Naming your child after a living relative with cerebral palsy
September 19, 2023 7:44 AM Subscribe
I recently recalled to my friend that my first name was chosen by one or both of my parents because of a close cousin with cerebral palsy. At the time of my birth, that cousin was still living and was around 10 years old. Our two families were not all that close and saw each other maybe once a year. My friend was horrified at the idea and thought it was awful thing to do to both children. TBH, Id never given it thought as an adult and I just want a second opinion.
What do you think? Is this weird? I can maybe see me being named after this cousin had already passed but isnt it strange to give that honor while the namesake is both alive and still a child themselves? Does it strike you as bizarre or cruel?
Assuming that "that family member has cerebral palsy" is not the only reason for naming someone after them, it strikes me as totally fine, but I think it's going to depend deeply on the specific individual beliefs and cultural traditions of the specific families.
If "they have CP" was a significant reason then I'd want to know more about why that was relevant .... what was the specific reasoning?
posted by brainwane at 7:51 AM on September 19, 2023 [1 favorite]
If "they have CP" was a significant reason then I'd want to know more about why that was relevant .... what was the specific reasoning?
posted by brainwane at 7:51 AM on September 19, 2023 [1 favorite]
I think it's culturally dependent. For an Ashkenazi Jewish family this would be bizarre and awful, as you only name after relatives when the relatives are deceased.
But for a family without pre-established norms around this, I don't see how it's offensive to name a kid after an honored relative.
posted by fingersandtoes at 8:02 AM on September 19, 2023 [12 favorites]
But for a family without pre-established norms around this, I don't see how it's offensive to name a kid after an honored relative.
posted by fingersandtoes at 8:02 AM on September 19, 2023 [12 favorites]
Different families have different naming norms. In some, it would be nearly unthinkable to name somone after a living relative of any age. In my own family, it would be proper to name a child after a living relative but, weirdly, never actually call the child by his or her actual name. When you put us all together, there will be four or five of us who have the same legal first name, but only one of us will actually go by that name. Like, only one person actually called John but several others whose legal first names are John but one is Bubba and the other is Tiny and the next one has been called Steve his whole life long. However, the catch is that the relative after whom we are all named must be of the previous generation. All of this is a long-winded way of saying that it is going to depend heavily on the naming norms of the family in question. In my own family, it might be acceptable, but you'd get side-eyed forever and nobody would ever actually use that name for the newly named child.
posted by pleasant_confusion at 8:04 AM on September 19, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by pleasant_confusion at 8:04 AM on September 19, 2023 [4 favorites]
I think the only opinions that matter are those of parents of the cousin, your parents, and you.
It seems like it's never been an issue for you until now. I'm assuming your parents are fine with it because they did it, and I'll do them the courtesy of assuming that they talked to the sibling/parents of the cousin and didn't name you against their wishes.
TLDR: nothing to see here, this is fine, carry on.
posted by SaltySalticid at 8:05 AM on September 19, 2023 [9 favorites]
It seems like it's never been an issue for you until now. I'm assuming your parents are fine with it because they did it, and I'll do them the courtesy of assuming that they talked to the sibling/parents of the cousin and didn't name you against their wishes.
TLDR: nothing to see here, this is fine, carry on.
posted by SaltySalticid at 8:05 AM on September 19, 2023 [9 favorites]
Barring some culturally specific reason why this Isn't Done, or some odd reason around the disability itself, I can't see any particular issue with it. Gets awkward to have multiple people in the same generation with the same name but also incredibly common, usually because they're all named in honor of some other person from another generation. Everyone gets or chooses nicknames and it all sorts itself out.
posted by Stacey at 8:10 AM on September 19, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by Stacey at 8:10 AM on September 19, 2023 [1 favorite]
Is it odd to give a child the same name as a 1st cousin who already has that name? Maybe a little, though if both sets of parents really liked the name, these things happen; and it probably depends partly on how close the two families are, how often they see each other.
The fact that you mention them having CP is the more hard-to-parse twist, because it depends on why that was thought to be relevant. And the fact that you say they were named "after" them, rather than just happening to have the same name.
I feel like your friend was perhaps seeing an implication there that your cousin was not expected to live much longer, so that naming another child after them was somehow foreshadowing their passing, setting up an assurance that their name would 'live on' - that's maybe why they found it odd?
But honestly nobody should really have an opinion on these things except the family involved. If it made everyone involved happy, it wasn't weird, and everyone else, who has no idea how it feels to be in that situation, should butt out.
