Are collars really ok for dogs?
January 11, 2024 4:14 PM Subscribe
I'm not an expert on dog anatomy (or any species, really), but common sense and the general knowledge I do have tells me that the neck is a very sensitive area. I can't imagine that pulling on it is a good idea, but it seems like most dogs wear collars all their lives and don't seem to have horrible neck injuries in their old age. What's going on here, how can this work?
Animals are not people. Anatomy is relevant.
posted by phunniemee at 5:06 PM on January 11 [10 favorites]
posted by phunniemee at 5:06 PM on January 11 [10 favorites]
Lots of owners prefer to use a harness and attach the leash to the harness rather than to the collar. This avoids neck strain and the collar is like a necklace that holds their tags and serves as an emergency grab point but not subject to everyday strain. Downside is that for a dog that pulls, they can pull much harder against a harness so you still need to teach the dog not to pull on the leash.
posted by metahawk at 5:10 PM on January 11 [12 favorites]
posted by metahawk at 5:10 PM on January 11 [12 favorites]
All the dog owners I know only walk their dogs with harnesses where the leash clips on the back or around the front on the chest. Training to not pull is huge and I feel like a very commonly discussed issue, but the harnesses solve this problem pretty well, by and large. Our dog has a collar but walks with a harness, and I usually clip it in the front because having the leash attached to the chest discourages pulling.
posted by caitcadieux at 5:11 PM on January 11 [2 favorites]
posted by caitcadieux at 5:11 PM on January 11 [2 favorites]
Our dog, and most similar hounds, have heads that slip out of collars without much effort, so it’s a harness for her. The collar is for showing off her license, vaccination and dog park tags.
posted by childofTethys at 6:10 PM on January 11 [2 favorites]
posted by childofTethys at 6:10 PM on January 11 [2 favorites]
No idea for the rest of the time, but definitely not for walking.
If they see a squirrel and dash after it and strain at the end of their of their leash (something that may otherwise be completely out of character for them, but this ONE squirrel is special somehow), they can get a collapsed trachea. Not worth the risk.
posted by aniola at 6:42 PM on January 11 [3 favorites]
If they see a squirrel and dash after it and strain at the end of their of their leash (something that may otherwise be completely out of character for them, but this ONE squirrel is special somehow), they can get a collapsed trachea. Not worth the risk.
posted by aniola at 6:42 PM on January 11 [3 favorites]
Yes, harnesses (or in some cases, head harnesses) for walks is what many people do to avoid potential neck strain. Collapsed trachea is definitely a condition in dogs. Smaller dogs are more prone to it.
B/c I live in a 3rd floor apartment, my dog doesn't wear a collar at all. His ID tags go on the harness, since he only ever goes outside in the harness. If I lived in a house with a backyard or just had a front door that directly went outside, I'd probably stick the collar back on full time.
posted by litera scripta manet at 7:20 PM on January 11 [1 favorite]
B/c I live in a 3rd floor apartment, my dog doesn't wear a collar at all. His ID tags go on the harness, since he only ever goes outside in the harness. If I lived in a house with a backyard or just had a front door that directly went outside, I'd probably stick the collar back on full time.
posted by litera scripta manet at 7:20 PM on January 11 [1 favorite]
My dearly departed dog was constantly getting hot spot rashes under her collars. We finally found one that worked for her and didn't irritate her skin, and she wore it the rest of her life, but it took a ton of trial and error and we spent a lot of dumb money on collars while we tried to get it figured out. So it's definitely the case that a collar can be an uncomfortable addition to a dog's life.
