Can you help me understand this Asbestos Certificate?
December 29, 2023 8:01 AM Subscribe
I have an asbestos certificate document, but I don't know what it means. Is it safe to live in this apartment? Here's the certificate: page 1, page 2.
This is Montreal, Quebec, Canada.
This is Montreal, Quebec, Canada.
Response by poster: These renos were done in Nov 2022 , a month after that certificate was released:
- Level the ceiling with firrings using a laser to ensure a level finished product.
- Supply and install drywall to the ceiling and upper part of the demolished wall, where the plater moulding was removed.
- Supply and install drywall to the upper part of this wall area, tape all joints, repair cracks to the living room only.
- Apply a coat of primer to the new drywall areas, paint the ceiling and walls.
Does that mean that I should try to get an air inspection for the asbestos?
posted by plant or animal at 8:53 AM on December 29, 2023
- Level the ceiling with firrings using a laser to ensure a level finished product.
- Supply and install drywall to the ceiling and upper part of the demolished wall, where the plater moulding was removed.
- Supply and install drywall to the upper part of this wall area, tape all joints, repair cracks to the living room only.
- Apply a coat of primer to the new drywall areas, paint the ceiling and walls.
Does that mean that I should try to get an air inspection for the asbestos?
posted by plant or animal at 8:53 AM on December 29, 2023
Depending on how much you want the apartment, here are some ideas:
- Ask the apartment management company if there was a new asbestos inspection after the renovation; If they dismiss the idea, then:
- they'll probably tell you this repair method was good enough by some standard or someone's estimation; follow up on that to determine how authoritative that entity is and if that's actually what they said.
- call the most reputable contracting/remodeling companies you could find and ask if painting over asbestos is up to standards;
- maybe ask whatever government agency handles codes for these things;
- if you can get an air inspection, that would be helpful, but not definitive;
- If there is asbestos under the paint, get something in writing from the management company saying that they will immediately pay to put you up in one of three specific hotels, or another that you choose, if there is any damage to the ceiling, including water damage, that in _your_ estimation _might_ lead to asbestos exposure, or to repairs that can cause asbestos exposure, until the ceiling is repaired or replaced and passes an asbestos inspection (specify inspector or agency);
- In any case, ask and get in writing what they will do if asbestos is found later;
- If possible, get info from other tenants about how well this issue is handled in other units and about their responsiveness in general, and maybe assess the financial health of the complex and/or landlords.
(Doing all of the above would be a lot - these are just ideas, and you can choose which make sense to you.)
posted by amtho at 9:18 AM on December 29, 2023 [1 favorite]
- Ask the apartment management company if there was a new asbestos inspection after the renovation; If they dismiss the idea, then:
- they'll probably tell you this repair method was good enough by some standard or someone's estimation; follow up on that to determine how authoritative that entity is and if that's actually what they said.
- call the most reputable contracting/remodeling companies you could find and ask if painting over asbestos is up to standards;
- maybe ask whatever government agency handles codes for these things;
- if you can get an air inspection, that would be helpful, but not definitive;
- If there is asbestos under the paint, get something in writing from the management company saying that they will immediately pay to put you up in one of three specific hotels, or another that you choose, if there is any damage to the ceiling, including water damage, that in _your_ estimation _might_ lead to asbestos exposure, or to repairs that can cause asbestos exposure, until the ceiling is repaired or replaced and passes an asbestos inspection (specify inspector or agency);
- In any case, ask and get in writing what they will do if asbestos is found later;
- If possible, get info from other tenants about how well this issue is handled in other units and about their responsiveness in general, and maybe assess the financial health of the complex and/or landlords.
(Doing all of the above would be a lot - these are just ideas, and you can choose which make sense to you.)
posted by amtho at 9:18 AM on December 29, 2023 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Quick note, this is not a tenant situation, I don't need tips for anything outside the questions "is this a safe place" "is it possible to determine that this place is safe"? ;)
posted by plant or animal at 9:27 AM on December 29, 2023
posted by plant or animal at 9:27 AM on December 29, 2023
If you are the owner of this apartment and the workers hired to repair the ceiling were not informed of the presence of asbestos-containing materials and they were not trained to handle asbestos then this repair would not have been safe for the workers. In addition, the waste produced by the repairs might not be safe. Asbestos fibers might have been released into the air. Without appropriate precautions, it is possible asbestos-containing dust might have been spread to other areas, which might release asbestos fibers at some later date when the dust is disturbed. If you have reason to believe your apartment contains asbestos-containing materials that have been significantly disturbed, then just testing the air may be insufficient. Sampling the dust in air ducts or other areas might be necessary. Some form of asbestos remediation may be required.