I have a friend whose brother has severe learning disabilities and she named her son after him, on the grounds that he'll never have kids of his own and she thought it would give him a special connection with his nephew. Always struck me as a lovely thing to do.
posted by penguin pie at 8:12 AM on September 19, 2023 [12 favorites]
The fact that you mention them having CP is the more hard-to-parse twist, because it depends on why that was thought to be relevant. And the fact that you say they were named "after" them, rather than just happening to have the same name.
I feel like your friend was perhaps seeing an implication there that your cousin was not expected to live much longer, so that naming another child after them was somehow foreshadowing their passing, setting up an assurance that their name would 'live on' - that's maybe why they found it odd?
But honestly nobody should really have an opinion on these things except the family involved. If it made everyone involved happy, it wasn't weird, and everyone else, who has no idea how it feels to be in that situation, should butt out.
I have a friend whose brother has severe learning disabilities and she named her son after him, on the grounds that he'll never have kids of his own and she thought it would give him a special connection with his nephew. Always struck me as a lovely thing to do.
posted by penguin pie at 8:12 AM on September 19, 2023 [12 favorites]
People are also really good at finding meaning and purpose in past actions, especially in times of current stress.
Being named after your cousin took on much more significance after they presumably passed at a young age. It's entirely possible that there were different reasons your parents chose your name that were unrelated to your cousin at first but it's now much more important for you to have been named after your cousin for the sake of their memory.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 8:15 AM on September 19, 2023 [3 favorites]
Being named after your cousin took on much more significance after they presumably passed at a young age. It's entirely possible that there were different reasons your parents chose your name that were unrelated to your cousin at first but it's now much more important for you to have been named after your cousin for the sake of their memory.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 8:15 AM on September 19, 2023 [3 favorites]
Your parent(s) or someone in your cousin's family perhaps could give you some context. A tradition in my family is that nobody is truly dead until everyone who knew them has died.
Family issues are often opaque to others.
posted by mule98J at 8:21 AM on September 19, 2023
Family issues are often opaque to others.
posted by mule98J at 8:21 AM on September 19, 2023
I mean, sometimes people name children after themselves (John Smith Sr. is father of John Smith Jr., for instance). I also have a cousin who was named after our then-living Grandmother. It's not weird at all.
I would guess that your friend either is Eastern-European Jewish, where there is a small taboo against naming children after LIVING relatives, or your friend has some kind of weird hangup about your namesake's CP. I wouldn't sweat it.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:24 AM on September 19, 2023 [2 favorites]
I would guess that your friend either is Eastern-European Jewish, where there is a small taboo against naming children after LIVING relatives, or your friend has some kind of weird hangup about your namesake's CP. I wouldn't sweat it.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:24 AM on September 19, 2023 [2 favorites]
Also - to other commenters, I think the "close cousin" relationship was to one of the OP's parents, not to OP themselves. I think the OP's relationship to their namesake was a first-cousin-once-removed kind of thing.
And anyway - I mean, if we live in a society where we have John Sr.'s running around with their sons John Jr. , presumably that's a MUCH more intimate familial relationship anyway and no one gives THAT a second thought.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:26 AM on September 19, 2023
And anyway - I mean, if we live in a society where we have John Sr.'s running around with their sons John Jr. , presumably that's a MUCH more intimate familial relationship anyway and no one gives THAT a second thought.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:26 AM on September 19, 2023
Not weird.
In my family the second (trad. the guys) kid gets variations of the same name, usually as their second name. The last family reunion there was over thirty families and most have kept this, as I have in my own house. There was enough of these folks to field a baseball team.
My kid doesn't give it a second though - and because I emigrated has never gotten to interact with any of these folks. So I can't say what actual bearing it might have on him, but I did it because it ties him, and me, closer to my family.
posted by zenon at 8:31 AM on September 19, 2023 [1 favorite]
In my family the second (trad. the guys) kid gets variations of the same name, usually as their second name. The last family reunion there was over thirty families and most have kept this, as I have in my own house. There was enough of these folks to field a baseball team.
My kid doesn't give it a second though - and because I emigrated has never gotten to interact with any of these folks. So I can't say what actual bearing it might have on him, but I did it because it ties him, and me, closer to my family.
posted by zenon at 8:31 AM on September 19, 2023 [1 favorite]
Sans context, it is a bit strange, as in uncommon. I'd be interested in the backstory but wouldn't be horrified at all.