But yes, the point of a collar is that if your dog escapes your property, which this dog also did all the damn time, people have an easy way to contact you. She always walked with a harness.
posted by potrzebie at 7:44 PM on January 11 [1 favorite]
But yes, the point of a collar is that if your dog escapes your property, which this dog also did all the damn time, people have an easy way to contact you. She always walked with a harness.
posted by potrzebie at 7:44 PM on January 11 [1 favorite]
It depends somewhat on the breed, but dogs (and all quadruped mammals) have more musculature on their necks because they have to balance their heads out in front of the rest of their bodies. They also develop heavier muscling because of how they use their teeth essentially the way that humans use their hands. Humans, on the other hand, have very little musculature on ours necks because our heads balance on top of our spines. Dogs in the generic sense also fight, in part, by grabbing the skin on the neck, and so their necks are also sturdier and less sensitive to pressure because of that. Specific breeds may have less muscle or thinner skin, but in general its misleading to compare the fragility of the human neck to a dog's.
It is true that smaller dogs or dogs that pull relentlessly on leash or hit the end of a long lead at full speed can injure their trachea, but normal leash pressure on a collar is not particularly bothersome or harmful to most dogs (in fact, some dogs with heavier neck structures are so insensitive to collar pressure that it's not a very effective way to control them from pulling).
posted by drlith at 7:51 PM on January 11 [11 favorites]
It is true that smaller dogs or dogs that pull relentlessly on leash or hit the end of a long lead at full speed can injure their trachea, but normal leash pressure on a collar is not particularly bothersome or harmful to most dogs (in fact, some dogs with heavier neck structures are so insensitive to collar pressure that it's not a very effective way to control them from pulling).
posted by drlith at 7:51 PM on January 11 [11 favorites]
I know this will not go over well, but...
Use a pinch collar. there won't be any pulling. Don't use these for training. But if on a walk? They won't pull. I don't walk our dogs, but Ms. Windo would be getting dragged all over if they were in harnesses.
I grew up in the training time of standard choke chains. But they were like a car horn, to get attention. Seems those are not in favor anymore.
And we have standard poodles, and we have not had any problems with hotspots. Poodles are different than other dogs hair-wise, but just make sure as they get hairier, you make them a bit bigger until their next haircut.
posted by Windopaene at 8:31 PM on January 11 [2 favorites]
Use a pinch collar. there won't be any pulling. Don't use these for training. But if on a walk? They won't pull. I don't walk our dogs, but Ms. Windo would be getting dragged all over if they were in harnesses.
I grew up in the training time of standard choke chains. But they were like a car horn, to get attention. Seems those are not in favor anymore.
And we have standard poodles, and we have not had any problems with hotspots. Poodles are different than other dogs hair-wise, but just make sure as they get hairier, you make them a bit bigger until their next haircut.
posted by Windopaene at 8:31 PM on January 11 [2 favorites]
Please ignore the recommendation above to use a pinch collar. They are inhumane and inflict pain and suffering on dogs, which is why animal welfare experts recommend against them.
posted by Weng at 10:38 PM on January 11 [13 favorites]
posted by Weng at 10:38 PM on January 11 [13 favorites]
I disagree. Told you I would get pushback.
Not for training. But for an essentially passive activity like walking? They are not inhumane. They teach the dog that pulling is bad. They reinforce that not pulling is a good thing. In a mildly unpleasant way for them.
If all of our dogs were mellow, and trained well, no problem. But not all are. I am all about them being crazy when they are off leash, and in the back yard. But when you are walking them on a leash, and there is a rabbit or cat over there, they need to not go crazy and chase. Harness? good luck. Pinch? they will not drag you.
I grew up with Goldens, they wanted to please. Standard Poodles, not so much. Many other breeds as well. They are going to do what they want to do. Your job as a dog owner is to make sure they don't want to do that. And, I think dogs are the best people. But they will do what they can.
Negative, passive, reinforcement works. Don't want to argue, so I am out.
Dogs are the best. Make your dogs behave.
posted by Windopaene at 11:04 PM on January 11 [1 favorite]
Not for training. But for an essentially passive activity like walking? They are not inhumane. They teach the dog that pulling is bad. They reinforce that not pulling is a good thing. In a mildly unpleasant way for them.
If all of our dogs were mellow, and trained well, no problem. But not all are. I am all about them being crazy when they are off leash, and in the back yard. But when you are walking them on a leash, and there is a rabbit or cat over there, they need to not go crazy and chase. Harness? good luck. Pinch? they will not drag you.
