How do I escape my sister?
June 10, 2023 1:59 AM Subscribe
I have five living siblings. We are there for each other when needed - except one is there when not needed.
My siblings and I are very supportive of each other, and we can count on each other. However, we are independent and don't keep in close contact. That's exactly the way I like it. Most of us live thousands of miles from each other. One of my younger siblings had a nearly year-long serious illness. That sibling lives in my city, so the care-taking fell on me, which is fine. There was a lot of emailing, phone-calling, and zooming among my siblings and myself regarding younger sibling's health status during that time. Younger sibling's medication worked, and younger sibling is recovered.
However, my oldest sister has become waaaaaaay too clingy toward me and it is absolutely driving me nuts. She keeps wanting to discuss younger sibling's illness. I told her I'm burned out discussing it, that the medication is working, that younger sibling is fine now, that there is no longer anything to discuss.
Younger sibling will only communicate with older sister via limited snail-mail, as older sister has been very mean to younger sibling in the past. This is a very healthy decision by younger sibling. Older sister has been equally mean to me. Older sister can be very generous, but then turn on a dime and be quite cruel for no reason. If someone is cruel to older sister, she never forgets it. In other words, she can dish it out but she can't take it.
Older sister asks me things like, "Do you think if I come to visit this summer, it will be okay with younger sibling?" I replied, "I don't know the answer to that question, and I don't want to be the conduit between you two."
Older sister has pretty much ceased talking to me about younger sibling, but there is still a problem. Older sister appears to want to be my buddy and my email "pen-pal". She emails me every single day, up to about five times per day, and occasionally calls me on the phone. It's really stressing me and making me feel smothered. I love her, but I don't want to be buddies with her, and I don't want any "pen-pals".
And she keeps sending me stuff (several jigsaw puzzles are currently on the way to me). I have enough stuff. I don't want or need any more stuff. If I need stuff, I'll buy my own stuff.
I just want my sister to get a life of her own and quit being so clingy.
I would normally consult with my wonderful therapist, but he recently retired. I really want my sister to leave me alone like she used to. I was so much happier with our relationship when it just consisted of sending a Christmas card and a birthday card.
I don't want to be her buddy/pen-pal at all. Any advice as to how to get her to back off and stop clinging to me?
My siblings and I are very supportive of each other, and we can count on each other. However, we are independent and don't keep in close contact. That's exactly the way I like it. Most of us live thousands of miles from each other. One of my younger siblings had a nearly year-long serious illness. That sibling lives in my city, so the care-taking fell on me, which is fine. There was a lot of emailing, phone-calling, and zooming among my siblings and myself regarding younger sibling's health status during that time. Younger sibling's medication worked, and younger sibling is recovered.
However, my oldest sister has become waaaaaaay too clingy toward me and it is absolutely driving me nuts. She keeps wanting to discuss younger sibling's illness. I told her I'm burned out discussing it, that the medication is working, that younger sibling is fine now, that there is no longer anything to discuss.
Younger sibling will only communicate with older sister via limited snail-mail, as older sister has been very mean to younger sibling in the past. This is a very healthy decision by younger sibling. Older sister has been equally mean to me. Older sister can be very generous, but then turn on a dime and be quite cruel for no reason. If someone is cruel to older sister, she never forgets it. In other words, she can dish it out but she can't take it.
Older sister asks me things like, "Do you think if I come to visit this summer, it will be okay with younger sibling?" I replied, "I don't know the answer to that question, and I don't want to be the conduit between you two."
Older sister has pretty much ceased talking to me about younger sibling, but there is still a problem. Older sister appears to want to be my buddy and my email "pen-pal". She emails me every single day, up to about five times per day, and occasionally calls me on the phone. It's really stressing me and making me feel smothered. I love her, but I don't want to be buddies with her, and I don't want any "pen-pals".
And she keeps sending me stuff (several jigsaw puzzles are currently on the way to me). I have enough stuff. I don't want or need any more stuff. If I need stuff, I'll buy my own stuff.
I just want my sister to get a life of her own and quit being so clingy.
I would normally consult with my wonderful therapist, but he recently retired. I really want my sister to leave me alone like she used to. I was so much happier with our relationship when it just consisted of sending a Christmas card and a birthday card.
I don't want to be her buddy/pen-pal at all. Any advice as to how to get her to back off and stop clinging to me?
