How to bring up an uncomfortable cleanliness issue?

August 18, 2023 1:39 PM

I feel awful about this and am struggling to find a polite way to bring it up (let alone bring it up at all). Several months ago, our best friends moved their kitty litter box into the middle of their living room — yes, the room where they entertain guests.

They have three wonderful cats that share this box. I love these cats to death, but the odor of excrement is nauseating and strong every time we visit. I also suspect that many people may agree that a living room is a non-standard place to keep a litter box.

According to our friends, they had to move the box into the living room because there's nowhere else they can put it. I'm not 100% clear on the reasons, but it's partly because cats are finnicky and partly because it's an older house with an unusual layout/room arrangement.

I've owned several cats, so I know this stuff is complicated, and thus I won't get into the weeds about the places where they could put the litter box but choose not to.

One of our friends keeps his chair right in front of the litter box. This is not an exaggeration - it's literally right behind his chair. I'm not sure how he sits on top of this box and endures the odor, but they tend to address it by burning incense or occasionally cracking a window (neither solution is successful). There is also kitty litter all over the floor, because that's how litter boxes work.

Here's the thing. Our friends still keep their house relatively clean and tidy, but there has always been a lot of cat hair. We accepted a long time ago that visiting them meant we'd have to go home covered in cat hair — not the end of the world, and a small inconvenience given how much we love our friends. (Although my spouse has a mild-to-medium cat allergy, so this has been even more challenging for him than it has been for me.) But ever since they made the decision to move the box several months ago, we both feel sick to our stomach when we visit. All you can smell is cat poop and that kitty litter "deodorizer" stench.

My spouse wants to address this with them because it's reached a point where it's ruining our ability to enjoy the time we spend with our friends — I feel nauseous when I'm there, and he always has to take a shower the moment we get home. I'd like to bring it up to our friends, too, but I feel like it's rude to say something about the perceived cleanliness of someone else's home. I also understand and am sensitive to the complications involved in managing a house with three cats.

My question: should we say something, and if we should, how can we bring it up in a way that is compassionate and non-judgmental?

For the purpose of this question, please assume that 1) Refusing to visit them at their home is not an option, 2) They don't have another room that we can go sit in, 3) We can go outdoors but we're in Canada, so we need to be able to address this during our longish winters.

posted by nightrecordings to Human Relations (24 answers total)

I would bring it up in the context of the allergy. Explain that recent visits have caused more severe reactions than previously and you were wondering if when you do come to visit next if they would temporarily move the litter box to the bathroom or another location. Then, next time you go bring a few treats for the cats to show it is nothing personal, just worsening allergies.,
posted by JohnnyGunn at 1:44 PM on August 18, 2023 [3 favorites]

This cat owner would really like it if a dear friend told me our situation stank, rather than face embarrassing myself with someone else.
posted by advicepig at 1:57 PM on August 18, 2023 [40 favorites]

yeah...I have cats and sometimes when I come home from being out of town I get a 'fresh sense' of how much my house smells like stinky litter box, cause I really really do not want it to smell like that, especially when people are over.

also, this is an aside but 1 box per 3 kitties is definitely not enough, so they may be struggling to keep up with scooping demands.

I think you need to tell them. they obviously don't realize how impactful it is on guests. maybe you can offer to help them figure out a better little box solution in their small space?
posted by supermedusa at 2:01 PM on August 18, 2023 [13 favorites]

It sounds like these are good friends you both like and want to continue spending time with. It's gotten to the point where you don't want to spend time with them. I don't think this is a question of manners. Good friends would rather hear there's a problem than have you back away from the friendship.

