Please explain buying a sport jacket like I'm very bad at understanding

June 6, 2023 9:04 AM

I want to purchase a couple sport jackets and maybe a suit and I can't seem to figure this out. Challenges: men's clothes, 5'3" woman's body, I prefer to buy used.

As mentioned I am 5'3", about 170 lbs (weight varies which is another challenge but that's where I'm at right now!), large breasts, medium-small sloping shoulders, my arms are not long. I am looking for a simple light weight and medium weight sport jacket that I could likely buy off the shelf from like Banana Republic or something if I had a standard mans body, and a budget suit. I mostly want something I can throw on to dress up an outfit on date night, and something I could wear to more formal occasions, bearing in mind I am never in the extremely formal milieu.

I have read many guides online but I can't seem to successfully buy this stuff that fits. As I understand it, I should focus on shoulders fitting and get arm length altered as needed, but when the shoulders fit, the chest is usually too small.

I had a jacket made for my wedding which fit my body and was nice and fine but the cut was not exactly delightful to me. There's something nice about off the shelf because I can just look at it and see if I like it, where if I have something made I can't anticipate if I will like it.

As mentioned, for environmental reasons I prefer to buy used if possible, but am open to new. I am fine getting stuff altered after purchase. I don't want to have to read 100 blogs or instruction manuals I can't seem to understand or absorb, I want the Cliff Notes!

Any guidance welcome from specific brands, to specific listings on ebay or poshmark, to very simplified guidance on how to read measurements for success.

posted by latkes to Shopping (17 answers total)

I can't seem to successfully buy this stuff that fits

men's clothes

large breasts

Respectfully, I think you've identified the problem. Male breasts are proportioned differently relative to their shoulders and arms. If you've got large breasts for a woman, you've got extremely large breasts for a man. Men's jackets are usually not cut to fit over large breasts. Even men with "man boobs" have trouble finding jackets that fit.

You're correct about shoulder fit, although arm shortening isn't the easiest thing in the world. What I would do, if I were you, would be to find a jacket in a large chest size, but short. "Short" is a real thing that's part of a jacket measurement, just like tall is. So if your chest size is 46, look for size 46S. You could then have a tailor dart it around the waist (although if the jacket is patterned, this could look weird).

I assume there's a reason you don't just buy a women's jacket, but a women's jacket would likely fit you better and, if there's a pattern, look better.
posted by kevinbelt at 9:24 AM on June 6, 2023 [6 favorites]

Response by poster: This is helpful! I totally understand I am buying a product not made for my body, so specific ideas like look for "short" and buy for the chest size not the shoulder size are great suggestions! I just wanted to reinforce this is the kind of advice I will find helpful so keep 'em coming and thank you. (I am buying mens not women's because I prefer men's and masculine clothes and women's jackets even more masculine ones do not achieve this look unless specifically tailored for this purpose)
posted by latkes at 9:29 AM on June 6, 2023

Yeah, I think you're going to be best off starting with places that specifically make masc styles for people with breasts, like Wildfang. Bonus: there should be a pretty robust Wildfang resale market, though since it's one of those slightly culty brands the available options might move fast.
posted by babelfish at 9:30 AM on June 6, 2023 [5 favorites]

If you'd prefer a true men's style rather than one that is cut for a woman's body but tends to be more masc, I think you'd have the best luck going to a men's suit store, getting measured, and then getting jackets tailored. My husband gets his suits from the standard discount suit places, and they will usually fit the largest part of your body and then tailor accordingly. In your case, you'll probably have to fit for chest and then have the arms shortened and potentially have the shoulders taken in.

Once you have your size, it'll be easier to look for used jackets to thrift. I'd recommend finding a good tailor who can help you figure out what is/isn't worth looking for, as some fabrics are much easier to alter than others.

