Have you considered moving because of climate change?
August 15, 2023 5:41 AM Subscribe
If you have considered moving because of climate change, tell us more: your thought process, where you would be moving from, where you would move to, if you have decided, etc.
I live in Chicago and one of the reasons I won't move away is climate change.
We have a historically low incidence of natural disasters. We have the entirety of the Great Lakes supplying our water. We get cold winters and hot summers, rain, snow, wind, and our homes and buildings are already built with this in mind.
Nowhere is going to be unaffected by climate change, but I think Chicago is set up to do better than many places, more comfortably, for longer.
posted by phunniemee at 5:51 AM on August 15, 2023 [21 favorites]
We have a historically low incidence of natural disasters. We have the entirety of the Great Lakes supplying our water. We get cold winters and hot summers, rain, snow, wind, and our homes and buildings are already built with this in mind.
Nowhere is going to be unaffected by climate change, but I think Chicago is set up to do better than many places, more comfortably, for longer.
posted by phunniemee at 5:51 AM on August 15, 2023 [21 favorites]
We chose not to move due to climate change. We are currently in Richmond, VA, and I wanted to move west. But drought, fires, heat, water, etc., were significant factors in our decision a few months ago to buy a house and commit to Richmond, after 7 years of renting because we kept thinking we'd move.
posted by COD at 5:55 AM on August 15, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by COD at 5:55 AM on August 15, 2023 [3 favorites]
Part of the reason we moved from California to Massachusetts was the increasing wildfires. (And my in-laws moved a couple years later for mostly the same reason - owning livestock in wildfire country is perilous and too often heartbreaking.)
I also for sure pulled up flood maps when we were buying our house and our place has very good drainage and is most of the way up the biggest hill in town.
posted by restless_nomad at 5:58 AM on August 15, 2023 [9 favorites]
I also for sure pulled up flood maps when we were buying our house and our place has very good drainage and is most of the way up the biggest hill in town.
posted by restless_nomad at 5:58 AM on August 15, 2023 [9 favorites]
Climate change has definitely influenced decisions we've mulled about leaving Milwaukee, for the same reasons as Chicago above (that and home prices). There's no escaping what's coming, but the great lakes do feel like a region blessed to uh, weather, the change better than others. Although even here you'll wake up to a hellscape bathed in absolutely unbreathable wildfire smoke when the wind is right.
posted by dis_integration at 6:08 AM on August 15, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by dis_integration at 6:08 AM on August 15, 2023 [2 favorites]
I've definitely considered it.
I live in southern Arizona. The reasons to worry about climate change here are obvious. We've had a couple good years rain-wise but that's coming after a long history of drought. This summer has been, both by the numbers and by felt experience, the hottest and most drawn-out since I moved here 13 years ago. But there are also some reasons I've considered staying put even in the face of climate change. Here, I wouldn't face some of the problems that many other parts of the US will. The cities here aren't threatened by wildfires in the way that many areas of the West are, simply because there's not as much fuel to burn in the desert. Nor are we threatened by hurricanes as the Atlantic coast is. In a way, the fact that it's "just" ludicrously hot and dry makes it feel more manageable. Another plus is that Tucson is, as far as I can tell, one of the better-prepared cities of the Southwest for drought. There's political will and individual and community action here toward water preservation. People set up rainwater collection at their homes and dig basins for natural irrigation. "Neighborhood foresters" work to divert runoff from streets to grow native plants that combat the urban heat island. Of course, it could still all go south if the Colorado River stops going south.
If I were to move for climate reasons, I've mainly considered the upper Midwest, in order to avoid the hazards of the coasts. I've thought about Duluth, Minneapolis, Detroit, as far south as Chicago just because I love that city, or as far east as Pittsburgh because I've heard good things about it. I've also thought about crossing the Atlantic and aiming somewhere in northern Europe. I think I'm one generation too far removed from my immigrant ancestors to get automatic Irish citizenship, so this would be a heavier lift, but probably possible.
posted by egregious theorem at 6:08 AM on August 15, 2023 [2 favorites]
I live in southern Arizona. The reasons to worry about climate change here are obvious. We've had a couple good years rain-wise but that's coming after a long history of drought. This summer has been, both by the numbers and by felt experience, the hottest and most drawn-out since I moved here 13 years ago. But there are also some reasons I've considered staying put even in the face of climate change. Here, I wouldn't face some of the problems that many other parts of the US will. The cities here aren't threatened by wildfires in the way that many areas of the West are, simply because there's not as much fuel to burn in the desert. Nor are we threatened by hurricanes as the Atlantic coast is. In a way, the fact that it's "just" ludicrously hot and dry makes it feel more manageable. Another plus is that Tucson is, as far as I can tell, one of the better-prepared cities of the Southwest for drought. There's political will and individual and community action here toward water preservation. People set up rainwater collection at their homes and dig basins for natural irrigation. "Neighborhood foresters" work to divert runoff from streets to grow native plants that combat the urban heat island. Of course, it could still all go south if the Colorado River stops going south.
If I were to move for climate reasons, I've mainly considered the upper Midwest, in order to avoid the hazards of the coasts. I've thought about Duluth, Minneapolis, Detroit, as far south as Chicago just because I love that city, or as far east as Pittsburgh because I've heard good things about it. I've also thought about crossing the Atlantic and aiming somewhere in northern Europe. I think I'm one generation too far removed from my immigrant ancestors to get automatic Irish citizenship, so this would be a heavier lift, but probably possible.
posted by egregious theorem at 6:08 AM on August 15, 2023 [2 favorites]
I had already thrown in my lot with New England for a number of personal reasons, but it is another major factor. It's also the reason I am urging my parents to move here at a time when the market sucks and New Englanders their age generally move to Florida.