I'd phrase as a problem you are having rather than a problem with the house. And you can even say it feels awkward, because it does! Ask if there's a time you can talk. "Hey friend, I feel terrible saying this and this is super awkward for me to address. I really value you as a friend and want to continue spending time with you. Lately, Spouse and I have been pretty uncomfortable in your home. His cat allergies have increased, and I'm feeling a bit sick to my stomach because of the cat poop odor. We just can't be around the litter box anymore, and I'm sorry about that. Is there anything you think we can do to figure this out?"
posted by bluedaisy at 2:02 PM on August 18, 2023 [6 favorites]

This is sounding like an ask vs. guess question. You would dearly love for them to guess what the problem is and solve it without your having to bring it up. Knowing that that won't happen, you'll need to pivot to asking.

You could try this. Before your next visit, you email or text or call. "Friend, I have something to mention that may be embarrassing to you, it's certainly embarrassing to us. The litter box is making your home smell so bad that it's becoming very difficult for us to enjoy being there. We want to keep hanging out with you, but I was hoping you could move the box when we visit" (as JohnnyGunn suggested).

Then, depending how that goes over, you ask, "Would you be open to some ideas about managing this?" Ideas could include...
- adding another litter box (as supermedusa said, 1 for 3 cats is not enough at all)
- scooping more frequently
- managing waste storage (we use covered step-on cans to contain waste until trash pickup day)
- trying different types of litter
- trying different types of box (I haven't tried this but there are the self-cleaning boxes; we use the covered, high-sided type of box that contains spraying incidents and reduces the amount of litter tracked outside the box, it's called CleverCat)
- scrubbing the box more frequently (this is a must)

The other/additional thing you could do for yourselves is mask up (double mask?) when visiting. You don't want to hurt their feelings, I get it, but you are currently being put in a very unpleasant situation, and you say that not going is not an option. The other, other thing you could do is propose a place to meet instead of visiting, but I get the feeling that if that were possible, you'd be doing that already...
posted by dywypi at 2:15 PM on August 18, 2023 [3 favorites]

I think it's fair to tell them that you don't want to sit right next to cat poo, and it's also fair to ask for their help in figuring out how to resolve their stinky cat poo guest problem. If you offer suggestions they can just say "oh that won't work", but if you ask whether they have ideas, they might go into Solutions Mode and come up with an alternative. By the sounds of it, just giving the thing a thorough clean before guests come would be a good start! Or maybe they can move it temporarily somewhere else, sweep up a bit and put it back later.
posted by quacks like a duck at 2:16 PM on August 18, 2023

Since you can't avoid going over there, I assume you're pretty good friends, so I'm going with a tough-love cut once and cut deep, "Dude, you gotta move the litter box. Seriously. Dude. It's gross." maybe with a tone of "I'm speaking for other visitors, too." Preface it with a "Friends, I love you, but I gotta tell you something..." Additionally, I'm almost certain there's a Seinfeld episode with a similar plot point.

One of our friends keeps his chair right in front of the litter box. This is not an exaggeration - it's literally right behind his chair. I'm not sure how he sits on top of this box and endures the odor

Easy: he doesn't smell it anymore. Very common in many stinky contexts.
posted by rhizome at 2:23 PM on August 18, 2023 [12 favorites]

So.... I am someone who keeps the litter box in their living room for house layout, wall-to-wall carpeting and air circulation reasons. I would LOVE to keep it in the bathroom, perhaps in the bathtub, but the bathroom fan is incredibly loud, doesn't work very well, and an especially stinky poo woke me up in the middle of the night because this bathroom is right off the bedroom.

I also would dearly love to know if my litterbox living room set-up is stinking up things so badly friends don't want to visit.

Things that have worked for me, and you may or may not want to include these suggestions in the conversation you have with your friends.

1) Placement of the litter boxes (2 for 2 cats) is right next to a window. When weather permits, we keep a window fan installed that has reversible air flow, but mostly keep the setting on blowing air outdoor. The fan has the accordion sides that provide privacy and help keep the cold air from streaming in during cold weather.

