Weltschmerz, specifically my job
October 10, 2023 4:52 AM Subscribe
Long story short, I'm a frustrated creative type who busted my butt to get a stable career in IT and it's slowly killing me. Help.
At the risk of just giving my CV / resume spiel, I am a languages and arts enthusiast. My teachers assumed I would major in languages at university because that was my passion, but I followed the advice to "do something hard" and wound up with physics. Dodged the bullet of doing physics with philosophy at Oxford (dismally failed the interview because I had no idea what I let myself in for).
Graduated from a top science college nevertheless and immediately burned out in the real world. Suffered depression for about a decade before clawing my way up to a paying job in IT and now do tech writing / proposals.
I'm hanging on in there because it pays well and I have family now. But inside I am really suffering. I don't get to play music, I barely use my languages, and just doing "side projects" and hobbies doesn't quell the daily dose of ennui.
Huge regrets about past choices even though of course I din't have a clue and probably couldn't have done differently.
What the heck should / can I do? Anyone been through this kind of thing?
At the risk of just giving my CV / resume spiel, I am a languages and arts enthusiast. My teachers assumed I would major in languages at university because that was my passion, but I followed the advice to "do something hard" and wound up with physics. Dodged the bullet of doing physics with philosophy at Oxford (dismally failed the interview because I had no idea what I let myself in for).
Graduated from a top science college nevertheless and immediately burned out in the real world. Suffered depression for about a decade before clawing my way up to a paying job in IT and now do tech writing / proposals.
I'm hanging on in there because it pays well and I have family now. But inside I am really suffering. I don't get to play music, I barely use my languages, and just doing "side projects" and hobbies doesn't quell the daily dose of ennui.
Huge regrets about past choices even though of course I din't have a clue and probably couldn't have done differently.
What the heck should / can I do? Anyone been through this kind of thing?
Lately I have been rereading "What if You Could Do It All Over Again?". I don't know if it will fix the problem of burnout and regret, but I found it slightly comforting. Burnout and regret appear to be often linked.
I've been going to free community health with a graduate school therapist in training, and even that low grade weekly discussion has been helpful, but also my therapist says "Therapy often gets worse before it gets better."
posted by mecran01 at 7:00 AM on October 10, 2023 [3 favorites]
I've been going to free community health with a graduate school therapist in training, and even that low grade weekly discussion has been helpful, but also my therapist says "Therapy often gets worse before it gets better."
posted by mecran01 at 7:00 AM on October 10, 2023 [3 favorites]
suddenly painfully aware, every time I see a Metafilter link to professors talking about fascinating academic ideas, of all the other stuff I could have been doing with my time instead of making UIButtons align correctly.
I am going to spend over four hours today vetting courses and curriculum, in preparation for a three hour meeting on Thursday.
During the pandemic everyone in /r/professors was fleeing academia for the money and healthy environment of the loving corporate workforce. Then came the post-pandemic layoffs. The university is becoming increasingly corporatized. Our president is a former Microsoft executive. I guess I'm saying that the safe harbor we're looking for doesn't exist categorically, but may be unique to a specific workplace, academic or otherwise.
Also, that professor lecturing on literature is able to do so because their work is subsidized by underpaid adjunct instructors (who I manage, as part of my other administrative work).
posted by mecran01 at 7:04 AM on October 10, 2023 [13 favorites]
I am going to spend over four hours today vetting courses and curriculum, in preparation for a three hour meeting on Thursday.
During the pandemic everyone in /r/professors was fleeing academia for the money and healthy environment of the loving corporate workforce. Then came the post-pandemic layoffs. The university is becoming increasingly corporatized. Our president is a former Microsoft executive. I guess I'm saying that the safe harbor we're looking for doesn't exist categorically, but may be unique to a specific workplace, academic or otherwise.
Also, that professor lecturing on literature is able to do so because their work is subsidized by underpaid adjunct instructors (who I manage, as part of my other administrative work).
posted by mecran01 at 7:04 AM on October 10, 2023 [13 favorites]
Re-frame things. Realistically, the tradeoff is money vs. freedom. Set financial goals, increase savings and reduce expenses so you can have someone clean the house and care for the lawn while you play music. I know a bunch of programmers who play in bands and they have fun, a tight group of friends, etc.