I know a few men who get jackets from ProperCloth - it couldn't hurt to ask them if they could do work for your body too.
posted by notjustthefish at 9:44 AM on June 6, 2023

My partner has broad shoulders and a narrow waist, and he finds that jackets that are described as "athletic" fit work best for him. It's hard to say without photos but definitely be open to the idea that a different type of cut (skinny / tailored / athletic / regular) in a large chest and short length size might work better for you. Similarly, an American suit is traditionally very boxy, an Italian suit is cut much tighter overall, and a British suit (harder to find where you are I expect) has a more defined waist. Italian sounding brands are usually cut in an Italian way regardless of where they're actually made and sold.

The other thing I'd suggest is going to a decent department store that has a lot of choice in men's suiting and try on as many styles/sizes as possible. This will help you get an eye for the kinds of compromises you are likely to be able to choose from. Even if you then use that information to check out used options.
posted by plonkee at 9:54 AM on June 6, 2023

One thing to keep in mind if you're budget conscious is that men's sportscoats are not meant to fit off the rack. They're designed to be altered by a tailor to fit the person who purchased the jacket, and that's an additional expense (sometimes as much or even more than the cost of the piece). This is particularly true for a blazer/sportscoat/suit jacket. It's possible you could find a men's sportscoat that fit over your breasts and then have the shoulders taken in, but it wouldn't be easy and would likely be pretty expensive. Alternatively, if you're looking at a vintage piece you might find a jacket sized to your shoulders that has large enough allowances (aka extra cloth) at the seams for sufficient enlargement of the breast area. This seems rather unlikely, though, especially as your height already puts you in an ill-served population for classic menswear. 5'2" men usually have to shop for suits at specialty stores. You might also consider shopping someplace that specializes in"big and tall" menswear. It's possible that they might have a jacket sized to your shoulders that's designed to fit a very overweight man, in which case the upper body area might fit your breasts and it would only need to be taken in in all the other areas. Men don't tend to put on a lot of weight in that area compared to their stomachs, which is why you'd need something designed for a very proportionally heavy man.
posted by slkinsey at 9:58 AM on June 6, 2023 [1 favorite]

Oof. This is a tough request, because men's coat sizes are based on the chest measurement around the broadest portion of the chest under the armpits, and the shoulder measurement is basically the average shoulder width for male (cisgender, AMAB) bodies with that chest size. The tailoring problem is that the fit of the shoulders is actually the most important thing because it's really hard to fix shoulders (to take shoulders in they have to detach the sleeves and remake the jacket where they were attached). Whenever I shop for a suit or sportcoat, I start with chest measurement and the knowledge I need a "tall," then check the fit of the shoulders and go up or down from there. If you find an off-the-rack coat that fits your shoulders, it probably won't have enough room in the chest; if you find a coat that fits your chest it's going to slump off your shoulders.

In addition to the "short" guidance you might be able to find something in a boys' "husky" size. There are also "athletic cut" jackets that are cut more broadly in the chest for their shoulder measurements. You could also maybe do something super-wacky like buy a double-breasted jacket that fits your shoulders and then have it tailored into a single-breasted jacket that fits your chest. That might be less involved (and less expensive) than attempting shoulder surgery, but it still won't be cheap tailoring.

As a starting place, though, measure around your chest with whatever bra (or bras) you might wear, and that will give you a better idea what chest measurement will "fit." You probably want both that number and your bra band size, really, because you may find that the "best" chest measurement for jacket shopping is somewhere between the two, assuming there's still adequate fabric at the seams for basic alteration. If I use a tape measure I have a 38" chest, but a 40" jacket in slim fit seems to work best on me based on my shoulders.

Bonus advice: unlined/unstructured jackets will be cheaper to tailor than fully-lined blazers will be, because there's less for the tailor to take apart, recut, and put back together.
posted by fedward at 10:07 AM on June 6, 2023 [2 favorites]

This is a good primer on what sorts of things a tailor can and can't do with a men's sportscoat. Bottom line, as the author writes, "shoulders are an exception to the rule; making shoulders either bigger or smaller are both not recommended as alterations. The structure of a jacket shoulder is complex enough that reshaping them involves major surgery." Something to bear in mind.
posted by slkinsey at 10:08 AM on June 6, 2023 [2 favorites]

What are you wearing it over? Have you considered some kind of men's knit coat? Speaking of Banana Republic, they've had at least one knit coat (here's this season's which IMO is not quite as nice as last winter's) every season the past couple of years. Obviously if you want something to wear over a dress shirt this won't cut it, but it would work over a regular button front or a knit.

