Do washing machines just suck now?

December 14, 2023 5:48 PM

Due to unfortunate circumstances, i was forced to replace my paleolithic sears 50 gallons a second washer with a higher-end washer/dryer combo. It was great at first, but now my clothes smell like soap a bit more every wash and i can't stand it. Any easy fixes here, from anyone who's dealt with this?

So i'll preface this with the fact that i have an extensive technical background. The dryer function on this machine briefly stopped working, i tore it to pieces, diagnosed the bad sensor issue, and have it running like a swiss watch. The guts of this thing are sparkling clean, it's working as good as it's ever going to work. And it does, on paper, do a great job! I never have to run the "dry" cycle twice or anything, it gets clothes visually super clean! It's not like, poorly reviewed online beyond complaints about "I put 50 blankets in and it didnt dry them!"

The issue seems to be that it just doesn't rinse the clothes very good. I have several kinds of HE detergent here, and i'm using the amount recommend on the package for the size of load i put in. I always select the "extra rinse" option, as i have sensitive skin and hate detergent smells. This was brilliant for a couple months, but lately every load REEKS of soapy smell and leaves my skin red.

Things i've tried:
Verifying there's good water pressure to the machine, and that its filling properly, and there's no issues with the pressure switch/water level mechanism
It's draining quickly and efficiently, there's nothing in the pump filter and water rockets out of the hose
Cleaning the machine with washer cleaner, rinsing it out, wiping everything down
Cleaning the detergent tray
Detergent in drum vs in the tray
Multiple detergents
Fancy high tech meme detergent(defunkify, left everything feeling like cardboard)
Halving the detergent dose
Larger loads, smaller loads

The machine does have a "water plus!" option that puts a lot more water in, but the issue then is that it seems like there's not enough detergent and things come out still smelling/looking dirty. I feel like an insane goldilocks here. I've resorted to running a full normal cycle, and then a second "water plus" cycle with nothing but water. This takes all day, and feels quite wasteful.

What am i missing, mefi?

posted by emptythought to Home & Garden (23 answers total)

i'm using the amount recommend on the package for the size of load i put in

There's your problem.

I'm a pretty low adopter of the Pet Metafilter Conspiracies list, but this is one I believe is absolutely true: the laundry soap people make their recommendations based on selling you laundry soap.

Use like. Half. Literally of the recommended amount of detergent. Maybe even less than half. And do that in addition to extra rinses.

It's primarily the friction action of your washer's agitation action that washes your clothes, the soap is there to assist carrying the oils away.
posted by phunniemee at 6:04 PM on December 14, 2023 [52 favorites]

Are you using unscented detergent, like All Free & Clear? I think most laundry products smell too strong, so if you're using scented detergent, switch to unscented. Agree about using way LESS detergent than is recommended.
posted by XtineHutch at 6:09 PM on December 14, 2023 [6 favorites]

Based on what you've outlined it doesn't seem like you should be having this problem, so I'm not at all confident that I have a solution for you, but I do have a few thoughts:

First and most obviously, have you tried unscented/free/clear detergents? I do suspect grocery store brands like Tide Free and Gentle have some scent, but many of the more hardcore mail order or food co-op brands really do have no added scent whatsoever. When you say you "hate detergent smells" do you mean you hate the smell of the actual surfactants and other ingredients, etc?

I assume your new washer is high efficiency (he) and the old one was not. If that's the case you may need to *radically* adjust your concept of how much detergent you need to use. I think I use a tablespoon or less per load unless the clothes are heavily soiled. This is probably far less than half of the recommendation. If I'm dealing with clothing that's normally soiled (like, I wore it to work for two or three days and wasn't sweating or working outside) this is absolutely enough to get it clean. If you have items that are unusually smelly, like synthetic athletic gear, separate and wash more aggressively, possibly with warm or hot water and a different/more aggressive detergent.

Finally, does your washer only allow one extra rinse cycle, and does it not have a separate "rinse and spin" cycle? Both seem ubiquitous in recent models; mine can do up to three extra rinses tacked on to the end of a normal wash cycle. I usually do one extra but if I have to run a load with lots of detergent I add all three. Since it's a high efficiency machine this still uses less water than our old Kenmore, so I do not feel particularly guilty about it. And the standalone "rinse and spin" cycle is, I think, 20 minutes, so if I need to use it, it definitely doesn't make it feel like I spent all day on the laundry.
posted by pullayup at 6:11 PM on December 14, 2023 [1 favorite]

What brand and model of washing machine?

Also seconding phunniemee that many HE detergents dramatically overstate the required amount of detergent — although I see you’ve already tried reducing the detergent dose. Might be worth continuing to reducing the dose even more until you hit the point where your clothes no longer feel clean. Very little soap is really required to clean clothes. On that same note, if your clothes smell like soap, there is probably enough detergent already impregnated in them to get them clean — so you could run a load without adding additional detergent at all.

That said, this sounds like an annoying problem and it might be worth contacting the manufacturer’s support line to see if you’re missing something.
posted by mekily at 6:11 PM on December 14, 2023

i'm using the amount recommend on the package for the size of load i put in

There's your problem.