I imagine there are situations in which this would be cruel. Maybe if the naming was used as a power play against your cousin's parents or if your parents were constantly comparing you with your cousin, something like that. There'd have to be other stuff going on for it to be cruel imo.
posted by Baethan at 8:37 AM on September 19, 2023
I imagine there are situations in which this would be cruel. Maybe if the naming was used as a power play against your cousin's parents or if your parents were constantly comparing you with your cousin, something like that. There'd have to be other stuff going on for it to be cruel imo.
posted by Baethan at 8:37 AM on September 19, 2023
My cousin named his baby the exact same name as my (then-12-year-old) son. Including the middle name that my grandpa, my dad, me, and my son share (and he and his dad do not share). So same first, middle, and last names. He didn't reach out prior, and has never addressed the decision with us.
It did not make us mad or really bother us, but we sure thought it was weird, and we often make jokes about the baby stealing his identity.
posted by joelhunt at 8:37 AM on September 19, 2023 [1 favorite]
It did not make us mad or really bother us, but we sure thought it was weird, and we often make jokes about the baby stealing his identity.
posted by joelhunt at 8:37 AM on September 19, 2023 [1 favorite]
I was named after an aunt who was a healthy teenager at the time. Different families name in different ways, and as long as everybody in your family was happy about it, (in this case, especially the older cousin) it’s fine.
posted by tchemgrrl at 8:38 AM on September 19, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by tchemgrrl at 8:38 AM on September 19, 2023 [2 favorites]
Being named after your cousin took on much more significance after they presumably passed at a young age. It's entirely possible that there were different reasons your parents chose your name that were unrelated to your cousin at first but it's now much more important for you to have been named after your cousin for the sake of their memory.
To follow up on this thought, your own knowledge of the motives behind the choice of your name is second-hand, close to third-hand if you heard this story as a child. At that distance, narratives tend to get shaped by the selectiveness and distortions of memory. You may not have the full story.
posted by praemunire at 8:40 AM on September 19, 2023 [2 favorites]
To follow up on this thought, your own knowledge of the motives behind the choice of your name is second-hand, close to third-hand if you heard this story as a child. At that distance, narratives tend to get shaped by the selectiveness and distortions of memory. You may not have the full story.
posted by praemunire at 8:40 AM on September 19, 2023 [2 favorites]
Also - to other commenters, I think the "close cousin" relationship was to one of the OP's parents, not to OP themselves. I think the OP's relationship to their namesake was a first-cousin-once-removed kind of thing.
I don't see any suggestion that that's the case. It just refers to 'a close cousin', a 10 year age difference and then the possibility of it being 'an awful thing to do to both children' which to me reads as if the name-sharing cousins are of the same generation. I read them as being of the same generation and first cousins to one another, though it's a little ambiguous. Though as we both agree, ultimately irrelevant as it's nobody's business but the family's!
posted by penguin pie at 8:41 AM on September 19, 2023 [1 favorite]
I don't see any suggestion that that's the case. It just refers to 'a close cousin', a 10 year age difference and then the possibility of it being 'an awful thing to do to both children' which to me reads as if the name-sharing cousins are of the same generation. I read them as being of the same generation and first cousins to one another, though it's a little ambiguous. Though as we both agree, ultimately irrelevant as it's nobody's business but the family's!
posted by penguin pie at 8:41 AM on September 19, 2023 [1 favorite]
Two of my mom's sisters gave their sons the same name and they were born within months of each other and saw each other quite regularly. So giving a kid the same would normally be ok to me but with the CP angle it would really depend on your parents' motivation here.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 8:47 AM on September 19, 2023
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 8:47 AM on September 19, 2023
It would be weird if they didn't consult with the other family first, but yeah, presuming your parent's sibling was fine with it, it's fine. Certainly not cruel.
posted by coffeecat at 9:04 AM on September 19, 2023
posted by coffeecat at 9:04 AM on September 19, 2023
I think the OP's relationship to their namesake was a first-cousin-once-removed kind of thing.
This seems unlikely as it sounds like they’re in the same generation, fwiw.
I would be instinctively horrified by this because, as mentioned above, I’m Jewish, but I wouldn’t mention that to you because you’re not! I do think it’s unusual to be named after a relative in your own generation, which leaves room for interpretations like the one I think your friend is imposing (that you were given your cousin’s name in some kind of premature memorial effort) but this is not the only interpretation and I don’t think even the obvious interpretation if you come from a culture where it’s okay to have living namesakes. As someone from a culture where it isn’t, again, I do get leaping to that conclusion, but that is a matter of cultural context and can’t be broadly applied!
posted by babelfish at 9:11 AM on September 19, 2023
This seems unlikely as it sounds like they’re in the same generation, fwiw.