Read about Financial Independence Retire Early (FIRE). It may not be for you, but having a decently funded retirement option can help you daydream and cope with the day to day ugh. Also, see a doctor, and a therapist. You sound depressed, and that can be helped.
posted by theora55 at 7:54 AM on October 10, 2023 [1 favorite]
Read about Financial Independence Retire Early (FIRE). It may not be for you, but having a decently funded retirement option can help you daydream and cope with the day to day ugh. Also, see a doctor, and a therapist. You sound depressed, and that can be helped.
posted by theora55 at 7:54 AM on October 10, 2023 [1 favorite]
Now, though, it's kids, kids, kids except for work hours on Slack all day with people I don't enjoy, doing tech stuff. Little time for side projects. Crushing.
Just to address this, because I think it’s key…
This stage of parenting does change. I would start by addressing this. In my family, although it was hard, my spouse and I committed to one night off each during the week (the other parent did simple meal and bedtime) for hobby time, go have a beer time, join a conversation group in a language, whatever time. This was after the intense first year of baby time.
If you can afford babysitting or have family close by, do that Sunday afternoon a month to feed your own soul too.
Second, I fed my soul during those years by taking my kids to every exhibit at the art gallery and museum, bribed with treats, and church concerts and outdoor concerts and festivals and kids Saturdays at the symphony. Family ceramic nights.
For you maybe that’s teaching your kids some languages, and hanging out with families fluent in those languages.
Was it the same for me as an adult? No. We had to leave some exhibits after 20 minutes (get a membership so you can go back), we had to leave concerts, I wanted to throttle my spouse more than once (however, we sometimes had one parent playing in the atrium and one inside.) But it was enough.
Once they got older, I got time back. It will happen.
Also, working with kids is different even in the “right” job. Your reserves are different. So it may be the actual work, or it may just be burnout. The reason I say address it at the home end is that a stable job during the daycare years is gold.
Warning: I now have a son in post-secondary art school and one wanting to become a music teacher “or an NBA team manager” so just remember there can be long-term effects.
posted by warriorqueen at 8:19 AM on October 10, 2023 [8 favorites]
Just to address this, because I think it’s key…
This stage of parenting does change. I would start by addressing this. In my family, although it was hard, my spouse and I committed to one night off each during the week (the other parent did simple meal and bedtime) for hobby time, go have a beer time, join a conversation group in a language, whatever time. This was after the intense first year of baby time.
If you can afford babysitting or have family close by, do that Sunday afternoon a month to feed your own soul too.
Second, I fed my soul during those years by taking my kids to every exhibit at the art gallery and museum, bribed with treats, and church concerts and outdoor concerts and festivals and kids Saturdays at the symphony. Family ceramic nights.
For you maybe that’s teaching your kids some languages, and hanging out with families fluent in those languages.
Was it the same for me as an adult? No. We had to leave some exhibits after 20 minutes (get a membership so you can go back), we had to leave concerts, I wanted to throttle my spouse more than once (however, we sometimes had one parent playing in the atrium and one inside.) But it was enough.
Once they got older, I got time back. It will happen.
Also, working with kids is different even in the “right” job. Your reserves are different. So it may be the actual work, or it may just be burnout. The reason I say address it at the home end is that a stable job during the daycare years is gold.
Warning: I now have a son in post-secondary art school and one wanting to become a music teacher “or an NBA team manager” so just remember there can be long-term effects.
posted by warriorqueen at 8:19 AM on October 10, 2023 [8 favorites]
Seeing some of the answers here and have to point out that my man/woman/person isn't doing the coding--they're doing the writing. In my experience, and I could be talking over OP's experience, there are lots of programmers, they have a lot in common work wise which makes it easy to bond and create friendships, and they can work together to solve problems so even if they're not best buds there's some satisfaction involved. The person writing it up works by themselves and whatever they do disappears into the void unless there's a problem. It's pretty lonely, and I imagine OP is missing adult conversation and would be even if they didn't have kids.
I do this job and to be frank 95 percent of the time it's boring as fuck and puts me in a mood where I don't have much to give to the activities and people I actually like. I also want to know if there's a way out because y'all are ok, but I'd hate to think that the absolute highlight of my entire work life is giving dubious advice on message boards.
posted by kingdead at 9:27 AM on October 10, 2023 [3 favorites]
I do this job and to be frank 95 percent of the time it's boring as fuck and puts me in a mood where I don't have much to give to the activities and people I actually like. I also want to know if there's a way out because y'all are ok, but I'd hate to think that the absolute highlight of my entire work life is giving dubious advice on message boards.
posted by kingdead at 9:27 AM on October 10, 2023 [3 favorites]
I was there. I worked up until I found myself a job that allowed me the headspace to feed my soul outside of work by being in two bands, creating terrible projection installations and doing a part-time Masters in a subject that will never lead to full-time employment that meets my current salary requirements. Am now stressed in a million other ways, but maybe it's preferable, because it feels like other things will be possible down the line rather than stuck in perpetual dissatisfaction.
posted by freya_lamb at 9:51 AM on October 10, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by freya_lamb at 9:51 AM on October 10, 2023 [1 favorite]
I’m a creative type who works for corporations. I’m grateful for the benefits and the pay, but now and then I read about the accomplishments of people who took other paths and I have some feelings.