Are you responding to all of those emails and calls promptly? You definitely do not have to do that. It’s fine to set aside some time once a week or once a month or quarterly or however often you’d actually like to be in touch, go through the emails, and send one response to anything that you actually want to respond to. If you want to minimize drama about it you could transition slowly in that direction, spacing out your replies more and more.
On the gifts, it’s worth a try at telling her you’re trying to declutter and really don’t want any more stuff around, so you appreciate her thought but would like her to stop sending gifts. But it may be that you have to take the hit of donating the puzzles or whatever, if she won’t stop.
Lots of sympathy here from one independent sibling to another - this would drive me absolutely batty.
posted by Stacey at 4:39 AM on June 10, 2023 [2 favorites]
On the gifts, it’s worth a try at telling her you’re trying to declutter and really don’t want any more stuff around, so you appreciate her thought but would like her to stop sending gifts. But it may be that you have to take the hit of donating the puzzles or whatever, if she won’t stop.
Lots of sympathy here from one independent sibling to another - this would drive me absolutely batty.
posted by Stacey at 4:39 AM on June 10, 2023 [2 favorites]
At one end of the spectrum, a real solution is family therapy, a safe space to actually be honest—full and truthful—and to negotiate the relationship consciously. This many not be actually feasible, but it is one option to consider in the solution space. If it is feasible, it’s the most autonomy respecting solution, because it involves telling the truth, that you would like to have a more distant relationship. This very well may not be safe in this particular situation, however.
posted by The Last Sockpuppet at 5:17 AM on June 10, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by The Last Sockpuppet at 5:17 AM on June 10, 2023 [1 favorite]
Yeah, don't answer each mail, pick up every call, etc...When asked, just say, did not have a chance to see that.
In some cases, communication and boundary setting can work. But that means you have to be clear and follow through, which you may or may not be able to do. This would be a letter or conversation where you tell you sibling what you can offer as far as being in contact. Then you would calmly enforce that boundary. And then endure the possible pushback and fall out you might get.
But, with some people, this can be wildly unrealistic.
In any case, I'd reframe this as not "how can I make my sister stop being so clingy" but, "what am I doing that makes sister think this is okay?" Something on your end is feeding the behavior, you have to figure out what. It might simply be that this person is the older sibling and you have been programmed to respond in a certain, obedient way. (This is just a guess, but the sending of gifts seems to fit in with that dynamic?)
I had a situation that was not the same but did involve communication from a sibling. I hated the interactions, but realized a part of me did enjoy them because they proved what a mess my sibling was and how her life was a trainwreck. This was enlightening enough to help me go full no-contact, to the betterment of my state of mind. It also allowed me to not be so tethered to the family traditions of role enforcement, which as much as I did not like, I always participated in.
I’m not saying you should go full no contact (unless that is what you want), and your other sister's illness is a legitimate concern. So, telling problem sister to talk directly to previously ill sister was fine, but I would also communicate that "If things change and there is a medical emergency/update, I will let you know.”
Good luck.
posted by rhonzo at 6:01 AM on June 10, 2023 [1 favorite]
In some cases, communication and boundary setting can work. But that means you have to be clear and follow through, which you may or may not be able to do. This would be a letter or conversation where you tell you sibling what you can offer as far as being in contact. Then you would calmly enforce that boundary. And then endure the possible pushback and fall out you might get.
But, with some people, this can be wildly unrealistic.
In any case, I'd reframe this as not "how can I make my sister stop being so clingy" but, "what am I doing that makes sister think this is okay?" Something on your end is feeding the behavior, you have to figure out what. It might simply be that this person is the older sibling and you have been programmed to respond in a certain, obedient way. (This is just a guess, but the sending of gifts seems to fit in with that dynamic?)
I had a situation that was not the same but did involve communication from a sibling. I hated the interactions, but realized a part of me did enjoy them because they proved what a mess my sibling was and how her life was a trainwreck. This was enlightening enough to help me go full no-contact, to the betterment of my state of mind. It also allowed me to not be so tethered to the family traditions of role enforcement, which as much as I did not like, I always participated in.
I’m not saying you should go full no contact (unless that is what you want), and your other sister's illness is a legitimate concern. So, telling problem sister to talk directly to previously ill sister was fine, but I would also communicate that "If things change and there is a medical emergency/update, I will let you know.”
