right path. Unfortunately your coworker has chosen otherwise. Your coworker is a terrible person, full stop. She's spending so much time and attention on you because doing so keeps her from having to face the uncomfortable feelings that would come up were she to sit with the reality of who she is and acknowledge what she's afraid of : that she's miserable about herself. She wants to reform you because that's easier than doing the hard work necessary to reform herself. Having any sort of genuine personal connection with her will be a burden at best , a constant drain on your psychic and emotional energy, and a never ending parade of drama llamas. Ruuuuuun, Foooooorrrressst. Life is too short.
The right kind of confrontation could get her to shut up and leave you alone, but the approach would need care and would require having zero fucks to give, though I'm tempted to suggest saying "Instead of focusing on me and what's going on in my life, you can put that energy towards your own. I'm here to do a job, not be your pet project. Your interest in my personal life is
unnecessary and unwelcome." Actually, purple_bird's approach might be easier and more effective. There's always, "I'm sorry if I was unclear, but I wasn't soliciting anybody's advice or opinions."
Oh my good lord, that Ozempic comment. Completely unprofessional and unacceptable. I suggest documenting the hell out of each time she comments on you in any way that isn't directly related to work, so you have a nice body of existing data in the event that HR needs to be brought it. She will not be getting any better towards you of her own accord until and unless she targets another individual in her life to focus her self loathing on.
If you like and trust your therapist, stick with it. There's two sides to this ... there's you terrible coworker, and there's what you're bringing to it from your own experience. If terrible coworker were to disappear tomorrow, you'd be left with the potential problem of another person rattling you in the future. May I suggest: USE HER. USE HER FOR PRACTICE. Use the experience of her bullshit to try new modes of interaction and behavior and learn what approaches can work for you when you run into situations like this in the future. Perhaps the universe put her in your life at this moment so that you would have the opportunity to move past a roadblock and feel the power of agency over it.
posted by jerome powell buys his sweatbands in bulk only at 8:59 PM on February 14 [4 favorites]
The right kind of confrontation could get her to shut up and leave you alone, but the approach would need care and would require having zero fucks to give, though I'm tempted to suggest saying "Instead of focusing on me and what's going on in my life, you can put that energy towards your own. I'm here to do a job, not be your pet project. Your interest in my personal life is
unnecessary and unwelcome." Actually, purple_bird's approach might be easier and more effective. There's always, "I'm sorry if I was unclear, but I wasn't soliciting anybody's advice or opinions."
Oh my good lord, that Ozempic comment. Completely unprofessional and unacceptable. I suggest documenting the hell out of each time she comments on you in any way that isn't directly related to work, so you have a nice body of existing data in the event that HR needs to be brought it. She will not be getting any better towards you of her own accord until and unless she targets another individual in her life to focus her self loathing on.
If you like and trust your therapist, stick with it. There's two sides to this ... there's you terrible coworker, and there's what you're bringing to it from your own experience. If terrible coworker were to disappear tomorrow, you'd be left with the potential problem of another person rattling you in the future. May I suggest: USE HER. USE HER FOR PRACTICE. Use the experience of her bullshit to try new modes of interaction and behavior and learn what approaches can work for you when you run into situations like this in the future. Perhaps the universe put her in your life at this moment so that you would have the opportunity to move past a roadblock and feel the power of agency over it.
posted by jerome powell buys his sweatbands in bulk only at 8:59 PM on February 14 [4 favorites]
I'm a people-pleasing, naturally open kind of person too. And although I agree it is probably best to go "grey rock" with this person, IT FUCKING SUCKS THAT YOU HAVE TO. Like, it's not fun to constantly be policing your own words and personality just to not give an asshole ammo to keep bullying you.
So please please please do not be hard on yourself about "slipping" or take the "your examples aren't grey rocking" responses here too hard - you're not doing anything inherently wrong here, and you sound like an awesome person I'd love to be friends with at work, and I just want to validate that it's unfair that you have to put all this effort into it. Sometimes people in AskMe like to script how they'd respond in a certain situation but we all deep down know that's harder to do in real life. But if you keep practicing hopefully it will get easier and easier and the room she takes up in your head will get smaller and smaller. Perhaps as you work with your therapist on this, you will be able to do some roleplay - it feels cheesy as hell but it can work to start training yourself for how to respond.
I also want to acknowledge that it's hard, especially in group settings where there are also people you want to be friendly with; how does one engage in a jovial group conversation in the office break room but switch back and forth to Grey Rock with this one person? Do you have to leave every conversation she's in, to the detriment of your relationships with other coworkers? I think there's a way to thread this needle but it won't be easy. Try putting on a persona of a person who is so self confident this woman is like a tiny fly buzzing around your head that you barely make an effort to swat away, while you're still enjoying everything and everyone else around you, and eventually it may feel more natural. Fake it til you make it! I'm rooting for you.
posted by misskaz at 5:09 AM on February 15 [4 favorites]
So please please please do not be hard on yourself about "slipping" or take the "your examples aren't grey rocking" responses here too hard - you're not doing anything inherently wrong here, and you sound like an awesome person I'd love to be friends with at work, and I just want to validate that it's unfair that you have to put all this effort into it. Sometimes people in AskMe like to script how they'd respond in a certain situation but we all deep down know that's harder to do in real life. But if you keep practicing hopefully it will get easier and easier and the room she takes up in your head will get smaller and smaller. Perhaps as you work with your therapist on this, you will be able to do some roleplay - it feels cheesy as hell but it can work to start training yourself for how to respond.