Natural disasters are here, of course -- if things had gone a little differently in our lives, my folks might have been in Montpelier, and you know how that went. But what's crucial is that up here, even states that aren't totally blue have decent infrastructure and elected officials that give a shit about public recovery and policy, at least by comparison to Mississippi, where we're from. This is a huge advantage. We've already been through a climate change disaster in MS on a small scale, when the 2021 winter caused a cold snap so fierce that the town's pumps froze and everyone lost water for weeks. It was even worse in Jackson, as you may have read about, but due to white flight the GOP left the city to rot.
posted by Countess Elena at 6:11 AM on August 15, 2023 [2 favorites]
Natural disasters are here, of course -- if things had gone a little differently in our lives, my folks might have been in Montpelier, and you know how that went. But what's crucial is that up here, even states that aren't totally blue have decent infrastructure and elected officials that give a shit about public recovery and policy, at least by comparison to Mississippi, where we're from. This is a huge advantage. We've already been through a climate change disaster in MS on a small scale, when the 2021 winter caused a cold snap so fierce that the town's pumps froze and everyone lost water for weeks. It was even worse in Jackson, as you may have read about, but due to white flight the GOP left the city to rot.
posted by Countess Elena at 6:11 AM on August 15, 2023 [2 favorites]
We moved from the San Francisco Bay Area back to New Jersey a few years ago in part because of climate change (wildfires, specifically, at least one of which was rather close to our town). However, there were other factors at play, including aging parents back on the East Coast and high real estate prices.
Afterwards, when we bought our house in NJ, avoiding flood zones was a priority. So yeah, climate change has been well on our minds these past several years when it comes to changing up where we live.
posted by May Kasahara at 6:19 AM on August 15, 2023 [2 favorites]
Afterwards, when we bought our house in NJ, avoiding flood zones was a priority. So yeah, climate change has been well on our minds these past several years when it comes to changing up where we live.
posted by May Kasahara at 6:19 AM on August 15, 2023 [2 favorites]
I love the east of England, but we live in the part that used to be underwater 24/7 until some nice engineers from the Netherlands came over several hundred years ago and showed us how to drain it. We haven't yet made a decision or planned a move, but I'm expecting to be looking at projections for sea level rises when I'm finally ready to sell this house & move, and that might mean choosing another part of the region (or the country).
posted by terretu at 6:38 AM on August 15, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by terretu at 6:38 AM on August 15, 2023 [3 favorites]
I am from an area that floods often, so when I bought a house in Texas, I looked at flood maps. I have thought about moving away from Texas for climate reasons. We have had climate incidents in the last few years that have destroyed the local landscape, making it increasingly prone to further problems due to lack of trees, etc. The electric grid is not reliable and if the AC goes out because the electricity goes out or because of routine maintenance, it could be fatal.
We haven't moved because imo the most important tool to survive events is a rich social network. We have a deep community here, and when these previous climate events happened, we were able to get through because of help from friends, and we were also able to help our friends who might have otherwise faced worse outcomes.
posted by tofu_crouton at 6:38 AM on August 15, 2023 [6 favorites]
We haven't moved because imo the most important tool to survive events is a rich social network. We have a deep community here, and when these previous climate events happened, we were able to get through because of help from friends, and we were also able to help our friends who might have otherwise faced worse outcomes.
posted by tofu_crouton at 6:38 AM on August 15, 2023 [6 favorites]
I'm mid east coast US. I expect the climate to become significantly worse but not unbearable as long as the power grid holds up. We'd likely become the new Atlanta, as far as weather. Whether I'd move would depend on a number of factors, mostly based around my projected life expectancy. I've got a good social support network where I am, so if I'm likely to only live five years at the point things get bad, I'm better off staying put and sweating a bit as I hang with long time friends. If I've got twenty years left, maybe it's worth heading north and making new friends.
I have definitely pondered moving to Canada while I'm still young enough to qualify for the skilled worker plan, both because of climate change and US politics.
posted by Candleman at 6:42 AM on August 15, 2023 [1 favorite]
I have definitely pondered moving to Canada while I'm still young enough to qualify for the skilled worker plan, both because of climate change and US politics.
posted by Candleman at 6:42 AM on August 15, 2023 [1 favorite]
I think about it and research my options all the time but I don't think I can afford to move financially and the social costs are high too. Actually what I think is probably the smartest bet is giving up homeownership so that I don't have so much of my net worth tied to one place, but renting is also financially precarious. I don't know. It's all precarious.
posted by HotToddy at 6:49 AM on August 15, 2023 [7 favorites]
posted by HotToddy at 6:49 AM on August 15, 2023 [7 favorites]
We moved fairly recently from a place that is exposed to climate risk in some ways to a place that is exposed to climate risk in different ways. We moved for family, climate, access to the outdoors, and a whole set of specific amenities here, so we weren't really looking at a lot of other options. Maybe, three or four places were on the list, all within the same region of the country. I've spent time in the midwest and east coast, and things would have to be seriously dire here to make me consider moving there (no offense to people who love it there, and I agree there are many nice things in those regions).
Climate risk is partly regional, but also extremely local. This is a region with water scarcity, but I'm in a city with an excellent long-term water plan and no serious concerns about running out. Utility-scale renewable energy projects are being built around the state, too. I deliberately chose a house that is within town, rather than out in the WUI where fires will arrive sooner or later. We've already added AC to compensate for the hotter summers, and as soon as the roof needs to be replaced I will add solar (and possibly battery storage).
People have lived in this region for tens of thousands of years. It isn't going to ever become uninhabitable, but certainly there is a chance it could become impossible to sustain this many people and so people would need to move. If that was the case and we decided it wasn't tenable here, we'd look at other parts of the US, but also at any other countries where we might have access. Everywhere is being affected by climate change, so it is more a matter of choosing your poison and also choosing a place where people seem to be dealing with things productively.
posted by Dip Flash at 7:11 AM on August 15, 2023 [1 favorite]
Climate risk is partly regional, but also extremely local. This is a region with water scarcity, but I'm in a city with an excellent long-term water plan and no serious concerns about running out. Utility-scale renewable energy projects are being built around the state, too. I deliberately chose a house that is within town, rather than out in the WUI where fires will arrive sooner or later. We've already added AC to compensate for the hotter summers, and as soon as the roof needs to be replaced I will add solar (and possibly battery storage).