I grew up with Goldens, they wanted to please. Standard Poodles, not so much. Many other breeds as well. They are going to do what they want to do. Your job as a dog owner is to make sure they don't want to do that. And, I think dogs are the best people. But they will do what they can.
Negative, passive, reinforcement works. Don't want to argue, so I am out.
Dogs are the best. Make your dogs behave.
posted by Windopaene at 11:04 PM on January 11 [1 favorite]
I have a pug and use a harness with him for his leash. I would never use a collar, on him or on any dog.
Imagine someone would like you to move, for whatever reason. You happen to be wearing a vested suit. Would you want someone to pull you gently by your vest, or grab you by the neck and strangle you in order to move. A collar does the same.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 11:58 PM on January 11 [2 favorites]
Imagine someone would like you to move, for whatever reason. You happen to be wearing a vested suit. Would you want someone to pull you gently by your vest, or grab you by the neck and strangle you in order to move. A collar does the same.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 11:58 PM on January 11 [2 favorites]
It seems like most dogs wear collars all their lives and don't seem to have horrible neck injuries in their old age.
Hahaha. No. They absolutely do have horrible neck injuries. You're underestimating dogs' skill in masking pain. For predators, showing pain is dangerous. You are also wildly overestimating their ability to communicate pain, and their owners' ability to understand them.
Dogs often have lame or numb forelegs due to pinched nerves, leading to excessive licking. They suffer from glaucoma due to increased eye pressure. They have unidentified neck or back pain that just leads to lower activity levels or perhaps grumpiness. They have headaches, hypothyroidism, irritated larynxes, and fractured vertebrae. And many, many dogs are walking around coughing and wheezing for years as their trachea is slowly collapsing. All of those problems are symptoms of the collar syndrome. Not just for dogs who pull, either. One jerk from a distracted human very quickly changing course can collapse a trachea or irreparably damage the spine, just like with people. That's how sensitive necks are. It is not true that canine anatomy is very different from our own. In fact, their skin is thinner and the neck/throat area especially is extremely similar to ours. Ask your vet.
To the idea that dogs would just decide to stop pulling if they were in pain, I think Emily Larlham puts it best:
"Some dogs would chase a ball or herd sheep until they died from overheating. I know dogs that have broken off their teeth trying to get through fence or crate, and dogs that have ripped out their toenails scratching at the door when an owner left for 5 minutes. My border collie ripped off the pads of her feet while playing in the desert and did not show any behavioral signs of injury until she got up from a nap, and I realized the pads of her feet were gone. If you have watched the show Animal Cops you might have seen abuse cases of ingrown collars and severe neck lacerations, where dogs are walking around normally as if nothing happened with a huge gaping neck wound. Dogs do not exhibit or react to injury in the same ways we do."
I'm not a vet, but I am a dog trainer who's spoken to many vets about this. I believe that in the next few decades, collars will become illegal in Europe. I can't wait! Not only do collars hurt dogs, they also create behavioral problems because they can be so painful and dogs don't know how to communicate this. Trainers see many dogs who suddenly develop aggression when their spine or neck is touched. There's a reason we send those dogs straight to the vet. It is alarming that their owners don't think to do this, and evidence for the sad fact that dogs are largely seen as "malfunctioning" when they show pain in the only way they know. So many owners disregard their dogs pain - you're seeing it on this thread, where one recommendation is to cause guaranteed pain ("discomfort") to reduce the chance of accidental pain...
Sources.
posted by toucan at 4:12 AM on January 12 [8 favorites]
Hahaha. No. They absolutely do have horrible neck injuries. You're underestimating dogs' skill in masking pain. For predators, showing pain is dangerous. You are also wildly overestimating their ability to communicate pain, and their owners' ability to understand them.
