How do you deal with guilt over cutting off a parent?
July 7, 2023 3:43 PM Subscribe
I've finally had it with my father and just went and blocked his number on my phone and decided that I'm no longer having anything to do with him, but I've been here before and backtracked because otherwise my brother and his wife (they live next door to him) get stuck with dealing with him and I end up feeling guilty. I'd like not to do that this time, but not sure how and am looking for ideas of how to stay committed to just ignoring him and genuine awfulness.
The twist on this is that he's recently landed himself in hospital and I had been coming down to help out my brother so everything didn't land on him and his wife completely, so I feel terrible about just running out like this. But I can't help out and hang onto my sanity; he's just too awful.
Best answer: I very nearly did this, very nearly, after my dad said our marriage meant nothing as we did not want children, so he set out to harm us. I'm an only though so a threat was enough to wake him up a bit. It is very difficult to walk away but sometimes you have to.
posted by unearthed at 3:52 PM on July 7, 2023 [6 favorites]
posted by unearthed at 3:52 PM on July 7, 2023 [6 favorites]
Support your _brother_. Send dinner several nights (ask/tell him what nights). Maybe send cleaning help. If it takes money that you don't have, you could consider working a little more to send that money -- that would help your brother a LOT.
posted by amtho at 4:02 PM on July 7, 2023 [14 favorites]
posted by amtho at 4:02 PM on July 7, 2023 [14 favorites]
Response by poster: Can you contribute something to make your brother's life easier while caring for your dad, then? Like, money so he can hire folks to do some of the work, perhaps?
We're lucky enough that this would/is be supplied by the state. It's more about less tangible forms of support.
posted by lesbiassparrow at 4:05 PM on July 7, 2023 [1 favorite]
We're lucky enough that this would/is be supplied by the state. It's more about less tangible forms of support.
posted by lesbiassparrow at 4:05 PM on July 7, 2023 [1 favorite]
Whatever help the state is supplying, it's probably not enough -- otherwise your brother wouldn't have to be involved.
If all your brother is doing is spending time with your Dad playing video games and talking, that's totally his own choice. If your brother is cleaning your Dad's house, handling his mail, and making sure he has enough groceries and doesn't forget to eat -- that could be partially outsourced.
posted by amtho at 4:14 PM on July 7, 2023 [21 favorites]
If all your brother is doing is spending time with your Dad playing video games and talking, that's totally his own choice. If your brother is cleaning your Dad's house, handling his mail, and making sure he has enough groceries and doesn't forget to eat -- that could be partially outsourced.
posted by amtho at 4:14 PM on July 7, 2023 [21 favorites]
Some ideas for now:
Research long term care homes
Pay for brother’s gas for visits
Pay for a cleaner, meals, laundry service, gardener, childcare, pet care, etc or whatever other household tasks are useful for brother’s home, so your brother’s time spent caring for your dad isn’t trickling down and causing him to neglect his own household or make his wife pick up his slack.
Some possible ideas for later - but tell bro now so he knows it’s coming:
Tell your bro you will coordinate clearing out dad’s home when dad eventually no longer lives there
Tell your bro you will coordinate selling dad’s home when dad eventually no longer lives there
Tell bro you will do all the funeral planning and estate stuff when dad eventually passes
Tell bro you will give him a bigger cut of the estate when it’s given.
Basically let brother take the lead on the “alive” parts of your dad’s care but reassure him you will take the lead after your dad passes eventually.
That would mean a lot to me if I were in that position. Make sure to tell him now, so he and his wife know they’ll be off the hook eventually - this is the kind of respite where people really gain strength from anticipation.
posted by nouvelle-personne at 4:17 PM on July 7, 2023 [19 favorites]
Research long term care homes
Pay for brother’s gas for visits
Pay for a cleaner, meals, laundry service, gardener, childcare, pet care, etc or whatever other household tasks are useful for brother’s home, so your brother’s time spent caring for your dad isn’t trickling down and causing him to neglect his own household or make his wife pick up his slack.
Some possible ideas for later - but tell bro now so he knows it’s coming:
Tell your bro you will coordinate clearing out dad’s home when dad eventually no longer lives there
Tell your bro you will coordinate selling dad’s home when dad eventually no longer lives there
Tell bro you will do all the funeral planning and estate stuff when dad eventually passes
Tell bro you will give him a bigger cut of the estate when it’s given.
Basically let brother take the lead on the “alive” parts of your dad’s care but reassure him you will take the lead after your dad passes eventually.
That would mean a lot to me if I were in that position. Make sure to tell him now, so he and his wife know they’ll be off the hook eventually - this is the kind of respite where people really gain strength from anticipation.
posted by nouvelle-personne at 4:17 PM on July 7, 2023 [19 favorites]
We don't get to choose our parents...