People have lived in this region for tens of thousands of years. It isn't going to ever become uninhabitable, but certainly there is a chance it could become impossible to sustain this many people and so people would need to move. If that was the case and we decided it wasn't tenable here, we'd look at other parts of the US, but also at any other countries where we might have access. Everywhere is being affected by climate change, so it is more a matter of choosing your poison and also choosing a place where people seem to be dealing with things productively.
posted by Dip Flash at 7:11 AM on August 15, 2023 [1 favorite]
restless_nomad's move directly influenced my and my partner's decision to look at the northeast in addition to the northwest US when moving out of the east San Francisco Bay Area. Climate change was a factor.
We had to leave California for primarily financial reasons. But a major contributing factor there was that the the only part we could (still not really) afford to live in was extremely hot in the summer and seemed likely to get worse in the future, was more likely to suffer fires, and was frequently plagued by smoke.
We had been opposed to moving (back) somewhere with snow but when we started looking at the big picture for future climate prospects, we realized that we were just going to have to deal with it. Now we're in one of the regions considered among the best for the future. Like restless_nomad, we were also careful about flood zones. We were happy to move somewhere with water but we chose the location of our actual home while operating on more pessimistic assumptions than existing maps used.
Politics and a very constrained job market were also huge factors for us, for the record. But most people I know who are looking at moving now are taking climate change into consideration, as best they can.
posted by wintersweet at 7:21 AM on August 15, 2023 [2 favorites]
We had to leave California for primarily financial reasons. But a major contributing factor there was that the the only part we could (still not really) afford to live in was extremely hot in the summer and seemed likely to get worse in the future, was more likely to suffer fires, and was frequently plagued by smoke.
We had been opposed to moving (back) somewhere with snow but when we started looking at the big picture for future climate prospects, we realized that we were just going to have to deal with it. Now we're in one of the regions considered among the best for the future. Like restless_nomad, we were also careful about flood zones. We were happy to move somewhere with water but we chose the location of our actual home while operating on more pessimistic assumptions than existing maps used.
Politics and a very constrained job market were also huge factors for us, for the record. But most people I know who are looking at moving now are taking climate change into consideration, as best they can.
posted by wintersweet at 7:21 AM on August 15, 2023 [2 favorites]
I lived in Austin TX for five years and climate change was one of the big reasons I left (there were several others too). I really didn't want to be in a place where it was unsafe for a healthy adult to sit outside in the shade. That happened several days a year at the time, happens more now, and will happen even more in coming years. Also the floods are getting worse there as rain patterns change, and this season several climate-change related fires have ripped through the area (currently declared a State of Disaster).
I moved to the midwest, 10/10, would flee the south again.
posted by SaltySalticid at 7:40 AM on August 15, 2023 [1 favorite]
I moved to the midwest, 10/10, would flee the south again.
posted by SaltySalticid at 7:40 AM on August 15, 2023 [1 favorite]
My family has been slowly concentrating ourselves around the Great Lakes over the past 10 years. For the folks who came from California it was explicitly climate-change driven, but it's definitely something the rest of us have considered as we put down roots and get into middle age. Obviously the Great Lakes region won't be untouched, but as phunniemee points out above, we have a lot of built in advantages.
Now, a caveat: most of us are over 40, so to be honest, we are really only worried about the nearish term for climate change -- economics and job markets are our bigger concerns by far. We are hopeful this will continue to be livable space for my niblings, as well, but honestly who can say.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 7:40 AM on August 15, 2023 [5 favorites]
Now, a caveat: most of us are over 40, so to be honest, we are really only worried about the nearish term for climate change -- economics and job markets are our bigger concerns by far. We are hopeful this will continue to be livable space for my niblings, as well, but honestly who can say.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 7:40 AM on August 15, 2023 [5 favorites]
Yes-ish? I have chronic migraine and heat is horrible for my head. I already live in Iowa which generally has cold winters, but the summers are getting hotter, and I've contemplated moving to somewhere like Duluth which is one of the coolest cities in the USA. I don't think I could afford to immigrate to Canada, plus I don't know that they need therapists, but if they'd take me, I'd love to find a nice frigid town to call home.
posted by epj at 7:42 AM on August 15, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by epj at 7:42 AM on August 15, 2023 [2 favorites]
I specifically looked at sea-level increase projections prior to acquiring my current home, choosing a location that was well outside of 100yr expectations. I don't really have to worry about fire in my spot.
When I am able to retire I have already selected a relatively unknown location that is reasonably resilient to natural hazards, has substantial local food access, not really worth fighting over in the traditional senses, and fairly difficult to for asshole American Republicans to gain access to. It has one significant hazard, but the return time on that is measured in millennia so I'm OK with that specific risk (it'll kill me quick if it's gonna).
posted by aramaic at 7:44 AM on August 15, 2023 [2 favorites]
When I am able to retire I have already selected a relatively unknown location that is reasonably resilient to natural hazards, has substantial local food access, not really worth fighting over in the traditional senses, and fairly difficult to for asshole American Republicans to gain access to. It has one significant hazard, but the return time on that is measured in millennia so I'm OK with that specific risk (it'll kill me quick if it's gonna).
posted by aramaic at 7:44 AM on August 15, 2023 [2 favorites]
We left Los Angeles almost a year ago to spend some time in various parts of the country looking for both lower COL and higher climate resilience. We have some friends who aren't as mobile as we're able to be who are piggybacking on our research and also have a slightly unusual career to consider.
We are having a good time with this project and it's allowed us to spend extended time living near scattered friends, but it's also been a mourning period. The weather I want to live in isn't something I can have if I want those other things, and I'm having to come to terms with harder winters than I really prefer to deal with. The places I had hoped would be prime options are as obviously fucked as California is, except with more water. Most places that tick the most boxes are politically more fraught than I'd prefer, but that's also been interesting because people like us are coming in and purpling the place up.
