Was I wrong to continue child support claim

August 31, 2023 10:05 AM

Was I wrong to continue to file child support claim when my coparent is having financial difficulties?

I recently had a child support hearing with my ex. He was pretty upset that I had filed in the first place and is seething now. A few details:

I originally filed last year, while I had the kids full-time. I didn't expect money but wanted to incentive him to use his parenting time as I was feeling burnt out with our 2 toddlers. We have 50/50 custody agreement but he got into legal and trouble wanted to me to keep the kids. This went over for over a year and half. We had a brief period of not exactly 50/50 but close to it during March - August this year. However kids have gone back to school at a new school and are with me 90%.

Other details, I work a standard 9-5 and he's self employed with sometimes late and evening hours. Despite this $1300 is a good month for him in his line of work which is too low to pay support.

He's upset and accused me of trying to "ruin him" by filing and allowing the judge to paint him as a deadbeat while I said nothing. I can't allow a judge to do anything. I spoke when I was permitted and answered the questions asked.

The judge asked if he had at least 40% time, he doesn’t. And although his income is low the judge questioned how he was serving given that his expenses exceed his income significantly each month. She then asked his age, education, and previous work and income. When she found he had a BA and had normal 9-5 jobs before that paid significantly more she told him that they may calculate support based on his earning capacity instead. She said that with his age and education bur continuing to work in this low income job he was reducing his earning potential and that he could not do that when he had kids.

No one ever called him a deadbeat, or yelled. In addition, he had an attorney and seems to be upset since she said they filed a counterclaim against me. There was one on file and the judge threw it out.

Now, he's mad at me and threatening to pull our kids from daycare so he's not taken advantage of by me.

I didn't ruin him, I filed because I had the kids full-time and need some form of support from him - either time or money - to raise our kids. He had an attorney and should have been prepared, it's not my fault that she wasn't. He may be having financial difficulty because of his low income but I agree with the judge that he may need to go back to old line of work in order to make more money. $650 - $1300 a month isn't sustainable and realistic. I've mentioned this to him before.

posted by CosmicSeeker42 to Human Relations (27 answers total)

You didn't ruin him, he needs to figure out how to support his kids.
posted by chesty_a_arthur at 10:09 AM on August 31, 2023 [67 favorites]

Nope, you weren't wrong.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 10:13 AM on August 31, 2023 [9 favorites]

Once you've divorced the dude, you no longer need to worry about how he feels. Do your best to block out his emotions, and focus on what is best for your kids, the way you did. Is he legally able to pull your kids from daycare? If not, try to document any threats he is making in case you need to go back to court. Good luck, you are doing a great job!
posted by MFZ at 10:16 AM on August 31, 2023 [34 favorites]

I personally plan to tell my partner that I am going to be working part time and $1300 will be a good month for me going forward - I don't really want to work as much as I do and of course there is no reason why I should work to provide support to the household.

No, you are not wrong. This seems like extremely typical toxic-resentful-ex behavior on his part. A caring parent would do his best to make enough money to pay child support and if he for some reason were not able to do that, he would definitely assist in every other available way.
posted by Frowner at 10:21 AM on August 31, 2023 [4 favorites]

To be frank, it is really typical of non-custodial parents, especially men, to forget that they're also responsible for their kids and to feel resentful when the world reminds them. Misogyny means this resentment often gets transferred onto their female partners, who become villains "taking advantage" of them by not shouldering the burden all on their own.

Parents have to make choices that allow them to support their children, and for some, that means staying in a boring but stable job instead of chasing an exciting freelance career - or whatever it is he's doing. Can you quit your job to work part-time for $1300 a month with kids? No? Then neither can he.

You were in the right to file the claim and the judge was in the right to remind him that he has responsibilities. It really sucks that he's toxic and resentful, but it's not because of anything you did wrong. It's because he has the patriarchal mind rot.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 10:29 AM on August 31, 2023 [65 favorites]

Your responsibility is to your children, not your co-parent. They are entitled to support from him, even if he has to work a less-preferred job to make enough to meet his obligations under a system that you did not personally establish, that takes things like presumed earning capacity into account. You did the right thing in following the established process to determine what he owes; now it's up to him to figure out how to meet that obligation.