I would be instinctively horrified by this because, as mentioned above, I’m Jewish, but I wouldn’t mention that to you because you’re not! I do think it’s unusual to be named after a relative in your own generation, which leaves room for interpretations like the one I think your friend is imposing (that you were given your cousin’s name in some kind of premature memorial effort) but this is not the only interpretation and I don’t think even the obvious interpretation if you come from a culture where it’s okay to have living namesakes. As someone from a culture where it isn’t, again, I do get leaping to that conclusion, but that is a matter of cultural context and can’t be broadly applied!
posted by babelfish at 9:11 AM on September 19, 2023
Unless the people who named you are narcissistic and just wanted attention (seems unlikely), I agree that your naming was probably done out of love. Perhaps that choice was misguided by a lack of understanding about CP at that time, but it hardly matters now, does it?
posted by Doleful Creature at 9:14 AM on September 19, 2023
posted by Doleful Creature at 9:14 AM on September 19, 2023
There are no real rules with naming conventions. Every family can get as weird as they want to with them.
Until a certain Disney princess movie ruined it by using it as the name of the antagonist, my mother's family had two or more women with the same first name going back a couple hundred years. My sister shares a name with her aunt, and if she was born a bit earlier she would have also shared with her great-grandmother.
In that same family every first born male is name after his father. My father broke the tradition because there were old grown men that were still called something "Little Baby Clarencey" because their father was "Little Clarencey", his father was "Clarencey", but that guy's father got to be just "Clarence". My dad already had a "kiddie" name in his 30's, he didn't' want me to have a lifetime of something slight worse.
Hell, a good friend of mine has the legal first name of "William", just like every other male relative in his family going back 5 generations. No one uses it in their life, obviously, but family reunions had like 30 dudes named William hanging out together.
posted by Back At It Again At Krispy Kreme at 9:26 AM on September 19, 2023 [3 favorites]
Until a certain Disney princess movie ruined it by using it as the name of the antagonist, my mother's family had two or more women with the same first name going back a couple hundred years. My sister shares a name with her aunt, and if she was born a bit earlier she would have also shared with her great-grandmother.
In that same family every first born male is name after his father. My father broke the tradition because there were old grown men that were still called something "Little Baby Clarencey" because their father was "Little Clarencey", his father was "Clarencey", but that guy's father got to be just "Clarence". My dad already had a "kiddie" name in his 30's, he didn't' want me to have a lifetime of something slight worse.
Hell, a good friend of mine has the legal first name of "William", just like every other male relative in his family going back 5 generations. No one uses it in their life, obviously, but family reunions had like 30 dudes named William hanging out together.
posted by Back At It Again At Krispy Kreme at 9:26 AM on September 19, 2023 [3 favorites]
Hahahah, this sounds like all the guys in my gene pool being named Robert or Ronald, until my cousins stopped doing that.
Beyond that, eh....I think it's weird to name someone after someone who's close enough to your age to confuse people, but people can do what they want namewise. Not sure what CP has to do with any of it here.
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:32 AM on September 19, 2023 [1 favorite]
Beyond that, eh....I think it's weird to name someone after someone who's close enough to your age to confuse people, but people can do what they want namewise. Not sure what CP has to do with any of it here.
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:32 AM on September 19, 2023 [1 favorite]
Yeah. This doesn't strike me as particularly weird. We had a bit of a family scuffle back in the 70s/80s because too many people were naming their daughters after my (then still living) great-grandmother, Rebekah, and there were, like, two or three Beckys running around, and parents were getting weird about who got to have the most interesting/most original Rebekah, so the name was put on hiatus for a while, and then my great-grandmother died, and the name went out of fashion and after Beyonce and social media, I don't think we'll have any more for a while.
But I come from people who tend to recycle the same names. There's always 3-5 Marys running around. Typically they go by their middle names (or nicknames for their middle names if the middle name is also shared, or occasionally Molly). You can have a Tom and Tommy and a Thomas at the same Thanksgiving table and they may not all be father son relationships.
posted by thivaia at 9:40 AM on September 19, 2023
But I come from people who tend to recycle the same names. There's always 3-5 Marys running around. Typically they go by their middle names (or nicknames for their middle names if the middle name is also shared, or occasionally Molly). You can have a Tom and Tommy and a Thomas at the same Thanksgiving table and they may not all be father son relationships.
posted by thivaia at 9:40 AM on September 19, 2023
This is super culturally specific, and you don't say what your culture is.
E.g., among coast Salish peoples, the name taboo is so strong that living people are expected to change their names if someone with the same name dies, even a non relative.
