Paying to "prep" the car for a warranty engine replacememt
December 2, 2023 5:33 PM Subscribe
I'm getting a new engine in my Hyundai Tucson under the Theta II class action lawsuit and the dealer says I have to pay nearly $1000 for work to "prep" the car for the new engine. I suspect they'd have to do this anyway and are trying to get away with charging me for it....
I have a Hyundai Tucson that is getting an engine replacement under an extended warranty that resulted from a class action lawsuit. The dealer is telling me I have to pay for the work to "prep" the car for the new (rebuilt) engine. I fully admit that since I only speak rudimentary Car Repair most of what the service manager rattled off as the "prep" work sounded like the adults speaking in Charlie Brown. It seemed it was all about draining various fluids so the 'new' engine would have clean fluids running through it. It seems to me this would need to be done anyway an would be part of the work to replace the engine. He quoted me ~$900 but agreed to give me a dealer 10% off discount.
Anyone else had their Kia/Hyundai engine replaced under this warranty and had to pay this.
People that do speak more fluent Car Repair: Is it legit that I should pay for this? Is this done anyway? Or would they just drain the fluids the "broken" engine has been shedding parts into and put it back into the new engine?
My spidey senses are telling me the dealer is trying to recover some money for the time they are spending on this repair.
I have a Hyundai Tucson that is getting an engine replacement under an extended warranty that resulted from a class action lawsuit. The dealer is telling me I have to pay for the work to "prep" the car for the new (rebuilt) engine. I fully admit that since I only speak rudimentary Car Repair most of what the service manager rattled off as the "prep" work sounded like the adults speaking in Charlie Brown. It seemed it was all about draining various fluids so the 'new' engine would have clean fluids running through it. It seems to me this would need to be done anyway an would be part of the work to replace the engine. He quoted me ~$900 but agreed to give me a dealer 10% off discount.
Anyone else had their Kia/Hyundai engine replaced under this warranty and had to pay this.
People that do speak more fluent Car Repair: Is it legit that I should pay for this? Is this done anyway? Or would they just drain the fluids the "broken" engine has been shedding parts into and put it back into the new engine?
My spidey senses are telling me the dealer is trying to recover some money for the time they are spending on this repair.
Response by poster: Darnit, I forgot to add that I do have a customer service case handler with Hyundai USA. I plan to raise this with them but was hoping to get some data to back up my feeling I should not be paying for this.
posted by CoffeeHikeNapWine at 5:58 PM on December 2, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by CoffeeHikeNapWine at 5:58 PM on December 2, 2023 [1 favorite]
Dealerships get paid by the manufacturer for warranty work they do. So I would expect they're not doing this to recover any costs, but to make extra money.
Maybe you could get a different, slightly-less-shady dealer to do the work?
posted by flimflam at 6:56 PM on December 2, 2023 [2 favorites]
Maybe you could get a different, slightly-less-shady dealer to do the work?
posted by flimflam at 6:56 PM on December 2, 2023 [2 favorites]
There are only two fluids which are directly related to the engine swap- motor oil and coolant/antifreeze.
If the radiator has to be pulled for the engine swap (most likely), some automatic transmission fluid will be lost. (Trans cooler is part of the radiator.) Sometimes an A/C compressor or power steering pump (if the car doesn't have electric power steering) might have to be removed, though the old A/C refrigerant can be recovered and the power steering system probably holds under a quart of fluid. Refilling fluids is just part of the job, none of these fluids are all that expensive or tricky to "install." Absent a detailed list of what they intend to do, this feels like a ripoff, and I can't imagine that Hyundai won't cover basic fluid replacement costs/ shop supplies under warranty, it's just part of the job. There are definitely cases when working on cars where "while we're in there" repairs make sense - if there's a high failure rate part that's hard to access when the engine is in situ, it sometimes makes sense to change it while the engine is out. In that case, I'd expect the dealer to explain it to you like "oh, that composite coolant crossover pipe behind the engine often cracks with age and it's normally 5 hrs labor to replace it, but if we're doing it while the engine is out, it will only be $57 for the part and half an hour labor" (This is a hypothetical example, there may not be any such scenarios in your case.)