It was maybe a bit of a doomed idea that going after the money was somehow going to get you the time instead, since he doesn't sound like someone who actually wants time with his kids, but that still doesn't mean your choice to seek support from him was wrong.

Talk to your lawyer about whether he can unilaterally remove your children from daycare, and if not, what you need to get in place with the daycare administration to ensure they know which parent has custody and is responsible for enrollment decisions. If he's going to get into a weird petty power struggle with you it's to your benefit and your child's to have it crystal-clear with the school admin who is legally permitted to pick the kids up, change enrollment information, etc.
posted by Stacey at 10:29 AM on August 31, 2023 [15 favorites]

"I didn't ruin him, I filed because I had the kids full-time and need some form of support from him - either time or money - to raise our kids."

That's your answer. Despite anyone's personal feelings to the contrary, child support is for the children. You've done nothing wrong here. If he attempts to mess with daycare you may want to file for a custody modification such that he doesn't have a say over this. You work full time; you need care you can count on.
posted by wormtales at 10:33 AM on August 31, 2023 [23 favorites]

I saw the subject line and knew it was you before I even saw who posted it.

No, you're not wrong. This guy just continues to not like the responsibility of being a parent. Oh well. Child support laws are there to ensure that children get supported.

+1 if he attempts to mess with daycare, immediately file for a custody modification (full legal custody to you) so that he can't.
posted by fingersandtoes at 10:44 AM on August 31, 2023 [6 favorites]

The overall question should be this: "Did your actions help the children, either now or in the future?"

From the sounds of things, he's not doing his best by the kids and there's not a lot you can make him do, even if you would really like to. Ultimately it may be less stressful to seek support elsewhere, instead of trying ask, rely, or force him.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 10:53 AM on August 31, 2023

No, you are certainly not wrong.

Two things come to mind to think about from the legal perspective.

First, at least as conceptualized in my jurisdiction, child support, although paid to the other parent, is the legal right of the child. For this reason, a parent cannot make an agreement that the other person does not have to pay child support. Therefore in seeking support, it's not about you, it's about what your children are entitled to.

Second, the law accounts for his financial means, and it's an adversarial legal system where each party is responsible for raising their own legal rights. If he is truly unable to contribute a certain amount, it is his responsibility to raise evidence of that. You don't know for certain how much income he is currently making, and the system requires him to account for that. By no means are people always honest on financial statements.

Responsibility for the consequences is not on you, and it's up to you to take action to make sure your children have what they deserve.
posted by lookoutbelow at 11:02 AM on August 31, 2023 [5 favorites]

You were 1000% right.
posted by tristeza at 11:04 AM on August 31, 2023 [4 favorites]

One other stray thought, he's not going to take steps to earn more until there's actual consequences, if not doing so allows him to not pay support. So this situation is not going to change without establishing the support claim and debt beginning to accrue. Also, if you do establish the amount of support, you may be able to offload the enforcement to a governmental family maintenance enforcement program which has additional powers to make sure it is paid. So even if you doubt he will pay, it may still be worthwhile to pursue the claim to establish a solid future foundation.
posted by lookoutbelow at 11:14 AM on August 31, 2023 [5 favorites]

Nope, not at all, even one tiny bit. Asked and answered.
posted by chasles at 11:14 AM on August 31, 2023 [2 favorites]

Are you the asshole? No, you are not the asshole.
posted by u2604ab at 11:46 AM on August 31, 2023 [1 favorite]

I pay support and am between jobs. I won't lie - it's hard. But ...

Your ex sounds like a selfish ass*. Involving the state is the right thing. It ensures that they and not you have to deal with them paying.

And yes, they may have to upend their life. Why? Because they are a parent, and parents wear big person pants.

Document any threats of retaliation like "I'll pull our kids from school because I don't like to pay" and forward to your lawyer if you have one. And make sure the school administration is informed that this is a two parent shared custody situation so that they know that your ex cannot on their own unenroll your kid.