I think the Northeast is probably going to top our rankings and the Great Lakes are a close second, though Colorado is one of the places that would especially accommodate our friends' career needs so it's still in the running.
posted by Lyn Never at 7:57 AM on August 15, 2023 [3 favorites]
We are having a good time with this project and it's allowed us to spend extended time living near scattered friends, but it's also been a mourning period. The weather I want to live in isn't something I can have if I want those other things, and I'm having to come to terms with harder winters than I really prefer to deal with. The places I had hoped would be prime options are as obviously fucked as California is, except with more water. Most places that tick the most boxes are politically more fraught than I'd prefer, but that's also been interesting because people like us are coming in and purpling the place up.
I think the Northeast is probably going to top our rankings and the Great Lakes are a close second, though Colorado is one of the places that would especially accommodate our friends' career needs so it's still in the running.
posted by Lyn Never at 7:57 AM on August 15, 2023 [3 favorites]
I live in New Orleans and planned to retire here, but recently have started putting together a list of places my partner and I might want to go if we decide to give up on this place. South Louisiana is my home, born and raised, but it's getting more and more difficult to stay. Increasing weather events and the resulting increases in insurance are making it hard to justify how much we pay to stay.
Our list isn't very long yet, because we are struggling to figure out where to go. We like dislike winter weather and want a mid-sized city with culture, but once you throw in "also climate change-resilient" the options get pretty limited.
posted by tryniti at 7:59 AM on August 15, 2023 [7 favorites]
Our list isn't very long yet, because we are struggling to figure out where to go. We like dislike winter weather and want a mid-sized city with culture, but once you throw in "also climate change-resilient" the options get pretty limited.
posted by tryniti at 7:59 AM on August 15, 2023 [7 favorites]
I did move, last year, because of climate change. I love New Orleans, where I lived for 11 years, and while climate change wasn't the only thing that pried me outta the city finally, it was the big one. Just too many hurricanes (and in the past couple of years, tornadoes) with no real support from the city or the state before or during or afterwards. I owned my house but I was house-poor and hadn't been able to afford insurance (which was pricey, even before so many insurers bailed) for a few years. So if my house had gotten destroyed I'd have been left with nothing, basically. Summers were always bad, but also getting even more miserable, and this year it's been over 100 for weeks in a row down there. I miss it but I don't regret leaving.
I moved to Pittsburgh PA, which ticks the boxes of being:
climate resilient (it's basically on a plateau and then I moved to one of the higher elevations in the city)
relatively affordable
liberal-ish and in a liberal-ish state
good arts and culture scene
I was always planning on Northeast-ish, but I also knew some people in Pittsburgh and that's one of the reasons I picked it over some of the other places I was considering, like Syracuse or Rochester. I actually like cold weather (though it does get a bit depressing by April) and consider it a fair trade-off for bearable summers. So far I really like it here and I'm glad I moved, and I don't have that pit in my stomach the entirety of hurricane season.
posted by Nibbly Fang at 8:50 AM on August 15, 2023 [9 favorites]
I moved to Pittsburgh PA, which ticks the boxes of being:
climate resilient (it's basically on a plateau and then I moved to one of the higher elevations in the city)
relatively affordable
liberal-ish and in a liberal-ish state
good arts and culture scene
I was always planning on Northeast-ish, but I also knew some people in Pittsburgh and that's one of the reasons I picked it over some of the other places I was considering, like Syracuse or Rochester. I actually like cold weather (though it does get a bit depressing by April) and consider it a fair trade-off for bearable summers. So far I really like it here and I'm glad I moved, and I don't have that pit in my stomach the entirety of hurricane season.
posted by Nibbly Fang at 8:50 AM on August 15, 2023 [9 favorites]
I live in Pittsburgh and stay here for many reasons but one of them is definitely that of the places I'd think about moving to, Pittsburgh seems like a better climate-change bet. But I do wonder a bit about whether I should be moving somewhere else in Pittsburgh, as my home is almost right up on a river and I don't know if I ought to be worrying about flooding at some point beyond the standard Pittsburgh periodic-basement-flood situation.
posted by Stacey at 9:28 AM on August 15, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by Stacey at 9:28 AM on August 15, 2023 [3 favorites]
Well... while our motivation to look for a new place to live was based more on moving back to Australia to be closer to ageing relatives, climate / polycrisis were considerations that helped us narrow down options. Permaculture, futuring and an MSc in sustainability and adaptation helped inform our priorities (eg growing some food but also high regional food security). I am happy to discuss the below in even more detail so memail if you want.
We had pulls that prompted our move, but without that driver i would in hindsight also consider where you currently live as existing community connections are pretty valuable.
Our priorities were regional and then locality / property specific: good current rainfall and proximity to family , coast nearby but not immediate (long term transport priorities), existing civil society, permaculture and Transition Town initiatives, strong community with some people with overlapping interests, establishing friendships, local and regional food production, healthcare and regional services not too far away. More location specific were flood risk and slope of site, walking / cycling distance to town, low BAL (Bushfire attack level) rating, space to grow food, solar access to equator, biodiversity nearby (balanced with fire risk).
Relocating back to Australia meant that certain ways of life were more available to us that may not be available to you. We ended up living near a regional centre rather than a major city but that was primarily financially driven as we didn't want to take on unmanageable debt.
We ended up building new on a 2400m2 subdivided ex-dairy pasture block with great soil but had we found a house in our budget on a smaller established lot we would have also considered it. Our priorities looking at houses were solar access and shading, fire risk, build quality and thermal performance (insulation and thermal mass), outhouses, rainwater tanks, existing food tree plantings and soil health.
