Finding weird, fun, cutting-edge internet culture in a post-SEO world
November 25, 2023 10:07 AM Subscribe
Most of us would probably agree that the internet now sucks. Is there a practical way to reframe my approach to how I use the internet so that I can still discover cool, new, interesting people and ideas, without wading through sixteen tons of angry garbage? (I'm seeking problem-solving strategies to make lemonade from lemons, not "just give up" cynicism, thanks!) What are the best punk rock, fuck-this approaches for discovering and enjoying the best and weirdest things that the internet still has to offer?
I still mourn old Twitter, which kept me connected to artists, thinkers, and other delightful weirdos. Meanwhile, Reddit's algorithm is so transparently manipulative and rich with rage-bait that it's an insult to one's intelligence. Metafilter isn't what it used to be whether we care to admit it or not. RSS readers are mostly a thing of the past, and even paid RSS readers feel "cheap" because most article headlines now read like stale advertising pitches.
Rather than spending my time lamenting this, I'd like to see if there's a way I can shake things up by shifting or reframing how I search (and use) the internet.
I'm already reading more books and enjoying other analog pleasures - that's not my question. This is about finding creative ways to still enjoy the modern internet in spite of its many, many flaws.
For example, I only found out about neocities because I happened to be in a gaming Discord where someone mentioned it. As another example, my spouse recently made me aware of kagi. However, both examples are the result of pure chance/luck on my part, rather than strategy.
I'd love to hear any practical tips that folks might have for how I can try to make the internet work for me, rather than the other way around.
I still mourn old Twitter, which kept me connected to artists, thinkers, and other delightful weirdos. Meanwhile, Reddit's algorithm is so transparently manipulative and rich with rage-bait that it's an insult to one's intelligence. Metafilter isn't what it used to be whether we care to admit it or not. RSS readers are mostly a thing of the past, and even paid RSS readers feel "cheap" because most article headlines now read like stale advertising pitches.
Rather than spending my time lamenting this, I'd like to see if there's a way I can shake things up by shifting or reframing how I search (and use) the internet.
I'm already reading more books and enjoying other analog pleasures - that's not my question. This is about finding creative ways to still enjoy the modern internet in spite of its many, many flaws.
For example, I only found out about neocities because I happened to be in a gaming Discord where someone mentioned it. As another example, my spouse recently made me aware of kagi. However, both examples are the result of pure chance/luck on my part, rather than strategy.
I'd love to hear any practical tips that folks might have for how I can try to make the internet work for me, rather than the other way around.
Best answer: I like Web Curios (weekly roundup). It led me to Taking an Internet Walk.
posted by MonkeyToes at 10:40 AM on November 25, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by MonkeyToes at 10:40 AM on November 25, 2023 [1 favorite]
Reframe: seek out people and communities that you disagree with but who are still trying to engage with each other in ways that go beyond "angry garbage".
If you want something concrete, try following some link trails on Substack.
posted by xxx9038709992203 at 11:35 AM on November 25, 2023
If you want something concrete, try following some link trails on Substack.
posted by xxx9038709992203 at 11:35 AM on November 25, 2023
Something fun I was pointed towards today:
https://lace-difficult-trombone.glitch.me/
posted by colourlesssleep at 12:39 PM on November 25, 2023
https://lace-difficult-trombone.glitch.me/
posted by colourlesssleep at 12:39 PM on November 25, 2023
The "old" web (the internet hasn't changed at all, imho it's always been broken) is still pretty much still there.
Ancient html only pages miraculously still resolve and we have just gotten better search engines (you need to learn how to search properly) to trawl through them.
So i would say the main issue is we have lost or simply never learned search skills.
Take a crash course from a qualified librarian.
And instead of passively waiting try to forumulate specific problems to solve.
Try less textual social media, e.g. podcasts. Again, do not start with Joe Rogan, do some active searching.
posted by KMH at 12:50 PM on November 25, 2023 [4 favorites]
Ancient html only pages miraculously still resolve and we have just gotten better search engines (you need to learn how to search properly) to trawl through them.
So i would say the main issue is we have lost or simply never learned search skills.
Take a crash course from a qualified librarian.
And instead of passively waiting try to forumulate specific problems to solve.
