tech career coach recs / career advice
August 10, 2023 3:00 PM Subscribe
I'm trying to figure out how to land a software engineering job in the Bay Area within a short timeframe (~6-9 mo). Can you recommend a tech career coach who can talk through my alternatives, help me make a plan to stick to it, and keep me accountable? Alternatively, tech career advice is very welcome!
Transitioning from CS academia to industry has been tough. I have a CS degree and did 5 years of a (successful) CS PhD, and a couple of FAANG research internships, then decided academia wouldn't be a good fit, wanted to go into industry, left the PhD, did a successful (though brief) stint as a software engineer at a startup, and then the tech industry crashed. On my CV I appear simultaneously overqualified and underqualified - I have 5+ years of experience building research software and leading a tech team in academia, but I only have 3mo of non-internship industry experience. I'm a very smart generalist with some HCI background who is probably a junior-level engineer, and it appears that the job market is looking for specialists right now.
I've worked with a recruiting agency (RC) and have gotten 4 final-round interviews over the last 10 months of interviewing but haven't gotten offers. (The last year I've only been working on this 50% time since I had to deal with other life stuff, but now I'm ready to work on it 100%.) I have no trouble passing leetcode-y technical interviews but feedback has been that I don't have enough production engineering experience (which I can't really fix on my own).
I'm based in the Bay Area. I want to find my next full-time gig within 6 months. Top priorities are:
1) based in the Bay Area (SF/Oakland/Berkeley), NYC, or remote
2) reasonable work-life balance
3) pay >$120k
4) some amount of long-term stability
5) support/mentorship from coworkers
Able to compromise on these priorities as needed. I would be pretty happy doing any full-stack job. In case this is a plus, I have an arts/activist background, but I don't necessarily need it to be reflected in the work.
Current options include: starting a startup, working at a startup, working at a FAANG or AI company, trying to enter a tech-adjacent sector like government/banking/biotech/civic tech, or teaching/tutoring (open to all of these). Within jobs, I also need to pick a specialty, so I picked "frontend-focused fullstack engineer" since my past work involved React + TypeScript. (I think I'm actually very good at people-focused jobs like PM, given my past 5 yrs experience as a tech lead for a team in academia, but I'm unsure about how to get one of those jobs... I would also be down to specialize in something like UI/UX or user research, but that takes time.)
6-9 months is my runway for the Bay Area. After that I need to move somewhere cheaper to cut costs. I would very much like to avoid moving.
Yet another option is: the tech job market is really bad, so should I attempt to do a startup or go back and finish my PhD for 1.5 years (requires moving to another place...) and try to get back on the market when hopefully things are better? I've gotten some positive signal around getting startup funding in the Bay Area, but it doesn't fit with my priorities of having stable work with good WLB...
Can someone recommend a career coach who can work with me to find the next gig, and help me build the skills to get there? I say "coach" because I'm specifically looking for someone who can help me make a plan (identify X skills to work on on Leetcode, reach out to Y people in my network, apply to Z jobs on LinkedIn per week, go to whatever meetups...) as I'm currently dealing with decision fatigue around what to do, and not sure what to prioritize. I can get referrals to more companies, I just don't know when I'm ready to call them in.
Advice here about what to do is also very welcome! I think I'm pretty overqualified for most bootcamps, but maybe there's one that might be a good fit (maybe something like Formation Fellowship)? Sorry this is so complicated.. that's exactly why I need a coach! Willing to pay a reasonable amount per session.
P.S. If anyone else is on the tech job market and wants to form an accountability group, DM me!
Transitioning from CS academia to industry has been tough. I have a CS degree and did 5 years of a (successful) CS PhD, and a couple of FAANG research internships, then decided academia wouldn't be a good fit, wanted to go into industry, left the PhD, did a successful (though brief) stint as a software engineer at a startup, and then the tech industry crashed. On my CV I appear simultaneously overqualified and underqualified - I have 5+ years of experience building research software and leading a tech team in academia, but I only have 3mo of non-internship industry experience. I'm a very smart generalist with some HCI background who is probably a junior-level engineer, and it appears that the job market is looking for specialists right now.
I've worked with a recruiting agency (RC) and have gotten 4 final-round interviews over the last 10 months of interviewing but haven't gotten offers. (The last year I've only been working on this 50% time since I had to deal with other life stuff, but now I'm ready to work on it 100%.) I have no trouble passing leetcode-y technical interviews but feedback has been that I don't have enough production engineering experience (which I can't really fix on my own).