Good luck.
posted by rhonzo at 6:01 AM on June 10, 2023 [1 favorite]
Without seeing her communications, it's hard to know whether she is just sending you stream of conscious chatter or whether these are all things that demand a response? Because you don't have to respond. Are you currently feeling the need to stop what you're doing and respond to everything she says? Because this could be feeding the behaviour.
I am highly communicative with my siblings to an extent that it sounds like you would certainly dislike, but there is an unspoken understanding that they only reply when they have time and if they feel like it, unless it's something really important e.g. about our parent's health etc. Most of the time I send them stupid memes, random stream of consciousness chatter, etc, and it's nice when they reply, but I don't really expect it. I'd stop if they told me to. But they never have. Could this be how your older sibling is trying to position you? As you live far apart and, it sounds like, you used to speak rarely, do you know if this is how she generally relates with people? Some people are just very communicative. You're allowed to find it annoying, though!
But it sounds like she understands boundaries when spelled out to her (e.g. she doesn't talk to your sister and she doesn't talk about your sister's illness with you), so it sounds like you should be okay to set down the boundary and she will respect it. I would start with not being so present for her, if in fact you are feeling the pressure to be more present with her than you want.
posted by unicorn chaser at 7:17 AM on June 10, 2023 [2 favorites]
I am highly communicative with my siblings to an extent that it sounds like you would certainly dislike, but there is an unspoken understanding that they only reply when they have time and if they feel like it, unless it's something really important e.g. about our parent's health etc. Most of the time I send them stupid memes, random stream of consciousness chatter, etc, and it's nice when they reply, but I don't really expect it. I'd stop if they told me to. But they never have. Could this be how your older sibling is trying to position you? As you live far apart and, it sounds like, you used to speak rarely, do you know if this is how she generally relates with people? Some people are just very communicative. You're allowed to find it annoying, though!
But it sounds like she understands boundaries when spelled out to her (e.g. she doesn't talk to your sister and she doesn't talk about your sister's illness with you), so it sounds like you should be okay to set down the boundary and she will respect it. I would start with not being so present for her, if in fact you are feeling the pressure to be more present with her than you want.
posted by unicorn chaser at 7:17 AM on June 10, 2023 [2 favorites]
Have you heard of the grey rock method? I've found it to be really effective and there's tons of info on the internet about using it when interacting with narcicissts.
Also, I'd encourage you to stop thinking of this as her "clinging" to you, or being generous, or giving you gifts, and start thinking of this as her manipulating you.
She's not calling you all the time because she's dying to talk to you, she's calling you because she wants to use you as a way to get at youngest sister.
I keep thinking of this one tiktok-er who goes by Your Petty Spirit Guide whose whole thing is encouraging people to tell others to fuck off early and often. One thing he says a lot is "protect your peace." Or "a well placed fuck off might be the reason you have a peaceful day." I feel like this is the energy you need in your life. You sound like a really nice person but you have a right to protect your peace and have a peaceful day.
posted by selfmedicating at 8:10 AM on June 10, 2023 [6 favorites]
Also, I'd encourage you to stop thinking of this as her "clinging" to you, or being generous, or giving you gifts, and start thinking of this as her manipulating you.
She's not calling you all the time because she's dying to talk to you, she's calling you because she wants to use you as a way to get at youngest sister.
I keep thinking of this one tiktok-er who goes by Your Petty Spirit Guide whose whole thing is encouraging people to tell others to fuck off early and often. One thing he says a lot is "protect your peace." Or "a well placed fuck off might be the reason you have a peaceful day." I feel like this is the energy you need in your life. You sound like a really nice person but you have a right to protect your peace and have a peaceful day.
posted by selfmedicating at 8:10 AM on June 10, 2023 [6 favorites]
Do what your young sibling did: snail mail only. You don't have an obligation to answer their every whim.
While it's nice that you want to keep the peace, self-preservation must take precedence.
posted by kschang at 9:13 AM on June 10, 2023 [1 favorite]
While it's nice that you want to keep the peace, self-preservation must take precedence.
posted by kschang at 9:13 AM on June 10, 2023 [1 favorite]
Older sister has given you a gift: she has created an opportunity for you to be "at choice" (and I suspect that is the advice your recently-retired therapist would give you). That is, you get to decide how often, and in what format, you wish to have contact with her and then implement that decision. If it's snail mail only, as younger sister has chosen, so be it. It it's no contact at all beyond birthday and Christmas greetings, which you indicated has previously suited you very well, that's your choice. Older sister will do whatever she does, and that's her choice, but you also have a choice in the matter. Exercise it.
posted by DrGail at 9:43 AM on June 10, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by DrGail at 9:43 AM on June 10, 2023 [1 favorite]
Older sister has been 'generous' and maybe that's her love language/ means of manipulation. It's not uncommon. Focus on your own needs OlderSister, I don't have time/ energy for frequent emails and calls. I'll do my best to catch up when I can. Use a rule to put her emails in a folder, ignore calls and texts.