Also, what about a shacket? My go-to for this purpose is actually a black shirt with an average non-button-down collar in a fine wool and I just wear it like a jacket. (Ralph Lauren via eBay - the wool ones are often priced high but I did eventually find one for $25.) Again, this would not work for a real, stiff-collared dress shirt, but over any kind of casual button front or knit it is pretty jackety.

Alternatively, what about some kind of chore coat? There are a lot out there and because they are not lined they are easier to have tailored. Again, this is a more casual vibe, but if you look for a wool, fine cotton or linen one in a dark color you get more of an Eisenhower jacket feel from them.

Or hey, what about a Japanese-inflected jacket? I lucked into one piece from Prospective Flow and their stuff is pretty nice. It's meant to fit in an oversized and arty way but cut for men.

I find that I need to lean a little bit workwear/arty to get structured outerwear that fits me well enough to be tailor-able.
posted by Frowner at 10:14 AM on June 6, 2023 [8 favorites]

(I add that I am a fattish ABAB person who none the less has a relatively flat chest and no hips to speak of. I wear men's pants and shirts but find tailored sportcoats such a pain as not to be worth bothering with. I am of the opinion that unless you're fairly tall, wide shouldered and bony, it's difficult to get anything that can be tailored into looking decent.)
posted by Frowner at 10:17 AM on June 6, 2023 [2 favorites]

They're designed to be altered by a tailor to fit the person who purchased the jacket

And that fit comes from the shoulders because they're not worth remaking. I think slkinsey and I are getting at the same thing here, though. When a suit or sportcoat is sold, even though there's an expectation of tailoring to fit it properly, not everything is easy or possible. Easy adjustments are things like fine tuning sleeve length (within normal range) or taking in the chest a bit. Some adjustments are slightly more complicated, like how extending sleeves as far as they will go can require sewing in extra lining (Ask Me How I Know). Or how getting rid of a lot of extra fabric in the chest can mean some reworking of part of the seams around the armpit. Or how I always have to have fabric removed behind the collar because I don't slouch the way most men do. And, finally, some tailoring is just so complicated it isn't done, like remaking shoulders.
posted by fedward at 10:23 AM on June 6, 2023 [1 favorite]

Supposedly oversized blazers (sport coats) are trending right now, so the "boyfriend's" look accommodates getting something oversized.
posted by porpoise at 11:33 AM on June 6, 2023 [1 favorite]

You can have men's jackets altered to fit well over breasts but it's non trivial and also probably quite expensive. The tailors I worked near in SF did this and the results were great but unfortunately they seem to have closed. I'd also be looking for recs for a great tailor near you. idk if it would be your style but I wonder if looking at vintage pieces would be worth your time to get a better starting fit? I'm short 5" and chunky and for women's clothes a lot of vintage pieces if I could fit them big enough were drastically better in fit for my height.
posted by oneear at 11:38 AM on June 6, 2023

At 5'3", 170 lbs, with a large bust, you may have success with big boys/youth formal wear, possibly in plus/husky sizes.

UK's More for Kids size chart for "generously-sized" junior formal wear includes chest diameter, up to 44", but you'd want to contact them for shoulder breadth & sleeve length. [Another retailer that turned up is Next, also in the UK; here are tailored-look school trousers in boys' plus, but better navigation skills than mine are needed for info on the sport jacket or blazer options.] I'm not sure where you could try on a suit jacket from More for Kids in the USA to evaluate fit, to then find the same jacket on the resale market? But they do ship overseas, accept returns, and have a sale page.

