Two questions in one
August 9, 2023 7:04 AM Subscribe
I apologize in advance, but the questions are related, I promise.
I've been working within the same team for the past 8 years, with incremental rise in seniority (not really always matched with increase in pay, but job is already well-paid and secure so this is less of a quibble). To say the team is under-resourced and overworked is an understatement - people burn out and flee in 3-4 years. It's kinda infamous within the company. The role is very visible, the margin of error is wafer thin, and my boss is incompetent, vacillating, and incapable of taking quick decisions in scenarios that absolutely need them. So yes, dragging myself to work (it's WFO) is a hoot and a half every morning. Why do I not try to get out, you ask? An excellent question.
The longer I stay, the harder it gets to leave, because it's a team that strives on knowledge based on precedent and experience. I'm currently handling a full workload, mentoring my junior team members and constantly clarifying stuff for my superiors. Vacations are always interrupted. This job has wrecked my health, my sleep, contributed a large part to my intense anxiety issues, and often left no headspace to deal with personal relationships or cultivate a life outside of it. It's also given exceptional healthcare for me and my family, and a very generous paycheck. So you know, there's that. I don't want to quit the job itself, I just need to change my team. It's a large company - this is tricky to do but not impossible and usually happens on its own in a few years except the team and superiors are holding on to me like an octopus (Octopi?).
I am absolutely miserable and exhausted. I complain regularly to all and sundry about the situation, but the actual, concrete steps that I need to take? File a request? Take it up with HR? Set a date for exit with my superior? I find myself dithering. There was initially a good reason for putting it on hold, but now there isn't one. My family (including a terminal parent) and partner are in a different city and I can make a very good case for a geographical move. Why am I being so ambivalent about this? How can I stop being ambivalent? I really need to do this before I have panic attack myself into oblivion. I desperately need to start working towards an exit plan,and I cannot understand for the life of me why just starting with it is so hard (fwiw superiors know I'm miserable and make noises about transitioning me out but bupkis about actual steps - I suspect I'll need to take formal action for them to actually take me seriously).
The other question is, even with the best case scenario, the move cannot and will not be immediate - the process of knowledge transfer/training up a replacement is onerous and will take a couple of months (and that's after someone joins!). In the meanwhile, I am not handling it well. What I need is a way to vent about the job and its ridiculous challenges and the sucky coworkers and superiors, either explicitly and implicitly. Surely I'm not the only one who has/had a toxic job. How do you cope? What do you do after the end of a bad workday (all workdays being bad heh). Eating or drinking my feelings away is not an option.
All suggestions welcome. This situation is just fundamentally unsustainable.
The longer I stay, the harder it gets to leave, because it's a team that strives on knowledge based on precedent and experience. I'm currently handling a full workload, mentoring my junior team members and constantly clarifying stuff for my superiors. Vacations are always interrupted. This job has wrecked my health, my sleep, contributed a large part to my intense anxiety issues, and often left no headspace to deal with personal relationships or cultivate a life outside of it. It's also given exceptional healthcare for me and my family, and a very generous paycheck. So you know, there's that. I don't want to quit the job itself, I just need to change my team. It's a large company - this is tricky to do but not impossible and usually happens on its own in a few years except the team and superiors are holding on to me like an octopus (Octopi?).
I am absolutely miserable and exhausted. I complain regularly to all and sundry about the situation, but the actual, concrete steps that I need to take? File a request? Take it up with HR? Set a date for exit with my superior? I find myself dithering. There was initially a good reason for putting it on hold, but now there isn't one. My family (including a terminal parent) and partner are in a different city and I can make a very good case for a geographical move. Why am I being so ambivalent about this? How can I stop being ambivalent? I really need to do this before I have panic attack myself into oblivion. I desperately need to start working towards an exit plan,and I cannot understand for the life of me why just starting with it is so hard (fwiw superiors know I'm miserable and make noises about transitioning me out but bupkis about actual steps - I suspect I'll need to take formal action for them to actually take me seriously).
