How much to pay for artwork?
July 4, 2023 11:55 AM Subscribe
I would like to have a talented high-school student create a piece of artwork for me. They are shy about prices (though have done a few commissioned pieces before) and I want to make sure I am paying a fair price as I fear they may be low-balling themselves.
The piece is an A4 format painting of a landscape similar to this . They will be doing it in an impressionist style.
Please let me know if any details are missing that would help the consideration of the price. I want to pay a portion upfront to make sure they will not be buying anything out of pocket.
The piece is an A4 format painting of a landscape similar to this . They will be doing it in an impressionist style.
Please let me know if any details are missing that would help the consideration of the price. I want to pay a portion upfront to make sure they will not be buying anything out of pocket.
I'd say... several hundred dollars, probably? It's a bit hard to estimate, but I'm basing this on what I'd imagine a piece like that going for if I saw it on the wall in a quirky tea shop.
posted by sagc at 12:11 PM on July 4, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by sagc at 12:11 PM on July 4, 2023 [3 favorites]
Where do you and this artist live?
Is there a significant difference between your and their socioeconomic status?
posted by box at 12:20 PM on July 4, 2023 [3 favorites]
Is there a significant difference between your and their socioeconomic status?
posted by box at 12:20 PM on July 4, 2023 [3 favorites]
Would help to know the medium, the substrate, whether or not framing is required, and your location for pricing.
One pricing model is for an artist to come up with a multiplier per square cm/inch and charge based on this price. Established artists might charge $8 per a square inch in US/Canada. This figure could go up or down based on the experience of the artist and the price that the local market will bear.
Specialty materials, such as frames, should be billed at a markup to account for taxes and labour. The markup may be from 50-100%, depending on the price of the materials.
posted by shock muppet at 12:25 PM on July 4, 2023
One pricing model is for an artist to come up with a multiplier per square cm/inch and charge based on this price. Established artists might charge $8 per a square inch in US/Canada. This figure could go up or down based on the experience of the artist and the price that the local market will bear.
Specialty materials, such as frames, should be billed at a markup to account for taxes and labour. The markup may be from 50-100%, depending on the price of the materials.
posted by shock muppet at 12:25 PM on July 4, 2023
Response by poster: To give some additional info:
We live in a large metropole in France. They haven't done a painting for commission before, only sketched portraits as far as I know at around 15- 20 euros .
No significant difference between our socio-economic status
Medium and substrate: watercolor on A4 quality paper specific for watercolors, no framing (I am not an artist, I hope my terminology is clear!).
posted by Blissful at 12:38 PM on July 4, 2023
We live in a large metropole in France. They haven't done a painting for commission before, only sketched portraits as far as I know at around 15- 20 euros .
No significant difference between our socio-economic status
Medium and substrate: watercolor on A4 quality paper specific for watercolors, no framing (I am not an artist, I hope my terminology is clear!).
posted by Blissful at 12:38 PM on July 4, 2023
Yeah, it’s really hard to tell what’s a fair price without more details (on preview: more details have arrived!). Watercolor on unframed paper by a talented high schooler who has all the supplies they need on hand, maybe $100? Oil or acrylic on canvas, or anything framed, maybe $200?
A4 is pretty small, but it’s going to be hard putting a price on it without knowing how much time they’re putting into it. I know artists that would spend a half hour on something like this and have it look great, and others that would take five times as long for similar end-product.
posted by not just everyday big moggies at 12:38 PM on July 4, 2023 [1 favorite]
A4 is pretty small, but it’s going to be hard putting a price on it without knowing how much time they’re putting into it. I know artists that would spend a half hour on something like this and have it look great, and others that would take five times as long for similar end-product.
posted by not just everyday big moggies at 12:38 PM on July 4, 2023 [1 favorite]
50 Euro sounds like it would be generous. 35 might be OK. What is it worth to you? For myself, supporting a young artist, helping them get a feeling their effort is worth it, if I could afford it I would offer 50Euro. If they feel weird about it you could try a more fluid arrangement, that is, they keep painting until they are happy with it/ until they feel they've painted 50 Euro worth. You get a choice of the versions they are happy with and one other (if you want, say). This could be interesting to see what they come up with.
posted by From Bklyn at 12:51 PM on July 4, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by From Bklyn at 12:51 PM on July 4, 2023 [1 favorite]
What is a decent hourly rate for work where you live? How much money are you willing to pay for this artwork? Tell the student they need to learn to value their labour properly and you will pay x euros based on y hours of their time creating the artwork. They get to decide how much time to actually spend on it. You get art for a price you think is fair, and they get a fair price for their efforts.
posted by seanmpuckett at 1:31 PM on July 4, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by seanmpuckett at 1:31 PM on July 4, 2023 [1 favorite]
This depends on a lot of things, and it's hard to really say. Art shouldn't sell on the status of the artist more than on the work itself, but to some extent it does. The flip side of this is that the reputation of a skilled artist rises pretty quickly. You also didn't state whether you're doing this because the artist is skilled in a type of art you want, or at least partly to encourage him. You also want to take into account how much he's made from his work before. I wouldn't want to go much higher or lower than that, assuming any prior sales and that they weren't trivially cheap.