Send her 1 email saying If there's meaningful news, I will contact you. Otherwise, I'm not discussing it. and stick to it. Don't reply to more questions about YoungerSister. OlderSister needs distraction, so, if you want, send her books, music, interesting articles, hobby links. I have a sister who is not mentally healthy and is either silent and fuming, or similar to yours. Suggest therapy; she can pay someone to listen. Really, it's part of what therapists do, being a repository for angst. All of this is you making some effort to establish and enforce boundaries, an effort that is repaid many times.
You, YoungerSister, OlderSister, have been through trauma, at varying levels, obv. Thanks for taking care of YoungerSuster, she sounds like she's managing well. OlderSister has built-up frustration and worry, again, a good reason for therapy. You need time and space to take care of yourself, and it's okay to say that to OlderSister.
posted by theora55 at 10:00 AM on June 10, 2023 [3 favorites]
Send her 1 email saying If there's meaningful news, I will contact you. Otherwise, I'm not discussing it. and stick to it. Don't reply to more questions about YoungerSister. OlderSister needs distraction, so, if you want, send her books, music, interesting articles, hobby links. I have a sister who is not mentally healthy and is either silent and fuming, or similar to yours. Suggest therapy; she can pay someone to listen. Really, it's part of what therapists do, being a repository for angst. All of this is you making some effort to establish and enforce boundaries, an effort that is repaid many times.
You, YoungerSister, OlderSister, have been through trauma, at varying levels, obv. Thanks for taking care of YoungerSuster, she sounds like she's managing well. OlderSister has built-up frustration and worry, again, a good reason for therapy. You need time and space to take care of yourself, and it's okay to say that to OlderSister.
posted by theora55 at 10:00 AM on June 10, 2023 [3 favorites]
Wow some of these responses are extremely harsh and limited.
Your sister is a person. That means she has her own life and reality. Something has shifted in her reality to make her feel like e-mailing you 5 (!!!) times a day.
I would suggest that the first step here is to ASK her what has shifted. Like this: pick up the phone and call her. "Sis, I have to ask. Why are you emailing me five times a day? Are you ok? What has happened to cause this volume of communication?"
My guess is that you are going to hear that she is lonely. But that is just my guess.
In any case, you will have now opened the conversation so that you have some information as to what is going on, and you can state your own needs. Like this: "I'm sorry to hear that [x}. But I can't handle this volume of communications, I just don't have the emotional bandwidth; I've gotta take it down a notch. I know you understand. I'm still here, like I was before Youngest got sick. Let's go back to that. Love you."
posted by fingersandtoes at 10:06 AM on June 10, 2023 [23 favorites]
Your sister is a person. That means she has her own life and reality. Something has shifted in her reality to make her feel like e-mailing you 5 (!!!) times a day.
I would suggest that the first step here is to ASK her what has shifted. Like this: pick up the phone and call her. "Sis, I have to ask. Why are you emailing me five times a day? Are you ok? What has happened to cause this volume of communication?"
My guess is that you are going to hear that she is lonely. But that is just my guess.
In any case, you will have now opened the conversation so that you have some information as to what is going on, and you can state your own needs. Like this: "I'm sorry to hear that [x}. But I can't handle this volume of communications, I just don't have the emotional bandwidth; I've gotta take it down a notch. I know you understand. I'm still here, like I was before Youngest got sick. Let's go back to that. Love you."
posted by fingersandtoes at 10:06 AM on June 10, 2023 [23 favorites]
What if you just gradually replied less and less frequently? If you're okay with creating a rift, then you have a lot more options, but be prepared for that to bring some time-sucking emotional drama with it and perhaps derail you from reaching this "we mail each other cards a couple times each year and love each other" vibe you're heading for. For me, I think a white lie about how busy you are, or just letting all your current activities and need for self-care to take priority and then communicating that, has a lot of merit. "I'm getting really busy with training for this triathlon" "oh sorry I missed your call! I was out on a training ride" "so sorry I haven't emailed - I come home exhausted and fall asleep. How have you been?" etc.
