Is this normal: security deposit for furnished rental?
June 30, 2023 7:18 AM Subscribe
I've been waiting on my security deposit from my old apartment. It was a furnished rental for 10 months. They took $300 out to replace all of the linens. Is this normal?
This is the eleventh apartment I've rented and I've never not had my security deposit returned in full. This is the first furnished rental I've ever lived in. It was a winter rental and now they are using it for weekly summer rentals.
I just got what remains of my security deposit back, minus a $250 cleaning fee (this was disclosed in the lease), minus $165 for 5.5 hours of extra cleaning (stain removal from sofa and chairs - certainly nothing memorable - plus there was a sticky thing from my razor on the shower which they needed to scrape off).
Also they took off $298 to replace what is labeled on the receipt as: throws, bath shop, towels, bath mat, sheets, decorative bedding. None of these items were ruined but I did use the sheets for a year. I put half the towels and the shower curtain and bathmat in a box for the year and used my own. This was all left in the rental.
From the lease: Damages to apartment and/or furnishings which are not due to normal wear and tear: If any carpets, furnishings or bedding are damaged or soil ed, tenants shall be responsible for costs to clean and or replace as needed.
Again, this is the... eleventh or twelfth? apartment I've rented - I've never broken a lease, been evicted, or lost even a portion of my security deposit. If it seems normal I won't make a fuss but I am extremely financially strapped right now and this money would go really far.
This is the eleventh apartment I've rented and I've never not had my security deposit returned in full. This is the first furnished rental I've ever lived in. It was a winter rental and now they are using it for weekly summer rentals.
I just got what remains of my security deposit back, minus a $250 cleaning fee (this was disclosed in the lease), minus $165 for 5.5 hours of extra cleaning (stain removal from sofa and chairs - certainly nothing memorable - plus there was a sticky thing from my razor on the shower which they needed to scrape off).
Also they took off $298 to replace what is labeled on the receipt as: throws, bath shop, towels, bath mat, sheets, decorative bedding. None of these items were ruined but I did use the sheets for a year. I put half the towels and the shower curtain and bathmat in a box for the year and used my own. This was all left in the rental.
From the lease: Damages to apartment and/or furnishings which are not due to normal wear and tear: If any carpets, furnishings or bedding are damaged or soil ed, tenants shall be responsible for costs to clean and or replace as needed.
Again, this is the... eleventh or twelfth? apartment I've rented - I've never broken a lease, been evicted, or lost even a portion of my security deposit. If it seems normal I won't make a fuss but I am extremely financially strapped right now and this money would go really far.
I agree with raccoon. My last landlord tried something like this (tried to bill me for cleaning his already-disgusting carpet) and I reminded him that the both the lease and the local law did not permit him to bill me for anything that was normal wear and tear. He backed off.
posted by fingersandtoes at 7:31 AM on June 30, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by fingersandtoes at 7:31 AM on June 30, 2023 [3 favorites]
I would try simply politely asking to see the receipts for those linens, and photos of the damage which necessitated their replacement.
And for a bit of a sneaky extra - if you have a friend who's a lawyer (or the friend of a friend), ask if you can CC: them at the bottom of the letter, even if they're like employment law or something unrelated. Sometimes even just hinting that you're speaking with a lawyer about this will get someone to cave. (My theater company was able to scare off someone who sent us a cease-and-desist letter because his "swim with dolphins" company had the same name as our theater company; we did exactly this, using the name of a lawyer we were friends with, and he backed off. ....even though her focus was on construction and housing as opposed to copyright law....)
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:48 AM on June 30, 2023 [5 favorites]
And for a bit of a sneaky extra - if you have a friend who's a lawyer (or the friend of a friend), ask if you can CC: them at the bottom of the letter, even if they're like employment law or something unrelated. Sometimes even just hinting that you're speaking with a lawyer about this will get someone to cave. (My theater company was able to scare off someone who sent us a cease-and-desist letter because his "swim with dolphins" company had the same name as our theater company; we did exactly this, using the name of a lawyer we were friends with, and he backed off. ....even though her focus was on construction and housing as opposed to copyright law....)