I'm a pretty low adopter of the Pet Metafilter Conspiracies list, but this is one I believe is absolutely true: the laundry soap people make their recommendations based on selling you laundry soap.

I read an article where someone at one of the washer manufacturers was quoted and this is something they said. Follow the detergent recommendation on the machine because the laundry soap people will have you use too much.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 6:12 PM on December 14, 2023 [2 favorites]

It seems silly, but is there an option to only run a rinse cycle? What’s your success with running a normal load with half the recommended detergent and then doing a separate rinse cycle? I feel like “extra” rinse cycle that is an “add on” to a normal cycle is more like a .5 rinse. It sounds like the answer is no, but do you want your clothes to also “smell clean” or just be clean at the end? Do you care if there’s no scent at all?

I heard that washers need the friction to get things clean which is why completely submerged clothes don’t get clean- they can’t move enough for them to actually get washed.
posted by raccoon409 at 6:12 PM on December 14, 2023

We use the detergent strips now, and half a strip works great on a big load and leaves no smell or residue in our HE front load washer.
posted by gregr at 6:12 PM on December 14, 2023 [6 favorites]

Living in Seattle, where the water is very soft, I need to use noticeably less soap and detergent than in places with even slightly hard water.
posted by mbrubeck at 6:19 PM on December 14, 2023 [2 favorites]

You absolutely need to use far less detergent. I have an HE washer, and I use 2 tablespoons of liquid HE detergent (Persil Free & Sensitive). Sometimes I only use 1. The Wirecutter has done the testing. Since you have detergent build-up in your clothes, you might want to run several loads with washing soda. You probably don't need to actually strip your laundry, you can just sprinkle a little washing soda into the drum of your machine for your next several loads, until you stop smelling the detergent in your clothes.
posted by OrangeDisk at 6:19 PM on December 14, 2023 [1 favorite]

Also, like, I hate being a shill on Metafilter, but Bosch makes a great washing machine. If you determine your washer (and not your technique, your clothing, or the runoff from the detergent factory next door leaking into your water supply) is the problem, consider a Bosch.
posted by pullayup at 6:21 PM on December 14, 2023

Are you using All Free & Clear? I have a legendary nose, no kidding, people tell stories about me to amaze their friends. And I'm having trouble imagining my laundry reeking of soapy smell, but I do use All Free & Clear. And I also use a reduced amount, as everyone else is recommending. Also I have an LG front loader and I don't think it sucks at all. It has an extra rinse cycle, which I usually use, but even if I didn't I don't think I'd have a soapy smell.
posted by HotToddy at 6:26 PM on December 14, 2023

I think you've identified the solution: run it twice. I don't think this is unacceptably wasteful, probably no different than the water plus option, frankly.
posted by shadygrove at 6:27 PM on December 14, 2023

Propylene glycol is a very very common detergent ingredient. It's also a bit irritating to everyone's skin (just a little) because it actually increases absorption of other irritants.

I'm extra sensitive/actually allergic to it, so I know that Seventh Generation Free & Clear doesn't contain it. Recommended.

I did a test when we first got our new washer - run a load, then take a t-shirt over to a kitchen sink full of water and see if dipping/dripping water from it it in the sink caused bubbles. It was still soapy after the second cycle (with extra deep water setting). So, when I have to use a full dose of detergent, I run three cycles. Sorry world.

But: I also separate clothes by how dense the fabric is, and how dirty they are. The lightweight underwear and shirts need the most detergent, but fortunately I can fit a lot in one load. I can also use less detergent but add vinegar - that gets a lot of dirt/odor out very non-toxically.

Then for jeans, I don't need to wash them very thoroughly. They don't generally come into contact with much smelly stuff, so I can wash them with minimal detergent and only rinse once.

I also try to make sure my bath towels dry completely between showers, so they don't need to be washed/dried much - those use a lot of water to rinse.
posted by amtho at 6:43 PM on December 14, 2023 [1 favorite]

It sounds like this issue is getting worse over time, so there might be some buildup in the machine. When you say you've cleaned it with washer cleaner, do you mean you've run that through the tub cleaning cycle? Have you tried running a tub cleaning cycle, with a tablespoon or so of citric acid, once every month or two?

That said, if your laundry detergent is irritating and smelly, get one that doesn't smell or irritate! I use 30ml of Nellie's per load in a HE front-loading washer. It really doesn't smell, other than slightly soapy, if you open the washer during the wash cycle.
posted by ssg at 7:29 PM on December 14, 2023 [1 favorite]

laundry soap people make their recommendations based on selling you laundry soap.

Definitely. I realized this when Chlorox had a commercial in the 90s wherein, having already defeated their competitors, they compared the results of "Chlorox" and "Twice as much Chlorox".

We use about 1/4 of the recommended amount of Tide powder or equivalent.
posted by mmoncur at 7:58 PM on December 14, 2023

I on the use less and better soap bandwagon, but in all tests, anything "free and clear" is mysterious not as good as anything scenting with the only possible explanation (that I can think of) is that unscented has less soap because anything that clean can also be irritating.