I do think that academia would have been very frustrating for me. I love ideas, research and learning. I hate the political maneuvering that sounds necessary for survival at university. A friend of mine recently got tenure, but it was years of anxiety before that and now she’s kind of stuck at this one college for the rest of her working life, in a part of the country that’s not ideal.
Right now I’m trying to figure out what would make me happy, or at least more contented, and then I’ll see if I can find a path toward that thing. I might wind up having a second career as an artist after retirement, or working within the next few years in a less evil setting for possibly a bit less pay.
Also, if you’re working for or with shitty people - just changing jobs (to a healthier environment) could reduce your unhappiness. Maybe a job where your language skills could be an assets.
posted by bunderful at 10:18 AM on October 10, 2023 [4 favorites]
I do think that academia would have been very frustrating for me. I love ideas, research and learning. I hate the political maneuvering that sounds necessary for survival at university. A friend of mine recently got tenure, but it was years of anxiety before that and now she’s kind of stuck at this one college for the rest of her working life, in a part of the country that’s not ideal.
Right now I’m trying to figure out what would make me happy, or at least more contented, and then I’ll see if I can find a path toward that thing. I might wind up having a second career as an artist after retirement, or working within the next few years in a less evil setting for possibly a bit less pay.
Also, if you’re working for or with shitty people - just changing jobs (to a healthier environment) could reduce your unhappiness. Maybe a job where your language skills could be an assets.
posted by bunderful at 10:18 AM on October 10, 2023 [4 favorites]
"side projects" and hobbies
Maybe just do _one_ additional avocational project so you can make it true.
posted by amtho at 10:37 AM on October 10, 2023
Maybe just do _one_ additional avocational project so you can make it true.
posted by amtho at 10:37 AM on October 10, 2023
First, be kind to yourself. The best way to be kind to yourself is to lower your expectations and give yourself a break.
I struggle with these feelings often. The only way I have ever overcome them is to schedule regular time, either every day or every week, to take myself on an "artist's date." Choose an activity that you're either curious about or that sounds fun. Ideally, it should also be easy and something that you don't have to commit to for more than ten minutes at a time, so that it doesn't become something you view as a burden or obligation. It could be anything from taking a walk at your favorite park or museum, to watching an artsy short film, to writing a haiku. Maybe even just sitting on a bench and people watching, or blowing bubbles.
Use the artist's date as a date with yourself, where you can reconnect with your sense of wonder. It should be time just for "you." In my personal experience, that personal time spent in genuine wonder is from where all my personal creativity and motivation flows. YMMV, but it's so low stakes that it may be worth trying out.
posted by nightrecordings at 11:19 AM on October 10, 2023 [1 favorite]
I struggle with these feelings often. The only way I have ever overcome them is to schedule regular time, either every day or every week, to take myself on an "artist's date." Choose an activity that you're either curious about or that sounds fun. Ideally, it should also be easy and something that you don't have to commit to for more than ten minutes at a time, so that it doesn't become something you view as a burden or obligation. It could be anything from taking a walk at your favorite park or museum, to watching an artsy short film, to writing a haiku. Maybe even just sitting on a bench and people watching, or blowing bubbles.
Use the artist's date as a date with yourself, where you can reconnect with your sense of wonder. It should be time just for "you." In my personal experience, that personal time spent in genuine wonder is from where all my personal creativity and motivation flows. YMMV, but it's so low stakes that it may be worth trying out.
posted by nightrecordings at 11:19 AM on October 10, 2023 [1 favorite]
Best answer: I don't have kids but I am 10+ years into balancing a creative career with unfulfilling job in tech. I also am really into language stuff like you!
Here is my general mindset:
- Make work take up as little of your mental / emotional bandwidth as possible. Stay at one job for a while so you can get to that coasting stage, reeeeally 9-5 it or even less (at this point I basically never work past 3pm). You can often get away with getting the same work done in 4-5 hours as 8, so just do that. Be efficient. Don't get involved in office politics, get in and get out.