I'm based in the Bay Area. I want to find my next full-time gig within 6 months. Top priorities are:
1) based in the Bay Area (SF/Oakland/Berkeley), NYC, or remote
2) reasonable work-life balance
3) pay >$120k
4) some amount of long-term stability
5) support/mentorship from coworkers
Able to compromise on these priorities as needed. I would be pretty happy doing any full-stack job. In case this is a plus, I have an arts/activist background, but I don't necessarily need it to be reflected in the work.
Current options include: starting a startup, working at a startup, working at a FAANG or AI company, trying to enter a tech-adjacent sector like government/banking/biotech/civic tech, or teaching/tutoring (open to all of these). Within jobs, I also need to pick a specialty, so I picked "frontend-focused fullstack engineer" since my past work involved React + TypeScript. (I think I'm actually very good at people-focused jobs like PM, given my past 5 yrs experience as a tech lead for a team in academia, but I'm unsure about how to get one of those jobs... I would also be down to specialize in something like UI/UX or user research, but that takes time.)
6-9 months is my runway for the Bay Area. After that I need to move somewhere cheaper to cut costs. I would very much like to avoid moving.
Yet another option is: the tech job market is really bad, so should I attempt to do a startup or go back and finish my PhD for 1.5 years (requires moving to another place...) and try to get back on the market when hopefully things are better? I've gotten some positive signal around getting startup funding in the Bay Area, but it doesn't fit with my priorities of having stable work with good WLB...
Can someone recommend a career coach who can work with me to find the next gig, and help me build the skills to get there? I say "coach" because I'm specifically looking for someone who can help me make a plan (identify X skills to work on on Leetcode, reach out to Y people in my network, apply to Z jobs on LinkedIn per week, go to whatever meetups...) as I'm currently dealing with decision fatigue around what to do, and not sure what to prioritize. I can get referrals to more companies, I just don't know when I'm ready to call them in.
Advice here about what to do is also very welcome! I think I'm pretty overqualified for most bootcamps, but maybe there's one that might be a good fit (maybe something like Formation Fellowship)? Sorry this is so complicated.. that's exactly why I need a coach! Willing to pay a reasonable amount per session.
P.S. If anyone else is on the tech job market and wants to form an accountability group, DM me!
Can you tell us anything more about the subfield(s) you studied for your PhD? Figuring out a company/vertical that sees your research area as relevant to the team you would join is probably a better way to find a job than throwing your hat in the ring as a pure generalist right now.
Whatever approach you take, it’s going to be a bit of a numbers game as there are a lot of smart 2024 undergrads going on the market right now, and that’s who you’ll be competing against, at least at larger companies with college recruiting programs.
posted by A Blue Moon at 6:05 PM on August 10, 2023 [2 favorites]
Whatever approach you take, it’s going to be a bit of a numbers game as there are a lot of smart 2024 undergrads going on the market right now, and that’s who you’ll be competing against, at least at larger companies with college recruiting programs.
posted by A Blue Moon at 6:05 PM on August 10, 2023 [2 favorites]
Strongly agree that looking for a company/team that can use the experience you developed during your Ph.D is your best way in. Hopefully you studied something that can be somehow related to one of the current hot subfields. That's how I got into my current role, and the one before that, after quitting a Ph.D ABD. My first job out of school was a bit of a bridge -- it was at a university research lab as full-time, paid staff, and didn't pay great, but was more aligned with things I wanted to do and still benefited from my academic background. After that I was able to use my success there to lean hard into the bits I was actually interested in, which thankfully have aligned with what was hiring.
posted by Alterscape at 6:42 PM on August 10, 2023
posted by Alterscape at 6:42 PM on August 10, 2023
Response by poster: Thanks all. I was in computer graphics / visualization / human-computer interaction (with a little bit of machine learning). The problem is that the kinds of expertise I developed there don't feel particularly relevant to industry, since a lot of the core technical stuff got pretty esoteric at times, but I might be wrong.
posted by Rich Text at 8:39 PM on August 10, 2023
posted by Rich Text at 8:39 PM on August 10, 2023
Best answer: I think you are on the right track, "frontend-focused full-stack engineer" has a specialist area but hints that you are ok with going beyond it. You could pick up a few skills beyond your specialist area to show you have successfully learnt outside of it. With job cuts people now need to wear many hats, but almost none can wear them all and shine at it so you definitely need a focus. You will be expected to work fairly independently at a good pace with good accuracy on your focus, and be able to learn and do items outside of your focus at a slower pace and with more input from others.