Sometime, they are just shitbags, and it's time to move on, and there is nothing to do about that.
Ask your brother what help you can give him. That's about all there is
posted by Windopaene at 5:20 PM on July 7, 2023 [4 favorites]
Sometime, they are just shitbags, and it's time to move on, and there is nothing to do about that.
Ask your brother what help you can give him. That's about all there is
posted by Windopaene at 5:20 PM on July 7, 2023 [4 favorites]
A friend did this with his father...and is still trying to maintain a relationship with his mother, who is still married to his father.
It's....a tightrope. He had to have a couple come-to-Jesus talks with her about how "no, I mean it, I do not want to talk to Dad" when he called to talk to her at first, and actually had to hold her at arms' length for a while to enforce that.
But he also made it clear that he wanted to keep in contact with her, and she was willing to do that - and she actually saw his side, and has actually started to realize she's got some issues of her own. Not that she's using my friend as a therapist or anything - more like, they've had some honest talks about Stuff That Happened When I Was A Kid and its actually brought them closer. She often travels on her own and he sometimes meets up with her for family bonding that way instead of going "home". He's also doing a lot of therapy on his own as well, and has gently encouraged her to do the same.
It's definitely possible to walk that tightrope, is what I'm saying. You may need to pull back from both father and brother at first, though, to reinforce that - but it's definitely possible for you to support your brother without involving yourself with your father. And maybe- like my friend - you'll realize that this was an extremely wise and brave thing to do.
Good luck.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 5:25 PM on July 7, 2023 [3 favorites]
It's....a tightrope. He had to have a couple come-to-Jesus talks with her about how "no, I mean it, I do not want to talk to Dad" when he called to talk to her at first, and actually had to hold her at arms' length for a while to enforce that.
But he also made it clear that he wanted to keep in contact with her, and she was willing to do that - and she actually saw his side, and has actually started to realize she's got some issues of her own. Not that she's using my friend as a therapist or anything - more like, they've had some honest talks about Stuff That Happened When I Was A Kid and its actually brought them closer. She often travels on her own and he sometimes meets up with her for family bonding that way instead of going "home". He's also doing a lot of therapy on his own as well, and has gently encouraged her to do the same.
It's definitely possible to walk that tightrope, is what I'm saying. You may need to pull back from both father and brother at first, though, to reinforce that - but it's definitely possible for you to support your brother without involving yourself with your father. And maybe- like my friend - you'll realize that this was an extremely wise and brave thing to do.
Good luck.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 5:25 PM on July 7, 2023 [3 favorites]
Have you asked your brother what forms of remote support he would appreciate? If not, start there.
Even if care expenses are born by the state your brother probably spends a lot of time coordinating and ‘dealing with/managing’ your father. That’s time he now no longer has to spend on his own life. There’s a good chance there are ways you can ease his burden without having to interact with your father.
And yes, clearing out your father’s home/sorting out his estate etc - basically all time consuming and annoying things after he is gone should be primarily your problem.
posted by koahiatamadl at 7:03 PM on July 7, 2023 [9 favorites]
Even if care expenses are born by the state your brother probably spends a lot of time coordinating and ‘dealing with/managing’ your father. That’s time he now no longer has to spend on his own life. There’s a good chance there are ways you can ease his burden without having to interact with your father.
And yes, clearing out your father’s home/sorting out his estate etc - basically all time consuming and annoying things after he is gone should be primarily your problem.
posted by koahiatamadl at 7:03 PM on July 7, 2023 [9 favorites]
Call your brother, explain that you've tried, but it's not working, that you want to support him. Your brother may have more sway with your Dad, and he chose to live next door. Let your brother know that you want to support him.
I'm in my 60s, seeing people my age and parents of friends become not just old, but old and losing competence through dementia and illness. Sick old people and people with dementia lose a lot of their ability to adapt and grow. So relationship repair may not be on the table. Some people mellow, some regress, some get cranky, for various values of cranky. It's really difficult for everyone.
Define your boundaries, stick to them. This isn't easy. good luck.
posted by theora55 at 8:09 PM on July 7, 2023 [2 favorites]
I'm in my 60s, seeing people my age and parents of friends become not just old, but old and losing competence through dementia and illness. Sick old people and people with dementia lose a lot of their ability to adapt and grow. So relationship repair may not be on the table. Some people mellow, some regress, some get cranky, for various values of cranky. It's really difficult for everyone.