OTOH, many Euro cultures may have many people with the same name even in the immediate family, both dead and living.
The simplest explanation is that your friend and family have different cultural takes on this (which can happen even within the same large ethnicity); neither is correct or incorrect, unless you suspect ableism in your parents' decision.
posted by splitpeasoup at 9:42 AM on September 19, 2023 [1 favorite]
E.g., among coast Salish peoples, the name taboo is so strong that living people are expected to change their names if someone with the same name dies, even a non relative.
OTOH, many Euro cultures may have many people with the same name even in the immediate family, both dead and living.
The simplest explanation is that your friend and family have different cultural takes on this (which can happen even within the same large ethnicity); neither is correct or incorrect, unless you suspect ableism in your parents' decision.
posted by splitpeasoup at 9:42 AM on September 19, 2023 [1 favorite]
As other people are saying, it totally depends on your parents' motivation. If they just liked the name enough to want to use it themselves, that seems fine. If one reason they liked the name was because they knew and liked the kid who had it, that also seems fine. A lot of people would avoid using a name that had already been given to a relative's child, but a lot of others wouldn't and it's not bizarre, especially if you only saw the other family once a year. In this type of scenario, the fact that the other kid had CP seems irrelevant.
If the other child was not expected to live long and your parents chose the name to honor their memory after they were gone . . . yeah, most people would see that as weird, even bizarre. And if both children knew that was the reason they shared a name, that does seem like it would be pretty cruel. If neither of you knew, that makes it a lot better.
I think it also makes a difference whether the other parents were consulted and how they felt about it. If they liked the idea, then it seems like a nice gesture. If I had a child who died young, I think I would be angry if another relative named their child after mine. But other people probably feel differently. I recently overheard a woman telling someone that she and her husband had named their dog the nickname of their grandson who passed away and that struck me as very weird, but obviously it didn't feel weird or wrong at all to the people who did it.
posted by Redstart at 9:59 AM on September 19, 2023 [2 favorites]
If the other child was not expected to live long and your parents chose the name to honor their memory after they were gone . . . yeah, most people would see that as weird, even bizarre. And if both children knew that was the reason they shared a name, that does seem like it would be pretty cruel. If neither of you knew, that makes it a lot better.
I think it also makes a difference whether the other parents were consulted and how they felt about it. If they liked the idea, then it seems like a nice gesture. If I had a child who died young, I think I would be angry if another relative named their child after mine. But other people probably feel differently. I recently overheard a woman telling someone that she and her husband had named their dog the nickname of their grandson who passed away and that struck me as very weird, but obviously it didn't feel weird or wrong at all to the people who did it.
posted by Redstart at 9:59 AM on September 19, 2023 [2 favorites]
In the American tradition it's considered normal to name your son as father's-first-name, Jr. to honor to the son's father.
My 4 sibling cousins are named after all 4 grandparents, alive at the time. This was possible because there were, conveniently, 2 male and 2 female offspring. Notably none of their own children was given a family name.
I agree that naming customs are cultural. Also, having too many Michaels, Theresas and Marias in the family at one time is confusing.
posted by citygirl at 10:00 AM on September 19, 2023
My 4 sibling cousins are named after all 4 grandparents, alive at the time. This was possible because there were, conveniently, 2 male and 2 female offspring. Notably none of their own children was given a family name.
I agree that naming customs are cultural. Also, having too many Michaels, Theresas and Marias in the family at one time is confusing.
posted by citygirl at 10:00 AM on September 19, 2023
FYI, Cerebral Palsy is not necessarily a direct cause of premature death. Some people with CP live long lives.
posted by theora55 at 10:01 AM on September 19, 2023 [6 favorites]
posted by theora55 at 10:01 AM on September 19, 2023 [6 favorites]
I think I’d want to treat the family member with cerebral palsy no differently than a family member who did not have cerebral palsy so then the question becomes whether I’d give someone the same name as their cousin. That’s been done before in my family so I don’t have an issue with it. As a courtesy, I might run it by the parents of the first child with the name.
That said, for whatever reason, it’s more common in my family that a few people have the same middle name. I share my middle name with my child, parent and cousin.
posted by kat518 at 10:15 AM on September 19, 2023 [1 favorite]
That said, for whatever reason, it’s more common in my family that a few people have the same middle name. I share my middle name with my child, parent and cousin.
posted by kat518 at 10:15 AM on September 19, 2023 [1 favorite]
In some cultures every kid in the family might have the same first name (looking at you, Quebec with your proliferation of Maries, Josephs, and Jeans) so it’s not that weird to me.
posted by nouvelle-personne at 10:33 AM on September 19, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by nouvelle-personne at 10:33 AM on September 19, 2023 [2 favorites]
Do you know you were named after your cousin, or could it be that you and your cousin were both named after the same person? My parents made a point of using only family names; each of us has a first name from one side and a middle name from the other. Though supposedly my dad campaigned heavily to name me Frodo, I ended up with my mother's maiden name as my first name. My brother is named for my father's brother, and we have to sometimes clarify in conversation which we mean but usually it's clear from context.