* if they were already paying voluntary support, and it was close to the court amount, and they were easy to work with, then maybe you two could have gotten a mediated support agreement instead of going to court, but it would have been for the same amount, just with them sending a check directly to you instead of to you via the state. There are some advantages to that, such as the debt not showing on a credit report.

But them being upstanding and easy to work with doesn't sound like it's the case here. So court was correct.
posted by zippy at 1:14 PM on August 31, 2023 [2 favorites]

You're not wrong. And you could be "upset" to the point of "seething" that you needed to file in the first place. Instead you're calm, sensible, and putting the needs of your children first, like the good parent you are. I sincerely hope your ex matures and gets his priorities in order.

He has a lawyer; I trust you have one, too. If his threat is to pull them out of daycare and provide that care himself, to reduce the financial support he owes his children, please know that is not a unilateral decision. The custody agreement would need to be re-negotiated and amended.

In some post-break-up situations, one party will reel from crisis to crisis and try to make their ex somehow responsible for their misfortunes. If that's what your kids' dad is doing (by avoiding paying child support; filing the thrown-out countersuit; underearning, though changing that may be within his control; blaming you, and now making threats), it's a bid to stay the focus of your attention with dramatic churn. It's unfair to you, and to your children. It's setting a lousy example of adult behavior. They're only toddler age, but be on the lookout for "this is all your mother's fault" smack talk and undermining. If there are trustworthy, solid men in your life (ideally, non-romantic prospects in this phase) to provide good role models, try to nurture those connections.

Politely use every legal tool at your disposal in managing your co-parent relationship, be cordial and dispassionate, and document everything. Best wishes, OP.
posted by Iris Gambol at 1:27 PM on August 31, 2023 [6 favorites]

if you're in court again, see about getting a court order to keep all communications on OurFamilyWizard. In my county this is SOP. It logs all communications between the parties, so BS like threats, broken promises, etc can always be shown to the judge. It generally promotes people behaving themselves.
posted by fingersandtoes at 1:47 PM on August 31, 2023 [2 favorites]

Response by poster: OP here - thanks for all the answers thus far. I didn't feel or believe I was in the wrong but when you're in the thick of it it's nice to get outside validation. An order will be sent out sometime this week so we'll see what the end result is.

Hopefully, this will result in him getting a better paying job butbits uncertain. One detail I left out is that he may currently have difficulty getting a standard job due to some criminal charges. These charges occurred sometime after our separation and they're pretty serious. I believe the judge may factor that in as well howeve, also attribute his charges to poor decision making on his part too.
posted by CosmicSeeker42 at 1:50 PM on August 31, 2023 [3 favorites]

One of the best and most glorious things about a divorce is no longer being responsible for the exes' poor life decisions, and no longer being responsible for their emotions. I strongly encourage you to leave behind any responsibility for his emotions that he is still futilely trying to make you bear. What? His actions bore consequences? Him problem, not a you problem. He needs to support his kids and make the choices that let him do so. Figuring out how to get there is a him problem.
posted by corb at 2:57 PM on August 31, 2023 [6 favorites]

A person I know had always been the primary breadwinner in her marriage, even as she also went to undergraduate and graduate school and did a lot of cooking, cleaning, and caregiving. Her kids were middle school and high school aged when she and her husband got a divorce. He had hardly worked for years and was asking for spousal support so he could continue not to work, including when the kids would be with my friend. My friend told me the judge looked at the husband and said, "Get a job."

Sounds like your judge had the same thinking.

It's definitely the case that some people specifically chose lower paying jobs out of spite for their co-parents. Those of us who want to take care of our obligations do what we can to meet them, and your co-parent has been told they need to do that now.

You did nothing wrong, and you did well advocating for your kids.
posted by bluedaisy at 3:21 PM on August 31, 2023 [4 favorites]

Thank you for standing up for the children. I earned so much more than a t-shirt in this area and DARVO-wrangling. Redirect the conversation to the kids. If he won’t let it go, end the exchange. Pick up a mantra so if he tries to get a rise out of you, it will wash through. “This too will pass” or “The best response for this daycare text is to save it to my legal file”.