posted by Larry David Syndrome at 7:38 PM on December 2, 2023 [7 favorites]
If the radiator has to be pulled for the engine swap (most likely), some automatic transmission fluid will be lost. (Trans cooler is part of the radiator.) Sometimes an A/C compressor or power steering pump (if the car doesn't have electric power steering) might have to be removed, though the old A/C refrigerant can be recovered and the power steering system probably holds under a quart of fluid. Refilling fluids is just part of the job, none of these fluids are all that expensive or tricky to "install." Absent a detailed list of what they intend to do, this feels like a ripoff, and I can't imagine that Hyundai won't cover basic fluid replacement costs/ shop supplies under warranty, it's just part of the job. There are definitely cases when working on cars where "while we're in there" repairs make sense - if there's a high failure rate part that's hard to access when the engine is in situ, it sometimes makes sense to change it while the engine is out. In that case, I'd expect the dealer to explain it to you like "oh, that composite coolant crossover pipe behind the engine often cracks with age and it's normally 5 hrs labor to replace it, but if we're doing it while the engine is out, it will only be $57 for the part and half an hour labor" (This is a hypothetical example, there may not be any such scenarios in your case.)
posted by Larry David Syndrome at 7:38 PM on December 2, 2023 [7 favorites]
No matter what you decide to do in the end, get the dealer to put this work in a detailed written estimate. If they balk at giving you a written estimate, move on to another dealer.
posted by cooker girl at 8:12 AM on December 3, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by cooker girl at 8:12 AM on December 3, 2023 [1 favorite]
Get the written estimate and call your state's attorney general's office. This is very much a thing they should help with. Dealerships are very profitable, this is why.
posted by theora55 at 9:47 AM on December 3, 2023
posted by theora55 at 9:47 AM on December 3, 2023
Earlier this year I had the engine replaced in my Volvo s60. It was replaced as part of a lawsuit/factory recall and there were no additional charges. The dealership also gave us a very nice loaner while we waited the month or so for the new engine to be delivered.
posted by Mr Mister at 12:49 PM on December 3, 2023
posted by Mr Mister at 12:49 PM on December 3, 2023
I'm 99.9% sure this is a scam. Ask the dealer for an actual list of the work they would be doing and tell them you want to get a second opinion. Take that to your contact at Hyundai, then find another dealer to do the work.
If your recall requires the engine be replaced, the engine is being replaced and there's nothing that needs to be done to 'prep' the car for this that isn't an integral part of that process.
posted by dg at 4:23 PM on December 3, 2023 [4 favorites]
If your recall requires the engine be replaced, the engine is being replaced and there's nothing that needs to be done to 'prep' the car for this that isn't an integral part of that process.
posted by dg at 4:23 PM on December 3, 2023 [4 favorites]
Echoing dg. I rebuilt and replaced motors 30 years ago in hobby cars, and coolant (antifreeze), oil, and transmission fluid are just part of the job. I think they’re trying to rip you off.
posted by u2604ab at 8:07 PM on December 3, 2023
posted by u2604ab at 8:07 PM on December 3, 2023
Response by poster: If anyone happens to look again here, I finally got the estimate from the dealer:
-Drive Belt
The crankshaft drives the flat, multi-ribbed serpentine belt to power engine accessories such as the alternator, air conditioning compressor, power steering pump, and sometimes the water pump. The serpentine belt is a modern, more efficient replacement for the earlier "V" belt design. The name serpentine describes the path of the flexible belt; it goes over and around multiple pulleys. This belt has its own tensioner and requires regular inspection and maintenance.
-BG - Cooling System and Cleaning w/ Protection Plan (Ths was it, not other details. *eyeroll*)
-EFI Service (Fuel Injection Cleaning Service)
(EFI or EFi) A system that injects fuel into the engine and includes an electronic control unit to time and meter the flow. Fuel is delivered in intermittent pulses by the opening and closing of solenoid-controlled injectors.