In my mother's family (nine in her generation), her eldest brother was named after their father (first, last AND middle so a true Junior), and then her second brother and third sister each also used that first name for a child, about 15 years apart. So I have a grandfather, an uncle, and two cousins with the same first name. Three of the four with that first name have the same last name as well.
For good measure, it's the middle name for (I think) 6 of our 29 cousin-cohort including my brother. I have not tracked the diaspora closely enough to know if the name has been carried over to the next generations.
posted by buildmyworld at 11:58 AM on September 19, 2023 [3 favorites]
In my mother's family (nine in her generation), her eldest brother was named after their father (first, last AND middle so a true Junior), and then her second brother and third sister each also used that first name for a child, about 15 years apart. So I have a grandfather, an uncle, and two cousins with the same first name. Three of the four with that first name have the same last name as well.
For good measure, it's the middle name for (I think) 6 of our 29 cousin-cohort including my brother. I have not tracked the diaspora closely enough to know if the name has been carried over to the next generations.
posted by buildmyworld at 11:58 AM on September 19, 2023 [3 favorites]
My dad, brother, son and nephew all have the same first name. Son and nephew are only 1 year apart in age. No one, either in the family or outside it, finds it weird at all
posted by Samarium at 12:15 PM on September 19, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by Samarium at 12:15 PM on September 19, 2023 [1 favorite]
I don't have kids (yet) but would totally name my (hypothetical) child the name of a beloved living family member or friend, in part because I really like the name on its own and also because I now have very positive associations with it. I don't know the details of this particular situation you describe in that it could be weird but it could also just be nice or random!
posted by smorgasbord at 1:45 PM on September 19, 2023
posted by smorgasbord at 1:45 PM on September 19, 2023
Me, my dad, his dad, his dad, and his dad all have the same first name. I think this goes back to sometime in the 1840s, to be honest.
So not weird at all, at least not to me.
posted by ralan at 3:57 PM on September 19, 2023 [1 favorite]
So not weird at all, at least not to me.
posted by ralan at 3:57 PM on September 19, 2023 [1 favorite]
I do find it sort of weird and potentially cruel, and it took me a bit to sit down and figure out why.
Back when I thought I might be having kids some day, I rather liked the idea of passing along one of the first names that has been in my family for a very long time. And I liked it for two main reasons: firstly, as a way to honor the love and care that my older relatives gave to me, and to possibly encourage my child to aspire to the virtues that I saw in those older relatives, and secondly as a way to connect them to centuries of their ancestors, so that they could see themselves as "this generation's [first_name]"
For the first motivation, it's possible that, even at the age of 10, your parents could already see that your cousin was going to be an extraordinary person worthy of both the honor of having a relative named after them and worthy of your emulation, but it seems unlikely. It gives me weird vibes in the same way that if I heard that a lifelong paraplegic had won a long-jumping medal, I would be worried that something gross and patronizing was going on.
For the second, it just seems weird to have two of the same name in the same generation, and it makes me wonder about the motivation. I absolutely have known people whose families really cared about having a John (or a Richard, or whatever) in each generation, and the doubling with a relative who was disabled (possibly in a way that would dramatically shorten their lifespan) almost makes me think that giving you the same name was an attempt at a sort of "do-over." As in "well, the first John was defective, so I guess we'd better have a second go at it." I've come across families that definitely would have thought that way. (Which is not the same as saying that your parents did think that way!)
Again, all of this is coming from a very specific personal and cultural context. Just because I find it weird doesn't mean it capital-I Is Weird. But hopefully this is helpful for you in seeing why some people might find it weird or questionable.
posted by firechicago at 4:49 PM on September 19, 2023 [1 favorite]
Back when I thought I might be having kids some day, I rather liked the idea of passing along one of the first names that has been in my family for a very long time. And I liked it for two main reasons: firstly, as a way to honor the love and care that my older relatives gave to me, and to possibly encourage my child to aspire to the virtues that I saw in those older relatives, and secondly as a way to connect them to centuries of their ancestors, so that they could see themselves as "this generation's [first_name]"
For the first motivation, it's possible that, even at the age of 10, your parents could already see that your cousin was going to be an extraordinary person worthy of both the honor of having a relative named after them and worthy of your emulation, but it seems unlikely. It gives me weird vibes in the same way that if I heard that a lifelong paraplegic had won a long-jumping medal, I would be worried that something gross and patronizing was going on.