You don’t have to respond to any argument you are invited to, and he will likely invite you to many. He needs to sort out his responsibilities, and his attempting to manipulate you is not going to help his kids. Glad you have daycare sorted out. He would have to be effective with spending parental time with the kids for any kind of regular care to be a threat, so that’s a bluff, but don’t challenge him on it, just tell him it’s a good topic for his lawyer and the topic is done.

Kudos to you for making it through this far. I questioned a lot on my journey but it’s also helpful to know that other rational people (like the judge) can speak to what is expected of a parent.
posted by childofTethys at 3:41 PM on August 31, 2023 [1 favorite]

I have many friends, both men *and* women who have been called on to pay child support- there is a reason that states are involved in providing help getting what is needed to raise a child. You are not only asking for what is due, you are also making a claim on any amount of money that the father might come into over the years. I know someone who is collecting past due child support whose child is in their 30s.

When I first got divorced, I had to ask each month for what was agreed to in our divorce agreement. One month my ex said to me, I am switching jobs so you won't get any money for 6 weeks. It was at that moment that I got our state involved. For 15 years they helped collect the money, and I didn't have to do anything. It was the best decision of my life, and made things so much easier. Do not feel shame, or listen to his petty words. He doesn't have a legal leg to stand on. And in fact, if he was doing 50/50 parenting, he might be able to claim child support because the point of it is so that children are allowed the same life style at both parents houses.
posted by momochan at 4:56 PM on August 31, 2023 [4 favorites]

I am very familiar with the scenario you describe.

What I will say is this: well-regulated able-bodied work-capable people, especially men (because of gender socialization in our culture) would typically feel ashamed if they weren't able to provide for their kids. But people who feel that they are victims in every situation (and from what you describe your ex sounds like that), have a feeling of entitlement in the place where others would have that feeling of shame. They are also good at making empathetic and/or codependent people close to them feel bad for not either making them be accountable, or for not buffering them from the consequences of their choices. I think you are the empathetic and/or codependent person in that scenario. Don't introject his narrative of the situation where you ruined him and he has no agency.
posted by virve at 9:00 PM on August 31, 2023 [1 favorite]

Actually I’d think you were the asshole if you DIDN’T make him accountable. Your children deserve that much. It’s pretty clear why he’s an ex, anyway. Keep fighting the good fight and don’t feel bad for a second, he sounds like a deadbeat.
posted by Jubey at 10:21 PM on August 31, 2023 [2 favorites]

It’s pretty outrageous that he expects you to subsidise his freelance career by taking over all the financial and care needs of his children.

Even if you were still together, he wouldn’t have the right to expect that. If you were still together and he wanted to change career and take a massive pay cut, he would need your buy-in to be the breadwinner for the family. And in couples where only one is earning, the other usually expected to do the majority of the childcare/housework.

But the fact he thinks he shouldn’t be expected to pay or care for his own kids and it’s fairer that his ex wife does it all means he thinks that he is entitled to your money and your time- and not vice versa, of course. What’s yours is his, what’s his is his own.
posted by Dwardles at 1:06 AM on September 1, 2023 [1 favorite]

You did the right thing. I’m impressed you stood up for yourself. At the same time - it’s to be expected that he is angry. Anger at losing a court proceeding is totally normal. Doesn’t mean he’s right, just - it’s to be expected. Just ignore it as much as possible.
posted by haptic_avenger at 5:41 AM on September 1, 2023 [1 favorite]

You not only did the right thing by getting an impartial authority involved to resolve the legal questions without the emotional entanglements intrinsic to 1:1s between exes, I'd suggest you take it a step further and have your local child support enforcement agency manage it going forward - an impartial authority that frees you from ongoing uncertainty, stress, conflict and overall drama every month with every check. He won't like it, but removing money drama from your interactions allows you to just be a parent to your kids instead of also parenting their other parent.

Your ex is right about one thing though - by alluding to the voluntary impoverishment your ex is engaged in and that family court judges see every day, the judge was most definitely flashing the word "deadbeat" at him. Your ex blamed you because you're an easier target. This isn't somebody whose feelings are your responsibility.
posted by headnsouth at 6:54 AM on September 1, 2023 [1 favorite]