In the US, a pop-up size chart at Men's Wearhouse lists Calvin Klein Blazers, Big Boys size 18 as 39.5" chest and size 20 as 41.25" chest; 18H is 42" chest. Boys Suits and Tuxedos, Size 16, 18, 20 at Men's Wearhouse. Isaac Mizrahi, Calvin Klein, Geoffrey Beene, Van Heusen, Ralph Lauren, Izod, and other companies make a "Big Boys Husky" size (16H, 18H, 20H) in different lines, cut fuller through the chest depending on style -- though many are stretch blends. Boys' Husky Collection at American Exchange Apparel has suit jackets. Poshmark has a VH 18H blazer and lists the shoulder as 17". "LittleTuxedos.com" has a 14H jacket listed with a 41.8" chest and a 17.7" shoulder. BoysSuits.com has a Michael Kors Blazer in 22H and a Lauren Ralph Lauren Blazer in 20H. More Kors here.

JCPenney, Nordstrom/Nordstrom Rack, Macy's, or any retailer with a large "big boys/youth" section may have plus/husky jackets to try on. Then stalk eBay, Poshmark, and other resellers. In this niche market, a ton of sport coats, blazers, and formal suits are purchased for an event and soon outgrown.
posted by Iris Gambol at 3:28 PM on June 6, 2023 [6 favorites]

In this niche market, a ton of sport coats, blazers, and formal suits are purchased for an event and soon outgrown.

Ah yes, the growth spurt years. I remember them well. "What do you mean it doesn't fit? I just bought you that! Go get it and let me see!"

I realized late that we've all been throwing out numbers and perhaps insufficiently explaining them. Men's jackets (and suits) are sized, as I said, based on the chest measurement at the widest point under the armpits. In addition they tend to come in three lengths (R for regular, L for long, and S for short). If there's no letter, assume it's an R. In theory a regular length could fit a man up to 6 feet tall, but I'm 6'2" and I have needed a long since the first time my mom had to take me to the men's department, when I wasn't even done with my growth spurts. You will probably want a short, if you can find it.

If you find jackets with letter sizing, the correspondence is usually along the lines of S being a 38" chest, M 40-42", L 42-44", and XL a 46" chest. Shoulders will be proportional. Note also that the larger you go, the more leeway there will be in the sizing (a small is really just a small, but an XL has to fit a lot of different shapes and may be cut even larger than 46" would indicate).

In addition to the specified length, men's jackets now tend to come in at least two fits, regular and athletic. Athletic cut suits assume a broader chest (which would help you) and may have looser arms (which probably wouldn't). Some brands now also have a slim fit, and currently the trendy style is that everything looks too small, so a regular cut from a trendy brand may veer towards the slim sort of fit. (I was taught that a jacket should button without pinching at the waist, but people wear their jackets much tighter than that these days). That said, if you could find an athletic cut jacket from a trim fit sort of brand, it might strike the right balance for you because it already comes in a lot at the waist.

When I (a tall, thin, cisgender male) try on a jacket I look first to see if the shoulders fit: the line along the top seam of the shoulder should be straight, and there should be a crisp corner where the sleeve attaches. If the top seam droops at the edge or if there appears to be a hollow under it, the jacket is too big; if my shoulder muscles stick out farther than the attachment, it's too small. Then I (a tall man with monkey arms) check the sleeve length to figure out if it's long enough as it is, or if there's enough extra fabric in the sleeve to let it out; you probably will need to shorten your sleeves, so the issue will be if the buttons have to be removed and/or relocated in the alteration (usually this is still pretty easy, but sometimes what happens is just that you lose a button or two and they don't bother to replace them). The last thing I (a skinny man) do is button the jacket and look for a bulge of fabric inside the armpits (which happens when the jacket is cut for somebody with different proportions) or if the drape changed too much when I buttoned it. When I was performing in choirs a lot in college, I also checked what happened if I held my arms like I was holding up a folder of music. Some jackets that otherwise fit well were too tight in the back and they'd pull in the shoulders when I did that. I don't know if you plan to wear your jackets buttoned, so I'm not sure how much this matters for you.