Define your boundaries, stick to them. This isn't easy. good luck.
posted by theora55 at 8:09 PM on July 7, 2023 [2 favorites]
My sibling and I worked up a deal where each of us took on one horrible parent. I handled Dad, his drama, decline, and death, because my sibling could not handle Dad. My sibling is all over Mom's death, because I could not handle Mom.
So I agree with the advice to contact your brother. I'd also see what tasks your sister-in-law is taking on, as she may be pulling a heavy load.
You may find yourself able to schedule appointments, get your father on wait lists for services, or, if you live close enough, get his home prepped for release from the hospital (stock the freezer, clean, pick up prescriptions and beverages, etc). These tasks can be accomplished invisibly.
Additionally, if your father is a member of a church of other social group, there's potential for help there. Adding your dad to a prayer list lets members know he could use extra help. (My dad was a tribal elder and veteran, and I put out the word on those grapevines.)
The key is to perform concrete, helpful tasks that do not place you in an emotionally unsafe situation.
posted by champers at 2:03 AM on July 8, 2023 [1 favorite]
So I agree with the advice to contact your brother. I'd also see what tasks your sister-in-law is taking on, as she may be pulling a heavy load.
You may find yourself able to schedule appointments, get your father on wait lists for services, or, if you live close enough, get his home prepped for release from the hospital (stock the freezer, clean, pick up prescriptions and beverages, etc). These tasks can be accomplished invisibly.
Additionally, if your father is a member of a church of other social group, there's potential for help there. Adding your dad to a prayer list lets members know he could use extra help. (My dad was a tribal elder and veteran, and I put out the word on those grapevines.)
The key is to perform concrete, helpful tasks that do not place you in an emotionally unsafe situation.
posted by champers at 2:03 AM on July 8, 2023 [1 favorite]
Stay in regular touch with your brother, marking a time to recontact on your calendar, with alerts, such as once a week. Explain to him you have gone to no-direct-contact, and during your weekly check in, ask how HE is doing regarding your dad. Listen for cues where you can help him. Ask him for ways you can help him, and indirectly help your dad too. You can do things like supply runs, research etc. You can also do things directly for your brother to free him up to deal with your dad, so while he is running errands for your Dad in your car, you can be taking his car for an oil change.
Remind yourself that contact with your dad is precipitating self-harming behaviour on your dad's part. He gets abusive when you see him or talk to him. Frame this in your head as him having difficulties self regulating, and contact with you being a trigger, the way that the presence of alcohol is not good for someone who is trying to dry out. Brandy may be essential for fruit cake and crêpes Suzette, but it is not a good thing for someone who has problem drinking to have around them. It is not good for you dad to get away with treating anyone badly, as it reinforces his own sense of entitlement and grievance. Being there for him to mistreat is the same as holding out liquor in front of a lapsing alcoholic.
Get buy in from your brother and support from him for your no-contact state. Do not allow your father to use his as a go-between. If he bears messages, listen to them and then respond with sympathy to your brother being stuck between the two of you, NOT to the message. No negotiating around or addressing the content of his messages.
However, allow him to carry content free messages from you, "lesbiassparrow sends her love." "lesbiassparrow says to say she is doing well and hopes that you get home soon." etc. Any messages from you should be short and positive and be the kind of thing you can find printed inside a greeting card. It should NEVER address any of the issues between you and your father. Those are insolvable and references to them will retraumatize you and re-engage him into denial or neediness. The reason for those messages is so that your brother has something to say that still says nothing, to help your Dad create a narrative where you do not have to be dragged back into his orbit. He should be thinking of you as just a little farther out than usual, but still there. Let your brother decide if he wants to deliver these messages. Just don't put anything in the messages for your brother to glom onto. For example don't mention your wedding or surgery.
Never address your father or your brother's emotions around the situation, if you are told "He misses you!" or "He keeps blowing up at me when you won't talk to him, and I can't take it anymore!" The response to the second is to briefly agree with your brother that your dad is behaving badly and it is as difficult as hell for him. Stick to material, and tangible support. Get food delivered to your brother. Contribute cash to a once a week caretaker to help your dad take a bath. Loan your brother your car. Go to your brother's home, if your dad won't be there, and help him with his dishes backlog and admire his painting.
Remind yourself that you are helping your brother AND your father to a perfectly reasonable degree and that increasing your assistance to include contact with your father would not help them as much as it would do you harm. Remind yourself that it is anxiety behind the guilt, and fear behind the guilt giving you the urge to run back and placate your father.
Your desire to go back will be based on the gaslighting that your father has done in the past, that his relationship with you is not abusive. One of the gaslighting things that your father has done has been to tell you that he can say anything he wants to you and that it does you no harm and that it even does you good. Don't fall for that. You KNOW you have gone through masses of misery just from things he has said to you, and from the demands he has put on you.