The other question is, even with the best case scenario, the move cannot and will not be immediate - the process of knowledge transfer/training up a replacement is onerous and will take a couple of months (and that's after someone joins!). In the meanwhile, I am not handling it well. What I need is a way to vent about the job and its ridiculous challenges and the sucky coworkers and superiors, either explicitly and implicitly. Surely I'm not the only one who has/had a toxic job. How do you cope? What do you do after the end of a bad workday (all workdays being bad heh). Eating or drinking my feelings away is not an option.
All suggestions welcome. This situation is just fundamentally unsustainable.
Response by poster: That's correct - I meant the harder it becomes for the team to let me go. I want to leave now. Yesterday, if possible. Last year would've been even better. Etc.
posted by Nieshka at 7:13 AM on August 9, 2023
posted by Nieshka at 7:13 AM on August 9, 2023
Yeah, you're describing problems FOR THE ORGANIZATION, not for YOU. You can just leave any time. The fact that the knowledge transfer would take months? Not your problem! You can give your two weeks notice and go with a clear conscience.
OK, so, why *do* you stay? Are you in therapy, and do you talk about work and your ambivalence about your job in therapy? If the answer to either of those questions is "no" I'd recommend making it "yes."
Here are three possible guesses from me, a stranger, about why you might be staying (they're not mutually exclusive):
- You feel comfortable with the chaos and overwork because it's a familiar pattern (albeit not a healthy one, as you recognize)
- Being so busy with work lets you avoid other stuff you don't want to deal with
- You kinda like feeling important and irreplaceable?
If you can figure out what staying in this toxic situation is doing for you, hopefully you can get away from your ambivalence about it.
And as for what do you can do after a toxic workday? In your shoes, I'd spend at least some of the time looking for a less-toxic job. Venting and complaining about your job is effectively spending more time on the job!
Just get out. Focus your energy there. Let things drop if need be. You're not going to get any help from the company, this has to come from you.
posted by mskyle at 7:27 AM on August 9, 2023 [17 favorites]
OK, so, why *do* you stay? Are you in therapy, and do you talk about work and your ambivalence about your job in therapy? If the answer to either of those questions is "no" I'd recommend making it "yes."
Here are three possible guesses from me, a stranger, about why you might be staying (they're not mutually exclusive):
- You feel comfortable with the chaos and overwork because it's a familiar pattern (albeit not a healthy one, as you recognize)
- Being so busy with work lets you avoid other stuff you don't want to deal with
- You kinda like feeling important and irreplaceable?
If you can figure out what staying in this toxic situation is doing for you, hopefully you can get away from your ambivalence about it.
And as for what do you can do after a toxic workday? In your shoes, I'd spend at least some of the time looking for a less-toxic job. Venting and complaining about your job is effectively spending more time on the job!
Just get out. Focus your energy there. Let things drop if need be. You're not going to get any help from the company, this has to come from you.
posted by mskyle at 7:27 AM on August 9, 2023 [17 favorites]
Are you afraid that if you make official noise, you'll need to threaten to quit the job entirely?
Very sorry to hear about your parent. Do they need enough support that you would benefit from taking family leave (assuming that is an option for you)? You might find that a break would serve two purposes here.
posted by eirias at 7:37 AM on August 9, 2023 [2 favorites]
Very sorry to hear about your parent. Do they need enough support that you would benefit from taking family leave (assuming that is an option for you)? You might find that a break would serve two purposes here.
posted by eirias at 7:37 AM on August 9, 2023 [2 favorites]
It's normal to have difficulty initiating a transfer because while your life would become drastically better in a few months, it would be worse during the next few months. It sounds like your departure would be tough for your team, and they'll express dismay over it. That means you have to deal with draining conversations while you train up a replacement on top of your heavy workload.
The happy future is abstract to you, whereas the crappy few months are concrete. You can vividly imagine what your coworkers might say about your departure, and the annoying paperwork you'll need to do.
It's like moving to a better house. We know we'll be happier once we are there, but most of us procrastinate the process of packing and unpacking boxes.