I did set aside the "she's cruel" and "she is sensitive to getting hurt" pieces for now. This would be hard even with an emotionally healthy person who just got very connected to you over a family illness situation. If your Ask had been about wanting to cut ties, I'd be writing more like some of these other comments about, yeah, just be very explicit about what you want and then enforce it like you would any boundary (which it sounds like you know how to do well already). But it sounds like things are kind of okay with her right now except for the frequency and that you want to ramp things back down to an infrequent level of contact. Given her sensitivity etc., I think tapering things off is the lowest drama way to do it. As you reply less, she'll have to get more of a life.
There might be some kind of temporary "we never talk anymore! why is your triathlon more important than me!??" extinction burst that I would handle in a low drama way and be careful not to reward, "I know, my life has been keeping me so busy lately. You're my sister and I love you, I just can't email that much."
I'm not saying that your excuse has to be that you're busy -- it could be that you're trying to stay off the computer or whatever -- the point is that you explain what you're doing more in terms of what you're doing instead and less as not wanting to talk to HER. No way for that not to hurt at least a little.
posted by slidell at 10:20 AM on June 10, 2023 [3 favorites]
I did set aside the "she's cruel" and "she is sensitive to getting hurt" pieces for now. This would be hard even with an emotionally healthy person who just got very connected to you over a family illness situation. If your Ask had been about wanting to cut ties, I'd be writing more like some of these other comments about, yeah, just be very explicit about what you want and then enforce it like you would any boundary (which it sounds like you know how to do well already). But it sounds like things are kind of okay with her right now except for the frequency and that you want to ramp things back down to an infrequent level of contact. Given her sensitivity etc., I think tapering things off is the lowest drama way to do it. As you reply less, she'll have to get more of a life.
There might be some kind of temporary "we never talk anymore! why is your triathlon more important than me!??" extinction burst that I would handle in a low drama way and be careful not to reward, "I know, my life has been keeping me so busy lately. You're my sister and I love you, I just can't email that much."
I'm not saying that your excuse has to be that you're busy -- it could be that you're trying to stay off the computer or whatever -- the point is that you explain what you're doing more in terms of what you're doing instead and less as not wanting to talk to HER. No way for that not to hurt at least a little.
posted by slidell at 10:20 AM on June 10, 2023 [3 favorites]
Mefi will always come down on the "boundaries, by brute force if necessary!!!" side, but it sounds to me like you don't consider your sister abusive, just someone who you probably wouldn't choose to spend time with if she wasn't your sister, but, as she is, you do want to maintain some level of ties with. Just not what she seems to be bidding for.
And, bluntly, if you're getting to the age where people are having serious illnesses, and especially if you're not married and don't have kids, maintaining that social network is a good idea.
If you aren't up to making a phone call like fingersandtoes suggests, respond to one of three emails/calls/etc. Don't get pointed about it. Gently breezy semi-neglect is the goal here. And, since it particularly bothers you, if she starts asking about other sibling again, you can tell her that now that other sibling is doing better, it's better for them to communicate directly.
posted by praemunire at 10:30 AM on June 10, 2023 [6 favorites]
And, bluntly, if you're getting to the age where people are having serious illnesses, and especially if you're not married and don't have kids, maintaining that social network is a good idea.
If you aren't up to making a phone call like fingersandtoes suggests, respond to one of three emails/calls/etc. Don't get pointed about it. Gently breezy semi-neglect is the goal here. And, since it particularly bothers you, if she starts asking about other sibling again, you can tell her that now that other sibling is doing better, it's better for them to communicate directly.
posted by praemunire at 10:30 AM on June 10, 2023 [6 favorites]
About my "just taper off" idea, I also want to add that it's really aligned with the "gray rock" approach if she really is abusive. (I'm not trying to minimize your experience - I just don't feel like I totally understand how you feel and how she is.)
From that link above, "abusive people thrive on emotions and drama. When you act indifferent and don’t show your emotions, they may lose interest and stop bothering you." So a lot of the goal is to avoid drama. If you have a big Talk about how you need to be in contact less with certain kinds of people, boom! drama bomb goes off in your life, they're offended, they start talking to everyone about this, they want to talk about it again with you, everyone calls you to talk about this, etc. etc.