The way men's jackets are typically built, there may not be a whole lot of extra fabric to let out the chest. This is especially true for casual jackets, which are more likely to come in letter sizing rather than based on chest measurements. Casual jackets are more likely than dress jackets to be unlined/unstructured, but there are such things as "summer suits" that are either unlined or lined only in certain spots. As I mentioned before, it's less work to tailor an unlined/unstructured jacket than it is to rip out the seams and redo all those pieces. The biggest advantage for you will be that in an unlined jacket you can see if there's any fabric to let out along the seams. The disadvantage will be that most casual jackets don't have any extra fabric.

If you're buying a suit and not just a jacket, there's a standard "drop" from the chest measurement to the waist measurement of the included trousers. When I first was faced with this shopping problem, the standard was 8" (so a 40L suit would come with trousers with a 32" waist). I think now that the population tends fatter the standard drop is 6" (in which case a 40L suit would come with 34" trousers), and athletic cut is an 8" or even 10" drop depending on the brand. Most suit trousers will be made in such a way that they can be taken in or let out by around an inch (maybe two) without losing a belt loop. Eventually many brands started selling suit separates, so instead of having your trousers altered you just buy the ones that fit you in the first place. Note, however, that trousers sold separately probably won't have as much leeway for future alterations, so if you gain or lose a lot of weight you're going to have to buy new trousers.

As far as boys' sizes go, the top end of the ranges Iris Gambol found overlaps with men's sizes, but chances are the boys' jackets will be shorter. This could work to your advantage, as could the churn caused by growth spurts and short wearing seasons. But shopping used/vintage is 100% a crapshoot anyway, so your best bet is to shop often and see if stuff pops up.

And if you decide to buy a men's shirt to go with your jacket: the two numbers are neck measurement and sleeve length (measured from the center of the seam where the collar attaches, around a bent arm, to the wrist). Shirts now tend to come in at least three size ranges (from slim/trim through regular to athletic). Your neck is easy enough to measure alone, but get a helper to measure your sleeve. Brands selling shirts with letter sizes usually have a chart somewhere saying what neck and sleeve measurements those letters are supposed to be.
posted by fedward at 5:15 PM on June 6, 2023 [3 favorites]

Also, if you like the look of a particular jacket take a picture of it even if it won't fit you. See a picture of a celebrity in a jacket you like? Save a copy to your lookbook album in your photos on your phone! Pay attention to the things you like about any given jacket, like fabric, lapels, vents, details around the sleeves, etc. If you go to a tailor with a few pictures of the style you're going for, they can make you something that delivers on that style but fits your body. When I was 19 or 20 and tall and skinny and singing in multiple college choirs, I had such trouble finding a tuxedo that fit that we had one made. I want to say it was about a 60% cost premium over an off-the-rack tuxedo, but only maybe 20% more expensive than off-the-rack once we'd paid for the necessary alterations.
posted by fedward at 5:31 PM on June 6, 2023 [1 favorite]

I suggest looking at “women’s” suits right now at stores like Zara and H&M. The current suit cut that’s in style is very boxy and “stolen from boyfriend” so you might actually like the fit of an off-the-rack “women’s” blazer this year even if you didn’t in previous years.

I think it’s great to buy used - I’m a huge clothing thrifter myself - but men’s blazers over breasts simply aren’t the item to do it with. They are super particular for fit and the tailoring cost is exorbitant. I had a boxy $200 RW& Co brand women’s suit tailored to fit me better (just getting the jacket slimmed, and pants made more curvy, still a women’s style on an AFAB body and only adjusting by about 1 dress size) and it cost $250 !!!! for the alteration. You’re better off just getting a new suit that fits you! Thrifting just ups the difficulty level so much.

I would say, buy suits new and get your T-shirts, jeans, books, cars, and shoes, etc, used instead.
posted by nouvelle-personne at 6:11 PM on June 6, 2023