What will destroy your chances when applying for an engineer are any hint that you would like to be "people-focused", a PM, UX/UI, researcher or a manager - these jobs want an engineer, not someone who wants to get in as an engineer and move away from it as quickly as they can, either because they struggle to advance technically or prefer non-technical/different work. If they wanted a non-technical person then they would hire one. I think you have a good shot at junior engineer if you stay focused on just that (else change focus and take PM courses etc and apply for that instead).
Another tip is to not emphasize the support/training, especially do not look panicky when you ask about it or delve deep into it, that makes them nervous about your learning skills and won't actually give you any idea about how things there actually are. You will likely be assigned a mentor and given training materials, and you will be expected to hit the ground running. Some places are good with support, others are not - if its a brutal place where you get zero support you can quit quickly and not list it on your resume, if its horrid but survivable then you can get your 2-3 years for resume and then go elsewhere. Work-life balance is also a touchy topic - I think one question asking about it is fine, but digging into it will make you seem like you want to slack off.
And stability in the tech world, that's very rare!
Your other problem is coming from academia, which is actually worse than just being a new college grad or from boot camp because you have now worked in a completely different system with different rules etc vs needing to just learn a system. You will have assumptions instead of gaps and this might make things tough. You will have to think carefully about how you present your experience, your skills, yourself. I think its hard, but possible.
If you have not been practicing interviewing with someone who knows the industry then you need to, it sounds like you do well on technical but not so well on non-technical and what they are looking for is very narrow, you could remove yourself from consideration with one bad comment or question.
The tech company world is mostly brutal, very high-paying and will burn you up and spit you out. Some of the companies only want you for 3-5 years, because after that you will be spent. If you are female or diverse (I don't know if you are or not) you will be subject to additional torture on all fronts. There are a few jobs and places where things are better, but I would not do it again if I were to start all over.
Good luck!
posted by meepmeow at 1:00 AM on August 11, 2023 [2 favorites]
What will destroy your chances when applying for an engineer are any hint that you would like to be "people-focused", a PM, UX/UI, researcher or a manager - these jobs want an engineer, not someone who wants to get in as an engineer and move away from it as quickly as they can, either because they struggle to advance technically or prefer non-technical/different work. If they wanted a non-technical person then they would hire one. I think you have a good shot at junior engineer if you stay focused on just that (else change focus and take PM courses etc and apply for that instead).
Another tip is to not emphasize the support/training, especially do not look panicky when you ask about it or delve deep into it, that makes them nervous about your learning skills and won't actually give you any idea about how things there actually are. You will likely be assigned a mentor and given training materials, and you will be expected to hit the ground running. Some places are good with support, others are not - if its a brutal place where you get zero support you can quit quickly and not list it on your resume, if its horrid but survivable then you can get your 2-3 years for resume and then go elsewhere. Work-life balance is also a touchy topic - I think one question asking about it is fine, but digging into it will make you seem like you want to slack off.
And stability in the tech world, that's very rare!
Your other problem is coming from academia, which is actually worse than just being a new college grad or from boot camp because you have now worked in a completely different system with different rules etc vs needing to just learn a system. You will have assumptions instead of gaps and this might make things tough. You will have to think carefully about how you present your experience, your skills, yourself. I think its hard, but possible.
If you have not been practicing interviewing with someone who knows the industry then you need to, it sounds like you do well on technical but not so well on non-technical and what they are looking for is very narrow, you could remove yourself from consideration with one bad comment or question.
The tech company world is mostly brutal, very high-paying and will burn you up and spit you out. Some of the companies only want you for 3-5 years, because after that you will be spent. If you are female or diverse (I don't know if you are or not) you will be subject to additional torture on all fronts. There are a few jobs and places where things are better, but I would not do it again if I were to start all over.
Good luck!
posted by meepmeow at 1:00 AM on August 11, 2023 [2 favorites]
I think with your background it would be good to look at enterprise data analytics plays (Tableau, Databricks, anything in the right part of one of these charts that hasn’t done layoffs) as that would align with data viz + full stack tech interest.
If your graphics + a bit of ML background means that you’ve done 3D stuff and good at linear algebra and relevant types of calculus, there are probably hedge fund/investment type jobs that would love you as well as more specialized AR/VR graphics teams within larger companies and possibly GIS companies. I’m also pretty sure that Roblox is hiring right now. You would be surprised how many software engineers cannot do computational geometry type stuff if it’s something you take for granted given your background.
Generally I wouldn’t try to rush the top AI/ML companies because they’re probably drowning in applicants right now, and even before the current rush it was notoriously difficult to actually work on AI/ML without the right PhD. What was/probably still is very possible is to be a data engineer or infrastructure/data platform engineer for the ML folks, but that doesn’t seem to align well with your interests.