The house we ended up building was small (70m2 plus mezzanine), designed to optimise winter and summer sun, mitigates the horrendous winds that our windbreak plantings are not yet grown enough to slow wind down and built with the understanding that a low BAL doesn't remove bushfire risk. We were super happy to get mains electricity, water and sewerage but now have grid agnostic solar and battery, grey water, compost toilet and the first of a couple of large rainwater tanks. We have space to build a second residence eg. To house my mum and stepdad. Food production is slowly increasing as our surprise kid gets bigger and we relearn / unlearn how to grow and understand place. Fresh eggs and chard are pretty good though so that is a good starting point.
We had a bunch of privileges and luck (pre-pandemic building boom, pre-interest rate rises etc) meant that we could make decisions at this level of detail but I think that community and food security were ultimately the non-negotiables for us and had we not moved been something we would have worked on in our previous location.
The book Retrosuburbia by David Holmgren has a real estate assessment tool in the appendices that was invaluable. We had also previously studied permaculture and made a second permaculture design course in this region when relocating was still just an early idea, that helped us develop much better place based knowledge and connect with people who are now important friends.
I also read climate adaptation reports at federal, state and regional levels (this is a good way to get an overview of risks and existing plans for mitigation and adaptation), looked at many different types of maps, spent hours on real estate sites and doing rough sector analysis* of potential properties, talked to potential neighbours and considered our priorities as we aged.
*sector analysis: permaculture design speak for assessing a site for external influences eg sun, wind, slope and rainfall, noise or other pollution, municipal services, community access etc.
posted by pipstar at 9:37 AM on August 15, 2023 [9 favorites]
We had pulls that prompted our move, but without that driver i would in hindsight also consider where you currently live as existing community connections are pretty valuable.
Our priorities were regional and then locality / property specific: good current rainfall and proximity to family , coast nearby but not immediate (long term transport priorities), existing civil society, permaculture and Transition Town initiatives, strong community with some people with overlapping interests, establishing friendships, local and regional food production, healthcare and regional services not too far away. More location specific were flood risk and slope of site, walking / cycling distance to town, low BAL (Bushfire attack level) rating, space to grow food, solar access to equator, biodiversity nearby (balanced with fire risk).
Relocating back to Australia meant that certain ways of life were more available to us that may not be available to you. We ended up living near a regional centre rather than a major city but that was primarily financially driven as we didn't want to take on unmanageable debt.
We ended up building new on a 2400m2 subdivided ex-dairy pasture block with great soil but had we found a house in our budget on a smaller established lot we would have also considered it. Our priorities looking at houses were solar access and shading, fire risk, build quality and thermal performance (insulation and thermal mass), outhouses, rainwater tanks, existing food tree plantings and soil health.
The house we ended up building was small (70m2 plus mezzanine), designed to optimise winter and summer sun, mitigates the horrendous winds that our windbreak plantings are not yet grown enough to slow wind down and built with the understanding that a low BAL doesn't remove bushfire risk. We were super happy to get mains electricity, water and sewerage but now have grid agnostic solar and battery, grey water, compost toilet and the first of a couple of large rainwater tanks. We have space to build a second residence eg. To house my mum and stepdad. Food production is slowly increasing as our surprise kid gets bigger and we relearn / unlearn how to grow and understand place. Fresh eggs and chard are pretty good though so that is a good starting point.
We had a bunch of privileges and luck (pre-pandemic building boom, pre-interest rate rises etc) meant that we could make decisions at this level of detail but I think that community and food security were ultimately the non-negotiables for us and had we not moved been something we would have worked on in our previous location.
The book Retrosuburbia by David Holmgren has a real estate assessment tool in the appendices that was invaluable. We had also previously studied permaculture and made a second permaculture design course in this region when relocating was still just an early idea, that helped us develop much better place based knowledge and connect with people who are now important friends.
I also read climate adaptation reports at federal, state and regional levels (this is a good way to get an overview of risks and existing plans for mitigation and adaptation), looked at many different types of maps, spent hours on real estate sites and doing rough sector analysis* of potential properties, talked to potential neighbours and considered our priorities as we aged.
*sector analysis: permaculture design speak for assessing a site for external influences eg sun, wind, slope and rainfall, noise or other pollution, municipal services, community access etc.
posted by pipstar at 9:37 AM on August 15, 2023 [9 favorites]
I looked into what was predicted change when (if) the Gulf Stream stops running, and the theory was that the temperate west coast rain forest in Canada would become dry and hot, with heat domes and forest fires, while the east coast would turn into a rain forest and be only somewhat hotter than it already is. This is why I opted to stay on the east coast.
I'm not going north where it should be cooler, because there isn't much in the line of topsoil up there, which means food production can't be reasonably increased, even if the temperature rises enough to lengthen the growing season. There's also the matter of hours of sunlight, but the lack of topsoil is the big one.
So far the weather over the last two years is bearing out these predictions. BC on the west coast is about to go into another killer heat wave, and we had two once in a hundred years rain falls in July. I am concerned that the home I live in now will end up periodically cut off by water if things continue to deteriorate fast, but it is on a significant hill, and if things get much worse, supply lines bringing goods to my area will be a bigger issue than maybe having to spend a few weeks a year not easily able to get away from my home to get those supplies.
If sea levels rise the expected two metres or more, I am high enough that I am probably still safe from storm surges... Okay, I am maybe okay with storm surges. Either way, I am wondering how in the world I can get a permanent safe alternative shelter farther inland, and think that (if the weather services are still working and give me any hurricane warnings), I should probably be one of those people who evacuates inland. It's hard to figure out where it might be better inland, as the recent flooding in Nova Scotia shows. My proximity to the ocean means that I get its moderating effect on the weather. It's warmer in winter, and cooler in summer here.
I am not as worried about climate change as I might be, as I am getting old enough that I expect to die of some random treatable age-related condition due to the collapse of medical services caused by supply chain issues, not from being in the wrong location where the weather kills me directly. However, if there is ever a heat dome here, I'll die from the heat, even though I plan to spend it lying on the rock and earth underneath my house. A heatwave like the ones in Texas this summer will kill me, even if I try to find shelter in my cellar. But if we get a heatwave up here, as bad as the ones in Texas and BC, there is no safe place for me to go to. There won't be very many places left where people can survive without a working life support infrastructure to supply heating and cooling. Moreover I will have a duty not to go there and or to claim one of those precious places, because I am fully expendable - I am not capable of contributing to the survival of others or to the protection of the planet.