One technique is to make the happy future more concrete. What does that office look like? What would your commute be? Look up photos of some people you'd be working with.
posted by sandwich at 7:44 AM on August 9, 2023 [12 favorites]
The happy future is abstract to you, whereas the crappy few months are concrete. You can vividly imagine what your coworkers might say about your departure, and the annoying paperwork you'll need to do.
It's like moving to a better house. We know we'll be happier once we are there, but most of us procrastinate the process of packing and unpacking boxes.
One technique is to make the happy future more concrete. What does that office look like? What would your commute be? Look up photos of some people you'd be working with.
posted by sandwich at 7:44 AM on August 9, 2023 [12 favorites]
My predecessor was very valued and responsible in her role and burned out. It’s taken two people to replace her because of all her institutional knowledge and it’s been hard for the team but c’est la vie. We are in touch and she is so much happier and planning a career change after a deserved break.
Your company will survive. They’ll have to replace you with several people probably and reassess the project or role. Give notice.
If you like the company and it’s big enough, you can consider moving to a brand new team/division but honestly - quit. Quit yesterday. You and your family will be better.
posted by dorothyisunderwood at 7:57 AM on August 9, 2023 [4 favorites]
Your company will survive. They’ll have to replace you with several people probably and reassess the project or role. Give notice.
If you like the company and it’s big enough, you can consider moving to a brand new team/division but honestly - quit. Quit yesterday. You and your family will be better.
posted by dorothyisunderwood at 7:57 AM on August 9, 2023 [4 favorites]
Your company is fine with you burning out and leaving. They have shown you this, told you this, apparently are proud of it. They want you to leave, and the rest of the team. (Which they should do, they should also leave.) The company will have to absorb any trouble this causes, and that is fine because that's what they want to do.
Or they would do something else.
Maybe you quitting will be the wake-up call they require. Probably not, as they don't care, but you staying is certainly not fixing anything. You can't save the company from itself.
You're not ambivalent, you're just traumatized and stuck. You're overinflating your value to the company - I don't tell you this because I think you're not valuable, but because they don't think you're valuable. How much more of that are you seriously going to tell yourself you're obligated to take?
Are you a pediatric oncologist? Are you currently in charge of some life-support function on the ISS? How many people do you estimate will die as a result of the disruption of your leaving?
If that number is 0, go put in your two weeks' notice right now. "Dear manager, I will be leaving Workplace effective 8/23 to move on to new opportunities. I'll put a meeting on your calendar shortly to discuss KT and handoff. Regards, yourname" If the death toll will be higher, add another two weeks to your notice period so you have time for more KT and handoff.
Don't be surprised if they walk you out immediately, so you might want to take a box of stuff home tonight and then quit tomorrow morning.
posted by Lyn Never at 8:28 AM on August 9, 2023 [9 favorites]
Or they would do something else.
Maybe you quitting will be the wake-up call they require. Probably not, as they don't care, but you staying is certainly not fixing anything. You can't save the company from itself.
You're not ambivalent, you're just traumatized and stuck. You're overinflating your value to the company - I don't tell you this because I think you're not valuable, but because they don't think you're valuable. How much more of that are you seriously going to tell yourself you're obligated to take?
Are you a pediatric oncologist? Are you currently in charge of some life-support function on the ISS? How many people do you estimate will die as a result of the disruption of your leaving?
If that number is 0, go put in your two weeks' notice right now. "Dear manager, I will be leaving Workplace effective 8/23 to move on to new opportunities. I'll put a meeting on your calendar shortly to discuss KT and handoff. Regards, yourname" If the death toll will be higher, add another two weeks to your notice period so you have time for more KT and handoff.
Don't be surprised if they walk you out immediately, so you might want to take a box of stuff home tonight and then quit tomorrow morning.
posted by Lyn Never at 8:28 AM on August 9, 2023 [9 favorites]
To say the team is under-resourced and overworked is an understatement - people burn out and flee in 3-4 years.