Focus on relationships where people provide you with wholesome, affectionate, supportive love, the kind you might want from your dad, but can't get. If you just want to be close to your dad again and get nostalgic, honor that feeling and try to figure out an appropriate place to seek it a healthy relationship. This one is a write off. Look elsewhere.
posted by Jane the Brown at 6:40 AM on July 8, 2023 [4 favorites]
Remind yourself that contact with your dad is precipitating self-harming behaviour on your dad's part. He gets abusive when you see him or talk to him. Frame this in your head as him having difficulties self regulating, and contact with you being a trigger, the way that the presence of alcohol is not good for someone who is trying to dry out. Brandy may be essential for fruit cake and crêpes Suzette, but it is not a good thing for someone who has problem drinking to have around them. It is not good for you dad to get away with treating anyone badly, as it reinforces his own sense of entitlement and grievance. Being there for him to mistreat is the same as holding out liquor in front of a lapsing alcoholic.
Get buy in from your brother and support from him for your no-contact state. Do not allow your father to use his as a go-between. If he bears messages, listen to them and then respond with sympathy to your brother being stuck between the two of you, NOT to the message. No negotiating around or addressing the content of his messages.
However, allow him to carry content free messages from you, "lesbiassparrow sends her love." "lesbiassparrow says to say she is doing well and hopes that you get home soon." etc. Any messages from you should be short and positive and be the kind of thing you can find printed inside a greeting card. It should NEVER address any of the issues between you and your father. Those are insolvable and references to them will retraumatize you and re-engage him into denial or neediness. The reason for those messages is so that your brother has something to say that still says nothing, to help your Dad create a narrative where you do not have to be dragged back into his orbit. He should be thinking of you as just a little farther out than usual, but still there. Let your brother decide if he wants to deliver these messages. Just don't put anything in the messages for your brother to glom onto. For example don't mention your wedding or surgery.
Never address your father or your brother's emotions around the situation, if you are told "He misses you!" or "He keeps blowing up at me when you won't talk to him, and I can't take it anymore!" The response to the second is to briefly agree with your brother that your dad is behaving badly and it is as difficult as hell for him. Stick to material, and tangible support. Get food delivered to your brother. Contribute cash to a once a week caretaker to help your dad take a bath. Loan your brother your car. Go to your brother's home, if your dad won't be there, and help him with his dishes backlog and admire his painting.
Remind yourself that you are helping your brother AND your father to a perfectly reasonable degree and that increasing your assistance to include contact with your father would not help them as much as it would do you harm. Remind yourself that it is anxiety behind the guilt, and fear behind the guilt giving you the urge to run back and placate your father.
Your desire to go back will be based on the gaslighting that your father has done in the past, that his relationship with you is not abusive. One of the gaslighting things that your father has done has been to tell you that he can say anything he wants to you and that it does you no harm and that it even does you good. Don't fall for that. You KNOW you have gone through masses of misery just from things he has said to you, and from the demands he has put on you.
Focus on relationships where people provide you with wholesome, affectionate, supportive love, the kind you might want from your dad, but can't get. If you just want to be close to your dad again and get nostalgic, honor that feeling and try to figure out an appropriate place to seek it a healthy relationship. This one is a write off. Look elsewhere.
posted by Jane the Brown at 6:40 AM on July 8, 2023 [4 favorites]
Can you instead refocus to spending more time with your brother and his family? Organizing something social/fun with them (just them) as the occasional respite from dealing with Dad?
posted by TwoStride at 9:00 AM on July 8, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by TwoStride at 9:00 AM on July 8, 2023 [1 favorite]
Seven years no contact with an emotionally abusive parent.
The number one answer to your question is therapy.
The second answer is to understand that your brother is making his own choices — it might seem like he has no option but to take care of your dad, but he is CHOOSING to do it just like you are choosing to opt out. He also might not even know this is a choice but it is. If you haven't already, a frank convo with your brother about this dynamic might be helpful for both of you, so that you know what his expectations are and he knows what your limitations are. A therapist can help you make sure this conversation is productive and not an emotional time bomb.
My third answer is finding a support group for estranged children. I am in a group for people with personality-disordered parents. Just knowing my situation is not unique is helpful, and removes some of the shame and stigma from it.
Fourth, I encourage you to be as open as possible about this situation to other people in your life. You might not be there yet, but sunlight is the best disinfectant. Guilt and shame go hand in hand, and speaking about your situation without shame will not only help you but will help others who think being estranged has to be a dirty little secret.