2) A MeFite mentioned that a poultry-only diet is considerably less stinky than a primarily fish diet. Thank you whoever mentioned that because it is totally true in my experience. When we have guests, I only feed the cats their turkey and chicken-based foods. I also have tilted the ratio of poultry to fish to 2:1 in general, even when we don't have guests. One of the cats has forgotten how to cover his poo, he just scrapes at the sides of the box and then looks down to check his work, wonders why it isn't covered yet, and then repeats ad nauseum.

3) I crank up the air filter (IKEA purchase) to the highest setting if I smell a stink bomb, but pretty much always keep it on the lowest level when we don't have the windows open.

4) I semi-hide the litter boxes behind a bookcase, so at least there is more visual separation.
posted by spamandkimchi at 2:30 PM on August 18, 2023 [3 favorites]

I don’t think there’s a delicate way to say “Friends, I love you, and I love your cats, but this room smells. Maybe it’s that box of cat pee and turds in front of us?”

So I’d say that.
posted by zippy at 2:32 PM on August 18, 2023 [12 favorites]

Perhaps because I also currently have my litter box in my living room, but I wouldn't focus on the location - I don't think anyone wants this arrangement, but sometimes it's the best option.

But, whenever I know people are coming over, I deep-clean the cat box. That won't eliminate all smells as they happen, but the odor should not be "nauseating." It does sound like they likely don't scoop enough - with three cats sharing one box, that really should be scooped twice a day, with a weekly deep clean. And they should be replacing the box at least once a year.

Anyway, if they are indeed close friends I'd go with one of the scripts above that clearly state the problem - i.e. the smell is so strong that you cannot enjoy spending time with them, and then ask if they could start doing a deep clean /replace the litter before you come over.
posted by coffeecat at 3:00 PM on August 18, 2023 [1 favorite]

I think you have unfortunately been drawn into the low level folie a deux that spins up around a cat and its subjects. Your partner is allergic to cats, and yes it still counts as allergic if he can pet a kitty without the end of My Girl happening – of course it’s okay to say something! It would be okay to say something even if they just had a single cat that didn’t shed that much! You definitely should say something now that they have you hanging out in the same room as a triple dose of cat dookie!!!
posted by katiec at 3:06 PM on August 18, 2023 [3 favorites]

maybe the next time you're discussing plans just matter of factly include it in the plan. Like "Saturday sounds great! Also, hope it won't be an inconvenience to you, but as the smell of the litter box is very strong in the living room, hopefully we can move it somewhere else while we're hanging out. tysm, looking forward to seeing you."

(That's if moving it elsewhere temporarily will solve your problem... which I guess you won't know until you try. Maybe you'll get lucky and they'll take the hint and not only move it but also EMPTY IT when guests are coming over which also seems like very basic courtesy and hygiene to me, but people are a rich tapestry.)
posted by fingersandtoes at 3:11 PM on August 18, 2023 [2 favorites]

Would you ever be willing to say, well in advance of your actually coming over, "This is totally an awkward thing to ask, but could you please clean the litterbox before we come over? The last few times we've been over it's been pretty rank." That seems like it gets to your actual problem. It's awkward! But I don't think there's a non-awkward way to say, "your home routinely smells so bad I feel like I'm going to barf." It's just an awkward situation all around.
posted by mskyle at 3:21 PM on August 18, 2023 [3 favorites]

It's not the location as much as how dirty the box is. If there was a clean box with clean sand in it, and if your friends got up and swept and cleaned it the moment the cats used it - at least while you were visiting - the problem would be massively reduced. The problem is that your poor friends are not up to take proper care of their cats.

This means that putting pressure on them to clean the boxes is likely to be unsuccessful. If they could do an adequate job they would be. At most putting them on notice that the box is unbearable will push them into slightly higher gear, and get them to maybe rake it out just before you come over. But that won't work because the box and the room are going to still carry the scent from all the times it sat dirty.

Your best bet may be to tell them up front that the allergic member of your family is suffering too much, and that the non allergic member needs to clean the box for them. This is, of course, asking way too much of you. If you need to have a place that you can tolerate, doing the cleaning yourself may be the only way to not have to sit with a box full of piss in front of you.