I have been considering all this for a few decades, and around ten or fifteen years ago I was very anxious, but at this point, as long as I don't read about the details of individual tragedies I am managing equanimity and even schadenfreude. We always knew the heat death of the universe was coming... we just didn't expect to predecease it by quite THAT much.
posted by Jane the Brown at 9:56 AM on August 15, 2023 [5 favorites]
I'm not going north where it should be cooler, because there isn't much in the line of topsoil up there, which means food production can't be reasonably increased, even if the temperature rises enough to lengthen the growing season. There's also the matter of hours of sunlight, but the lack of topsoil is the big one.
So far the weather over the last two years is bearing out these predictions. BC on the west coast is about to go into another killer heat wave, and we had two once in a hundred years rain falls in July. I am concerned that the home I live in now will end up periodically cut off by water if things continue to deteriorate fast, but it is on a significant hill, and if things get much worse, supply lines bringing goods to my area will be a bigger issue than maybe having to spend a few weeks a year not easily able to get away from my home to get those supplies.
If sea levels rise the expected two metres or more, I am high enough that I am probably still safe from storm surges... Okay, I am maybe okay with storm surges. Either way, I am wondering how in the world I can get a permanent safe alternative shelter farther inland, and think that (if the weather services are still working and give me any hurricane warnings), I should probably be one of those people who evacuates inland. It's hard to figure out where it might be better inland, as the recent flooding in Nova Scotia shows. My proximity to the ocean means that I get its moderating effect on the weather. It's warmer in winter, and cooler in summer here.
I am not as worried about climate change as I might be, as I am getting old enough that I expect to die of some random treatable age-related condition due to the collapse of medical services caused by supply chain issues, not from being in the wrong location where the weather kills me directly. However, if there is ever a heat dome here, I'll die from the heat, even though I plan to spend it lying on the rock and earth underneath my house. A heatwave like the ones in Texas this summer will kill me, even if I try to find shelter in my cellar. But if we get a heatwave up here, as bad as the ones in Texas and BC, there is no safe place for me to go to. There won't be very many places left where people can survive without a working life support infrastructure to supply heating and cooling. Moreover I will have a duty not to go there and or to claim one of those precious places, because I am fully expendable - I am not capable of contributing to the survival of others or to the protection of the planet.
I have been considering all this for a few decades, and around ten or fifteen years ago I was very anxious, but at this point, as long as I don't read about the details of individual tragedies I am managing equanimity and even schadenfreude. We always knew the heat death of the universe was coming... we just didn't expect to predecease it by quite THAT much.
posted by Jane the Brown at 9:56 AM on August 15, 2023 [5 favorites]
We live in the Piedmont area of NC and are considering this now. I am basically in cabin fever mode for all of August. It's not just that I am uncomfortable. If I exert myself outside for more than 20 minutes, I get the beginnings of heat exhaustion (chills, dizziness, fatigue).
Some places we are considering: Blacksburg, VA; Cincinnati, OH (only slightly cooler); Asheville, NC; and any places you all mention. I'm intrigued by the idea of Pittsburgh. I'd love Western Mass but the housing prices are probably too high.
I'm in my 50s and I don't know how many more NC summers I can tolerate. It's too bad because this is otherwise a great place for us.
posted by tuesdayschild at 11:27 AM on August 15, 2023 [4 favorites]
Some places we are considering: Blacksburg, VA; Cincinnati, OH (only slightly cooler); Asheville, NC; and any places you all mention. I'm intrigued by the idea of Pittsburgh. I'd love Western Mass but the housing prices are probably too high.
I'm in my 50s and I don't know how many more NC summers I can tolerate. It's too bad because this is otherwise a great place for us.
posted by tuesdayschild at 11:27 AM on August 15, 2023 [4 favorites]
We're looking at a move from central New Jersey in 5 years or so. We're certainly taking climate change into consideration in our discussions of if and where to move. In terms of regions, Oregon and New Mexico would be among our top choices if not for climate change, but it doesn't seem worth risking either. Luckily Vermont and interior New England are in contention, and seem more climate resilient. I'd rank the Upper Midwest highly as well, but my spouse wants to remain somewhat near the ocean.
And has been mentioned, there are local/site specific concerns to keep in mind. I'd avoid any property with the potential to flood, since precipitation events are become more extreme. This includes places that are not within current flood zones. Those will certainly be expanding in many areas. Avoiding significant wind exposure in areas with strong winter or summer storms is probably wise, if it's possible.
posted by mollweide at 11:27 AM on August 15, 2023 [1 favorite]
And has been mentioned, there are local/site specific concerns to keep in mind. I'd avoid any property with the potential to flood, since precipitation events are become more extreme. This includes places that are not within current flood zones. Those will certainly be expanding in many areas. Avoiding significant wind exposure in areas with strong winter or summer storms is probably wise, if it's possible.
posted by mollweide at 11:27 AM on August 15, 2023 [1 favorite]
In 2005 I was finishing my MLIS and looking for somewhat specialized academic librarian jobs in the United States, maybe also Canada. I drew up a map of places I would consider living. Partly due to concerns about my ability to tolerate extreme heat, partly due to concerns about long term natural disasters and water supply, I did not apply to jobs in a dozen or so states that I thought were not good long-term bets. Based on current heat and water supply trends, I believe I chose appropriately. Currently many of those states are also experiencing volatility due to their strong rightward political shift, so not being there wound up a bonus for that reason, too.
posted by cupcakeninja at 11:41 AM on August 15, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by cupcakeninja at 11:41 AM on August 15, 2023 [2 favorites]
I'm in Maine; the Gulf of Maine is heating up faster than most parts of the ocean which is disturbing, to say the least. Our weather patterns have always been wack, now they are more so. We get extreme storms, but not as bad as the southern East Coast, though who knows how that will develop - Norther New England gets ice storms and 10 years ago a series of blizzards that kept up for 2 winters. I kind of wonder when massive wildfires will strike; Maine is wet, but the woods are full of fuel, and the whole state is woods. If I moved, which I don't anticipate, it would be to Colorado, which is beautiful, at elevation so seldom really hot, the Rockies seem likely to provide water, or the Great Lakes, which has a lot of choices. I would not consider anything below the Mason-Dixon line, an arbitrary choice, but the southern US is just getting hot and hotter. Northern California might be a great option and Pittsburgh is a hidden gem. Norther New England is not optimal for growing food, but I hope that's not a defining issue in my lifetime; I'm in my 60s.