Dogs often have lame or numb forelegs due to pinched nerves, leading to excessive licking. They suffer from glaucoma due to increased eye pressure. They have unidentified neck or back pain that just leads to lower activity levels or perhaps grumpiness. They have headaches, hypothyroidism, irritated larynxes, and fractured vertebrae. And many, many dogs are walking around coughing and wheezing for years as their trachea is slowly collapsing. All of those problems are symptoms of the collar syndrome. Not just for dogs who pull, either. One jerk from a distracted human very quickly changing course can collapse a trachea or irreparably damage the spine, just like with people. That's how sensitive necks are. It is not true that canine anatomy is very different from our own. In fact, their skin is thinner and the neck/throat area especially is extremely similar to ours. Ask your vet.
To the idea that dogs would just decide to stop pulling if they were in pain, I think Emily Larlham puts it best:
"Some dogs would chase a ball or herd sheep until they died from overheating. I know dogs that have broken off their teeth trying to get through fence or crate, and dogs that have ripped out their toenails scratching at the door when an owner left for 5 minutes. My border collie ripped off the pads of her feet while playing in the desert and did not show any behavioral signs of injury until she got up from a nap, and I realized the pads of her feet were gone. If you have watched the show Animal Cops you might have seen abuse cases of ingrown collars and severe neck lacerations, where dogs are walking around normally as if nothing happened with a huge gaping neck wound. Dogs do not exhibit or react to injury in the same ways we do."
I'm not a vet, but I am a dog trainer who's spoken to many vets about this. I believe that in the next few decades, collars will become illegal in Europe. I can't wait! Not only do collars hurt dogs, they also create behavioral problems because they can be so painful and dogs don't know how to communicate this. Trainers see many dogs who suddenly develop aggression when their spine or neck is touched. There's a reason we send those dogs straight to the vet. It is alarming that their owners don't think to do this, and evidence for the sad fact that dogs are largely seen as "malfunctioning" when they show pain in the only way they know. So many owners disregard their dogs pain - you're seeing it on this thread, where one recommendation is to cause guaranteed pain ("discomfort") to reduce the chance of accidental pain...
Sources.
posted by toucan at 4:12 AM on January 12 [8 favorites]
Thank you for that, toucan. My small dogs wear harnesses to walk, and I take them off in the house. They are microchipped but I also have the experience of them getting loose (once each) and... not going anywhere. When I see small dogs pulling on collars, I usually suggest to the owners that a harness is safer, less painful, etc. Sometimes it's taken well. Sometimes not. Larger dogs deserve the same but as mentioned above, tracheal collapse is much more likely in smols.
posted by Glinn at 7:41 AM on January 12 [1 favorite]
posted by Glinn at 7:41 AM on January 12 [1 favorite]
Like others above, I always walk my dog in a harness. In his case, he also starts coughing and reverse sneezing within a few days of putting on a (looser side of well-fitting) collar, even with no leash ever attached, so we don't bother with collars anymore*. He wears his tags on his harness and it's never been an issue for us. He also wears the harness most of the time in the house which is an unpopular choice but we monitor for issues like underarm irritation/matting and honestly it's never been an issue.
*the exception for us is if we're on vacation somewhere unfamiliar where we want to be extra cautious about any escape risk; in that case we have him wear both the collar and the harness with tags. Might be overkill, but eh.
posted by mosst at 8:01 AM on January 12
*the exception for us is if we're on vacation somewhere unfamiliar where we want to be extra cautious about any escape risk; in that case we have him wear both the collar and the harness with tags. Might be overkill, but eh.
posted by mosst at 8:01 AM on January 12
We had to switch our dog from harness to collar after she had surgery on her shoulder and torso--the fur never grew back and the harness was very painful for her where it rubbed. (We had some luck with a harness that was kind of like a puffer coat but obvs that won't work for a husky in summer.) She is clearly less comfortable in the collar than in her pre-surgery harness, but more than in the post-surgery harness. It's an imperfect solution but she has to be walked and our city has leash laws. She is a calm walker though, and doesn't pull, so we're not worried about active injury.