What about if you bring over a brand new disposable cat box every time you visit - you can buy those at dollar stores and grocery stores - and get them to move their regular stinky box and put the disposable one out for the duration of the visit? That won't do much for the air though.
posted by Jane the Brown at 3:25 PM on August 18, 2023

Two things:

First, we as humans are optimized to notice stink for *problems*, like that is why we notice foul odors, so that we can deal with problems. This means that no matter how bad things are, if they are regularly that bad, our brain will kind of tune out the background odor. Your friends *likely cannot smell the cat litter box odor as foul as you can*.

Secondly, I would believe them that cats are finicky; my current setup still has a litter box in a place that is suboptimal for me, because the cat is finicky and there was once a litter box there. They may not have another option on placement.

Could you give them a gift of an air filter? Like one of the 100$ ones that work for smoke, etc? You could easily blame it on the allergy, say 'We love hanging out with you, unfortunately the old allergies have really been acting up, let's keep this in the living room!
posted by corb at 3:57 PM on August 18, 2023

This means that no matter how bad things are, if they are regularly that bad, our brain will kind of tune out the background odor.

This is true. It's called olfactory fatigue or saturation.

As someone who has a pet that does most of their toileting indoors in a small apartment and does her best to keep the smells down, I would be mortified to hear that the odor was a problem, but also grateful that my friend cared enough to tell me. I endorse bluedaisy's script and caution against fingersandtoes's just because (while meant kindly) it has the built-in assumption both that the friends know and that they don't care, like it's the default state for these weirdos to have a stinky apartment. Trebly mortifying!!!
posted by praemunire at 4:45 PM on August 18, 2023 [2 favorites]

Here’s what I would say, to whoever I was closest to: “I want to talk about something kind of uncomfortable. Ever since you’ve moved the litter box to the living room, it’s become tough to enjoy visiting at your place. The smell is really strong, and it makes me feel sick. I love spending time with you, but I need something to change. Would you be willing to move the litter box, or should we switch to socializing at our place or another location?”

I’d say this even if they’ve been insistent there’s no other option for the litter box, even if their house is conveniently located, even if your place is terrible for entertaining. Whatever the options might be, continuing to go to their place is no longer one of them unless the litter box is relocated—and you need to be clear about that (kindly).
posted by theotherdurassister at 6:01 PM on August 18, 2023 [7 favorites]

I believe that kitty litter boxes can be a particularly big trigger for people with cat allergies, so I think you could raise this with them from that perspective.

My suggestions would be:
* They need to scoop the litter more frequently
* They need to vacuum more frequently
* They might benefit to switching to a different type of litter.
* They might benefit from using litter tray liners, as these can stop the tray from being impregnated with smell

I have found that there's a certain type of clumping litter which is really effective. Scoop Away brand (sold at Costco) is this type of litter, but there are other brands too.

It makes it very easy to scoop both poo and urine and leave behind unused litter, which helps with both smell and also not needing to change all of the litter as frequently. It seems to be effective at addressing odour without trying to just cover it up with a different scent.
posted by kinddieserzeit at 6:39 PM on August 18, 2023 [2 favorites]

There are a lot of solutions to the kitty litter problem - more litter boxes, litter box furniture with charcoal odor absorber, new location, large air purifier, less cats, more frequent changing/cleaning, etc. - but it's not your place to solve their problem. When you start treading into the territory of unsolicited suggestions, that's when there is a risk of implied judgement (you're dirty, bad cat owners, bad housekeepers, etc.).