I would move to a state that is blue or purple. I am not sanguine about US politics. Republicans are controlled by Extreme Right Extreme Capitalists who will not give up on massive profits. The GOP uses political distractions - abortions, masks, vaccines - and racism, sexism, and other foul divisions to keep their corrupt party alive. I think the US could experience civil war and/or massive unrest when the extremes of Climate Crisis become undeniable to even the most foolish dolts. That could happen next month or in a few years. Sorry to be a Doomer, but I think even more severe political unrest is looming.
Climate Crisis/ Where should we move questions feel like a canary in a coal mine. Listen hard.
posted by theora55 at 12:07 PM on August 15, 2023 [5 favorites]
I would move to a state that is blue or purple. I am not sanguine about US politics. Republicans are controlled by Extreme Right Extreme Capitalists who will not give up on massive profits. The GOP uses political distractions - abortions, masks, vaccines - and racism, sexism, and other foul divisions to keep their corrupt party alive. I think the US could experience civil war and/or massive unrest when the extremes of Climate Crisis become undeniable to even the most foolish dolts. That could happen next month or in a few years. Sorry to be a Doomer, but I think even more severe political unrest is looming.
Climate Crisis/ Where should we move questions feel like a canary in a coal mine. Listen hard.
posted by theora55 at 12:07 PM on August 15, 2023 [5 favorites]
No. I live in north Seattle. We don't have too many climate change related crises. It may be hot here, but that means a handful of days in a row with 90 degree temps, We had an earthquake a decade ago, We are not in a flood zone. Even if Mt. Rainier were to erupt, we would be pretty solid. So we moved to avoid climate change about 35 years ago.
But we are seeing lots of smoke in the past few years. My MIL has lung stuff, and smoke pretty much drove her out of the Rogue Valley in southern Oregon. And Portland where they moved to has had smoke issues.
posted by Windopaene at 12:12 PM on August 15, 2023
But we are seeing lots of smoke in the past few years. My MIL has lung stuff, and smoke pretty much drove her out of the Rogue Valley in southern Oregon. And Portland where they moved to has had smoke issues.
posted by Windopaene at 12:12 PM on August 15, 2023
We're considering a move for other reasons, but climate change expectations play a big part in where we're considering moving. Here are some data sources we've found useful:
Historical Flood Info for specific locations
Historical climate data
Future forecasting
US National Climate Assessment with regional breakdowns
Coastal risk analysis
posted by benbenson at 12:16 PM on August 15, 2023 [8 favorites]
Historical Flood Info for specific locations
Historical climate data
Future forecasting
US National Climate Assessment with regional breakdowns
Coastal risk analysis
posted by benbenson at 12:16 PM on August 15, 2023 [8 favorites]
I’ve considered it but not very seriously. I’m from WNY and I think that area is in a slightly better position re: climate change than my current home in DC but the biggest climate concern we have in DC is heat and so far, we can deal. My husband and I have talked about how to make our home more resilient to potential power outages in the future and are looking into backup power options. Would probably be doing the same thing if we lived in WNY.
posted by kat518 at 1:55 PM on August 15, 2023
posted by kat518 at 1:55 PM on August 15, 2023
Yes, we will be leaving Houston in ten years. We are already looking for land. I have come to love Houston and I hate to give up the fight for turning Texas purple, but the heat is too much. We want our retirement to have an outdoor component in the summers.
posted by BeeDo at 3:24 PM on August 15, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by BeeDo at 3:24 PM on August 15, 2023 [2 favorites]
Climate change was one reason among many that I moved back to the Pacific Northwest. Family was the primary reason, but living somewhere that historically has had milder seasons seemed like a good idea if seasons are going to start getting more extreme everywhere.
posted by Jacqueline at 3:31 PM on August 15, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by Jacqueline at 3:31 PM on August 15, 2023 [1 favorite]
Climate change - and in particular Hurricane Harvey - is why I left Houston. I couldn’t take another few years of floods, tropical storms, snow and ice, and meltingly hot and humid summers, falls, and springs. To be frank, I was just tired about being anxious about the weather all the time.
Where did I move to? Well, I am from and have family in San Diego. I realize that for many people California is the worst off for climate safety so I’ll just note that I have decent confidence in the state and local governments to engage and care, I know how the city is building climate resilience for water, and we haven’t been hit nearly as frequently by the wildfires that other areas have seen. No floods, earthquakes are rare, no likelihood of hurricanes, and a pleasant climate to start meaning we can survive the coming heat potentially. Not a choice for most people but my choice.
So blue state, decent risks, politicos engaged, good relations and connections for the future, and a good job market. That about sums it up.
RiskFactor, if you like that sort of metrics, has a decent summary on options.
posted by librarylis at 4:00 PM on August 15, 2023 [4 favorites]
Where did I move to? Well, I am from and have family in San Diego. I realize that for many people California is the worst off for climate safety so I’ll just note that I have decent confidence in the state and local governments to engage and care, I know how the city is building climate resilience for water, and we haven’t been hit nearly as frequently by the wildfires that other areas have seen. No floods, earthquakes are rare, no likelihood of hurricanes, and a pleasant climate to start meaning we can survive the coming heat potentially. Not a choice for most people but my choice.