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:48 AM on June 30, 2023 [5 favorites]
If they’re really replacing those items then it seems like they should at least give you the old ones (which they’re presumably discarding as unusable). I mean, they would be charging you the same amount if you’d taken them with you.
posted by staggernation at 8:03 AM on June 30, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by staggernation at 8:03 AM on June 30, 2023 [4 favorites]
Response by poster: Staggernation - that's what is frustrating - I don't have money for towels and throw blankets right now so if they were going to throw them away I would have taken them!
Thanks you everyone. I called the property management and left a message, then texted the property manager. She said the place was a mess and sent pictures of small (less than penny sized) faint marks on upholstery, dust bunnies, a dirty microwave (she's right I totally forgot to clean that) and two spills that must have been behind the couch but I know will wipe right off - because I did it with the same stuff (apple juice) before I left.
She asked for a copy of the receipt which I sent and she said $95 of those items were an error and she's happy to take it off. But I think that's not enough? Considering none of the pics are what the itemized receipt is replacing.
posted by pintapicasso at 10:27 AM on June 30, 2023 [1 favorite]
Thanks you everyone. I called the property management and left a message, then texted the property manager. She said the place was a mess and sent pictures of small (less than penny sized) faint marks on upholstery, dust bunnies, a dirty microwave (she's right I totally forgot to clean that) and two spills that must have been behind the couch but I know will wipe right off - because I did it with the same stuff (apple juice) before I left.
She asked for a copy of the receipt which I sent and she said $95 of those items were an error and she's happy to take it off. But I think that's not enough? Considering none of the pics are what the itemized receipt is replacing.
posted by pintapicasso at 10:27 AM on June 30, 2023 [1 favorite]
What is your state? Some states have triple damages if security deposits aren't returned on time. If there's already a cleaning fee in the lease then charging extra on top for what sounds like minor issues is going to be hard to justify.
Unfortunately if they don't agree your recourse is small claims court. In CA and in PA tenants are pretty successful in small claims but I can't speak for any other state.
posted by muddgirl at 10:53 AM on June 30, 2023
Unfortunately if they don't agree your recourse is small claims court. In CA and in PA tenants are pretty successful in small claims but I can't speak for any other state.
posted by muddgirl at 10:53 AM on June 30, 2023
Would you be OK splitting the difference? Something like "Since you have provided no evidence of stained or damaged towels or bedding, please refund $298 of my security deposit for those charges."
posted by muddgirl at 10:57 AM on June 30, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by muddgirl at 10:57 AM on June 30, 2023 [1 favorite]
This stuff is very specific to your location. 'Talk to a local tenant rights organisation' is always the best answer, because they know how to work with the local rules. It's worth your time.
(I would expect that they can withhold little to none of your deposit, and in fact are probably setting themselves up for damages if they do it incorrectly, but you need someone who knows the local rules.)
posted by How much is that froggie in the window at 11:02 AM on June 30, 2023 [1 favorite]
(I would expect that they can withhold little to none of your deposit, and in fact are probably setting themselves up for damages if they do it incorrectly, but you need someone who knows the local rules.)
posted by How much is that froggie in the window at 11:02 AM on June 30, 2023 [1 favorite]
My last rental, they tried to charge us $300 out of our bond for 'professional cleaning' after we left.
We'd already done a deep clean ourselves, so asked for photos.
A single drip of oil coming out of the hob extractor, and a tiny amount of dust on one skirting board in a corner of one room.
One flatmate had already left the country, but I was still in town and had some time. So we arranged a suitable time for the agent to supervise letting me back into the apartment to do the 'clean' they wanted to charge $300 for.
Once inside they took me to the 'problem areas'. I wiped once with a tissue in each area, and left. Took less than 2 minutes.
Time wasted by them in emailing / photos / supervised reentry to the apartment, erc, they could so easily have just wiped those two things themselves. But no.
Apparently agents here on average here will typically not back down three times when you point our your rights, hoping you back down first and they get to keep your money.
There's an increasing backlash by students (most common renters locally), against the rental agencies, and standing up for your legal rights and the return of your bond in full.
So long answer made shorter (agreeing with all points above too) : don't back down. Keep fighting for your rights. And I've also had great success with small claims courts locally with no lawyers required.
posted by many-things at 11:03 AM on June 30, 2023 [5 favorites]
We'd already done a deep clean ourselves, so asked for photos.