I think you need to simply state the problem you're having - discomfort, increased allergies. Since not visiting is not an option, you need stress how much you want to keep visiting, but that some changes are needed. Let them figure out the changes that work best for them. If they aren't going to change, then you can think about the boundaries you do want to set - less visits, shorter visits, only visiting during months when you can sit outdoors, etc.
posted by brookeb at 8:03 PM on August 18, 2023 [4 favorites]

To add to the chorus, my brother keeps his cats' litter trays in the lounge, which never smell. Maybe if one of them drops a deuce in the midst of us hanging out we will notice it (one of his cats has kitty IBS, poor lad) but yeah. It doesn't have to be this way. More frequent cleaning and a change of litter type would likely mitigate the issues.

Personally, I would say something more like "We've been struggling a bit with the smell of the litter trays when hanging out in the lounge. It can be quite distracting and a bit unpleasant. Is there any way they could be temporarily relocated or something like that before we come over?".
posted by BeeJiddy at 10:17 PM on August 18, 2023

It’s a legitimate concern to raise with them as it is affecting your ability to enjoy your friends’ company. But I’d stay clear of any suggestions for how they could improve things. That’s for them to figure out unless they want to brainstorm solutions with you.

Having said that, you may also want to start to think about what you want to do if nothing changes. People have made excellent points as to why they may not be able or willing to maintain a cleaner setup at this time.

Would you be able to accept that you’ll suffer through these visits? Would you visit less? Or figure out how to hang out with these people outside their home after all?

It may be useful to have an answer to these questions to navigate the conversation and its aftermath.
posted by koahiatamadl at 6:10 AM on August 19, 2023 [1 favorite]

If you can throw money at this problem, I highly recommend the fancy shmancy most recent iteration of the litter robot. It costs about a bazillion money and I don’t even know if it’s sold in Canada but our house went from incredibly stinky to perfectly tolerable in about two weeks of feline adjustment and airing out. We just recently deep cleaned the area that used to be the disaster zone and is now the robot zone (affectionately named the Shit-o-matic) and it’s even more tolerable now! But we wouldn’t have had the energy to do this if the robot hadn’t been taking the whole litter burden off our shoulders for a while beforehand, because overwhelm.

Now, how do you get your friends to use such a device? I suggest buying two, raving about yours, and showing up with the second one and saying you had gotten two but one was so effective that you didn’t need both and you wanted to give this one to them. Even more money spent! But possibly worth it? Or, asking them for a financial favor of approximately equal cost and repaying them in litter robot, like maybe a barter situation of their unpaid time for your conveniently acquired magical poop orb? There’s all sorts of possibilities. Maybe also you can just suggest it during a frank conversation and they can get one themselves because it’s worth the monetary outlay.

I know it was for us. We are notoriously bad at cleaning the litter boxes in our lives and have been for nearly twenty years of cohabitation, so it’s a clear issue of initial cost vs long term value for us, both physically and psychologically. But perhaps your friends are not like this and it’s a temporary/new issue that is impacting their lives and spilling over to the care of their cats. I think it’s worth asking about. Maybe there is a cumulative chore crunch or new health concern or home maintenance problem that you could help with, or maybe it’s a matter of priorities where they need to decide if socializing with you is worth the extra effort of addressing the litter box problem. I’ve been on both sides of this (also with an allergic partner who loves cats whoops) so I’m sympathetic to everyone in your question! It’s a complicated issue of indoor cat living and something that we don’t have preapproved social scripts for.
posted by Mizu at 9:28 AM on August 19, 2023 [2 favorites]

i would be incredibly embarrassed but ultimately quite glad if a friend told me this. just don't be mean/rude about it.
posted by misanthropicsarah at 10:19 AM on August 21, 2023

So I don’t know if this has been covered upthread, even if the box is out in the open, there’s no reason it shouldn’t be scooped in a regular basis. Especially if! My box is tucked away under my kitchen cabinets (thank you previous owners), and I make sure to scoop twice a day, at a minimum. But I absolutely hate the smell of dirty litterbox.

Litterboxes shouldn’t smell! End of story!
posted by computech_apolloniajames at 1:30 AM on August 22, 2023 [1 favorite]