If the repairs to the asbestos-containing ceiling were done by workers not trained to handle asbestos safely you're probably beyond the point were taking advice from strangers on the internet is a good idea. In this case I think you should consider using the services of a professional asbestos consulting service. In the US individuals who perform this service are called Certified Asbestos Consultants (I don't know what Canada calls them). If you have an asbestos inspector you like they might be able to recommend one. Inform the consultant about the asbestos material in the ceiling, give them a copy of the certificate, let them know the scope and type of repairs that were done to the ceiling that were done without appropriate asbestos safety precautions, and ask for advice on how to proceed with testing and possible remediation.
posted by RichardP at 9:44 AM on December 29, 2023 [2 favorites]
If the repairs to the asbestos-containing ceiling were done by workers not trained to handle asbestos safely you're probably beyond the point were taking advice from strangers on the internet is a good idea. In this case I think you should consider using the services of a professional asbestos consulting service. In the US individuals who perform this service are called Certified Asbestos Consultants (I don't know what Canada calls them). If you have an asbestos inspector you like they might be able to recommend one. Inform the consultant about the asbestos material in the ceiling, give them a copy of the certificate, let them know the scope and type of repairs that were done to the ceiling that were done without appropriate asbestos safety precautions, and ask for advice on how to proceed with testing and possible remediation.
posted by RichardP at 9:44 AM on December 29, 2023 [2 favorites]
Best answer: You actually have not given us all the info. to go on to give an informed answer.
Hard agreeing with RichardP and amtho (my background - a building where I used to work had an asbestos ceiling in the attic that was actively deteriorating and releasing asbestos fibers. My department had artifacts stored there that were asbestos contaminated from this and so had to deal with all that that entailed, and I participated in some of that.)
Did the contractors know about the certificate/asbestos when they did the renovations and take any asbestos precautions? Was any of the surface of this ceiling disturbed in any way during the renovations? (I am assuming it probably was?) If so, some of the asbestos fibers in the ceiling could have been released into the apartment during that time. What kind of cleanup was done after the renovations? I would want all surfaces, including all walls, to have been cleaned with some kind of HEPA filter vacuuming (places like kitchen and bathroom could also have wet wiping done.) That should have been done wearing protection and a respirator and with air barriers in place if the ceiling was disturbed during the renovation. Was the apartment/renovated area empty of all contents (and residents) when the renovation was done?
Short version - there are standard protocols/laws for renovation work and cleanup if there is asbestos present that will be disturbed during the renovation. Was the ceiling disturbed/surface broken during the reno.? Were the protocols followed, including proper cleanup?
What you need to find out is what may have been disturbed during the renovation, and, most importantly, if a proper cleanup was done afterwards.
If a proper cleanup was done, and the ceiling is currently fully intact and not deteriorating in any way, and is not disturbed in any way going forward, then you should be able to live there safely.
FYI, there are a couple of ways asbestos can harm your health. You as residents are not at risk for asbestosis in this situation. Mesothelioma is what we are talking about.
TLDR - consult an asbestos professional.
posted by gudrun at 9:52 AM on December 29, 2023 [2 favorites]
Hard agreeing with RichardP and amtho (my background - a building where I used to work had an asbestos ceiling in the attic that was actively deteriorating and releasing asbestos fibers. My department had artifacts stored there that were asbestos contaminated from this and so had to deal with all that that entailed, and I participated in some of that.)
Did the contractors know about the certificate/asbestos when they did the renovations and take any asbestos precautions? Was any of the surface of this ceiling disturbed in any way during the renovations? (I am assuming it probably was?) If so, some of the asbestos fibers in the ceiling could have been released into the apartment during that time. What kind of cleanup was done after the renovations? I would want all surfaces, including all walls, to have been cleaned with some kind of HEPA filter vacuuming (places like kitchen and bathroom could also have wet wiping done.) That should have been done wearing protection and a respirator and with air barriers in place if the ceiling was disturbed during the renovation. Was the apartment/renovated area empty of all contents (and residents) when the renovation was done?
Short version - there are standard protocols/laws for renovation work and cleanup if there is asbestos present that will be disturbed during the renovation. Was the ceiling disturbed/surface broken during the reno.? Were the protocols followed, including proper cleanup?
What you need to find out is what may have been disturbed during the renovation, and, most importantly, if a proper cleanup was done afterwards.
If a proper cleanup was done, and the ceiling is currently fully intact and not deteriorating in any way, and is not disturbed in any way going forward, then you should be able to live there safely.
FYI, there are a couple of ways asbestos can harm your health. You as residents are not at risk for asbestosis in this situation. Mesothelioma is what we are talking about.
TLDR - consult an asbestos professional.
posted by gudrun at 9:52 AM on December 29, 2023 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: Thanks for your help! This lead me to ask to right questions and I got another doc establishing that the protocol cleanup was followed (and it was crazy expensive hehe).
posted by plant or animal at 10:24 AM on December 29, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by plant or animal at 10:24 AM on December 29, 2023 [4 favorites]
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For some guidance, see Asbestos In The Home by the US Consumer Product Safety Commission. In particular, see the section What Should Be Done About Asbestos In The Home:
posted by RichardP at 8:28 AM on December 29, 2023 [8 favorites]