Finally, I am not saying your parent has a personality disorder, but some of the resources on Out of the FOG may be helpful to you. (FOG = fear, obligation and guilt.)
posted by Brittanie at 12:59 PM on July 8, 2023 [5 favorites]
The number one answer to your question is therapy.
The second answer is to understand that your brother is making his own choices — it might seem like he has no option but to take care of your dad, but he is CHOOSING to do it just like you are choosing to opt out. He also might not even know this is a choice but it is. If you haven't already, a frank convo with your brother about this dynamic might be helpful for both of you, so that you know what his expectations are and he knows what your limitations are. A therapist can help you make sure this conversation is productive and not an emotional time bomb.
My third answer is finding a support group for estranged children. I am in a group for people with personality-disordered parents. Just knowing my situation is not unique is helpful, and removes some of the shame and stigma from it.
Fourth, I encourage you to be as open as possible about this situation to other people in your life. You might not be there yet, but sunlight is the best disinfectant. Guilt and shame go hand in hand, and speaking about your situation without shame will not only help you but will help others who think being estranged has to be a dirty little secret.
Finally, I am not saying your parent has a personality disorder, but some of the resources on Out of the FOG may be helpful to you. (FOG = fear, obligation and guilt.)
posted by Brittanie at 12:59 PM on July 8, 2023 [5 favorites]
I am your brother. My only sibling has no contact with my dad. My dad has some very serious health problems. It would maybe be easier for me if my sibling was involved except maybe it wouldn't be because it's not completely unlikely that my sibling would be grudging and resentful and dramatic about it (because they wouldn't want to be there) and they would very likely huff and sulk and want to have long convos all about them and their issues with my dad. To be clear, my dad is a total asshole and I fully support him and my sibling because they're both weirdos and I love them both very much.
So that's just one family's example of why it's okay to just walk away from a relationship that you don't want to have. It can turn out to be okay and for the best if it's what you want. It's no fun for anyone to have to deal with two people who don't get along but won't leave each other alone. I can't speak for your brother obviously.
This is what I hope you can sit with as you mull over the situation: No matter how your brother or anyone else reacts to you choosing to not be around your dad it is not your obligation to have a relationship with anyone if you don't want to and that includes family.
Healthy relationships are consensual.
So if it helps I can tell you as the sibling "left to shoulder the burden" that I am here for my dad because I want to be. No one is forcing me and I do it for myself as much as for my dad. If your brother is resentful of your freedom from your father that's on him. He's a grownup and can make his own choices about his own relationships.
posted by RobinofFrocksley at 6:05 PM on July 8, 2023 [8 favorites]
So that's just one family's example of why it's okay to just walk away from a relationship that you don't want to have. It can turn out to be okay and for the best if it's what you want. It's no fun for anyone to have to deal with two people who don't get along but won't leave each other alone. I can't speak for your brother obviously.
This is what I hope you can sit with as you mull over the situation: No matter how your brother or anyone else reacts to you choosing to not be around your dad it is not your obligation to have a relationship with anyone if you don't want to and that includes family.
Healthy relationships are consensual.
So if it helps I can tell you as the sibling "left to shoulder the burden" that I am here for my dad because I want to be. No one is forcing me and I do it for myself as much as for my dad. If your brother is resentful of your freedom from your father that's on him. He's a grownup and can make his own choices about his own relationships.
posted by RobinofFrocksley at 6:05 PM on July 8, 2023 [8 favorites]
It’s your brother’s choice to care for your dad. Anything you do should be purely to support your brother - the same way you’d support him if he had any other weighty responsibility of his own, like a sick child. It’s not always easy to draw those lines, but that’s how I see it.
And also, generally the sibling/s who are willing to care for the problematic parents are those who have received much more from the parent, in terms of material and emotional support. That’s how it is in my family. I’m sure my siblings believe I’m a free rider but I’m like 🤷♀️? They got so much more than I did, I feel zero guilt. I suppose if I were the only child I’d probably do more, but I’d also likely have received more. I realize that is an extremely transactional way to look at it, but I sleep very well at night.
posted by haptic_avenger at 7:35 AM on July 9, 2023
And also, generally the sibling/s who are willing to care for the problematic parents are those who have received much more from the parent, in terms of material and emotional support. That’s how it is in my family. I’m sure my siblings believe I’m a free rider but I’m like 🤷♀️? They got so much more than I did, I feel zero guilt. I suppose if I were the only child I’d probably do more, but I’d also likely have received more. I realize that is an extremely transactional way to look at it, but I sleep very well at night.
posted by haptic_avenger at 7:35 AM on July 9, 2023
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posted by BlahLaLa at 3:47 PM on July 7, 2023 [17 favorites]