A single drip of oil coming out of the hob extractor, and a tiny amount of dust on one skirting board in a corner of one room.
One flatmate had already left the country, but I was still in town and had some time. So we arranged a suitable time for the agent to supervise letting me back into the apartment to do the 'clean' they wanted to charge $300 for.
Once inside they took me to the 'problem areas'. I wiped once with a tissue in each area, and left. Took less than 2 minutes.
Time wasted by them in emailing / photos / supervised reentry to the apartment, erc, they could so easily have just wiped those two things themselves. But no.
Apparently agents here on average here will typically not back down three times when you point our your rights, hoping you back down first and they get to keep your money.
There's an increasing backlash by students (most common renters locally), against the rental agencies, and standing up for your legal rights and the return of your bond in full.
So long answer made shorter (agreeing with all points above too) : don't back down. Keep fighting for your rights. And I've also had great success with small claims courts locally with no lawyers required.
posted by many-things at 11:03 AM on June 30, 2023 [5 favorites]
Does your lease agreement state anything about the condition of the linens? If they anticipate providing new linens to each tenant, then that should have been noted in the contract. Otherwise, you should be able to assume normal wear and tear would have covered that.
Also 5.5 hours of additional cleaning? They need some better cleaners! They need to document that stuff for you.
I think it's worth making a fuss, especially if you have the time to do so.
posted by hydra77 at 11:07 AM on June 30, 2023 [2 favorites]
Also 5.5 hours of additional cleaning? They need some better cleaners! They need to document that stuff for you.
I think it's worth making a fuss, especially if you have the time to do so.
posted by hydra77 at 11:07 AM on June 30, 2023 [2 favorites]
$300 seems like a staggering amount for towels and linens. Are we talking 2000-thread count Egyptian cotton or something??? I'd tell them to send an itemized receipt or small claims court. Tenants rights organizations would be helpful too, as the exact law will vary by your locale.
posted by basalganglia at 11:32 AM on June 30, 2023
posted by basalganglia at 11:32 AM on June 30, 2023
And for a bit of a sneaky extra - if you have a friend who's a lawyer (or the friend of a friend), ask if you can CC: them at the bottom of the letter, even if they're like employment law or something unrelated
As someone who occasionally deals with people in situations were lawyers might need to get involved (including literally tenants in a rental), I just love love love when this happens. Because A) it's obviously bullshit, because otherwise the first I'd even hear that a lawyer was involved would be directly from that lawyer, and B) I can safely just file the situation away and not ever think about it because it's in my best interest to wait for for official legal action, which is never going to happen, because of A).
You 100% need to be able to put your money where your mouth is when it comes to legal threats. Otherwise, it's worse for you than doing nothing.
posted by Back At It Again At Krispy Kreme at 11:35 AM on June 30, 2023 [8 favorites]
As someone who occasionally deals with people in situations were lawyers might need to get involved (including literally tenants in a rental), I just love love love when this happens. Because A) it's obviously bullshit, because otherwise the first I'd even hear that a lawyer was involved would be directly from that lawyer, and B) I can safely just file the situation away and not ever think about it because it's in my best interest to wait for for official legal action, which is never going to happen, because of A).
You 100% need to be able to put your money where your mouth is when it comes to legal threats. Otherwise, it's worse for you than doing nothing.
posted by Back At It Again At Krispy Kreme at 11:35 AM on June 30, 2023 [8 favorites]
Do your best to get everything in writing from here on out, and if you speak with anyone over the phone you can either 1) Record it, if you're in a one-party consent state, or 2) Write a follow-up email re-stating the phone conversation, e.g. "Per our phone conversation earlier today, you stated... We agreed upon..." etc.
posted by knucklebones at 12:15 PM on June 30, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by knucklebones at 12:15 PM on June 30, 2023 [1 favorite]
$300 is not an amount for lawyers. It costs that much to talk to one.
Take this conversation to email; you want it documented.