I think you are missing the possibility that your employers have deliberately chosen to create this environment.
Having an average tenure of 3-4 years is not all that bad. I don't know what business you're in, but if you're in the USA, that's exactly in line with median tenure broadly across the country. Getting a lot of work out of one employee is often cost-effective. Yes, they may have to replace that employee every 4 years. Yes, it may take take "a couple months" to find someone new. But let's say you just randomly quit and it takes a year for hire someone new and have them figure out your job. Say they stay 3 years after that (4 years total). They just paid for 12 years of work between the two of you, and got the job covered effectively for 11 of those years. If they had two people, they would have the job covered for 12 of those 12 years - but their costs would double.
Your employer, in general, doesn't care how long you work at the company, or how sane you are, or how your personal life works, or how much time you're able to spend with friends. They care about getting work out of people in a relatively cost-effective way. Often, that means that companies don't plan for employees being around indefinitely.
Such a company is telling you what they value. You should act based on what you value. You will not change such a company.
posted by saeculorum at 8:42 AM on August 9, 2023 [7 favorites]
I think you are missing the possibility that your employers have deliberately chosen to create this environment.
Having an average tenure of 3-4 years is not all that bad. I don't know what business you're in, but if you're in the USA, that's exactly in line with median tenure broadly across the country. Getting a lot of work out of one employee is often cost-effective. Yes, they may have to replace that employee every 4 years. Yes, it may take take "a couple months" to find someone new. But let's say you just randomly quit and it takes a year for hire someone new and have them figure out your job. Say they stay 3 years after that (4 years total). They just paid for 12 years of work between the two of you, and got the job covered effectively for 11 of those years. If they had two people, they would have the job covered for 12 of those 12 years - but their costs would double.
Your employer, in general, doesn't care how long you work at the company, or how sane you are, or how your personal life works, or how much time you're able to spend with friends. They care about getting work out of people in a relatively cost-effective way. Often, that means that companies don't plan for employees being around indefinitely.
Such a company is telling you what they value. You should act based on what you value. You will not change such a company.
posted by saeculorum at 8:42 AM on August 9, 2023 [7 favorites]
I have only two things to add to the chorus of wise voices.
(1) Work will not draw a line under how much it will take from you. It will take as much as you give and demand more. You will never work long or hard enough to satiate this monster. That is because your job is at a fundamentally broken organisation. Working late into the night will not fix a place that's broken.
(2) Maybe part of you is frightened of change because change is hard? I'm in a new job after many years of working somewhere where I was in a similar lynchpin kind of role. Transition... has been tough! Being new is not easy. I was working extremely hard at my old role but I was knowledgeable and competent and giving up that feeling of confidence, of knowing what I'm doing, of knowing my value is being proved every day, in favour of coming into the office not really knowing anything and conscious that no one knows me and I haven't proved myself, all that is hard. It's worth doing and I have no regrets, but I had a real fear of this, and it has proved to be challenging. So that could be part of why you're feeling paralysed and it's worth sitting with that feeling and acknowledging it and working through it.
posted by unicorn chaser at 9:08 AM on August 9, 2023 [7 favorites]
(1) Work will not draw a line under how much it will take from you. It will take as much as you give and demand more. You will never work long or hard enough to satiate this monster. That is because your job is at a fundamentally broken organisation. Working late into the night will not fix a place that's broken.
(2) Maybe part of you is frightened of change because change is hard? I'm in a new job after many years of working somewhere where I was in a similar lynchpin kind of role. Transition... has been tough! Being new is not easy. I was working extremely hard at my old role but I was knowledgeable and competent and giving up that feeling of confidence, of knowing what I'm doing, of knowing my value is being proved every day, in favour of coming into the office not really knowing anything and conscious that no one knows me and I haven't proved myself, all that is hard. It's worth doing and I have no regrets, but I had a real fear of this, and it has proved to be challenging. So that could be part of why you're feeling paralysed and it's worth sitting with that feeling and acknowledging it and working through it.