- Set up creative work that has hard, real deadlines. In music (my creative career) for me this means gigs, album deadlines, throwing events that have a calendar date and have to be successful. This creates the urgency needed to do the thing. (Maybe this one is not feasible or could be too overwhelming with young kids, but eventually it should be doable). If these projects somehow involve other people (e.g. doing a remix for someone vs an original track) this can be additionally motivating.
- For foreign language acquisition (in my case), set up habits where this happens basically automatically -- doing 15 mins of study apps first thing in the morning, weekly lessons with my teacher on Skype, having a TV show going in the target language, regular visits to places where immersion happens, etc.
- You're obviously someone who also enjoys learning, so make sure you have 1-2 hobbies you are bad/novice at. Once you get too far into anything (creative work, a certain language, your career) the effort it takes to improve and get to the next level becomes massive and more strategic. Have something newer going on so you can soak in the quick wins of early stage learning.
- You still need down time / veg out time - don't beat yourself up for not getting to your creative work when a million other things are demanding your attention. Everyone needs rest and recharge.
- One potential mindset shift -- even though you had to work very hard to build the career you now have, that doesn't mean you have to put the same level of attention or care into it going forward. Take it for granted a bit, you've earned it! Be glad you don't have to go through all of that again and put your attention elsewhere.
posted by internet of pillows at 11:54 AM on October 10, 2023 [13 favorites]
Here is my general mindset:
- Make work take up as little of your mental / emotional bandwidth as possible. Stay at one job for a while so you can get to that coasting stage, reeeeally 9-5 it or even less (at this point I basically never work past 3pm). You can often get away with getting the same work done in 4-5 hours as 8, so just do that. Be efficient. Don't get involved in office politics, get in and get out.
- Set up creative work that has hard, real deadlines. In music (my creative career) for me this means gigs, album deadlines, throwing events that have a calendar date and have to be successful. This creates the urgency needed to do the thing. (Maybe this one is not feasible or could be too overwhelming with young kids, but eventually it should be doable). If these projects somehow involve other people (e.g. doing a remix for someone vs an original track) this can be additionally motivating.
- For foreign language acquisition (in my case), set up habits where this happens basically automatically -- doing 15 mins of study apps first thing in the morning, weekly lessons with my teacher on Skype, having a TV show going in the target language, regular visits to places where immersion happens, etc.
- You're obviously someone who also enjoys learning, so make sure you have 1-2 hobbies you are bad/novice at. Once you get too far into anything (creative work, a certain language, your career) the effort it takes to improve and get to the next level becomes massive and more strategic. Have something newer going on so you can soak in the quick wins of early stage learning.
- You still need down time / veg out time - don't beat yourself up for not getting to your creative work when a million other things are demanding your attention. Everyone needs rest and recharge.
- One potential mindset shift -- even though you had to work very hard to build the career you now have, that doesn't mean you have to put the same level of attention or care into it going forward. Take it for granted a bit, you've earned it! Be glad you don't have to go through all of that again and put your attention elsewhere.
posted by internet of pillows at 11:54 AM on October 10, 2023 [13 favorites]
but I'd hate to think that the absolute highlight of my entire work life is giving dubious advice on message boards.
Oh, it's the highlight of mine. It sure beats "I didn't get my important document!" which is all my life boils down to, mail fail.
Honestly, I'm not sure if a lot of KMH's issue is just not having free time outside of work due to kids. Like I am really hating that my entire worth is doing stuff that is boring but practical, but at the same time I like not getting laid off and having regular pay and health insurance, and doing something I actually like/love doesn't come with that. But also, I don't do overtime and once it's 5 p.m. I can do what I like projects-wise because I am alone. How old are the kids, because at a certain point you do get some time back, from what the parents tell me.
posted by jenfullmoon at 1:07 PM on October 10, 2023 [1 favorite]
Oh, it's the highlight of mine. It sure beats "I didn't get my important document!" which is all my life boils down to, mail fail.
Honestly, I'm not sure if a lot of KMH's issue is just not having free time outside of work due to kids. Like I am really hating that my entire worth is doing stuff that is boring but practical, but at the same time I like not getting laid off and having regular pay and health insurance, and doing something I actually like/love doesn't come with that. But also, I don't do overtime and once it's 5 p.m. I can do what I like projects-wise because I am alone. How old are the kids, because at a certain point you do get some time back, from what the parents tell me.
posted by jenfullmoon at 1:07 PM on October 10, 2023 [1 favorite]
I am the same situation (as are many in tech - it pays the bills!) and depending how much vacation time you get, can you plan mini vacations around your hobbies? Like if your languages are geographically close by, can you duck out for 3-4 days by yourself (lean on daycare / babysitting / extended family to support your spouse) and get a mini-immersion? Or take a two day online course? I’ve found connecting with people online who share my passion a helpful accountability-buddy. Or put yourself in situations where you owe some music - play for your kids school event? Play a local coffee shop for a few comp lattes? Imperfect but real world actions really get that flow going. And give you something to look forward to.
posted by St. Peepsburg at 2:39 PM on October 10, 2023
posted by St. Peepsburg at 2:39 PM on October 10, 2023
One thing that seems really cool to me about tech skills is that they are in demand across so many different organizations.