-BG Transmission Service (no other explanation)
posted by CoffeeHikeNapWine at 10:06 AM on December 4, 2023
-Drive Belt
The crankshaft drives the flat, multi-ribbed serpentine belt to power engine accessories such as the alternator, air conditioning compressor, power steering pump, and sometimes the water pump. The serpentine belt is a modern, more efficient replacement for the earlier "V" belt design. The name serpentine describes the path of the flexible belt; it goes over and around multiple pulleys. This belt has its own tensioner and requires regular inspection and maintenance.
-BG - Cooling System and Cleaning w/ Protection Plan (Ths was it, not other details. *eyeroll*)
-EFI Service (Fuel Injection Cleaning Service)
(EFI or EFi) A system that injects fuel into the engine and includes an electronic control unit to time and meter the flow. Fuel is delivered in intermittent pulses by the opening and closing of solenoid-controlled injectors.
-BG Transmission Service (no other explanation)
posted by CoffeeHikeNapWine at 10:06 AM on December 4, 2023
Thanks for the update. Some thoughts below, for what they're worth.
-Drive Belt
The crankshaft drives the flat, multi-ribbed serpentine belt to power engine accessories such as the alternator, air conditioning compressor, power steering pump, and sometimes the water pump. The serpentine belt is a modern, more efficient replacement for the earlier "V" belt design. The name serpentine describes the path of the flexible belt; it goes over and around multiple pulleys. This belt has its own tensioner and requires regular inspection and maintenance.
A more-or-less correct (although irrelevant) explanation of a serpentine belt. Replacing the serpentine belt is unrelated to replacing the engine. If the belt requires replacing at the same time as the engine, this is purely a coincidence and would add very little cost anyway - if the replacement engine doesn't come with a new belt fitted and the existing belt is not serviceable, the only 'extra' involved is the cost of a new belt. Roughly $100 - 200. There is no regular maintenance required, although the belt should be inspected as part of normal servicing and replaced if necessary. It's a reasonable precaution to replace the belt while replacing the engine though, if only because there's no additional labour required, but they should not be charging you labour for that. You could buy a belt yourself and drop it off with the car if it needs replacing.
-BG - Cooling System and Cleaning w/ Protection Plan (Ths was it, not other details. *eyeroll*)
This is absolute bullshit. They're describing coolant. Obviously, the new engine will require coolant - this is part of the normal process of fitting the engine and the dealer will already have been paid for that as part of the repair.
-EFI Service (Fuel Injection Cleaning Service)
(EFI or EFi) A system that injects fuel into the engine and includes an electronic control unit to time and meter the flow. Fuel is delivered in intermittent pulses by the opening and closing of solenoid-controlled injectors.
More absolute bullshit. Fuel injectors can require service from time to time but, for a car still under warranty, this is highly unlikely unless it's done more than 100,000 miles or so.
-BG Transmission Service (no other explanation)
Even more bullshit. Replacing an engine does not require any service work to the transmission. The most that may be required is a top-up of the fluid if some is lost in removing/replacing the cooling system, which is part of the job already.
Some of the above depends on the mileage of the car and, more importantly, on what is being replaced. If they are installing a 'dressed' engine, every component will be brand-new and come with the engine (including belts and injectors etc). If they're installing a 'long' engine, most of the external parts of the engine will be transferred from the existing engine.
The bottom line is that this is a repair being undertaken as part of a recall and there should not be one cent of cost to you. If your car is due for a general service at around the same time, it's probably worth doing it then just for convenience, but don't expect the dealer to discount the cost even though their costs will be lower. Given the attitude of this dealer, I would insist that no extra work be done as part of the recall repair so they don't have any chance to further rip you off. If possible, I suggest you find another dealer to do the work (you may not have a choice).
posted by dg at 1:57 PM on December 4, 2023 [3 favorites]
-Drive Belt
The crankshaft drives the flat, multi-ribbed serpentine belt to power engine accessories such as the alternator, air conditioning compressor, power steering pump, and sometimes the water pump. The serpentine belt is a modern, more efficient replacement for the earlier "V" belt design. The name serpentine describes the path of the flexible belt; it goes over and around multiple pulleys. This belt has its own tensioner and requires regular inspection and maintenance.