So blue state, decent risks, politicos engaged, good relations and connections for the future, and a good job market. That about sums it up.
RiskFactor, if you like that sort of metrics, has a decent summary on options.
posted by librarylis at 4:00 PM on August 15, 2023 [4 favorites]
So climate change (and the shitstorm that the state is now) changed my plans to retire/second career in Florida.
IF I can secure a job that I am interested in, and the organization showing interest follows through, I will relocate from SE NC to NE SC. Sounds crazy right? Except…despite SC being deep red, they actually take emergency management seriously; they have a strong state EM and the coastal cities/counties all have true EM departments. Also, the last major Hurricane to hit that area was Hugo in ‘89. They do not have the infrastructure issues that SE NC has (eastern SC has traditionally been a moneymaker for the state, and they realize that they and the state are very reliant on tourism for $$$, so they actually, like do stuff to maintain the area). COL is much lower, they do not have flooding problems like we do, the coastal zoning restrictions are historically much more strict than NC, and strangely enough the coast is temperate compared to Wilmington. Wilmington is concrete and they have destroyed all of the green space here for expensive apartments, storage units, and car washes. Because to live in an $1800 per month single bedroom
apartment with no garage you have to store your stuff and wash your dirty car. Also, probably money laundering, but we can’t prove it.
I’m not keen on potentially moving to a red state. I am keen on being in a locale that is more physically prepared for the future.
So whilst climate change isn’t *the* driving factor, it has made an impact on my decisions for the future.
posted by sara is disenchanted at 5:20 PM on August 15, 2023 [1 favorite]
IF I can secure a job that I am interested in, and the organization showing interest follows through, I will relocate from SE NC to NE SC. Sounds crazy right? Except…despite SC being deep red, they actually take emergency management seriously; they have a strong state EM and the coastal cities/counties all have true EM departments. Also, the last major Hurricane to hit that area was Hugo in ‘89. They do not have the infrastructure issues that SE NC has (eastern SC has traditionally been a moneymaker for the state, and they realize that they and the state are very reliant on tourism for $$$, so they actually, like do stuff to maintain the area). COL is much lower, they do not have flooding problems like we do, the coastal zoning restrictions are historically much more strict than NC, and strangely enough the coast is temperate compared to Wilmington. Wilmington is concrete and they have destroyed all of the green space here for expensive apartments, storage units, and car washes. Because to live in an $1800 per month single bedroom
apartment with no garage you have to store your stuff and wash your dirty car. Also, probably money laundering, but we can’t prove it.
I’m not keen on potentially moving to a red state. I am keen on being in a locale that is more physically prepared for the future.
So whilst climate change isn’t *the* driving factor, it has made an impact on my decisions for the future.
posted by sara is disenchanted at 5:20 PM on August 15, 2023 [1 favorite]
I am actively considering a move to Chicago because of climate change. Like, 'my lease is up in 6 months, and I'm divesting items to make moving easier' considering.
I currently live in Seattle. And while the heat isn't that bad considering other parts of the country, the wildfire smoke triggers my asthma to where I have to wear a P100 mask when it's smoky out. Which has happened nearly every year, for the past 10 years or so.
Also - I *love* Chicago as a city; I really want to visit it again in a month or so. Seattle has been great for the past little while, but I think I need a change of pace. My family is getting older, nearly all of them live in Wisconsin, and I'd like to be able to visit them more than once a decade.
posted by spinifex23 at 5:21 PM on August 15, 2023 [4 favorites]
I currently live in Seattle. And while the heat isn't that bad considering other parts of the country, the wildfire smoke triggers my asthma to where I have to wear a P100 mask when it's smoky out. Which has happened nearly every year, for the past 10 years or so.
Also - I *love* Chicago as a city; I really want to visit it again in a month or so. Seattle has been great for the past little while, but I think I need a change of pace. My family is getting older, nearly all of them live in Wisconsin, and I'd like to be able to visit them more than once a decade.
posted by spinifex23 at 5:21 PM on August 15, 2023 [4 favorites]
Climate change wasn't the only reason we (spouse, kids and I) moved, but it was a big factor. We moved from southern California to southwestern Ontario after almost a decade of drought and having to evacuate twice in three years due to wildfires. We were renting there, and didn't want to end up saddled with an expensive mortgage on a house we couldn't sell because there was no water left in the state. Here in Ontario, water just magically falls from the sky on a pretty regular basis, and I give silent thanks every single time.
Just as it wasn't the only reason for our departure, climate wasn't the only reason we chose our destination. We moved to be close to my family, for a lower cost of living, and to be in Canada, where we still have at least some notion of a public good that's truly for everybody. But we did look at some website that gave predictions of how climate change would affect different places in the next 50 years or so and found that the Great Lakes region was likely to be a relatively good place to be.
posted by number9dream at 6:20 AM on August 16, 2023 [2 favorites]
Just as it wasn't the only reason for our departure, climate wasn't the only reason we chose our destination. We moved to be close to my family, for a lower cost of living, and to be in Canada, where we still have at least some notion of a public good that's truly for everybody. But we did look at some website that gave predictions of how climate change would affect different places in the next 50 years or so and found that the Great Lakes region was likely to be a relatively good place to be.
posted by number9dream at 6:20 AM on August 16, 2023 [2 favorites]
I’m from Cincinnati and moved back here ten years ago. I have been urging all of my Cincinnati expat friends to move back here while they can still afford property because home prices are skyrocketing. The city is explicitly positioning itself as a climate haven. Although climate change is going to impact everywhere and I don’t like the rhetoric of “climate haven” (climate change is a major aspect of my professional work and no place will be unscathed from it), I certainly feel way more confident about Cincinnati’s future compared with many other places in the United States.
posted by mostly vowels at 7:47 PM on August 17, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by mostly vowels at 7:47 PM on August 17, 2023 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by alchemist at 5:49 AM on August 15, 2023 [1 favorite]