For the second, it just seems weird to have two of the same name in the same generation, and it makes me wonder about the motivation. I absolutely have known people whose families really cared about having a John (or a Richard, or whatever) in each generation, and the doubling with a relative who was disabled (possibly in a way that would dramatically shorten their lifespan) almost makes me think that giving you the same name was an attempt at a sort of "do-over." As in "well, the first John was defective, so I guess we'd better have a second go at it." I've come across families that definitely would have thought that way. (Which is not the same as saying that your parents did think that way!)
Again, all of this is coming from a very specific personal and cultural context. Just because I find it weird doesn't mean it capital-I Is Weird. But hopefully this is helpful for you in seeing why some people might find it weird or questionable.
posted by firechicago at 4:49 PM on September 19, 2023 [1 favorite]
I think it's kinda odd. Naming after 3rd or 2nd generation relatives is a thing where I grew up. Naming after a cousin with a unique name just seems unusual?
posted by ovvl at 5:20 PM on September 19, 2023
posted by ovvl at 5:20 PM on September 19, 2023
You're getting a lot of examples of naming kids after people from earlier generations (completely irrelevant), and a couple of cousins having the same name and it being kinda notable (getting warmer), and zero of kids being named after a living person of their own generation (what you are talking about). So yeah, seems pretty non-normative! If you were from a culture where it wasn't weird, you would know. And if your parents were doing it to be cruel, presumably you'd have picked up on that too. My verdict: your parents made a weird, but apparently harmless choice.
posted by umwelt at 8:57 PM on September 19, 2023
posted by umwelt at 8:57 PM on September 19, 2023
How much time did your parents spend with your cousin? Did they like the name and this became apocrypha?
For your friend, Jewish tradition has been covered. Is there some ableism/ignorance about CP that is influential? Like is he presuming the health condition is a death sentence? There are a couple of people in the documentary Crip Camp with CP that go to law school, get married, and raise families, so it’s that adage of, if you know one person with CP, that’s one of a multitude of ways that CP exists within humanity, there is great variation, so it’s best to meet people with any disability where they are (even within a family story) and not presume.
posted by childofTethys at 5:09 AM on September 20, 2023
For your friend, Jewish tradition has been covered. Is there some ableism/ignorance about CP that is influential? Like is he presuming the health condition is a death sentence? There are a couple of people in the documentary Crip Camp with CP that go to law school, get married, and raise families, so it’s that adage of, if you know one person with CP, that’s one of a multitude of ways that CP exists within humanity, there is great variation, so it’s best to meet people with any disability where they are (even within a family story) and not presume.
posted by childofTethys at 5:09 AM on September 20, 2023
There was a time when Europeans might name two kids within one family by the same first name. Go back to the Georgian era in England, and earlier, and a family with nine kids might have two living daughters both named Mary, or two living sons, both named Roger.
This is because many families for whatever reason chose names from a very small pool of choices. If you came from a family where the second and fourth daughter were both named Mary there was a good chance that the two Marys had half a dozen relatives within two degrees named Mary. Four cousin Marys, a grandmother Mary, and three aunt Marys was just what they did. That's part of why some common names had so very many nicknames associated with them. If Margaret was your family's first choice for naming a girl, then you'd have Maggie and Meg and Polly and Marg and Molly all available as a way of distinguishing which Margaret you were talking about.
I suspect your friend thought you were named as a memorial for the cousin with CP as if they had died young and were a tragedy that was being commemorated. And if they hadn't died yet and weren't tragic, it would be quite creepy. But it's more likely that your parents shared a very similar background and values to the cousin's parents and the name was chosen because of that, rather than because they were writing off the cousin and presenting you as the replacement.
I have noticed on the baby name boards that often someone wants to give their baby the latest, most trendy name - Nevaeh was one where this happened a lot - but they also want the name to be unique and original, and they get very, very mad because their siblings or cousins or aunts use the name they wanted to be reserved for their own kid. "I told her before she even got pregnant that I was going to name my kid Nevaeh! And she went ahead and named her baby Neveah anyway! Now if I have a daughter I can't use that name - but I am thinking of going ahead and doing it anyway, out of pure spite!! She stole my baby's name!"
Some people are very averse to giving child the same name as someone else in their family, and yet go ahead and do it anyway.