All of that is stuff you could handle with consistent application of boundaries (though with your therapist gone, you'd have less support), but that's what I mean about "if you're okay with creating a rift, then you have a lot more options." If she's that type of person, you totally could just say "this is what I want" and put up a force field to protect you from the drama bomb. But you couldn't stop the drama bomb from going off no matter how well you explained yourself, and then you'd be living under a force field in relation to her and anyone she pulls onto her side. On preview, I totally agree: "Gently breezy semi-neglect is the goal here."
posted by slidell at 10:40 AM on June 10, 2023 [1 favorite]
From that link above, "abusive people thrive on emotions and drama. When you act indifferent and don’t show your emotions, they may lose interest and stop bothering you." So a lot of the goal is to avoid drama. If you have a big Talk about how you need to be in contact less with certain kinds of people, boom! drama bomb goes off in your life, they're offended, they start talking to everyone about this, they want to talk about it again with you, everyone calls you to talk about this, etc. etc.
All of that is stuff you could handle with consistent application of boundaries (though with your therapist gone, you'd have less support), but that's what I mean about "if you're okay with creating a rift, then you have a lot more options." If she's that type of person, you totally could just say "this is what I want" and put up a force field to protect you from the drama bomb. But you couldn't stop the drama bomb from going off no matter how well you explained yourself, and then you'd be living under a force field in relation to her and anyone she pulls onto her side. On preview, I totally agree: "Gently breezy semi-neglect is the goal here."
posted by slidell at 10:40 AM on June 10, 2023 [1 favorite]
One of my favourite quotes is "you're not required to set yourself on fire to keep other people warm."
It sounds to me like Older Sister might be going through a wake-up call after Younger Sibling's illness, especially since Younger Sibling is maintaining very strong boundaries. She might feel like you're her only hope of real family connection. But, while framing it that way might help you think of her with some compassion as someone in pain rather than someone who is deliberately trying to manipulate you, her problems are not your responsibility. She would probably benefit from taking a look at her own situation and finding a way to change the things in her own life that are making her uncomfortable.
On a practical level, I'm a fan of white lies along the lines of being very, very busy, not being able to keep on top of e-mail, having problems that send certain e-mails "mysteriously" to junk mail where they are not seen for several days, "forgetting" that you "accidentally" turned off notifications for her texts or calls, being tired and going to bed early and not looking at messages, etc. etc.. Start by responding only once every three days or so, and taper down to a level you're comfortable with.
Who knows, maybe not having you as an outlet might encourage her to take action on her other issues.
posted by rpfields at 12:37 PM on June 10, 2023 [3 favorites]
It sounds to me like Older Sister might be going through a wake-up call after Younger Sibling's illness, especially since Younger Sibling is maintaining very strong boundaries. She might feel like you're her only hope of real family connection. But, while framing it that way might help you think of her with some compassion as someone in pain rather than someone who is deliberately trying to manipulate you, her problems are not your responsibility. She would probably benefit from taking a look at her own situation and finding a way to change the things in her own life that are making her uncomfortable.
On a practical level, I'm a fan of white lies along the lines of being very, very busy, not being able to keep on top of e-mail, having problems that send certain e-mails "mysteriously" to junk mail where they are not seen for several days, "forgetting" that you "accidentally" turned off notifications for her texts or calls, being tired and going to bed early and not looking at messages, etc. etc.. Start by responding only once every three days or so, and taper down to a level you're comfortable with.
Who knows, maybe not having you as an outlet might encourage her to take action on her other issues.
posted by rpfields at 12:37 PM on June 10, 2023 [3 favorites]
Response by poster: Thank you all for your advice; it is SO appreciated!
Younger sibling, who will only communicate with older sister via snail mail because of the cruel way older sister has treated younger sibling on the phone in the past, had sent flowers to older sister for her birthday this month. Older sister then phoned me to ask if I thought it would be okay if she phoned younger sibling to say thank you. I responded that I don't have the answer to that question and that I don't want to be the conduit between her and younger sibling. Older sister later sent birthday flowers to younger sibling (their birthdays are in the same month) and then emailed me to ask me if younger sibling said anything to me about having received the flowers. I reminded her that I don't want to be the conduit between the two of them and that it would be best for her to assume that the flowers were received and to be optimistic that she will receive a snail-mail thank you note. I then explained to her that I am not a daily talk about the weather chit-chat e-mailer with anyone, that it is just not my style, and that almost the only emails/texts/phone calls I exchange with people are facts, a la, What time will you arrive?