Try less textual social media, e.g. podcasts. Again, do not start with Joe Rogan, do some active searching.
posted by KMH at 12:50 PM on November 25, 2023 [4 favorites]
I don't know how much longer it'll last, but by far I get the most of that from Tumblr. I unfollow/block any angst and drama and my feed is almost entirely hilarious surrealist stunt posting.
posted by Rhedyn at 1:46 PM on November 25, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by Rhedyn at 1:46 PM on November 25, 2023 [5 favorites]
The following is a bunch of sites that I rotate among when hoping to stumble on interesting articles or new sites (sometimes the search feeds on itself and sometimes not):
Pinboard: popular bookmarks
Aeon Magazine
Hacker News
IEEE Spectrum
Quanta Magazine
Less Wrong
Caveat 1: you are not me and so these may not match your interests
Caveat 2: it's currently "Black Friday"-ish and so every site is skewed toward shopping or links for shopping.
Caveat 3: finding a site that doesn't think AI is the most important thing in the universe is currently a challenge
posted by forthright at 2:20 PM on November 25, 2023 [1 favorite]
Pinboard: popular bookmarks
Aeon Magazine
Hacker News
IEEE Spectrum
Quanta Magazine
Less Wrong
Caveat 1: you are not me and so these may not match your interests
Caveat 2: it's currently "Black Friday"-ish and so every site is skewed toward shopping or links for shopping.
Caveat 3: finding a site that doesn't think AI is the most important thing in the universe is currently a challenge
posted by forthright at 2:20 PM on November 25, 2023 [1 favorite]
You don't mention Instagram, but I've found it useful in curating a lot of the content I actually want to see. I recommend going to the search function and search key words like "artists" and then browse the pictures and click on some to see if you find a new artist or organization to follow. Then the algorithm of course will start to suggest similar accounts. You can get specific like artist (city you live in). This is also how I found my hairstylist and a nail technician. And many many DIY crafters and artists, etc. in my area.
I'm always wanting to leave social media but then I remember all the events, people, and things I've found through IG or even FB.
I block a lot and curate my feed as much as I can. You could even create a separate account.
posted by AnyUsernameWillDo at 4:05 PM on November 25, 2023
I'm always wanting to leave social media but then I remember all the events, people, and things I've found through IG or even FB.
I block a lot and curate my feed as much as I can. You could even create a separate account.
posted by AnyUsernameWillDo at 4:05 PM on November 25, 2023
Best answer: Well, later in the day after my answer above I found myself at Things You're Allowed To Do which has many interesting links. I got there from the Pinboard: Popular Links site in my answer above. Just FYI.
posted by forthright at 4:41 PM on November 25, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by forthright at 4:41 PM on November 25, 2023 [2 favorites]
Best answer: Most of us would probably agree that the internet now sucks
No? I think there's just a higher percentage of suckiness now, because there's more internet. Which is why it's harder to find the good stuff.
I still mourn old Twitter, which kept me connected to artists, thinkers, and other delightful weirdos
Mastodon is (for me) a nice place so there's good, interesting stuff there. I've barely used Bluesky and only opened Threads once, but there are lots of people and things on both. Some good bits of old Twitter have stopped entirely, while others are now spread among several places.
Meanwhile, Reddit's algorithm is so transparently manipulative and rich with rage-bait that it's an insult to one's intelligence.
I only follow a handful of subreddits but I don't find this at all. I assume there's an overall Reddit front page but it's never occurred to me to visit that. Curate your interests.
RSS readers are mostly a thing of the past, and even paid RSS readers feel "cheap" because most article headlines now read like stale advertising pitches.
Again, it sounds like you're reading the wrong things :) My feed reader is full of interesting humans with little that sounds like advertising. Maybe find some new blogs (sorry, plug for my own project).
As Monkey Toes said, Web Curios is gold.
I also subscribe to Garbage Day which I love. It covers the good and the bad, but even the bad stuff is interesting.
In fact, maybe you need to explore email newsletters more, because a bunch of people who might once have blogged now have newsletters. Some good ones I like:
All My Stars by Joanne McNeil
B3TA
Future Crunch
Griefbacon by Helena Fitzgerald (on hiatus)
Robin Sloan
Craig Mod's Ridgeline and Roden
Scope of Work
Things I Have Enjoyed & Things I Have Learnt
posted by fabius at 6:01 AM on November 26, 2023 [4 favorites]
No? I think there's just a higher percentage of suckiness now, because there's more internet. Which is why it's harder to find the good stuff.