It's cultural, or micro cultural. The only thing to do is to ask your parents why they did it. But be prepared to be unhappy with their answer - because a surprising number of parents in the end admit, "We just couldn't agree on anything better - neither of us really liked or wanted that name!" You may have been stuck with their tenth choice!
posted by Jane the Brown at 7:44 AM on September 20, 2023
This is because many families for whatever reason chose names from a very small pool of choices. If you came from a family where the second and fourth daughter were both named Mary there was a good chance that the two Marys had half a dozen relatives within two degrees named Mary. Four cousin Marys, a grandmother Mary, and three aunt Marys was just what they did. That's part of why some common names had so very many nicknames associated with them. If Margaret was your family's first choice for naming a girl, then you'd have Maggie and Meg and Polly and Marg and Molly all available as a way of distinguishing which Margaret you were talking about.
I suspect your friend thought you were named as a memorial for the cousin with CP as if they had died young and were a tragedy that was being commemorated. And if they hadn't died yet and weren't tragic, it would be quite creepy. But it's more likely that your parents shared a very similar background and values to the cousin's parents and the name was chosen because of that, rather than because they were writing off the cousin and presenting you as the replacement.
I have noticed on the baby name boards that often someone wants to give their baby the latest, most trendy name - Nevaeh was one where this happened a lot - but they also want the name to be unique and original, and they get very, very mad because their siblings or cousins or aunts use the name they wanted to be reserved for their own kid. "I told her before she even got pregnant that I was going to name my kid Nevaeh! And she went ahead and named her baby Neveah anyway! Now if I have a daughter I can't use that name - but I am thinking of going ahead and doing it anyway, out of pure spite!! She stole my baby's name!"
Some people are very averse to giving child the same name as someone else in their family, and yet go ahead and do it anyway.
It's cultural, or micro cultural. The only thing to do is to ask your parents why they did it. But be prepared to be unhappy with their answer - because a surprising number of parents in the end admit, "We just couldn't agree on anything better - neither of us really liked or wanted that name!" You may have been stuck with their tenth choice!
posted by Jane the Brown at 7:44 AM on September 20, 2023
Just throwing an idea out there....
If a couple uses a family legacy name for their child ("Every generation in my family has a John Henry Jones!") and then circumstances make it likely that this child will not carry on the name to the next generation, then recycling the name by another couple could be a problem.
This assumes something about the health and life expectancy of the child.
This assumes that the child will eventually want to have children of their own.
This assumes that all means of having a family are closed to them.
I get the unintended insult. The child is being pushed aside. But unless the tradition only allows one "John Henry Jones" per generation, it's splitting hairs.
As for multiple siblings with the same first name, that can be attributed to child mortality rates. A child dies and the next baby of the same sex is given the same name. It gets confusing when doing genealogy charts.
In other cases, the parents recycle the same first and/or middle names repeatedly but the children go by nicknames according to family records. Often these nicknames follow them through the rest of their lives.
This is why my dad was known at family reunions as "Joe" and "Big Boy," and my aunt's husband and his twin were "Biggin" and "Lillan" (Littl'n). Those were not the names on their Social Security cards and tax records, but they never used them unless required by law.
Their obituaries and gravestones include common names and legal names to avoid confusion.
posted by TrishaU at 8:54 PM on September 20, 2023
If a couple uses a family legacy name for their child ("Every generation in my family has a John Henry Jones!") and then circumstances make it likely that this child will not carry on the name to the next generation, then recycling the name by another couple could be a problem.
This assumes something about the health and life expectancy of the child.
This assumes that the child will eventually want to have children of their own.
This assumes that all means of having a family are closed to them.
I get the unintended insult. The child is being pushed aside. But unless the tradition only allows one "John Henry Jones" per generation, it's splitting hairs.
As for multiple siblings with the same first name, that can be attributed to child mortality rates. A child dies and the next baby of the same sex is given the same name. It gets confusing when doing genealogy charts.
In other cases, the parents recycle the same first and/or middle names repeatedly but the children go by nicknames according to family records. Often these nicknames follow them through the rest of their lives.
This is why my dad was known at family reunions as "Joe" and "Big Boy," and my aunt's husband and his twin were "Biggin" and "Lillan" (Littl'n). Those were not the names on their Social Security cards and tax records, but they never used them unless required by law.
Their obituaries and gravestones include common names and legal names to avoid confusion.
posted by TrishaU at 8:54 PM on September 20, 2023
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posted by notjustthefish at 7:47 AM on September 19, 2023 [6 favorites]