The advice, above, to have a heart-to-heart talk with older sister about what has shifted in her reality is excellent, but I believe my sister is not a rational enough person for that to be effective. She has screamed wildly at my brother who was kindly driving her to the airport because she felt he wasn't taking the correct route, and she screamed wildly at one of her best friends who was staying at her house providing care for her post-surgery because she felt best friend was talking too much (needless to say, friend rarely speaks with her anymore). I have suggested in the past that she consider taking antidepressants, but she said she doesn't want to. She does take prescription benzodiazepines sometimes, though.
posted by SageTrail at 7:54 AM on June 12, 2023 [2 favorites]
Younger sibling, who will only communicate with older sister via snail mail because of the cruel way older sister has treated younger sibling on the phone in the past, had sent flowers to older sister for her birthday this month. Older sister then phoned me to ask if I thought it would be okay if she phoned younger sibling to say thank you. I responded that I don't have the answer to that question and that I don't want to be the conduit between her and younger sibling. Older sister later sent birthday flowers to younger sibling (their birthdays are in the same month) and then emailed me to ask me if younger sibling said anything to me about having received the flowers. I reminded her that I don't want to be the conduit between the two of them and that it would be best for her to assume that the flowers were received and to be optimistic that she will receive a snail-mail thank you note. I then explained to her that I am not a daily talk about the weather chit-chat e-mailer with anyone, that it is just not my style, and that almost the only emails/texts/phone calls I exchange with people are facts, a la, What time will you arrive?
The advice, above, to have a heart-to-heart talk with older sister about what has shifted in her reality is excellent, but I believe my sister is not a rational enough person for that to be effective. She has screamed wildly at my brother who was kindly driving her to the airport because she felt he wasn't taking the correct route, and she screamed wildly at one of her best friends who was staying at her house providing care for her post-surgery because she felt best friend was talking too much (needless to say, friend rarely speaks with her anymore). I have suggested in the past that she consider taking antidepressants, but she said she doesn't want to. She does take prescription benzodiazepines sometimes, though.
posted by SageTrail at 7:54 AM on June 12, 2023 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: p.s. So now she will know why I am no longer replying to all of her emails. Even better, maybe she will send waaaay less of them. Crossing my fingers. Thanks again!!
posted by SageTrail at 8:25 AM on June 12, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by SageTrail at 8:25 AM on June 12, 2023 [3 favorites]
I reminded her that I don't want to be the conduit between the two of them
Great! And now that you've clarified that twice, I'd suggest that the next time she asks about something like that would require to consider being the conduit, you wait a couple of weeks to reply, or just ignore the question completely. She knows the answer.
It sounds like you are taking great steps to set and maintain healthy boundaries. There might be an extinction burst as she tries harder to get you to do what she wants, but eventually she will realize that it just doesn't work.
posted by rpfields at 8:29 AM on June 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
Great! And now that you've clarified that twice, I'd suggest that the next time she asks about something like that would require to consider being the conduit, you wait a couple of weeks to reply, or just ignore the question completely. She knows the answer.
It sounds like you are taking great steps to set and maintain healthy boundaries. There might be an extinction burst as she tries harder to get you to do what she wants, but eventually she will realize that it just doesn't work.
posted by rpfields at 8:29 AM on June 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
Certain personalities have problems accepting changing circumstances. Your sister may be having problems accepting the situation she no longer have control over, so she's lashing out by trying to control everything else (ignore me, I'm sound like a psychoanalyst) She's rational enough to realize what she did before is no longer working, so there is hope. But you have to stick to your own boundaries instead of making friendly gestures after a while, leading her to conclude that "it worked after all, I just have to be persistent". Nor should you send "passive-aggressive" mixed signals. Be direct, no being polite and courteous. If siblings can't be honest, they may as well be strangers.
posted by kschang at 8:40 AM on June 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by kschang at 8:40 AM on June 13, 2023 [1 favorite]
like others before me, I advise not taking anyone's calls or emails if you do not want to hear from or speak to them. but I don't understand why, if you are going to respond at all, you don't tell her the answer (or refuse to answer) instead of claiming not to know it. after reading your question, I know whether or not your younger sister would welcome a visit from your older sister, and I've never met either of them.
anyway, everything sounds like your sister is devoted to repairing her relationships with both of you, although she is not equipped to do so, and believes that continually demonstrating her interest and never giving up is the right way to go about it; and neither of you is having it, not now and probably not ever. that is fine and fair. but as long as you don't want to deal with the reaction she will have from hearing it, she is not going to know. the only way to make her understand that you don't want gifts from her and don't welcome any forms of regular contact from her is to tell her so.