And when you say "combo" - do it seems you mean one machine and if you are in the US I don't think these, or any other washers or dryers are all that good.

I'll also note that the "use less soap" is not for all. My dog towels, for instance, need real soap. There are plenty of musty folks out there.

In the best of all possible worlds, you should be doing laundry loads of like items and using settings and soaps as need for those items. My work shirts barely need to be rinsed. Saddle pad are another story. I mean, these should be taken down to the river and bashed with rocks and then boiled.
posted by Lesser Shrew at 8:06 PM on December 14, 2023 [1 favorite]

Try the scent-less laundry sheets like Tru Earth. Tear into halves or even quarter sheets. Avoids burning diesel fuel for pointless shipping of water weight also.
posted by kiblinger at 10:50 PM on December 14, 2023

(Most laundry sheets release harmful microfibers and microplastics into the water, sorry to say.)

I use 1/4 to 1/2 of the recommended amount of detergent after reading multiple articles from reliable sources, depending on how dirty the load is. I use vinegar as a fabric softener, which helps dissolve any extraneous detergent caught in the fibers of my laundry. No dryer sheets.
posted by MagnificentVacuum at 11:32 PM on December 14, 2023 [2 favorites]

laundry soap people make their recommendations based on selling you laundry soap.

Just amplifying this. In HE machines a very little soap goes a looooong way.

Because our water isn't the greatest, I also add washing soda and oxygen brightener (Oxy, Nellie's, whatever) to my loads too, which helps.
posted by eekernohan at 6:26 AM on December 15, 2023

All Free and Clear for me and only about 1/3 of what the bottle says. I also add a 1/2 scoop of Oxy
posted by kathrynm at 11:05 AM on December 15, 2023

* amounts of soap that feel comically microscopic. cannot emphasize enough
* borax
* free and clear type soap
* occasional soaking of clothes in laundry sink or 5gal bucket with hot hot water and vinegar and then running it thru a wash cycle with no soap
posted by nixon's meatloaf at 12:08 PM on December 15, 2023 [1 favorite]

Ancient washers are awesome. I'm sorry you had to go HE :( Not great for water but I feel your pain!

I went HE to ancient and noticed I use more soap and more bleach, but even rinse works better. I'm sorry. I already fear the day mine dies :(
posted by esoteric things at 2:47 AM on December 21, 2023

Response by poster: Ok, after an absolutely miserable day of stripping my bed, yanking clothes out of my dresser, and rewashing EVERYTHING with no soap at all... i think me and my little circle of friends/neighbors who use my machine have figured this one out. It ended up being:

1. extra water
2. double rinse
3. use like, half the detergent. maybe 1/3 even.

I was on the right path with the water plus thing, i was just still using too much soap and washing already soap-logged clothes.

I'm using HE detergent, and the amount i'm putting in was not a lot! the "1" line is like at the BOTTOM of the cup. like seriously, it did not feel like some quadruple cheeseburger lifted dodge ram amount... but you really do need to put in a very small amount. To the point that i suspect this giant costco sized jug might last me the life of the machine itself, or me even living in this city. I'm going to end up thrifting a set of measuring spoons, and likely having to decant the detergent jug into something you can acutally pour from in a reasonable way. As it is, the "1" amount was WAY less than we were putting in the old juggernaut, in which you could basically just freepour soap in while talking on the phone and it was always fine.

I'm actually like, really mad at how little you need to put in. Everyone else is using pods, and this thing also sometimes wont even dissolve the pods all the way unless it's on extra water mode. I hate the future. Like seriously, the "too much" amount is probably 1/8th of the included measuring cup. The pods are probably a bad idea honestly.

And like, i can't crap on this machine too hard. It does get clothes cleaner, and it leaves them actually almost dry after spinning. I just wish i could install some kind of "illegal" firmware that made it spray water like an old machine.

Are you using unscented detergent, like All Free & Clear? I think most laundry products smell too strong, so if you're using scented detergent, switch to unscented. Agree about using way LESS detergent than is recommended.

Yes, the free and clear type stuff. Including the hippie conspiracy kind of free and clear stuff. I've tried quite a few kinds.

What brand and model of washing machine?

And when you say "combo" - do it seems you mean one machine and if you are in the US I don't think these, or any other washers or dryers are all that good.

This is actually a great machine, having taken apart many, it's really quite well made and thought out. It's this LG. Some of these combos are junk, but this smaller one looks exactly like the ones i was seeing in europe. I would recommend this model(and NOT a bosch, don't even get me started). I recommend LG in general. I've never seen one of their direct drive washers break in a way you couldn't fix for $30, and in a way someone could follow a youtube video to do.

I will also say what really makes this feel authentically like one of the little euro machines is, i've repaired and used one of the "large" lg front load direct drives, and never had this type of complaint about it. That thing was clearly designed for Big American Laundry and dumped wayyy more water on the clothes.
posted by emptythought at 3:22 AM on December 22, 2023 [2 favorites]