posted by unicorn chaser at 9:08 AM on August 9, 2023 [7 favorites]
Response by poster: I grew up facing extremely high expectations, and tasked with responsibilities much beyond my years and control, and feeling like a failure when I couldn't manage. I'm used to privileging everyone's needs over my own. I recognize how ridiculous this is, but old habits die hard.
posted by Nieshka at 9:10 AM on August 9, 2023 [12 favorites]
posted by Nieshka at 9:10 AM on August 9, 2023 [12 favorites]
You can manage, you've been managing. You no longer enjoy it and want to do something else. That's not a failure in any way.
posted by Iteki at 9:23 AM on August 9, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by Iteki at 9:23 AM on August 9, 2023 [1 favorite]
You're just going to have to give your employer a friendly ultimatum: For your own well-being, you need to offload some of your responsibilities and workload... and if they can't accommodate you on that, you'll have to go elsewhere.
You are in the dominant position in this conversation -- because, as you've let them know, you can just walk if they won't accommodate you -- and you should act like it. You can and should be friendly, but not apologetic, and should not back down. Repeat your ultimatum until they accept that this is the new reality. It may feel painful and rude and make you cringe, but you gotta stick with it.
You should have a very clear plan about what responsibilities you're going to be offloading, and have a very clear, non-negotiable timeline about how that's going to happen. If it involves training someone else to handle some of the work, so be it. But don't let them drag it out and say "Just keep doing X, Y, and Z for another month, or two, or three -- it's an emergency!" They'll keep the "emergency" going indefinitely if you'll indulge them.
So: "I'm happy to help train other team members in taking on some of these responsibilities, but we're going to need to have a clearly defined transitional period, after which they will no longer be on my plate. I think one month should be adequate." And when the transitional period is over, do not step into the breach if the job isn't getting done properly. It is no longer your problem! If you rush in and put out the fire, you'll just be telling them that you're going to keep doing what you've always done.
You may also need to put hard boundaries around how many hours you'll work in the week. Stick to those boundaries religiously, even if, at the end of the day or the end of the week, you're itching to answer a few more emails or complete a few more tasks. They can wait. It's not your life, it's just your job. Ultimately, these aren't your problems, they're your employers' problems.
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 9:25 AM on August 9, 2023 [4 favorites]
You are in the dominant position in this conversation -- because, as you've let them know, you can just walk if they won't accommodate you -- and you should act like it. You can and should be friendly, but not apologetic, and should not back down. Repeat your ultimatum until they accept that this is the new reality. It may feel painful and rude and make you cringe, but you gotta stick with it.
You should have a very clear plan about what responsibilities you're going to be offloading, and have a very clear, non-negotiable timeline about how that's going to happen. If it involves training someone else to handle some of the work, so be it. But don't let them drag it out and say "Just keep doing X, Y, and Z for another month, or two, or three -- it's an emergency!" They'll keep the "emergency" going indefinitely if you'll indulge them.
So: "I'm happy to help train other team members in taking on some of these responsibilities, but we're going to need to have a clearly defined transitional period, after which they will no longer be on my plate. I think one month should be adequate." And when the transitional period is over, do not step into the breach if the job isn't getting done properly. It is no longer your problem! If you rush in and put out the fire, you'll just be telling them that you're going to keep doing what you've always done.
You may also need to put hard boundaries around how many hours you'll work in the week. Stick to those boundaries religiously, even if, at the end of the day or the end of the week, you're itching to answer a few more emails or complete a few more tasks. They can wait. It's not your life, it's just your job. Ultimately, these aren't your problems, they're your employers' problems.
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 9:25 AM on August 9, 2023 [4 favorites]
Real winners quit situations where they can't win, and leave to find ones they can.
posted by seanmpuckett at 9:28 AM on August 9, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by seanmpuckett at 9:28 AM on August 9, 2023 [4 favorites]
Vacations are always interrupted. This job has wrecked my health, my sleep, contributed a large part to my intense anxiety issues, and often left no headspace to deal with personal relationships or cultivate a life outside of it.