I am not discounting the extreme discomfort that comes with saying this kind of thing out loud, even if you didn't expect an awful reaction, and in your place I would never do this. I would just ignore the calls and throw away the packages forever or until one of us died. but avoidance, as wonderful as it is and as highly as I recommend it, is not going to make her spontaneously retreat to a distant civility. the "grey rock" business people love so much is not a form of communication, it is a way to frustrate those who will not be communicated with. as such, it is very satisfying to practice. but the people it is used on can't learn anything from it, it's designed not to let them. as long as you don't mind that, it's fine.
with family even more than with friends and partners it is almost impossible not to believe that so-and-so knows what they did, and so does not need to be told what it was or how anyone feels about it. and in fact you do not need to tell her anything. but I find that people very rarely do know what it is they have done, not really.
posted by queenofbithynia at 3:11 PM on June 13, 2023
anyway, everything sounds like your sister is devoted to repairing her relationships with both of you, although she is not equipped to do so, and believes that continually demonstrating her interest and never giving up is the right way to go about it; and neither of you is having it, not now and probably not ever. that is fine and fair. but as long as you don't want to deal with the reaction she will have from hearing it, she is not going to know. the only way to make her understand that you don't want gifts from her and don't welcome any forms of regular contact from her is to tell her so.
I am not discounting the extreme discomfort that comes with saying this kind of thing out loud, even if you didn't expect an awful reaction, and in your place I would never do this. I would just ignore the calls and throw away the packages forever or until one of us died. but avoidance, as wonderful as it is and as highly as I recommend it, is not going to make her spontaneously retreat to a distant civility. the "grey rock" business people love so much is not a form of communication, it is a way to frustrate those who will not be communicated with. as such, it is very satisfying to practice. but the people it is used on can't learn anything from it, it's designed not to let them. as long as you don't mind that, it's fine.
with family even more than with friends and partners it is almost impossible not to believe that so-and-so knows what they did, and so does not need to be told what it was or how anyone feels about it. and in fact you do not need to tell her anything. but I find that people very rarely do know what it is they have done, not really.
posted by queenofbithynia at 3:11 PM on June 13, 2023
Response by poster: "but I don't understand why...you don't tell her the answer (or refuse to answer) instead of claiming not to know it. after reading your question, I know whether or not your younger sister would welcome a visit from your older sister, and I've never met either of them."
Because I don't know the answer; I am not in younger sibling's head and I don't know how, at any given moment, younger sibling feels about it - perhaps younger sibling's feelings about it are not static - only younger sibling knows that. Older sister needs to hear it directly from younger sibling, not from me. Also, it is not my responsibility to communicate on behalf of younger sibling, nor to be the communication facilitator between the two of them - I have no obligation to take on that role, and I don't have to do it if I don't want to.
I also noted that many here have referred to "younger sister". I can't find where I had mentioned that younger sibling was a sister.
posted by SageTrail at 11:38 AM on June 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
Because I don't know the answer; I am not in younger sibling's head and I don't know how, at any given moment, younger sibling feels about it - perhaps younger sibling's feelings about it are not static - only younger sibling knows that. Older sister needs to hear it directly from younger sibling, not from me. Also, it is not my responsibility to communicate on behalf of younger sibling, nor to be the communication facilitator between the two of them - I have no obligation to take on that role, and I don't have to do it if I don't want to.
I also noted that many here have referred to "younger sister". I can't find where I had mentioned that younger sibling was a sister.
posted by SageTrail at 11:38 AM on June 14, 2023 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
You don’t have to do any of that. How often were you in touch before your younger sister became ill? Who initiated that contact?
What happens if you tell your sister that you appreciate she’s thinking of you during the day but that you don’t have the capacity to constantly check your email and talk daily. You’d like to go back to whatever was normal before now that the crisis is over?
Then you have explained and then you set up a rule in your mailbox and file emails from your sister for future perusal at your leisure, you answer the phone when you feel like it and you donate all the puzzles to your local assisted living place or wherever they might have people who’d appreciate puzzles.
If your sister gets upset then that is on her. She seems to respect your younger sister’s boundaries, she seems to have stopped talking about younger sis with you when you asked her to.
posted by koahiatamadl at 2:52 AM on June 10, 2023 [11 favorites]