I also want to acknowledge that it's hard, especially in group settings where there are also people you want to be friendly with; how does one engage in a jovial group conversation in the office break room but switch back and forth to Grey Rock with this one person? Do you have to leave every conversation she's in, to the detriment of your relationships with other coworkers? I think there's a way to thread this needle but it won't be easy. Try putting on a persona of a person who is so self confident this woman is like a tiny fly buzzing around your head that you barely make an effort to swat away, while you're still enjoying everything and everyone else around you, and eventually it may feel more natural. Fake it til you make it! I'm rooting for you.
posted by misskaz at 5:09 AM on February 15 [4 favorites]
Some people have deep problems that you cannot fix by being friends with them. This is a fact that has nothing to do with you. Disengaging is the only way to fix your problem.
posted by waving at 5:32 AM on February 15 [1 favorite]
posted by waving at 5:32 AM on February 15 [1 favorite]
I relate to your question a lot! I let other people’s weird-ass ways of being in the world get to me and it was awful to experience the self-harming thoughts and feelings that would arise from those people’s manners.
One of the ways therapy helped me is to elevate the priority of my Self in these interactions. Instead of judging others as deficient enough in their personal development to snort a simple ‘can you just not?’ or feeling pity, I was absorbed by their judgments. I cowered away, shutting down my natural vivacity and relatively intelligent and responsible ways of being in the world. The truth was the things they were doing or saying felt kind of true, that they had seen inside the real me because my self esteem was very low.
Therapy will take that little kernel of self belief that you show in your question, that tells you that hey, I have a pretty good interpersonal life outside of this shitty individual. The therapy sessions will develop it until you trust yourself, love yourself. [if someone says ‘Ozempic?’ You’ll bat it away like the daft shit it is ‘oh darl, I’m really good with me as I am hey.’]
When your inside work starts to really take - ie your feelings and your space in the world is deserved etc - there will be less of this rattling. Having her approval or support will not be important to you. You’ll put her snide opportunism where it belongs, in pity rather than self-harm. Stick with the therapy.
posted by honey-barbara at 8:31 AM on February 15 [1 favorite]
One of the ways therapy helped me is to elevate the priority of my Self in these interactions. Instead of judging others as deficient enough in their personal development to snort a simple ‘can you just not?’ or feeling pity, I was absorbed by their judgments. I cowered away, shutting down my natural vivacity and relatively intelligent and responsible ways of being in the world. The truth was the things they were doing or saying felt kind of true, that they had seen inside the real me because my self esteem was very low.
Therapy will take that little kernel of self belief that you show in your question, that tells you that hey, I have a pretty good interpersonal life outside of this shitty individual. The therapy sessions will develop it until you trust yourself, love yourself. [if someone says ‘Ozempic?’ You’ll bat it away like the daft shit it is ‘oh darl, I’m really good with me as I am hey.’]
When your inside work starts to really take - ie your feelings and your space in the world is deserved etc - there will be less of this rattling. Having her approval or support will not be important to you. You’ll put her snide opportunism where it belongs, in pity rather than self-harm. Stick with the therapy.
posted by honey-barbara at 8:31 AM on February 15 [1 favorite]
Hey friend, I hope that you are seeing that you asked us, "How do I regulate my emotions?" and people here are chiming in to say, "They truly are an asshole." So the issue here isn't that you are too sensitive, or unable to regulate, or whatever, but that you are dealing with someone who is pretty awful and has found ways to push your buttons and has no reason to change.
That's not to say you can't find ways to better manage your reactions and responses to this person, but the problem here is definitely not you, okay?
posted by bluedaisy at 1:32 PM on February 15 [2 favorites]
That's not to say you can't find ways to better manage your reactions and responses to this person, but the problem here is definitely not you, okay?
posted by bluedaisy at 1:32 PM on February 15 [2 favorites]
WHAT. A. BITCH.
"It breaks her heart"??? Good. Break it. Break it hard. If the person/people she was talking to were buying into this, they're almost as bad as she is, and screw that workplace high school behavior.
I can't speak to how sensitive you are, but this woman is just bat-shit crazy and a bully.
I'm an internet stranger, but please do me favor and make my day. Next time she tries stirring the pot with you, will you think of me, look her straight in the eye, and loudly say to yourself, "BlueHorse thinks you are a BITCH, and she doesn't even know you!" A smirk is then optional.
You got it kiddo. You're OK.
posted by BlueHorse at 4:57 PM on February 15 [3 favorites]
"It breaks her heart"??? Good. Break it. Break it hard. If the person/people she was talking to were buying into this, they're almost as bad as she is, and screw that workplace high school behavior.
I can't speak to how sensitive you are, but this woman is just bat-shit crazy and a bully.
I'm an internet stranger, but please do me favor and make my day. Next time she tries stirring the pot with you, will you think of me, look her straight in the eye, and loudly say to yourself, "BlueHorse thinks you are a BITCH, and she doesn't even know you!" A smirk is then optional.
You got it kiddo. You're OK.
posted by BlueHorse at 4:57 PM on February 15 [3 favorites]
I want to be everyone's friend
There are many, many people who do not deserve to be your friend, and the things she has done make her undeserving. What you can do is be courteous to everyone. In her case, you're being as kind as you can to her in light of this.
posted by soelo at 6:03 PM on February 15 [6 favorites]
There are many, many people who do not deserve to be your friend, and the things she has done make her undeserving. What you can do is be courteous to everyone. In her case, you're being as kind as you can to her in light of this.
posted by soelo at 6:03 PM on February 15 [6 favorites]
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posted by slkinsey at 9:50 AM on February 14 [4 favorites]