It's not just the manager and the division you're in. The company tolerates and enables your manager and the toxic culture. The company may even encourage it. What happens if you start over in another division with another manager--and it's the same toxic setup? This company is wrecking every part of your life.
I grew up facing extremely high expectations
Allow me to reframe this: Your expectations for yourself are too low. You'd never advise a loved one to stick it out in an environment wrecking their lives and relationships. Raise your expectations for yourself and your work situation. You don't have to put up with this. You have a responsibility to yourself and your loved ones to take better care of yourself by abandoning this toxic setup on your own timeline, not the company's timeline.
posted by ImproviseOrDie at 9:49 AM on August 9, 2023 [11 favorites]
It's not just the manager and the division you're in. The company tolerates and enables your manager and the toxic culture. The company may even encourage it. What happens if you start over in another division with another manager--and it's the same toxic setup? This company is wrecking every part of your life.
I grew up facing extremely high expectations
Allow me to reframe this: Your expectations for yourself are too low. You'd never advise a loved one to stick it out in an environment wrecking their lives and relationships. Raise your expectations for yourself and your work situation. You don't have to put up with this. You have a responsibility to yourself and your loved ones to take better care of yourself by abandoning this toxic setup on your own timeline, not the company's timeline.
posted by ImproviseOrDie at 9:49 AM on August 9, 2023 [11 favorites]
As the queen of bad job survival: it's a "devil you know rather than the devil you don't" sort of thing. Also as someone else pointed out, you know it's guaranteed several months of more hell before things may get better. I know I have issues working on leaving because it's all stick and no carrot (I don't actually want any jobs I see) and job hunting only makes me feel worse when I already feel awful. You may not want to pick fights at work and make it worse either.
What do I do after work? Cry, drink, cry, feel bad a lot. It helps if I have something else more entertaining to do after work or some reason that I have to stay sober/drive/leave the house. If I can distract myself, that's the better choice.
posted by jenfullmoon at 10:44 AM on August 9, 2023 [1 favorite]
What do I do after work? Cry, drink, cry, feel bad a lot. It helps if I have something else more entertaining to do after work or some reason that I have to stay sober/drive/leave the house. If I can distract myself, that's the better choice.
posted by jenfullmoon at 10:44 AM on August 9, 2023 [1 favorite]
I find journaling helps me process my feelings when I’m feeling stuck - a specific kind of journaling that I call “scribble journaling”. It is hand written, never re-read , in a cheap composition notebook and destroyed when the book is full. It is just about getting feelings out and down on paper.
Perhaps something like that would give you room to vent?
Oh and I read something - here, probably -someone mentioned they were self-medicating with work anxiety. I saw myself in that comment and realized I was making a challenging situation harder for myself by ramping up the stakes so I didn’t have to deal with some other stuff that was going on.
Take good care - you deserve good things.
posted by hilaryjade at 1:12 PM on August 9, 2023 [1 favorite]
Perhaps something like that would give you room to vent?
Oh and I read something - here, probably -someone mentioned they were self-medicating with work anxiety. I saw myself in that comment and realized I was making a challenging situation harder for myself by ramping up the stakes so I didn’t have to deal with some other stuff that was going on.
Take good care - you deserve good things.
posted by hilaryjade at 1:12 PM on August 9, 2023 [1 favorite]
I'm not saying this is the case and you certainly don't need to answer this, but is there part of you that doesn't want to move to be closer to your partner and parent? It would be understandable to have fear or reluctance about such a big change. Sometimes we stay in not-great situations because we are avoiding something else, even if not consciously.
Also, sometimes we get stuck in our ambivalence, almost like we are hooked on it, or in a rut. Being unhappy and the associated behaviors (complaining a lot, for example) can become a habit.
Also, I want to express this with kindness, but also to offer you a bit of reassurance. I have been in jobs that have relatively good pay and benefits in a competitive industry, where folks seem to stay well into being miserable and hating. Even when I've liked those folks, and even when they've contributed a lot and done good work -- it's always a bit of a relief when the unhappy people leave. It's really hard to have chronically unhappy coworkers, and the misery does become self-perpetuating in the bigger organization.