I work at an academic science center and we have tech folks who not only do IT stuff but who also get to do a lot of collaboration and work with scientists working on cool stuff.
It sounds like one ideal gig to look out for could be working in IT at an organization that is more in line with your interests so you could get the benefits of stability while working on things you’re more excited about.
posted by forkisbetter at 5:40 PM on October 10, 2023 [4 favorites]
I work at an academic science center and we have tech folks who not only do IT stuff but who also get to do a lot of collaboration and work with scientists working on cool stuff.
It sounds like one ideal gig to look out for could be working in IT at an organization that is more in line with your interests so you could get the benefits of stability while working on things you’re more excited about.
posted by forkisbetter at 5:40 PM on October 10, 2023 [4 favorites]
I worked very hard to get to a career in an advertising, but left after about six years as an AD because I was on the verge of burning out and I was starting to hate the work. I didn't want to end up hating the work, because to some extent it still is what I'm best in, but the situation at the small firm was only getting worse (cutting staff, which ended up with me having to do one and half person's work) and I was in a similar situation to you: I wanted to work on my own creative stuff and I was having trouble finding time and energy to do it.
So I just quit when I was about 30, which was 10 years ago. I had a little money saved up and my union's unemployment benefits in Finland allowed me a good enough life moneywise for the first two or so years. After that I was back to just general unemployment benefits, but I NEVER felt sorry that I stopped working when I did. I went through several shitty years trying to find the next job, but nowadays I'm quite happy being unemployed 70% the time and doing freelance work when it comes my way. I'm so happy to be able to sleep late and work on my art and writing and myself and spend time with my friends instead of working 9-to-5. Also these 10 years or so I've lived alone single most of the time so any extra money I get working I can put towards my hobby goals without needing to prioritize. I've also found that I'm not so focused on money and external validation anymore and am in general very much a happier person.
posted by fridgebuzz at 3:51 AM on October 12, 2023 [1 favorite]
So I just quit when I was about 30, which was 10 years ago. I had a little money saved up and my union's unemployment benefits in Finland allowed me a good enough life moneywise for the first two or so years. After that I was back to just general unemployment benefits, but I NEVER felt sorry that I stopped working when I did. I went through several shitty years trying to find the next job, but nowadays I'm quite happy being unemployed 70% the time and doing freelance work when it comes my way. I'm so happy to be able to sleep late and work on my art and writing and myself and spend time with my friends instead of working 9-to-5. Also these 10 years or so I've lived alone single most of the time so any extra money I get working I can put towards my hobby goals without needing to prioritize. I've also found that I'm not so focused on money and external validation anymore and am in general very much a happier person.
posted by fridgebuzz at 3:51 AM on October 12, 2023 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: SO many good answers!
I am coming back to this to digest.
Thanks all! Feel free to MeMail me if yoy like!
posted by KMH at 10:32 AM on October 18, 2023
I am coming back to this to digest.
Thanks all! Feel free to MeMail me if yoy like!
posted by KMH at 10:32 AM on October 18, 2023
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When you say family, I wonder if it's like how the arrival of kids, in my case, made work feel more painful. Before, there was time to do something all day I felt lukewarm about, then use my free time for human and rewarding activities. Now, though, it's kids, kids, kids except for work hours on Slack all day with people I don't enjoy, doing tech stuff. Little time for side projects. Crushing.
On top of that, I don't know about you, but feel like tech has changed so much in the last decade in terms of inspiration value, that if you were doing tech in 2013 you might get the sense from our culture that you had enlisted in a shining project to build an amazing utopian future. But if you're in it now in the era of Elon Musk and Surveillance Capitalism and NFT ripoffs and your gym entry system requiring you to install a crappy React Native barcode app, how much harder is it to believe in our work making the world better?
Considered going back to school? I want to. MeMail me if you want to chat...
posted by earthstarvoyager at 6:58 AM on October 10, 2023 [3 favorites]