You can memail me if you want to brainstorm more - I am not a career coach but I am an engineer who used to be a hiring manager for primarily first job out of college engineers.
posted by A Blue Moon at 6:09 AM on August 11, 2023
If your graphics + a bit of ML background means that you’ve done 3D stuff and good at linear algebra and relevant types of calculus, there are probably hedge fund/investment type jobs that would love you as well as more specialized AR/VR graphics teams within larger companies and possibly GIS companies. I’m also pretty sure that Roblox is hiring right now. You would be surprised how many software engineers cannot do computational geometry type stuff if it’s something you take for granted given your background.
Generally I wouldn’t try to rush the top AI/ML companies because they’re probably drowning in applicants right now, and even before the current rush it was notoriously difficult to actually work on AI/ML without the right PhD. What was/probably still is very possible is to be a data engineer or infrastructure/data platform engineer for the ML folks, but that doesn’t seem to align well with your interests.
You can memail me if you want to brainstorm more - I am not a career coach but I am an engineer who used to be a hiring manager for primarily first job out of college engineers.
posted by A Blue Moon at 6:09 AM on August 11, 2023
Best answer: I think it's challenging because you are an entry-level candidate trying to get hired off-cycle and not straight out of school. Most companies with good "work life balance" don't hire people with degrees but no significant work experience outside of specific windows of time. If you know someone at a big company who knows a team that is hiring someone with your skillset and can put you into the system, you might get hired that way, but otherwise I would guess you're competing for the same spots that are reserved for new grads out of undergrad and master's programs and that cycle is starting for next year now, not for immediate hiring. Plus, those roles have been cut at a lot of companies due to the current economic situation.
I would either go back to school and try to finish the PhD, or look at startups and be a bit less up-front about your work/life balance desires, and generally be more flexible. I do think you should be able to find a job that makes the amount of money you want in the area you want to live in with your skill set, and you will inevitably learn some things just from the act of being full-time employed as an engineer. You're at the point in your career where it's too soon to worry about long-term stability, you haven't worked for long enough to even know what would make you happy long-term. And I'd encourage you to figure out how to carve out work-life balance yourself, don't expect your employer to just give it for you. Setting your own work boundaries and being willing to deal with the consequences is a good life skill if you want to be in tech.
Do not go to a bootcamp. I cannot imagine why you would waste your time or money doing that. You are already qualified to have a job in tech, you just need to get out there and keep interviewing until you find one. Good luck but seriously I think you will be fine, just don't tie yourself in knots trying to over-optimize your next job. It's one step in a long journey, and the most important thing is that you find a step to take not that it is perfect.
posted by ch1x0r at 3:48 PM on August 11, 2023 [1 favorite]
I would either go back to school and try to finish the PhD, or look at startups and be a bit less up-front about your work/life balance desires, and generally be more flexible. I do think you should be able to find a job that makes the amount of money you want in the area you want to live in with your skill set, and you will inevitably learn some things just from the act of being full-time employed as an engineer. You're at the point in your career where it's too soon to worry about long-term stability, you haven't worked for long enough to even know what would make you happy long-term. And I'd encourage you to figure out how to carve out work-life balance yourself, don't expect your employer to just give it for you. Setting your own work boundaries and being willing to deal with the consequences is a good life skill if you want to be in tech.
Do not go to a bootcamp. I cannot imagine why you would waste your time or money doing that. You are already qualified to have a job in tech, you just need to get out there and keep interviewing until you find one. Good luck but seriously I think you will be fine, just don't tie yourself in knots trying to over-optimize your next job. It's one step in a long journey, and the most important thing is that you find a step to take not that it is perfect.
posted by ch1x0r at 3:48 PM on August 11, 2023 [1 favorite]
There's an org called "Recurse Center" you should check out. It's sometimes grouped in with bootcamps but it's not. It's more like an artist retreat for engineers.
You are basically just free to work on your own projects surrounded by interesting engineers who you can collaborate with as much or as little as you want. Most people there are professional software developers on a break, and they're all doing something weird and cool.
It's free and used to be in person in New York, but I'm not sure now. They also have a lot of relationships with companies and have great career support. It's an amazing community.
posted by mwahlalala at 10:43 AM on August 12, 2023 [2 favorites]
You are basically just free to work on your own projects surrounded by interesting engineers who you can collaborate with as much or as little as you want. Most people there are professional software developers on a break, and they're all doing something weird and cool.
It's free and used to be in person in New York, but I'm not sure now. They also have a lot of relationships with companies and have great career support. It's an amazing community.
posted by mwahlalala at 10:43 AM on August 12, 2023 [2 favorites]
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