Is it possible that your bosses aren't doing anything to change the situation because they aren't convinced another situation would be better, and they are trying to gently shoo you out the door? If you are really complaining all the time to everyone, well, that's really taking a toll on them, even as you are contributing in other ways.
Which is to say: even though they like have you there, it'll also be better for them when your unhappiness is gone, you know?
posted by bluedaisy at 1:39 PM on August 9, 2023 [1 favorite]
Also, sometimes we get stuck in our ambivalence, almost like we are hooked on it, or in a rut. Being unhappy and the associated behaviors (complaining a lot, for example) can become a habit.
Also, I want to express this with kindness, but also to offer you a bit of reassurance. I have been in jobs that have relatively good pay and benefits in a competitive industry, where folks seem to stay well into being miserable and hating. Even when I've liked those folks, and even when they've contributed a lot and done good work -- it's always a bit of a relief when the unhappy people leave. It's really hard to have chronically unhappy coworkers, and the misery does become self-perpetuating in the bigger organization.
Is it possible that your bosses aren't doing anything to change the situation because they aren't convinced another situation would be better, and they are trying to gently shoo you out the door? If you are really complaining all the time to everyone, well, that's really taking a toll on them, even as you are contributing in other ways.
Which is to say: even though they like have you there, it'll also be better for them when your unhappiness is gone, you know?
posted by bluedaisy at 1:39 PM on August 9, 2023 [1 favorite]
Sometimes we stay because we _know_ we are good at our work, and we hope the situation will change around us (and sometimes it will). There's also the "I'd rather deal with the jerks I know, and have developed strategies for, than move and have to learn to deal with new jerks and new forms of jerkiness".
In my opinion, the real major problem here is not you or your team, or necessarily your workload and small margin of error, the problem is your boss, who the organization should have replaced something like a century ago. Good bosses do two major things: 1) they deal with administrative cruft and people above and outside the team; 2) they stay out of the way and don't make problems for the team. Yours is failing on at least the second one.
If you have to stay for the foreseeable future, lobby hard for a rotation policy for who gets called with problems. At my former organization we published the rotation because prior to that policy they would call whoever they thought could solve the problem, no matter whether they were on vacation or not. Once the policy was in place, they _had_ to call the people on rotation, and the people _not_ on rotation could answer the phone/text/email with "I'm sorry, I'm not in the rotation until =date=, you need to call the people on rotation ". Team members were allowed to call off-rotation people in dire situations, primarily for questions and you could if you felt it really necessary volunteer to help / sign in and work / whatever. This policy smoothed out a lot of stuff and helped reduce burnout but it took us while to convince management. Eventually there was also a small payment increase for the times when on the rotation but that's not always going to fly with management
posted by TimHare at 10:25 PM on August 9, 2023
In my opinion, the real major problem here is not you or your team, or necessarily your workload and small margin of error, the problem is your boss, who the organization should have replaced something like a century ago. Good bosses do two major things: 1) they deal with administrative cruft and people above and outside the team; 2) they stay out of the way and don't make problems for the team. Yours is failing on at least the second one.
If you have to stay for the foreseeable future, lobby hard for a rotation policy for who gets called with problems. At my former organization we published the rotation because prior to that policy they would call whoever they thought could solve the problem, no matter whether they were on vacation or not. Once the policy was in place, they _had_ to call the people on rotation, and the people _not_ on rotation could answer the phone/text/email with "I'm sorry, I'm not in the rotation until =date=, you need to call the people on rotation ". Team members were allowed to call off-rotation people in dire situations, primarily for questions and you could if you felt it really necessary volunteer to help / sign in and work / whatever. This policy smoothed out a lot of stuff and helped reduce burnout but it took us while to convince management. Eventually there was also a small payment increase for the times when on the rotation but that's not always going to fly with management
posted by TimHare at 10:25 PM on August 9, 2023
If you wait for them to be ready to let you go, it's never going to happen. But if you just leave, they will probably figure things out. Maybe they'll do some things differently than you would have. Maybe they will make some mistakes that had already been made in the past. But it won't be your mess to clean up, and the world will not end.