Just a data point that not every person you see with a dog in a neck collar is an ignorant monster I guess. But in general there is an understanding that collars are not the best.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 8:18 AM on January 12
Just a data point that not every person you see with a dog in a neck collar is an ignorant monster I guess. But in general there is an understanding that collars are not the best.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 8:18 AM on January 12
Collars are not great overall. We stopped regularly putting them on our dogs except when it was best they had some kind of identifier on them, after my dogsitters experienced an absolutely horrific event when they showed up to walk two dogs left alone at home with collars on. (I would not leave an animal harnessed unattended, for the same reasons.)
We'd already had a couple of incidents where even a big-headed dog almost managed to back out of a collar in a panic in a bad situation, but the warning from our sitters solidified our switch to harnesses. All future dogs will be chipped, and I'm willing to use a small breakaway collar to hold an airtag and engraved tag, but I've already tried that on the cat and she just looks at us as she breaks it off, so she gets to wear her vest-harness when we're traveling, with the tags on that.
Those same dogsitters (former Marine K9 trainer, local humane society trainer-trainer) recommended to double-leash a pulling or easily triggered dog with both a body harness AND a head harness like the Gentle Leader. They recommended having both in your go-bag for fire/earthquake evacuations (in SoCal) because that's likely to be an intense confusing situation and the best time to lose a poorly-secured frightened dog.
It is true that dogs have a neck musculature that can withstand a LOT. But, anything that can hang a dog runs the risk of hanging a dog, largely in situations you can't think of until you can, and it's definitely not the best way to control/maintain control of a dog in all situations.
posted by Lyn Never at 2:46 PM on January 12
We'd already had a couple of incidents where even a big-headed dog almost managed to back out of a collar in a panic in a bad situation, but the warning from our sitters solidified our switch to harnesses. All future dogs will be chipped, and I'm willing to use a small breakaway collar to hold an airtag and engraved tag, but I've already tried that on the cat and she just looks at us as she breaks it off, so she gets to wear her vest-harness when we're traveling, with the tags on that.
Those same dogsitters (former Marine K9 trainer, local humane society trainer-trainer) recommended to double-leash a pulling or easily triggered dog with both a body harness AND a head harness like the Gentle Leader. They recommended having both in your go-bag for fire/earthquake evacuations (in SoCal) because that's likely to be an intense confusing situation and the best time to lose a poorly-secured frightened dog.
It is true that dogs have a neck musculature that can withstand a LOT. But, anything that can hang a dog runs the risk of hanging a dog, largely in situations you can't think of until you can, and it's definitely not the best way to control/maintain control of a dog in all situations.
posted by Lyn Never at 2:46 PM on January 12
Just came in to add that head halters, while better for the trachea, come with the same risks of spinal injuries. But Lyn Never, you bring up a good point about panicked dogs, who can and will slip out of regular harnesses and collars.
For at-risk dogs like that, I use a safety harness with an extra "belt" closer to the dog's tail end. In a pinch, if you're out with a dog who gets scared and don't have a special harness, it is always a good idea to just clip the leash to your dog's chest. Dogs free themselves from harnesses by pulling backwards and straining against the leash until it's pulled over their head inside out. Clipped to the chest, this becomes less likely.
posted by toucan at 4:44 PM on January 12
For at-risk dogs like that, I use a safety harness with an extra "belt" closer to the dog's tail end. In a pinch, if you're out with a dog who gets scared and don't have a special harness, it is always a good idea to just clip the leash to your dog's chest. Dogs free themselves from harnesses by pulling backwards and straining against the leash until it's pulled over their head inside out. Clipped to the chest, this becomes less likely.
posted by toucan at 4:44 PM on January 12
If you are going to use a collar, consider using a Martingale collar with a quick-release clasp like this one (Amazon). Since they loosen and tighten, they are useful for training a dog who has never used a collar before, and are also a lot more difficult for dogs to back out.
posted by answergrape at 11:18 AM on January 17
posted by answergrape at 11:18 AM on January 17
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posted by fritley at 4:48 PM on January 11 [7 favorites]