I still mourn old Twitter, which kept me connected to artists, thinkers, and other delightful weirdos
Mastodon is (for me) a nice place so there's good, interesting stuff there. I've barely used Bluesky and only opened Threads once, but there are lots of people and things on both. Some good bits of old Twitter have stopped entirely, while others are now spread among several places.
Meanwhile, Reddit's algorithm is so transparently manipulative and rich with rage-bait that it's an insult to one's intelligence.
I only follow a handful of subreddits but I don't find this at all. I assume there's an overall Reddit front page but it's never occurred to me to visit that. Curate your interests.
RSS readers are mostly a thing of the past, and even paid RSS readers feel "cheap" because most article headlines now read like stale advertising pitches.
Again, it sounds like you're reading the wrong things :) My feed reader is full of interesting humans with little that sounds like advertising. Maybe find some new blogs (sorry, plug for my own project).
As Monkey Toes said, Web Curios is gold.
I also subscribe to Garbage Day which I love. It covers the good and the bad, but even the bad stuff is interesting.
In fact, maybe you need to explore email newsletters more, because a bunch of people who might once have blogged now have newsletters. Some good ones I like:
All My Stars by Joanne McNeil
B3TA
Future Crunch
Griefbacon by Helena Fitzgerald (on hiatus)
Robin Sloan
Craig Mod's Ridgeline and Roden
Scope of Work
Things I Have Enjoyed & Things I Have Learnt
posted by fabius at 6:01 AM on November 26, 2023 [4 favorites]
Best answer: You might try the Marginalia search engine:
"This is an independent DIY search engine tht focuses on non-commercial content, and attempts to show you sites you perhaps weren't aware of in favor of the sort of sites you knew existed ...
Where this search engine really shines is finding small, old, and
obscure web sites about some given topic ..."
posted by JonJacky at 10:38 AM on November 26, 2023
"This is an independent DIY search engine tht focuses on non-commercial content, and attempts to show you sites you perhaps weren't aware of in favor of the sort of sites you knew existed ...
Where this search engine really shines is finding small, old, and
obscure web sites about some given topic ..."
posted by JonJacky at 10:38 AM on November 26, 2023
Best answer: RSS readers are mostly a thing of the past, and even paid RSS readers feel "cheap" because most article headlines now read like stale advertising pitches.
Could you talk a little more about this, especially "mostly a thing of the past"? Maybe you mean "Far fewer people use them than did at peak usage" or maybe you mean "existing RSS aggregator/reader/app technology is obsolete, I use native apps on my phone/tablet and there is no up-to-date one" or maybe "the sites I want to keep up with do not emit RSS or Atom feeds and so RSS readers are no longer useful" or maybe something else? I personally use Dreamwidth as my feedreader and am pretty happy with it, and I believe I know people who like NewsBlur.
shifting or reframing how I search (and use) the internet
What devices do you use, mostly, to browse or read the Net? (Desktop/laptop, tablet, mobile phone, smartwatch, text-to-speech synthesizers into your headphones, other?) Depending on the kind of media you want, consider switching it up.
And what is your tolerance for skimming a lot of stuff that doesn't interest you? Could it be that your tolerance for that has gone down over time, so that even when you're in environments with the same proportion of interesting-to-not, you perceive it as more boring than you used to?
Also, are you interested in online spaces that have a lot of conversation (and do you want to participate in them)? Or do you find that tiresome, such that maybe you just want announcements and recommendations of artifacts (essays, music, videos, etc.) but not conversation about them?
How much tolerance do you have for sexuality in your media, especially transgressive sexuality? I think some of the most interesting indie art work and thinking being done right now is most discoverable through erotica, fanfiction, or similar fields. Clicking around tags and the "recently posted" areas of Dreamwidth, Tumblr, and Cohost may help you find some starting places.
both examples are the result of pure chance/luck on my part, rather than strategy.