"Dear Property Mgr:
Thank you for correcting the charges of $95 for [whatever] which you mentioned were listed in error during our conversation today (June 30 2023.) However, my greater concern is that I have been billed for replacement of $300 worth of linens. I did not cause more than standard wear and tear to anything in the apartment, including any linens. In fact, most of the linens which you provided with the furnished rental were stored away by me and never used during my stay.
If you intend to charge me to replace linens which you say are damaged, I am going to need to see the damaged items, and I am going to need to take those items with me, since I will be paying for their replacement.
If there is no evidence of the linens being damaged, and this charge was made in error, please let me know at your earliest convenience and provide the full amount of my deposit.
I am happy to swing by your office next week to see the damaged linens, if they exist. Please let me know how you would like to proceed.
Thank you very much, etc.
(once that's sent you can do the research on the actual law.)
posted by fingersandtoes at 3:06 PM on June 30, 2023 [12 favorites]
Take this conversation to email; you want it documented.
"Dear Property Mgr:
Thank you for correcting the charges of $95 for [whatever] which you mentioned were listed in error during our conversation today (June 30 2023.) However, my greater concern is that I have been billed for replacement of $300 worth of linens. I did not cause more than standard wear and tear to anything in the apartment, including any linens. In fact, most of the linens which you provided with the furnished rental were stored away by me and never used during my stay.
If you intend to charge me to replace linens which you say are damaged, I am going to need to see the damaged items, and I am going to need to take those items with me, since I will be paying for their replacement.
If there is no evidence of the linens being damaged, and this charge was made in error, please let me know at your earliest convenience and provide the full amount of my deposit.
I am happy to swing by your office next week to see the damaged linens, if they exist. Please let me know how you would like to proceed.
Thank you very much, etc.
(once that's sent you can do the research on the actual law.)
posted by fingersandtoes at 3:06 PM on June 30, 2023 [12 favorites]
I’m sorry this happened!
The laws on this stuff do tend to be very local but it never hurts to try to search for any standardized legal language that a local tenant advocate group uses for these situations. Depending on where you live, landlords who play bad faith games about returning deposits may be charged fines. I used to live in Washington DC where bad faith stealing the security deposit results in 3x damages paid to the tenant.
Sadly, a lot of landlords assume with small $ damages you won’t go through the hassle of small claims court (if you’re in the US) but it’s not actually that big of a deal.
posted by forkisbetter at 9:13 AM on July 1, 2023
The laws on this stuff do tend to be very local but it never hurts to try to search for any standardized legal language that a local tenant advocate group uses for these situations. Depending on where you live, landlords who play bad faith games about returning deposits may be charged fines. I used to live in Washington DC where bad faith stealing the security deposit results in 3x damages paid to the tenant.
Sadly, a lot of landlords assume with small $ damages you won’t go through the hassle of small claims court (if you’re in the US) but it’s not actually that big of a deal.
posted by forkisbetter at 9:13 AM on July 1, 2023
I'm a landlord and one of my properties is a furnished apartment, which includes linens and kitchen items. I've never kept a tenant's deposit for anything other than obvious damage that renders an item completely unusable. I consider things like linens, plates, flatware, etc. an assumed loss at the end of every lease and wouldn't charge for their replacement unless they were stolen or irreparably damaged (for example, one tenant used a white towel to dye her hair black). Simply using an item as intended would not be grounds to charge for its replacement.
posted by mezzanayne at 9:48 AM on July 1, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by mezzanayne at 9:48 AM on July 1, 2023 [3 favorites]
Response by poster: Update - After a week of back-and-forth emailing between me, the property management lead, and their lawyers - they agreed to give me all but $75 back. Which is roughly what it would cost to take this case to small claims court. So I consider it a win!
Thank you thank you thank you thank you for helping me with this. Your validation DEFINITELY gave me the confidence to pick apart every single dollar they withheld. This money is life-changing. Yay metafilter!
posted by pintapicasso at 3:00 PM on July 25, 2023 [5 favorites]
Thank you thank you thank you thank you for helping me with this. Your validation DEFINITELY gave me the confidence to pick apart every single dollar they withheld. This money is life-changing. Yay metafilter!
posted by pintapicasso at 3:00 PM on July 25, 2023 [5 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by raccoon409 at 7:20 AM on June 30, 2023 [22 favorites]