I'd be inclined to ask what it's worth and go up from there, unless it's unreasonable, and unless it's way too high. If you really like the piece and can afford it, I'd suggest that $100 to $150 might be a good starting point.
posted by AugustusCrunch at 2:08 PM on July 4, 2023
I'd be inclined to ask what it's worth and go up from there, unless it's unreasonable, and unless it's way too high. If you really like the piece and can afford it, I'd suggest that $100 to $150 might be a good starting point.
posted by AugustusCrunch at 2:08 PM on July 4, 2023
Base it off a modest hourly wage in your area (€15/hr?); they should have some idea of how long it would take them to do a painting in the style/size you're asking for (presumably you're asking them because this is a style they work in, and A4 isn't a crazy size). Add an hour to cover their communication with you, prep, etc.
posted by Superilla at 2:39 PM on July 4, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by Superilla at 2:39 PM on July 4, 2023 [1 favorite]
Fifty sounds generous.
Honestly I wouldn't worry about it too much. Part of the experience of becoming an artist is learning to sell your work and they will have to figure that out.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 3:00 PM on July 4, 2023
Honestly I wouldn't worry about it too much. Part of the experience of becoming an artist is learning to sell your work and they will have to figure that out.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 3:00 PM on July 4, 2023
For a similar sized student work on paper that someone recently wanted to purchase from one of my 17 yo students I suggested they offer in the range of 35-70 euro. That work was completed for a school assignment though, so if they are doing it commissioned for you I would go on the higher end.
posted by Cuke at 3:33 AM on July 5, 2023
posted by Cuke at 3:33 AM on July 5, 2023
I think 50-100€ is a fair offer.
In general, if you hired an independent contractor for skilled work and expected them to bring their own material you would be lucky to get a single hour from them for 50€. And an hour is not a lot even for just DIN A4. I know it's different for unknown artists, but I don't like that it's different, so I try to be generous.
posted by the_dreamwriter at 11:32 AM on July 5, 2023
In general, if you hired an independent contractor for skilled work and expected them to bring their own material you would be lucky to get a single hour from them for 50€. And an hour is not a lot even for just DIN A4. I know it's different for unknown artists, but I don't like that it's different, so I try to be generous.
posted by the_dreamwriter at 11:32 AM on July 5, 2023
As someone who commissions a lot of furry character art (which this is not, but I also pay for art from small-time artists a heck of a lot more than the average person), I'd probably offer around $150-250 USD for detailed landscape work. If you want to be really fair, ask them about how much time you think they'd spend working on it, and extrapolate an hourly wage from that.
People suggesting 50 euros should feel ashamed of themselves.
posted by Aleyn at 7:47 PM on July 5, 2023
People suggesting 50 euros should feel ashamed of themselves.
posted by Aleyn at 7:47 PM on July 5, 2023
Oh, and double that if this is traditional (i.e. physical) medium. At the very least offer to pay for any materials used and any shipping costs.
posted by Aleyn at 7:50 PM on July 5, 2023
posted by Aleyn at 7:50 PM on July 5, 2023
(Material and shipping costs should be in addition to what you pay for their labor, if that wasn't clear. Sorry, I'm just really upset at the prices I'm seeing listed here, enough that I didn't get all of my thoughts in order before posting. But please, think hard about how much it costs to execute this in the first place and be sure your offer is well above that.)
posted by Aleyn at 8:04 PM on July 5, 2023
posted by Aleyn at 8:04 PM on July 5, 2023
People suggesting 50 euros should feel ashamed of themselves.
Sorry, not feeling it. I can get a landscape from a street artist for less.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 10:57 PM on July 5, 2023
Sorry, not feeling it. I can get a landscape from a street artist for less.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 10:57 PM on July 5, 2023
Mod note: One comment removed. Per the Content Policy, please keep Ask Metafilter comments focused on answering the question and not on other users.
posted by Brandon Blatcher (staff) at 6:13 AM on July 6, 2023
posted by Brandon Blatcher (staff) at 6:13 AM on July 6, 2023
I want to impress upon people the difference between an artist creating a work in their own time, and then trying to sell that work, and pricing it in quiet desperation at a craft fair or swap meet or whatever at $50 in the hopes that it'll finally sell to some unknown audience, and what is happening here. You are hiring a specific artist to create a specific work to your specifications in lieu of whatever else they might choose to do, and they deserve to be compensated fairly for doing that work for you. It is still labor, even if it's work they enjoy, even if it's a project they might've been inclined to do themselves, and the price should reflect that.