Don't discount your own role in that! You did choose to be in that gaming Discord, and you did choose to get and stay married to your spouse! And part of why you have made those choices is that they make your life more interesting, that they bring new ideas into your life. So your strategy could include joining more such group chats, and going to online conferences and watching their past archives (such as !!Con and Roguelike Celebration).
posted by brainwane at 1:23 PM on November 26, 2023 [2 favorites]
Could you talk a little more about this, especially "mostly a thing of the past"? Maybe you mean "Far fewer people use them than did at peak usage" or maybe you mean "existing RSS aggregator/reader/app technology is obsolete, I use native apps on my phone/tablet and there is no up-to-date one" or maybe "the sites I want to keep up with do not emit RSS or Atom feeds and so RSS readers are no longer useful" or maybe something else? I personally use Dreamwidth as my feedreader and am pretty happy with it, and I believe I know people who like NewsBlur.
shifting or reframing how I search (and use) the internet
What devices do you use, mostly, to browse or read the Net? (Desktop/laptop, tablet, mobile phone, smartwatch, text-to-speech synthesizers into your headphones, other?) Depending on the kind of media you want, consider switching it up.
And what is your tolerance for skimming a lot of stuff that doesn't interest you? Could it be that your tolerance for that has gone down over time, so that even when you're in environments with the same proportion of interesting-to-not, you perceive it as more boring than you used to?
Also, are you interested in online spaces that have a lot of conversation (and do you want to participate in them)? Or do you find that tiresome, such that maybe you just want announcements and recommendations of artifacts (essays, music, videos, etc.) but not conversation about them?
How much tolerance do you have for sexuality in your media, especially transgressive sexuality? I think some of the most interesting indie art work and thinking being done right now is most discoverable through erotica, fanfiction, or similar fields. Clicking around tags and the "recently posted" areas of Dreamwidth, Tumblr, and Cohost may help you find some starting places.
both examples are the result of pure chance/luck on my part, rather than strategy.
Don't discount your own role in that! You did choose to be in that gaming Discord, and you did choose to get and stay married to your spouse! And part of why you have made those choices is that they make your life more interesting, that they bring new ideas into your life. So your strategy could include joining more such group chats, and going to online conferences and watching their past archives (such as !!Con and Roguelike Celebration).
posted by brainwane at 1:23 PM on November 26, 2023 [2 favorites]
Best answer: This post is what finally got me to pay my five dollars and join this site, after many years of intermittent lurking. I think about the same question often, and I don't have a simple answer, but I have found a lot of delight by following blogs I discovered through ooh.directory. That means using an RSS reader--I've been using The Old Reader now for longer than I ever used Google Reader--and subscribing to the feed of newly added blogs from the site. Anything that looks interesting is easy to copy-paste-follow. The effect is multiplicative: interesting writers put interesting links in their posts, and then I get to read those too.
The Old Reader does have social features within its interface, but I don't know a lot of other people who are members, so I don't use them much. But I do follow a couple strangers who share links there, and that's actually how I came across this question. (If you see this, The Old Reader user Merjin: hi and thanks!)
posted by brendn at 3:54 PM on November 27, 2023 [7 favorites]
The Old Reader does have social features within its interface, but I don't know a lot of other people who are members, so I don't use them much. But I do follow a couple strangers who share links there, and that's actually how I came across this question. (If you see this, The Old Reader user Merjin: hi and thanks!)
posted by brendn at 3:54 PM on November 27, 2023 [7 favorites]
When I started thinking more about the media I was consuming, I noticed that Reddit has an option under Settings>Preferences to turn off recommendations in your home feed. I did that and it made a HUGE difference.
I am absolutely brutal about unsubscribing from subreddits that make me feel worse than I did before I read them. There have been a few I mostly really enjoyed, but they had enough negativity that they weren't worth it. Just keep checking in with yourself about how things effect you and don't be afraid to cut the cord, there are so many other options out there.
posted by Eyelash at 1:29 PM on July 3 [2 favorites]
I am absolutely brutal about unsubscribing from subreddits that make me feel worse than I did before I read them. There have been a few I mostly really enjoyed, but they had enough negativity that they weren't worth it. Just keep checking in with yourself about how things effect you and don't be afraid to cut the cord, there are so many other options out there.
posted by Eyelash at 1:29 PM on July 3 [2 favorites]
You are not logged in, either login or create an account to post comments
It's a slower ramp-up than Twitter or the other algo-directed sites. You may be disappointed if you expect to be a consumer only: you have to interact.
posted by scruss at 10:24 AM on November 25, 2023 [2 favorites]