A more-or-less correct (although irrelevant) explanation of a serpentine belt. Replacing the serpentine belt is unrelated to replacing the engine. If the belt requires replacing at the same time as the engine, this is purely a coincidence and would add very little cost anyway - if the replacement engine doesn't come with a new belt fitted and the existing belt is not serviceable, the only 'extra' involved is the cost of a new belt. Roughly $100 - 200. There is no regular maintenance required, although the belt should be inspected as part of normal servicing and replaced if necessary. It's a reasonable precaution to replace the belt while replacing the engine though, if only because there's no additional labour required, but they should not be charging you labour for that. You could buy a belt yourself and drop it off with the car if it needs replacing.
-BG - Cooling System and Cleaning w/ Protection Plan (Ths was it, not other details. *eyeroll*)
This is absolute bullshit. They're describing coolant. Obviously, the new engine will require coolant - this is part of the normal process of fitting the engine and the dealer will already have been paid for that as part of the repair.
-EFI Service (Fuel Injection Cleaning Service)
(EFI or EFi) A system that injects fuel into the engine and includes an electronic control unit to time and meter the flow. Fuel is delivered in intermittent pulses by the opening and closing of solenoid-controlled injectors.
More absolute bullshit. Fuel injectors can require service from time to time but, for a car still under warranty, this is highly unlikely unless it's done more than 100,000 miles or so.
-BG Transmission Service (no other explanation)
Even more bullshit. Replacing an engine does not require any service work to the transmission. The most that may be required is a top-up of the fluid if some is lost in removing/replacing the cooling system, which is part of the job already.
Some of the above depends on the mileage of the car and, more importantly, on what is being replaced. If they are installing a 'dressed' engine, every component will be brand-new and come with the engine (including belts and injectors etc). If they're installing a 'long' engine, most of the external parts of the engine will be transferred from the existing engine.
The bottom line is that this is a repair being undertaken as part of a recall and there should not be one cent of cost to you. If your car is due for a general service at around the same time, it's probably worth doing it then just for convenience, but don't expect the dealer to discount the cost even though their costs will be lower. Given the attitude of this dealer, I would insist that no extra work be done as part of the recall repair so they don't have any chance to further rip you off. If possible, I suggest you find another dealer to do the work (you may not have a choice).
posted by dg at 1:57 PM on December 4, 2023 [3 favorites]
Response by poster: Thank you everyone and especially dg for the response on the specific suggested repairs. I really appreciate your thoughts.
When my customer service rep called them about these repairs, the dealer of course said they weren't necessary and wouldn't impact the engine replacement. I have *very strongly* requested they move my car to the dealer where I live for the repair. They would be transporting it here anyway as part of a "reunification" process so I am going to push that there is no extra cost or effort to move it first and let my (more) trusted dealer do the work. I have no idea if they will do this but I am getting it on the record that this dealer tried to scam me and cannot be trusted to properly take care of my car now that they have been called out on it.
posted by CoffeeHikeNapWine at 4:34 PM on December 4, 2023 [5 favorites]
When my customer service rep called them about these repairs, the dealer of course said they weren't necessary and wouldn't impact the engine replacement. I have *very strongly* requested they move my car to the dealer where I live for the repair. They would be transporting it here anyway as part of a "reunification" process so I am going to push that there is no extra cost or effort to move it first and let my (more) trusted dealer do the work. I have no idea if they will do this but I am getting it on the record that this dealer tried to scam me and cannot be trusted to properly take care of my car now that they have been called out on it.
posted by CoffeeHikeNapWine at 4:34 PM on December 4, 2023 [5 favorites]
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One way to find out: tell him you're planning to check with Hyundai USA (contact info here), so he should write you an estimate that you can discuss with them. In my experience, this is the one good thing about working with a dealer: they are afraid of customers contacting the headquarters with a complaint.
posted by BlahLaLa at 5:49 PM on December 2, 2023 [6 favorites]