Sorry if I ruffled any feathers here, but this is something I feel very strongly about.
posted by Aleyn at 7:30 AM on July 7, 2023 [1 favorite]
Sorry if I ruffled any feathers here, but this is something I feel very strongly about.
posted by Aleyn at 7:30 AM on July 7, 2023 [1 favorite]
I am with you, Aleyn. 50€ is insulting. Even an A4 watercolour can take 5-10 hours if it’s sufficiently detailed. For those of you that are not watercolour artists, often you have to let the painting dry between layers, which means multiple sittings. Artists should not make 5-10€/hour.
At 20€/hr that’s 200€, a more reasonable offer.
For watercolour, I would not want to explicitly pay for materials because it’s hard to properly bill. The price depends on the type of paint, colours used, etc and nobody measures out the 1/5 of the tube/pan used to create a painting. I estimate 20-30€ of artist quality materials. Simply inflate the hourly estimate and add an hour if you think 10 hours is not enough.
posted by shock muppet at 3:46 PM on July 7, 2023
At 20€/hr that’s 200€, a more reasonable offer.
For watercolour, I would not want to explicitly pay for materials because it’s hard to properly bill. The price depends on the type of paint, colours used, etc and nobody measures out the 1/5 of the tube/pan used to create a painting. I estimate 20-30€ of artist quality materials. Simply inflate the hourly estimate and add an hour if you think 10 hours is not enough.
posted by shock muppet at 3:46 PM on July 7, 2023
50€ is insulting. Even an A4 watercolour can take 5-10 hours if it’s sufficiently detailed.
Sure, fifty euros is insulting for ten hours of work, but we don’t have any idea how long this is going to take. OP provided us a stock photo of a landscape for subject reference, a size of paper, and a [very broad] medium. With this information, there’s absolutely no way to determine a fair price. My spouse is a watercolor artist and we know many artists working in the medium, and I would never even hazard a guess about the amount of time put into a piece.
The only way to know what an artist’s time is worth is to ask them. 500 euros for an A4 watercolor might be what their time is worth in the abstract, but if that notion causes them to not sell future pieces because of the price it might ultimately cause harm to their ambitions. OP just needs to ask the artist to set a fair price, anything else at this point of a budding career is too fraught with risk.
posted by not just everyday big moggies at 5:22 PM on July 7, 2023
Sure, fifty euros is insulting for ten hours of work, but we don’t have any idea how long this is going to take. OP provided us a stock photo of a landscape for subject reference, a size of paper, and a [very broad] medium. With this information, there’s absolutely no way to determine a fair price. My spouse is a watercolor artist and we know many artists working in the medium, and I would never even hazard a guess about the amount of time put into a piece.
The only way to know what an artist’s time is worth is to ask them. 500 euros for an A4 watercolor might be what their time is worth in the abstract, but if that notion causes them to not sell future pieces because of the price it might ultimately cause harm to their ambitions. OP just needs to ask the artist to set a fair price, anything else at this point of a budding career is too fraught with risk.
posted by not just everyday big moggies at 5:22 PM on July 7, 2023
The problem I’m seeing here is that the doctrine of fair compensation cuts both ways.
People making their living as artists have not only basic life needs, working space, and materials to cover but also need to be compensated for the thousands of hours spent honing their craft. It costs money to live and if we want to encourage professional artists we have to create an economy they can work in.
However. A talented high-schooler is not a professional artist. It is reasonable to believe that they have no basic life costs, no studio, and there’s a good chance they’re not even paying for their materials. Furthermore they have simply not had time for the practice hours it takes to become a professional.
If you believe that fair compensation is a good doctrine then paying anywhere near what you would pay an established professional is a slap in the face to established professionals.
Two other common doctrines are "what will the market bear" and "what is the actual value to the buyer." In this case I think you may be better off leaning on those two rather than trying to price what may well end up being someone’s high-school class project.
But as I said above you shouldn’t be doing the pricing. If said high-school student is headed down the path of being a professional artist then balancing all of those doctrines and arriving at a price is a skill they need to learn.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 8:09 AM on July 9, 2023
People making their living as artists have not only basic life needs, working space, and materials to cover but also need to be compensated for the thousands of hours spent honing their craft. It costs money to live and if we want to encourage professional artists we have to create an economy they can work in.
However. A talented high-schooler is not a professional artist. It is reasonable to believe that they have no basic life costs, no studio, and there’s a good chance they’re not even paying for their materials. Furthermore they have simply not had time for the practice hours it takes to become a professional.
If you believe that fair compensation is a good doctrine then paying anywhere near what you would pay an established professional is a slap in the face to established professionals.
Two other common doctrines are "what will the market bear" and "what is the actual value to the buyer." In this case I think you may be better off leaning on those two rather than trying to price what may well end up being someone’s high-school class project.
But as I said above you shouldn’t be doing the pricing. If said high-school student is headed down the path of being a professional artist then balancing all of those doctrines and arriving at a price is a skill they need to learn.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 8:09 AM on July 9, 2023
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by virve at 12:11 PM on July 4, 2023 [2 favorites]