Do you have friends or mentors elsewhere in the company who could give you some advice on this transfer process (or perhaps you could reach out to former team members who have moved on to other teams)? Talk to HR to see if there's anything you can do to get things moving. Get some advice and support from people who don't have anything to gain from keeping you stuck.
Or instead of going through this vague transfer process, can you just find a job you want and apply for it? I got a new job in a different department of my current employer by just applying for a publicly-posted job opening.
At my previous, I felt really stuck because I didn't have confidence in my own expertise--I thought the only thing of value I had to offer was all the obscure history and institutional knowledge I'd accumulated over the years. But then because I was the only one with all that background knowledge, I became responsible for dealing with all the legacy systems instead of learning to use the newer tools my team was transitioning towards, so I felt even more stuck.
Change is hard. I was utterly terrified of leaving my old job--I'd worked there from the age of 18 to 28. I was terrified to even try to apply for the new job, even though it was just a switch from one department to another. At first I wasn't sure I'd actually take the job if they offered it to me. But once I submitted my application, I realized that I really, desperately did want it. There were more opportunities for professional development, for autonomy, for promotion, for raises. It has been so good.
Is the process of preparing to leave and doing all the knowledge transfer going to be utterly miserable? Probably, yeah. But you're already miserable, stressed, and overworked right now. You're not going from a great situation to a bad one, you're going from a long-term bad situation to a bad situation with an end date.
Don't think about all the things you think you owe your current department (you don't owe anyone your long-term misery) or how hard it will be to leave (it will be easier than you think! the coworkers who actually like you will be happy for you!). Think about what you'll gain from leaving. What will you be able to focus on once you're no longer spending so much time playing department historian? What opportunities will your new department offer you?
posted by threecolorable at 6:04 PM on August 10, 2023
Do you have friends or mentors elsewhere in the company who could give you some advice on this transfer process (or perhaps you could reach out to former team members who have moved on to other teams)? Talk to HR to see if there's anything you can do to get things moving. Get some advice and support from people who don't have anything to gain from keeping you stuck.
Or instead of going through this vague transfer process, can you just find a job you want and apply for it? I got a new job in a different department of my current employer by just applying for a publicly-posted job opening.
At my previous, I felt really stuck because I didn't have confidence in my own expertise--I thought the only thing of value I had to offer was all the obscure history and institutional knowledge I'd accumulated over the years. But then because I was the only one with all that background knowledge, I became responsible for dealing with all the legacy systems instead of learning to use the newer tools my team was transitioning towards, so I felt even more stuck.
Change is hard. I was utterly terrified of leaving my old job--I'd worked there from the age of 18 to 28. I was terrified to even try to apply for the new job, even though it was just a switch from one department to another. At first I wasn't sure I'd actually take the job if they offered it to me. But once I submitted my application, I realized that I really, desperately did want it. There were more opportunities for professional development, for autonomy, for promotion, for raises. It has been so good.
Is the process of preparing to leave and doing all the knowledge transfer going to be utterly miserable? Probably, yeah. But you're already miserable, stressed, and overworked right now. You're not going from a great situation to a bad one, you're going from a long-term bad situation to a bad situation with an end date.
Don't think about all the things you think you owe your current department (you don't owe anyone your long-term misery) or how hard it will be to leave (it will be easier than you think! the coworkers who actually like you will be happy for you!). Think about what you'll gain from leaving. What will you be able to focus on once you're no longer spending so much time playing department historian? What opportunities will your new department offer you?
posted by threecolorable at 6:04 PM on August 10, 2023
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I don't understand how this makes it harder for you to leave. It might make it harder for them to let you go, but that's not your concern, is it?
posted by kevinbelt at 7:11 AM on August 9, 2023 [9 favorites]